Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit (Read 86746 times)

eldarion · « **Reply #75 on:** July 29, 2008, 03:03:04 AM »

Quote from: EMdevices on July 29, 2008, 02:54:58 AM

transistor: 2N4401, (from Radio Shack, box of 15)
Base Capacitor: 0.01J (not sure what that means)
Top capacitor for setting resonance: 47J
Capacitor in LC reactive branch, 220J

I guess there is a naming convention for these, I saw it somewhere once.

EM

Base capacitor: 0.01uF
Top capacitor: 47pF
LC reactive capacitor: 22pF
Tolerance: +/-5%

EMDevices, do you live near a AM, FM, TV, etc. transmitting tower? Also, I think your scope was set to 20ns--implying a frequency of 12.5MHz--is this correct?

Interesting to note that the 2N4401 is only rated for 600mA of current...

Thanks!

Eldarion

Yucca · « **Reply #76 on:** July 29, 2008, 03:29:12 AM »

Nice work EMdevices, thanks for sharing your findings

I am trying to replicate, have wound the toroid and I have all components except my transistor is 2N3904 (NPN HFE~100).

I will try and finish it tomorrow and then post info.

If it doesn't work or even oscillate, probably won't knowing my luck, then I'll get hold of the same transistor you have.

Regards, Fraser.

poynt99 · « **Reply #77 on:** July 29, 2008, 03:47:42 AM »

Quote from: eldarion on July 29, 2008, 03:03:04 AM

Base capacitor: 0.01uF
Top capacitor: 47pF
LC reactive capacitor: 22pF
Tolerance: +/-5%

EMDevices, do you live near a AM, FM, TV, etc. transmitting tower? Also, I think your scope was set to 20ns--implying a frequency of 12.5MHz--is this correct?

Interesting to note that the 2N4401 is only rated for 600mA of current...

Thanks!

Eldarion

i would say it might be 220p, not 22p

giantkiller · « **Reply #78 on:** July 29, 2008, 04:05:48 AM »

An inductor and a capacitor and a pulsed DC signal or spark gap are the only components that ring the bell.

--giantkiller. Wait for the rebound or reflection.

eldarion · « **Reply #79 on:** July 29, 2008, 04:13:10 AM »

Quote from: poynt99 on July 29, 2008, 03:47:42 AM

i would say it might be 220p, not 22p

3 numbers followed by a letter always means that the value is given in code. In this case, the code is 22pF with no zeroes following it.

pauldude000 · « **Reply #80 on:** July 29, 2008, 06:54:14 AM »

@all

CONCERNING CAP MARKINGS:

220J is 22pf

Using a one or two number marking, the number is directly in pf.

Using a three number marking, it is based upon the formula AB X 10^C in pf. In the case of a zero, then it is just AB.

For instance:

220J = 22pf
221J = 220pf
222J = 2200pf
etc....

103J would then be 10 X 10^3 pf, or 10,000pf or .01uf.
104J 100,000pf or .1uf

The end letter is the capacitors tolerance.

D = +/- 0.5 pf
F = +/- 1%
G = +/- 2%
H = +/- 3%
J = +/- 5%
K = +/- 10%
M = +/- 20%
P = +100% / -0%
Z = +80% / -20%

Now, some capacitors have a second number underneath the first, and it is voltage.

104J
50

This would then be a .1uf cap at 50v.

I hope this helps.

Paul Andrulis

hartiberlin · « **Reply #81 on:** July 29, 2008, 10:27:52 AM »

Hi EM,
please can you state the exact frequency,
where you get these OU results ?

Does it only happen at this one frequency ?

Please don?t change the toroid and the coils.

It might be a lucky coincidence, that your winding combination
has got you this.
Maybe the 4 coil windings exhibit some anti-Lenz characteristic ?

Better replicate the setup with exactly the same parts again and also try to build a third
bigger unit, to see, if you can scale up the effect in power.

Also, why do you put the 2 LC lowpassfilters filters in parallel with the battery, but not in front of the battery ?

Can you also use a real powersupply instead of a battery to power this circuit
or does the internal battery resistance play a role inside the circuit ?
What, if you put a 100 nF cap directly parallel with the battery together with a 100 uF electrolytic cap ?

Many thanks and looking forward to more tests.

Regards, Stefan.

aether22 · « **Reply #82 on:** July 29, 2008, 10:52:14 AM »

Get another battery and attach a DC motor, or buzzer, or attack it to various parts of the current circuit.

Based on my research I have established it IS possible to pull in EM fields and motors and buzzers are ideal, it could very well be the air core coils that do the receiving.

If doing such can boost the output then you should be closer to your goal as energy does not have to be lost from the loose coupled source.

BEP · « **Reply #83 on:** July 29, 2008, 12:49:34 PM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 29, 2008, 10:27:52 AM

Also, why do you put the 2 LC lowpassfilters filters in parallel with the battery, but not in front of the battery ?

I don't know what EM intended with the bandpass filter circuits but they aren't supressing RF in the battery. They are shorting RF around the battery. Same final effect in the battery.
I think the most important function for these LC circuits is they are completing the RF circuit where the battery was breaking it.
If he uses a power supply I suggest the LC's stay connected. At their resonant frequency their impedance is near zero.

Peterae · « **Reply #84 on:** July 29, 2008, 02:15:28 PM »

I think you will find he is using the coil and cap to get rid of the nasty noise which is across the battery, i am having the same problem, i have about 2 volts of crap across my battery, and it doesnt go by putting different cap across, he is trying to get a smooth dc across his battery because he can then be confident of the power consumption.
My rendition is running at about 22Mhz, but have not had much chance to refine cap values yet.

gyulasun · « **Reply #85 on:** July 29, 2008, 02:40:03 PM »

Quote from: Peterae on July 29, 2008, 02:15:28 PM

I think you will find he is using the coil and cap to get rid of the nasty noise which is across the battery, i am having the same problem, i have about 2 volts of crap across my battery, and it doesnt go by putting different cap across, he is trying to get a smooth dc across his battery because he can then be confident of the power consumption.
My rendition is running at about 22Mhz, but have not had much chance to refine cap values yet.

Hi Peter,

You sounds like you understand how to get rid of the 'noise' which is across the battery, then why do not you wind an air core coil of 4-6 turns of 0.8 or 1mm Cu (enameled) wire and connect it in series with 15-20pF capacitor to shunt the 2V crap across your battery?
To find the resonance of your series LC circuit at 22MHz, you simply stretch or squize the turns of the air core coil while you watch your scope showing the 2V crap till you see it starts reducing in amplitude. Using only capacitors across the battery usually helps in up to some MHz range, unless you buy special capacitors with very low ESR values at your frequency of choice. With the series resonant circuit you effectively improve the shunting effect of the capacitors, like EMdevices has showed. To make an air core coil, simply choose a cylindrical form of any hard material with 8-15mm diameter like a pencil or biro etc and wind 4-6 or 8 turns on it then fix it.
Sorry for this, I simply wished to ask the above question to help you stepping further on.

rgds, Gyula

Peterae · « **Reply #86 on:** July 29, 2008, 02:51:18 PM »

Hi Guyla

Thanks for the advice, yes i have not had anytime to do this yet, but will be next up after i have tried more transistors to get better operation, i have only had about 3 hours on the build last night and about an hour spent getting it to run.

Peter

spinner · « **Reply #87 on:** July 29, 2008, 04:05:56 PM »

So, did anyone prooved if this circuit's "OU" is just a measurement error, or there really is something strange happening?
Thanks!

Peterae · « **Reply #88 on:** July 29, 2008, 04:21:59 PM »

Too early for me to say yet, i need to get mine optimzed, and get the noise on the battery cancelled, plus i am using a diferent core as i dont have anything like EM.
As soon as i get some numbers i will post these, but it will be some days, as i have a buisness to run.

Peter

xee · « **Reply #89 on:** July 29, 2008, 05:41:30 PM »

This worked for me on a similar circuit to get rid of RF in battery. The advantage is that it does not require tuning. I have not tried it with this circuit.

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Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit (Read 86746 times)

eldarion

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Yucca

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poynt99

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giantkiller

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eldarion

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pauldude000

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hartiberlin

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aether22

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BEP

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Peterae

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gyulasun

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Peterae

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spinner

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Peterae

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xee

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