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Author Topic: Fernando`s Force multiplier  (Read 128689 times)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2012, 09:49:32 AM »

i've found a video with the replication from Ukraine
http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/09/04/мотор-эксцентрик-генератор/

...two flywheels, but no pendulum (not yet?)

this video is very short  -- screenshoots:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152070486300652.892479.280450125651&type=1


Well, Michael, does the machine in the Ukraine put more power out than is put in?

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2012, 09:49:32 AM »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2012, 04:45:01 PM »

TK

There is some information on another list by Arto that helps to understand this

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11282-awarded-machine-multiply-force-motor-free-energy-4.html


The page four graphics.  I started to post over there and then the list went dead... but has come back with Arto's posts. However It is beyond my ability to post a picture over there so put them up here, glad you guys have found it already.

OK, this was just a run to see if it would run. I find out that I need more weight in my flywheels, so  will look for a little heavier brake rotors, not a problem as they throw them out by the ton.

Ron



Hi All,


Observations to date. The speed up and slow down forces are very intense. A freewheel clutch had been proposed but I don't think this is the answer. The answer has already been done by Terawatt with their 'oscillating coupling'


http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/


Here we have what amounts to an impulse drive with the output smoothed and enhanced with this coupling. The same thing could be done with Fernando Ramos's device that would turn it into a smooth runner.

(just guessing)

Ron


Edit: the coupling is magnetic with opposing poles, sort of like an automotive clutch plate with its little springs...

« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:12:02 AM by i_ron »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2012, 09:42:16 PM »
Heh... my brain is so numb these days that I had to build a small model to see what effects varying the throws and the conrod length would have. Of course the rotation rates are affected. I've even found one configuration where the drive wheel turns continuously and at constant speed in one direction and the driven wheel goes back and forth at varying speeds. But for smooth motion in the same direction the crank throws have to be equal.

Hi I-Ron and TK

I've been very interested in this device since it came out but have yet to find the time to build a test unit. So great one I-Ron on your replication.
Glad TK is thinking about this one.

Here's an interesting video (sorry if it's posted already): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fslf98aw7E&feature=related

I'll be keeping an eye on this topic for sure

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2012, 09:42:16 PM »
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Offline penno64

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2012, 10:20:41 PM »
Hi Luc,
 
What a great and easy to understand explination and demonstration by Ray.
 
Good find.
 
Penno

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2012, 01:01:40 AM »
Hi I-Ron and TK

I've been very interested in this device since it came out but have yet to find the time to build a test unit. So great one I-Ron on your replication.
Glad TK is thinking about this one.

Here's an interesting video (sorry if it's posted already): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fslf98aw7E&feature=related

I'll be keeping an eye on this topic for sure

Thanks for sharing

Luc




Thanks Luc. Just trying to keep up to the high standard you have set!


Incidentally here is one from Ukraine


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8aQCfhGoCU&feature=plcp


Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2012, 01:01:40 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2012, 02:00:24 AM »
Hi Ron,

Excellent craftsmanship.

How much force vertically is that bar generating? or can hold?

The reason I ask is what if you mount a long linear moving gear track to the bar with weights at each end, run it at low speed so it doesn't blow apart and have a gen with a gear that is fixed to the same plane as the gear track. Use the oscillating motion to rock the gear track with added weights back and forth driving the geared generator. The speed would be determined by the length of track, angle and weight/load attached. Just an idea.

Hi Luc,

Thank you for Raymond's video. Now I can finally understand the push/pull effect.  ;)

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2012, 03:08:50 AM »
Hi Ron,

Excellent craftsmanship.

How much force vertically is that bar generating? or can hold?

The reason I ask is what if you mount a long linear moving gear track to the bar with weights at each end, run it at low speed so it doesn't blow apart and have a gen with a gear that is fixed to the same plane as the gear track. Use the oscillating motion to rock the gear track with added weights back and forth driving the geared generator. The speed would be determined by the length of track, angle and weight/load attached. Just an idea.





Thank you!


However I think the idea would be rather hard to implement...not only that, maybe even the wrong place to try to get work out?


Ron







Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2012, 03:08:50 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2012, 07:31:35 PM »



Thanks Luc. Just trying to keep up to the high standard you have set!


Incidentally here is one from Ukraine


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8aQCfhGoCU&feature=plcp


Ron

Hi Ron,

thanks for your reply and positive comment

I did see that Ukraine video but could not find any other details as far as if they were able to see an effect

Looking forward in your research results

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2012, 01:32:46 AM »
Hi Ron,

Looking forward in your research results


Luc


Hi Luc,


Well I was being quiet as I didn't find the holy grail. So I am on hold in hopes someone gets a positive result.


I thought the difference between having both shafts turning CW and the shafts turning CW/CCW
would be a proof of gain. Not found, With a 300mm proof bar and a spring scale indicating 1 Kg in each case, the CW case drew 2 amps while the shafts rotating in opposite directions drew 2.32 amps. This is with the shafts 280mm apart and an eccentric of 12mm, (1 inch total) and 290mm, 4.35 Kg flywheels.


Perhaps weights and dimensions are critical?


Regards, Ron






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2012, 01:32:46 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2012, 09:09:20 PM »

Hi Luc,


Well I was being quiet as I didn't find the holy grail. So I am on hold in hopes someone gets a positive result.


I thought the difference between having both shafts turning CW and the shafts turning CW/CCW
would be a proof of gain. Not found, With a 300mm proof bar and a spring scale indicating 1 Kg in each case, the CW case drew 2 amps while the shafts rotating in opposite directions drew 2.32 amps. This is with the shafts 280mm apart and an eccentric of 12mm, (1 inch total) and 290mm, 4.35 Kg flywheels.


Perhaps weights and dimensions are critical?


Regards, Ron

Hi Ron,

thanks for the reply and update.

I looked at all the videos in slow motion and I'm quite sure that both flywheels turn in the same direction. However, there is a start where the generator flywheel started turning in the opposite direction but they soon shut it down. So for sure they are able to turn in opposite directions. There's also footage where they line up the flywheels before they start the prime mover and I guess it so they can go in the right direction.

Question: when you turn by hand do your flywheels each alternate the faster motion for a portion of the turn like Raymond's video demo I posted above?

Perhaps there's a specific RPM for each build where Resonance may kick in?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2012, 01:02:30 AM »
Ron what about the lever? did you try a lever?


Did you mean the "inverted pendulum"? or "flag" as I call it...yes I did, merely increased the draw


Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2012, 01:02:30 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2012, 01:11:10 AM »
Hi Ron,

thanks for the reply and update.

I looked at all the videos in slow motion and I'm quite sure that both flywheels turn in the same direction. However, there is a start where the generator flywheel started turning in the opposite direction but they soon shut it down. So for sure they are able to turn in opposite directions. There's also footage where they line up the flywheels before they start the prime mover and I guess it so they can go in the right direction.

Question: when you turn by hand do your flywheels each alternate the faster motion for a portion of the turn like Raymond's video demo I posted above?

Perhaps there's a specific RPM for each build where Resonance may kick in?

Thanks for sharing

Luc


Hi Luc,


You only get the bobbing action if the flywheels are turning in opposite directions. If you watch the flag in the videos you see it rising and falling as in Arto's graphics.


In the video you posted he has the eccentric radius very exaggerated, so it is easier to see than at a small radius...but it is there. Trouble is it hammers and beats itself to death.


Ron




Offline gotoluc

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2012, 03:55:43 AM »
Thanks for the reply and information Ron.

Do you have a way to vary the speed of the prime mover to observe if any changes occur with that variable?

Thanks for your time and sharing your experiment results

Luc

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2012, 04:27:34 PM »
Thanks for the reply and information Ron.

Do you have a way to vary the speed of the prime mover to observe if any changes occur with that variable?

Thanks for your time and sharing your experiment results

Luc


G'day Luc,



Funny you should mention that as Honza brought that to my attention this AM... he says if you look at the Terawatt chart you will see that this is very much RPM dependent ...all too true as I was running way too slow at 380 RPM. Unfortunately my build was too punny and literally destroyed itself on its last run. Anyway Fernando was probably running a 1600 RPM (50 Hz?) motor. belted up to 2000 RPM?


Ron


Edit: just for interests sake... note that with the generator direct coupled it is also acting as part of the flywheel for the second shaft. In the JPG of Fernando behind the machine you cab see the second flywheel is smaller than the first one, note also the extensions to the link on each side

UL Terawatt data for comparison:






Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2012, 05:13:46 PM »


G'day Luc,



Funny you should mention that as Honza brought that to my attention this AM... he says if you look at the Terawatt chart you will see that this is very much RPM dependent ...all too true as I was running way too slow at 380 RPM. Unfortunately my build was too punny and literally destroyed itself on its last run. Anyway Fernando was probably running a 1600 RPM (50 Hz?) motor. belted up to 2000 RPM?


Ron


Edit: just for interests sake... note that with the generator direct coupled it is also acting as part of the flywheel for the second shaft. In the JPG of Fernando behind the machine you cab see the second flywheel is smaller than the first one, note also the extensions to the link on each side


edit 3: sorry the smaller flywheels on shaft two are better seen in this jpg
edit 4 sorry for the double post! brain not in gear

UL Terawatt data for comparison:

« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 01:11:35 AM by i_ron »

 

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