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### Author Topic: Mysterious Resonant Circuit  (Read 86745 times)

#### xee

• Full Member
• Posts: 111
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2008, 06:57:01 PM »
@ EMdevices

Hmmm, most things increase in resistance with temperature. I checked a 75 watt light bulb and it was 14 ohms without power and of course it is about 200 ohms with 120 volts powered.

watts = E^2/R =  120^2/200 = 72

If I did my math right, a 150 ohm carbon resistor will be about 190 ohms when its internal temperature is about 800 C.

#### EMdevices

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1146
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2008, 11:10:34 PM »
@xee,  maybe your right,  I think I got my light bulb measurements backwards.  I did this a while ago.  Good point to check then, I'll follow the advice and go buy a higher power rating resistor.

@grumpy,  I checked it just with the 150 ohm resistor shorted across the 9 volt battery, and it draws around  0.4 amps, and yes things heat up quick, even the battery.  Actually, letting the circuit run for a while (I tried about a minute)  heats the resistor up really good, and I guess the battery warms up a bit too.

gyulasun, thanks for the suggestions

hoppy,  the Vbe voltage swings negative to -10 Volts or so, as can be seen in the scope shots I posted.  I hope nothing will degrade, but it might.  The transistor is certainly operating in a non conventional way.

#### nul-points

• Hero Member
• Posts: 995
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2008, 12:26:11 AM »

EM measured the load res at 148.7R right?  shorting the load res direct across the 9V battery reads 0.4A on his meter

9v / 148.7R = .0605mA

time to start checking components and meter again, very carefully

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

#### nul-points

• Hero Member
• Posts: 995
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2008, 12:32:22 AM »
...in fact, if the battery is still at around 6.25V, as shown on the trace, then 6.25/148.7 = .042A

@EM

just a thought
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4147
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2008, 12:51:00 AM »

EM measured the load res at 148.7R right?  shorting the load res direct across the 9V battery reads 0.4A on his meter

9v / 148.7R = .0605mA

time to start checking components and meter again, very carefully

all the best
sandy

Hi Sandy,

You happen to have a typo:  9 / 148.7 = .0605 Amper , ok?  (you wrote mA)
Putting it in mA,  it is 60.5mA.

Otherwise I agree with you.

rgds, Gyula

#### Bruce_TPU

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1437
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2008, 02:17:13 AM »
{snip}

I've found an excellent way to smooth battery RF voltage fluctuations to where they are below 0.4 volts,  and the following modified circuit illustrates the modification.    (series L + C, when tuned have inpedance = 0 )

Also, I now have an almost perfect sinewave at the output, of 17.5 Volts Amplitude across the 150 ohm load resistor.

Here's the power calculations:

POWER IN  =  ( 8.2 Volts DC )  x  ( 0.1 Amp DC) = 0.82 watts

POWER OUT = ( 17.5 Volts AC) ^2 / ( 150 ohms)  / 2 = 1.02 watts

EXCESS POWER =  (1.02 - 0.82) / 0.82 = 0.24 = 24 % extra energy

COP = 1.02 / 0.82 = 1.24

{snip}

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2008, 03:10:30 AM »
Try putting a resistor accross your 9v bat of about 80 ohms and if the bat gets hot - something ain't right.

#### nul-points

• Hero Member
• Posts: 995
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2008, 08:29:57 AM »
thanks, Gyula - i managed to wake up in my follow-on email
(with the example of a battery voltage at 6.25V giving 0.042A thro' 148.7R)

i'm very interested to hear if EM's inductor-based circuit can be confirmed as showing the same level of COP as my switched-cap test circuit (1.2 approx)

we both have very simple (and very different) circuits but both have ferrite-cored coils, so i'm wondering if it's the coils in our circuits which are tapping the 'free energy' source?

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8093
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2008, 12:15:42 PM »
Hi EMdevices,
good work,
as what the others said, 150 Ohms at 9 Volts should give:
9Volts / 150 Ohm= 60 mA.

Well, if you can scale up your circuit and it produces at least 3 Watts
of free energy, then you can apply for the overunity prize.

Regards, Stefan.

#### EMdevices

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1146
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2008, 02:40:16 PM »
xee had me worried about the resistor changing it's value when heated up,Â  so I meaused its resistance by itself while I heated it up,Â Â  with a magnifyer lens in direct sunlight,Â  hot hot hot....Â  and guess what,Â  the value bearly changed from 147.5 to perhaps 147.7, or some insignificant amount like that.

well,Â  good news,Â  I got better results now:

Power Input = ( 6.0 Volts ) x ( 0.09 Amps) = 0.54 watts

Power Output = 0.5Â  *Â  (17 Volts_peak )^2Â  / (148 ohms) = 0.976 watts

COP = 0.976 / 0.54 = 1.80

So, nearly 80 % more energy out.Â Â  And I have been rounding the numbers up or down to be conservative, for example the voltage seemed to be more like 17.5 Volts, so I used 17.0 volts, and the amperage reading was changing between 0.08 and 0.09 amps, so it's probably 0.085 so I used 0.09 amps to be safe.

For those scrutenizing the number I might have made a mistake of writing 0.4 instead of 0.04,Â  also, the battery I'm using is depleating as I'm experimenting with it.Â  It came from the fire alarm after it started beeping that the battery was low, so then I took it out and have been using it for a few months now with different experiments, so you can see why it's voltage is droping so low.Â  The circuit seems to be more efficient as the input voltage drops.Â  I still get around 17 volts output which is amazing.

EM

#### duff

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 298
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2008, 03:46:14 PM »
EM,

So as the impedance of the battery increases, the COP increases.

Have you calculated or measured the input impedance of the oscillator?

Do you think the COP you are seeing is frequency dependant?

-Duff

#### innovation_station

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5134
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2008, 03:51:38 PM »
you all seen this long ago im sure...  i sure have   just never bothered to build it

however im sure it works along the same lines.....

almost the same unit em....

the joule thief

so what if you took the output of one of thease units  and used it as your 9v supply.....  or in place of it ...  what will be your return  or your COP

ist

even better vid....

#### xee

• Full Member
• Posts: 111
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2008, 04:11:46 PM »
@ EMdevices
It is the internal resistor temperature that matters, but I doubt it gets to 800 C so it is probably not the resistor. The only other thing I can think of that you might be doing wrong is your calculations. They seem to be correct. But if 17 volts is your peak to peak voltage instead of your peak voltage as you stated, then the power out would only be 0.24 watts.

Vpp = 17
Vp = 17/2 = 8.5
Vrms = Vp / SQR(2) = 6.01   for perfect sine wave
watts = (Vrms)^2 / R = 6.01^2 / 150 = 0.24

Is your peak to peak voltage really 34 volts?  If so, I can't think of any reason why you are not OU.

#### EMdevices

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1146
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2008, 04:35:36 PM »
Quote
Is your peak to peak voltage really 34 volts?

yes xee,Â  it is and you can see it in the scope shots I posted.

Look, even if we get picky and say the waveform might not be perfectly sinusoidal (and shape matters), so let's assume an even lower voltage, let's say 15 volts peak amplitude, then

Pout = 0.5 * (15 volts)^2 / 147 = 0.765 watts
Pin = 0.54 watts
COP = 0.765 / 0.54 = 1.40

so we are still way into OU teritory, with 40% more energy output.

@all, I'll report more after I try to close the loop.Â  I will stop by Radioshack and try and buy a rectifyer bridge.Â  Hopefully it doesn't eat up to much power.

EM

#### eldarion

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 326
##### Re: Mysterious Resonant Circuit
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2008, 06:08:12 PM »
@all, I'll report more after I try to close the loop.  I will stop by Radioshack and try and buy a rectifyer bridge.  Hopefully it doesn't eat up to much power.

You don't want to do that--a standard bridge rectifier is designed to run at 60Hz and will chew up all your output power at higher frequencies.  Buy some 1N4148 diodes instead and make a bridge rectifier from them.

Just my \$0.02--I want to see this work (it has a lot of  similarity to Bob Boyce's original toroid experiment; well 1/3 of it anyway...

EDIT: Could you do one small test for me?  I can't help but notice that your setup is completely isolated from Earth ground--if you connect the negative lead of your circuit to Earth ground does the effect remain, diminish, or completely disappear?  I have been wondering for some time if the fact that my bench is grounded could be destroying the very effects I built it to look for...
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 06:41:12 PM by eldarion »