Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube?? (Read 1338114 times)

RunningBare · « **Reply #2010 on:** February 01, 2008, 11:01:46 PM »

Quote from: Yadaraf on February 01, 2008, 10:30:58 PM

Perhaps mounting the stators to someting less rigid --

Time to loosen up?

Cheers,

Yada ..
.

I concur, alsetalokin had specified that his stator bearings were not rigid and that they rattled slightly, a couple of theories have been put forward such as the effect on angular momentum and the stator bearings binding at just the right moment on each cycle.

MeggerMan · « **Reply #2011 on:** February 01, 2008, 11:19:06 PM »

Omni,
I have not ordered the 18mm HDPE sheet yet, got all the magnets, I have some important work to get out of the way before I can play.
I'm gradually building a shopping list of materials I need to complete this project and other peoples successes and failures are helping a little. Things are looking promising though with the news from Tubinator and the lego motor, although I not so convinced about the lego motor.
Regards
Rob

Omnibus · « **Reply #2012 on:** February 01, 2008, 11:34:30 PM »

@MeggerMan,

The Lego motor is the really interesting one because it's a self-starter. The motor we're drying to replicate is based on the same idea as the Lego and other motors but seems simpler to get it to work (seems that fewer parameters are at play to adjust). As for @Turbinator, it's really interesting to see what he's observed but recall early on I also observed something similar (shorter than @Turbinator's several minutes but stators were not held by hand). @CLaNZeR also observed a similar effect and even showed evidence of it. Our goal, however, is to see sustained acceleration for longer periods and I've focused my attention on replicating the motor in the video exactly (the one I reported encouraging results with differs in that its rotor magnets are rectangular, for instance). Now, as I've said a number of times, aside from the exact mases of the rotor and stators (I think stator mass of 10g is achieved) I'd really like to see @alsetalokin show us the magnetic induction of the rotor as well as of the stators as a function of their angle of rotation. Thus, once we have adjusted the masses properly and the magnetic induction profiles the likelihood of success would increase, wouldn't it?

Lakes · « **Reply #2013 on:** February 02, 2008, 02:11:55 AM »

Does anyone else think that the Lego motor video is being played backward?

geodan · « **Reply #2014 on:** February 02, 2008, 02:16:20 AM »

Quote from: Lakes on February 02, 2008, 02:11:55 AM

Does anyone else think that the Lego motor video is being played backward?

yeah... now that you mention it... I think that it's saying "The Walrus is Al"

blue_energy · « **Reply #2015 on:** February 02, 2008, 02:38:53 AM »

Quote from: geodan on February 02, 2008, 02:16:20 AM

Quote from: Lakes on February 02, 2008, 02:11:55 AM
Does anyone else think that the Lego motor video is being played backward?
yeah... now that you mention it... I think that it's saying "The Walrus is Al"

ROFLMAO!

Bruce_TPU · « **Reply #2016 on:** February 02, 2008, 03:08:12 AM »

Hello All,

I have purchased this evening a micrometer, to be ready when my newest rotor arrives. Hank picked up his, Jason's and mine today and mailed them off. He weighed them before he did. Weight without any magnets or bearing:
258 grams.

BUT... If I am not mistaken, Al's was weighed with the rotor magnets at 258 grams, or without?

Also, if someone good with photographs, can zoom and give us the bearing number or have Al give us the bearing number, that would be very helpful. Please email me the cleared and zoomed photo and I can show it to my bearing company here in town and see if he can match it up just by the looks of the underside. These guys know their bearings!

(All pun intended.)

I will test with the N35's and N42's, while I order the same N38's as Omnibus.

Cheers all,

Bruce

Bruce_TPU · « **Reply #2017 on:** February 02, 2008, 03:08:46 AM »

Forum Snafu. $:-\$

Omnibus · « **Reply #2018 on:** February 02, 2008, 04:23:12 AM »

@Bruce_TPU,

Yesterday I was reading somewhere in @CLaNZeR's forum a citation from @alsetalokin stating that the 258g of the rotor refer to the HDPE part plus the magnets plus the shaft holder without the weight of the shaft. Unfortunately, I can't find that quote now. The weight of the rotor may be one of the crucial parameters so we must be very sure it's the right one.

My rotor being 303g with the magnets and the bearings is 45g too heavy compared to the original. About 31g out of these extra 45g is due to the fact that the diameter of my rotor is 147mm while the thickness is 20mm (and not the required 144mm and 18mm). The remaining extra 14g can be removed the way @alsetalokin has done by lathing out a groove on the bottom side of rotor. I am going to send my rotor back to the machine shop for these seemingly cosmetic but maybe very important adjustment but it'd be very good if we can hear straight from the horse's mouth first.

Also, no matter what trimming we may do we must be sure that the distance, radially, between the outer surface of rotor and outer surface of stators is exactly 5mm. Recall that @alsetalokin was emphasizing that quite a bit.

Bruce_TPU · « **Reply #2019 on:** February 02, 2008, 11:05:34 AM »

Quote from: RunningBare on February 01, 2008, 02:23:27 PM

Fingers crossed guys and gals

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60180&page=2#Item_5
Quote
Turbinator wrote:

Without going into too much detail, I had a sustained rotor yesterday evening while fooling around around with the stators; The stators were not rotating but oscillating slightly (and with a rod mag attached to each stator - like i said i was tinkering!), the rotor was hand spooled and left to run down while i was doing something else..... strangely it held at around 300rpm. I will investigate further and keep a camera handy.

I tried the above experiment tonight with my wrong sized rotor. 9 mm distance from stator to rotor edge. Rotor 3/8" shorter than Jason's Cad drawing.

Did the above test. About 5 hours worth. I am waiting for a tach to arrive to confirm. I saw and heard the rotor accelerate almost every time. Sometimes for about 2 seconds, sometimes longer. Different configs gave me different results. Sometimes very long steady runs but no acceleration and sometimes accelerations. The first time it happened, I yelled. It scared me and I scared the wife! LOL It sounds like a little turbine. The mags shake first, and it feels like a pulse in the fingers holding the stators. And then you hear the reving sound for a couple of seconds and then it drops out.

Some runs caught two and three accelerations, at different RPM's, but that does not always happen, just random.

The rotor LOVE'S to see North and south looking at it at the same time. I had some wild configurations. And had Jason on the phone for hours. Rotor Magnets are N35's. Stator mags per spec. Cylinder mags on top of stators are N42's.

Experiment with what you have. Make sure your rotor mags are weaker. Hold the stator between the dampers and the one on the left. You can try all three once you get the hang of it. Spin the rotor clockwise very fast and off you go. You will know when "it" catches (what ever it is!)

Cylinder mags on Stator can face any way, as long as North or South are looking directly to the center rotor.

Have fun. I did. I will post a video when I find a friend with a vid camera, so be patient please. Nothing self sustained, though I did get some mighty long runs.

All of you naysayers are doomed! LOL

Cheers all,

Bruce

Yadaraf · « **Reply #2020 on:** February 02, 2008, 11:32:41 AM »

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 02, 2008, 11:05:34 AM

Quote from: RunningBare on February 01, 2008, 02:23:27 PM
Fingers crossed guys and gals

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60180&page=2#Item_5
Quote
Turbinator wrote:

Without going into too much detail, I had a sustained rotor yesterday evening while fooling around around with the stators; The stators were not rotating but oscillating slightly (and with a rod mag attached to each stator - like i said i was tinkering!), the rotor was hand spooled and left to run down while i was doing something else..... strangely it held at around 300rpm. I will investigate further and keep a camera handy.

I tried the above experiment tonight with my wrong sized rotor. 9 mm distance from stator to rotor edge. Rotor 3/8" shorter than Jason's Cad drawing.

Did the above test. About 5 hours worth. I am waiting for a tach to arrive to confirm. I saw and heard the rotor accelerate almost every time. Sometimes for about 2 seconds, sometimes longer. Different configs gave me different results. Sometimes very long steady runs but no acceleration and sometimes accelerations. The first time it happened, I yelled. It scared me and I scared the wife! LOL It sounds like a little turbine. The mags shake first, and it feels like a pulse in the fingers holding the stators. And then you hear the reving sound for a couple of seconds and then it drops out.

Some runs caught two and three accelerations, at different RPM's, but that does not always happen, just random.

The rotor LOVE'S to see North and south looking at it at the same time. I had some wild configurations. And had Jason on the phone for hours. Rotor Magnets are N35's. Stator mags per spec. Cylinder mags on top of stators are N42's.

Experiment with what you have. Make sure your rotor mags are weaker. Hold the stator between the dampers and the one on the left. You can try all three once you get the hang of it. Spin the rotor clockwise very fast and off you go. You will know when "it" catches (what ever it is!)

Cylinder mags on Stator can face any way, as long as North or South are looking directly to the center rotor.

Have fun. I did. I will post a video when I find a friend with a vid camera, so be patient please. Nothing self sustained, though I did get some mighty long runs.

All of you naysayers are doomed! LOL

Cheers all,

Bruce

Bruce,

Mega KUDOS!

Cheers,

Yada ..
.

Grimer · « **Reply #2021 on:** February 02, 2008, 12:36:32 PM »

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 02, 2008, 11:05:34 AM

... Make sure your rotor mags are weaker.

I think that is an important point. In effect the Stator magnets are the H field and the Rotor magnets the B field. AGW is an indication that there is a B power loop being generated from environmental H field.

And congratulations. You are right to be confident.

vipond50 · « **Reply #2022 on:** February 02, 2008, 01:50:49 PM »

@ Bruce
Sounds like your having a blast..... Kewl

I took the sacrificial Rotor why down in mass (247.4 Grams loaded). Think I went to much, so going to work up another one later today and try to hold the Mass to 258 Grams loaded.
Keep having fun and I hope U have a run away

Regards
Bill

hdeasy · « **Reply #2023 on:** February 02, 2008, 02:08:27 PM »

@Bruce_TPU

Excellent! Keep us posted and dying to see the video. I agree it should be the rotor magnets that are weaker so they have some movement on the BH plot. I and some other simulators are seeing KE gain with this BH alone AND moving AGW stator. BH + static stator gives no gain. Lag doesn't seem important - it's all about the BH movement: ideally linear and in first quadrant.

CLaNZeR · « **Reply #2024 on:** February 02, 2008, 02:12:11 PM »

Nice one Bruce.

I think it is obvious to people building the rigs that there is indeed a weird effect going on here and also that people that have built their Rigs as close as they can to AL's original are not finding instant sucess.
So as Bruce has shown it is defo worth playing with different configs as you will learn and get a feel for the AGW latch and how it works.

Must admit I had more success using those cheap Stator Magnets and if I get time may drag that Rig back out and have a play.

For now I am working away during the week again and very limited time at the weekend to play, but my main concern to me at the moment is the 1/2 bearings I am using are way too tight and it is a struggle to get the AGW compared to when I was using the really loose 3mm RC bearings.

A couple of guys over at my forums are using 1/2 bearings from Fishing reels, so today I am going to try and get some from a fishing shop.

Still want to get the Wind Down times done with the new Dampners but feel I will be wasting my time if the bearings are crap.

Good stuff guys and well done.

I am now confused on the Sizes and have been trying to get a definate spec that people are now working with as this seems to have changed over the last week since I have been away.

Hopefully I will get some new stuff up over the weekend.

Cheers

Sean.

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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube?? (Read 1338114 times)

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