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Author Topic: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap  (Read 140433 times)

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2013, 06:56:59 PM »
@Farmhand: I was just thinking, how can one adjust the ON-time with Reed switch? To everybody, any ideas? Iron shield (slit)?

@Wattsup: I will try the Reed switch in the middle of the coils as you suggested.

I tried a diode at the capacitor (both directions, both sides of the capacitor). But it did nothing once the battery or power supply was disconnected.
I tried with this schematics http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg361768/#msg361768

Will be back on Monday.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi Conrad, Gyula and Tinsel give good advice there about the reeds, however I always find that the most reliable, flexible and convenient way is to just get a good of a signal as possible from the reed or "other trigger" (and make it "the trigger" so it can be moved), then I process the signal so I can get whatever pulse width I want as well as change from a 5 volt logic signal to 10 or 12 volts signals ect.

Planning and making the small board takes some time but once you have it it can be used for many things, ie, with my CD4047 circuit I can get retriggering, manual pulse width control blanking pulses for shutdown ect.. One small circuit I use to clean up the sensor signal and make two signals from it, an inverted and a non inverted signal, then another small circuit takes whichever of those signals I use and processes it into a pulse width adjusted signal for the mosfet driver chip, the mosfets are on that board as well, for low frequency one driver chip can drive multiple mosfets ( the sensor could be any type, hall, reed, optical interrupter or photo reflector ect.).  with a small addition to the board, it could use the complimentary outputs from the CD4047 chip for a two phase output but I use the "osc out" pin (not the complimentary outputs), because the complimentary outputs are half frequency.  Alternatively the the processed pulse could be put through a flip flop circuit which can send each second pulse to a different switch for a second switching phase in "anti phase" to the first, like a push pull type inverter output but alternating rectangle shape pulses, ( for either AC purposes or just a second 180 degree phase.) I'll add that when I need it.

I have the flip flop circuit drawing somewhere, but all these small circuits plug together or are on the same board and can couple with microprocessors for some automation, very useful boards because with adjustments for frequency and using the diode trick I can get very narrow pulse widths ect. I recommend the "CMOS Cookbook" by Don Lancaster.

At the moment for my motor I use 5 mosfets, 2 IC's, 4 mosfet driver chips, a picaxe micro and there are three indicator LED's, all up the control circuitry uses about 50 mA or so from the 12 volt battery supply, the motor can run spinning the 580 gram rotor  at over 1000 rpm, with about 150 mA from the 12 volt battery.

I've got some very good efficiency to show soon, with my motor running a fan blade with better efficiency and pushing more air (bigger fan and faster) than a bought 18 Watt fan in good condition of similar size that is fairly efficient, while at the same time my motor can light 30 x 5 mm LEDs from generator coils and charge a battery with released inductive energy which I am now putting into a big cap and switching through the load, be it battery or whatever, this can produce pulsations of over 2.5 amperes and all with only 15 Watts input or so. The motor can use up to 40 Watts no problems for other loads.

Everything is working well and there is no heat to speak of in any part of the circuit even after many hours of continuous use.

I would take the time to build a hardware signal processing board, using hardware signal processing is faster than micro processing signals with software involved.

I think I linked the two circuits before, but here again, these circuits are not perfect and could use customizing for individual needs, there should be many who can assist anyone with improvements.

Almost all of my circuits could be miniaturized and improved, but the principal works. Using these kinds of signal processing the mosfets have no choice but to turn on and off properly which greatly improves the performance efficiency wise. Number one priority when using transistors as switches is that they must turn on and off quickly and cleanly so as not to spray energy during slow transitions.

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2013, 08:34:23 PM »

....
Im still bungled by the diode in series with the coil, reed and cap.
....

Hi Mags,

Just my speculation,  perhaps Lasersaber buried one more reed and one more diode in the motor structure, then using the schematic in the link (very first post by Lanenal) the capacitor charging from the flyback pulses becomes possible:
http://www.overunity.com/5446/a-self-charging-adams-motor/msg123037/#msg123037   
Of course, careful adjustments for the reeds are needed to insure their simultanous switch ON or OFF operation, not an impossible task.  In the schematic a double reed is mentioned and I know Lasersaber referred to single reed type (SPST) as a substitute for his older reed type used.  Obviously a double reed can be substituted with two single reeds.

Hopefully he will reveal his schematic used, sooner or later.

Gyula


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2013, 12:06:51 AM »
I thought I had already posted the fact that a reed switch can be "tuned" by using a small fixed magnet on the opposite side of the switch from the moving triggering magnets. You can get almost complete control over the duty cycle of a reed switch by carefully choosing and moving this bias magnet until you get the reed performance you need. Also, putting a small ceramic cap directly across the reed as close as possible to the switch will help to preserve your switch contacts and doesn't cost anything (much) energetically.

The cap in Lasersaber's video is marked 10K 100. A poly film cap of that size cannot possibly be 10 microFarads. Looking on the internet for capacitor marking codes, I find that the "K" means thousands of picofarads. So 10K means 10 thousand picofarads, or 10 nanoFarads, or 0.01 microFarads.
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/tutorials/capacitors.shtml

The energy stored in a 0.01 uF cap at 100 volts is (0.00000001)x(100)x(100)/2 Joules == not very much, 0.00005 Joules. From previous experience with jewelled pivot bearings and magnet rotors, I'll estimate that the power dissipation of that little rotor at the speeds we are seeing is on the order of only a couple of milliWatts. Maybe even less, hundreds of microWatts perhaps. Or even less.... since the cap seems to be able to accelerate the rotor from slow, and keep it running for tens of seconds.
It would be nice to see some instrumental data. The rotor could be spun up to a known RPM then allowed to run down, unpowered, and carefully timed. The average of a dozen such runs to the same RPM would be a number that could be relied upon. The rotational Moment of Inertia of the rotor can be easily calculated if the weights of the components are known. This value along with the RPM will give the energy stored in rotation, and the average rundown time will then give an average power dissipation value over that RPM range. Then the testing with the cap could commence. Use the air blast to run the rotor to a known RPM again with the cap switched out of the circuit. Then switch in the cap and time the rundown time. The difference in the powered vs unpowered rundowns will allow you to see how efficient the capacitor really is, whether the system is putting any energy back into the cap while it's running down, and will allow you to determine whether or not any further mods help or hurt.

"The cap in Lasersaber's video is marked 10K 100. A poly film cap of that size cannot possibly be 10 microFarads."

hmm, your gunna have to recheck that. I have 3 caps in front of me, one a white box plastic and 2 blue drop caps, the blues say 4.7k and 22k both 100v and the white says 8,2k 100v and they read as uf respectively.

So you might want to redo those calculations. ;D

Mags

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2013, 12:13:13 AM »
Hi Mags,

Just my speculation,  perhaps Lasersaber buried one more reed and one more diode in the motor structure, then using the schematic in the link (very first post by Lanenal) the capacitor charging from the flyback pulses becomes possible:
http://www.overunity.com/5446/a-self-charging-adams-motor/msg123037/#msg123037   
Of course, careful adjustments for the reeds are needed to insure their simultanous switch ON or OFF operation, not an impossible task.  In the schematic a double reed is mentioned and I know Lasersaber referred to single reed type (SPST) as a substitute for his older reed type used.  Obviously a double reed can be substituted with two single reeds.

Hopefully he will reveal his schematic used, sooner or later.

Gyula

Hi Gyula, If you take away the supply from the battery to the coils in this setup of mine but leave the switching circuit for the motor switches running, then spin the rotor it generates electricity, then switches it through the motor coils producing an inductive return back to the supply line.  :) Or through a battery if desired. It works as a generator and coil shorter/motor if the rotor is spun. If already running it takes a long time to run down and stop if the switches are kept switching but the power is cut to the coils. My motor doesn't like to run very slow (less than 500 rpm) so it can't run very slowly or it would go longer.

However it could never run itself. But it is definitely the way to efficiency.

Cheers

P.S. I've found the best place for the MC2 (charging coil) to be placed at the rotor is halfway between point "A" and the MC1-2 motor coil, or 90 degrees or so lagging in electrical phase to the motor coils, I think is another way to say it.

..


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2013, 12:28:14 AM »
@Mags:
Disconnect the capacitor and diode from the coils, and spin the rotor while monitoring the coil output on the scope. The rotor magnets passing the coils makes AC, right?

How are you going to charge up a capacitor with AC, unless you also have a rectifier in series with the cap?

Further.... if the diode conducts in both directions.... it's not a diode. A 1n60 germanium would probably handle the strain OK and act as a rectifier with low forward voltage. A Schottky diode might work even better.

Here is the issue. In the second vid, he said that all parts are in series. All the coils in series are also in series with the cap, then the reed, then the germanium diode. Can you see my drift? ;)   Sure the cap will charge, but once it does, then what?  ???

I was a true believer before the introduction of the diode in the second vid. Now all that is left to believe in is that the motor coils use soooo little from the cap to run the motor, and if that were so, the cap would need precharging to run the motor.

But in the 2nd vid, he says the cap, being 100 times smaller than the 1st vid cap, charges to much higher voltages, and im assuming he is talking about the motor is generating that voltage when he spins it up faster. 

So my question is, with all components in series, does the motor only use the energy from the cap or only charge it? That series diode is a one way street, no?

Thats why Im nuts right now. Or like I said, that diode is bad or has a breakover voltage that the motor is able to generate.

I wish he would come out with more details.  I can build this to spec and better by hand. But im not putting a penny into it till all is shown. I have enough experience to know what ideas are worth putting time into vs time and cost, according to how much info is available.   Like "oh I need to get a roll of 42awg as soon as possible".  Na, not yet. I dont even know if he will show anything more yet and might have stuff sitting on the bench for who knows how long. 

Ill do the work. And when im done it will be a beautiful piece of work. But I need more before I begin. Those coils will take time. That wire is like hair just about.  Cant use much tension, and backing off to correct a wind that went off course, etc.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2013, 12:28:14 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2013, 12:33:02 AM »
Hi Mags,

Just my speculation,  perhaps Lasersaber buried one more reed and one more diode in the motor structure, then using the schematic in the link (very first post by Lanenal) the capacitor charging from the flyback pulses becomes possible:
http://www.overunity.com/5446/a-self-charging-adams-motor/msg123037/#msg123037   
Of course, careful adjustments for the reeds are needed to insure their simultanous switch ON or OFF operation, not an impossible task.  In the schematic a double reed is mentioned and I know Lasersaber referred to single reed type (SPST) as a substitute for his older reed type used.  Obviously a double reed can be substituted with two single reeds.

Hopefully he will reveal his schematic used, sooner or later.

Gyula

Perhaps, but thats not what he said. So I wont speculate on that beyond what he has shown.

Like I just posted to TK, that diode is in series with the cap.  A one way street. So how do we have charging and motor function with all components in a series loop? ;)

Mags

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2013, 12:42:19 AM »
"The cap in Lasersaber's video is marked 10K 100. A poly film cap of that size cannot possibly be 10 microFarads."

hmm, your gunna have to recheck that. I have 2 caps in front of me, one a white box plastic and 2 blue drop caps, the blues say 4.7k and 22k both 100v and the white says 8,2k 100v and they read as uf respectively.

So you might want to redo those calculations. ;D

Mags

Yes, my understanding on the 10K in case of poly caps is that the K means rather tolerance than a 1000 time multiplier.  The multiplier is designated differently like say 103 and it means you have to add three zeros after the 10 but normally this is valid for cap values in range from pF to nF, so 103 means 10000pF i.e. 10nF,  however in the uF range the "habit is writing the pure cap value number WITHOUT including uF.  So 10 means 10uF. I have also come across with such cap like Mags.
I think K means tolerance and nominally designates +/-10% tolerance. MAybe the letter J means +/-1%, not so sure etc.

EDIT just found the manufacturer of the poly cap, http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pdf/seriesDocuments/MWR%20series.pdf  However in its last page I noticed 106 designation for the 10uF cap  so they may have changed their habit (I speculate).

Gyula

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2013, 12:42:19 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2013, 12:47:00 AM »
Perhaps, but thats not what he said. So I wont speculate on that beyond what he has shown.

Like I just posted to TK, that diode is in series with the cap.  A one way street. So how do we have charging and motor function with all components in a series loop? ;)

Mags

Well, a one way street indeed LOL  Earlier I thought of a Zener diode there but he mentioned germanium diode so... we have to wait. 
(A zener diode in its normal forward direction for the motor function and say with a 4.7V reverze breakdown for charging up the cap, allowing 4.7V loss from the flyback pulse. MAybe I am wrong here...)

Edit: yes I am wrong because the reed is open when the flyback is coming...

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2013, 01:11:39 AM »
"The cap in Lasersaber's video is marked 10K 100. A poly film cap of that size cannot possibly be 10 microFarads."

hmm, your gunna have to recheck that. I have 3 caps in front of me, one a white box plastic and 2 blue drop caps, the blues say 4.7k and 22k both 100v and the white says 8,2k 100v and they read as uf respectively.

So you might want to redo those calculations. ;D

Mags
Are you quite sure about your caps? Not reading nanoFarads instead of microFarads? The web reference I gave says the K means what I said, and even gives the example of "10K" being 0.01 microFarad.
Can you post a photo of your caps?
As I said, the physical size of the poly film cap in the video seems too small for it to be 10 uF/100V.

Here are the dimensions of a typical 50 V 10 uF poly film cap. The 100 V one, if you can find one, will be even larger.
Length: 1.69 in, Width: 0.53 in, Height: 0.77 in
http://www.tedss.com/MPE-10-50-20/?gclid=CJmUnLP2vrcCFUyY4Aod8m0AXQ#

Searching google for "capacitor 10K 100" I get this link, which shows a 10K 100 capacitor: 10 nF, 0.01 uF. (not axial leads but the marking is the point).
http://www.logingel.com/1478/169769/0/ShowProduct/Capacitor
So I'm not quite ready to redo my calculations yet.

On the issue of the series diode: I can't tell right off the bat about the drive circuitry. All I can say is that the amount of drive that he gets from the capacitor seems a bit large, even if it's really a 10 uF (which I still don't believe) instead of a 10 nF.
I don't have any fine magnet wire, either.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2013, 01:23:47 AM »
Yes, my understanding on the 10K in case of poly caps is that the K means rather tolerance than a 1000 time multiplier.  The multiplier is designated differently like say 103 and it means you have to add three zeros after the 10 but normally this is valid for cap values in range from pF to nF, so 103 means 10000pF i.e. 10nF,  however in the uF range the "habit is writing the pure cap value number WITHOUT including uF.  So 10 means 10uF.
I think K means tolerance and nominally designates +/-10% tolerance. MAybe the letter J means +/-1%, not so sure etc.

EDIT just found the manufacturer of the poly cap, http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pdf/seriesDocuments/MWR%20series.pdf 

Gyula
The dimensions of their 10 uF, 100 V cap are 18 x 34 mm. Seems larger than what's shown in the video. And they don't list a 0.01 uF at 100 volts. So I dunno, maybe.
I've found other sources that say a cap marked "10K 100" should be 10 nF not uF. But I'm willing to allow a 10 uF capacitor. It would be a lot more plausible in terms of energy content, that's for sure, turning that little rotor for some tens of seconds maybe.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2013, 01:23:47 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2013, 01:29:30 AM »
Hey Gyula

Yes I think that K is a tolerance value.  I looked these up last year some time as I was determining what caps I wanted to pull from PC power supplies.

I thought of a zener also, but he said germanium.

Laser doesnt seem to be one to pull the wool over our eyes, so I believe what he is saying. But its what he is not saying and showing that bothers me at the moment. Its the spoon feeding of info that has a familiar smell to it if you know what I mean. If I were to show something of this caliber, I would prepare all things and present it all at once.  The biggest reason would be to make sure it does get out there. The spoon feeding is a bad move in my honest opinion. Showing the vids, such as this, im sure that we(tinkerers, inventors, people on the ou quest) are not the only ones watching and knowing the difference between a simple pulse motor and what is being shown here. Im just anticipating that there wont be a complete reveal because he might be stopped from doing so. I pray not, for him and his family first off.  But there seems to be a pattern with spoon fed projects. Then when they back out of a complete reveal, some will just go for it and build, and as history shows, nobody ever gets it working. I guess we will see.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2013, 01:41:11 AM »
Are you quite sure about your caps? Not reading nanoFarads instead of microFarads? The web reference I gave says the K means what I said, and even gives the example of "10K" being 0.01 microFarad.
Can you post a photo of your caps?
As I said, the physical size of the poly film cap in the video seems too small for it to be 10 uF/100V.

Here are the dimensions of a typical 50 V 10 uF poly film cap. The 100 V one, if you can find one, will be even larger.
Length: 1.69 in, Width: 0.53 in, Height: 0.77 in
http://www.tedss.com/MPE-10-50-20/?gclid=CJmUnLP2vrcCFUyY4Aod8m0AXQ#

Searching google for "capacitor 10K 100" I get this link, which shows a 10K 100 capacitor: 10 nF, 0.01 uF. (not axial leads but the marking is the point).
http://www.logingel.com/1478/169769/0/ShowProduct/Capacitor
So I'm not quite ready to redo my calculations yet.

On the issue of the series diode: I can't tell right off the bat about the drive circuitry. All I can say is that the amount of drive that he gets from the capacitor seems a bit large, even if it's really a 10 uF (which I still don't believe) instead of a 10 nF.
I don't have any fine magnet wire, either.

Yes Im sure. uf.  I even used 'good lighting' to be sure because you had me doubting my caps that I have used for some time now.  Some are from car audio component speaker crossover modules. I have 2 that are 12k(12uf) 100v and 12uf makes a lot more sense than 12nf for crossover points in typical cutoff ranges in audio.

I did the 'recheck' right here before I replied. ;)

I remember looking at different sites back then for the info to determine these values visually, and not all were helpful in telling me what my meter says. Strange.

If you wish, I can do a short vid of the testing. I have quite a few of these caps around. ;D

Mags


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2013, 01:50:07 AM »
No, we are cool, I agree that 10 nF doesn't make much sense for an audio crossover network and I think you know what you are doing, most of the time...
 ;)
But you can understand my position too, I hope, since I found a couple of references that support the interpretation of 10 nF.

(I guess we should just be glad it's not one of those old rectangular mica caps with the colored paint dots in the little embossed pits, I guess.... paint flakes off, etc...)

Back to the video, with calipers....
 :P

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2013, 01:51:38 AM »
@Farmhand: Very nice blueprint schematic. Are your L1 and L2 coils on the same core? Where are the clock signals to the mosfet gates coming from?


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2013, 01:56:43 AM »
No, we are cool, I agree that 10 nF doesn't make much sense for an audio crossover network and I think you know what you are doing, most of the time...
 ;)
But you can understand my position too, I hope, since I found a couple of references that support the interpretation of 10 nF.

(I guess we should just be glad it's not one of those old rectangular mica caps with the colored paint dots in the little embossed pits, I guess.... paint flakes off, etc...)

Back to the video, with calipers....
 :P

"and I think you know what you are doing, most of the time...
 ;) "

lol, I try.  ;)

"Back to the video, with calipers....
 :P "

Are ya gunna build it?

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2013, 01:56:43 AM »

 

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