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Author Topic: Joule Ringer!  (Read 834664 times)

Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #270 on: March 01, 2011, 07:34:07 AM »
Naudin's experiments seem to indicate , that in a pulsed DC setup (200hz - 10khz or so) fed to a monofilar wound toroid... that with input to a partially saturated toroid, *only* in the presence of a magnet, can induce a rather powerful impulse during toroid core demagnetization, strong enough to light lamps via nearby collector coils.

There have been multiple succesful replications of Naudin's work.  No one has claimed OU, although Naudin's phenomenon is certainly strange. OU may be possible if the square-wave discharge impulses are recaptured somehow, because the secondary is apparently independent, because it is fully EM decoupled.  Or so Naudin claims.

That said, from what I can tell, Naudin is using cores with permeabilities of
u=6000
to
u=90000

The other dissimilarity with Joule Thief are the input and output waveforms, but the other parts were to just too close for me not to bring up the subject.

Glad to hear you've tried saturating the core with magnets...  I think the trick may be high-permeability cores with partial magnetic saturation under sharp-gradient pulsed-DC conditions, but it will be a few weeks until I get all my parts in.

Just figured I'd drop the idea since ya'll are already bringing in the Tesla-style spark gaps, haha.

Good luck!
-Feynman

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Pirate88179

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #271 on: March 01, 2011, 07:42:08 AM »
The large 3 3/8" toroids used in the Jeanna circuit were 10,000 on the perm ratings, for whatever that is worth.  But, they were not bifilar but had 3 separate coils wound on them.

Hey, to me, all of this is related in some way or another.

Bill
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Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #272 on: March 02, 2011, 12:57:54 AM »
I posted regarding the relationships between these various experimental OU devices at OUResearch:

----
Joule Ringer:

LaserSaber, from overunity.com, is to my knowledge the first to run a Joule Thief off purely a capacitor without a battery.  He uses the resonance to light CFLs for 5mins at a time and up.  From my understanding, he is also using some extra coils /transformer pulled out of a disposable camera flashbulp power supply.   This modified circuit (and it's derivatives) are known as 'Joule Ringers'.

... continued on ...

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.msg11510#msg11510
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Pirate88179

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #273 on: March 02, 2011, 04:01:22 AM »
Quote from: Feynman on March 02, 2011, 12:57:54 AM
I posted regarding the relationships between these various experimental OU devices at OUResearch:

----
Joule Ringer:

LaserSaber, from overunity.com, is to my knowledge the first to run a Joule Thief off purely a capacitor without a battery.  He uses the resonance to light CFLs for 5mins at a time and up.  From my understanding, he is also using some extra coils /transformer pulled out of a disposable camera flashbulp power supply.   This modified circuit (and it's derivatives) are known as 'Joule Ringers'.

... continued on ...

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.msg11510#msg11510


Well, I ran a JT circuit from a supercap back in 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWNGUJdQACU

Over 2 years ago for whatever that is worth. This was posted at that time on the JT topic.  Don't believe everything you read over at OUR.  Some of those guys over there do not understand the JT circuit at all.

Having said that, Laser has done some incredible work and he has my total respect and admiration.

Bill
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Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #274 on: March 02, 2011, 09:32:33 AM »
Okay I will modify the article when I post to my blog to give you credit .  I've been away from this scene for a couple of years , so I'm not up on the details. 

I just wrote some wave heterodyning modeling software in PureData though, it's pretty amazing.
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Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #275 on: March 04, 2011, 06:28:10 AM »
Preliminary measurements may indicate Joule Thief has COP>1.  (COP = 1.08 to 1.4 somewhere).   Results pending community assessment and further confirmation.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=717.msg11577#msg11577
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lanenal

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #276 on: March 07, 2011, 02:09:31 PM »
Quote from: lanenal on February 24, 2011, 10:04:51 AM
It might be of interest to replicators to make it as simple as possible, I would like to post a 2-coil schematic. Basically, the trigger coil and the power coil are replaced by one coil that actually performs both functionality.

lanenal

Edit: some comments are in order.

1. The number of turns are not specified, you may try 100:100 bifiler on a toroid or something, as a starting point, then increase the turns on the right side (with the CFL).

2. If the voltage is not high enough to lit the CFL, you can try put a magnet near the core (this idea comes from slayer who discovered huge voltage increase when a magnet is nearby a big joule thief.

3. The idea implemented in the Kickback Joule Ringer (a few posts before) to kickback the energy stored in the driving coil can be incorporated into this one almost as is.

While we are waiting lasersaber, I am stretching my legs and get myself ready by playing with the joule thief kind of thing, but reversed somehow (the post above has its joule ringer correspondence with circuit attached). And it worked just as I have expected! Tomorrow I will see how long a cap will run that thingy. See below for a comparison of the traditional JT and this reversed JT.

Note that when the LED is on, the battery is getting recharged -- that's the major difference.

lanenal
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Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #277 on: March 07, 2011, 08:19:05 PM »
Okay, so further tests indicate the COP>1 operation possibly accomplished by PhysicsProf, if the evidence holds and the circuit is replicable, probably does not apply to all Joule Thieves.

The vast majority of Joule Thieves, at least with conventional JT circuits, are probably in the range of 60%-90% efficiency.  The way to determine this is to integrate the area under the Power_in vs the Power_out curve for a unit of time (t), where COP=Power_out / Power_in, and then average this value over long periods of time.

COP Measurement in JT:
Lanenal has determined an excellent method of measurement of JT circuits for Power_in vs Power_Out by dividing the circuit into sections.   Lanenal's measurement methods can be found here:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=717.msg11528#msg11528

Most of PhysicsProfs JT circuits were COP<1.   He has found one which is apparently overunity.

PhysicsProf's COP=1.13 Performance may be due to PHASE issues in Joule Thief
PhysicsProf, the individual who managed COP=1.13 performance in a JT, could originally not replicate his overunity COP>1 setup.  Most Joule Theives he tested produced COP<1, with COP around 0.6-0.9.

PhysicsProf's abnormal Joule Thief which appeared to produce COP>1 had different phase relationship to itself!  The circuit's phase was strange.  The abnormal scope shots are attached.

Upon discussion, he has managed to replicate the original waveform with a COP around 1.0 by replacing the JT LED with a 1K variable resistor.  Tuning this variable resistor reproduces the abnormal phase issues, but not the exact COP>1 waveform, on the scope. 

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=717.msg11707#msg11707

So these JT phase issues are promising, but need replication.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 03:09:23 AM by Feynman »
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ramset

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #278 on: March 07, 2011, 10:25:49 PM »
Feynman
You have to resize the images,Or we have to walk back and forth to read this.

Thanks
Chet
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Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #279 on: March 08, 2011, 03:09:49 AM »
Okay, got it
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Munetaka

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #280 on: March 08, 2011, 09:26:27 PM »
Laser Saber or anyone:

What function does the bifilar coil in the joule thief ringing circuit? could you explain to me please?
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Feynman

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #281 on: March 09, 2011, 04:07:46 AM »
That's a good question; I don't know.  Build one and try it out!

I think PhysicsProf's version of JouleRinger had a lower COP (0.60 or 0.70 or so), but I think it really depends on your setup.  There may be a COP>1 possibility.
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aaron5120

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Re: hand wound coil of Lasersaber's Joule Ringer
« Reply #282 on: March 09, 2011, 06:49:16 AM »
Quote from: lasersaber on January 24, 2011, 01:09:31 PM
my latest work has been in winding my own large E core transformer from scratch.  It's huge, took forever to wind and was worth every once of effort.  If anybody thought my last Joule Ringer videos were cool just wait until see the next update.
Lasersaber
Hi Lasersaber,
I had wound two transformers with the E core recommended by Lasersaber, bought from surplussales.com but neither of them worked.
The circuit just does not want to oscillate. Lasersaber if you are hanging around here please give us a hand!
How much turns and at what gauges should the primary, trigger and secondary coils be wounded? Should they be winded clockwise or counterclockwise?
I use 2N5551 and 2SC5525 to form a Darlington pair, tried also TIP3055, none of them worked with the E core transformer. Please just tell us the wire info, we can live without your DIY video at the moment!
Thanks!
aaron5120
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lanenal

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #283 on: March 10, 2011, 12:26:24 AM »
Quote from: lanenal on March 07, 2011, 02:09:31 PM
...
And it worked just as I have expected! Tomorrow I will see how long a cap will run that thingy. See below for a comparison of the traditional JT and this reversed JT.

Note that when the LED is on, the battery is getting recharged -- that's the major difference.

Well, I used a cap (1000uF, 16V) instead of a bat, and it does not seem to work -- the LED won't lit for any discernible moment.  This result is disappointing, which makes lasersaber's discovery even more interesting...looking forward to replicating his ringer.

I suspect that there is very high frequency oscillation between the bifiler (probably functioning as a tiny capacitor) and the high voltage coil.

@lasersaber: Could you use a multimeter to measure the capacitance of your bifiler (just disconnect the 4M pot and measure the two ends where you disconnected the pot)? That should be very helpful. Thanks in advance!
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poynt99

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #284 on: March 10, 2011, 04:25:07 AM »
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 02, 2011, 04:01:22 AM
Don't believe everything you read over at OUR.  Some of those guys over there do not understand the JT circuit at all.

Bill

That may be true Bill, and I may be one of them. Does anyone here understand the JT circuit and how it works?

At OUR, I've blown away the misconception that a JT functions by way of a saturated core, and I've spent a number of hours working on the problem of "how it actually works", but I've not yet come to a complete answer.

I'd be grateful if someone here could enlighten me.

Thanks,
.99
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