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Author Topic: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap  (Read 183038 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #105 on: June 04, 2013, 03:34:56 PM »
I want to apologise for hijacking this thread, which should be about LaserSaber's motor running on capacitors only. The Travis stuff is interesting but ultimately boring. He has even removed the nice animation from his website and has toned down his claims considerably. So no more about Travis in this thread, I promise.
 :-X

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Offline linoavac

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #106 on: June 04, 2013, 03:47:43 PM »
after LASERSABRE.... Linoavac made a VIDEO with aplication of "Linoavac magnetic principle"
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FsFNbx0AWE  (new point of view , after lasersaber)
.
.
also with a video general info of coils with magnets (kick magnetedCOIL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybWA9wWfUbQ

.

Offline linoavac

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #107 on: June 04, 2013, 03:48:50 PM »
after LASERSABRE.... Linoavac made a VIDEO with aplication of "Linoavac magnetic principle"
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FsFNbx0AWE  (new point of view , after lasersaber)
.
.
also with a video general info of coils with magnets (kick magnetedCOIL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybWA9wWfUbQ

.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #107 on: June 04, 2013, 03:48:50 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #108 on: June 04, 2013, 03:54:37 PM »
@all

Wow, I never thought I would ever see @TK cutting the cheese on youtube. Next stop MIT. lol

So, after that rather scent filled interlude, let's all go back to our regular programming.

@LaserSaber replied to my question here...

http://laserhacker.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.msg1648#msg1648

Copied below......

Quote

 Hi Wattsup,

I will explain with a corrected picture.  There is a vertical piece of wire glued to the plastic that the 42 AGW wire from the bobbin is attached to.  If you still do not understand I will explain it in my next video.

I have now printed a V3 design.  I am just starting to wind the coils with 39 AGW wire.  I am using the 39 AGW just because I have 10 lbs of it and need to use it up.  I think the 42 AGW would work better but the V3 has bigger coils and I do not have enough 42 AGW oh hand.

I have been testing lot's of different configurations.  It seems that I cannot get the good charging effect with the 6 coil 6 magnet motor.  The charging really works will with the 6 magnet 12 coil arrangement.  Something about the alternating coils seems to really make a big difference.  I will be able to test this more on the V3 unit with it's snap in and out bobbins.  I will have a lot to show on the next video.  I just have to stop experimenting long enough to make another video. :-)

  (See image below)

Unquote

Seems like the Autodesk 123D Design version 1.3 is not compatible with my Windows XP Professional 64 and I will never use Win7 even if you paid me.
http://www.123dapp.com/design#designDownloadDetails
I will download it anyway and try to install it.

wattsup

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #109 on: June 04, 2013, 04:25:54 PM »
@Gyulasun: thank you for the Reed switch timing advise, specially the double Reed switch, also this Adams Motor design http://www.overunity.com/5446/a-self-charging-adams-motor/msg123037/#msg123037 seems to be interesting.

@TinselKoala: thank you for the Reed switch timing advise, specially the magnet on the opposite side of the Reed switch.

@Farmhand: thank you for showing the nice trigger circuits.

I was stuck in a mountain region in Austria for almost three days due to flooding and landslides, fortunately in a nice hotel and all necessities kept working. Many people were not so lucky and lost their house in Austria, Germany and Czechoslovakia.

I had a lot of time to think about experiments with my 6 coil Lasersaber 3D-printed motor replication, which I will start tomorrow.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #109 on: June 04, 2013, 04:25:54 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #110 on: June 04, 2013, 11:24:18 PM »
@all

Hmmmmmm. I managed to install the Autodesk 123D Design but when I go to open an existing file, it does not recognize @LaserSabers *.stl files. I guess that means I will have to draw my own or just go with the files @LS put up and have the parts printed in via a local 3D print guy. Rats.

wattsup



Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2013, 11:45:47 PM »
Hi Wattsup,

Normally the newer versions within a design software are made to downward compatible with the older version's files but in case LS say uses an old enough version and then later the newer versions went through some significant developments than it may not be valid any more.  So by knowing the version number of LS's Autodesk (its exact name too) and then studying the records of the version modifications on the Autodesk site may reveal something.

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2013, 11:45:47 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2013, 04:21:57 PM »
STL files are not the best format for transfer of 3d cad data, these are mainly for 3d printing.
A better format for use with CNC machines would be SAT or even the old IGES format.




Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2013, 09:26:11 PM »
I did some tests with my 6 coil pulse motor (replication of Lasersabers's first 3D-printed pulse motor):

See my YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvstgIRuOA (best viewed with 720p)

The two most important circuits are added. The aim of the tests was "charging a 1000 µF electrolytic capacitor" by blowing air over the rim of the rotor in order to turn it into a generator.

Note: the cap is charged up from 0 Volt (no battery and no power supply used, no initial charge, may be a residual charge of about 5 mV).

Astonishing, when shortening the coils with a Reed switch the cap could be charged to a higher Voltage (2 Volt without a Reed switch, 4 Volt with a Reed switch shortening the coils).

My next test will be a double Reed switch in order to limit the ON-time of the Reed switch combination. But I still have to build the adjustable double Reed switch. The double Reed switch idea was suggested by Gyulasun. I will also try to adjust the ON-time of the Reed switch with a magnet behind the Reed switch as suggested by TinselKoala.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2013, 09:26:11 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2013, 11:48:14 PM »
Hi Conrad,

It is very good you got back home safe and sound escaping from the huge flooding raging in Central Europe. 

Very good tests!  I am trying to find explanation on the double DC voltage received in generator mode with using the reed switch. 

(I assume you tried to keep the rotor speed more or less the same in both cases i.e. without and with the reed switch, right?  Also what you wrote:  "Astonishing, when shortening the coils with a Reed switch the cap could be charged to a higher Voltage (2 Volt without a Reed switch, 4 Volt with a Reed switch shortening the coils."  this means the reed switch was actually in series with the coils as the schematic shows and NOT shorting the coils, right?).

With these two assumptions,  I think when the reed switches OFF, the voltage spike across the series coils charges up either the reed switch self capacitance (a few pF with the wireing) or the optional parallel cap (you drew 100 nF) and this charged up capacitor behaves as a voltage source (with higher voltage amplitude than the 1000 uF has) hence its charge goes into the 1000 uF via the coils and the diode.  This could be checked by connecting a scope probe in parallel with the reed switch (probe ground clip to 1000 uF negative line) and 'air-blow up' the rotor to the speed where the 4V DC is received in the 1000 uF.
Earlier I tended to accept that in LaserSaber's setup the germanium diode conducted backwards (Ge diodes indeed have a few uA reverse current) so the spike's was able to drive charging current backwards via the diode into the 10 or 1000 uF cap but now that you have used Silicon diode, this may not fully be the explanation.  Si diodes have pico or nanoAmper reverse current. 
If the scope shows a positive spike-like pulse format across the reed switch when the reed is just off, then you may try to use different capacitor values in parallel to find the best value which can give the highest DC value in the 1000 uF. When first chacking the waveform across the reed with the scope probe, do not use the 100 nF in parallel with the reed, probe will add 15 pF in parallel with the reed's self cap.)

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #115 on: June 06, 2013, 12:16:53 AM »

(I assume you tried to keep the rotor speed more or less the same in both cases i.e. without and with the reed switch, right?  Also what you wrote:  "Astonishing, when shortening the coils with a Reed switch the cap could be charged to a higher Voltage (2 Volt without a Reed switch, 4 Volt with a Reed switch shortening the coils."  this means the reed switch was actually in series with the coils as the schematic shows and NOT shorting the coils, right?).

Earlier I tended to accept that in LaserSaber's setup the germanium diode conducted backwards (Ge diodes indeed have a few uA reverse current) so the spike's was able to drive charging current backwards via the diode into the 10 or 1000 uF cap but now that you have used Silicon diode, this may not fully be the explanation.  Si diodes have pico or nanoAmper reverse current. 
If the scope shows a positive spike-like pulse format across the reed switch when the reed is just off, then you may try to use different capacitor values in parallel to find the best value which can give the highest DC value in the 1000 uF.

Thanks,  Gyula

I tried to always generate about the same peak rotor speed. When I went higher the rotor tilted away from the top magnet (which holds the axle in a vertical position), therefore I always tried to stay just below this mechanical limit of my motor. This "peak rpm" is visible because the axle starts to wobble.

I did the tests with and without the 100 nF cap over the Reed switch. No difference. So, this 100 nF cap is not the reason.

I did the tests with many different diodes, the best result (quickest charging of the 1000 µF cap) was with the SB3100.

The slowest charging happened with the 1N5711 which has only 20 nA reverse current. Therefore I tend to believe the explanation, that the diode reverse current goes into the coils and is "shortened" by the Reed switch, which causes a back EMF spike. This back EMF spike might cause the higher Voltage.

The circuit diagram is correct (Reed switch after the coils). I call this "shortening the coils" because the diode reverse current is "shortened" to GND. This might be a wrong terminology.

I also tried a 4 µF electrolytic capacitor (instead of the 1000 µF one) and could charge up to 7 Volt with the reed switch (and to 4 Volt without the reed switch). But the results were not consistent, I have to repeat this. 1000 µF and more have a "slowing everything down effect", which helps when doing tests and measurements.

Tomorrow I will attempt some scope shots over the coils and over the Reed switch in order to find the reason for the higher Voltage when using the Reed switch.

I also want to try this Adams Motor circuit, which you posted some days ago (is attached). But I need the "double Reed switch" for that. I have enough Reed switches, but it takes time to build a contraption holding to Reed switches so that their relative position can be adjusted.

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #115 on: June 06, 2013, 12:16:53 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #116 on: June 06, 2013, 12:52:06 AM »
Hi Conrad,

Well, the SB3100 Schottky diode has 500 uA reverse current (at 25°C ambient temp, from data sheet) so this may confirm the charging process.  This makes me pondering: what if you connect (say) a 100 kOhm resistor in parallel with the diode? (to increase greatly its "reverse" leakage...), of course this cuts back a little on the peak DC across the 1000 uF cap. (using a 1 MOhm potmeter as variable resistor may help finding the best compromise...)

Thanks, Gyula

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #117 on: June 06, 2013, 12:34:02 PM »
!!!!!!! Correction !!!!!!:

Both charging circuits shown in my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvstgIRuOA are able to charge the 1000 µF electrolytic capacitor to about the same Voltage (4 V to 4.5 V). When testing the most simple circuit (diode only) the rotor turned more slowly, therefore the charge of the cap only went up to about 2 Volt.

There is no surprising effect !!!!!!!!!

Both charging circuits published in my post http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg362425/#msg362425 are correct, but they have about the same charging effect. The 1000 µF electrolytic capacitor can be charged up to about 4 V to 4.5 V by blowing air over the rotor.

Sorry about the stupid error. When testing the charging circuit with the Reed switch I was blowing the air over the rotor more skilfully (training effect), therefore it turned faster than in my initial tests with only a diode (no Reed switch). Today I repeated the tests more carefully and it turned out, that both charging circuits give about the same results.

Still, the diode SB3100 worked best (fastest charging of the cap with both charging circuits).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #118 on: June 06, 2013, 01:11:14 PM »
New cap charging attempt, see the attached circuit and photo.

This circuit allows to run the setup as a generator (no battery attached, 1000 µF electrolytic capacitor can be charged to about 1.5 V by turning the rotor with an air jet) or as a pulse motor (battery connected).

But the diode has a negative effect on the pulse motor mode. The setup consumes more power (about 600 µA instead of 500 µA) and the rotor turns a little bit more slowly.

My conclusion after my error and my tests: There is nothing surprising!

Once the rotor has very little friction one can play "cap charging games" (by speeding up the rotor with an air jet and by placing a rectifier diode in the circuit) with the expected results.

Once the rotor has very little friction one can make the pulse motor turn with very little power.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #119 on: June 06, 2013, 03:17:49 PM »
Hi Conrad,

Quote
The circuit diagram is correct (Reed switch after the coils). I call this "shortening the coils" because the diode reverse current is "shortened" to GND. This might be a wrong terminology.

Okay, thanks for clarifying this. I knew the diagram was ok, so the word "shorten" (to cut in length) did not cause problem. To put it simply: the reed switch discharges the 1000 uF capacitor via the coils and via the reversed biased diode (discharge current depends mainly on the reverse current characteristic of the diode and the AC impedance of the series coils).


Quote
But the diode has a negative effect on the pulse motor mode. The setup consumes more power (about 600 µA instead of 500 µA) and the rotor turns a little bit more slowly.

I think when you connect the diode in parallel with the coils, this may need a different reed switch position than when the diode is in series with the coils.  The parallel diode keeps up the current in the coils when the reed already is OFF, so the reed needs to be in a position where its own ON time is less than in the case the diode is in series with the coils. IF you readjusted the reed to the parallel diode, then please disregard what I wrote.

Thanks for the measurements. You think now the waveform across the switch is not worth checking by the scope (when the diode is in series with the coils)?

Greetings, Gyula


 

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