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### Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit  (Read 86744 times)

#### exnihiloest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 715
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2008, 04:39:34 PM »
...
POWER OUT = ( 17.5 Volts AC) ^2 / ( 150 ohms)  / 2 = 1.02 watts
...

Hi EMdevices

Refering to your pictures, the output voltage is not sinusoidal so your formula Pout = Vp^2 / 2*R can't be applied. You must use a true RMS power meter before claiming OU.
It is clear that only 24% of extra energy is in the margin of a wrong estimation due to a inaccurate formula.

A NPN transistor can be used with reversed polarity. It is a known fact in electronics. In this case the transistor characteristics such as gain are very different and poor but can be enough for sustaining an oscillation.
Dipoles (negative impedances) or a quadripoles (such transistors) with very weak gain just over 1 can be used to build oscillators.

Fran?ois

#### armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2008, 04:55:03 PM »
scale it up a bit...........to qualify for prize must be one watt of usable power.

#### duff

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 298
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2008, 05:06:15 PM »

EM,

Could you give us the number of turns you used on each winding + core type and size if you know it?

Congratulations - Great Work!

-Duff

#### nul-points

• Hero Member
• Posts: 995
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2008, 05:11:18 PM »
on the power calc issue - i think even a sinusoidal waveform needs an RMS factor in the equation, not just dividing the pk-pk by 2 - here in the UK the mains supply volts are nominal 240V RMS = approx 680V pk-pk

on the transistor polarity  issue - i was interested a while back when experimenting with ultra low-power oscillator circuits to find circuit designs which often had transistors connected with reverse polarity

anyway, it's interesting how circuit setup mistakes can sometimes lead to new discoveries, so don't be discouraged if this circuit turns out not to be OU yet

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

#### innovation_station

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5134
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2008, 05:16:23 PM »
scale it up a bit...........to qualify for prize must be one watt of usable power.

mine is scaled....  for low power out put or huge power output.....

currently when i break my contact my mot unit will return 1500v on each break i have 4 of thease in my unit so in 1 revalution i have over 6000v returning and the best part i mesure no draw from my source....

im not talking of current flow here this is my primary only ...   my 4 mot unit   the secondaryies are not there yet and are not nessarly needed depending on how you set it up

the universe is the limit ....  and we aint there yet ...

ist

wate till i switch amparage    then you see the light...   stand up 4 your rite!!

i put in... in 1 of my tests 5 amp @12vdc and i mesured over 20 amp peek upon return ....  needless to say it was more than 12vdc returning...

#### BEP

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1289
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2008, 06:05:02 PM »
@EMDevices

P=1.414*RMS
P=.5*P-P
P-P=2*P
RMS=.707*P

Assuming 'P' equals peak....

Power=Volts*Amps - Sort Of.

FYI for others: RMS stands for "Root Mean Square"  to find it, take your peak to peak
voltage and multiply by .707.
This assumes a sine wave.  And
RMS is .707 the Vpeak.

or take RMS voltage and divide by .707 to get back to the VP-P
This would get U to Vpeak.  Vp-p would be twice that.

I'm sure EM knows this but lets let him finish. Results good or bad, I can't wait! Either way this sounds like near unity.

#### EMdevices

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1146
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2008, 06:20:29 PM »
I guess the overunity prize has quite a few rules,  I had forgoten.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2157.0.html

Looks like I need 50 watts usuable output power and to build 3 units, among other things, and send them out for verification.  Ok,  I'll start the process of scaling it up soon.

EM

#### poynt99

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3582
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2008, 06:22:33 PM »
EMD's calculation is ok.

he used the "trick" where if you're lazy and don't want to calculate RMS from Vp, you just square the peak voltage and divide by double the load, which is why he divided by 2. confusing, but the same thing.

#### nul-points

• Hero Member
• Posts: 995
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2008, 08:41:52 PM »
interesting to note that the calculated COP for EM's inductor oscillator circuit is around the same figure for my switched-capacitor test circuit (my energy gain = 2.69Wsec/2.24Wsec = 1.2)

is it possible that there is some common feature of reactance which is connected with this overunity behaviour?

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

#### Frederic2k1

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 90
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2008, 09:38:05 PM »
@ EMDevices

Did you measured the resistor if it is really 150 Ohm ?

regards

#### aleks

• Hero Member
• Posts: 673
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2008, 11:09:27 PM »
"Singing" components is a trace of magneto or electro-striction. Note that acoustics can be in hypersonic range - in mega and giga hertz region, especially in crystals and metals. It's all magneto and electrostriction, even if not hearable.

Then again, your example of auto-varying sinewave frequency (kind of Earth's VLF spherics) is an example of "infinite sweep" where fedback Doppler shift happens - this can be produced if acoustics are at play, which is suitably "slow" to produce enough delay for such "effect".

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2008, 11:38:25 PM »
a)   I measure the current with an ampmeter in series with the battery.   Reading is 0.1 amps  (Voltage measured across the battery is 8.2 volts,  both are DC measurements)

Battery Type           Capacity (mAh)            Typical Drain (mA)
D                           12000                          200
C                            6000                           100
AA                          2000                           50
9 Volt                      500                             15

Are you sure about the 0.1 amps?  0.01 sounds better.

#### EMdevices

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1146
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2008, 12:29:32 AM »
Ok, here's the scope shots that I promised.

Figure 1,  my new arrangement.  (positive red wire is just hanging loose in this image)
Figure 2,  output waveform at the 148.7 ohm resistor   (yes I measured it, whoever asked)
Figure 3,  look at that smooth voltage at the battery terminals !!    (Someone tell Dr Stiffler to use the same approach.)
Figure 4,  schematic,  I had forgotten this morning when I posted, that I used two branches of LC to smooth it even further.

I see my Voltage is a bit smaller more like 7 volts.  I had used my digital meter to measure it while in operation. This means lower input power so a higher COP.  Also, the amperage is 0.1 amps,  I did a sanity check with a simple resistor across the 9 V battery, just to make sure I'm not off by a factor of ten like it happened last year.  Grumpy you're so optimistic.  LOL

EM

P.S.  The scope shots file names have no relation to what is on the schematic, just go by what I wrote above, Figure 1 is the top image and it goes down from there.  I think it's self explanatory, but just in case somebody gets confused.
duff,  the toroid has 3 sets of windings, each 15 turns.  My added coil for driving the transistor base has 8 turns. Not sure what core type it is.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 01:14:42 AM by EMdevices »

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2008, 03:49:56 AM »
is the battery warm or hot to the touch?

EDIT:

I ask because a 9v battery is not meant to provide that much current.

example:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gh9DLppHHW0J:www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm+9v+battery+0.1+amps&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

#### xee

• Full Member
• Posts: 111
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2008, 04:22:19 AM »
@ EMdevices
I know that you know this so I feel stupid pointing it out, but why are you using a 1/4 watt resistor? Resistors change value when they get hot (which they get when run over power rating). To get good results you should use at least a 2 watt resistor. You should get the same results in your circuit but the question of what is the actual value of the resistor would not come up.