Author Topic: Muller Dynamo (Read 4352892 times)

conradelektro · « **Reply #1815 on:** May 22, 2011, 10:12:33 AM »

Quote from: plengo on May 22, 2011, 03:59:44 AM

That's why I ordered those:

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7580
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit1002

They are very robust. I will have to clean the bearings and replace the oil inside because they have a little bit of friction, but they will endure the 20000rpm very easily.

Fausto.

@Fausto: I am also thinking about two flanged bearings (one on each stator plate), an axis and two flange blocks holding the disk on the axis (one block below the disk and one above). The axis could be turned down to 5 mm at one end to carry an encoder wheel.

One can get flanged bearings for a 10 mm axis and also blocks for a 10 mm axis. But a 12 mm axis as you suggest is also very good.

I also observed that the bearings for a 10 mm axis or thicker have quite a high friction.

(This way of mounting the disk was chosen for the "The Muller Mark II".)

Greetings, Conrad

conradelektro · « **Reply #1816 on:** May 22, 2011, 10:28:30 AM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 22, 2011, 09:01:59 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYRVwIw0azo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is a simular replication . It seems to run very long time on this supercap.

My speculation:

The basic idea is to drive a disk with the "pulse motor principle" (because it needs little energy) and then to place many "generator coils" around the spinning disk (which carries magnets) to harvest electricity.

The principal speculation being that the "pulse motor principle" needs less electricity than can be harvested by generator coils.

If this is true in some way, many different designs are possible.

Greetings, Conrad

SkyWatcher123 · « **Reply #1817 on:** May 22, 2011, 10:28:31 AM »

Hi folks, Hi conrad, I'm using flange bearings and I had to remove the dust covers and clean out all the heavy grease in them to get them to spin freely. They are way better this way and spin for a long time.
peace love light
tyson

electr0n · « **Reply #1818 on:** May 22, 2011, 10:33:02 AM »

Hi, someone mentioned rotor height adjustment earlier, heres what i did.
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9404/rrotorheightadj01.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8135/rassembled02.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/6374/rassembled01.jpg
A s/steel bolt with the top machined to move the rotor shaft up and down.

Awesome work you guys, some amazing constructing/testing your doing

Thaelin · « **Reply #1819 on:** May 22, 2011, 11:27:04 AM »

Maiden motor run with one motor coil pair and one gen coil pair.

Output is 13.5v after the FWBR. Coils are 3 strands of #30 for
300 turns for about 4.5 ohms total.

Found some D-FW79 SMC sensors that put out high going signal
and operate from 5v to 24v dc. Output voltage depends on input.
Triggers the Fet directly without additional circuit.

Soon as the tach gets here, will be able to give a rpm of it. Will
have all the coils and motor running then. Then I start the bias
part of it. Running right now in repulse mode but will switch when
ready

thay

conradelektro · « **Reply #1820 on:** May 22, 2011, 12:20:31 PM »

Quote from: Thaelin on May 22, 2011, 11:27:04 AM

Found some D-FW79 SMC sensors that put out high going signal
and operate from 5v to 24v dc. Output voltage depends on input.
Triggers the Fet directly without additional circuit.

thay

@thay: I could not find the sensors you mentioned, could you please state a source?

Greetings, Conrad

maw2432 · « **Reply #1821 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:14:53 PM »

Quote from: electr0n on May 22, 2011, 10:33:02 AM

Hi, someone mentioned rotor height adjustment earlier, heres what i did.
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9404/rrotorheightadj01.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8135/rassembled02.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/6374/rassembled01.jpg
A s/steel bolt with the top machined to move the rotor shaft up and down.

Awesome work you guys, some amazing constructing/testing your doing

@ElectrOn

Very nice looking rig. What are you using for those nice looking bearings? How well does is spin?

Bill

khabe · « **Reply #1822 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:21:35 PM »

What is the point of iron washers between coils and magnets on the stator plates

Part of brilliant flash of concept idea

or ... unfortunately these washers give nothing besides losses

I guess that provisionally was matter of economy - just money saving - it is easy to try coil top magnets without glue, no needs to colly expensive today magnets

cheers,
khabe

Tudi · « **Reply #1823 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:25:42 PM »

@khabe, though you have a point. This whole device has quite a few very non optimal or controvertial design parts. Neverthless, in case you manage to obtain a COP 100x ( just a random large number) you do not really care how unoptimal your design is, mostly if you break the functionality by changing it.

Since the coils will have a switching matnetic field ( pull / push ) cycle, if you do not put the washers there to shield the top magnets from bottom ones. At some point they would "fly" away. Having a shielding between the coil and the magnet makes you wonder how do they even influence the output of the device ?

gyulasun · « **Reply #1824 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:27:11 PM »

Quote from: maw2432 on May 22, 2011, 02:34:25 AM

I know this may be a stupid question to some of you but I have to ask. Please help me understand all this AC to DC and back again stuff.

My understanding is the design of the generator goes from AC to DC with the FWBR's. Then the DC to DC converter is used to control the amount of power to the driver cores so the motor can be a self runner (with power left over).

My question is this, if there is all this excess (OU) power coming from the motor/generator why not just use one of those AC to DC power supplies like the selectable DC out supply I have for one my laptop computers and eliminate all the FWBRs?

Second question, does anyone know if a Forstner drill bit is ok to use on acrylic?

Thanks
Bill

Hi Bill,

Trying to answer your first question. Romero used a separate diode bridge for each of his generator coils, ok. He did not connect the gen coils directly in groups like in series or parallel but he connected all the DC outputs of the individual diode bridges in parallel. This is surely important once he did so and then this would involve as many AC-DC converters to use as the number gen coils dictate.
Using the many diode bridges surely costs some loss in useful output power because of the forward voltage drops of the diodes and your idea to simplify sounds good of course. However, if you study the input circuit topology of most AC-DC converters you would find their AC input includes diode bridges... in 99% of the cases I think. It is true that then it would involve only one (common) diode bridge.
Another issue to consider when trying to connect directly in series the generator coils (to use a single AC-DC converter for all of them) is the phase differences between the individual output voltages, it should be studied, otherwise you may have even bigger power loss than the diode bridges otherwise involve.

rgds, Gyula

Bruce_TPU · « **Reply #1825 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:33:23 PM »

Quote from: Thaelin on May 22, 2011, 11:27:04 AM

Maiden motor run with one motor coil pair and one gen coil pair.

Output is 13.5v after the FWBR. Coils are 3 strands of #30 for
300 turns for about 4.5 ohms total.

Found some D-FW79 SMC sensors that put out high going signal
and operate from 5v to 24v dc. Output voltage depends on input.
Triggers the Fet directly without additional circuit.

Soon as the tach gets here, will be able to give a rpm of it. Will
have all the coils and motor running then. Then I start the bias
part of it. Running right now in repulse mode but will switch when
ready

thay

Hi thay,

Is 13.5 volts open circuit or with a load?

Cheers,

Bruce

k4zep · « **Reply #1826 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:45:31 PM »

Quote from: electr0n on May 22, 2011, 10:33:02 AM

Hi, someone mentioned rotor height adjustment earlier, heres what i did.
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9404/rrotorheightadj01.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8135/rassembled02.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/6374/rassembled01.jpg
A s/steel bolt with the top machined to move the rotor shaft up and down.

Awesome work you guys, some amazing constructing/testing your doing

Awesome work indeed! I'm looking at a mirror of mine except for the height adjustment!!!! Wow.

Ben K4ZEP

maw2432 · « **Reply #1827 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:57:59 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on May 22, 2011, 02:27:11 PM

Hi Bill,

Trying to answer your first question. Romero used a separate diode bridge for each of his generator coils, ok. He did not connect the gen coils directly in groups like in series or parallel but he connected all the DC outputs of the individual diode bridges in parallel. This is surely important once he did so and then this would involve as many AC-DC converters to use as the number gen coils dictate.
Using the many diode bridges surely costs some loss in useful output power because of the forward voltage drops of the diodes and your idea to simplify sounds good of course. However, if you study the input circuit topology of most AC-DC converters you would find their AC input includes diode bridges... in 99% of the cases I think. It is true that then it would involve only one (common) diode bridge.
Another issue to consider when trying to connect directly in series the generator coils (to use a single AC-DC converter for all of them) is the phase differences between the individual output voltages, it should be studied, otherwise you may have even bigger power loss than the diode bridges otherwise involve.

rgds, Gyula

Gyula, thanks for your answer. So we need the FWBR's because the phase differences of each AC generator coil needs to be considered in capturing all of the AC power. I guess a common diode bridge would not be able to handle the phase differences. Is there a phase difference in the coil pairs that Romeo uses? (I believe the top and bottom coil pairs are in a series).

Thaelin · « **Reply #1828 on:** May 22, 2011, 03:02:01 PM »

OOPS!

D-F79W is the right part number........
thay
They certainly work good too. Just ran up a single motor coil and output 20.7 volts. That is from a batt at 12.5v.

Quote from: conradelektro on May 22, 2011, 12:20:31 PM

@thay: I could not find the sensors you mentioned, could you please state a source?

Greetings, Conrad

Thaelin · « **Reply #1829 on:** May 22, 2011, 03:06:33 PM »

Bruce:
Well now its 20.7 but yes with no load yet. Just woke up the neighbors upstairs so have to mellow out a bit. Need to find my car bulb and see what it does with that. 12v .9a is its norm.

thay

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