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Author Topic: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap  (Read 186177 times)

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #135 on: June 08, 2013, 02:21:42 AM »
This shot below also shows it, but with my return circuit returning the discharge energy to the charging coil, as well as that if the frequency of my motor is correct I get both sinusoidal looking currents and voltage on the coils. mosfet "on time" is between points "B" and "C".

It's important to remember the current wave form in yellow at the top is upside down relative to the other and it's own polarity, i had to do that to display both wave forms at the same time.

The blue trace is the charging coil current and is the right way up, correct polarity displayed.

..

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Offline Wwadvice

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #136 on: June 08, 2013, 03:36:24 AM »
Note to moderator, message removed b/c it took so long to get it approved that it would have been lost way back.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 12:14:43 AM by Wwadvice »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #137 on: June 08, 2013, 02:04:30 PM »
Hi Farmhand,

Sorry that I did not follow your posts very thoroughly recently and missed your valuable insight on the direct effect of a diode (snubber) on stopping the current in the coil.  I did not evaluate such snubber diodes in pulse motors, for I either charged capacitors or batteries from the collapsed field's energy when tinkered on such setups in the past. 
Thanks for elaborating on it and for you patience to repeat it.

rgds, Gyula
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 10:36:13 PM by gyulasun »

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #137 on: June 08, 2013, 02:04:30 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2013, 09:41:37 PM »
Gyulasun wanted to see a scope shot over the Reed switch while the motor charges the cap (diode in the circuit).

Although my motor is not running by itself from the cap when a diode is put into the circuit, it well charges the cap (only to about 6 Volt, because the rotor can not turn faster than about 200 rpm due to its imbalance) when an air jet is blown over its rim area.

A) To understand what is happening one has to consider what is happening while the motor is running from the 1.3 Volt AAA battery and the rotor is sped up by blowing air over it.

Look at the two scope shots on the top of the attached drawing. While the motor is running from the battery no diode is in the circuit.

B) Then the battery is removed and a diode is put into the circuit. The motor only charges the cap once its speed overcomes the charge already in the cap.

Let's say the cap is charged up to 1 Volt. There is a certain rotor speed which induces an AC current into the coils which has a positive bump of 1 Volt. In order to charge the cap further the rotor speed has to be higher than the one which caused 1 Volt in the cap.

Look at the scope shot on the bottom of the attached drawing.

C) My conclusion:

The charging of the cap when a diode is in the circuit (and the motor runs from the cap) happens when the reed switch is ON and when the rotor speed is higher than would be necessary to cause the momentary Voltage in the cap.


D) The position of the Reed switch relative to a coil and the direction of the turning of the rotor have to be correct if charging should happen. This Reed switch position is also optimal for running the motor as a pulse motor.

E) Might be interesting: with a 1.3 Volt AAA battery the motor consumes about 500 µA and turns with about 150 rpm (rpm measurement with scope, rotor stabilises at a certain speed after a few minutes, depending on supply Voltage). The rotor can not turn faster than about 400 rpm, then it jumps out of its bearings (the top magnet above the axle can not hold the axle straight up any more).

F) I attached a document about the operating principle of a Reed switch which taught me a lot. It shows the areas around the Reed switch are influenced by a magnet (at different magnet approaches).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2013, 10:16:36 PM »
I would like to give my 2 cents on this point, it is one of the things I showed in the tests I did with my motor, when the coils are snubbed by a diode in parallel the current stops immediately as I showed,

I think its balony. Your 2 cents is worth just that. 2 cents. ;) It can be seen in a circuit, in a sim, and in documents. :P

From the pdf uploaded below...


"A slowly decaying magnetic flux (the slowest is experienced with a simplediode shunt across the coil)"   


By using the diode across the coil, the magnetic field of the coil is maintained the longest. As you add loads in between or in line with the coil and diode, the magnetic field decreases much faster.

This is about making motors. If by using the diode across the coil the magnetic field is maintained longer than with just the on time of the switch, this is where we can reduce the on time of the switch and still get the same amount of push on the rotor using less input.
And thats the truth. :P

Mags

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2013, 10:16:36 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2013, 11:07:26 PM »
I think its balony. Your 2 cents is worth just that. 2 cents. ;) It can be seen in a circuit, in a sim, and in documents. :P

From the pdf uploaded below...


"A slowly decaying magnetic flux (the slowest is experienced with a simplediode shunt across the coil)"   


By using the diode across the coil, the magnetic field of the coil is maintained the longest. As you add loads in between or in line with the coil and diode, the magnetic field decreases much faster.

This is about making motors. If by using the diode across the coil the magnetic field is maintained longer than with just the on time of the switch, this is where we can reduce the on time of the switch and still get the same amount of push on the rotor using less input.
And thats the truth. :P

Mags

If that's your opinion Mags then that is your opinion. I'm not going to ignore the results I see with my own eyes from controlled experiments. I take it you don't believe the scope shots. It's a shame. But so be it. I don't require your belief or approval. I say what I see. And I provided the scope shots. As i said I urge people to do the tests and show the results as I did. And be prepared to show it on video as I am. I have no issue with it because i know I can do again anytime.

You are entitled to your opinion. And your right to give it. But I think you are wrong that's my opinion. I see no pint to arguing until there is other tests done by able people with
no bias and prepared to show the results.

If you remember I did not think I would get the result I got either but I did, and I double and tripple checked, the result is posted above. If people don't take me seriously then I'll stop being serious. And play games. I prefer to remain serious about the truth. But if there is no point why bother.

Cheers

P.S. No problem Gyula, I just don't understand why all this has not already been put to rest. The more experiments I do and the more I learn the more I see people say things that don't agree with my experimental results.

2nD P.S. Mags, actually I'm withdrawing my offer of showing it on video. Take it or leave it, I care not which.

Since my 2 cents is only worth 2 cents, I'll give my 20 cents worth or 2 bobs worth as we say here. In my opinion Laser Sabre isn't too interested in telling or showing too much I think his main focus it to show things that cause hype and not much else.

Why not just ask him if it is OU and/or does he think it can be OU ? I did once about all of devices and he said no none were OU. Seems easy enough, just ask him.


..


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2013, 11:34:18 PM »
If that's your opinion Mags then that is your opinion. I'm not going to ignore the results I see with my own eyes from controlled experiments. I take it you don't believe the scope shots. It's a shame. But so be it. I don't require your belief or approval. I say what I see. And I provided the scope shots. As i said I urge people to do the tests and show the results as I did. And be prepared to show it on video as I am. I have no issue with it because i know I can do again anytime.

You are entitled to your opinion. And your right to give it. But I think you are wrong that's my opinion. I see no pint to arguing until there is other tests done by able people with
no bias and prepared to show the results.

If you remember I did not think I would get the result I got either but I did, and I double and tripple checked, the result is posted above. If people don't take me seriously then I'll stop being serious. And play games. I prefer to remain serious about the truth. But if there is no point why bother.

Cheers

P.S. No problem Gyula, I just don't understand why all this has not already been put to rest. The more experiments I do and the more I learn the more I see people say things that don't agree with my experimental results.

2nD P.S. Mags, actually I'm withdrawing my offer of showing it on video. Take it or leave it, I care not which.

Since my 2 cents is only worth 2 cents, I'll give my 20 cents worth or 2 bobs worth as we say here. In my opinion Laser Sabre isn't too interested in telling or showing too much I think his main focus it to show things that cause hype and not much else.

Why not just ask him if it is OU and/or does he think it can be OU ? I did once about all of devices and he said no none were OU. Seems easy enough, just ask him.


..

"2nD P.S. Mags, actually I'm withdrawing my offer of showing it on video. Take it or leave it, I care not which."   ::)

"If that's your opinion Mags then that is your opinion."

No those are my facts. Tyco is a HUGE company. How about you call them and tell them that it is only their opinion. :o ;)

And here is a circuit below that can make the magnetic field last even longer using an SPDT reed switch. When the input is switched off, the diode takes over till the reed is switched to the Normally Closed NC position cutting the diode out of the snub loop.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2013, 11:34:18 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2013, 11:54:52 PM »
What is the motor supposed to do ? It looks like it does nothing. And LaserSabre is a practical joker, even though I don't see the point to it, the way I see it it could be a joke, I don't take his stuff seriously because all he wants to do is impress people with implied OU that is nothing more than micro power devices. I don't see the point to the thing. Anyone who sets out with the objective of making something spin for no reason is a bit off the mark in my opinion.

I asked him if any of his devices produced excess energy and he said no, none did.

My question is what is the point to the device and what can it do that is practical ?

I don't see how it has anything to do with Tesla. He should also say what it is that makes it have anything to do with Tesla.

Maybe it is a demonstration of what a 3D printer can do, in that regard is isn't all that impressive.

In my opinion this is exactly what is wrong with the free energy movement, generally speaking.

The device is pointless. It will stop. It proves nothing.

Cheers

Here we have Farmhands 'first' post in this thread. Cutting down what Laser has shown at a point where nobody really knows nothing much about it yet. Thats an 'opinion' completely depleted of substance if I ever saw one. Whats the beef?  Are you worried it may take away attention from your motor thread? Whats so special about yours?

Then you say in your latest post....

"In my opinion Laser Sabre isn't too interested in telling or showing too much I think his main focus it to show things that cause hype and not much else."

Well you just keep on working on 'your' project in your thread(of which you seem to have a strange way of keeping fellowship, if one reads it they will understand) then and stop posting continuous negativity toward others and their ideas.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2013, 12:01:12 AM »


Why not just ask him if it is OU and/or does he think it can be OU ? I did once about all of devices and he said no none were OU. Seems easy enough, just ask him.


..

The only one here in this thread talking about OU is you. ;)   Were talking about efficiency near its best. Lets see you run your motor for any period of time from a dead stop with a 10uf cap. Charge the cap to what ever voltage you wish. Lets see it. :o

Mags

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2013, 12:01:12 AM »
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Offline Billxx

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2013, 02:30:19 AM »
I did some scope shots over a 10 Ohm shunt to calculate average power draw of my little pulse motor at 1 Volt supply Voltage (no diode, just the shunt, see circuit diagram in attached drawing). And a scope shot over the Reed switch to show its ON-time (between 20% and 30%, depending on Reed switch position and turning speed of the rotor). I have chosen a 1 Volt supply Voltage to make the rotor turn relatively slowly.

My Multimeter measurement of about 500 µA was confirmed.

Why does my pulse motor draw about 100 times more power than Lasersaber's six coil motor?

Is it the impedance of the coils?

Is it the mechanical set up (specially the crudeness of the build)?

It can not be the ON-time of the Reed switch, because it could not be made 100 times shorter!

Comments appreciated.

Remark: The rotor can not turn faster than a few 100 rpm because it is badly balanced. With a supply Voltage of about 6 Volt it jumps out of its bearing (terminal speed reached).

For further details and a photo see this post http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg362615/#msg362615

Greetings, Conrad

conradelektro,

I believe the reason why (your motor requires more power) is the amount of energy needed to overcome the inertia. Your rotor with the magnets is larger in diameter, weighs more, etc. It's a matter of greater mass and weight, I would think would be the reason why your motor requires greater energy to turn vs LaserSaber's motor.

What if you were to make your rotor out of Balsa Wood structure capturing the magnets, held in place with super glue? And the diameter was the same as LaserSaber's? (Note: Cut out as much material from the rotor as possible without weakening it to make the rotor as light as possible)

To run an equivalent energy efficient device you'll need to match or improve on it's ability, no?

You have a cool motor and so does LaserSaber, I'm just inputting an observation from the peanut gallery because you asked for comments.

My sincere apologies for butting in on the discussions.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 05:24:32 AM by Billxx »

Offline lasersaber

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2013, 03:19:36 AM »
Quote
@Lasersaber: what is the DC resistance of your coil (or all six coils in series) in your six coil motor?


Sorry for the delay.  The coils seem to very between 1.6 to 1.7K.  The resistance on the six coiler is 9.9K.

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2013, 03:19:36 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #146 on: June 09, 2013, 03:33:35 AM »

Sorry for the delay.  The coils seem to very between 1.6 to 1.7K.  The resistance on the six coiler is 9.9K.

Thats incredible. Who woulda thunk it?  :o ;D So the 12 coil is near 20kohm lol.

I have to hand it to ya Laser. Nice work. Can you inspire us a bit on what made you go this route?  Thanks 

Mags

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #147 on: June 09, 2013, 03:45:18 AM »
And what else is truly amazing is how quickly the caps charge through all that winding. :o
How does that much charge happen at such low currents? Let alone motor action. There has to be some reason that I just dont understand.

Mags

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #148 on: June 09, 2013, 04:13:49 AM »
And what else is truly amazing is how quickly the caps charge through all that winding. :o
How does that much charge happen at such low currents? Let alone motor action. There has to be some reason that I just dont understand.

Mags

Mags:

Might it be possible that all of that very fine wire is acting as an antenna of some sort?  Possibly capturing a little bit of all of that broadcast energy floating around out there?  It would not take much to help to charge that small cap.

I am not saying laser is doing anything untoward here, just positing a possible explanation of where some "extra" energy might be coming from.  Just a little might go a long way with his well designed rotor.

Bill

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #149 on: June 09, 2013, 04:59:08 AM »
Hey Bill
Well, nobody is saying OU yet. Considering the total ohms of the coils, one can calculate the current flow through the coils if they were only depicted by resistance alone. Then we have most likely huge air core inductances in series. Im gunna have to build it. This needs to be looked at with a scope for sure. Were looking at things in the very very low micro amps here. No need to assume any extra energy, just very little use of it. As I said in an earlier post, I have a an idea that there is more efficiency in numbers of coils and magnets as compared to 1 driver coil on a rotor. If it is correct, then what would happen with 24 coils, 48 coils?  And just all in series as shown. 48 coils would be 80kohm. But from what Im seeing, 48coils would do better. Then 96 coils, more mags also as we increase the number of coils. It doesnt even have to be a larger rotor, just stacks possibly.

Lol how much less can the current use get if 24 coils were used? Or 48? And still have motor action? It will be nano scale. That rotor output needs to be measured somehow. If at 24 or 48 coils it can still work against the drag of the straw, this will need some serious looking at. ;)

Mags

 

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