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Author Topic: Fernando`s Force multiplier  (Read 128743 times)

Offline neptune

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Fernando`s Force multiplier
« on: May 03, 2012, 09:09:35 PM »
There is an interesting article on Peswiki News today about a Peruvian inventor and his claimed force multiplier. On the video the device looks fairly simple. The claim is that a one horsepower motor drives a generator which would normally need a 20 horsepower motor. No test figures are quoted, but it is claimed that his device won a bronze medal. Perhaps someone with greater skills than I, could provide a link for this .

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Fernando`s Force multiplier
« on: May 03, 2012, 09:09:35 PM »

Offline truesearch

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Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 10:15:01 PM »
@Trusearch, many thanks for that.This is my assessment of the aparratus.
 There are two parallel shafts, an input shaft and an output shaft.
 The input shaft is driven by a one horsepower motor using Vee belts, with a slight step-up ratio.
  The output shaft drives a large generator through an inline universal joint.
  There are flwheels on each shaft
  Each shaft has  an eccentric at its centre.
   Each eccentric carries an eccentric rod, projecting vertically and rigidly attached to a cross beam .
   The cross beam is mounted on springs at four points.
  Rising from the beam is a rigid vertical rod with a weight at the end of it.This rod is not at the beams centre.
      If this is real, it will chance the world. Imagine this as a transmission on your bicycle.Pedal at `100 Kilometeres per hour. Or a small wind turbine giving 20 times its normal output. And it is claimed you can cascade these devices.


The devil is in the detail, measurements can be obtained by video analysis. Apart from the eccentric assemblies, it is all off the shelf components. The text is in the Peruvian language. {related to Spanish?}
   

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 10:15:01 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 01:38:12 PM »
Having looked at the video again, I have slightly changed my mind . I stated that the upper ends of the eccentric rods [let +
us call them connecting rods, as in a car engine] were rigidly attached to the cross beam. On the video, before the motor is switched on, he tuns the output shaft to put it in the "start" position. It turns independently of the input shaft.So at least one of the connecting rods must be pivoted at its upper end where it attaches to the beam.
      I am quite surprised at the lack of interest that this device has caused, in view of its potential and simplicity. Ok, so the inventor spent at least a decade perfecting this device with a COP of 20 . But it is perhaps not so hard to achieve 10% of that initially, a cop of 2.
      Where are the simulation wizards?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 04:20:01 PM by neptune »

Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 05:02:56 PM »
Sorry for the multiple posts, but was unable to modify my last post. Having watched the video many times, I have changed my mind again , and I do not think there are pivots where the connecting rods join the beam .In fact the connecting rods do not exist . So what we have is this . we have a thick disc of metal mounted on each shaft . But it is not concentric with the shaft, it is mounted off centre[ hence an eccentric]. Surrounding each disc is a bearing [bush or roller bearing] which fits inside a plummer block. The plummer block is solidly attached to the underside of the beam .
 Further relevant facts.
 The two shafts rotate in opposite directions.
  The vertical rod which carries the weight is mounted above the input shaft, and is reinforced with a triangle of steel where it meets the beam.
 With the machine in motion , each end of the beam moves in a circular path, one end clockwise, and the other anticlockwise.
contrary to what I said earlier the beam is not mounted on springs, its weight is bourne by the eccentrics only. The weight on the rod MAY be mounted on a springy diaphragm in a frame.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:33:09 PM by neptune »

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 05:02:56 PM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 10:42:19 PM »
A similar torque amplifier / force multiplier example you can find here
http://jbpowersystems.weebly.com/index.html
with the maths !

Sincerely
                 CdL

Offline ruin41

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 01:15:46 AM »
A similar torque amplifier / force multiplier example you can find here
http://jbpowersystems.weebly.com/index.html
with the maths !

Sincerely
                 CdL
Surely the clever aplication of this one would be to put a gear rail beside the train track and use a huge gear on the generator instead of the prop and just use it to power the train while it went along thus negating the need for the power station ....hmmm thats right i remember now you cant do that or the railways would have been doing it from day one. And as far as this thread system goes the 1 horse motor would have had no problem turning the big generator if connected directly to the shaft since the only start load would be the energy needed to get the shaft in motion however it clearly had an issue starting and without the weight i bet it doesnt start at all. The weight is a counter balance that is required to get this past the coging point, but as it adds with gravety it also had to be lifted against gravety before it can add and where was the generator output ????

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 01:15:46 AM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 01:01:26 PM »
Where was the generator output. That is the one million dollar question. I am torn two ways on this. We are told that this guy won a bronze medal at the Geneva international inventions exhibition. We are told that he received help from the Peruvian government. Surely for these things to happen there would need to be clear and indisputable evidence of some very obvious energy gain.  The video we see is 90% about the inventor speaking in an obscure language, and only 10% about the actual device. We see the drive motor, we see the transmission, and we see the generator. Output is neither shown nor mentioned. The most positive spin we can put on this, is that the reporter was not a technical person. Probably some blonde bimbo, who spent most of the time asking if it was available in pink.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 02:49:26 PM »
neptune,
Mr.Ramos received the bronze medail,yes,
but you can read in some news articles that he got the prize without  his invention functionality tested/approved !

Sincerely
                 CdL

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 02:49:26 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 05:27:26 PM »
@LankaIV. Do have link to this article, or any further information, preferably in English.
@ruin41. The use of a counterweight to overcome a stick spot is not necessarily a bad thing. The energy used to lift the weight will be given back as it falls, so net energy is zero. After all we use weights on the crankshaft of a car to balance the engine, and reduce vibration


I have pretty well got this mechanism analysed now, to the extent that I could copy it . Tuning it for optimum efficiency would be necessary of course .
 
 The problem we face here is a classic overunity story.  The possibilities are as follows.


The device works as claimed.
The inventor does not know how to measure input and output
The inventor is deluded
The media was one story short on the day.


The whole thing is further complicated in that 90% of people , including reporters, Have not the faintest understanding of concepts such as power, energy, and overunity.
The big question is, what do YOU think?


Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 06:24:47 PM »
Latest thought. If this device really does what it says on the tin, we can forget motors and generators. Just couple the two shafts with a pair of gears, and give it a spin, and it will either run forever, or speed up to self destruction.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 06:24:47 PM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 11:05:59 PM »

Offline ruin41

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2012, 02:08:08 AM »
ok so if you really want to waste time testing this you could easily make it using the crank from a rotary engine cut in half, but you only have to look at it from another angle to see that it doesnt work. If there is a multification of force in one direction then there must by default be a reduction in the other its simple science and so if you look at it from the generator end there is nothing different if the motor was there and the gen at the other end so there is nothing other than a different way of transmitting the power.
Garry

Offline neptune

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2012, 05:03:04 PM »
Personally I would not waste my time and money on this. It is a sad reflection on modern education that no one seems to have asked for proof of input and output. Next year I will enter my invention of a personal levitation machine that will fly for months on the power of one AAA battery. It is bound to win a bronze medal, as no one will ask to see it actually working.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2012, 06:01:21 PM »
neptune: we do not need to waste time or money !
You have to understand this notice like all the other notices from all over the world !
Mr.Ramos invested his time and some budget to realize his imagination to solve his financial problems and probably also the energy demand in future !
But it is his life and his apparature about we are reading and discussing and if somebody of us is interested to get such a gear-system we have to help Mr. Ramos  and let him receive compensation for his long work !?

At first: if we enter the INDECOPI web-page and fill the search-field ( on the left side ) with the name of the inventor,
one response from 07-16-2011 show us that the priority date of his presentation and patent application is 05-10-2010 !

He has only national comercial rights (PE-...........) if he has not the ability to optimize technically his invention and to do a new patent request !

Sincerely
                 CdL

 

 

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