Im beginning to wonder if this is actually MH speaking,or his 7 year old grandson has hacked his account .

Brad

Earlier in this thread you argued and argued that a standard Joule Thief in its normal operation mode was an RLC circuit.  There is no capacitor in the schematic, there is no oscillation or resonance taking place because of the minuscule insignificant parasitic capacitance present in the circuit.  That was pure willful ignorance on your part.

The fact that Magluvin made reference to his switching power supply design book has no bearing whatsoever on the battle about the Joule Thief circuit type.

Take a look at the timing diagram again and observe no capacitive effects whatsoever and observe traces that have a signature of an L/R-type process taking place in the circuit.

So you are dead wrong about a Joule Thief being an RLC type of circuit.  I suppose a related issue is are you mature enough to admit it?

MileHigh

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476419#msg476419 date=1457144080]

Earlier in this thread you argued and argued that a standard Joule Thief in its normal operation mode was an RLC circuit.  There is no capacitor in the schematic, there is no oscillation or resonance taking place because of the minuscule insignificant parasitic capacitance present in the circuit.  That was pure willful ignorance on your part.

You need to stop quoting incorrect bullshit MH.
Any circuit with an inductor has a C value-like it or not,thats how it is.
There for,the circuit is an RLC circuit-unless you can provide what the C value in a circuit has to be before it is not considered an RLC circuit.
I have never claimed that your JT circuit shows signs of resonance. What is being discussed here,is if we made the JT circuit to operate at a resonant state,what would the benefits be. Your stuck on that!there is only 1 JT circuit! thing again,and that is just crap.

Everyone else is playing with ideas as to how to get a JT circuit to resonate,and here you are waffling on about !your! particular circuit.
You have done nothing but bring negativity to the subject at hand.
You cannot even answer your own question's--you need 4 to 8 weeks to go gather all the information from the net. This has been a habit with you over the past year-asking questions that you your self cannot answer-->and yet determine that others that answer those questions are wrong-like with the wine glass.

Take a look at the timing diagram again and observe no capacitive effects whatsoever and observe traces that have a signature of an L/R-type process taking place in the circuit.

You off with the fairy's MH-->once again,who are you to determine what a JT circuit is?.
Who said that we cannot increase the capacitance of the circuit to gain the desired effect. This is a rule you have put upon your self MH,and we do not follow your rules--believe it or not.

So you are dead wrong about a Joule Thief being an RLC type of circuit.  I suppose a related issue is are you mature enough to admit it

?

The related issue here MH,is that your stuck on one circuit design.
As i have told you time and time again--MH dose not decide what the JT circuit is.
Can you not understand that those here are designing circuits where a resonate state can be achieved. What your saying is-here is an ICE. I want you to increase the HP of that ICE without modifying anything.<-- Thats how silly you sound MH.

So after chatting to some people,we have decided that we are no longer interested in your negativity and one tracked mind.
We will simply be paying no more attention to your bullshit--like not being able to answer your own questions--stuck on one JT circuit design--ETC,ETC.
There is simply no room here for some one that has no vision,so please go annoy some other group.

Quote:  An ideal inductor would not behave like a capacitor, but in the real world there are no ideal components.

Basically, any real inductor can be though of an ideal inductor that has a resistor in series with it (wire resistance) and a capacitor in parallel with it (parasitic capacitance).

Now, where does the parasitic capacitance come from? an inductor is made out of a coil of insulated wire, so there are tiny capacitors between the windings (since there are two sections of wire separated by an insulator). Each section of windings is at a slightly different potential (because of wire inductance and resistance).

As the frequency increases, the impedance of the inductor increases while the impedance of the parasitic capacitor decreases, so at some high frequency the impedance of the capacitor is much lower than the impedance of the inductor, which means that your inductor behaves like a capacitor. The inductor also has its own resonance frequency.

This is why some high frequency inductors have their windings far apart - to reduce the capacitance.

This is my last response to you MH.


Brad

How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?


How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

Can you list all those things that will determine the resonant frequency of a wine glass MH

These are very good questions, I am glad you brought this up.
My answer is going to be exactly the same as I have been saying to you all along.

the wine glass is very similar to the ferrite core. and as I will note,
the "input" frequency - i.e. your finger rubbing the edge of the glass
does not play a very important factor in the resonance of the wine glass.
You can test this by varying many factors of the wine glass set-up,
while the vibration frequency of your finger (caused by friction) remains relatively constant.

the resonant frequency is determined, primarily, by a materials constant of the glass, the physical dimensions of the wine glass,
as well as the materials property (as a factor of density) of the  medium inside the glass. (water, oil, etc)

in a ferrite core, the "medium" outside the core dimensions, is that of the permeability of air.
When all factors are accounted for, you will see that these two examples are rather synonymous.

Now - what happens to the resonance of the glass, when your finger-vibrations are sporadic?
or are caused to be interfering with the frequency of the wine glass?

the glass does not resonate as intensely, does it?
This is the same as switching a JT , in an incoherently digital manner.

I know you "get it"... you cannot "not get it" at this point in the discussion.....

Why, then, do you insist on propagating this "apparently" ignorant viewpoint?
Is it just for the fun of conflict? Do you want to deter this line of thinking for some other goal?
or is it that you are truly that indoctrinated, that you cannot allow yourself to see what is right in front of you?

Reference post.

How to determine !what! the resonant frequency of a wine glass is.
1 Answer--  If you have a microphone and an oscilloscope, you can tap the glass and measure the frequency of the ring. Tried it today,and works a treat.

How to get a wine glass to resonate
1 answer--Resonance occurs when an oscillating system(the prime mover or outside force) is driven at a frequency which is the same as the wine glasses own natural frequency.

What is resonance
Answer when a vibrating system or external force drives another system to oscillate with greater amplitude at a specific preferential frequency. In the case of the wine glass experiment,the outside oscillating force is sound waves. When the frequency of the external force matches the natural frequency of the wine glass,the wine glass will resonate,and the amplitude will rise due to energy being stored in the wine glass. Once the stored energy(or amplitude) exceeds that of what the wine glass can store,the glass will shatter---the system breaks down.


Brad

Smoky2:

So how about that, you can't answer the two questions either.  Your ferrite core discussion is bogus and doesn't answer either question.

Why, then, do you insist on propagating this "apparently" ignorant viewpoint?
Is it just for the fun of conflict? Do you want to deter this line of thinking for some other goal?
or is it that you are truly that indoctrinated, that you cannot allow yourself to see what is right in front of you?

My viewpoint is informed.  There is no fun in it but there is good sound principle - if you want to talk about something and share it with your peers, then you should actually know what you are talking about.  The old "indoctrinated" line again, messages from the guru.  How come you can't see what is right in front of you and I can?

Brad:

MH has no answers him self--that will take him 4 to 8 weeks to gather together.

You stop this ridiculous immature nonsense right now and take what I am saying to you at face value.

Just forget about it smOKy,and carry on with what you believe in.

That is a very telling line, and says a lot about you.  You don't actually have to know what you are talking about, you just have to believe that you know what you are talking about.  And that is the problem right there, because you share a lot of disinformation and outright mistakes with your peers and present the material as if you are right.  Case in point is your "resonant Joule thief" that was no such thing of the sort.  That is wrong and that is counterproductive for the people reading you that believe you know what you are doing and can't separate out the right stuff from the wrong stuff.

How to determine !what! the resonant frequency of a wine glass is.
1 Answer--  If you have a microphone and an oscilloscope, you can tap the glass and measure the frequency of the ring. Tried it today,and works a treat.

You are acting like a clown and answering a question that wasn't even asked.   You are answering the question, "How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass measured?" when the real question is, "How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?"  You are just forcing a square peg into a round hole to satisfy yourself but you aren't fooling anybody including yourself.

MileHigh

Wattsup:

Before you can explain resonance you need to fully understand how amp ratings are produced for different wire AWG. They only give you amps but there is never any mention of volts so your wires are half identified which makes the amp tables more bugus then anything else. Totally useless in fact. So you guys find out how Standard EE derives amp ratings for copper wire and if you can do that and post it here and I will come back and explain to you what resonance is and what it means in your furthering of OU experiments.

Amp ratings for different wire sizes are simply based on making a reasonable estimate on how much resistive losses and corresponding heat generation the wire can sustain while at the same time remaining at a safe temperature in an environment that allows for a reasonable amount of air circulation.  Air circulation is a must.  Therefore often wire that is covered with insulation has a lower amp rating than the equivalent bare wire because the electrical insulation also acts as a thermal insulation.

There is absolutely no need to quote a voltage drop per meter for a given AWG wire gauge at the maximum rated current.  There is no information to be gained there.  You figure in most cases, like installing wiring in a building, that the voltage drop in the wire will not be significant.

MileHigh

Smoky2:

You did not even come close to answering the questions "exactly."  Do whatever you want to do to answer the two questions.  I asked two simple questions and requested two simple answers.  Do the math if you want, but math is not required.

I am hearing a lot of parroting-like talk, but nothing coming from the self that shows you or Brad have an innate understanding about resonance when it comes to a wine glass.  We are not talking about liquid being in the glass either, just an ordinary empty wine glass.  Forget about this business of rubbing your finger along the wineglass also, that is a distraction and not even in the question.

200 years of physics is definitely not wrong, but it appears that you and Brad can't take all of the Google searches and actually apply that knowledge and crystallize it down to answering two simple questions about a resonating wine glass.

So are you parrots or can you think for yourselves and demonstrate that you truly understand?

MileHigh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhfugTnXJV4

Here is how you determine the resonance freq. of a wineglass.  This method has been known since the 70's.

***Note: Only Memorex tape should be used for this.  No other tape could ever have any chance of working.***  Well, that is what the advertisers say anyway.

Bill

You say tomato https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l05OuJ8GRs8