Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube?? (Read 1333873 times)

cub3 · « **Reply #1995 on:** February 01, 2008, 05:43:00 AM »

Quote from: Omnibus on February 01, 2008, 04:57:17 AM

The more I'm looking at my rig the more the old problem seems to be popping up--as many have already said, the weights, especially the rotor weight may be the crucial factor, now that we have the proper magnets (I hope so). Not so much the bearings but the weights and the interplay of the fields due to the mutual disposition of the magnets. But then, again, why didn't @Craigy and @CLaNZeR get positive results with their seemingly lighter rotors. Could it be they were too light? Anybody know what their rotors' exact weight was?

One tends to think that a flywheel effect should be utilized but the flywheel may be just too heavy and won't allow the effect itself to emerge.

ALL,
As previously mentioned.

This place needs a database (spreadsheet of Al's. / and everyones initial & subsequent dimensional & constructional modifications, with a time line showing further changes, results etc. Most important.

Regards
Den

vipond50 · « **Reply #1996 on:** February 01, 2008, 06:10:58 AM »

Quote from: cub3 on February 01, 2008, 05:43:00 AM

Quote from: Omnibus on February 01, 2008, 04:57:17 AM
The more I'm looking at my rig the more the old problem seems to be popping up--as many have already said, the weights, especially the rotor weight may be the crucial factor, now that we have the proper magnets (I hope so). Not so much the bearings but the weights and the interplay of the fields due to the mutual disposition of the magnets. But then, again, why didn't @Craigy and @CLaNZeR get positive results with their seemingly lighter rotors. Could it be they were too light? Anybody know what their rotors' exact weight was?

One tends to think that a flywheel effect should be utilized but the flywheel may be just too heavy and won't allow the effect itself to emerge.

ALL,
As previously mentioned.

This place needs a database (spreadsheet of Al's. / and everyones initial & subsequent dimensional & constructional modifications, with a time line showing further changes, results etc. Most important.

Regards
Den

Hi Den
Well your idea

, which is good , put it together and i am sure others will add or make available the data.

Cheers
B.

PolyMatrix · « **Reply #1997 on:** February 01, 2008, 07:52:47 AM »

Check the shadow of the main rotor in @Al's video. the rotor is not in the exact centre. You can compare the shadow distance with the static bits around the outside of the main rotor.

Edit. also looking at the shadow of the centre of the main rotor in the strobed video the same effect can be seen, however would perfer it if someone with better picture analysis would confirm this observation.

cub3 · « **Reply #1998 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:31:32 AM »

Quote from: vipond50 on February 01, 2008, 06:10:58 AM

Quote from: cub3 on February 01, 2008, 05:43:00 AM
Quote from: Omnibus on February 01, 2008, 04:57:17 AM
The more I'm looking at my rig the more the old problem seems to be popping up--as many have already said, the weights, especially the rotor weight may be the crucial factor, now that we have the proper magnets (I hope so). Not so much the bearings but the weights and the interplay of the fields due to the mutual disposition of the magnets. But then, again, why didn't @Craigy and @CLaNZeR get positive results with their seemingly lighter rotors. Could it be they were too light? Anybody know what their rotors' exact weight was?

One tends to think that a flywheel effect should be utilized but the flywheel may be just too heavy and won't allow the effect itself to emerge.

ALL,
As previously mentioned.

This place needs a database (spreadsheet of Al's. / and everyones initial & subsequent dimensional & constructional modifications, with a time line showing further changes, results etc. Most important.

Regards
Den

Hi Den
Well your ideaÃ‚Â , which is good , put it together and i am sure others will add or make available the data.

Cheers
B.

Of course it is good it should have been implemented at the very start of any replicationor any serious attempt to produce anything.

I am glad you finally see the value, that this will have to this site. Perhaps others will also.

It is not my place to do so, it is the very basics of engineering and science, for THOSE participating to record so that they may reproduce. Am I wrong?

Regards

Den

Bruce_TPU · « **Reply #1999 on:** February 01, 2008, 01:55:31 PM »

Quote from: PolyMatrix on February 01, 2008, 07:52:47 AM

Check the shadow of the main rotor in @Al's video. the rotor is not in the exact centre. You can compare the shadow distance with the static bits around the outside of the main rotor.

Edit. also looking at the shadow of the centre of the main rotor in the strobed video the same effect can be seen, however would perfer it if someone with better picture analysis would confirm this observation.

Hmm....

That is interesting. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

robbie47 · « **Reply #2000 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:20:48 PM »

Quote from: PolyMatrix on February 01, 2008, 07:52:47 AM

Check the shadow of the main rotor in @Al's video. the rotor is not in the exact centre. You can compare the shadow distance with the static bits around the outside of the main rotor.

Edit. also looking at the shadow of the centre of the main rotor in the strobed video the same effect can be seen, however would perfer it if someone with better picture analysis would confirm this observation.

How about vertical wobble (variation in hight)?

RunningBare · « **Reply #2001 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:23:27 PM »

Fingers crossed guys and gals

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60180&page=2#Item_5

Quote

Turbinator wrote:

Without going into too much detail, I had a sustained rotor yesterday evening while fooling around around with the stators; The stators were not rotating but oscillating slightly (and with a rod mag attached to each stator - like i said i was tinkering!), the rotor was hand spooled and left to run down while i was doing something else..... strangely it held at around 300rpm. I will investigate further and keep a camera handy.

dean_mcgowan · « **Reply #2002 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:39:11 PM »

I suppose Turbo has just as much right to infer things as Al does .. <pours another green tea blend gets the yummy white honey out and reclines to watch the circus unfold>

hydrocontrol · « **Reply #2003 on:** February 01, 2008, 05:10:54 PM »

Wow. I had tried something like that with my set about a week ago except that I used two small rod magnets attached to the stator so it looked like --O-- . I only did it to one stator. I did notice it pulsed the rotor and seems to improve slow down times but I could not get it to do anything else but to wind down at which point one or the other outer stator arms would stick to a rotor magnet. Guess I will have to go back and play with one arm setup..

Quote from: RunningBare on February 01, 2008, 02:23:27 PM

Fingers crossed guys and gals

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60180&page=2#Item_5
Quote
Turbinator wrote:

Without going into too much detail, I had a sustained rotor yesterday evening while fooling around around with the stators; The stators were not rotating but oscillating slightly (and with a rod mag attached to each stator - like i said i was tinkering!), the rotor was hand spooled and left to run down while i was doing something else..... strangely it held at around 300rpm. I will investigate further and keep a camera handy.

Yadaraf · « **Reply #2004 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:40:26 PM »

Quote from: RunningBare on February 01, 2008, 02:23:27 PM

Fingers crossed guys and gals

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60180&page=2#Item_5
Quote
Turbinator wrote:

Without going into too much detail, I had a sustained rotor yesterday evening while fooling around around with the stators; The stators were not rotating but oscillating slightly (and with a rod mag attached to each stator - like i said i was tinkering!), the rotor was hand spooled and left to run down while i was doing something else..... strangely it held at around 300rpm. I will investigate further and keep a camera handy.

RE: Similarity between turbinator's oscillation and the Lego device(?)

Not to clutter this thread up, but if the Lego device is to be believed, then its rubber bands might be contributing to a similar oscillation phenomenon as the spinning rotor mags pass by the fixed stator mags -- hunting/oscillating during passage due to the elasticity in the bands, but never really "locking in."

In any event, turbinator's device is starting to look like a Lego-WhipMag hybrid.

Cheers,

Yada ..
.

Grimer · « **Reply #2005 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:12:57 PM »

Quote from: Spartane on January 31, 2008, 09:28:24 PM

One of the things that Sean mentioned on the Steorn site was the need for "poor quality" magnets.

...

So maybe Al used older crappy rotor magnets that he happened to had lying around, and the rest of you are using fresh, off-the-shelf magnets that have their magnetic domains so firmly locked into place, that they cannot be modulated by the spinning stator magnet.

Anyway, something to consider...

I think that is a very good point. If one is to generate energy one has to cut a chunk out of the BH loop in the opposite sense from the energy loss (refrigeration) direction. Maybe the change from GW to AGW marks that change in direction. Mmmm.......very interesting. I hadn't looked at it that way before but it's so obvious when you think about it. That is what the change in rotor direction is telling us.

Omnibus · « **Reply #2006 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:28:56 PM »

I will have to send my rotor to be milled down to 258g so I won?t do experiments till probably Tuesday. In the meantime I won?t stop discussing theory but not here. Please @Grimer, @Spartane and others who also want to discuss theory would you mind moving to the debate thread to avoid cluttering this thread devoted solely to the technical issues regarding the replication of @alsetalokin?s device.

Yadaraf · « **Reply #2007 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:30:58 PM »

Quote from: Grimer on February 01, 2008, 10:12:57 PM

Quote from: Spartane on January 31, 2008, 09:28:24 PM
One of the things that Sean mentioned on the Steorn site was the need for "poor quality" magnets.

...

So maybe Al used older crappy rotor magnets that he happened to had lying around, and the rest of you are using fresh, off-the-shelf magnets that have their magnetic domains so firmly locked into place, that they cannot be modulated by the spinning stator magnet.

Anyway, something to consider...
I think that is a very good point. If one is to generate energy one has to cut a chunk out of the BH loop in the opposite sense from the energy loss (refrigeration) direction. Maybe the change from GW to AGW marks that change in direction. Mmmm.......very interesting. I hadn't looked at it that way before but it's so obvious when you think about it. That is what the change in rotor direction is telling us.

How about crappy supports -- ones that wobble enough to resonate like the Tacoma Narrows bridge [a.k.a Galloping Gertie].

It's possible the new and very "tight" replications are so different from Al's cobbled together original that some natural [and potentially catalytic] resonance (oscillation) has been lost.

Perhaps mounting the stators to someting less rigid -- like hard rubber -- would induce resonance. Perhaps the same is needed for the rotor. Studying the resonant frequency (300 rpm ==> 5 cps?) could be useful. The closest natural phenomenon that comes to mind is the Schumann resonance of 7.8 Hz (~468 rpm).

... Schumann resonance: http://147.175.143.11/schr-e/index.php

Time to loosen up?

Cheers,

Yada ..
.

MeggerMan · « **Reply #2008 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:50:21 PM »

@All,
Looks like Turbinator on the Steorn forum has achieved sustained rotation, in his last post he sort of implies that he is holding the stator magnets in his fingers which may not be good.
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60264&page=1#Item_5

I hope this works out and become the first independant running replica.
Couple of pages back someone mentioned ceramic bearings, these are available quite easily from r/c model places and ebay, they made from stainless steel, ceramic ball bearings and have a special low friction lubricant.
They last a lot longer, are not effected by magnets, so a good choice I think.
Here is a lightweight bearing I found 5x8x2.5mm:
http://www.modeltech.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=102&products_id=478&PHPSESSID=05c675e5dd4ad987c71085cfa21e8733

There seems to be a lot of discusion about critical rotor weight, I would concentrate more on the stator friction if I were you.
You could always mill out a circular slot in the disk if you want to be spot on but I think time would be better spent looking at the major point of friction, that being the stator bearing - it spins faster, has very little inertia and I have seen from my own tests that ball bearing lockup from the stator magnet is a major problem.

I think we are good to go now...

regards
Rob

Omnibus · « **Reply #2009 on:** February 01, 2008, 11:01:18 PM »

@MeggerMan,

Did you read one of my latest posts? There I explained that I replaced the bearing with a brand new one. As a result I couldn't latch it in AGW no matter how much I tried. Then I applied penetrating lubricating oil to it, as I've done with the older ones, and locking it in AGW became again straightforward and easy. The importance of this penetrating lubricant cannot be overestimated. Achieving a steady AGW latch isn't a problem at all, this is what my experiments show. The main problems seem to again revolve around the proper rotor weight and the proper rotor and stator magnetic induction profiles. Until we get them adjusted as they are in the original success is hardly likely, I think. I'm curious what's your rotor's weight?

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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube?? (Read 1333873 times)

cub3

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vipond50

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PolyMatrix

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cub3

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Bruce_TPU

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robbie47

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RunningBare

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dean_mcgowan

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hydrocontrol

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Yadaraf

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Grimer

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Omnibus

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Yadaraf

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MeggerMan

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