Author Topic: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity ! (Read 430032 times)

hansvonlieven · « **Reply #855 on:** November 19, 2007, 09:40:23 AM »

@NssB,

What more do you expect me to do, I told him the stuff is dangerous and some of the things it does.

If he wants to work with it he will check it out, apart from the fact you do not purchase it at the Woolworth delicatessen counter. He will get proper warnings about how to handle it when he gets the stuff and he will probably have to sign a form saying he understands the dangers.

What would you want me to do? Not mention it in the first place??

Political correctness gone mad.

Hans von Lieven

NssB · « **Reply #856 on:** November 19, 2007, 11:23:15 AM »

@Hans

lol....not quite PC gone mad, and perhaps I was a bit harsh. I guess I'm just thinking about the folk with parents who keep dangerous chemicals in the shed for a rainy day

"Hydro...blah de blah.....wait a minute.....that bottle dad has......hmmm.........lets go see what it can do to these carbonised...."

OK, its unlikely.....but ya know

NssB

ResinRat2 · « **Reply #857 on:** November 19, 2007, 12:43:51 PM »

OK boys let's all kiss and make-up

lol.

Looking over the options so far I think Hans' idea of electroplating a brass mesh is probably the safest to do.

I think I will go in this direction unless something better pops up.

Thanks for your opinions everyone.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #858 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:43:45 PM »

Quote from: hansvonlieven on November 17, 2007, 04:49:34 AM

G'day Dave,

You would be far better off to make your electrodes up from brass mesh and get it electroplated, more bang for buck!

Hans

How can we avoid the platinum plating ?
It is very expensive.

Has anyone tried graphite beads with "sucked in" colloidal silver ?
You could pour graphite beads into colloidal silver water and the beads
will get "coated" a bit with silver atoms.
Depends which concentration your colloidal silver water has.
Use a colloidal silver electrolyser as used in health application and
let it run for at least 1 hour, then you have really good amount of silver atoms.
If you then pour graphite beads into the colloidal silver water, the silver atoms
will clogg onto the high surface area of the graphite beads and when
H2 gas enter this area it will be split up into ions.

This should then be able to split the H2 and O2 gas into
conducting and voltage generating H3O+ and OH- ions
and charge up the graphite beads and graphite rods.

Surely you need 2 containers with graphite beads,
one for the H2 and one for the O2 gas and
also need an electrolyte like NaCl or NaOH in water dissolved.
The 2 containersmust be connected via a ions conducting bridge,
so a handkerchief of saltwater or diaphragma will do.
Then stick one graphite rod into each graphite beads container and you
have your fuel cell and voltage at the graphite rods.

Sorry, did not yet have time to test it myself.

Regards, Stefan.

ResinRat2 · « **Reply #859 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:55:51 PM »

Hi Stefan,

I have 500ppm colloidal silver solution.

What kind of graphite rods are you talking about. Is this something they sell in an automobile parts store, or someplace else. Perhaps you have a link on the internet I can follow to purchase them.

I could even test it in my reactor.

Thank you for your input.

hansvonlieven · « **Reply #860 on:** November 19, 2007, 11:43:49 PM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 05:43:45 PM

How can we avoid the platinum plating ?
It is very expensive.

Not true Stefan,

I used o get a lot of rhodium plating done (same price as platinum) and it cost only marginally more than gold plating.

The trick is to find someone, preferably a smaller company, that is prepared to do small quantities. We are nor talking about big electrodes, say a meter long or so, that would be a problem since platinum plating is usually done by companies that plate jewellery and their tanks are not huge.

I would be surprised if it cost more than five or ten dollars an electrode if you have five or ten done at the same time. This is quite affordable especially when some people charge 10 dollars a foot for platinum plated wire.

Hans von Lieven

walterj7 · « **Reply #861 on:** November 20, 2007, 01:04:50 AM »

Hi RR2 (Dave),

I talked to www.Alfa.Com to day about buying their hexachloroplatinate plating solution. They have a product number 40177 with a description
"Dihydrogen hexachloroplatinate(IV) solution, Pt 20% (cont. Pt)" http://www.alfa.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0E24B64190008400C032031+ALF+ENG. apx $97.50 was today's price for the .5 gram solution (about 3 grams total solution).
They told me there was also a HazMat charge of either $11 (2day) or $17 (overnight-1day) from DHL as well as regular shipping fee.
The only other requirement is they only sell to a company and require payment via the company credit card.

Simple solution to a not to complex issue would be as here, I don't know about you, but here if you have a bank relationship you can open an account in a business name and fund it for a few hundred dollars and have them issue a Visa (Debit/Credit) card in that business name. Use that Card to purchase your hexachloroplatinate and be your on your way...

Regards,

Walterj

ResinRat2 · « **Reply #862 on:** November 20, 2007, 02:00:03 AM »

Quote from: walterj7 on November 20, 2007, 01:04:50 AM

Simple solution to a not to complex issue would be as here, I don't know about you, but here if you have a bank relationship you can open an account in a business name and fund it for a few hundred dollars and have them issue a Visa (Debit/Credit) card in that business name. Use that Card to purchase your hexachloroplatinate and be your on your way...

I am going to say no on this. Getting a business account under a non-registered bogus business name just to side-step federal hazardous material control laws doesn't sound like a good option any day of the week. In fact, it sounds like a criminal act.

NO THANKS!!!!

hansvonlieven · « **Reply #863 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:20:06 AM »

G'day Walter,

hexachloroplatinate plating solution is only a small part of the story. Electroplating is an art, actually quite a difficult one. To get a satisfactory coating without adhesion problems and pinholes is not as easy as it sounds. The metal has to be prepared meticulously before proper plating can take place. The chemicals required to do this are as difficult to obtain as the plating solution.

Even then, to create the properly buffered solution and to have the correct current going through is not simple either.

It is OK to do this as the science teacher suggested and it will work for a while, until the plating peels off or the electrolyte gets contaminated through the pinholes. This is not a job for amateurs, believe me.

Better to get it done by someone who knows what they are doing.

Besides, by the time you get all the stuff together you need you will be far more out of pocket than sending it to a plater in the first place.

Hans von Lieven

walterj7 · « **Reply #864 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:21:37 AM »

I think you should think first before you speak of things you know little or nothing about.

On this subject I'm something of an expert. I've been in and out of business since I was 16 years old.

Not to sure what's bogus about declaring your R&D activities a tax deductible activity (business expense et all) but it's defiantly NOT BOGUS or criminal.
A business is defined by American Heritage Dictionary as:
a NOUN:
1. 1. The occupation, work, or trade in which a person is engaged: ie: the wholesale food business.
2. A specific occupation or pursuit: the best designer in the business.
2. Commercial, industrial, or professional dealings: new systems now being used in business.
3. A commercial enterprise or establishment: bought his uncle's business.

What you and others have been doing (research and development) in the world of Hydrogen surly qualifies as Business Activities.

The income or profit component (which I assume you identify as missing) is NOT any requirement for a business.

Plenty of Business loose money regularly and sometime for years at a time. The IRS allows you to loose money for 5 years straight and still be called a for profit business. If you go the 6th year loosing money then the IRS declares you a NOT for Profit Business.

But your actives are considered Business Activities, just NOT for Profit Actives.

Point in fact (I'm pretty sure) that's how and why Dingus was forced out of doing hydrogen activities at his rental property.

In most states of the united states all you need do is declare your actives to be a business. Maybe file a DBA (Doing Business As) certificate if you call your self for business activies by any name other than your real name, like "resinrat2 R&D". But this is NOT required when you use your own name ie: David xxx Hydrogen Research.
And BTW if you did have to file a certificate to do business as and don't, all that happens is that you can not defend your self in a civil (Law suit). Your business is NOT declaired Invalid, Bogus or Deceptive etc. (check with your lawyer about legal matters before you give legal opinions). To collect money, i.e. charge for your actives you may or NOT have to obtain an occupational license as your jurisdiction requires. But this is, if required at all, would only be to engage in business with others

Also doing business interstate or over the web in most instances, with the exception of legislative restrictions (such as drugs and gambling, EPA etc) is NOT licensed or regulated inter-states. The States have Reciprocal laws allowing trade between them.

(BTW/ who wants to circumvent the HazMat laws? All you have to do is pay the $11 or $17 hazmat fee and keep an accurate log of your disposition of the materials!)
Yeah it all sounds to hard for someone who wants to change the world, yeah right!!!!...

But most importantly I resent the implication and out right accusation of dishonesty, fraud and feel pretty disgusted about the whole thing of even trying to source the material for you.

Definitely with very little respect left,

Walterj

hansvonlieven · « **Reply #865 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:48:07 AM »

Quote from: walterj7 on November 20, 2007, 03:21:37 AM

I think you should think first before you speak of things you know little or nothing about.

On this subject I'm something of an expert. I've been in and out of business since I was 16 years old.

Not to sure what's bogus about declaring your R&D activities a tax deductible activity (business expense et all) but it's defiantly NOT BOGUS or criminal.
A business is defined by American Heritage Dictionary as:
a NOUN:
1. 1. The occupation, work, or trade in which a person is engaged: ie: the wholesale food business.
2. A specific occupation or pursuit: the best designer in the business.
2. Commercial, industrial, or professional dealings: new systems now being used in business.
3. A commercial enterprise or establishment: bought his uncle's business.

What you and others have been doing (research and development) in the world of Hydrogen surly qualifies as Business Activities.

The income or profit component (which I assume you identify as missing) is NOT any requirement for a business.

Plenty of Business loose money regularly and sometime for years at a time. The IRS allows you to loose money for 5 years straight and still be called a for profit business. If you go the 6th year loosing money then the IRS declares you a NOT for Profit Business.

But your actives are considered Business Activities, just NOT for Profit Actives.

Point in fact (I'm pretty sure) that's how and why Dingus was forced out of doing hydrogen activities at his rental property.

In most states of the united states all you need do is declare your actives to be a business. Maybe file a DBA (Doing Business As) certificate if you call your self for business activies by any name other than your real name, like "resinrat2 R&D". But this is NOT required when you use your own name ie: David xxx Hydrogen Research.
And BTW if you did have to file a certificate to do business as and don't, all that happens is that you can not defend your self in a civil (Law suit). Your business is NOT declaired Invalid, Bogus or Deceptive etc. (check with your lawyer about legal matters before you give legal opinions). To collect money, i.e. charge for your actives you may or NOT have to obtain an occupational license as your jurisdiction requires. But this is, if required at all, would only be to engage in business with others

Also doing business interstate or over the web in most instances, with the exception of legislative restrictions (such as drugs and gambling, EPA etc) is NOT licensed or regulated inter-states. The States have Reciprocal laws allowing trade between them.

(BTW/ who wants to circumvent the HazMat laws? All you have to do is pay the $11 or $17 hazmat fee and keep an accurate log of your disposition of the materials!)
Yeah it all sounds to hard for someone who wants to change the world, yeah right!!!!...

But most importantly I resent the implication and out right accusation of dishonesty, fraud and feel pretty disgusted about the whole thing of even trying to source the material for you.

Definitely with very little respect left,

Walterj

WOW Walter,

That's a little over the top isn't it?

With NO respect left

Hans von Lieven

Super God · « **Reply #866 on:** November 20, 2007, 04:11:47 AM »

I'd rather fork out the 50$ and have someone professional do it, that way I'm guaranteed a good finished product in the end. Just my two cents.

-Brian

ResinRat2 · « **Reply #867 on:** November 20, 2007, 04:40:30 AM »

Quote from: walterj7 on November 20, 2007, 03:21:37 AM

I think you should think first before you speak of things you know little or nothing about.
On this subject I'm something of an expert. I've been in and out of business since I was 16 years old.

You are right, I know little or nothing about it. This is why I asked my Accountant about it, and was told to NOT do this. That is why I rejected the whole idea.

If you have no respect for me left then so be it. I am glad you are an expert on the subject. I am not, and that is why I am taking a different route.

I am just a business-ignorant lowly Senior Polymer Research Chemist. A dumb-schmuck who knows how to design, research and operate systhesis reactions. No need for any respect at all thank you very much; but business-wise I am not. So that is why I stay away from anything that sounds (to a dumb shmuck like me) shady or illegal, whether I am wrong or not.

In all honesty, it did sound illegal to me; and I was told to avoid it. Also, I don't trust ANYONE I don't know on the internet. I don't know you, and I don't know your motives. If you don't like that then fine with me.

Now, if you will excuse me, I am getting back to work.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #868 on:** November 20, 2007, 05:05:41 AM »

Hi Walter, Hans and Dave,
please calm down.
I think this was just a misunderstanding between you.

Well, as the platinum is so expensive it will be good to look for
an substitute.

Graphite with the right "coating" seems to be one.
We only have to find the right coating material which
can split the H2 and O2 to H3O+ and OH- ions and charge up this
way the graphite electrodes.
Colloidal silver might be one coating material.

Here is one Ebay auction where they sell graphite rods:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8280156070

and here another one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200109704468

You must remove the copperfoil on these..

Then you put them into colloidal silver long enough
( at least an hour I would say and then let them dry.

If you would use colloidal platinum this would even be the best,
but maybe silver will also work.
Maybe we even find cheaper metals or (catalyst oxides..)

Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #869 on:** November 20, 2007, 05:17:28 AM »

Maybe also pressed activated charcoal pellets might work if they
are coated in colloidal silver solution, but to get the conduction
higher you would need a really heavy colloidal silver solution.

Here is an Ebay auction of it not too expensive:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110195784945

Put then into the center of these colloidal silver plated charcoal pellets
a graphite rod as the electrode and put the H2 and O2 gas beneath these charcoal
pellets in a NaCL- or NaOH -water solution.
Then it should split.

Study the concept of supercapacitors and you will see,
how the ions will charge up the graphite.

News:

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Author Topic: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity ! (Read 430032 times)

hansvonlieven

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NssB

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