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Author Topic: Fernando`s Force multiplier  (Read 129084 times)

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2012, 10:06:44 PM »
Nice workshop, I'm jealous. I especially like the meter shelf, and the clips to hold the bags in the wastebaskets.
Is that a real Kennedy tool chest, or one of the cheap Harbor Freight knockoffs? (I have one of each; the Kennedy is nicer of course, as it ought to be, at four times the price.)

With the setup you've got it will be easy to do comparison testing. You can simply remove your connecting rod and short crankthrows from the backside and put 1-to-1 pulleys and a connecting belt between the wheels (brake disks?) on the front side, and then compare outputs of that simple control system, to the outputs of the full, con-rod connected system.

ETA: Are the short crankthrows the same length (radius, arm, whatever you want to call it) on both wheels? If they are the same, then a 1-1 pulley arrangement might be a good comparison test. If they are different, this makes the action different than a belt-and-pulley arrangement, because even though the speeds are different the wheels will still make 1-1 rotations, whereas with a belt and different sized pulleys they won't.


Hi TK, good observations, lol,


yes, both crank throws are the same length.

And yes, lots of testing coming up


Yup, Genuine Kennedy kit, old style


Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2012, 10:06:44 PM »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2012, 10:09:13 PM »
@Ron:

Is it correct, you will connect a dynamo (generator) to the second yellow wheel ? And then one hopes that the generator produces more power than was used to drive the electric motor (connected to the first yellow wheel) ?

This is probably a pretty dumb question. I just want to be sure that I understand the whole concept correctly.

Any way, I am impressed by the size of the machine and the craftsmanship!

Greetings, Conrad


Thank you Conrad! yes that is correct.


Ron




Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2012, 10:10:43 PM »
@TK and Ron: Another question concerning the (alleged) functioning of this device.

The device should have a greater output in case one puts some weights on the bars connecting the yellow wheels?

Greetings, Conrad


Correct again, although this has yet to be proven out


Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2012, 10:10:43 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2012, 10:19:45 PM »
I dunno, I've just started thinking about this system, and I've confused myself already. Let me have another cup of coffee and see what percolates.


TK


There is some information on another list by Arto that helps to understand this


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11282-awarded-machine-multiply-force-motor-free-energy-4.html


The page four graphics.  I started to post over there and then the list went dead... but has come back with Arto's posts. However It is beyond my ability to post a picture over there so put them up here, glad you guys have found it already.


OK, this was just a run to see if it would run. I find out that I need more weight in my flywheels, so  will look for a little heavier brake rotors, not a problem as they throw them out by the ton.


Ron




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2012, 10:59:03 PM »
Heh... my brain is so numb these days that I had to build a small model to see what effects varying the throws and the conrod length would have. Of course the rotation rates are affected. I've even found one configuration where the drive wheel turns continuously and at constant speed in one direction and the driven wheel goes back and forth at varying speeds. But for smooth motion in the same direction the crank throws have to be equal.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2012, 10:59:03 PM »
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Offline gadgetmall

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2012, 11:49:48 PM »
Personally I would not waste my time and money on this. It is a sad reflection on modern education that no one seems to have asked for proof of input and output. Next year I will enter my invention of a personal levitation machine that will fly for months on the power of one AAA battery. It is bound to win a bronze medal, as no one will ask to see it actually working.{/quote]

Not if i beat you to it:) And know know Science says the cave men built Puma Punka .With Copper Chisels and stone hammers.

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2012, 04:37:51 PM »
  Personally I would not waste my time and money on this. It is a sad reflection on modern education that no one seems to have asked for proof of input and output. Next year I will enter my invention of a personal levitation machine that will fly for months on the [/size][color=rgb(0, 0, 255) !important]power[/color] of one AAA[/size][color=rgb(0, 0, 255) !important]battery[/color]. It is bound to win a bronze medal, as no one will ask to see it actually working.[/size]





This is a work in progress, posted here for intelligent people to share and ponder.


Ron




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2012, 04:37:51 PM »
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Offline gadgetmall

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2012, 05:12:17 PM »
Hello i-rom that is a nice machine you got there . It reminds me of another build that used magnets to couple the rotors from the prime mover .

Thanks and good luck. If this works then it might be a great addition to my solar and wind power system using a grid tie.

BTW.. that was not my quote: :it was neptunes

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2012, 04:48:44 PM »




With permission from Arto, here are two JPG's which help to understand Fernando's multiplier:


Quote:



 Here is a breakdown of what is really happening(refer diagram), as you can see the velocity increases and decreases as the 2nd wheel turns. [/size] snip The upward arm is an resonant device that allows the impulse force to be added to the 2nd wheel at the time when the velocity decreases thus maintaining an increase in the rotational momentum of the external flywheel. Adding more wheels will multiply this action many fold. This arm could be placed at different parts of the system, as long as it is functional as a resonator.  snip Many thanks Regards Arto
 
 Second jpg:
 
 Here is another addition to the Sixto design, I would not build it as per my picture, it is the exaggeration of the offset that helps you see the real situation.  I hope that my efforts will help to make the Sixtos machine a everyday reality. I like UFOPolitics efforts in showing the asymmetrical nature of motor design, the combination of both types of asymmetry could make some very interesting engineering. I have been working on similar lines in one of my chapters from my book.  If you look at the impulse in the time domain, it is a 1/4 wave system. In the distance domain it is a impulse wave. I will be working on the complete transformations and equivalence to the electrical equations in the near future.  Thank you very much for your support, Regards Arto




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2012, 04:48:44 PM »
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Offline Honza

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 10:15:49 AM »
Hi all,
I am new here. My regards to i_ron for his great work on the multiplier. I am playing already sometime with a concept on similar theme to that of  Fernado Sixto Ramos - so replication of his work is obviously of great importance to me.
I_ron, you've done great job in analyzing and building the unit. However, please do not underestimate the forces involved in the transfer of power from one wheel to another. The speed of both wheels fluctuates within constant % of their average speed. The speed fluctuation % is alternating between the wheels, it is proportional to the size of the crank (which has to be identical for both wheels) and it is inversely proportional to the distance between the wheels. The speed fluctuation % remains constant at any given speed. Therefore the energy transferred by the connecting arm (and the forces involved) are increasing exponentially to the average speed of rotation.
I_ron, after watching the video of your design I feel your connecting arm is the weakest point of your unit.
Also worth noting there is a Colombian inventor who produces units on similar theme. His name is Carlos Ucros and his design does much the same using different configuration only doing it slower and using greater masses.  His English is much worse than mine but the pictures on his site tell the story.            http://www.ucros-energy.es.tl/ENGLISH-.htm
He claims ~ 5 times power multiplication.
So from my contemplating of this revolving energy theme it appears that the multiplying factor will rise most with the speed. A design with higher speed, smaller masses, closer together, smaller crank, shorter and stronger arm and bearings is likely to deliver best performance, however also be technically most challenging and less durable.
Cheers

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »
@Honza:

Fife times over unity (or even two times OU) would allow a closed loop operation. So, the only true test of such a "force multiplier" would be a free running system which is somehow looped back on itself. During start up one could use electricity from the 220V grid for a few minutes, and during run time I would accept a huge capacitor or a small battery for buffering.

Why are we not seeing such a looped back system? Neither Fernando nor Ucros show a closed loop system.

I hope that i_ron and you will one day show conclusive measurements on a real system.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2012, 05:02:07 PM »
Hi all,
I am new here. My regards to i_ron for his great work on the multiplier. I am playing already sometime with a concept on similar theme to that of  Fernado Sixto Ramos - so replication of his work is obviously of great importance to me.
I_ron, you've done great job in analyzing and building the unit. However, please do not underestimate the forces involved in the transfer of power from one wheel to another. The speed of both wheels fluctuates within constant % of their average speed. The speed fluctuation % is alternating between the wheels, it is proportional to the size of the crank (which has to be identical for both wheels) and it is inversely proportional to the distance between the wheels. The speed fluctuation % remains constant at any given speed. Therefore the energy transferred by the connecting arm (and the forces involved) are increasing exponentially to the average speed of rotation.
I_ron, after watching the video of your design I feel your connecting arm is the weakest point of your unit.
Also worth noting there is a Colombian inventor who produces units on similar theme. His name is Carlos Ucros and his design does much the same using different configuration only doing it slower and using greater masses.  His English is much worse than mine but the pictures on his site tell the story.            http://www.ucros-energy.es.tl/ENGLISH-.htm
He claims ~ 5 times power multiplication.
So from my contemplating of this revolving energy theme it appears that the multiplying factor will rise most with the speed. A design with higher speed, smaller masses, closer together, smaller crank, shorter and stronger arm and bearings is likely to deliver best performance, however also be technically most challenging and less durable.
Cheers




Thank you Honza for the very interesting post. Yes, I am aware of the forces involved and my observations confirm what you say.


Thanks also for the Ucros link, very fascinating. I will study that more.


I come to this from work with Veljko Milkovic's pendulum and a study of Felix Wurth and George Constantinesco. There is much to learn. Please feel free to post lots more on this subject.
You are on the right track.


Yesterday I put another plate on the flywheels for additional weight and to day I will rework the link as the center to center distance must be very precise. It was 'close' but hammered at low speed. I will make it with a micrometer adjustment. My limitation on this build is my inability to cut keyways in the hubs so run time is of necessity rather short.


Thanks, Ron




Offline Honza

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2012, 09:23:31 PM »
Quote
Why are we not seeing such a looped back system? Neither Fernando nor Ucros show a closed loop system.
Close loop is most likely not always possible. Bedini systems clearly prove overunity possible, but to make it work one needs two batteries - while one is charging the second powers the system.
Apart from this there can also be "political" reasons. Blatant proof could not only have the power to put in doubt the current western religion called "science" but also have the potential to destabilise worldwide economy and geopolitical system of power. After considering the recent historical record of bright inventors who had insufficient respected for the power-game, one  may not be keen on sticking it up to the face of the current establishment. ;)

Offline i_ron

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2012, 03:19:22 AM »
Hi all,snip
Also worth noting there is a Colombian inventor who produces units on similar theme. His name is Carlos Ucros and his design does much the same using different configuration only doing it slower and using greater masses.  His English is much worse than mine but the pictures on his site tell the story.            http://www.ucros-energy.es.tl/ENGLISH-.htm
He claims ~ 5 times power multiplication.

Cheers


Honza,


Well I looked at his site but pretty well a dead loss with the poor drawings and tiny print. Nothing is given away as to what or how he is doing this, pity as there may be something worth while here. Seems much like he wanted to sell kits?  But the weight would be prohibitive.


Have you seen one or have any further information?


Thanks, Ron


Offline majkl

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Re: Fernando`s Force multiplier
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2012, 01:53:11 AM »


hi


i've found a video with the replication from Ukraine
http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2012/09/04/мотор-эксцентрик-генератор/


...two flywheels, but no pendulum (not yet?)


this video is very short  -- screenshoots:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152070486300652.892479.280450125651&type=1


best regards
--michael

 

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