Author Topic: The Ossie motor (Read 332318 times)

Light · « **Reply #285 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:32:54 AM »

Thks, Schpankme, yes, as I found out the ossie is a long-runner, but not self-oneâ€¦
I made tests with 1.5v (easy to watch tendencies) and voltage drop was really low, and with 6v bttry it runs for long time and seems as a self-charger, but eventually voltage gets downâ€¦

And your schematic reminding me TROS (transistor oscillator); itâ€™s running from 1.5v bttry too and can light bunch of lights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRYgNbLuXs0
May I see your pics of setup you show, wondering what output you got?
thks

captainpecan · « **Reply #286 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:35:34 AM »

Quote from: futuristic on February 17, 2010, 10:32:46 PM

What we see here is induced voltage which seems to be visible only when FET is conducting.
Depending on the hall position you were catching certain part of the sinus wave of induced voltage. Pulse from the battery is so small that is not even visible.

I'm not so sure that is correct. I could be wrong, but I see something different. I see the first two peaks are the induced current, and the 3rd peak is the pulse. Notice the sharp turn off at the end of the 3rd peak. Thats the end of the pulse. So to break it down, it appears to me that you get the positive and negative AC peaks from the induced current, and towards the end of the negative peak it delivers a positive pulse. This makes the negative peak take a steep incline to the positive side until the pulse is turned off.

I THINK that is what I am seeing. But if I am correct, I am not sure if the pulse is the correct polarity to even drive that motor. So I still am a bit confused here. The main thing is that there is definitely 3 peaks for every pass of a coil. One of them has got to be the drive pulse. I can't think of what else it would be.

Jimboot · « **Reply #287 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:37:19 AM »

Quote from: Light on February 18, 2010, 02:32:54 AM

Thks, Schpankme, yes, as I found out the ossie is a long-runner, but not self-oneâ€¦
I made tests with 1.5v (easy to watch tendencies) and voltage drop was really low, and with 6v bttry it runs for long time and seems as a self-charger, but eventually voltage gets downâ€¦

And your schematic reminding me TROS (transistor oscillator); itâ€™s running from 1.5v bttry too and can light bunch of lights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRYgNbLuXs0
May I see your pics of setup you show, wondering what output you got?
thks

Hey Light.
I'm still unclear what the def of a self runner is but I had one run for 97.5 hours on a D cell at 250-300 RPM before I switched it off. Voltage b4 run 1.32. After run 1.36. The tuning of the reeds was the key for me. With the motor tuned to run at about 1000 RPM on 6V, it will take a load from this motor http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YM2712 and run at around 700RPM with no discernible change in voltage drop. i.e. the load does not draw more current. The output from the motor on my meters is 2.5V at around 0.2DCmA . I have tried charging the running battery but not a lot of success as I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing. However I have charged a battery of a rechargeable torch using it's motor attached to my rotor. However I have not yet been successful in getting the motor well tuned so there in no voltage drop AND had the additional motor attached. Also my motor is losing a lot of energy in my wobbly coupling.

So I would not say the voltage always drops. Not in my exp anyway. I am a complete noob but I still think the Ossie has real potential. I hope that is helpful
Love to see any vids you have of your rig.

Edit: Not sure if I'm reading the meter right. The scale is a little ambiguous for me. It measured at 66% of the 2.5 scale so I'm assuming that is around 0.16DCmA.

Jimboot · « **Reply #288 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:40:49 AM »

Quote from: neptune on February 17, 2010, 12:06:19 PM

@Jimboot . Re the cicuit using the torch motor to charge a battery thru a diode . use a switch to short out the diode once things get up to speed . this will save energy waste in the diode and improve charge rate .

Apologies if this is a dumb question but if I short the diode won't the gen motor start drawing power from the charge battery?

futuristic · « **Reply #289 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:59:05 AM »

Another insight into woopy's scope shots.

I think that is Hall is triggering only on 1 out of 4 rotor magnets.

During that trigger pulse FET conducts and induced voltage in coil causes current flow through circuit so we can see induced voltage on the 1 ohm resistor.

What I don't completely understand is why, the 0 of the Y axis is not in the middle of that induced voltage.

I could be that pulse into motor is actually 20mA. In this case voltage on resistor would be 20mV and if you add that +20mV to the induced voltage of coil you would get the same voltage shift up on the Y axis.

Have fun

Frenky

Jimboot · « **Reply #290 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:24:16 AM »

@woopy btw mate I think you are doing sensational work. I don't understand it yet tho

You're encouraging me to test a Hall sensor tho. Did you ever build Ossies' SS switching circuit? I'll be interested to know your thoughts on Futuristic''s analysis of the activation as well.

woopy · « **Reply #291 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:10:47 AM »

all

have a good but short night because Olympic game.

This morning i redo the test to be sure of the 2 ma current draw.

here 4 pix to explain what i see.

the pix had been made one after another to be sure we speak of the same thing.

pix 1 is the ampmeter 2.1 average ma it varies slightly between 2 an2.2 ma probably due to slight wobling of the rotor or perhaps inequal magnetisation of the magnets. The minus value is only due to inversion of the connection nothing relevant.

pix 2 is the trace at 2.1 ma almost the same as the one from yesterday.

pix 3 to answer Futuristc question i hooked the probe to the coils and they fire all and regular. When it happens that one coil is not fired the trace is a smooth AC trace

pix 4 is my study of the trace (pix 2) above. As Cp think , i think the two first peak are zeroing each other and there is only the green triangle as pulse current . And the calculation (Thanks Gyula) shows that
this correspond roughly to 2.11 ma .

But on pix 4 i would like an explanation of those red and blue peak. Are they gain and lost ? are they braking the rotor etc.. ? What do you think ?

regards

Laurent

futuristic · « **Reply #292 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:31:04 AM »

Hi, thank you for clearing some things up.

Just a question. I see from the screenshot that you have two channel scope. Why don't you measure both voltages at the same time?

If you did your scope shot would be like this:

woopy · « **Reply #293 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:15:59 PM »

Thanks Frenky

I am far from being an expert and i need you to improve my knowledge.

I hooked the main probe of canal 2 between the battery positive and the resistor (1 ohm wrapped with red tape to easily recognise it ) and i got a sister image of canal 1(pix 2)

but as soon as i try to connect the second probe on the other side of the resistor there is a short cut the amps jumps away and the motor stops. This is not the first time that something like this happens when i try to use canal 2.

So please where is the right place to connect the second scope probe (clip that i hold in my fingers) ?

Thanks

Laurent

Jimboot · « **Reply #294 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:21:59 PM »

Hi Guys, Hadn't tried my 12VDC SLA in a while on the old rig.
The battery is steadily charging. How long this last I'm not sure. If it keeps going up it will probably melt my reeds but I'll let her run.

futuristic · « **Reply #295 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:56:48 PM »

Quote from: woopy on February 18, 2010, 12:15:59 PM

So please where is the right place to connect the second scope probe (clip that i hold in my fingers) ?

It seems that - of your probes are on the same potential.

Do it like this to fix this issue:
+ of the first probe put between + of battery and the resistor.
- of the first probe put on the other side of resistor
- of the second probe put on the same spot as - of the first probe
+ of the second probe put on the other side of the coil

This way the voltage on the resistor will show up correctly but voltage on the coil will be shown flipped upside down.
But at least we will be able to see it together.

Frenky

futuristic · « **Reply #296 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:43:18 PM »

@Jimboot:

The top scope trace is voltage across resistor and the bottom is across coils?
If so it seems you have big current pulses going back to the battery. It's surface it is much bigger that the one of input current.

Wow this thread is really amazing.

neptune · « **Reply #297 on:** February 18, 2010, 06:54:03 PM »

@Jimboot , re reply 288 . I assume this circuit consists of only a small motor used a generator , a diode and a battery , which is being charged . If you uncouple the generator from the drive , and short the diode , it will cause the generator to spin as a motor . NOTICE WHICH WAY IT TURNS. Now if you spin it in the same direction as it motors , BUT FASTER , it will charge the battery .In other words , provided generator voltage exceeds battery voltage , current will be driven backwards through the battery causing charging . Hence my previous advice to only short the diode after things get up to speed. The diode acts as a resistor , wasting power .
Re reply 287 . Photo shows meter on 10 volt DC scale . 66% of 10 volts is 6.6 volts . An analogue meter has several scales. Choose a scale that corresponds to the chosen range . So with range switch on 10 volt scale , use the scale on the dial that reads 1 to 10 . Please reply , telling me if you understand all this 100% because it is VITAL. There is no shame in not knowing , only in not asking .

woopy · « **Reply #298 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:46:13 PM »

@ Frenky

back from work and tried your suggestion KUDOS it works fine . effectively my scope probes have the same ground so i have to be very carefull by using canal 1 and 2 together so to not short cut them

And the result is that is no doubt now each firing of coils comes from this first wavy and than spiky pulse.

And of course i am still interested in an explanation !

Just for info those datas are made under battery 12.2 volts Rpm at 473 and indicated average Ma at 2.1 that is an input power of about 24 miliwatts

good luck at all

and long night to me

regards

Laurent

.

futuristic · « **Reply #299 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:59:47 PM »

Great!

Can you please try putting one (schottky) diode in your circuit.
It would probably help a lot at telling what is going on.

Frenky

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