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Mechanical free energy devices => RomeroUK pulse motor Muller generator => Topic started by: Schpankme on January 01, 2008, 04:48:41 AM

Title: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Schpankme on January 01, 2008, 04:48:41 AM
A search of the internet shows very few replications (2) of the Muller Dynamo.  So why isn't more people building the Muller Dynamo ?

Technical Summary
 
The Muller Dynamo is a brushless generator composed of one moving part, the rotor.  The rotor is mounted on a shaft, which revolves around inside of the stator shell.  Super-magnets are mounted around the periphery of the rotor.  Super-magnets are used, one more rotor magnet than generator coils.  Inside of the stator shell, several generator coils are mounted, wound around an amorphous ferrite core.

Amorphous metals are used for the core material inside the coils.  These cores exhibit practically zero hysteresis loss.  The cores have no magnetic memory and cannot sustain any current flow even though they will polarize magnetically nearly as well as iron and other alloys used for cores.  Consequently, they do not heat up.

The generator contains an odd-number/even-number configuration of poles/magnets so that a magnetic balance occurs which eliminates the work required to move one pole from the other no matter how large or strong the magnetic surface would be.  This concept allows the flywheel to turn easily and efficiently despite the inherent powerful holding force of the magnets.

The rotor of the Muller R&D model contains 16 NdFeB permanent magnets which are set 22.5 degrees apart and the stator contains 15 field coils which are set approximately 24 degrees apart.

The rotor is turned by a motor, rotor magnets revolve past the coils, the magnetic field induces a pulsating electrical current which can be used for any purpose.  However, first the generated electricity must flow through a solid state switching circuit.

The switching circuit turns the stator coils "on" and "off" at the appropriate times to "clip" and channel the current flow.  This prevents the buildup of forces which "buck" (back emf) the generator and reduces its output.  This switching circuit gives the Muller Dynamo virtually zero rotor drag and virtually all of the motive force is turned directly into usable electrical energy. - Bill Muller

- Schpankme

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: IronHead on January 01, 2008, 04:53:42 AM
Because to many people screwed up this very complex and expensive Dynamo and gave it a bad name.
But it works
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Schpankme on January 01, 2008, 05:04:53 AM
Because to many people screwed up this very complex and expensive Dynamo and gave it a bad name.
But it works

IronHead,

You make a very good point.  I've personally tried to find "detailed information" for re-creating the Muller Dynamo and nothing "seems to exist".

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: IronHead on January 01, 2008, 05:17:30 AM
The hardcore builders were pretty efficient when it came to pulling all the info and study down. There were only a few really. Few new people have worked with this as time is a big factor to build this devise and as you said little to no info is remaining.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Thaelin on January 01, 2008, 03:26:04 PM
   Just for reference, when contacted why the files were removed, she said that they would be reposted at a later time. Guess that she is going through a divorce right now and getting things back in order. Hang in there.

thaelin
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Schpankme on January 02, 2008, 01:54:50 AM
Just for reference, when contacted why the files were removed, she said that they would be reposted at a later time ... Hang in there.


Muller Power Inc  -  "Advancing the Legacy of Bill Muller"
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 01:08:19 AM
Here is my replication of a Muller Dynamo with few addons.

http://www.multiupload.com/ETDN8T2EAM

http://www.multiupload.com/OWA1FAZ39H

http://www.multiupload.com/KC60FB6Z3Z

(edited by Admin): The videos were removed from Youtube.

The 3 videos of RomeroUK are now here on my Youtube account:

http://www.youtube.com/overunitydotcom#g/u



(added by admin):
Hi All,
I just compiled Version 1.1 of the PDF file describing the RomeroUK selfrunning device
in detail.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=471

or also available at:

http://www.multiupload.com/TQ5UZT4YXU

or here at these mirrors:

https://rapidshare.com/#!download|459l34|461551754|selfrunning_free_energy_device_muller_motor_generator_romerouk_version1_1.pdf

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VWWNUFN2

http://depositfiles.com/de/files/w8uhok53k

http://hotfile.com/dl/117244989/84efd75/selfrunning_free_energy_device_muller_motor_generator_romerouk_version1_1.pdf.html

http://www.zshare.net/download/899480481faec778/


Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 04, 2011, 01:36:31 AM
Hi Romero,

Very impressive. Congrats.

Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scianto on May 04, 2011, 09:51:40 AM
romerouk
Would you, please, be willing to post more technical data of your setup, like the circuit, coils data etc.?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 04, 2011, 11:08:54 AM
Here is my replication of a Muller Dynamo with few addons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnO9O-fm9TU

Hi Romero,

CONGRATULATIONS!  You seem to have a COP=2 setup!  Very good.

For any naysayers a possible looping should be practical by using a DC/DC converter, such off the shelf units have at least a COP of 0.8 i.e. a 80% efficiency (or higher), this means the resultant COP still remains around 1.6 (0.8*2) and because you showed 12V output at 2A current (24Watt) the remaining available extra power (beyond the output taken for selfrunning) is at least 5-6Watt:
you can win the overunity price right now!

Here is a possible DC/DC converter I think would be good for looping back your output to input:
http://www.powerstream.com/dc6.htm

Of course there should be many other products like this or you can surely build a simple one from switch mode integrated circuits. The requirement is the converter should have a regulated 12V output voltage to prevent run away situation.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 04, 2011, 11:51:09 AM
Hi romerouk, nice work on the generator. It seems as though you're using principals from your 'overunity 2' video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYTr16vdOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYTr16vdOM)
And on top of that you're using the odd/even setup like Muller, good ideas.

So with the example of your video 'overunity 2', where you show 2 magnets at opposite end repulsively interacting and nullifying that repulsion by using the ferro core attraction at the coil/core.
It seems possible one can get extra shaft power from that alone, though the odd/even is probably an extra bonus.

I'm going to test the principles in the 'overunity 2' video, i have everything here from other projects to easily replicate it. Was that coil intended to be pulsed or is it driven by a separate motor.
peace love light
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 12:14:25 PM
Hi romerouk, nice work on the generator. It seems as though you're using principals from your 'overunity 2' video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYTr16vdOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYTr16vdOM)
And on top of that you're using the odd/even setup like Muller, good ideas.

So with the example of your video 'overunity 2', where you show 2 magnets at opposite end repulsively interacting and nullifying that repulsion by using the ferro core attraction at the coil/core.
It seems possible one can get extra shaft power from that alone, though the odd/even is probably an extra bonus.

I'm going to test the principles in the 'overunity 2' video, i have everything here from other projects to easily replicate it. Was that coil intended to be pulsed or is it driven by a separate motor.
peace love light
Hi,
That setup can be used in both configurations, having a coil to drive it or with a motor attached to the shaft.Testing must be done with the load connected then adjust the magnets
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 12:22:42 PM
Hi Romero,

CONGRATULATIONS!  You seem to have a COP=2 setup!  Very good.

For any naysayers a possible looping should be practical by using a DC/DC converter, such off the shelf units have at least a COP of 0.8 i.e. a 80% efficiency (or higher), this means the resultant COP still remains around 1.6 (0.8*2) and because you showed 12V output at 2A current (24Watt) the remaining available extra power (beyond the output taken for selfrunning) is at least 5-6Watt:
you can win the overunity price right now!

Here is a possible DC/DC converter I think would be good for looping back your output to input:
http://www.powerstream.com/dc6.htm

Of course there should be many other products like this or you can surely build a simple one from switch mode integrated circuits. The requirement is the converter should have a regulated 12V output voltage to prevent run away situation.

rgds,  Gyula
Hi Gyula,
good ideea to use a DC to DC converter. Ofcourse I have tried to self loop starting with the battery to get up the speed then disconectig and leaving a 47000uf/40v capacitor.That almost destroyed my driving coils, they are melted a bit but still working.With the battery connected and the bulb in parallel it works good and charging the battery too.I did't think of a DC converter but now I realise that I must have one. I will order one and see the results... as for the overunity price we shall get the most of this setup then look for it. I think that a solid state device (no moving parts)  will win that price, it is what everyone is looking for.

Best regards,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 04, 2011, 01:32:55 PM
Hi Romero,

May I ask, what provides the trigger for the drive coils, please?

Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 02:06:48 PM
Hi Romero,

May I ask, what provides the trigger for the drive coils, please?

Penno
hall effect sensor
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 04, 2011, 02:12:18 PM
One more -

are you calling a top and bottom pair, one coil?

Thanks, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 02:52:05 PM
One more -

are you calling a top and bottom pair, one coil?

Thanks, Penno
the coils are conencted in pairs, top with the bottom but when i am talking about coils I am refering to each individual one.
The current setup works with the driving coils in attraction to the magnets. I have originally tried in repulsion but this one works better.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 04, 2011, 06:29:31 PM
Very interesting device. I searched in Peswiki and found that another one made this device with a COP of 1.7. I wonder why this device is not used more widely in industry? The circuits I found look quite complicated though. Definitely not something for the average sixpack Joe...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 04, 2011, 06:55:14 PM
@romero uk .The device that you have built could be far more important than you are aware .One key question is , how complex are the electronics . If you are certain of your measurement techniques , then you have a proven COP of nearly 2 . Even if this can not be looped , look at the significance in small scale wind power . Imagine DOUBLING the output of a small scale wind plant . Or a solar array . Applications are suitable for both suburbia and third world villages . In a solar set up ,you can double the energy the solar panel put into the battery . And Double it again as it leaves the battery to feed the load ! Hows that for compound interest ! If the tech is scaleable , you could run machines in series , so that the energy increases in an exponential manner . Given enough info , I would definitely replicate this one .So back to the electronics . How about a schematic . Or why don't you sell detailed plans , and ultimately Kits?If this is real why are we wasting time on less attainable technologies?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 04, 2011, 07:23:55 PM
Wowww!! Romerouk :o

fantastic work.

Can't wait to prepare a replication. Your electronic seems much simpler than the one we can see at peswiki.

Have you a shematic?

Thanks

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 07:45:18 PM
This is the parts arrangement in my Muller setup.
I had few questions from the 'replicators' here about voltage on the battery going down when the load is on.
The reason for that is that from the output bridge rectifier I am using one diode to send power back to the battery to keep it charged.When the 20watt bulb is connected the power going back to the battery is reduced resulting that slight voltage drop.
This setup was built for about 25watt load, if the load is increased then all setup must be changed.
The gap from the coils to the rotor must be changed and some other things ...
If anyone is trying to replicate this please remember to do the testing with the load on and compensate the drag with the magnets on top of the coilsI hope this helps.

All the best,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 04, 2011, 08:25:02 PM
@Romerouk . Thanks for that info . There are many more questions that need to be asked .
1What is the total number of coil and magnets
2 Is each coil used as a drive coil and a generator coil in turn .
3 If each coil serves only one purpose , how many drive coils and how many generator coils 4 You show a drive circuit for a coil . How many of these are needed?
5 Assuming that the output is derived from coils that act only as generator coils , how is the output configured , for example , is a separate bridge rectifier used for each generator coil , and the rectifier outputs connected in parallel? or series?
 6 In a basic setup , what electronics are needed beside the driver circuit you show and bridge rectifier
This info would give us a start .Many thanks , also could you give a rough rpm of the rotor in tests you have done? Also , on your youtube vid , please confirm that the Magnacoaster apparatus in not part of , or connected to , the Muller Generator .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 04, 2011, 09:26:55 PM
Further to my last post . It looks like you have 2 dedicated driver coils . The inputs to those coils are triggered by hall effect sensors , So the input to the device is pulsed .The big question is , does that ,or does it not , cause problems in measuring the input current .In other words , can the multimeter that you use to measure input current give a true reading on a pulsed DC Waveform.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 04, 2011, 10:43:38 PM
Hi Neptune,

If you watch the video more closely, you will see -

9 coils pairs - 2 of which are drive coils and 7 gen coils
8 magnets on the rotor

all gen cols series to achieve 12v

A more interseting question would have been for some detail on the coils -

turn, core and wire gauge ?


Penno

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 04, 2011, 10:49:30 PM
@ROMEROuk

i remember that all or most "overunity, the guys have find because wrong "metering" !!

Think about that ALL mesurements  from NON-DC  as also NONSINUS-odial-WAVES  are with wrong / failed results.

As "unprofessional, you have only ONE WAY to see and result.
To have more output that the Input need:

Use 2 packs 12v 2,2Amp Lead-gel batteries
or 2 packs with 10pcs 1,2 AA NiMh AA batiers.

One to drive the INPUT  another to charge
if possible also lightning your bulb.

Use an switch to swap the 2 battery packs
In to out,  so  if that is running and lightning some
days.. THAN (only than) your circuit is UNEFULLY

Gustav Pese
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 04, 2011, 11:04:18 PM

Hello Gustav,

Yet another way to prove the extra output is to loop it back by using a DC-DC converter which has a 12V regulated output. Regulated output is a must to prevent the runaway / self-destruction moments.

Here is another such converter (in the previous page I have shown another link on DC-DC converter) for looping his output back to the input:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639

This way any pulsed current measurement problems or any benefit from battery chemical (de-sulphation) effect can be avoided.

Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 11:25:33 PM
Answers to your questions:
Only 2 coils (pairs) are driving.
All other coils are connected to bridge rectifiers, each set of coils goes to a rectifier then all are connected in parallel not in series as someone said before.
Each coil has 300 turns of 0.8mm multistrand, one set of coils is 600 turns in total.
The core is ferrite 6mm diameter 15mm long.
Lately I had some messages saying that this is a fake, some kind of trick I do... what can I say?
...wait until I will have it self running then who knows what else will come.
I finished this project about one month ago and I had it tested then I decided to post the video.
I had it working for days without any recharge to the battery.
So, my friends, if you think that this is a fake please ignore my posts.

All the best,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 04, 2011, 11:37:08 PM
Hi Romero,

Sorry about the assumption of series for gen coils - my mistake.

Thanks for all that information.

Kindest Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 04, 2011, 11:58:49 PM
@gyulasun
I am going to buy that regulator from Maplins tommorow.

Thank you,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 05, 2011, 12:09:44 AM
hi Romero

thanks for the driver coil shematic ( i use it since some times on my shorting coil experiment and it works great,, thanks )

So everything seems very easy to replicate. And so far, you do not use  "shorting"  on the generative coils. Only paralelling those coils, rectified  to the load-

So the main effect seems to come from the odd / even coil to magnet arrangement coupled with your addition of external magnet.

woww so simple genius

bravo

Will begin the replication ASAP

good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 12:24:44 AM
hi Romero

thanks for the driver coil shematic ( i use it since some times on my shorting coil experiment and it works great,, thanks )

So everything seems very easy to replicate. And so far, you do not use  "shorting"  on the generative coils. Only paralelling those coils, rectified  to the load-

So the main effect seems to come from the odd / even coil to magnet arrangement coupled with your addition of external magnet.

woww so simple genius

bravo

Will begin the replication ASAP

good luck at all

Laurent
before spending lots of money and time try to replicate my old example from the folowing link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYTr16vdOM
Use any number of magnets but make sure that at anyone time you have a magnet in position to compensate the drag created by the coil.
use a motor to drive the rotor and make sure you start testing with a load connected then adjust the magnet up and down to eliminate the drag as much is possible and get best output. More easier than this is not possible and I have posted that info long time back.
Please keep me updated with your progress.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 05, 2011, 02:01:49 AM
Hi folks, Hi romerouk, thanks for all the additional information. A couple years ago, I built just about the exact setup, minus the permanent magnets in stator and used repulsion, not attraction.
Though I used dual magnet rotors sandwiching a stator plate with steel washers as cores, in odd/even arrangement.

And just like your setup, I only used 1 drive coil, then 2 drive coils, though when just using the 1 drive coil, it took off like a rocket as if all the other coil/cores were not there.
If it were not an odd/even setup, my rotors would never have accelerated in that manner and would have had low rpm.
So since you're using the permanent magnets to cancel the attraction effect of the core, so you can use attraction mode of your coil, you don't need to use repulsion.
In a way, it's somewhat similar to the kawai motor, in that when pulsed to attract, you're attracting a powerful neo magnet and not needing any input to negate any drag back to ferromagnetic core issues.
Though I wonder if the odd/even geometry is even needed when using the permanent magnets to cancel ferro core attraction, though it probably helps.
peace love light
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 05, 2011, 07:59:20 AM
[...]
Only 2 coils (pairs) are driving.
All other coils are connected to bridge rectifiers, each set of coils goes to a rectifier then all are connected in parallel
[...]
RomeroUK

hi Romero

excellent build - thanks for sharing!

apologies, another couple questions:

 - what is approx weight of rotor (without mags) - or what material/object did you use?

 - is there any waveform factoring or smoothing involved in the output measurements as shown in video?
  eg. Capacitor smoothing of combined parallel FWBR o/ps, or using 'moving-iron' type Volt & Amp meters?


someone suggested charging 2nd battery pack with o/p & swapping with i/p to see if operation continues longterm (sorry, can't see who whilst posting this reply - maybe Gustav?)

...just a thought - from my experiments with charging NiMHs, NiCds etc, that process is only around 50% efficient, so you'd need a bigger margin than just COP=2 to be sure of achieving sufficient i/p back from charged batteries (don't know about charging efficiency of LBAs tho')

...could this margin also apply to an attempt to loop back the existing o/p to the i/p battery (ie. would you need to supply more than**  2x the existing battery draw to keep it recharged?  i don't know)

(** 'more than' because the DC/DC conv. also has 10-20% losses)

anyway, hope the feedback development goes smoothly, whatever method you go for

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 09:33:58 AM
@nul-points
Hi,
I am not sure exactly about the weight but is about 2kg with the magnets on.
The rotor is made of Acrilyc 1.2cm thick. No smoothing in the video shown but yesterday I have added a capacitor to the load and I've got better results.
I had it running for days without loosing the charge.I have even started from 8volts in the battery and that charged and was running ok.No need to change batteries, I will try to have it running without battery just capacitors, today I will have the answer... I must get that dc/dc converter first.Even looping back I should still be able to lit a 5w bulb at the same time.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 05, 2011, 11:18:19 AM
thanks for the info, Romero

sounds good about the smoothing cap - what capacity did you use & what did the Vout & Iout change to?

i guess with a little more windings on the gen coils that it would be possible to generate sufficient o/p voltage headroom to use for charging the i/p battery directly, without conversion (apart from rectification, of course)


a technique that i'm finding useful (with a different experiment) is to supply a load circuit direct from a battery as usual - then connect the feedback o/p buffer capacitor to the battery via an inductor which is large enough to block switching transients between cap & battery

the cap would be ok to receive any transients from the o/p and it can develop a slight voltage increase above the battery voltage to keep a constant 'trickle' charge into the battery thro' the inductor

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 

[Edited to clarify feedback of o/p]
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 12:39:23 PM
thanks for the info, Romero

sounds good about the smoothing cap - what capacity did you use & what did the Vout & Iout change to?

i guess with a little more windings on the gen coils that it would be possible to generate sufficient o/p voltage headroom to use for charging the i/p battery directly, without conversion (apart from rectification, of course)


a technique that i'm finding useful (with a different experiment) is to supply a load circuit direct from a battery as usual - then connect the o/p buffer capacitor to the battery via an inductor which is large enough to block switching transients between cap & battery

the cap would be ok to receive any transients from the o/p and it can develop a slight voltage increase above the battery voltage to keep a constant 'trickle' charge into the battery thro' the inductor

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
I have used a 4700uf/25v and the voltage increased to 13.8 with the load
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 01:01:42 PM
@Romero UK . Thanks for answering my questions . I am not sure why you are using multistrand wire in your coils . How many strands? or is this litz wire . Surely multistrand is used for high frequency AC? To the best of my knowledge , the charge/discharge efficiency of lead acid batteries is about 80% . I s the charge discharge efficiency of caps 100% ? I think it was nul-points who suggested some coil rewinding to remove the necessity of a DC-DC converter . A simpler solution would be to rewind only the drive coils to work on a lower voltage . If you do this , include taps in the winding to optimise things .
        There is a simple way to measure complex waveforms . I think it was originally Gustav`s idea .Make a box with 2 compartments and a lid of frosted glass or greaseproof paper . Inside , fit 2 identical bulbs . Feed one from the waveform , and one from a variable voltage DC power supply .Adjust supply until both bulbs are equally bright . Read the amps and volts from the meters of your power supply . That will give you the watts . An added refinement is to use a homemade light meter consisting of a small solar cell and a milliamp meter .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 05, 2011, 01:16:51 PM
I have used a 4700uf/25v and the voltage increased to 13.8 with the load

excellent! -  thanks, Romero

13.8V (on-load) sounds like it would sustain some feedback from your smoothed o/p to your battery

maybe you could try a couple of diodes (say 1N4007 or similar?) in series to get a forward volt drop approx equal to the difference between 13.8V and the  i/p battery voltage (approx 12.3V on-load iirc?)  -

try first with lamp load switched in - monitoring DC current thro' feedback diode(s) (starting on high Amp range & working down, of course)

if you have any schottky diodes (eg 1N5817 or similar) you could try different arrangements of 1N4007 (approx 0.7V) & schottky (approx 0.4V) to get different forward Vdrop between buffer cap & battery

if you can't sustain 13.8V or near, with lamp load, try without lamp - but start with higher diode Vforward values first


you must be very excited about this?  (your generator build)

In bocca al lupo!  :)
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 

[Edit: add clarifications]
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 05, 2011, 01:37:36 PM
[...]
To the best of my knowledge , the charge/discharge efficiency of lead acid batteries is about 80%.
[...]
Is the charge discharge efficiency of caps 100% ?
[...]
I think it was nul-points who suggested some coil rewinding to remove the necessity of a DC-DC converter . A simpler solution would be to rewind only the drive coils to work on a lower voltage . If you do this , include taps in the winding to optimise things.

thanks for the LAB efficiency, Neptune

cap discharge *should* approach 100% (if cap/cct has low leakage, low internal series R, and you don't cause significant heat loss by the discharge currents)

however, there are losses associated with trying to get charge-separation into a cap in the first place (i had a whole thread going on this issue a couple of years back - confirming experimentally that around 50% of the supplied energy was getting dissipated in external resistance of supply load + wiring) - even when using a series inductor

some academic experiments have shown that increasing the number of pulses to switch current into a cap tends to reduce the losses

[oops - late edit!]  good idea about modding 2 driver coils, rather than 8 gen coils!   this might help if you used a stack of NiMH cells to give 8.4V or 9.6V, say, rather than the existing 12V i/p battery

if you keep the 12V i/p battery then you'd really need to bump up the output voltage  to get sufficient feedback volts - but Romero has achieved this anyway by adding the buffer cap, so no need to alter any coils - neat!


hope your cycling's been less eventful recently - bet it's been great weather to be out on a bike!
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 02:58:14 PM
@Romerouk .Can you please tell us more about your magnets . Size , grade , source of supply ? and could you please comment on my question re multistrand wire . Re the coil cores . Are these just pieces of ferrite rod from an old radio , or are they commercial cores ? Sorry about all these questions , but we need as much info as possible to replicate .It would seem from the video that your battery is 17 Amp hour . So if you dispensed with the machine, and connected that lamp directly to the battery , one could reasonably expect a run time of about 9 hours until the battery voltage drops to ,say , 11volts . That is if the battery is in good condition . However you say that the machine has run for several days without substantially discharging the battery .If this is the case ,you can forget about analysing complex waveforms .In my book , this shows indisputable proof of overunity .
@nul-points . Yes fine cycling weather , thanks but very windy . On the flat lands of Lincolnshire , the winds are our mountains ...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 04:22:05 PM
@Romerouk .Can you please tell us more about your magnets . Size , grade , source of supply ? and could you please comment on my question re multistrand wire . Re the coil cores . Are these just pieces of ferrite rod from an old radio , or are they commercial cores ? Sorry about all these questions , but we need as much info as possible to replicate .It would seem from the video that your battery is 17 Amp hour . So if you dispensed with the machine, and connected that lamp directly to the battery , one could reasonably expect a run time of about 9 hours until the battery voltage drops to ,say , 11volts . That is if the battery is in good condition . However you say that the machine has run for several days without substantially discharging the battery .If this is the case ,you can forget about analysing complex waveforms .In my book , this shows indisputable proof of overunity .
@nul-points . Yes fine cycling weather , thanks but very windy . On the flat lands of Lincolnshire , the winds are our mountains ...
The magnets are 2cm diameter with 1cm thick, not very sure about the grade, I think are N38, I have bought them long time ago.
The reason to use multistrand is that most of my devices I built I used multistrand.
Some tests from other projects before showed me that using multistrand wire I get better results.
Another reason is the type of wire I had when I started the project adn also much easier to build the coils when the wire is more flexible. I think there are 7 wires in(I am not home now to check).
The ferrite rods are recovered from computer PSU, used as filters with copper wire on them. I do work with computers and all PSU I need to replace I get the goodies out before disposal, free source for many useful components.
The battery is 17 amp but it is about 5 years old, not very good but still works.
Regarding changing the driving coils... I prefer to keep it as is, I am happy enough with the results, no need to proove anything, I know it works. I started this project not to get super power but to see how it works and if it works, so far results are good enough. I bought a DC/DC converter today and this evening I will try self looping...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 04:57:34 PM
Something similar with my setup but a bigger scale
http://www.youtube.com/user/NewSpaceTechnology#p/u/0/JdCSbLdKVJw

"Perpetual motion is stored in the magnets.
The Magnets ARE the Motor."


"By cleverly counter-balancing their equal and opposite reactions to each other, in space and in time, partly by mechanics, partly by timing, partly by circuitry, and partly by material science, Mechanical / Electrical work can be extracted from them sufficient to show so-called Over-Unity production of Net Energy."

"That means, efficiency greater than 100%,
an actual amplification of the available energy
as opposed to a net consumption of the energy."

...... Bill Muller
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 05, 2011, 06:47:04 PM

Hi Romero

Thanks for advice and sharing.

I hope all the best for the LOOPING

I am gathering the matos to replicate (have to make some ordering)
Can't wait for your result

Good luck

Laurent

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 06:58:30 PM
@Romerouk. Thanks for your additional info , much appreciated . I would like to work on a replication , but am a bit limited financially , and have very poor eyesight . I was actually wondering if it would work with ceramic magnets from microwave ovens , as I have lots of these.I built a 50 watt wind generator with these . I ultimately would like to build an OU machine with at least 100 watts out .Could I use old radio ferrite rods as core material?When it ran for several days without discharging the battery, did it have a load , or not?
       This machine consists of two parts , a motor and a generator . Which one is OU ? My money is on the generator . So we need to drive it with the most efficient motor available .Is a pulse motor the best choice? I don't know , I am just asking . Maybe a conventional permanent brush motor is more efficient, or a brushless ? Whatever motor we use , it needs to be direct drive , to eliminate transmission losses . Also someone on another thread quoted a mathematical formula to calculate the ideal coil-magnet ratio to reduce drag. I will post it later if I can find it .An afterthought .The pulse motor could of course be made more efficient by recycling the back EMF .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 05, 2011, 08:30:07 PM
[...]
we need to drive it with the most efficient motor available .Is a pulse motor the best choice? I don't know , I am just asking . Maybe a conventional permanent brush motor is more efficient, or a brushless ? Whatever motor we use , it needs to be direct drive , to eliminate transmission losses
[...]

hi Neptune

have you seen any of Prof Kanarev's work?

he recently claimed to have created a self-running hybrid fluid/electromag motor/generator - details on PESwiki (& here on OU.com, somewhere)

not much detail forthcoming yet (in English, anyway) - but there was *one* short paper where he outlined something of his theories

he suggests that once a motor has been run up to speed then the most efficient way to continue driving it is by applying pulses

so it *could* be that you should hedge those bets on the generator...

...and also get one of Kanarev's motors installed on your bike - for when you meet one of them there Lincolnshire 'Mountains'!  ;)

worth checking out? 

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 09:18:55 PM
It WORKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !
I am going to upload the video, is almost 20 minutes of self running.
The skeptics should prepare the arsenal..... :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 05, 2011, 09:32:52 PM
Hi Romero,

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kindest Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 05, 2011, 09:36:43 PM
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/neogen/
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 05, 2011, 09:48:50 PM
It WORKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !
I am going to upload the video, is almost 20 minutes of self running.
The skeptics should prepare the arsenal..... :)


CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 09:57:47 PM
@romerouk/ Congratulations , and watch out for the MIBs.Am I dreaming , or is this just what we have been looking for .Fairly simple , open source , looped. get those plans sorted , sit back and count the money . I personally feel that optimisation will eliminate the need for the DC-DC converter. All hail the mighty romerouk!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 10:10:32 PM
@Gyula
Thank you Gyula for your sugestion with the DC/DC converter .
The one from Maplins is what I used and it worked just fine .
The upload is in progress but is 1.35gb file and it takes some time
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 05, 2011, 10:16:53 PM

Hi Romero,

you are welcome and I am very pleased for your looping success!
Later, when you have some more time, try to place some further load to the 12V output of the converter, just to see how much extra 'reserve' energy is still hidden in the setup.
I do believe that further improvements are possible, like getting rid of the diode bridge and use controlled MOSFETs as rectifiers and so on.

rgds,  Gyula



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 05, 2011, 10:20:21 PM
 ;) :D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

yeepee !!

video video video

thanks for sharing

good luck and take care

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 10:28:18 PM
Hi Romero,

you are welcome and I am very pleased for your looping success!
Later, when you have some more time, try to place some further load to the 12V output of the converter, just to see how much extra 'reserve' energy is still hidden in the setup.
I do believe that further improvements are possible, like getting rid of the diode bridge and use controlled MOSFETs as rectifiers and so on.

rgds,  Gyula
At one time durring the test I have added the 20w bulb too and it worked. The voltage dropped a little under 12 volts.You will understand more when u watch the video.Before recording the video I tried with a 20w bulb plus a 5w bulb and that was a bit too much, the voltage dropped to 10.1v .The converter is not that strong too.A better setup with bigger magnets and bigger coils will do better.That is the next step now.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 05, 2011, 10:29:23 PM

It WORKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !

Omg, this will be amazing!! Can't wait for it!

I'm quoting woopy's post to express my feelings:

;) :D ;D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

yeepee !!

video video video

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 10:30:16 PM
While we wait for the video , here is a thought  .I assume that all the magnets in the rotor have the same pole facing up . So therefore , am I right in thinking that the output from a given pair of coils is NOT AC , but pulsed DC ? If I am right , we can replace all the bridge rectifiers with single diodes . This would cut losses and improve the voltage of the out put .Can someone tell me if I am right or wrong ? Meanwhile , this is much more exiting [and of more benefit to mankind] than the first man on the moon .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 05, 2011, 10:36:02 PM
Very well done sir.

As I suspected last night, now after re-reading the thread and seeing your new post...

We are in a 'Drop Everything you are doing and come here' situation.

I will be ordering All the parts required for this replication this weekend.

Thank you Romerouk, I am looking forward to this!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 10:36:39 PM
While we wait for the video , here is a thought  .I assume that all the magnets in the rotor have the same pole facing up . So therefore , am I right in thinking that the output from a given pair of coils is NOT AC , but pulsed DC ? If I am right , we can replace all the bridge rectifiers with single diodes . This would cut losses and improve the voltage of the out put .Can someone tell me if I am right or wrong ? Meanwhile , this is much more exiting [and of more benefit to mankind] than the first man on the moon .
all magnets are same pole facing up. I have a spare rotor with magnets NSNS but I have never tried it but I will...
I am looking forward to bulid a proper one now.
I think now that we know it works people should try to replicate a bigger size.
Biggest problem I had was to get the rotor made.The core is very important
The picture below shows the core i am looking to use in the next setup.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 10:45:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDW_OfkIaIU
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 05, 2011, 10:51:54 PM
Romero,

I am STOKED

I can't believe what I'm seeing.

Again, CONGRATULATIONS and THANKYOU so much for sharing.

Kindest Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on May 05, 2011, 11:08:43 PM
Hi Romerouk,

Excellent job.

I got a really giddy feeling when you removed the battery completely and it was still running even with the load of the light. Wow!  :o
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 05, 2011, 11:10:18 PM
Very well done Sir!

I watched witch amazing,

Speeding up, slowing down at will, pulling a load !

Excellent!   Tighten your shoes!

Good luck!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: cubalibre on May 05, 2011, 11:11:41 PM
Wonderful, amazing, thank you.
cubalibre
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 05, 2011, 11:16:32 PM
Hehehe!!

 I am smiling in anticipation of what is to come of this!!

great video RomeroUK, dare I say utterly ground-breaking video?

I think I will.

We All have work to do, good luck everyone.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Nali2001 on May 05, 2011, 11:17:21 PM
Hi Romero,
Great build and results.
Now I have a couple of questions if you don't mind lol:

- What is the core material?
- You use 2 drive coils and 7 output coils?
- So, you take the output from each output coil > rectify and smooth that > that power is than via dc-to-dc converted back into the input coils?
- The magnets on top of the coils, are then really needed?
- How many rotor magnets do you use?
- Can you please post some good pictures as well?

Thanks for sharing!
Regards,
Steven
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 05, 2011, 11:24:05 PM
all magnets are same pole facing up. I have a spare rotor with magnets NSNS but I have never tried it but I will...
I am looking forward to bulid a proper one now.
I think now that we know it works people should try to replicate a bigger size.
Biggest problem I had was to get the rotor made.The core is very important
The picture below shows the core i am looking to use in the next setup.

@romerouk
Thank you! You should win the O.U prize! Stephan should look into this.
Excellent job!

chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 11:30:35 PM
Hi Romero,
Great build and results.
Now I have a couple of questions if you don't mind lol:

- What is the core material?
- You use 2 drive coils and 7 output coils?
- So, you take the output from each output coil > rectify and smooth that > that power is than via dc-to-dc converted back into the input coils?
- The magnets on top of the coils, are then really needed?
- How many rotor magnets do you use?
- Can you please post some good pictures as well?

Thanks for sharing!
Regards,
Steven
The output from each output coil > rectify and smooth that > that power is than via dc-to-dc converted back into the input coils = Correct
Without the magnets on top the self running will not be possible, al least up to now.
The core is ferrite rod 6mm. the picture below shows metal screws as core but I  replaced them after initial testings
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 11:38:00 PM
This is a night we shall remember all our lives , for sure . I hope romerouk does not get overwhelmed and go into hiding , and that someone collates all the info into one place . Guess it will bbe on Peswiki by tomorrow . Mainstream news ? in about 10 years . going to try to sleep . see you all later .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 05, 2011, 11:40:48 PM
romerouk....
10 000 STARS....

???????????????????????????????????
ROTOR MAGNET  S N S N S N

OR

ROTOR MAGNET  S S S S S S


????????????????????????????????????
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/neogen/

http://depositfiles.com/ru/files/l0njcj24c

http://depositfiles.com/ru/files/pwuiu230e
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 05, 2011, 11:43:12 PM
@Free Energy , see reply 57 page 4 . It would seem it does not matter as long as all mags same pole up .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Nali2001 on May 05, 2011, 11:44:14 PM
Hi Romero,
Great! Yes I am wondering about the rotor magnet orientation as well.
I notice not all input coils have a magnet on top, you ran out of magnets or was this needed?
Why are there diodes on the full wave rectifiers, more power handling?

Thanks!
Steven
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 05, 2011, 11:50:03 PM
This is a night we shall remember all our lives , for sure . I hope romerouk does not get overwhelmed and go into hiding , and that someone collates all the info into one place . Guess it will bbe on Peswiki by tomorrow . Mainstream news ? in about 10 years . going to try to sleep . see you all later .
Don't worry I am not running away.I don't care if i am on different sites or if I am not. I prefer not to be.This is not my invention, I have only replicated the work from this great man, Bill Muller.
This is smal comparing with many other discoveries that are already available but sometimes even small is good enough to keep us going.
Now I am waiting other people to replicate then I will be more happy. I have a friend here on this forum that I talked with in private sometimes and this friend already thinks that yesterday video is a fake.I am waiting to see what is going to say today.
I might need to hang the generator with a piece of wire and have it running suspended...
People replicating this should double all my details, bigger coils, magnets and most important a heavy rotor with even number of magnets on it and uneven number of coils.
Make sure that spacing betwen the coils or betwen the magnets on the rotor is equally spaced.
The distance betwen the coils and the rotor  must be adjusted depending on the magnets used, core... Too close is not neccesary good.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 05, 2011, 11:58:19 PM
hi Romero

you make it all look so easy - what has everyone been doing for the last 10 years or so?

nice work!

i can see that the DC/DC convertor voltage switch allows you to control the drive - but i'm interested to know if it is possible to replace the converter altogether by just connecting the buffer cap to the i/p using one or more diodes in series

would you be able to try that at some point?


PS i guess you'll be hearing from Steorn pretty soon, asking how you do it!  ;)

many thanks - and well done!
np

 
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 06, 2011, 12:02:04 AM
Wow

nothing to add

but let's replicate at full speed ... a good night and large dream is needed

giant BRAVO Romero and Bill Muller

good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: knovos on May 06, 2011, 12:10:45 AM
This must be the break trough where we all have waited for. The year 2011 is the year of the free energy. We don't need no mystery's anymore from Don Smith or Tariel Kapandeze. It is here to catch for all of us and lets spread it out over the world! Thank you very much Romero, for your replication skills and most of all your open source mind. Congratulations!!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 06, 2011, 12:11:47 AM
...

i can see that the DC/DC convertor voltage switch allows you to control the drive - but i'm interested to know if it is possible to replace the converter altogether by just connecting the buffer cap to the i/p using one or more diodes in series

would you be able to try that at some point?
....

Hi nul-points,

I apologize for 'chiming' in, I do think a kind of regulator for voltage or current should be included in the feedback loop, otherwise either slowly or suddenly a runaway situation develops in the loop. A battery is an excellent such regulator and you can even abuse it to an extent but the moment you remove it from the setup and you do not care on some regulation, your setup becomes unstable for sure. This is why the input voltage (which is the output voltage from such a regulator) is to be kept under control.

rgds, Gyula

EDIT:  Yes, series diodes sound good to use but they are non-linear and allow a small but steady increase in the output voltage, this increase then brings gradually the RPM up and up, hence output power increases too so the setup finally runs into self destruction. For testing purposes they are good limiters I agree.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 12:12:58 AM
@nul-points
I don't want to hear from anyone, steorn or others like them.This info is for all people and free too.
I have no intentions to be asociated with people who are just trying to rip us off.
All I want now is someone to replicate it to take this presure from me.I have more to show but at this moment this is HOT.
Running without the converter almost killed this generator melting the coils.... Must have something to keep the output stable.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 12:18:22 AM
Hi Romero,
Great! Yes I am wondering about the rotor magnet orientation as well.
I notice not all input coils have a magnet on top, you ran out of magnets or was this needed?
Why are there diodes on the full wave rectifiers, more power handling?

Thanks!
Steven
In this setup all magnets are the same orientation.
Yes, those extra diodes on top will add almost 2 volts to the total output and that is a lot.Proper rectifiers might work better but as usual, I used what I had already.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 06, 2011, 12:20:01 AM
Hi Romero,

I still can't believe IT WORKS !!! Its AMAZING !!!!!!

In the pic of the stators and rotor, you showed the nuts and bolts used to secure a I guess,
aid the magnetic field into the coil. May I ask how you secured the coils to the rotor when you replaced the bolts/screws and nuts withe ferrite.

Also, you mentioned multistrand mag wire for the cores. Can you be more specific, please.

Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 12:21:36 AM
romerouk....
10 000 STARS....

???????????????????????????????????
ROTOR MAGNET  S N S N S N

OR

ROTOR MAGNET  S S S S S S


????????????????????????????????????
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/neogen/

http://depositfiles.com/ru/files/l0njcj24c

http://depositfiles.com/ru/files/pwuiu230e
has anyone replicated the schematic you presented here? Drawings looks nice but I will like to see it real.

All the best,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 12:23:07 AM
Hi nul-points,

I apologize for 'chiming' in, I do think a kind of regulator for voltage or current should be included in the feedback loop, otherwise either slowly or suddenly a runaway situation develops in the loop. A battery is an excellent such regulator and you can even abuse it to an extent but the moment you remove it from the setup and you do not care on some regulation, your setup becomes unstable for sure. This is why the input voltage (which is the output voltage from such a regulator) is to be kept under control.

rgds, Gyula

hi Gyula

no problem - i agree with you

when i first suggested trying diodes a few posts above i wasn't expecting that Romero would be able to remove the battery altogether

i'm not suggesting that it should be a permanent replacement without either a battery or some other regulator - just trying it as a go/no-go test would be sufficient because it would confirm if the 'feedback to source via diode' method, which we see so often in other designs, is an equally valid approach for looping the energy

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 06, 2011, 12:27:05 AM
The linked pictures posted by FreeEnergyInfo are confusing me. I would rather like to see the circuit made by RomeroUK :) or at least which pictures/circuits are really necessary to construct the device.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 12:27:50 AM
Hi Romero,

I still can't believe IT WORKS !!! Its AMAZING !!!!!!

In the pic of the stators and rotor, you showed the nuts and bolts used to secure a I guess,
aid the magnetic field into the coil. May I ask how you secured the coils to the rotor when you replaced the bolts/screws and nuts withe ferrite.

Also, you mentioned multistrand mag wire for the cores. Can you be more specific, please.

Regards, Penno
oh my god ... :) a lot to answer tonight.
The coils are made of acrylic and all parts are acrylic - I used dichloromethane to glue them all.
Multistrand made of 7 wires totaling  0.8mm or 0.82mm, not 100% sure.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 12:29:24 AM

@nul-points
I don't want to hear from anyone, steorn or others like them.This info is for all people and free too.


hi Romero

yes - i was just joking that Steorn will contact you because you have shown us what they have been *promising* us for years - and never delivering, it seems!  so maybe they need to ask *you* how to do it  :)

thanks for the feedback about the converter & stability
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 06, 2011, 12:42:29 AM
The linked pictures posted by FreeEnergyInfo are confusing me. I would rather like to see the circuit made by RomeroUK :) or at least which pictures/circuits are really necessary to construct the device.
OK...
SORYYYY..
CLER MY POST...
PEACE...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 06, 2011, 12:52:00 AM
oh my god ... :) a lot to answer tonight.
The coils are made of acrylic and all parts are acrylic - I used dichloromethane to glue them all.
Multistrand made of 7 wires totaling  0.8mm or 0.82mm, not 100% sure.

Congratulations! romero, excellent work

Will add my questions later, lol

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 01:03:48 AM
@FreeEnergyInfo
you should have left the pictures attached to your post too, any info is welcome. People should appreciate it and most of it is based on Muller's design.
Do you have a link to a video showing it working?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 01:12:31 AM
@romerouk,

Great work.

What is the type of Hall switch you are using?

Thanks,
GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 01:26:33 AM
@romerouk,

Great work.

What is the type of Hall switch you are using?

Thanks,
GL.
A3144
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 01:45:43 AM
I have asked this before but if got missed in the exitement . All the rotor magnets are same pole face up . I feel that this may mean that from a given generator coil , the out put will be not AC , but pulsed DC . If this is true , then a BRIDGE RECTIFIER IS NOT NEEDED.It can be replaced by a single diode . Can anybody confirn or deny this please? Single diode equals less volts drop and higher output .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 01:47:21 AM
A3144

@romerouk,

Back a few pages you posted a drawing of your switch.
The switching transistor inside the A3144 is a NPN
capable of switching 25mA. In your drawing you did
use a 100 Ohm resistor. Did you use this resistor
as a pull up from pin 3 (collector inside A3144) to
the positive rail?

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 02:03:04 AM
@romerouk,

Back a few pages you posted a drawing of your switch.
The switching transistor inside the A3144 is a NPN
capable of switching 25mA. In your drawing you did
use a 100 Ohm resistor. Did you use this resistor
as a pull up from pin 3 (collector inside A3144) to
the positive rail?

GL.
I call it pin 1 the voltage in, from plus goes to pin 1 thru a 100ohm resistor.
This schematic was used by many others in the shorting coil experiments.It is simple and works great.For my next build I am going to use proper mosfets with dedicated driver circuits...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 06, 2011, 02:07:27 AM
Hi Romero,

CONGRATULATIONS!  You seem to have a COP=2 setup!  Very good.

For any naysayers a possible looping should be practical by using a DC/DC converter, such off the shelf units have at least a COP of 0.8 i.e. a 80% efficiency (or higher), this means the resultant COP still remains around 1.6 (0.8*2) and because you showed 12V output at 2A current (24Watt) the remaining available extra power (beyond the output taken for selfrunning) is at least 5-6Watt:
you can win the overunity price right now!

Here is a possible DC/DC converter I think would be good for looping back your output to input:
http://www.powerstream.com/dc6.htm

rgds,  Gyula
Looping or using a scope to measure the output power will tell the true story.

The input power (~ 11.3W) is going to be fairly accurate because of the DC source. However Gyula, you should be aware that multiplying an average current by an average voltage of an output produced by induced currents in a coil, is not going to have a power factor of 1, and therefore the simple product of 24W will not be accurate.

Judging by the intensity of the bulb and assuming the efficiency to be 80%, the true output power is likely closer to 8W or 9W.

Nice job on the build R. :)

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 06, 2011, 03:02:42 AM
I have asked this before but if got missed in the exitement . All the rotor magnets are same pole face up . I feel that this may mean that from a given generator coil , the out put will be not AC , but pulsed DC . If this is true , then a BRIDGE RECTIFIER IS NOT NEEDED.It can be replaced by a single diode . Can anybody confirn or deny this please? Single diode equals less volts drop and higher output .

Neptune,

A single magnet passing a single coil makes AC You do not need NSNS to make AC. What controls the wave form is the direction of motion.

As the magnet approaches the coil it generate say a positive pulse. At TDC there is zero induction, As the magnet recedes from the coil it generates a negative pulse (depending on the magnet pole and the hand of the coil)

Ron

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 06, 2011, 03:03:56 AM
Hi folks, Hi romerouk, thanks again for all the information and videos.

I recall reading something from Muller about hardened steel ball bearings and also tubular steel cores could be used instead of the magnetite that he used.
Though I don't have any of the above, nor do i have a sufficient supply of ferrite cores.
All I have are steel bolts, so i will use those for the time being.
I have 1" diameter neos I'll be using, with 6 neo magnet rotor from another project.
peace love light
tyson :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 06, 2011, 03:19:39 AM
I call it pin 1 the voltage in, from plus goes to pin 1 thru a 100ohm resistor.
This schematic was used by many others in the shorting coil experiments.It is simple and works great.For my next build I am going to use proper mosfets with dedicated driver circuits...

Not wishing to detract from your achievement but it is my understanding that the A3144 has a built in voltage regulator so no resistor is needed in the supply to pin 1. However, as Ground loop pointed out there should be a 5 to 10K resistor from pin 3 to + supply as a pullup for the open collector.
Normally this resistor can go from pin 1 to pin 3.

If this sketch came from EV Grey, then a word of caution, several circuits are incorrectly presented.

http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/hall-effect-sensor-ic-applications-guide/AN27701.pdf

Fig 11

Ron



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 06, 2011, 09:34:54 AM
Looping or using a scope to measure the output power will tell the true story.

The input power (~ 11.3W) is going to be fairly accurate because of the DC source. However Gyula, you should be aware that multiplying an average current by an average voltage of an output produced by induced currents in a coil, is not going to have a power factor of 1, and therefore the simple product of 24W will not be accurate.

Judging by the intensity of the bulb and assuming the efficiency to be 80%, the true output power is likely closer to 8W or 9W.

Nice job on the build R. :)

.99

Hi poynt99,

In general you are right. But in this setup there should be an anomaly in the induction process because actually the looping works and your estimation of the 8-9W output would certainly be NOT enough to create the needed 11.3W.

As you surely noticed Romero used a full wave diode bridge at each coil output and although in his last but one video he did not use a puffer capacitor (later in the looping video he did) the moving coil current and voltage meters shown at the output did the averaging job pretty well. What really shows the anomaly, it is the input current: when Romero loads the output with the bulb, the 0.93A input current changes but a very little, it is like the action-reaction part would be at a minimum.

So it is the anomaly which is to be understood / explained.   :)

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 09:36:18 AM
Not wishing to detract from your achievement but it is my understanding that the A3144 has a built in voltage regulator so no resistor is needed in the supply to pin 1. However, as Ground loop pointed out there should be a 5 to 10K resistor from pin 3 to + supply as a pullup for the open collector.
Normally this resistor can go from pin 1 to pin 3.

If this sketch came from EV Grey, then a word of caution, several circuits are incorrectly presented.

http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/hall-effect-sensor-ic-applications-guide/AN27701.pdf

Fig 11

Ron
Hi,
I understand what you are saying but this is exactly how I used the circuit and it works just fine.As I said before, other people here have replicated that circuit and worked perfec, I think woopy is one of them.I had it running as is from 3.5 volt input to 18v input.
That resistor has a role in my understanding, I don't care in general about the info presented about a product, I am always trying to see it my way and in general I was right.
As I said it works as is.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 09:41:13 AM
@I-ron . Thanks for clearing up that point about AC or DC output . @poynt99 .what you say about measurement and power factor is a point I brought up earlier .However , this argument becomes irrelevant in view of the fact that the machine has been looped AND feeds a load at the same time .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 06, 2011, 09:47:55 AM
@I-ron . Thanks for clearing up that point about AC or DC output . @poynt99 .what you say about measurement and power factor is a point I brought up earlier .However , this argument becomes irrelevant in view of the fact that the machine has been looped AND feeds a load at the same time .

Hi Neptune,

As an addition to Ron's answer, here is a link you can read on the induced waveforms:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm 

Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 06, 2011, 10:51:06 AM
Hi folks, well I'm working on a replication, though I will be using 5/16" diameter steel bolts with 24 gauge wire, had 6 already made from previous project, just need to make 4 more and am using 6 - 1" diameter neo magnets on 3/4" mdf rotor, 6" center to center of magnets.
Will be using 10 coils total or 5 per side.
Will use hall effect with TIP42. Will start with one coil pair drive.
Will use same 1" diameter neo magnets at back of coil/cores to reduce drag.

I've built similar setups previously, so this will be no problem, just have some drilling and coiling to do yet.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 01:09:12 PM
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money . I plan to compromise by building a good shaft and rotor and then experimenting with the other bits .
           Here is an important question . What is the orientation of the magnets on top of the coils? If we assume that all rotor magnets are north pole up , are the magnets on top of the coils north pole up or south pole up . Also I need to learn more about Hall effect switches .Obviously , the motor drive coil needs to be energised as a magnet approaches it , and switched off as the magnet comes to its closest point to the coil . I am not quite clear at the moment what causes it to switch off at this point .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 06, 2011, 02:02:57 PM
Hi folks, here's information from the Muller web site.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 06, 2011, 02:15:44 PM
Guys, is it only me who doesn't understand or am I simply stupid:

I have currently a lot of trouble to estimate and guess which parts are needed to replicate this device, I don't even know where the circuit need to be attached, which coils are connected to where, where is the driver coil, how is it controlled, where are the rectifiers, whats the size of the magnets, how should they be aligned, how many magnets? is it only 8 magnets in the rotor, or is it 2x9(magnets below and on top of the 2 discs)+8 magnets(rotor) etc.

- to keep it short: I miss some organisation in here and I can't even start a replication without this information. And I'm asking myself how can any of you?

The only things I can guess is now:
"Ok, we have a different number of coils and magnets.
Somehow coils are coupled with one another through a rectifier.
Somehow a circuit with a transistor and a hall sensor is attached which does something.
Somewhere also is a capacitor with 4700µF and 20-40V which in the end will allow the selfrunner".

This allows too much juggling... :(
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 06, 2011, 02:22:19 PM
Sorry guys,

I had not yet seen the "Muller Generator - self running - Test1" looping video before I posted.

Good stuff Romero! I can't say I see any "problems" there. :)

Why isn't Stefan all over this yet? Has he seen the thread and video?

Reminds me of the Mike Window Motor a few years back.

Cheers,
.99

PS. I've started a new thread on this at OUR.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 02:28:09 PM
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money . I plan to compromise by building a good shaft and rotor and then experimenting with the other bits .
           Here is an important question . What is the orientation of the magnets on top of the coils? If we assume that all rotor magnets are north pole up , are the magnets on top of the coils north pole up or south pole up . Also I need to learn more about Hall effect switches .Obviously , the motor drive coil needs to be energised as a magnet approaches it , and switched off as the magnet comes to its closest point to the coil . I am not quite clear at the moment what causes it to switch off at this point .

hi Neptune

sounds like a good approach

this is the first time that i've been seriously tempted to build a motor, rather than a solid-state device

wrt the static mags, since their purpose is to 'null' the attraction between rotor mags & coil cores, then it seems likely that the upper mags are opposing the rotor mag orientation - does that seem sensible?

i think i noticed that Romero has what appear to be steel washers (glued?) to the upper frame above the coil positions, so that the upper mags hold themselves in place but can be moved easily (neat?)

when you get a larger one of these powering your bike i'm going to get on a train and come up to Lincolnshire and cheer you on!  :)


hope this helps (...er, i don't mean the cheering bit)
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 02:29:49 PM
Hi folks, well I'm working on a replication, though I will be using 5/16" diameter steel bolts with 24 gauge wire, had 6 already made from previous project, just need to make 4 more and am using 6 - 1" diameter neo magnets on 3/4" mdf rotor, 6" center to center of magnets.
Will be using 10 coils total or 5 per side.
Will use hall effect with TIP42. Will start with one coil pair drive.
Will use same 1" diameter neo magnets at back of coil/cores to reduce drag.

I've built similar setups previously, so this will be no problem, just have some drilling and coiling to do yet.
peace love light
tyson
I am not sure about the steel bolts, I tried in my first attempts with steel screw and that was a total failure.If you insist using it make sure u have enough gap betwen the coil and the rotor.
5 coils each side  might not be enough because you'll have a big distance betwen the coils that can affect the system. I have never tried it like that but in the end we will learn from all this.
Ultra important is to have the magnets spaced equally and the coils too.Failing in this arangement will cause system not to work properly. Leave the hall sensor to the ned to be able to find the right position and do it separately for each coil, not having both powered.
Initial tests must start with a load connected, at least a 5w but 10w will be better.
Don't connect all rectifiers togheter from the beginning, test and do the magnets adjustments individually.

I wish you luck.

PS: I already have a lot of offers to sell my device:) I have no intention to do that.
First I need to replicate myself then we shall see. I need to be able to do it again but this time at a bigger scale.
I have another small device in testing, a bit different than this one but I might get some extra output if it is going to confirm my thoughts but not yet.
I have most of the parts for the new build but not the rotor and bigger magnets.The magnets I am going to order today but the rotor is a pain.
I am not sure if building the coils as Bill suggested is of any advantage, that must be tested before comparing with a standard coil.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 02:51:07 PM
Hi Nul-points . I would agree that your theory on the coil-top magnets sounds most likely .But it would be nice to hear cofirmation from the man . I am still wondering about using old ferrite rod from old radios as cores ,because I have some . I know not all ferrites are equal .Based on a rotor speed of 5000RPM and 9 coils ,AC frequency in the coils would be about 45 Khz ., a much lower frequency than the ferrite sees in the radio .Criticism of this theory invited .
        For a pensioner like me ,Neo magnets are expensive , so I face 3 choices
1. choose the exact magnets Romerouk uses
2. Choose larger Neos in the hope of building a bigger machine .
3.Experiment initially with ceramic magnets from microwave ovens , which I have already.
Again criticism welcome .
@Romerouk . What is your longest looped run to date please?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 06, 2011, 02:53:10 PM
Hi romerouk, thanks for the tips and info.
I've built Muller odd/even setups like this in the past, though It may in the end need ferrite cores or equivalent to prevent all the losses.
At least I'll have it all setup to use ferrite, etc. later on.
I'm going to use a separate timing rotor that has smaller ferrite magnets, that way I can easily adjust the hall sensors using that.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 02:56:46 PM

PS: I already have a lot of offers to sell my device:) I have no intention to do that.
First I need to replicate myself then we shall see.


hi Romero

your achievement** here could be a 'tipping point' for the future direction of small-scale to medium-scale energy supply

if that becomes true, then that prototype could well become a part of history - i'd either hang on to it, or donate it to a museum at some point

it's not that a particular device is the key thing here - it's just showing the world that this is a feasible means of using energy


** i know that you've followed on from Bill Muller's lead here, but your system may be the step which moves everything forward

good luck for the future
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 03:05:43 PM
the 'all-N' mag setup on the rotor here may be a 'departure' from usual, but the benefit is obviously that Romero has been able to 'tune' the anti-cogging of the rotor with the coil cores

an N-S-N-S.. mag rotor setup wouldn't work with this anti-cogging arrangement

the static mags here are doing work 'for free' which is often achieved by a more complicated powered electromagnetic setup

i think Romero has achieved a very 'minimalistic' design where everything is working together in synergy - definitely greater than the sum of it's parts

...hmmm, that could equally well be a definition of 'Overunity' !  ;)

cheers all
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 

[Edit to clarify magnet scheme]
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 03:25:11 PM
@neptune
What is your longest looped run to date please?
Well the longest is the one I have recorded yesterday(about 20 min), after that I had no patience to sit and just look at it.I have some other projects in progress but this weekend I will have it running over night.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 04:08:19 PM
@Romerouk .First can you please definitely confirm the number of magnets and the number of coil pairs as I am trying to collate a list of essential facts to help everyone . I understand you getting bored after 20 minutes . If it had been me , they would probably have to drag me away several weeks later before I starved to death! Sorry , I realise that you have life and a family .
,But to me it would be more exiting than the Royal Wedding , The Cup final , the Olympics and the first Mars Landing , all rolled into one!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 04:52:17 PM
@romerouk,

What is the diameter of you rotor?
Also, what is the distance from the rotor outer rim and to the Neo magnets?

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 06, 2011, 05:18:38 PM
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money .

I'm in neptune, If you still need anyone. PM me and I will send you my email address.

I have a busy evening with work, but I have dedicated the whole weekend to this and have monday as holiday.

Time to revive my RS account.

Good to see everyone so busy since I last logged in.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 06, 2011, 05:37:30 PM
Hi,
I understand what you are saying but this is exactly how I used the circuit and it works just fine.As I said before, other people here have replicated that circuit and worked perfec, I think woopy is one of them.I had it running as is from 3.5 volt input to 18v input.
That resistor has a role in my understanding, I don't care in general about the info presented about a product, I am always trying to see it my way and in general I was right.
As I said it works as is.

LOL, I didn't say it didn't work, just that it may not be "good engineering"

Lots of people will be getting their first taste of electronics here now this is out and as a first step it would be best to present the hall in a manner that they can build on latter. As it is this works only on a PNP transistor. When you come to advance to the next level this simplification will not work.

It is working simply by taking the base to ground on activation then letting "leakage" currents take it back to a positive potential to turn off the transistor. All I was suggesting was that this could lead to sloppy imprecise timing.

But again, thank you for sharing the fruits of your research here, it is much appreciated.  One question... is the 'helper' magnet separated from the back of the coil by the full thickness of the acrylic? Would you confirm that the switching is to attract in?

Thanks

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: void109 on May 06, 2011, 05:50:02 PM
Found this video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArEjBIlKUes

This guy looks to have built a working muller device as well, just on a larger scale

Here's his website, he's logged what he's done

http://home.mchsi.com/~actt2/index.html

So it looks like this Muller dynamo has been independently replicated!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 06:02:28 PM
LOL, I didn't say it didn't work, just that it may not be "good engineering"

Lots of people will be getting their first taste of electronics here now this is out and as a first step it would be best to present the hall in a manner that they can build on latter. As it is this works only on a PNP transistor. When you come to advance to the next level this simplification will not work.

It is working simply by taking the base to ground on activation then letting "leakage" currents take it back to a positive potential to turn off the transistor. All I was suggesting was that this could lead to sloppy imprecise timing.

But again, thank you for sharing the fruits of your research here, it is much appreciated.  One question... is the 'helper' magnet separated from the back of the coil by the full thickness of the acrylic? Would you confirm that the switching is to attract in?

Thanks

Ron
I understand now.I know there is a lot of improvement that can be done on driving circuit.I used something I tested and used many times before. Any driver circuit will do, even simple bedini if the driving coils are made that way.
The 'helper magnet' is separated from the coil by the thickness of the acrylic (1cm).On the acrylic is glued  a 1mm/20mm washer then the magnet on top.
I am driving in attraction mode. I have started the project in repulsion then tried attraction. I get much better torque in attraction.
I have spent about one month to do all this testings and adjustments. Small things can make a huge difference, like my extra diodes on top of the rectifier.The gap from the rotor to the coil I had it increased and decreased hundreds of times to get it right.

All the best,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 06:11:03 PM

 Small things can make a huge difference, like my extra diodes on top of the rectifier

All the best,
RomeroUK

hi Romero

is it possible to provide a simple sketch for the connection of the 'extra diodes'?

many thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 06:25:20 PM
hi Romero

is it possible to provide a simple sketch for the connection of the 'extra diodes'?

many thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
no need for a sketch, they are in parallel with the one inside the rectifier
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 06, 2011, 06:35:19 PM
I understand now.I know
snip
I have spent about one month to do all this testings and adjustments. Small things can make a huge difference, like my extra diodes on top of the rectifier.The gap from the rotor to the coil I had it increased and decreased hundreds of times to get it right.

All the best,
RomeroUK

Romero,

Thanks, I didn't want to get off on the wrong foot... ;)

The multi strand... is it from computer monitor degaussing coils?

I hope not as I just recycled a whole bunch...lol

Rgds, Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 06:43:11 PM
@romerouk,

You probably did miss my questions.

What is the diameter of you rotor?
Also, what is the distance from the rotor outer rim and to the Neo magnets?

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
I get many questions about How I started this project, where the ideea came from:Turnigy SK3542-1250 Brushless Motor - is made on the same principle uneven magnets/coils.
This is where I started , I was playing with a small airoplane... then I studied Muller info...
This type of motors are using neos and should be very hard to turn them with your fingers but having Mullers arangement they turn very easy.
One of this motors can be turned very easy in an overunity generator.
They are cheap to buy on ebay.Since then, I bought  different types and re done the windings, the only problem is that they are quite small to work with also removing the existing windings is not easy.
I also have a large DC motor that is underconstruction transforming it in this type of generator. I removed the existing large magnets and added one smaller magnet for each section in the rotor, remaking the coils just like in Muller design.
I hope this helps in understanding a bit more about how to build and how it works.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 06, 2011, 06:47:25 PM
no need for a sketch, they are in parallel with the one inside the rectifier

great, thanks, Romero

so we could just use 4 schottkys as a FWBR to minimise volts drop
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 06:50:20 PM
@romerouk,

You probably did miss my questions.

What is the diameter of you rotor?
Also, what is the distance from the rotor outer rim and to the Neo magnets?

GL.
Sorry, diameter is 25cm and distance from the rotor to the coils is about 3.5-4mm.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 06:56:42 PM
Romero,

Thanks, I didn't want to get off on the wrong foot... ;)

The multi strand... is it from computer monitor degaussing coils?

I hope not as I just recycled a whole bunch...lol

Rgds, Ron
Well you saw something but not quite right. The 2 driver coils are using multistrand from the monitor deflection coils, all others are from the folowing link:http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu 500g
Ref: ST01250007-500
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 06:56:53 PM
Sorry, diameter is 25cm and distance from the rotor to the coils is about 3.5-4mm.

@romerouk,

I have compiled your information into this drawing. If I got anything wrong,
please let me know. Great work you are doing. :-)

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 07:04:38 PM
@Groundloop
Excellent job, well done!
After looking at the website I bought the wires I realised that is 7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu that makes a bit more than 0.8 mm, all other info is OK.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 07:25:26 PM
@Groundloop
Excellent job, well done!
After looking at the website I bought the wires I realised that is 7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu that makes a bit more than 0.8 mm, all other info is OK.

@romerouk,

I have updated the drawing with your new wire information.

Attached is a proposal to a mosfet switch for coil driving.
(Other PNP, NPN and N-Type mosfet can be used.)
Have not built this switch yet but I think it will work OK.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Staffman on May 06, 2011, 07:33:31 PM
@romerouk

Could you clear up one little detail? There are eight magnets on the rotor and nine stationary coils correct? I just want to be sure this detail is clear.

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 06, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
Wow, thanks a lot for this nice compilation. That's about the thing I was looking for. I got some questions left though:

edit: sorry, my questions are already answered in the schematic :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 07:37:31 PM
@ Staffman . That is our best guess so far , see info on diagram of Groundloops last post .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
@bourne . Thanks for your offer of help. what part of the UK are you in please?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 07:46:13 PM
@romerouk

Could you clear up one little detail? There are eight magnets on the rotor and nine stationary coils correct? I just want to be sure this detail is clear.

Thanks!!!
Correct! nine coils on each side
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 08:42:49 PM
@romerouk,

Attached is how I think you looped the circuit for self run.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 08:46:17 PM
Probably the biggest problem in this build is the rotor ,shaft and bearings . If you are going to spin 4 Kg at 5000 Rpm , you need good mechanicals .I hope to get mine custom made . One "bodge" idea is to use a washing machine motor with the pulley and brushes removed , and then get your local model engineer or latheman to make a mounting flange for the rotor .Visit your local scrapyard/recycling centre . Large ceramic magnets are obtainable from the magnetron in a microwave oven , but discharge the high voltage cap first .These caps can hold a charge for weeks . Also inside the magnetron are 2 ferrite core , similar to the ones recommended . Wire . I shall probably use magnet wire initially as I have large stocks . Copper wire sizes refer to the bare wire before it is varnished .A rough way to measure wire without a micrometer  is to close wind 10 turns on a nail , measure with a ruler and divide by ten . All replicators beware . Do not move machine when running at high revs . The gyroscopic forces could remove your head .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 06, 2011, 08:48:43 PM
Hi Groundloop, I am not clear in the following things:

1) How are the 4 driving coils (2 pairs) connected to each other, because the hall circuit shows only one (+) and one (-), but in fact we have 4x2 = 8 wires to connect?

2) The remaining 7 coil pairs: where exactly is the rectifier placed? And which parts are connected in series?
Is it that way: each coilpair (upper+lower) leads into a shared rectifier and from this rectifier the wires are connected in series to the other rectifiers? Or is it different like: each single coil has its own full bridge rectifier which then is connected in...*guessing* ???
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 08:58:21 PM
Hi Groundloop, I am not clear in the following things:

1) How are the 4 driving coils (2 pairs) connected to each other, because the hall circuit shows only one (+) and one (-), but in fact we have 4x2 = 8 wires to connect?

2) The remaining 7 coil pairs: where exactly is the rectifier placed? And which parts are connected in series?
Is it that way: each coilpair (upper+lower) leads into a shared rectifier and from this rectifier the wires are connected in series to the other rectifiers? Or is it different like: each single coil has its own full bridge rectifier which then is connected in...*guessing* ???

@gauschor,

There are 9 coils on each side of the rotor. You connect two coils (directly opposite to each other top and bottom) in series.
Now you have 9 pairs of wires. You select two pairs of wires to be motor coils. Those wires connects to two
switch electronic that uses Hall sensors to detect a magnet passing. You connect the input of those two
switches together (plus to plus and minus to minus). You now have two wires input for motor control.

Each of the remaining generator coils is connected to a diode bridge. The plus out put of each diode bridge
connects to the plus of a 47000uF 25 Volt electrolytic capacitor. The minus of each diode bridge connects to
the minus of the 47000uF capacitor. You now have one pair of generator wires going out from the setup.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 06, 2011, 09:28:08 PM
Thanks for the schematic this really helps :)

edit: Uh wait, u have 2 caps with different capacity? Is this the big monster cap from the video? but why 2 of them


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 09:37:01 PM
Thanks for the schematic this really helps :)

edit: Uh wait, u have 2 caps with different capacity? Is this the big monster cap from the video? but why 2 of them

@gauschor,

I think @romerouk did say in one of his posts that he did use the small capacitor
on the output from the diode bridges. I may be wrong, but it can't do any harm in any case.
Also not shown in the above drawing is the four 1N4007 diodes soldered in parallel on each diode bridge.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 06, 2011, 09:38:31 PM
I have just been pricing up some 20mm x10 mm thick neo  magnets . These cost about £5 each , so that means nearly £100 on magnets . 29mm x 5 mm are quite a bit cheaper . I would be interested to hear any opinions on using the 5mm magnets , or ceramic magnets or a cheaper source of magnets .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 09:45:59 PM
Hi Groundloop, I am not clear in the following things:

1) How are the 4 driving coils (2 pairs) connected to each other, because the hall circuit shows only one (+) and one (-), but in fact we have 4x2 = 8 wires to connect?

2) The remaining 7 coil pairs: where exactly is the rectifier placed? And which parts are connected in series?
Is it that way: each coilpair (upper+lower) leads into a shared rectifier and from this rectifier the wires are connected in series to the other rectifiers? Or is it different like: each single coil has its own full bridge rectifier which then is connected in...*guessing* ???
the top and the bottom coils makes one coil, both in series +-+- the the 2 ends left connect to the circuit, the same for the other set of 2 coils. look at the picture below
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: cap100nf on May 06, 2011, 09:48:14 PM
@neptune

I bought from first4magnets.com F646 20mm dia x 10mm thick N42 Neodymium Magnet. Qty 50 and payed £1.80 per magnet.

Ciao

K.



 

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 06, 2011, 09:49:14 PM
@Groundloop: Ah, i think its then for smoothing purpose only. The 47000 µF is a typo I assume, one "0" too much.
At least, I know how to solder the each of the 4 diode rectifiers :)

uh sorry to ask again: the last picture confuses me: you show a diode bridge, but it looks like you have 2 diode bridges. Isn't the box in the middle obsolete, i thought the rectifier should onl ylook like that: http://www.sunrom.com/images/media/3523.jpg
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 09:53:56 PM
@gauschor,

I think @romerouk did say in one of his posts that he did use the small capacitor
on the output from the diode bridges. I may be wrong, but it can't do any harm in any case.
Also not shown in the above drawing is the four 1N4007 diodes soldered in parallel on each diode bridge.

GL.
The capacitor u see in the video is connected before the DC/DC regulator, direct to the bridge rectifier.I had one at the output but it does not make any difference with the regulator in place
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 06, 2011, 10:05:13 PM
Hi Romero,

I still can't believe IT WORKS !!! Its AMAZING !!!!!!

In the pic of the stators and rotor, you showed the nuts and bolts used to secure a I guess,
aid the magnetic field into the coil. May I ask how you secured the coils to the rotor when you replaced the bolts/screws and nuts withe ferrite.

Also, you mentioned multistrand mag wire for the cores. Can you be more specific, please.

Regards, Penno

this is to important to pass up
I am going to build one, I am not stopping my current project as it will work
as well. will have two motors on the go.
keep every body posted
cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 10:10:12 PM
The capacitor u see in the video is connected before the DC/DC regulator, direct to the bridge rectifier.I had one at the output but it does not make any difference with the regulator in place

@romerouk,

What was the uF value and voltage rating of you BIG electrolytic capacitor?

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 10:23:50 PM
@romerouk,

What was the uF value and voltage rating of you BIG electrolytic capacitor?

GL.
The capacitor used is 47000uf/25volts.
I just had it started manually, no battery.
I turned the rotor few times with my hand to get some charge to the capacitor then switched the converter on.It started ok, no problem.The advantage here is that the circuit starts working from about 3.5 volts.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 10:28:33 PM
The capacitor used is 47000uf/25volts.
I just had it started manually, no battery.
I turned the rotor few times with my hand to get some charge to the capacitor then switched the converter on.It started ok, no problem.The advantage here is that the circuit starts working from about 3.5 volts.

Thanks, I have updated the drawing.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 06, 2011, 10:37:48 PM
The capacitor u see in the video is connected before the DC/DC regulator, direct to the bridge rectifier.I had one at the output but it does not make any difference with the regulator in place

are the coils wound with Litz wire? you said a multi strand wire?
thanks for this great post
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 10:52:29 PM
@Groundloop
What are you using to do the drawings?
The on/off switch is before the converter just after the 47000uf capacitor.If I start with the converter on it is more difficult.
We can have a switch at the input and at the output.
The generator is on continous run for the last 3.15 hours.
I'll leave it running until neighbours will complain about the noise.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Nali2001 on May 06, 2011, 10:54:37 PM
Hi Romero,
Do you know if the multi-stranded litz wire is really necessary?
I know it handles high frequency better but have you tried normal wire as well?

Thanks!
Steven

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 10:56:23 PM
@Groundloop
What are you using to do the drawings?

@romerouk,

Microsoft Windows Paint. :-)

I have updated the on/off switch position on the drawing a few pages back.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 06, 2011, 11:00:24 PM
Yeppeeeeeee :D :D :D

hi all

so good i am at the weekend and deliciously drinking a pure malt whiskey.     SANTE A TOUS     it's not every day we have something like this yeep!!

Thanks Romero for sharing. And yes i use and reuse your very simple driver circuit exactly as it is presented here and it works great. Just have a look to what i-ron sayd and the proposed FET driver circuit (from GL) for more powerfull next evolution, there is full of helpfull impulse

Thanks of course to Groundloop for its really fantastic works and shematic proposals (for the futures and probably inombrable replications)

Thank's I-ron for the very interesting link to the HALL-effect sensor. Wow !!those small things can be used very differently, i will surely profit of this in my future experiment.

I Tyson (skywatcher ) i should propose that you use only 4 magnet rotor with your 10 coils (5 pairs) so you will not have too much distance to overcome between odd and even. And good luck every experiment is usefull.Thanks

I was almost sure that Toranarod would  come here ---Bienvenue to you---. Yes with your great experience you will surely help here.

And of course thank's to all other contributers. Every idea is necessary and can help

OK i am in front of my order list and my small lab desorder , looking in the drawers what is missing    and strong thinking how i will do it .Probably i will follow step by step the GL (Romero ) shematic to be sure to get the result -.

My question is the stranded wire.  Romero has alredy answered this question , but is there somebody who  can explain what is the electrical advantage of the standed wire . I say this because i have plenty of plain wire here , and no stranded wire. But of course for this exceptional replication i will not hesitate to order strande wire, (and will do anyway ) Any suggestion ?

  and very happy to be with you ---the power is there and concentrating

and another time YEEEEEPEEEEE :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 11:01:50 PM
@romerouk,

Microsoft Windows Paint. :-)

GL.
:) I tought u use something more professional.
I call myself an IT engineer and I don't recognize something simple like that... bad for me :)
I have edited the previous post to you
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 06, 2011, 11:13:42 PM
:) I tought u use something more professional.
I call myself an IT engineer and I don't recognize something simple like that... bad for me :)
I have edited the previous post to you

I do use other design programs also. But the Paint program is good enough for small and simple circuit designs.
Once you master the copy/paste and zoom in/out then you can make drawings very fast. :-)

I have moved the switch and updated the drawing with a 47000uF 25V cap.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 06, 2011, 11:14:12 PM
@woopy
good to see you arround.
Regarding the stranded wire:
Some time ago in a Bedini project I have built 2 identical coils but one with normal wire and another with stranded wire.I was using this coils to collect the power from the rotor powered with a Bedini standard circuit.Same core same wire diameter, all the same...
The results at that time(no load):   normal wire output was 9.2 volts
                                                stranded wire output was 12.3
since then I have always used stranded for most of my coils
it is easy to do the same experiment like me, actually it would be nice if someone else will confirm this.
I always try everything myself, I don't take all info I found as granted.
If I was wrong I would like someone to tell me.

@Groundloop
one more change to the drawing: input cap 47000uf
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 12:15:57 AM
@woopy
good to see you arround.
Regarding the stranded wire:
Some time ago in a Bedini project I have built 2 identical coils but one with normal wire and another with stranded wire.I was using this coils to collect the power from the rotor powered with a Bedini standard circuit.Same core same wire diameter, all the same...
The results at that time(no load):   normal wire output was 9.2 volts
                                                stranded wire output was 12.3
since then I have always used stranded for most of my coils
it is easy to do the same experiment like me, actually it would be nice if someone else will confirm this.
I always try everything myself, I don't take all info I found as granted.
If I was wrong I would like someone to tell me.

@Groundloop
one more change to the drawing: input cap 47000uf

Thanks for the info on the wire
thats all I need to know that is a good reason
cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 07, 2011, 12:23:45 AM
this is to important to pass up
I am going to build one, I am not stopping my current project as it will work
as well. will have two motors on the go.
keep every body posted
cheers

Me too!

@Romero.

Excellent work man. I will replicate this too.

Would be possible to take good close up pictures of your motor of every detail and post it? sometimes pictures can answer a million questions and also helps with documentation.

Many thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 07, 2011, 12:24:23 AM
Hi all,

How wonderful it is to see so many going for it.

I dont know if you are religeous Romero but, GOD BLESS YOU!

Regards, Penno

p.s. Rod, I thought you would like this.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 07, 2011, 12:37:34 AM
@woopy
good to see you arround.
Regarding the stranded wire:
Some time ago in a Bedini project I have built 2 identical coils but one with normal wire and another with stranded wire.I was using this coils to collect the power from the rotor powered with a Bedini standard circuit.Same core same wire diameter, all the same...
The results at that time(no load):   normal wire output was 9.2 volts
                                                stranded wire output was 12.3
since then I have always used stranded for most of my coils
it is easy to do the same experiment like me, actually it would be nice if someone else will confirm this.
I always try everything myself, I don't take all info I found as granted.
If I was wrong I would like someone to tell me.

@Groundloop
one more change to the drawing: input cap 47000uf

This is what Bruce Tpu says also with stranded wire. If the freq of operation is high, there will be more skin for skin effect to travel in a stranded wire than a solid of the same awg.  What freq? dunno.

Bruce is using litz. I believe its when each strand is coated or insulated from other strands in the same wire casing.

I suppose the insulation whether it be enamel or something like telephone wire, possibly the separation electrically from each other helps in some way.


Good job Romero.  ;]   


Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 12:51:57 AM
Hi all,

How wonderful it is to see so many going for it.

I dont know if you are religeous Romero but, GOD BLESS YOU!

Regards, Penno

p.s. Rod, I thought you would like this.
Hi penno,
Yes I am religious, Christian Orthodox, God helpped me many times in life.
I am curious to see how many will actually do anything, many are just waiting and waiting... don't know what.
Do not use shortcuts, if built like I said, reffering to the coils and magnets arrangement then everything else is easy if not will fail. I will show you how many rotors I have made before this one worked, all others looked perfect but small diferences.
Can you believe that I have ordered 2 of the acrylic rotors to a local company who uses laser cutting and I was expected to get a perfect rotor but... the centre hole is not centered and the spacing betwen the magnets on the rotor was not equal... I went crazy.I paid a lot of money for that operation to be done perfect and their excuse was that I was no very specific that it must be acurrate... what will I expect fron a laser cutting...
The one used now was ordered to another company that makes clock parts but the max thicknes they worked with was 3mm. I have ordered 4 and glued them togheter. The actual rotor u see is made from 4 rotors 3mm thick each.The rotor must be strong and not bend.
Today I have ordered the magnets for the next build and what is left is again the stupid rotor.
I have to go again thru the same pain, oh nooo...

All the best,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 12:58:40 AM
This is what Bruce Tpu says also with stranded wire. If the freq of operation is high, there will be more skin for skin effect to travel in a stranded wire than a solid of the same awg.  What freq? dunno.

Bruce is using litz. I believe its when each strand is coated or insulated from other strands in the same wire casing.

I suppose the insulation whether it be enamel or something like telephone wire, possibly the separation electrically from each other helps in some way.


Good job Romero.  ;]   


Mags
Hi,
People should understand that when I am talking about stranded wire I am reffering to a bunch of wires isolated from each other.
In my understanding litz wire is a bunch of wires unisolated like in a normal power cord.
I am specifying this just to make sure everyone understands.
English is not my first language, sometimes might have some mistakes...

Regards,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: AlphaTech on May 07, 2011, 01:07:31 AM
moderator: content removed by request of original poster AlphaTech.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 07, 2011, 01:13:03 AM
Hi,
People should understand that when I am talking about stranded wire I am reffering to a bunch of wires isolated from each other.
In my understanding litz wire is a bunch of wires unisolated like in a normal power cord.
I am specifying this just to make sure everyone understands.
English is not my first language, sometimes might have some mistakes...

Regards,
RomeroUK

@RomeroUK,

Litz wire has many enameled copper wires slightly twisted together.
(All wires are insulated from each other.)

I think you meant to say that you are using Litz wire on your coils.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 01:44:43 AM
Hi Romero,

great work you have done. I have a question about the Muller motor generator:

I just want to be sure about the magnet configuration of the stator-rotor-stator.

From top to bottom, is it really like this???: NS-coil SN coil-NS      or     SN-coil NS coil-SN     so the rotor magnet is in repulsion with stator

Or it is like this confiuration which is what John BEDINI have done (patent 6392370) like this???:
NS-coil NS coil-NS      or      SN-coil SN coil-SN       

Thanks

Vince
If you look at page one you will find a picture that shows it all. - SN-coil NS coil-SN
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 07, 2011, 01:48:28 AM

I am curious to see how many will actually do anything, many are just waiting and waiting... don't know what.

All the best,
RomeroUK

Well I have started, does that count? lol

Rgds Ron

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 01:50:29 AM
@RomeroUK,

Litz wire has many enameled copper wires slightly twisted together.
(All wires are insulated from each other.)

I think you meant to say that you are using Litz wire on your coils.

GL.
well, whatever :) call it litz, in UK is called Stranded Enamelled Copper -
Bunched copper conductors each strand individually enamelled
http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu
Ref: ST01250007-500

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 01:52:43 AM
Well I have started, does that count? lol

Rgds Ron
well done, first one that shows some progress.
who is next? :)
what is the rotor diameter, thickness?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 07, 2011, 02:06:16 AM
romerouk:

Very well done sir.  This is amazing!

Bill
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: energy1234hope on May 07, 2011, 02:16:22 AM
Brilliant Romerouk well done sir. Its experimentors like you that change the world. I am a newbe here from the land down under and been following overunity.com for a few years now as a guest. Joined a couple of days ago. well done again. :D  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 07, 2011, 02:55:05 AM
well done, first one that shows some progress.
who is next? :)
what is the rotor diameter, thickness?

Thank you, just a cutting from the plastic shop, only 225mm by12.5mm, but was as big as they had.

In scaling up your picture I think your magnets are spaced two magnet diameters apart?  Can you say what the ohms are for a single coil?

What RPM does it turn? Pardon me If you have already said all of this, lol

Rgds Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 04:15:04 AM
Thank you, just a cutting from the plastic shop, only 225mm by12.5mm, but was as big as they had.

In scaling up your picture I think your magnets are spaced two magnet diameters apart?  Can you say what the ohms are for a single coil?

What RPM does it turn? Pardon me If you have already said all of this, lol

Rgds Ron


The coils are the most in important part. as much information as possible will be better.

the rest I can make all looks very clever because it keep as simple as possible very cleaver Well done.

what are there OHMs ? what are there Henrie's? turns I think you have already stated. and so on?   
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 07, 2011, 04:33:51 AM
well, whatever :) call it litz, in UK is called Stranded Enamelled Copper -
Bunched copper conductors each strand individually enamelled
http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu
Ref: ST01250007-500

Hi Romero

I know two people myself and my good friend in AU that will be experimenting and building as time goes by this device.
Congratulations on your motor/generator.  Sometime can you elaborate on the tuning you do by moving the magnets on the
washers around and setting the distance of coils from rotor magnet?. 

Do you look for max RPM (hence minimum drag on rotor) with a fixed load on the generator coil you are "tuning"?  Does this occur with maximum voltage/current output from that particular pair or is there a strong interaction between neighboring coil sets and it is a slow process getting them all at a minimum drag/maximum output condition.  I am super impressed in that I can hear no speed change in the rotor with load applied, or even a slight increase.   It will take a few days or couple weeks to get the Disc and magnets in.  I have the Litz wire, coil forms, electronic parts, etc., that is no problem.  Work space is a major problem but....I will prevail!.  Will be back when I have relevant questions.  Thanks again for your openness, Those videos said so much.!!!!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 05:07:32 AM
Hi Romero,
many thanks for this wonderful device you have built
and for showing this openly in the public !
Congratulations.

This will really be a candidate for the overunity Prize.
Please don´t change anything on this device and try to rebuild a second unit.

Let me know, if I could come and have a look at it.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 07, 2011, 05:40:25 AM
Hi folks, Hi woopy, thanks for the suggestion, though while rotating the 4 magnet and 6 magnet rotor in cad, it appears a 6 magnet rotor will work just fine when using 5 stator coils per side.
I'm still working on my setup and will not post pictures, to not clutter thread, until it's done.
I thought about trying a Bedini style trigger coil as well, for whoever it was that suggested it.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 07, 2011, 05:57:53 AM
It WORKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !
I am going to upload the video, is almost 20 minutes of self running.
The skeptics should prepare the arsenal..... :)
Hoooyahhh!  Great Romero!  You really do great work and am so glad to see you have found success with this.   

I'm going to suggest everyone save every page of this message thread along with any video's and pictures.  This will preserve all the details no matter what and will also insure protection of Romerouk.  Although at this point I don't think there is any concern I think it is a good plan to follow. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 06:43:25 AM
There has been a lot of talk about the DC to DC converter.
What was its main function. Stepping up the voltage, isolation, both.
Where in this thread is it discussed?   
I have a few in my supply box have tried them on other motors but the efficiency was in question what switching chip did you use
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 07, 2011, 07:07:52 AM
Hi Rod

The DC-DC was to required to avoid burning up the driving coils - see back on early pages/posts.

This ensures 12v or wahtever to drive circuits.

Has the F&P crossed your mind in all of this. What a boom that would be eh!

Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 07:28:51 AM
Hi Rod

The DC-DC was to required to avoid burning up the driving coils - see back on early pages/posts.

This ensures 12v or wahtever to drive circuits.

Has the F&P crossed your mind in all of this. What a boom that would be eh!



Penno
Oh yes. The F&P is very important.  I am only going to add this to the project I am not dropping our current project what ever we learn from one will help the
other. I feel over all the years in this business we have seen many OU devices come and go I think a few of them where very real. this maybe one of them.I hope.
All the data that can be recoded from this thread should be. so its not lost and can be verified at a later date.
I have already started construction of this one.   

So you are Penno64 I kind a missed that. lol
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: kEhYo77 on May 07, 2011, 07:37:41 AM
Hi everyone. I always believed in Muller  odd / even type design.  I include my solution of this type of generator. I think it could be more efficient.
It is based on a monolithic toroid with columns type core made from magnetite/powdered iron mix with resin. Precise timing with micro controller could make it run better as well. The idea is to incorporate coil shortening at TDC of a pole vs core column only to turn a 'drag' into a 'repelling pulse'...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 07, 2011, 09:46:29 AM
There has been a lot of talk about the DC to DC converter.
What was its main function. Stepping up the voltage, isolation, both.
Where in this thread is it discussed?   
I have a few in my supply box have tried them on other motors but the efficiency was in question what switching chip did you use

Just in case it wasn't clear in penno64's answer the main function was to loop the output to the input with isolation and regulation thus eliminating the battery and proving OVERUNITY :) :) :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 09:56:28 AM
with most of the design its a pulse motor of a kind. the one thing i am very interested in is the use of the Litz wire. having seen the wire in old style CRT TVs
most of my life. I was always wondering what it may be like in a pulse motor setup. very cleaver use of this wire.
I have no doubt the hole design is relevant to its function but I would not leave out the coil configuration as a major part of its parameters.
having trouble getting the wire here in Aus. the main industrial supplier don't carry it.
 
How much wire did you buy as an average to build the motor. how much should i order?
cheers 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 07, 2011, 11:39:34 AM
Sorry to ask again, but this looks not clear to me: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616)

I thought you'd only need to use 4 diodes like this: http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg (http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg) , therfore I dont understand what this square shaped box in the middle is  ???
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 11:44:06 AM
Very interesting stuff!!! This should be the device of the year!

I think with the contribution and information sharing here, it is quite possible to replicate. I read thru all the posts here, I have a few remaining questions:

1) are the driving coils as far apart from each other as possible? or are they arbitrarily chosen?

2) when the driving coil fires up, does it strengthen the magnetism in the ferrite core or rather weaken instead?

3) any advice on tuning? what are the tuning parameters (my guess is: gaps between the rotor and stator, and # of washers between the magnet and the stator)? what are the general guidelines? what are you looking for?


I also got this wild conjecture somehow, might be totally wrong -- might help my understanding: can you use odd # of magnets on the roter and even # of coils on each of the stator?

Also, it seems to me, this device differs from Adams Motor mainly in the auxillary magnets that are attached to the stators.

Thanks to RomeroUK who shares this with all mankind -- this technology should definitely change the future of mankind if it is easily replicable and broadly applied. Thanks to all who facilitate the replication and spreading of this technology~!

cheers, lanenal
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 07, 2011, 11:52:30 AM
Sorry to ask again, but this looks not clear to me: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616)

I thought you'd only need to use 4 diodes like this: http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg (http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg) , therfore I dont understand what this square shaped box in the middle is  ???

The square shaped box symbolizes the 4 diodes you refer to in your second link.  You can clearly identify the AC inputs (~)  and DC outputs, just the diode symbols are not shown inside the box.  Clear?
It all shows that Romero used 4 more diodes, beside a full wave bridge, and the 4 diodes are connected parallel with the inside diodes.
This way a small decrease in forward voltage drop can be achieved for the 'compound' diode bridge so the power loss is decreased and mor power can reach the load.

Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 11:54:05 AM
Sorry to ask again, but this looks not clear to me: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616)

I thought you'd only need to use 4 diodes like this: http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg (http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg) , therfore I dont understand what this square shaped box in the middle is  ???
The square is a bridge rectifier and diodes are making another rectifier in parallel.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 07, 2011, 11:54:06 AM
Sorry to ask again, but this looks not clear to me: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284616#msg284616)

I thought you'd only need to use 4 diodes like this: http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg (http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/1674-4_diodes_bridge_rectifier.jpg) , therfore I dont understand what this square shaped box in the middle is  ???

@gauschor,

I think he first did use only the diode bridge. Then later on he added four 1N4007 to get two
diode bridges in parallel. He got more output that way. You can probably take both the bridge
and the 1N4007 away and use some fast Schottky diodes instead.

[Edit] Sorry, I did not see that there was posted answers to this already.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 11:57:46 AM
with most of the design its a pulse motor of a kind. the one thing i am very interested in is the use of the Litz wire. having seen the wire in old style CRT TVs
most of my life. I was always wondering what it may be like in a pulse motor setup. very cleaver use of this wire.
I have no doubt the hole design is relevant to its function but I would not leave out the coil configuration as a major part of its parameters.
having trouble getting the wire here in Aus. the main industrial supplier don't carry it.
 
How much wire did you buy as an average to build the motor. how much should i order?
cheers
I had one kg reel.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 12:04:08 PM
@gauschor,

I think he first did use only the diode bridge. Then later on he added four 1N4007 to get two
diode bridges in parallel. He got more output that way. You can probably take both the bridge
and the 1N4007 away and use some fast Schottky diodes instead.

[Edit] Sorry, I did not see that there was posted answers to this already.

GL.

One great idea leads to another.
I have built a few Adams motors in my time But i must try this as a immediate response to this great discovery. It will be a few days while i get the materials together But I am keen to start Now so I thought I would test the 9 coils and 8 magnets ASAP so I am modifying one of my Adams motors. doing this now.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 12:35:53 PM
The square is a bridge rectifier and diodes are making another rectifier in parallel.

I wonder if just two bridge rectifiers doubled together would be the same?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 07, 2011, 12:41:37 PM
Hmmm... ok, I think I understand now, thanks, gyulasun, RomeroUK, Groundloop
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
This one is much easier to build. I tested it with very good results.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 01:03:57 PM
The 'helper magnet' is separated from the coil by the thickness of the acrylic (1cm).On the acrylic is glued  a 1mm/20mm washer then the magnet on top.
I am driving in attraction mode. I have started the project in repulsion then tried attraction. I get much better torque in attraction.

Does the attraction mode work this way: the driving coil is switched on when the rotor magnet is approaching and then the driving coil is switched off at the TDC?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 07, 2011, 01:07:51 PM
@All,

My old Muller motor/dynamo has been collecting dust for 8 years now.

Now I have cleaned the motor and is wiring up the coils. I have
eight 32mm dia x 20mm Neo magnets in the rotor arranged NSNSNSNS.
(Can't make all the magnets the same side out. The magnets are
glued to the rotor.) I have 7 coils pairs. All coils are air core, so
no clogging. I use one coil pair as motor and 6 coil pairs as
dynamo. I have 30000uF 25 Volt capacitors. (Three 10000uF in parallel.)
My Muller is made of Bakelite (paper phenol).

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 01:10:27 PM
Hi Romero,
many thanks for this wonderful device you have built
and for showing this openly in the public !
Congratulations.

This will really be a candidate for the overunity Prize.
Please don´t change anything on this device and try to rebuild a second unit.

Let me know, if I could come and have a look at it.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
I am not planning to change it, I have already started building a new but bigger one.
I should be able to replicate my own work then expect others to do it.
Regarding comming to see it, personally I have no problem with that.
In the last few days I had so many requests from people to come and see it also someone said that it comes to buy it... without any previous discussions. This person calls himself Gary and somehow he's got my email. I don't remember posting my email anywhere here. I had a lot of discussions with my wife regarding this visits,... she is scared and she wants me to sell it and stop working on any device... I don't want to sell it and I have no intentions to do that.
After having my second unit working I might donate this one.
With you I think I have no problem comming here but let me talk with my wife first, the last think I need is a divorce. :)

Best regards,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: CTG Labs on May 07, 2011, 01:20:47 PM
Hi RomeroUK and congratulations!

I believe we only live few miles apart on opposite sides of the River Thames in London :)  I know you have had lots of interested parties requesting visits already but if you require any assistance, or a second person to test or validate then my self and my equipment are at your disposal :)

I was already talking to my buddy about replication.

Keep up the good work and best regards,

David.

PS. Yes do be careful, I ruined a relationship over this stuff many years ago and whats the point if you loose everything...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 07, 2011, 01:33:18 PM
@romerouk: when you post something here there is a small "Email" icon just below your name on the left side. Anyone can send you emails clicking that icon, however your real email address is still hidden, but the form will send it to your email address. You can however disable this icon completely in your profile settings.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 01:37:50 PM
Hi RomeroUK and congratulations!

I believe we only live few miles apart on opposite sides of the River Thames in London :)  I know you have had lots of interested parties requesting visits already but if you require any assistance, or a second person to test or validate then my self and my equipment are at your disposal :)

I was already talking to my buddy about replication.

Keep up the good work and best regards,

David.
Hi David,
What I would prefer is that someone, anyone, will replicate it and do as many presentations he wants.
I didn't think too much when I posted the video... this pressure is not what I want, I don't make this info public to achieve some merits or anything.Many people have only money in their heads... what about life, a good and simple life.
I believe that it should be free especially because I am not the inventor, I have only replicate it.
As I said before, all merits to Bill Muller.
No need for any assistance or validation, I know that now people having the information will make their results public and I can guarantee that in max one month at least one other person will confirm it.
Some time ago I was saying to myself that when I will have something working generating any OU value I will leave UK and go back to my origins, replicate it many times and get enough income to support me and my familly.Unfortunately this one is not my own Ideea and I cannot sell it, and believe me, I will leave UK tommorow.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 07, 2011, 01:37:59 PM
Hello Romero,
Thank you for your work and sharing information. I and my friends will start to make replica of unit ASAP. I think best protection for you is to share all information by internet, what you are doing now. If everybody will have all information, there is no sense to stop your job.
If you need some support and help please write to me.
Best Regards.
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 01:56:16 PM
@romerouk: when you post something here there is a small "Email" icon just below your name on the left side. Anyone can send you emails clicking that icon, however your real email address is still hidden, but the form will send it to your email address. You can however disable this icon completely in your profile settings.
I know that but I think if someone is sending an email from the forum I will show that was sent from here, in my case It was sent direct. No problem anyway, there are many places I have my email
used.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 01:56:20 PM
come to Australia. no one out here gives a #hit. They are not interested. We cannot get a bit of funding for jack.
you all talk about knowing each other I have never met a single person like my self.
you luck luck bastards. LOL
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 02:08:34 PM
...
If anyone is trying to replicate this please remember to do the testing with the load on and compensate the drag with the magnets on top of the coils


Can we say that the drag made by the driving coil is definitely greater than the repulsion caused by the helper magnet? It seems even if the drag is smaller than the repulsion (that is, the net result is a weaker repulsion), the device could still work?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 02:22:45 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7394.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7394.0)  ::)
What are you trying to say with this link? ...that I am a hoaxer too and I am hiding behind MIB reason...
It is so easy to stay and watch but just try to be in my position for a second or so... what will you do?
Will you fill your house with people? will you expose your family to unknown situations? if you do then probably you have no family yet.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 02:25:56 PM
Hi,
People should understand that when I am talking about stranded wire I am reffering to a bunch of wires isolated from each other.
In my understanding litz wire is a bunch of wires unisolated like in a normal power cord.
I am specifying this just to make sure everyone understands.
English is not my first language, sometimes might have some mistakes...

Regards,
RomeroUK

Hi Romero,
so you are using the wires normally found in AM radio coils ?
These stranded wires that are isolated to each other by candle wax ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 07, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
What are you trying to say with this link? ...that I am a hoaxer too and I am hiding behind MIB reason...
It is so easy to stay and watch but just try to be in my position for a second or so... what will you do?
Will you fill your house with people? will you expose your family to unknown situations? if you do then probably you have no family yet.

Romero, just ignore such posts. That's the only attack-profile these guys have really.

Could you maybe also elaborate a bit on your Kromrey-based device you mentioned a page earlier?
There is some threads on it, but you also seem to be the first man who built that one successfully then.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 02:35:21 PM
What are you trying to say with this link? ...that I am a hoaxer too and I am hiding behind MIB reason...
It is so easy to stay and watch but just try to be in my position for a second or so... what will you do?
Will you fill your house with people? will you expose your family to unknown situations? if you do then probably you have no family yet.

Romero ,
you are right.

I have set user Chef onto moderation.

Romero,
please posts a few more pictures of your device,
if it is possible.
I am currently compiling all your answers into a single file and
will also translate them into German language for the overunity.de
forum.

I will also add all the posted pics to the first page of this thread.

Many thanks for your hard successful work.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 02:37:15 PM
Hi Romero,
so you are using the wires normally found in AM radio coils ?
These stranded wires that are isolated to each other by candle wax ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
I think we have a confusion with the wires. probably because i call it different that others.I have posted on the previous page the exact type of wire(model, reference number, source) I used for the recovery coils. The driving coils are using wire recovered from the deflection coil in monitors, many wires there, never counted but still totals about 0.8 - 0.9mm
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 07, 2011, 02:40:11 PM
Congratulations and well done Romero
As this is now your thread and you want it to be for people replicating your device,I have started another thread for general discussions about this ground breaking device of yours.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10700.new#new (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10700.new#new)

I hope members will respect those who are replicating and give them the space they need.
Ps I hope nobody minds, it can easily be deleted.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 02:46:10 PM
Romero, just ignore such posts. That's the only attack-profile these guys have really.

Could you maybe also elaborate a bit on your Kromrey-based device you mentioned a page earlier?
There is some threads on it, but you also seem to be the first man who built that one successfully then.

Keep up the good work!
I am not the only one who tested and confirmed Kromrey design.
In my setup I have no moving coils, the magnets are turning.No rings, less friction....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTDGtSKrLPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCJKCXXZb-Y&feature=related
the second video people should pay attention and understand ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX-PsJZzri8&feature=related
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 02:48:43 PM
If I manage replicate it I am going to stick it to the establishment. I am open source all the way. I have been screwed by the electric company's long enough
It worked for Bill gates it will work for us.  Why is the IBM pc the only computer platform? Open architecture. remember. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
What are you trying to say with this link? ...that I am a hoaxer too and I am hiding behind MIB reason...
It is so easy to stay and watch but just try to be in my position for a second or so... what will you do?
Will you fill your house with people? will you expose your family to unknown situations? if you do then probably you have no family yet.

Safety first. There is really no point visiting your house except for proving that you are not faking something -- I think the information shared here is good enough for replications -- keep helping real replicators by sharing information here if you can. If nobody can't replicate it, just let people call it a hoax or a fake, it is OK. That's what I would do in this situation. Because we are all aware that thre are dangerous people out there!!! I would even suggest stefan not to visit but wait till replications coming out, because this could expose his address and identity.

Edit: Finally, the whole point of doing this is that we can have it shared and spread out WITHOUT physical contact, but only through this virtual reality. And this will make it possible to educate people and mass replicate the "KNOWLEDGE", not just the device.

With that ultimate goal in mind, you should only let people visit you when you feel you are unable to communicate the technical details and specs without the help of others -- which is highly unlikely.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 03:00:13 PM
I had an email from 'skycollection' , people should know him for all his nice and tidy devices he posted on youtube.
In my opinion this guy is going to be the first to replicate it, I like his work, million times more tidier than me and other persons.
I wish him good luck!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 03:11:55 PM
where are the hall sensors?

is the hall sensor detecting the drive magnets or are there small individual magnets mounted els where?
is there only one sensor. do the drive coils pulse on every magnet as it passes.   
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 03:14:27 PM
2 hall sensors. I will take some closer pictures to see them.The side of the rotor has small magnets with south pointing out.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Arthurs on May 07, 2011, 03:14:27 PM
Hi romerouk

Have two questions:

1) Why is the 8 magnets- 9 coil, In accordance with the muller generator structure, seems 9 magnets- 8 coil More reasonable?

2) Core diameter of the coil you use 6mm, Diameter of the core diameter and the magnet seems rather, the effect will be even better?

I'm ready to replicate, The above issues should I choose?

Thank you for your answer
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 03:17:37 PM
magnets for hall sensors
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 03:19:50 PM
2 hall sensors. I will take some closer pictures to see them.The side of the rotor has small magnets with south pointing out.
what is the size of the trigger magnets as that determines the pulse width is that a correct assumption.
thank you for your attention I am documenting every peace of info I can get from this blog.
have made the disc and installing the magnets at the moment.   
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 03:21:00 PM
magnets for hall sensors
you are a legend. you should be remembered with Tesla.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 03:24:35 PM
magnets for hall sensors

how many trigger around the disc ? I assume 8
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 03:27:09 PM
Hi Stefan,
I am not planning to change it, I have already started building a new but bigger one.
I should be able to replicate my own work then expect others to do it.
Regarding comming to see it, personally I have no problem with that.
In the last few days I had so many requests from people to come and see it also someone said that it comes to buy it... without any previous discussions. This person calls himself Gary and somehow he's got my email. I don't remember posting my email anywhere here. I had a lot of discussions with my wife regarding this visits,... she is scared and she wants me to sell it and stop working on any device... I don't want to sell it and I have no intentions to do that.
After having my second unit working I might donate this one.
With you I think I have no problem comming here but let me talk with my wife first, the last think I need is a divorce. :)

Best regards,
RomeroUK


Hi Romero,
no problem,
just don´t rush anything.

Better first document it all and rebuild a second protype and then
you can decide yourself.

I don´t want to be your wife to be mad at you.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 03:29:03 PM
how many trigger around the disc ? I assume 8

I suppose it is the same # of neo magnets on the rotor.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gotoluc on May 07, 2011, 03:29:49 PM
Hello romerouk and all

My congratulations romerouk on your dedication and hard work towards the research of free energy solutions.

I have a concern on your previous video to the self runner.

Below are frames taken from your video before and after the bulb is turned on. I can see that the amp meter doesn't change however, there is a large drop in your Battery voltage every time the bulb is turned on. Then when the bulb is turned off the battery voltage recovers from the load.

Can you explain. Sorry if this has been explained before.

Thank you for sharing your excellent research.

Luc
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 03:30:13 PM
Hi Romero,

does your wire look like this,
but just all strands isolated ?

http://www.an-wallis.co.uk/uploads/images_products/1/555.jpg

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 03:36:06 PM
Hi Romero,
what is the spacing from the 2 driver coil pairs to the
pickup coil pairs ?

What is the interleaving there ?
Do you have the 2 driving coil pairs next to each other
or are they like:

1 driver coilpair,
4 pickup coil pairs
1 driver coilpair,
3 pickup coil pairs

?

Do you have an magnet polarity measurement device ?

Can you exactly say, if all the magnets inside the rotor
pointing up, when you have the device standing on your table,
are north or are all magnets inside the rotor pointing up
have south pole ?

It might be interesting to know this.
Maybe if you turn around your device on the
head (180 degrees turn),
will it still selfrun ?

So this could be an easy test to see, if your local
earth magnet field has anything to do with it and the devices direction
to it.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 03:36:12 PM
Hello romerouk and all

My congratulations romerouk on your dedication and hard work towards the research of free energy solutions.

I have a concern on your previous video to the self runner.

Below are frames taken from your video before and after the bulb is turned on. I can see that the amp meter doesn't change however, there is a large drop in your Battery voltage every time the bulb is turned on. Then when the bulb is turned off the battery voltage recovers from the load.

Can you explain. Sorry if this has been explained before.

Thank you for sharing your excellent research.

Luc

Yeah, this one is ansswered already, see below:

Quote
I had few questions from the 'replicators' here about voltage on the battery going down when the load is on.
The reason for that is that from the output bridge rectifier I am using one diode to send power back to the battery to keep it charged.When the 20watt bulb is connected the power going back to the battery is reduced resulting that slight voltage drop.
This setup was built for about 25watt load, if the load is increased then all setup must be changed.
The gap from the coils to the rotor must be changed and some other things ...

Basically from my understanding, the 20w bulb is too heavy a load for the system...if it were a 5w bulb, you should see no voltage drop at all.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 03:41:37 PM
Hi Romero,
what is the spacing from the 2 driver coil pairs to the
pickup coil pairs ?

What is the interleaving there ?
Do you have the 2 driving coil pairs next to each other
or are they like:

1 driver coilpair,
4 pickup coil pairs
1 driver coilpair,
3 pickup coil pairs

?

Do you have an magnet polarity measurement device ?

Can you exactly say, if all the magnets inside the rotor
pointing up, when you have the device standing on your table,
are north or are all magnets inside the rotor pointing up
have south pole ?

It might be interesting to know this.
Maybe if you turn around your device on the
head (180 degrees turn),
will it still selfrun ?

So this could be an easy test to see, if your local
earth magnet field has anything to do with it and the devices direction
to it.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

I also asked about the coil spacing before...

Note that this is actually different from the original Muller device: on the Muller device, ALL coils serve as driving coil AND power generation coil, but in turn. RomeroUK has made this much simpler by using dedecated driving coils and generation coils. This is a great simplification.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gotoluc on May 07, 2011, 04:09:28 PM
Yeah, this one is ansswered already, see below:

Basically from my understanding, the 20w bulb is too heavy a load for the system...if it were a 5w bulb, you should see no voltage drop at all.

So Romero has gone from a large voltage drop with battery connected when the bulb is on to a self runner using the same load with no battery connected?

These are amazing improvements!!!

@Romero, can you please redo a continuous sound video with your Muller on a glass (away from the legs) showing it running the load with no battery. Please do a view under the glass and all around as it is running.

Thanks for sharing and your time.

Luc
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 07, 2011, 04:24:15 PM
@ Romero:

Thanks for the links, i have not been aware of the youtube replicators concerning the Kromrey device.

Does your Muller device also run cold at some points? Have you tested that?

For anyone interested in more information on this, Energy from the Vacuum Part 10 shows Bedini running a Kromrey Converter and explaining the principle.





Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 04:26:37 PM
Hi Romero,
what is the spacing from the 2 driver coil pairs to the
pickup coil pairs ?

What is the interleaving there ?
Do you have the 2 driving coil pairs next to each other
or are they like:

1 driver coilpair,
4 pickup coil pairs
1 driver coilpair,
3 pickup coil pairs

?

Do you have an magnet polarity measurement device ?

Can you exactly say, if all the magnets inside the rotor
pointing up, when you have the device standing on your table,
are north or are all magnets inside the rotor pointing up
have south pole ?

It might be interesting to know this.
Maybe if you turn around your device on the
head (180 degrees turn),
will it still selfrun ?

So this could be an easy test to see, if your local
earth magnet field has anything to do with it and the devices direction
to it.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
what is the spacing from the 2 driver coil pairs to the
pickup coil pairs ?
I don't understand this question.
The 2 driver coils are not next to each other, one coil is on one side and the other exactly on the other side.
All magnets on the rotor are all pointing same direction, as you look at the device all magnets are with South up. I have never tried to run it upside down because of the dirving circuits but I will try it having it on one side.
I don't have a  magnet polarity measurement device. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 04:30:12 PM
So Romero has gone from a large voltage drop with battery connected when the bulb is on to a self runner using the same load with no battery connected?

These are amazing improvements!!!

@Romero, can you please redo a continuous sound video with your Muller on a glass (away from the legs) showing it running the load with no battery. Please do a view under the glass and all around as it is running.

Thanks for sharing and your time.

Luc
Hi,
I don't have a glass that size but I will organise something like having it hanging with a piece of string, maybe that is even better.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 04:36:08 PM
what is the spacing from the 2 driver coil pairs to the
pickup coil pairs ?
I don't understand this question.
The 2 driver coils are not next to each other, one coil is on one side and the other exactly on the other side.
All magnets on the rotor are all pointing same direction, as you look at the device all magnets are with South up. I have never tried to run it upside down because of the dirving circuits but I will try it having it on one side.
I don't have a  magnet polarity measurement device.

Hmm,
now I don´t understand your answer.

You say you have 9 coil pairs.

Which coil pairs are the 2 drivers and which coil pairs
are the pickup coil pairs ?

Maybe you can number them like a clock.
1 o´clock driver pair,
2 o´clock pickup coil pair
3 o´clock pickup coil pair
4 o´clock pickup coil pair
5 o´clock pickup coil pair
etc... ?

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 07, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
what is the spacing from the 2 driver coil pairs to the pickup coil pairs ? I don't understand this question.

If I understood correctly, stefan is asking about the relative position of the driving coils. Namely you have 2 pairs for driving purpose, and 7 pairs for power generation. Those pairs are evenly fixed on the stator plates. If we number the pairs clockwise from 1 through 9, and let the first pair be a driving coil pair, the question is, what is the number for the other driving pair?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 04:47:53 PM
coil 1 and 6 are the driving coils from the left to the right.
I will go back to some more work now, I'll answer other questions later.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 07, 2011, 04:48:36 PM
If I understood correctly, stefan is asking about the relative position of the driving coils. Namely you have 2 pairs for driving purpose, and 7 pairs for power generation. Those pairs are evenly fixed on the stator plates. If we number the pairs clockwise from 1 through 9, and let the first pair be a driving coil pair, the question is, what is the number for the other driving pair?

Number five...three gen coils between the drive coils on one side four gen coils on the other side because 9 doesn't divide evenly

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: dutchy1966 on May 07, 2011, 04:50:04 PM
Hmm,
now I don´t understand your answer.

You say you have 9 coil pairs.

Which coil pairs are the 2 drivers and which coil pairs
are the pickup coil pairs ?

Just look at the pictures he supplied you can easily see it on there:

driving coil 1 --- 4x generator coils --- driver coil 2 --- 3x generator coil

Hope that helps.

regards

Dutchy
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 04:59:49 PM
Parts left from my previous attempts. I might be able to use some towards the new build.
I am thinking to double the number of coils and magnets too. 3 driving coils will be better.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 07, 2011, 05:00:06 PM
So Romero has gone from a large voltage drop with battery connected when the bulb is on to a self runner using the same load with no battery connected?

These are amazing improvements!!!

@Romero, can you please redo a continuous sound video with your Muller on a glass (away from the legs) showing it running the load with no battery. Please do a view under the glass and all around as it is running.

Thanks for sharing and your time.

Luc

Good to see you here Gotoluc, I have followed romero's work for a long time and can tell you straight out there is no hanky panky going on. You and Harti need to read the thread and just replicate, that is all he asks.

Lets all respect romero's privacy and patience.

Regards, Ron


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Arthurs on May 07, 2011, 05:21:12 PM
Hi romerouk

Have two questions:

1) Why is the 8 magnets- 9 coil, In accordance with the muller generator structure, seems 9 magnets- 8 coil More reasonable?

2) Core diameter of the coil you use 6mm, Diameter of the core diameter and the magnet seems rather, the effect will be even better?

I'm ready to replicate, The above issues should I choose?

Thank you for your answer
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 05:22:21 PM
First picture shows 2 motors that are almost OU when comming from factory.They come with Muller arangements inside already.I have left info about them but looks that it was missed.
This is probably the easiest way for people to try Muller's config.You don't get a lot out but more than in.I have tested it with another normal dc motor to drive the shaft.Come on people, this one is cheap, search on ebay for it.You need to redo the windings again to have sections of 2 coils next to each other forming one set, coil up and coil down from my larger device.I used 0.3mm single wire.

Second pic shows more parts that are going to be used to the next device.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Arthurs on May 07, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
Hi Romero

Total use of several small magnets?
All are uniformly placed in the top of the rotor circle?

Thank you
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 07, 2011, 06:18:00 PM
@Arthurs . Please respect that Romerouk is under pressure . Please read through all the thread and that will answer 99% of your questions . There are 8 equally spaced magnets on the rotor .Hope that helps .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 07, 2011, 06:34:56 PM
Hi Romero

how a lot of question and thank's so much to have this patience.

I am at my shop and doing the rotor. I would like to be very near from your config.

So I have a small problem. If i take some measurement on your set up and my CAD drawing, it seems that the spacing between magnets arround the disk  is not correct if i use 20mm diameter magnet on a 25 cm rotor disk.

On my CAD design or the rotor is 25 cm and in this case the magnet should be 25 mm diameter, or the rotor is 20 cm diameter and the magnet are 20 mm diameter

Can you please remeasure your rotor disk diameter and 20 mm magnet diameter.

 ( on the pix the black circle are the magnet 20 mm and the red circle are the coil with the 6 mm ferrite core  the rotor is 20 cm diameter. the wood rotor bottom is 25 cm and you see the 20 mm diameter magnet seems very small on this disk)

 Many thanks

Good luck for the future ;)

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Arthurs on May 07, 2011, 06:38:07 PM
@Arthurs . Please respect that Romerouk is under pressure . Please read through all the thread and that will answer 99% of your questions . There are 8 equally spaced magnets on the rotor .Hope that helps .
I'm sorry, and thank you for answers!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: void109 on May 07, 2011, 06:56:56 PM
I believe I read that he is using two hall sensors.  I also believe I read that we are trying to activate the pickup coils at TDC of the magnet.

Which of those two statements are incorrect?  Or both?  With a 9/8 ratio of magnets to coils, and only two hall sensors to set trigger points, I don't see how it is possible for each of the coils to activate at the same relative position to the nearest approaching magnet.  Looking at the CAD drawing woopy took a photo of illustrates this.

Wouldn't it be the case that each coil would need its own hall sensor?

Thanks Rom!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 06:58:54 PM
Hi Romero

how a lot of question and thank's so much to have this patience.

I am at my shop and doing the rotor. I would like to be very near from your config.

So I have a small problem. If i take some measurement on your set up and my CAD drawing, it seems that the spacing between magnets arround the disk  is not correct if i use 20mm diameter magnet on a 25 cm rotor disk.

On my CAD design or the rotor is 25 cm and in this case the magnet should be 25 mm diameter, or the rotor is 20 cm diameter and the magnet are 20 mm diameter

Can you please remeasure your rotor disk diameter and 20 mm magnet diameter.

 ( on the pix the black circle are the magnet 20 mm and the red circle are the coil with the 6 mm ferrite core  the rotor is 20 cm diameter. the wood rotor bottom is 25 cm and you see the 20 mm diameter magnet seems very small on this disk)

 Many thanks

Good luck for the future ;)

Laurent
Hi,
I have measured the rotor and it is 20cm, sorry. I had so many changes and I also had a 25cm and a 35 cm rotor in another setup.
Diameter has nothing to do with the results if u space the magnets equally.
Based on previous tests larger diameter  = better results.
All other dimensions are 100% correct.
I have just tried to have the device running on the side and even upside down.
On the side looks the same but upside down slows down a lot.It might be nothing, maybe the way the bearings are behaving in contact with the shaft, I am not sure yet.
I am trying now to have it suspended with a piece of cotton string and do a video.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 07:02:45 PM
I believe I read that he is using two hall sensors.  I also believe I read that we are trying to activate the pickup coils at TDC of the magnet.

Which of those two statements are incorrect?  Or both?  With a 9/8 ratio of magnets to coils, and only two hall sensors to set trigger points, I don't see how it is possible for each of the coils to activate at the same relative position to the nearest approaching magnet.  Looking at the CAD drawing woopy took a photo of illustrates this.

Wouldn't it be the case that each coil would need its own hall sensor?

Thanks Rom!
The 2 driving coils are running independently, not activating at the same time, that is what I need, to have the second coil activating when the other one is completely off
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 07, 2011, 07:18:57 PM
Thank's a lot Romero

and now lets go drilling

yepeee ;D

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gotoluc on May 07, 2011, 07:33:56 PM
Hi,
I don't have a glass that size but I will organise something like having it hanging with a piece of string, maybe that is even better.

Hi romerouk,

thank you for the reply and offer. I would not want you to waste your valuable time at this point.

Using wires to hold it up would only bring more questions as they could be used as conductors.

The best way would be to use a glass but the generator needs to be away from the supports. You also need to replace that large Capacitor. It looks like it's much higher voltage value than you need. Replace it with the same uF value but in the voltage range your generator is working in, then it would be much smaller so people couldn't say you have Laptop batteries in there.

If you cannot do the above then don't spend time on it as it would not help.

Thanks for your time.

Luc
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 07, 2011, 07:34:58 PM
A plea to all computer wizz kids . I would not know a cad if it jumped up and bit me . Could someone post a diagram of two circles ,with lines radiating from the centre to the circumference . One circle to have 8 spokes and one 7 spokes . Then one could print these , stick them to discs , and use them as a drilling guide for rotor and stator . Just a thought .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 07, 2011, 07:52:03 PM
Maybe it would help to know the math for the angles between coils and also magnets.  Easy enough to calculate at 45° for 8 equally spaced in a circle and 40° for 9 equally spaced in the circle.  A couple basic drafting tools (even school kids type should work) and you can do the layout.  Just put coils and magnets same exact distance from center on these angles and you've got it.  That way you don't even need to know the distance between them as long as the angles are correct and the distance from absolute center is the same. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 07, 2011, 07:56:23 PM
A plea to all computer wizz kids . I would not know a cad if it jumped up and bit me . Could someone post a diagram of two circles ,with lines radiating from the centre to the circumference . One circle to have 8 spokes and one 7 spokes . Then one could print these , stick them to discs , and use them as a drilling guide for rotor and stator . Just a thought .

Did you mean 9 spokes rather than 7 ?  You do have a good idea there and if it's done as a .jpg most programs can easily resize it for any other rotor sizes being built.  What I mentioned above should cover it too and can be easily adjust for different magnet sizes by centering the magnet over your angle lines. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: teslaalset on May 07, 2011, 07:57:45 PM
Maybe it would help to know the math for the angles between coils and also magnets.  Easy enough to calculate at 45° for 8 equally spaced in a circle and 40° for 9 equally spaced in the circle.  A couple basic drafting tools (even school kids type should work) and you can do the layout.  Just put coils and magnets same exact distance from center on these angles and you've got it.  That way you don't even need to know the distance between them as long as the angles are correct and the distance from absolute center is the same.

Neptune,

I normally do this in Excel, using doughnut graphs.
I've attached a zipped Excel file example of one you can use.
The excel example contains 3 donuts, 7, 8 and 9 segments.

The thickness of the doughnuts can be adjusted by rightclick on the doughnut graph and then click 'Format data series'. You will get a window that looks like the one below.
Play around with the sliders to get the appearance you want.
Don't use the picture of the doughnut, it's just for example, use the zip file just above the slider picture.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Bruce_TPU on May 07, 2011, 08:08:15 PM
Hi Romero,
Congratulations!  Very well done, indeed.  Thank you for publicly showing your working replication of the Muller device.

Hi Groundloop,

Your drawing, showed the magnets between the coil ends and the rotor, in repulsion, but Romero, says he is driving them in attraction, yet approved your drawing.  I would just like clarification, and if it is attraction, to readjust the picture perhaps..   ;)  Aside from that, the picture is awesome, and a big help.  Thank you!

At ALL,
The individually stranded wire, in Romero's setup is simply reducing the resistance of the wire, allowing for greater output.  Often, coils are engineered with large diameter wire, for low resistance, but often, this results in lower number of turns, thus less inductance per coil.  This is easily overcome, by using individually insulated wire, for even less resistance, and also a greater number of turns per coil resulting in greater inductance, less resistance and greater output.  Take the resistance of the wire, for said number of feet (length) and divide that by the number of wires you are running in parallel, and this will give you the new resistance of said stranded wire.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 07, 2011, 08:18:18 PM
Hi Romero,
Congratulations!  Very well done, indeed.  Thank you for publicly showing your working replication of the Muller device.

Hi Groundloop,

Your drawing, showed the magnets between the coil ends and the rotor, in repulsion, but Romero, says he is driving them in attraction, yet approved your drawing.  I would just like clarification, and if it is attraction, to readjust the picture perhaps..   ;)  Aside from that, the picture is awesome, and a big help.  Thank you!

At ALL,
The individually stranded wire, in Romero's setup is simply reducing the resistance of the wire, allowing for greater output.  Often, coils are engineered with large diameter wire, for low resistance, but often, this results in lower number of turns, thus less inductance per coil.  This is easily overcome, by using individually insulated wire, for even less resistance, and also a greater number of turns per coil resulting in greater inductance, less resistance and greater output.  Take the resistance of the wire, for said number of feet (length) and divide that by the number of wires you are running in parallel, and this will give you the new resistance of said stranded wire.

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

The magnets and rotor was the only part of my drawing that I did not draw. :-)
It was a copy from Romero's drawing, so you must ask him.

Attached is the updated drawing.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Bruce_TPU on May 07, 2011, 08:34:13 PM
Hi Groundloop,

I see now, he is showing the ferrite core of each coil magnatized and thus being magnatized, it is indeed in attraction mode to the rotor magnets.  Perhaps that is what he meant.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 07, 2011, 08:44:03 PM
Further to Bruce`s post above . How to make your own Litz wire for these coils . Get some enamelled wire with a diameter of 0.125 mm . Your local electric motor rewind shop is a good source .This wire is very thin so work carefully . First and hardest part is estimating the length of wire needed for each coil .Let us guess , an average length of one inch per turn . So 300 turns would be 300 inches or 25 feet . If your workshop is less than 25 feet long , work outside . Mount 2 hooks 25 feet apart facing each other , on wall bench clothes posts etc . Attach the loose end of your wire to a hook , walk to the other hook , loop the wire round it and walk back . Walk back and forth 7 times , looping at each hook until you have made 7 trips .Tie off the wire at the hook and cut the wire . Bind the 7 strands together with tape near each hook . Now slip one end of the bundle off a hook andput a screwdriver through the loop where the hook fitted . Use the screwdriver to twist the strands together loosely . Cut off the loop at one end and carefully remove the enamel and solder the wires together . Use this end to start winding your coil , and wind the desired number of turns .You will then probably find your bundle was too long .cut off the excess and measure it .   Subtract its length from 25 feet , and adjust your hooks for the next performance . Finally strip and solder the ends together .Hope this will help someone .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 08:44:33 PM
Hi Groundloop.
thanks for the updated picture, but this
could be a bit misleading, as the core of the driver coils are still
ferrite and no magnets.
So maybe you can change it this way, that you just only paint North and Soutpole
by letters there and write beside it, that these are the generated fields from the transistor driver ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 08:58:17 PM
Hi All,
here are now the backups of the RomeroUK Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVU3ZM14rw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YqCp84IOE


Romero, how many times per revolution of the rotor disc is each
driver coil pair energized ?

8 times ?

But each driver coil pair is out of sync to the other driver
coil pair, right ?
So there are 8 + 8 = 16  driver coil pulses per revolution
of the rotor disc ?

Do you have a scope , so you could show the waveform on
one of the pickup coil pairs ?
That would really help to analyze it.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 07, 2011, 09:05:14 PM
Estimates for coil wire length

my cores are 15mm x 10mm

15mm (ferrite core) / 0.6mm(wire diameter) = 25 (turns per layer)

300(turns) / 25(turns) = 12 (number of layers)

Layer 1; 10mm dia x pi = 31.4mm (per turn) x 25 (total turns for layer) = 785mm

Increase core dia by 1.2mm for each of the 12 layers

I calculate for 12 layers of 0.6 wire on a 10mm core will total 15.637metres

I hope this helps
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: totoalas on May 07, 2011, 09:09:26 PM
Hi Romerouk
As neptune suggested with ceramic magnets from microwave ovens
Im interested with the output  wattage it can produce????? ???
Also instead of the driver coils ,   i will try  the rotor from a vacuum machine  with carbon contacts  direct dc  to rotate the magnets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q4QRFELr5A&feature=channel_video_title
Trying to replicate the set up on a low budget
cheers  and regards to Groundloop ::) ::)

totoalas


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 07, 2011, 09:14:37 PM
@bourne. many thanks for that calculation . With home made multistrand  it will never wind as neat as you expect . I recomend adding 40 to50% to the calculation for the first try . Then you can refine the length as  I previously said .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 07, 2011, 09:32:15 PM
@neptune.

Thanks, It's an 'ideal world' calculation and of course does not include tails and imperfections.

I thought I would post it because the difference between layer1 (785mm) and layer12 (1821mm) is quite large and may lead to underestimating the length needed to complete 300 turns.

This is a great thread.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 09:40:15 PM
Further to Bruce`s post above . How to make your own Litz wire for these coils . Get some enamelled wire with a diameter of 0.125 mm . Your local electric motor rewind shop is a good source .This wire is very thin so work carefully . First and hardest part is estimating the length of wire needed for each coil .Let us guess , an average length of one inch per turn . So 300 turns would be 300 inches or 25 feet . If your workshop is less than 25 feet long , work outside . Mount 2 hooks 25 feet apart facing each other , on wall bench clothes posts etc . Attach the loose end of your wire to a hook , walk to the other hook , loop the wire round it and walk back . Walk back and forth 7 times , looping at each hook until you have made 7 trips .Tie off the wire at the hook and cut the wire . Bind the 7 strands together with tape near each hook . Now slip one end of the bundle off a hook andput a screwdriver through the loop where the hook fitted . Use the screwdriver to twist the strands together loosely . Cut off the loop at one end and carefully remove the enamel and solder the wires together . Use this end to start winding your coil , and wind the desired number of turns .You will then probably find your bundle was too long .cut off the excess and measure it .   Subtract its length from 25 feet , and adjust your hooks for the next performance . Finally strip and solder the ends together .Hope this will help someone .

thanks thats a great idea
I have the wire never accrued to me to wind my own.


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 07, 2011, 09:45:32 PM
Hi All,
here are now the backups of the RomeroUK Videos:

RomeroUK + Muller generator = 10 W free energy HD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1lBhkZI7Ds

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 07, 2011, 09:45:44 PM
@toranarod .Poverty is a great educator ! Pleased to be of service ,but thats what these threads are for .If we all put something in , the net result will be wonderful .Thanks for posting the rotor diagram . Do you plan to one for the stator please .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 07, 2011, 09:57:02 PM
(Hi, I am still not 100% clear on the electric circuit in how the remaining things are connected, in which order and where to. I have now drawn a picture, can someone look at it and correct it if its wrong and clear up the few points )


EDITED: picture corrected, after schematic from Groundloop, and tipp from gyulasun
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 10:03:35 PM
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu 500g

If the wire comes in 500g rolls anybody know how much we would need to make all the coils in the motor?
any ideas Please?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 10:06:13 PM
Hi, I am still not 100% clear on the electric circuit in how the remaining things are connected, in which order and where to. I have now drawn a picture, can someone look at it and correct it if its wrong and clear up the few points where I added a question mark?

can i say this is very helpful it would be very close if not correct
thanks
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 10:10:36 PM
@toranarod .Poverty is a great educator ! Pleased to be of service ,but thats what these threads are for .If we all put something in , the net result will be wonderful .Thanks for posting the rotor diagram . Do you plan to one for the stator please .
thank you
we are all working around the clock I have not slept yet more to come
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 07, 2011, 10:12:40 PM
Hi, I am still not 100% clear on the electric circuit in how the remaining things are connected, in which order and where to. I have now drawn a picture, can someone look at it and correct it if its wrong and clear up the few points where I added a question mark?

I believe it is ok, no need for the question marks, and yes the output from the DC-DC converter goes back to the two Hall switch circuits.

EDIT: The place of the bulb: if I recall correctly Romery connected it across the output of the DC-DC converter. It is a user choice, the main generator output is across the big puffer capacitor i.e. the input to the DC-DC converter.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 07, 2011, 10:45:07 PM
@groundloop and our other EE wizzkids

I can't remember if this has been mentioned before

I have been searching around for the Hall effect sensors and have found the A3144uea has been discontinued.

One of the manufacturers suggests the A1120EUA-T as an alternative

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6 (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6)

would you agree this is what we need?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 10:47:33 PM
thanks thats a great idea
I have the wire never accrued to me to wind my own.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 07, 2011, 10:49:23 PM
@groundloop and our other EE wizzkids

I can't remember if this has been mentioned before

I have been searching around for the Hall effect sensors and have found the A3144uea has been discontinued.

One of the manufacturers suggests the A1120EUA-T as an alternative

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6 (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6)

would you agree this is what we need?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 07, 2011, 10:56:15 PM
Thanks gyulasun, and thanks to Groundloop drawings, I have updated the picture from last post with the correct order, hopefully it's correct now.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 07, 2011, 11:00:36 PM
@groundloop and our other EE wizzkids

I can't remember if this has been mentioned before

I have been searching around for the Hall effect sensors and have found the A3144uea has been discontinued.

One of the manufacturers suggests the A1120EUA-T as an alternative

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6 (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6)

would you agree this is what we need?

Here is the manufacturer recommendation on replacement:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/3141/ 

so it is type A1104 which is available as replacement.

EDIT type A1120 is a more precise (chopper stabilized) type, probably more expensive, with the same voltage and 25mA output current ratings. So not really needed once the A1104 would do. Of course prices are to be compared, I do not know by heart...  :)   ALSO: any such type should work like toranarod suggests above

Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 07, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
@Groundloop.
You made your last correction for the magnet fields wrong inside the ferrite cores.

As red is North you just made the wrong polarity, so the magnet rotor will not be pulled into the core !
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Mem on May 07, 2011, 11:12:13 PM
Here is my replication of a Muller Dynamo with few addons.

Muller generator magnets and coils were odd and even numbers. Like 17 magnets and 16 coils (or something like that) Looks like you created your own version.
ROMEROUK GENERATOR
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 07, 2011, 11:21:06 PM
Here is the manufacturer recommendation on replacement:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/3141/ 

so it is type A1104 which is available as replacement.

EDIT type A1120 is a more precise (chopper stabilized) type, probably more expensive, with the same voltage and 25mA output current ratings. So not really needed once the A1104 would do. Of course prices are to be compared, I do not know by heart...  :)   ALSO: any such type should work like toranarod suggests above

Gyula

Its only a minor detail but thanks for clearing that up Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: woopy on May 07, 2011, 11:57:56 PM
Voili voila

thanks Romero another time , so i made my rotor at 20 cm diameter 1 cm thick in POM ( polyacetal ) and please in a green color. just for fun ! ;)

The magnets are 20 mm diameter and 10 mm thick,

For the interested , the CAD program is TURBOCAD. Very easy to use

good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 08, 2011, 12:03:57 AM
Hi All,
I compiled a PDF file with all the important informations and graphics:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=469

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 08, 2011, 12:06:28 AM
@neptune
What is your longest looped run to date please?
Well the longest is the one I have recorded yesterday(about 20 min), after that I had no patience to sit and just look at it.I have some other projects in progress but this weekend I will have it running over night.

Hi RomeroUK

Were you successful in running the device overnight? Last time you said it ran 'looped' for 3.5 hrs. but was trying to run it longer until the neighbors complain? Can you update us please? Thanks.

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 08, 2011, 12:10:32 AM
Oh man, I can't express how amazing this all is, this really is a great thread. Much Much thanks to RomeroUK for showing us this gift!!! and all the people in here, working out the details together and helping each other... *shnieef*   :) :D :o :)

May I quote powercat from the other topic:
Quote
I hope we are witnessing the beginning of an energy revolution.
Which  will lead to Being able to grow food anywhere any time of day,Travel as  far as you want as often as you want, we all dream of it, is now the  time when the dream becomes true ?


                                                


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 08, 2011, 12:14:37 AM
Here is the updated setup picture from Groundloop with the
right magnetfield polarisation inside the ferrite cores, when the coils are energized
and the rotor magnets are attracted into the core gap.


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:17:13 AM
@gauschor
the picture you posted is 100% to what I have used.The circuits have some 0.1uf capacitors just for filtering... but that is not important.

To ALL:
This generator can be driven by many other circuits or from an external motor connected to the shaft.Don't concentrate too much on the circuit used to drive the coils, that is simple.
People replicating this should have a little bit more big coils (size and windings).
Each coil in my setup has an output of 11.1 -11.6DC after the bridge, not all the same as I have small diferences or misscount some turns during the making of the coils.Having them in parallel I get about 15volts at full speed.The amperage is good but I would prefer to have a bit more voltage.
Diodes on top of the bridge rectifiers are not 1n4007,  are 1n4001. I am sure I can get better rectifiers but this is what i had.The voltage drop is quite high and nothing works as it should.

@Stefan
I will connect a coil to the o-scope to get waveform...
I will have to do it tommorow as I have stopped working now, I am too tired now.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:23:40 AM
Hi RomeroUK

Were you successful in running the device overnight? Last time you said it ran 'looped' for 3.5 hrs. but was trying to run it longer until the neighbors complain? Can you update us please? Thanks.

cheers
chrisC
I had it running almost 5.5 hours without complaints from the neighbours
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 08, 2011, 12:28:44 AM
I had it running almost 5.5 hours without complaints from the neighbours

That's great news Romero. ;)

How much load (presumably a bulb) did you have on it during this time?

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 08, 2011, 12:49:00 AM
Ah I still got a question about the 2 Hall sensors (I didn't find the exact info the previous pages):

First of all I assume that the 8 small magnets (the ones pointing outwards on the side of the rotor) are in line with the 8 larger magnets. Is this correct?

Then the final question is: at which positions are the 2 Hall sensors placed: are both hall sensors just placed "before" each one of the driver coils? With "before" I mean in rotation direction before the driver coil)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:52:30 AM
That's great news Romero. ;)

How much load (presumably a bulb) did you have on it during this time?

.99
I had only a 5w bulb as with the 20w bulb the dc converter gets hot after some time.
I tried to add the bulb before the dc convertor but there is more than 12 volts and the bulb will not last.
This DC converter is max 3amp but I am very happy about it plus the price was very low. Nice device and I think that all people should have one, it helps a lot in any other builds where people are trying self looping.I has even load protection and thermal protection too.I have tried for a second a 50w bulb as load and it switched off imediately.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 08, 2011, 12:53:19 AM
Hi All,
I compiled a PDF file with all the important informations and graphics:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=469

Regards, Stefan.

nice work on the pdf the more this is documented the harder it will be to cover it up. They will try if history is anything to go by.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 01:04:24 AM
Ah I still got a question about the 2 Hall sensors (I didn't find the exact info the previous pages):

First of all I assume that the 8 small magnets (the ones pointing outwards on the side of the rotor) are in line with the 8 larger magnets. Is this correct?

Then the final question is: at which positions are the 2 Hall sensors placed: are both hall sensors just placed "before" each one of the driver coils? With "before" I mean in rotation direction before the driver coil)
Let's clarify some points regarding the sensors:
not both of them are using the small magnets.I started originally with both using the small magnets to switch then I tried to move one to get max results.
The second one is facing the big magnets from the top.This one from the top is activated after the magnet passed, the other one on the side of the rotor is activated like 1mm after the magnet passed the center coil.
This is difficult to explain, testing yourself will get you there but do the testing separate not both of then at the same time.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 08, 2011, 01:09:11 AM
I had only a 5w bulb as with the 20w bulb the dc converter gets hot after some time.
I tried to add the bulb before the dc convertor but there is more than 12 volts and the bulb will not last.
This DC converter is max 3amp but I am very happy about it plus the price was very low. Nice device and I think that all people should have one, it helps a lot in any other builds where people are trying self looping.I has even load protection and thermal protection too.I have tried for a second a 50w bulb as load and it switched off imediately.

what is type is your DC to DC converter

this is what I have
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 01:10:08 AM
If you want to make a powerful version consider carefully using a 3 phase motor into RV mode. When prepared properly degreased bearings and no fan etc RV will turn a very large rotor with as  little as 10 watts.  The motor also has your center bearing and the motor flange can be used to bolt directly the stator head.  See Kones construction details as he has been making these for well over a decade. This makes construction much faster, cheaper and stronger.

 As Romero stated the pulse driving of this generator is not important at all. That is only a method to turn the rotor.  So no need to worry about the hall devices and timing to drive it. Just rotate the damn thing! But make sure you use like >95% efficient motor.

Its only the construction and detail to the generator CORES and MAGNETS which provides the OU.  Driven by RV and using 2 inch neo magnets and 2 inch cores these can produce typical 25 volts at about 2 amp on 3000 rpm rotor each coil.  BUT when peak sine shorted these cores can produce 250/300 V each around 500mA = 125 watts per coil.  All 11 coils can now be generator coils and the o/p can be dumped into 2 off 750 Watt Computer power supplies to provide OU 1KW at 12v DC 85 amps! or 24v at 40 amps and use a battery charge controller.

Although these can run on DC they work even better HF AC or take out the first FWBR and mains filter and connect direct to cap bank for DC.

 These can charge deep cycle batteries and inverter is used to convert 12v to 240 to run the RV 3 phase motor. Now you have 1kw average with peak handling only limited by your inverter and battery bank size.  This is competitive to huge solar systems or wind power neither of which is available 24/7. In this instance power is 24/7 and the total system cost could easy be 1/10th of any other pre-existing technology watt for watt.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on May 08, 2011, 01:26:40 AM
Hi Romero, Bolt,

To ALL:
This generator can be driven by many other circuits or from an external motor connected to the shaft.Don't concentrate too much on the circuit used to drive the coils, that is simple.

Quote from: bolt
As Romero stated the pulse driving of this generator is not important at all. That is only a method to turn the rotor. Its only the construction and detail to the generator CORES and MAGNETS which provides the OU.

This means that coil and magnet spacing are the key and not the switching circuit? Ok, so if we drive the rotor with a <5Watt DC motor we should be able to self run the motor without the drive coils. That would simplify the design greatly.

Thanks again for all your time and input.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 01:40:08 AM
A standard DC brushed motor is CRAP they are only about 60% efficient.  If you want to loop first you must make sure you minimise ALL losses. This is always the first step. Remember you got to get a COP>2 PLUS losses to loop. If you go cheap on this and try  a make a toy version using 6v model motor and bit of ply wood for the rotor it will not work i guarantee it! Its the very reason for so many bedini failures is due to very bad construction.

The bigger and stronger you make this thing the better it works. That why i gave you the heads up on using 3 phase mains induction motor and RotoVertor it.  Most efficient  off the shelf motor in the world often found in the trash or cheap off ebay.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 08, 2011, 02:04:21 AM
Edit: hmmm...must be considered
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 02:24:23 AM
Yes first there is an odd number of coils to magnets this helps prevent no load cogging as each field is overlapped. But under load it begins to bog down again UNLESS the cores are Re-gauged.  By adding another magnet to the back side of each coil the coil once pulsed becomes latched in north or south pole state. Lets say the coil is latching South it approaches a South facing magnet and tries to repel against the coil. Normally the greater the current from the last magnet pass the greater the latching as it approaches a new magnet so the lugging increases.  The Re-gauging RESETS the coil by forcing back the flux in the opposite direction but it actually over shoots! This creates a north biased coil attracted fast to a south pole magnet and provides free acceleration energy into the system.

The solid state version of this is called ....wait for it = MAGNACOASTER. :) This is why magnacoaster has 5 neos one end and one the other with a measured tuned GAP. Yes its OU.

More abrupt the process is Bloch wall modulation where the return or re-gauging bias is an over shoot of energy from the back end magnet.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 02:38:05 AM
Yes first there is an odd number of coils to magnets this helps prevent no load cogging as each field is overlapped. But under load it begins to bog down again UNLESS the cores are Re-gauged.  By adding another magnet to the back side of each coil the coil once pulsed becomes latched in north or south pole state. Lets say the coil is latching South it approaches a South facing magnet and tries to repel against the coil. Normally the greater the current from the last magnet pass the greater the latching as it approaches a new magnet so the lugging increases.  The Re-gauging RESETS the coil by forcing back the flux in the opposite direction but it actually over shoots! This creates a north biased coil attracted fast to a south pole magnet and provides free acceleration energy into the system.

The solid state version of this is called ....wait for it = MAGNACOASTER. :) This is why magnacoaster has 5 neos one end and one the other with a measured tuned GAP. Yes its OU.

More abrupt the process is Bloch wall modulation where the return or re-gauging bias is an over shoot of energy from the back end magnet.
:) the magnets on top of the coils ideea came from Magnacoasters, I am working on that too but nothing like OU there yet. I am using the computer to generate the pulses.I do believe that Magnacoasters is genuine.
The rotovertor versions I tried about one year ago had about 33w minimum, in my case nothing like 10w or so but I did not oped the bearings to clean them.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 02:44:06 AM
I had an ideea and went back to the generator.
I was adding small ferrite magnets 20mm diam/0.5mm thick on top of the existing coils and the input now is reduced to 0.78amp and the speed is increased a bit.
I will play a bit more tommorow.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 02:53:13 AM
:) the magnets on top of the coils ideea came from Magnacoasters, I am working on that too but nothing like OU there yet. I am using the computer to generate the pulses.I do believe that Magnacoasters is genuine.
The rotovertor versions I tried about one year ago had about 33w minimum, in my case nothing like 10w or so but I did not oped the bearings to clean them.

Well i made a good guess then (educated one) LOL  Of course solid state is the goal and you will get there very soon. I think everyone has to go through the learning curve of OU machines first then later solid state.  Like you i KNOW magnacoaster is real and you have just proven it beyond any doubt with your generator. It just opens a new can of worms in controlling the HUGE amount of OU power. Plenty of burnt coils and blown fets.

Well when you make your big machine go get that old RV out the shed take off the fan, clean the bearings in petrol and  WD40 and just add one drop of sewing machine oil. It should spin by hand for 40 seconds very easy. Now you got a very efficient motor that can run on 10 watts and use ALL the coils as genheads. A small 250w inverter will run the RV motor easy and just retune the run cap to match the rotor at full rpm and load.

BTW you should get some sleep its 2 am:)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 03:10:58 AM
@bolt - BTW you should get some sleep its 2 am:)
 a bit more thant 2 am now and I am going to bed soon. This is the time I always go to bed even during the week

Regards,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: tanakat on May 08, 2011, 03:24:44 AM
Thanks for all your hard work romerouk, this is really appreciated, today's video made my day :) (my week even lol:)

Keep it up,

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 08, 2011, 03:34:16 AM
I had only a 5w bulb as with the 20w bulb the dc converter gets hot after some time.
I tried to add the bulb before the dc convertor but there is more than 12 volts and the bulb will not last.
This DC converter is max 3amp but I am very happy about it plus the price was very low. Nice device and I think that all people should have one, it helps a lot in any other builds where people are trying self looping.I has even load protection and thermal protection too.I have tried for a second a 50w bulb as load and it switched off imediately.
Got one just like that DC-DC conveter in a garage sale for 50 cents  :D
Hope all is well with the family and wife.  'Tis Saturday so you officially need to take the rest of the day off and get lots of rest.  We'll all still be here tomorrow :)
Thanks again for all you are contributing here!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 08, 2011, 03:48:40 AM
@groundloop and our other EE wizzkids

I can't remember if this has been mentioned before

I have been searching around for the Hall effect sensors and have found the A3144uea has been discontinued.

One of the manufacturers suggests the A1120EUA-T as an alternative

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6 (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=A1120EUA-T&x=20&y=6)

would you agree this is what we need?

I was seeing some A3144 Hall sensors on eBay from Chinese sellers.  They usually ship world wide and good prices too.  Not sure on the quality.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 08, 2011, 03:48:54 AM
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu 500g

If the wire comes in 500g rolls anybody know how much we would need to make all the coils in the motor?
any ideas Please?

I believe I read somewhere Romerouk used 2 kg. of that wire so I guess 4 rolls of the 500 gram wire.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 08, 2011, 03:56:19 AM
You are likely going to hear about it and what will be said in the coming days or hours or weeks who knows they will talk about the following things.

The fact that the table is plastic and has nice big hollow legs.

And the fact that you have a 12v lithium drill with a 1/8" drill bit under your table at 17:18 on this video... Sitting right next to them big hollow legs of that table.

I think yes the best test would be for you to do a suspension test I can see all of the shit slinging trolls coming out of the closet here soon might as well put them to rest as soon as possible imho . Seems it always happens even when people are not conclusively I believe proved wrong something just dies out because of the replication process being a bit more advanced then most have the time money or mental capacity to complete a strong proving series of there own ever since cold fusion it has been this way probably even long before this even Tesla with wardencliff ... He was made a mockery and we first finally now start to acknowledge his achievements in the time of "peak oil" which is another false term imho that I would prefer to believe there is no peak yet I believe with all the shale and other things oil abundance could still keep us rolling for over a century at our current rate of growth but with everything getting greener I estimate it would even last much longer.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: EMdevices on May 08, 2011, 03:56:54 AM
Congratulations  RomeroUK,   

I'm very pleased with your success in looping the output back to the input and demonstrating a self-running  Over Unity device, and even lighting a 12 V light bulb, as well as demonstrating different motor speed operations by changing the voltage output on the DC/DC converter.    I watched the videos and I'm so impressed, good for you.  I'll try to replicate as soon as I can.

EM
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 08, 2011, 04:39:32 AM
If this is replicated by a couple credible people I have some huge neos with 130lb pull force and some nice thick copper wire and would possibly be willing to scale this thing up. To see what kind of power we can really kick out of this thing but I will be waiting for a couple small scale confirmations before I waste my Wind Turbine stuff on this.

I would like to thank Muller for his design.
RomeroUK for his hard work and the open sourcing of a possible OU device.
The replicators in advance for possible verification of the said OU device.

All in advance.

-infringer-
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: rst on May 08, 2011, 04:45:37 AM
Hi all,

Where can buy litz wire (7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND) in Canada or usa

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 08, 2011, 04:50:19 AM
Ready made circular plastics for stators or rotor - Tab Plastics make a series of circular acrylic plates of varying diameters and thickness. Saves a bunch of time!

see
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=140&PHPSESSID=20110507194159721775929

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 08, 2011, 05:46:51 AM
Yes first there is an odd number of coils to magnets this helps prevent no load cogging as each field is overlapped. But under load it begins to bog down again UNLESS the cores are Re-gauged.  By adding another magnet to the back side of each coil the coil once pulsed becomes latched in north or south pole state. Lets say the coil is latching South it approaches a South facing magnet and tries to repel against the coil. Normally the greater the current from the last magnet pass the greater the latching as it approaches a new magnet so the lugging increases.  The Re-gauging RESETS the coil by forcing back the flux in the opposite direction but it actually over shoots! This creates a north biased coil attracted fast to a south pole magnet and provides free acceleration energy into the system.

The solid state version of this is called ....wait for it = MAGNACOASTER. :) This is why magnacoaster has 5 neos one end and one the other with a measured tuned GAP. Yes its OU.

More abrupt the process is Bloch wall modulation where the return or re-gauging bias is an over shoot of energy from the back end magnet.

@bolt,

this is (I think) the second time I read something from you and I must say: It is very logic what you are saying and brilliant observation and conclusions of yours. The overshooting of the magnetic field, "viscosity", seems to really explain what we are seeing here. I think another guy in this forum was talking about this to be the key also for the mystery of Orbo device.

I had to read your post really slow a few times in slow motion to "see" the phenomena you explained. Just like waves in a pond, just a bit late and the magnetic field "forces" the ferrite core to retard the instantaneous reaction it would have into a profitable event where it attracts the next magnet, therefore, re-gauging.

Brilliant and it took a brilliant experimentalist to make it happen into a real device (really thank you Romero).


Today I purchased the neo-magnets, 13/16" x 3/8" N42 (about 25 of those), plus a 12mm shaft and its mounted flanged bearings. Also I ordered 2 of 20" x 20" plexiglass sheet and MDF for the disk. Dying to have it delivered to start building.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: EMdevices on May 08, 2011, 05:58:51 AM
I'm taking all this information in as fast as I can and I have a few suggestions for RomeroUK.

1)  make sure you document everything, it's very important.
2)  continue to explore why you got the results you did and what are the critical factors, we need to determine the fundamental principle so we can duplicate easily and also scale up the design.


It sounds like the Muller arrangement of having one more coil on the stator than magnets on the rotor, i.e.  8 to 9 ratio, is a primary factor of importance, along with the fact that magnets are biasing the ferrite cores.   The biasing is critical in eliminating the hysteresis losses, and the motor pulsing arrangement is another very low loss mechanism,  so I second what bolt was saying,  don't build some cheap setup, go for perfection and eliminate as many losses as possible.


An interesting observation I made is that the ferrite is biased and the rotor magnets are in opposition.   This means the B-H curve is traversed from high H values to low H values and then back, as a magnet on the rotor approaches a stator coil, passes under it, and then departs away.  I think this cycling of the B-H curve from high-to-low and then back is very significant!  Romero, you might want to experiment and reverse all the polarities of the magnets only on the stators, and see if it still works.

EM
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 08, 2011, 06:21:15 AM
just finished the rotor stage PVC disc with 8 Magnet Neodymium Disc N45 Rare Earth 22mm x 10mm fitted and center bearing.
 I have two projects on the go today. I am still modifying My Adams motor to incorporate as many of the Muller Dynamo Techniques as I can.
I am interested in some of the electrical fundamentals. I want to test theses while I complete my replication.   

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 08, 2011, 07:46:03 AM
We have bad experience with MAGNACOASTER. My friend made money transfer 2 years ago and ordered device, but still not have it. And no money back. No answers to telephone calls, etc.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Arthurs on May 08, 2011, 07:48:37 AM
romerouk and Hello everybody:

    Because my English is not good, A lot of content can only guess, On the multi-strand wire:

1) a recommended 0.8mm multistrand,
2) Another way of saying they recommended 7x0.125mm litz wire,

    But: accurate mapping from the actual point of view, 7x0.125mm litz wire of the total cross section diameter of 0.375mm, And 0.8mm diameter cross section a lot of difference.
    I understand wrong? What is correct?

PS: multi-strand wire in the end is the option of using multi-strand bare copper wire? or choose to use multiple Enameled wire?

Thanks for helping
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: baroutologos on May 08, 2011, 08:40:24 AM
Well i made a good guess then (educated one) LOL  Of course solid state is the goal and you will get there very soon. I think everyone has to go through the learning curve of OU machines first then later solid state.  Like you i KNOW magnacoaster is real and you have just proven it beyond any doubt with your generator. It just opens a new can of worms in controlling the HUGE amount of OU power. Plenty of burnt coils and blown fets.

Well when you make your big machine go get that old RV out the shed take off the fan, clean the bearings in petrol and  WD40 and just add one drop of sewing machine oil. It should spin by hand for 40 seconds very easy. Now you got a very efficient motor that can run on 10 watts and use ALL the coils as genheads. A small 250w inverter will run the RV motor easy and just retune the run cap to match the rotor at full rpm and load.

BTW you should get some sleep its 2 am:)

If i may speak is BEST everyone to refrain from theories and old unproved concepts and focus on what Romero has ended up with.
First replicate, with all the meaning of the word i.e. not major changes (anyway, every one likes replicas), and then once successfully done, investigate yourself.

....

@bolt,

regarding RV it maybe work at extremely high electric to mechanic energy conversion in comparison to pulsed motors etc but the effect Romero shows that with load application (i.e. bulb and pulse motor) not affecting even slightly the device is outstanding at least and cannot be seen anywhere! (especially if there is not any considerable cogging torque present)

This is the discovered secret IMO thanks to Romero's experimenting skill and will to share.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 08, 2011, 09:30:40 AM
If i may speak is BEST everyone to refrain from theories and old unproved concepts and focus on what Romero has ended up with.
First replicate, with all the meaning of the word i.e. not major changes (anyway, every one likes replicas), and then once successfully done, investigate yourself.

snip..

This is the discovered secret IMO thanks to Romero's experimenting skill.


Good advice Baroutologos.

Also @ Romero - great stuff and thanks for sharing !

Cheers from Hoptoad
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 08, 2011, 09:49:22 AM
INFO.....
PEACE....
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/muller_dynamo/
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 08, 2011, 10:10:51 AM
Wow, just got in from work and had to catch up a lot.  Excellent work here everyone.

I submit that Romero has made enough changes and improvements to the Muller device that it is now essentially a new device.  I mean, a car is still a car but there is a big difference between a Model T and a 2011 Corvette.  (Romero's device being the Corvette)

This is astounding work here and exciting times.

Bill

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 08, 2011, 10:35:25 AM
If i may speak is BEST everyone to refrain from theories and old unproved concepts and focus on what Romero has ended up with.
First replicate, with all the meaning of the word i.e. not major changes (anyway, every one likes replicas), and then once successfully done, investigate yourself.


Very well said. We must first know by replication what it is.
Then only after knowing what can we start considering why.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 08, 2011, 10:48:59 AM
Let's clarify some points regarding the sensors:
not both of them are using the small magnets.I started originally with both using the small magnets to switch then I tried to move one to get max results.
The second one is facing the big magnets from the top.This one from the top is activated after the magnet passed, the other one on the side of the rotor is activated like 1mm after the magnet passed the center coil.
This is difficult to explain, testing yourself will get you there but do the testing separate not both of then at the same time.

Can somebody who understood the timing please help.

If the driving coil is activated AFTER the neo magnet on the rotor passed TDC,
then the driving coil must be PUSHING the neo magnet away
in order to accelerate the rotor.

Then we are actually using repulsion, not attraction, is this correct?
To use attraction, the driving coil should be activated BEFORE the
neo magnet on the rotor passed TDC.

Another perplexing point in the above post is this:
why different arrangement of the hall sensors give better results?
if moving the second sensor to face the big magnets from the top
will improve performance, why not move the first one in similar fashion?
If so, then we don't need those small magnets anymore.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Arthurs on May 08, 2011, 10:50:45 AM
Romerouk and Hello everybody:

    Because my English is not good, A lot of content can only guess, On the multi-strand wire:

1) a recommended 0.8mm multistrand,
2) Another way of saying they recommended 7x0.125mm litz wire,

    But: accurate mapping from the actual point of view, 7x0.125mm litz wire of the total cross section diameter of 0.375mm, And 0.8mm diameter cross section a lot of difference.
    I understand wrong? What is correct?

PS: multi-strand wire in the end is the option of using multi-strand copper wire? or choose to use multiple Enameled wire?

Thanks for helping
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: aircore on May 08, 2011, 10:55:47 AM
Romerouk and Hello everybody:

    Because my English is not good, A lot of content can only guess, On the multi-strand wire:

1) a recommended 0.8mm multistrand,
2) Another way of saying they recommended 7x0.125mm litz wire,

    But: accurate mapping from the actual point of view, 7x0.125mm litz wire of the total cross section diameter of 0.375mm, And 0.8mm diameter cross section a lot of difference.
    I understand wrong? What is correct?

PS: multi-strand wire in the end is the option of using multi-strand bare copper wire? or choose to use multiple Enameled wire?

Thanks for helping
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 08, 2011, 10:58:55 AM
I am thinking to double the number of coils and magnets too. 3 driving coils will be better.

3 driving coils will allow for a symmetric configuration of the driving coils.
the 6 pickup coils may have more turns to have higher voltage pickups.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 08, 2011, 11:11:28 AM
Let's clarify some points regarding the sensors:
not both of them are using the small magnets.I started originally with both using the small magnets to switch then I tried to move one to get max results.
The second one is facing the big magnets from the top.This one from the top is activated after the magnet passed, the other one on the side of the rotor is activated like 1mm after the magnet passed the center coil.
This is difficult to explain, testing yourself will get you there but do the testing separate not both of then at the same time.
Hello Romero,
I would like to ask what is exactly position, dimensions, type and polarity of small magnets?
thank you!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 08, 2011, 11:16:13 AM
Wow, just got in from work and had to catch up a lot.  Excellent work here everyone.

I submit that Romero has made enough changes and improvements to the Muller device that it is now essentially a new device.  I mean, a car is still a car but there is a big difference between a Model T and a 2011 Corvette.  (Romero's device being the Corvette)

This is astounding work here and exciting times.

Bill

Surely this design of RomeroUK is a lot more simpler to build and test...
I think we can also give a component list here. I'll start by:

1. 1 rotor plate and 2 stator plates.

2. 8 + 2 X 9 = 26 neomagnets, 20mm dia, 10mm thick, N38 rating.

3. 2 X 9 = 18 ( coils + ferrite rods + soft iron washers)

4. circuit components...

You are welcome to make corrections or add more details.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 08, 2011, 11:23:32 AM
Surely this design of RomeroUK is a lot more simpler to build and test...
I think we can also give a component list here. I'll start by:

1. 1 rotor plate and 2 stator plates.

2. 8 + 2 X 9 = 26 neomagnets, 20mm dia, 10mm thick, N38 rating.

3. 2 X 9 = 18 ( coils + ferrite rods + soft iron washers)

4. circuit components...

You are welcome to make corrections or add more details.

I'm not sure of the total # of neomagnets...the picture of
romerouk's build shows that not all coils have neomagnets.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:14:45 PM
Below is a picture with the scope connected at the AC point before bridge.

Answer: I run out of neo magnets. I am sure that more magnets will increase the output. I have ordered more togheter with the magnets for the new setup.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:21:33 PM
I was seeing some A3144 Hall sensors on eBay from Chinese sellers.  They usually ship world wide and good prices too.  Not sure on the quality.
I bought my sensors on ebay, from China. I  bought 40, I always buy more than I need, just in case... :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:23:13 PM
I believe I read somewhere Romerouk used 2 kg. of that wire so I guess 4 rolls of the 500 gram wire.
I had a big reel but not used all, I am not sure how much I used.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:30:23 PM
You are likely going to hear about it and what will be said in the coming days or hours or weeks who knows they will talk about the following things.

The fact that the table is plastic and has nice big hollow legs.

And the fact that you have a 12v lithium drill with a 1/8" drill bit under your table at 17:18 on this video... Sitting right next to them big hollow legs of that table.

I think yes the best test would be for you to do a suspension test I can see all of the shit slinging trolls coming out of the closet here soon might as well put them to rest as soon as possible imho . Seems it always happens even when people are not conclusively I believe proved wrong something just dies out because of the replication process being a bit more advanced then most have the time money or mental capacity to complete a strong proving series of there own ever since cold fusion it has been this way probably even long before this even Tesla with wardencliff ... He was made a mockery and we first finally now start to acknowledge his achievements in the time of "peak oil" which is another false term imho that I would prefer to believe there is no peak yet I believe with all the shale and other things oil abundance could still keep us rolling for over a century at our current rate of growth but with everything getting greener I estimate it would even last much longer.
I tried to do a hanging video yesterday but all device started to rotate and going crazy... after that gotoluc said that if don't do it properly then better don't.
I will do it anyway, I migh be able to keep it in the air with one hand and record with the other or... we'll see
That drill has nothing to do ... :) I didn't even think about removing it from there.
I will also try to use another capacitor, smaller, as gotoluc sugested, people might think I have batteries inside ...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 08, 2011, 12:39:03 PM
I tried to do a hanging video yesterday but all device started to rotate and going crazy... after that gotoluc said that if don't do it properly then better don't.
I will do it anyway, I migh be able to keep it in the air with one hand and record with the other or... we'll see
That drill has nothing to do ... :) I didn't even think about removing it from there.
I will also try to use another capacitor, smaller, as gotoluc sugested, people might think I have batteries inside ...

THANKS OSCILOGRAM  ROMERO UK ....
VIEV ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWpB3peU3Uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbF63Gzvtd4
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: joefr on May 08, 2011, 12:43:36 PM
First I like to thanks RomeroUK for great work and all details he posted on this forum.
He said that he will build bigger machine with more magnets and coils.
I have had already my plans made for a motor generator which uses coil shorting for more voltage output.

Now I adapted my plans to use 16x 20mm diameter 10mm thick magnets and 17x 20mm diameter core coils config.
I will be using rear gokart parts for axle and holders for rotor for easy adjustment of rotor.
I will be using opto triggering for coil shorting with help of arduino microcontroller.
The plans are made in SketchUP pro and exported to dxf and jpg format.
Please look at the plans if you have some suggestions before my machine shop start cutting the parts.

Here is the link to complete plans:
http://www.filedropper.com/plan16magnets17coilsoptocoilshorting (http://www.filedropper.com/plan16magnets17coilsoptocoilshorting)

Joe








Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:51:55 PM
I'm taking all this information in as fast as I can and I have a few suggestions for RomeroUK.

1)  make sure you document everything, it's very important.
2)  continue to explore why you got the results you did and what are the critical factors, we need to determine the fundamental principle so we can duplicate easily and also scale up the design.


It sounds like the Muller arrangement of having one more coil on the stator than magnets on the rotor, i.e.  8 to 9 ratio, is a primary factor of importance, along with the fact that magnets are biasing the ferrite cores.   The biasing is critical in eliminating the hysteresis losses, and the motor pulsing arrangement is another very low loss mechanism,  so I second what bolt was saying,  don't build some cheap setup, go for perfection and eliminate as many losses as possible.


An interesting observation I made is that the ferrite is biased and the rotor magnets are in opposition.   This means the B-H curve is traversed from high H values to low H values and then back, as a magnet on the rotor approaches a stator coil, passes under it, and then departs away.  I think this cycling of the B-H curve from high-to-low and then back is very significant!  Romero, you might want to experiment and reverse all the polarities of the magnets only on the stators, and see if it still works.

EM
I think that if I have 8 magnets on the rotor and any other greater uneven numbers of coils will work even better.
What I found durings some tests is that we need to have good spacing betwen the magnets on the rotor.The OFF time for the coils must be much greater than the ON time, possible because of the  core I use.Better material for the core will improve substantially.
People should pay attention for the core material, that is one of the most important keys in this setup togheter with the spacing arangement.
I will try different configurations, now that I made note of everything I can do any changes and still able to go back to the curent setup.
Something I discovered yesterday is that if I lift the magnet on top of the coil just a little bit then the output is increased. That shows me that I need to take every magnet and check, lifting up and down and add some spacers if required.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 08, 2011, 12:54:53 PM
RomeroUK,

In my humble opinion, i would not risk hanging your device on a string.
Better yet, i would not risk anything at all with it.
Most of us believe your intentions and observations.

Better to focus on a replication first.

Not that I wanna tell you how to handle, i trust your judgment. Keep up the good work!

PS. It seems like corematerial and the power of the magnet are related.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 12:57:37 PM
@joefr
What are those rotor holders you show in the picture? How do you call them?
They look great.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: joefr on May 08, 2011, 01:04:35 PM
Hi RomeroUK

Here is the link to online shop where I buy all the parts on the picture:

Sprocket Carrier 30mm
https://www.kart-schuette.de/karts_en/sprocket-carrier-30mm-1.html (https://www.kart-schuette.de/karts_en/sprocket-carrier-30mm-1.html)

They are aluminium and very well made. On the site bellow is the picture with all measures.

Joe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
RomerUK,

In my humble opinion, i would not risk hanging your device on a string.
Better yet, i would not risk anything at all with it.
Most of us believe your intentions and observations.

Better to focus on a replication first.

Not that I wanna tell you how to handle, i trust your judgment. Keep up the good work!
I am making sure I don't risk brakeing it, I would die...
I know that  if I show all of it then people will have more confidence in replicating it.
I have a friend here on the forum that I shared info for some time and he is saying that it is not possible to have such success with my devices and all others don't. :) I uderstand him and others but my answer is very simple: Put your heart in what you do, in all work you do and believe you can do anything, never give up.
I know it sounds stupid for many but this is my belief. Even if I cook something (soemtimes) I am doing it with great pleasure.
I think that people with bad heart and black soul will never succeed in anything.

Regards,
RomeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 01:12:53 PM
Hi RomeroUK

Here is the link to online shop where I buy all the parts on the picture:

Sprocket Carrier 30mm
https://www.kart-schuette.de/karts_en/sprocket-carrier-30mm-1.html (https://www.kart-schuette.de/karts_en/sprocket-carrier-30mm-1.html)

They are aluminium and very well made. On the site bellow is the picture with all measures.

Joe
Thank you Joe,
That is a big help for me.

Regards,
romeroUK
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 08, 2011, 01:20:23 PM
I am making sure I don't risk brakeing it, I would die...
I know that  if I show all of it then people will have more confidence in replicating it.
I have a friend here on the forum that I shared info for some time and he is saying that it is not possible to have such success with my devices and all others don't. :) I uderstand him and others but my answer is very simple: Put your heart in what you do, in all work you do and believe you can do anything, never give up.
I know it sounds stupid for many but this is my belief. Even if I cook something (soemtimes) I am doing it with great pleasure.
I think that people with bad heart and black soul will never succeed in anything.

Regards,
RomeroUK

Haha  good thinking, I think more or less the same. But since i recently had a metal lid blown a hole in my ceiling, due to some HHO experimenting, I'm a bit more careful, but still not giving up!  ;-)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scratchrobot on May 08, 2011, 01:32:28 PM
Congratulations Romeruk with this achievement and thank u for sharing all the info.

I'm really impressed and have to replicate this one for sure :)
Ordered some parts already and will keep you updated.

I wish you and your wife all the best in future and hope you can fulfill your dreams.

Regards,
scratchrobot
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Rosphere on May 08, 2011, 01:38:45 PM
romerouk,

Nice work.  Thank you for sharing.

Stop risking a floor crash, keep it on a table!  Some will simply say that you could have thin wire routed along with your cotton string, (just out of focus of your camera,) powering your device externally.  What have we gained?

I agree with you: get more successful-replications running.

I agree with EMdevices: document the details and try to discover the fundamentals.

We would appreciate some more graphic details, maybe arrows and lines on top of actual photo images, showing these timing adjustment ranges that you wrote of earlier.  Please include some 'if-then' situations from your experience.

Stop and review some of your replies here and elaborate upon those those not yet covered in your original document.  The more detail that you provide in one document, the better chance you have of achieving your goal of sharing the stage.

Thanks again, man!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 08, 2011, 01:54:18 PM
Better material for the core will improve substantially.
People should pay attention for the core material, that is one of the most important keys in this setup togheter with the spacing arangement.

After reading what EMdevices posted about the h curves, and what Bill Muller said about the 'amorphous polycrystalline ferrite' used in his cores (from Muller.doc posted by skywatcher123 reply102) I also think this is very important.

@romerouk Am I correct in thinking you acquired the cores from inductors/chokes salvaged from a computer power supply? Can you remember the component? I would like to start to identify the ferrite used by you so we can compare it to other materials of known values of operation. With lots of replications about to come together we could possibly all try different materials and compare the results, to find a better replacement, if you think this part could be improved upon.

I have started to cut some 10mm dia. ferrite rods I have (typical AM radio ferrites the ones with flats on either side to prevent rolling off your desk). I would like everyone's opinion as to whether these will be suitable?

Kindest regards

bourne
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 08, 2011, 02:01:59 PM
@Romerouk .Some of us are having problems finding suitable ferrite cores. The use of pieces cut from ferrite rods from old radios has been suggested . These are usually 10mm diameter .What is your opinion on using these . Also there will be millions of old CRT televisions dumped as the analogue transmitters are switched off . Would the multistrand wire from these degaussing coils be suitable ?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 08, 2011, 02:02:11 PM
Well I have started, does that count? lol

Rgds Ron

It sure does Ron!
I'm looking forward to seeing your build. I've seen previous results of your mechanical skills
so I know you'll do good.

Looking forward to (hopefully) some more positive results and the ensuing lively discussion.

Heres something Romero said back on page 5.

"The distance between the coils and the rotor must be adjusted depending on the magnets used, core... Too close is not neccesary good."

Sound familiar to you Ron ?. Someone I know has mentioned this in detail before, on another site?.
It may have even been me !! LOL.

P.S. - Thinking aloud ... Open Magnetic Sytems. They're full of surprises!  LOL

Cheers all .... KneeDeep
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: maw2432 on May 08, 2011, 02:20:03 PM
Hi Romero

Congratulations on a fantastic build and project. 

Question.  What type of bearings did you use on you rotor?
I switched to high speed ceramic bearings on a pulse motor project a while back and gained over a 50% improvement in speed of my rotor.   Ceramic bearings also are not subject to magnetic effects.

Maybe by switching to better bearings you could get more output?

Bill 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 02:29:47 PM
romerouk,

Nice work.  Thank you for sharing.

Stop risking a floor crash, keep it on a table!  Some will simply say that you could have thin wire routed along with your cotton string, (just out of focus of your camera,) powering your device externally.  What have we gained?

I agree with you: get more successful-replications running.

I agree with EMdevices: document the details and try to discover the fundamentals.

We would appreciate some more graphic details, maybe arrows and lines on top of actual photo images, showing these timing adjustment ranges that you wrote of earlier.  Please include some 'if-then' situations from your experience.

Stop and review some of your replies here and elaborate upon those those not yet covered in your original document.  The more detail that you provide in one document, the better chance you have of achieving your goal of sharing the stage.

Thanks again, man!
I am busy with so many things going and it is much easier to answer questions than having all answers in one document. There are many people ou there who can do that if they wish and I can do corrections after that.
I had a question about why is one sensor on the side and another one on top of the big magnets:
After trying all different positions I got is running like that and I have not tried again to have them using the same spot. It worked then I moved on,... thinking to go back but later having nice results I didn't care anymore.
It works in attraction mode... maybe the bictures below will help.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 03:08:04 PM
If i may speak is BEST everyone to refrain from theories and old unproved concepts and focus on what Romero has ended up with.
First replicate, with all the meaning of the word i.e. not major changes (anyway, every one likes replicas), and then once successfully done, investigate yourself.

....

@bolt,

regarding RV it maybe work at extremely high electric to mechanic energy conversion in comparison to pulsed motors etc but the effect Romero shows that with load application (i.e. bulb and pulse motor) not affecting even slightly the device is outstanding at least and cannot be seen anywhere! (especially if there is not any considerable cogging torque present)

This is the discovered secret IMO thanks to Romero's experimenting skill and will to share.

I think you completely missed the point of what i was saying.  First it is not the replication that is important it is understanding the method and using Re-gauging on the back end of the coils to null out the lugging. This is a magnacoaster method and something some of us have discussed for a long time.

 The drive of the rotor is not important as the pulse motor is only used to provide rotation. Any method of rotation can be used so long as its very efficient.  Already you will see no two devices will be the same as everyone will use the materials they have available to them. The magnets will be different strengths, the cores wound different, different core materials, the number of coils and magnets are probably going to be different BUT they all have a good chance of working if the re-gauging back end magnet is carefully selected to null the BEMF.

And Indeed Romero has suggested others try bigger coils and rotors to get more power. Alike the Joule Thief no two are the same yet most of them work!

For using 3 phase RV provides cheap method of construction with professional bearing and platform to mount a rotor. The perspex doesn’t come cheap either. A3 sheets of the stuff 12mm thick cost a small fortune!! RV provides an extremely efficient drive motor which can spin a very large rotor down to a few watts.

http://youtu.be/duWxzwLEMxM

Now bolt the genhead stator and rotor direct to the motor shaft and you got your muller without using pulse drive and ALL the coils then become generator coils.



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 08, 2011, 03:21:45 PM
Not trying to jump ahead too fast, but does anyone see the possibility of a non-rotational version?

Bolt, are you saying the key is that the generator coils experience no or little cemf?

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 08, 2011, 03:23:04 PM
Why do you stress so much about the no battery's inside??

Did you ever turn a generator by hand to lite up a 12 volt 20 Watt bulb?
It needs alot of kinetic energy to do that.

Which is why i can tell your device is a fraud.
That rotor is spinning way too slow to burn that lightbulb but it seems i am the only one that sees that.

Maybe that is because I actually used a lot of hand driven generators...whilst the rest of the members never did since they can just plug things in.

When I was a young telco technician in the uniselector to crossbar era, cranking at the handle of a 50 volt telephony gen to substitute as the battery was indeed a very difficult task when there was a significant load on it.

I did it regularly during pre-commission of installations for small businesses to verify each telephone working wire path integrity before connecting it to the switchboard systems.

But changes in modern conventional hand-gens make the task a little more efficient and a little less arduous.

However, the counter emf always opposes the effort in closed systems, thus requiring continued extra energy input to facilitate not just the transfer of mechanical to electrical energy, but also to maintain the rotation that is required to produce it against the natural breaking of the counter emf that arises for doing so.

Open Magnetic Systems seem to obey a unique set of energy transfer rules. My personal experimental observation on these systems in recent years points the finger towards the manipulation of the transition and block walls of interactive magnetic solids.

There is a very fine crossover point with magnet distance, where the decreasing strength of the field due to distance from the magnet changes from a root x distance squared to a decrease of root x distance cubed.

In this very fine area of crossover in the magnet to core interface distance, maximum flux change per unit of energy spent can occur. In other words, the right distance, or tuning of the gap makes a great difference to efficiency.

OU ? -  well, I dunno, But those who have the ability (and means) to replicate will either verify it for themselves or not. I'll just see what happens next, I think, since I have the ability but not the means.



Cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 03:29:06 PM
Just uploaded a new video with the generator suspended.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iNrjKFSLu4
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
Not trying to jump ahead too fast, but does anyone see the possibility of a non-rotational version?

Bolt, are you saying the key is that the generator coils experience no or little cemf?

.99

"Not trying to jump ahead too fast, but does anyone see the possibility of a non-rotational version?"

Of course that is called Magnacoster but not quite a simple as it seems. I think we all agree lets see some nice mullers working first then we go Solid State later.

The key is in the re-gauging of the back end magnets.  This been discussed in this thread several times already. Normally once a coil has passed a magnet its left biased with a core that is clashes head on to the next oncoming magnet. The effect gets worse the more current that as produced from the last magnet pass as both polarities are the same ie 2 norths or 2 south.  The back-end re-gauges the coil and the core actually overshoots MORE than a neutral correction it becomes strong opposite polarity and thus is attracted to the next magnet without lugging.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach%3Btopic=133.0%3Battach=609%3Bimage
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
The generator coils experience cemf depending on the load but at some point the speed goes up now down.
People should see the whole picture, don't look at a single coil, look at the other coils too at the same time.
Looks that we have a member(Microcontroller) that is 100% sure that this is a fraud, ha, ha, well u got me :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 08, 2011, 03:46:29 PM
@Romerouk . please when you get a minute , can you give your opinion on the 10mm ferrite rods from old radio .I know several people are thinking of using these .
 @everyone . suggestions wanted for a small efficient 12 volt drive motor for initial testing ..I wonder if a motor from an old video player might work .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 03:55:37 PM
The generator coils experience cemf depending on the load but at some point the speed goes up now down.
People should see the whole picture, don't look at a single coil, look at the other coils too at the same time.
Looks that we have a member(Microcontroller) that is 100% sure that this is a fraud, ha, ha, well u got me :)

Romero Please don't waste too much time on these people. There is only so much you can do in a video demonstration. Even if you tried to make everything as clean as possible some will suggest you are using microwaves, tapping the power lines, oh yes do you have a power line over head hint hint,  hidden batteries, even specially edited video!  The same thing has always happened from the TPU, Kapanadze, Sweet VTA, Muller, Moray etc apparently these are ALL fakes according to the hardcore elite debunkers LOL  Same thing last Xmas with looped HHO genset. That has to be fake right? no way can something be looped and run by itself.:)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 03:56:02 PM
@Romerouk . please when you get a minute , can you give your opinion on the 10mm ferrite rods from old radio .I know several people are thinking of using these .
 @everyone . suggestions wanted for a small efficient 12 volt drive motor for initial testing ..I wonder if a motor from an old video player might work .
I have used them in some other projects and worked good. Best will be mumetal or simmilar but the price is huge.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 08, 2011, 03:57:27 PM
.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 03:57:48 PM
Romero Please don't waste too much time on these people. There is only so much you can do in a video demonstration. Even if you tried to make everything as clean as possible some will suggest you are using microwaves, tapping the power lines, oh yes do you have a power line over head hint hint,  hidden batteries, even specially edited video!  The same thing has always happened from the TPU, Kapanadze, Sweet VTA, Muller, Moray etc apparently these are ALL fakes according to the hardcore elite debunkers LOL  Same thing last Xmas with looped HHO genset. That has to be fake right? no way can something be looped and run by itself.:)
Thank you for your support!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 04:05:04 PM
People should watch this, it applies here too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnsSRW7JqQA
Excellent job Bruce!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 08, 2011, 04:12:15 PM
I have used them in some other projects and worked good. Best will be mumetal or simmilar but the price is huge.

Thanks Romerouk

@everyone

Am I correct in thinking Muller used magnetite powder at one point?

Lots of things to try out at some point :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Bruce_TPU on May 08, 2011, 04:14:55 PM
The generator coils experience cemf depending on the load but at some point the speed goes up now down.
People should see the whole picture, don't look at a single coil, look at the other coils too at the same time.
Looks that we have a member(Microcontroller) that is 100% sure that this is a fraud, ha, ha, well u got me :)

Hi Romero,

Microcontroller and others like him are trolls.  They never have anything constructive to add, and they never build, nor test anything.
He and his buddies are best left ignored.

I am with you, all things are possible... 

And I would have to add, that you are correct about looking at the interaction of all of the coils, vs. magnets, and not just one.  I posted some time ago, in EM's thread, that I had found a patent that showed that the best coil to magnet layout to remove cogging was 1.5    - In other words, 12 coils and 6 magnets would be no good, because 12/6 is 2.  But 12 coils to 8 magnets is 1.5 ratio.  1.5, 2.5, 3.5 all work.  This is another reason, that with my coil discovery, I am not overly concerned with cogging, but I of course still need to test and prove it.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 08, 2011, 04:43:06 PM
I ordered the magnets.

Next step are the coils.

As I'm an electrical noob i have a few silly questions:

I'm i correct i can use a (in this case 0.125 ) wire , take 7 strings connect the endings and wind those all at the same time 300 times around the coil ?

I could not quite see how the coil is connected to the stationary disc. 

Could someone tell me if it would be A, B, C or D?  Or Else?

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 05:01:47 PM
I ordered the magnets.

Next step are the coils.

As I'm an electrical noob i have a few silly questions:

I'm i correct i can use a (in this case 0.125 ) wire , take 7 strings connect the endings and wind those all at the same time 300 times around the coil ?

I could not quite see how the coil is connected to the stationary disc. 

Could someone tell me if it would be A, B, C or D?  Or Else?
The answer is B, the core is not in contact with the magnet but goes half way
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 08, 2011, 05:04:07 PM
Just uploaded a new video with the generator suspended.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iNrjKFSLu4

THANKS ......
PEACE...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 08, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
It sure does Ron!
I'm looking forward to seeing your build. I've seen previous results of your mechanical skills
so I know you'll do good.

Looking forward to (hopefully) some more positive results and the ensuing lively discussion.

Heres something Romero said back on page 5.

"The distance between the coils and the rotor must be adjusted depending on the magnets used, core... Too close is not neccesary good."

Sound familiar to you Ron ?. Someone I know has mentioned this in detail before, on another site?.
It may have even been me !! LOL.

P.S. - Thinking aloud ... Open Magnetic Sytems. They're full of surprises!  LOL

Cheers all .... KneeDeep

Hi Hop!

Thanks, but boy, we are in some good company, you, Ben, Luc, nali, Gyula, and some other names I recognize...all the big guns....

Plus a few agenda workers, looks like the same bunch that worked so hard to derail Rosemary's various forums.

Interesting correlation here in the ratio of core size to magnet diameter, as in the Adams motor.

New ideas also on the multi strand. I always stayed away from it because of the cleaning to solder task... but I see it advertised as "solderable" ...so I took an old CRT coil and tried it, sure enough it solders like a charm!  Couldn't unwind it though as it was too well glued together and broke.

Yep,rotor up and running, to the point of doing some coil tests next

Take care

Ron


 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 08, 2011, 05:24:12 PM
@ Cherry man . See also my reply number257 on page18 .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 08, 2011, 05:26:24 PM
I think you completely missed the point of what i was saying.  First it is not the replication that is important it is understanding the method and using Re-gauging on the back end of the coils to null out the lugging. This is a magnacoaster method and something some of us have discussed for a long time.

 The drive of the rotor is not important as the pulse motor is only used to provide rotation. Any method of rotation can be used so long as its very efficient.  Already you will see no two devices will be the same as everyone will use the materials they have available to them. The magnets will be different strengths, the cores wound different, different core materials, the number of coils and magnets are probably going to be different BUT they all have a good chance of working if the re-gauging back end magnet is carefully selected to null the BEMF.

And Indeed Romero has suggested others try bigger coils and rotors to get more power. Alike the Joule Thief no two are the same yet most of them work!

For using 3 phase RV provides cheap method of construction with professional bearing and platform to mount a rotor. The perspex doesn’t come cheap either. A3 sheets of the stuff 12mm thick cost a small fortune!! RV provides an extremely efficient drive motor which can spin a very large rotor down to a few watts.

http://youtu.be/duWxzwLEMxM

Now bolt the genhead stator and rotor direct to the motor shaft and you got your muller without using pulse drive and ALL the coils then become generator coils.

I second baroutologos.

The regauging theory was put forward to quickly. The key to romero's device is the tuning of the coil under load. This indicates a reaction with either EMF or BEMF as the principle cause. Regauging may play a part but how can you put this out with no data?

The RV is a great toy, I use mine for all sorts of data gathering but i know it doesn't have any use at 20 watts, the slightest load and the draw goes sky high.

It is the replication that is important... then comes understanding, from why some will work and some won't.

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: baroutologos on May 08, 2011, 05:42:37 PM
Hey I_ROn,

Its nice to see you involved in this. Great machinist skills with right guidance will end up to the desired replication, God willing.

....
i have not the slightest intention at developing any theory or hearing others'. In the end of the day, the real things are that stay and make a difference.

If you track the way ROmero has always worked, he listens to everything and experiments with everything in his own way.
Personally it was beyond my powers to do that. Since i lack resources and imagination to do so.

Lets keep this great thing going, and anyone makes a positive contribution.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scratchrobot on May 08, 2011, 05:58:58 PM
Would it be possible to create litz wire from normal multistrand wire by maybe spraying some insulation or taking it trough a bath? Maybe someone tried this?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: ramset on May 08, 2011, 06:00:18 PM
Gents
Regarding The "Nasty" Posts!
Looks Like Stefan Is Keeping The Vibes Positive over here! [deletes the "nasty"]
Just the Way Romero Likes it!

History In the making!!

Chet
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: aircore on May 08, 2011, 06:18:41 PM
Hi Romerouk:

    Because my English is not good, A lot of content can only guess, On the multi-strand wire, This issue is really important to me, please answer:

1) a recommended 0.8mm multistrand,
2) Another way of saying they recommended 7x0.125mm litz wire,

    But: accurate mapping from the actual point of view, 7x0.125mm litz wire of the total cross section diameter of 0.375mm, And 0.8mm diameter cross section a lot of difference.
    I understand wrong? What is the right choice?

PS: multi-strand wire in the end is the option of using multi-strand bare copper wire? or choose to use multiple Enameled wire?

Thanks you helping
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 06:21:12 PM
Gents
Regarding The "Nasty" Posts!
Looks Like Stefan Is Keeping The Vibes Positive over here! [deletes the "nasty"]
Just the Way Romero Likes it!

History In the making!!

Chet
I am not worried about the 'nasty' posts, they should be left posted.
If I like them or not makes no difference to me, sometimes is good to have them, world is made of good and bad, black and white,...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hhobrian on May 08, 2011, 06:21:50 PM
Still kind of new to this forum, seems I joined at a great time.

I have been studying this and trying to gather the correct parts, etc. I have a half way decent machine shop at my disposal and will start on mine next week...

If anyone (USA based) has been finding good sources on this stuff, please share here. A lot of this is new to me. I have never made my own coils before, but willing to try. When wrapping them, does it matter in how they are wound? Clockwise, counter clock wise when placed? Maybe how the strands are placed? Sorry if "noob" questions, but i am. Thank for the patience..Good luck all
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
Hi Romerouk:

    Because my English is not good, A lot of content can only guess, On the multi-strand wire, This issue is really important to me, please answer:

1) a recommended 0.8mm multistrand,
2) Another way of saying they recommended 7x0.125mm litz wire,

    But: accurate mapping from the actual point of view, 7x0.125mm litz wire of the total cross section diameter of 0.375mm, And 0.8mm diameter cross section a lot of difference.
    I understand wrong? What is the right choice?

PS: multi-strand wire in the end is the option of using multi-strand bare copper wire? or choose to use multiple Enameled wire?

Thanks you helping
I am using 7x0.125mm wire, the same with multiple Enameled wire.Maybe untwisted wires might do better as Bruce is saying in the TPU replication.It is worth testing all small things to get the best of it.
Before I will start putting togheter the new setup I will do all this testings.
I am still ordering parts.I hate waiting... but I found all parts in UK so that should not take that long.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 08, 2011, 06:27:55 PM
hi all

please excuse if this is a DFQ**

(i've just looked thro' thread again and can't see this addressed previously, but with *my* eyesight you never know!)

in GL's diag, ok'd by Romero, the load (lamp) is shown as AFTER the DC-DC Converter

surely, it should be BEFORE the converter? (ie across the 47000uF buffer cap)

since the converter is, say, 80% efficient then 20% of all energy which enters it gets dissipated mostly as heat (ie. wasted)

if we put the load on the cap side then none of its energy gets wasted by the converter, am i right?

of course the converter is used to keep the voltage stable for the drive coils, so we have to accept the 20% (say) loss for their energy

but the convertor only NEEDS to stop any EXCESS energy going to the drive coils

so ALL additional excess is available to power any external load(s)

any comments? (or should i just start taking my meds again?)

great teamwork all !
np

(DFQ** = Damn Fool Question)


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: energia9 on May 08, 2011, 06:28:26 PM
Well Done! Keep the nice work up! this is a new age for sure, The age of no lies start from here RIGHT NOW!!!!  SCREW THE GOVERNMENT!!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 08, 2011, 06:31:23 PM
SCREW THE GOVERNMENT!!

LOL

...clockwise ...or anticlockwise?  ;)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 08, 2011, 06:36:29 PM
NP,

For constant power to a given load, post DC-DC works best.

But I agree, for the best efficiency of power transfer to the load, it should be placed pre DC-DC, as long as the load can handle the worst-case power surge possible going into it.

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 08, 2011, 06:45:36 PM
NP,

For constant power to a given load, post DC-DC works best.

But I agree, for the best efficiency of power transfer to the load, it should be placed pre DC-DC, as long as the load can handle the worst-case power surge possible going into it.

.99

yep, i agree completely

in the device as shown, any 'power surges' are most likely to come from instability in the input drive to the coils

since we're using a DC-DC convertor to prevent instability in the drive 'motor' we are significantly reducing the chances of power surges to the load

therefore i believe that in this case we can re-position the load before the converter -and improve the COP!

hopefully i've given a fair summary of the situation

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 08, 2011, 06:53:12 PM
Yeah, this kind of experiments I like,
Especially when well done mechanics, no cheesy and krooked shafts, no flapping and fluttering rotors.
When you like to use smaller bearings for less friction then you need to turn shaft ends, where bearings are, for this smaller diameter,  shaft itself must to be adequate for large rotor.
Some comments about posts I did read:
Pole/slot (coils) combination is far not Muller´s invention, for motor builders  this is well known trick to reduce cogging torque, this principle is known more than 20 years, mostly for 3-phase motors, but also for one phase generators.
I wonder  you are fearfully stucked on  9 coil / 8 magnets arrangement … you can use any combination like  - 9/10, 11/10, 11/12 … 19/18, 19/20 … 25/24, 25/26 … 39/38, 39/40 … 79/80 … 111/112 – what ever ...

Litz wire (stranded enamelled copper) …  like for every wire -  the cross are is decisive,
When Litz wire then sum of kross areas of all strands.
I added  chart (Hr. Dr. Ralph Okon, www.powercroco.de)  you can find diameter of wire, cross area, … and maximun current for this wire, This  is for „normal motor” builders  ;) , most of all for RC motors, where not so much turns (read it: wire lenght) and where is very good air cooling because huge air flow from propeller ... As I see you have 300 turns ... oh dear, you must to use bit thicker wire as on this chart.
About Litz (stranded wire) there have been long time discussion about by motor builders, many good motor builders does not like it, but myself I do, I use near everywhere Litz because lower losses and because easier to wind. In principle Litz or multistranded wire  is strongly necessary only when air-cap motors(generators) where magnets direct act to WIRE, where no iron core - there moving magnet causes huge Eddy losses when thick wire  :o (maximum diameter of wire for air-cap motors(generators) where no detectable eddy losses is 0.2mm).
You have iron core machine, so ... Litz is good but not by all means necessary.

Im not here to discuss about works this Muller as real OU or not ...
There is one more similar  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70E0Q_pCB-4&feature=related
this one yopu do not like ?  ::)

cheers,
khabe

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 08, 2011, 06:55:21 PM
Hi Romerouk,

Just a curiosity how much power you actually have available there.  You can't load down your switcher power supply/regulator due to its current capabilities, but you could put a load across the Cap ahead of the supply (I think you mentioned a 50 watt load at one time)  and keep loading it down till you had it down to about 6-7 volts at 12VDC into the motor from the switcher and it would show how much power is really available!  I suspect more than you think.  Monitor motor current, load current ahead of cap and system voltage at cap and motor, load it till the voltage at cap starts falling off, if that is possible.  Just a suggestion but don't burn out your gen. coils or bridge diodes.

Working like heck, getting parts that I don't have ordered, going through my junk box looking for a good quiet low power drive motor, of course, pulse driver is always an option but as you stated, probably not needed.  I'm a slow builder, think a lot, doodle a lot on paper, put everything I see into it, then build.  Again congratulations again for giving the world of OU builders something to really think about.

There are some great builders out there, I look forward to their efforts!!!!!

Just looked at my post and above and realized 3-4 people are thinking the same thing........this list is moving FAST!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 08, 2011, 07:05:04 PM
You can also build your own DC to DC regulator.
LM338 can handle 5 Ampere if on a heat sink.

Look at the LM338 data sheet. There are application examples
for 10 Ampere and 15 Ampere regulators also.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 08, 2011, 07:05:54 PM
I agree with Ben.

A comprehensive load test would determine what it's capable of. If the output is capable of double or triple the input power, replication could be greatly simplified.

Driven with a relatively-efficient DC motor, all the stator coils could be dedicated as output coils, and their combined outputs looped back to the drive motor, either directly, or through some type of regulator such as a DC-DC converter.

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 08, 2011, 07:19:59 PM
You can also build your own DC to DC regulator.
LM338 can handle 5 Ampere if on a heat sink.

GL.

HI GL.

As this is a linear regulator, it can become quite inefficient if the input voltage exceeds the output voltage by a degree.

Although a linear regulator is an option, a much better one is probably to stay with a switching DC-DC converter, as the efficiency is relatively constant over the entire output voltage range. I believe the Maplin converter Romero is using is in fact a SMPS (switched-mode power supply, "buck-mode") variety. P/N: SDR-3000 by VANSON.

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Aedini on May 08, 2011, 07:21:08 PM
Hi Romero:
    I really want to know you are using the DC - DC converter is what the internal structure?
    -------------------------------------------------------
    I am very worried about hidden inside a battery.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Very much hope that you can use facts to eliminate my doubts.

    If you have offended, please forgive, because so far no one has successfully copied.

 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 07:24:59 PM
hi all

please excuse if this is a DFQ**

(i've just looked thro' thread again and can't see this addressed previously, but with *my* eyesight you never know!)

in GL's diag, ok'd by Romero, the load (lamp) is shown as AFTER the DC-DC Converter

surely, it should be BEFORE the converter? (ie across the 47000uF buffer cap)

since the converter is, say, 80% efficient then 20% of all energy which enters it gets dissipated mostly as heat (ie. wasted)

if we put the load on the cap side then none of its energy gets wasted by the converter, am i right?

of course the converter is used to keep the voltage stable for the drive coils, so we have to accept the 20% (say) loss for their energy

but the convertor only NEEDS to stop any EXCESS energy going to the drive coils

so ALL additional excess is available to power any external load(s)

any comments? (or should i just start taking my meds again?)

great teamwork all !
np

(DFQ** = Damn Fool Question)


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
I am using the bulb at dc regulator output only because before the regulator I have about 15 volts, but I could use 2 10w bulbs in series there.
I have tried adding a 50w bulb and everything stopped.The most I can take out is about 25w, after that even if I add just 2-3 watts more the system slows down a lot going to a stop.
I have done the testing and all coils/magnet arrangements with a 20w bulb loaded all the time.
It looks that the system is tuned for this load. The coils should have been larger a bit.Next build I will do better.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 07:32:35 PM
Hi Romero:
    I really want to know the DC-DC converter which is what?
    -----------------------------------------------------
    I am very worried about hidden inside a battery.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Very much hope that you can use facts to eliminate my doubts.

    If you have offended, please forgive, because so far no one has successfully copied.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639
do you really think that a battery that size will run the system for that time?
I understand you and all others having doubts but soon you will see more comming, not from me.
I have a friend who is about to finish a replication but bigger size, he started building about the same time I did. He is looking to get more than 100w out.I am curious too but confident that he will succeed.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: eastcoastwilly on May 08, 2011, 07:34:05 PM
Thanks Romerouk

@everyone

Am I correct in thinking Muller used magnetite powder at one point?

Lots of things to try out at some point :)

From Energetic forum from Dr. Peter Lindemann on making your own magnetite cores. Hope it helps.

Will
 
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7468-how-can-i-make-good-magnetic-sand-cores.html#post131820 (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7468-how-can-i-make-good-magnetic-sand-cores.html#post131820)[/QUOTE]

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: EMdevices on May 08, 2011, 07:55:30 PM
RomeroUK,

thank you for your previous answers and new video. 

One question I have is:  does the device operate with the stator magnets reversed?  Have you tried that in the past?


EM
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 07:59:45 PM
Thanks Romerouk

@everyone

Am I correct in thinking Muller used magnetite powder at one point?

Lots of things to try out at some point :)
Bill Muller stated that he was using magnetite powder. I have never tried but I do have about 1kg of magnetite powder and I will have to build a core and compare with ferrite.
Too much things to do, maybe some others will contribute and do some of this work.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 08:04:04 PM
RomeroUK,

thank you for your previous answers and new video. 

One question I have is:  does the device operate with the stator magnets reversed?  Have you tried that in the past?


EM
Does not operate with them in reverse, even if I turn one the system goes crazy.
As I said before they all work togheter.
Now I am wondering if I will add the missing magnets not to affect the system and make it worse than better. I should receive the ordered magnets day after tommorow and try them out.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 08, 2011, 08:12:51 PM

the convertor only NEEDS to stop any EXCESS energy going to the drive coils

so ALL additional excess is available to power any external load(s)


[...]
But I agree, for the best efficiency of power transfer to the load, it should be placed pre DC-DC, as long as the load can handle the worst-case power surge possible going into it.
[...]

[...]
 but you could put a load across the Cap ahead of the supply (I think you mentioned a 50 watt load at one time)  and keep loading it down till you had it down to about 6-7 volts at 12VDC into the motor from the switcher and it would show how much power is really available!  I suspect more than you think.
[...]

[...]
before the regulator I have about 15 volts, but I could use 2 10w bulbs in series there.
[...]

so that seems to be a concensus then...

1) the DC regulation only needs to transmit, & consume, sufficent energy to maintain the motor at a stable drive level

2) ALL *available* extra energy produced by the system can be made available to a load BEFORE the converter/regulator - as long as this doesn't compromise (1)

as Alexandyr would say: "Simples"  ;)

np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: EMdevices on May 08, 2011, 08:16:36 PM
thanks for the answer Romero,

the systems is definitely a fine balanced one and it's not just one thing that makes it work,  that's clear to me now.

EM
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 08, 2011, 08:30:44 PM
Excellent suspension test RomeroUK!

You could easily see that nothing is hidden in this device.

Finally you will want to record with maximum audio all sounds around you you may be heard.
This is to be done to prove that you are not overlaying another audio track to protect the fact that you are not trying to hide noise of someone off screen trying to hide behind you that is making this spin with an air hose.

If you could I would record this with a nice big mirror in front of you and to hide your identity I would wear a mask if you are worried about this. This would prove that you have no help of any sort other then possibly a camera man with a camera!

To totally prove this works there are two more things required in Suspension test two and I would call it suspension test final undeniable 100% evidence of overunity.

Do the supension test 1 more time.

Without cutting away pop open the DC to DC converter.

Then Discharge and Tear open the capacitor showing that it is impossible to have hidden any battery.

Also show the underside of the device as I believe this has not been shown yet! with the black rotor you could have a motor and a battery underneath it without anyone knowing.

If you complete all of these things without cutting away which you may need some help from a camera man to complete this task you have proved overunity and it will nearly be undeniable.

With the exceptions of:

The few who are just here to make life hard on you they will say anything to disprove your discovery. They are all getting payed money to constantly refute claims and put people off the path of enlightenment.

They may say that you are somehow transmitting wireless electric or whatever but most people here will know better because you do not have the correct parts wired in to make this happen.

RomeroUK this is indeed your device and once we all get it replicated and are generating energy you will be handsomely rewarded with Donations coming in from around the globe! I have with me an electronics engineer that I live with and he will be a great help with the replication process once I see some solid replications built.

Thank You so much for sharing a possible solution to a world wide crisis.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: erikbuch on May 08, 2011, 08:37:06 PM
Hello everybody!
This is very exiting, I have been following this thread since first posting, and I must say, You guys are doing some great work here. Of course specially to RomeroUK!
I thought I should throw in a suggestion for testing, what about adding another switching powersupply, parallel to the one hooked up. (same kind) And see if you can load that one any harder than the one you are using now? Kind of separating "motor circuit" from " load circuit"
Just a thought, but might be on the wrong field here  ;)
Greetings from Norway to all!  ;D

erikbuch
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: energia9 on May 08, 2011, 08:37:42 PM
How many Magnets are there exactly on the outer body of the motor? I have seen some pictures where on some coil there were no magnet, Can somebody clarify this? Thank you

i would like to replicate this device and it would be perfect if someone would make a separate website for construction of this device in full detail with parts lists, Tips etc
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: albert on May 08, 2011, 08:41:10 PM
Congratulations this seems to be the real mc coy! I think there are good chances of a replication since many of us might have some of the ingredients on their workbenches already! Thank you also for being so open.

Suggestions: don't change anything....let this run for at least 24 hours, measure rpm before and after...I wonder if the magnets will degauss in time...? The energy must come from them in this setup. Is anything getting hot/cold during a longer run?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 08, 2011, 08:51:35 PM
It is plain to me that it is self evident that no matter how much time and money you spend on making a video , it will fall short of actual proof . After all there are people out there who believe that "Jurassic Park "was real . Even if you went to Romero`s house and he demonstrated it in front of your eyes ,for all you know he could be a brilliant conjurer .The only proof that would be close to 100% would be if you build one yourself  from parts you obtain yourself .But then of course you might be dreaming or under hypnosis . It is all about the balance of probabilities . My approach is to hope for the best until the worst is proved .Thank goodness for the people who have sufficient faith and hope to build their own .
@Em devices .You say it is a finely balanced machine . It clearly is not because it shows excess energy . I would also like to know how the efficiency of a pulse motor compares to that of , say , a permanent magnet DC motor , or even a brushless one .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 08, 2011, 08:52:43 PM
@Romero

what is the correct core dimensions please? I see 10mm x 15mm and also on the PDF compiled by Hartberlin being 6mm x 15mm??

Also the PDF says the copper wire to be 0.8mm but another thread (with a nice picture) shows 7 wires of 0.125mm each totaling 0.375mm (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284990#msg284990). What is the correct final dimensions?


Today I orderd the Magnetite powder to make my own ferrites too. Today I will start coiling the coils BUT I need the correct dimension.

Many thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 08, 2011, 09:03:05 PM
The ferrite cores seem to be very difficult to get . I have tried cutting a 10 mm ferrite rod into lengths but its a bit like cutting glass .I know we must try to replicate the original as closely as possible , but for some of us there are budget constraints , and obtainability issues . The shortest rod commonly available is 60 mm . One could make a long thin coil , but then that is unknown territory . Any theories or suggestions ? @plengo , I believe original cores were 6mm x15mm .
@Romerouk .You have small magnets above most of the upper coils . Do you also have small magnets below the bottom coils . If not , have you tried this ?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: u2btchr on May 08, 2011, 09:20:48 PM
RomeroUK.

A big thankyou for open sourcing your project and for  the drawings that are worth a 1000 comments of 'how to'.

I have some clear acrylic plastic sewing machine bobbins (approx 20mm wide x 10 mm deep w. 6 mm hole) and wound #34 wire tri-filar on them but they heated up quickly and I melted the bobbins [bummer], but did not use a ferrite core, nor any washer and magnets on top/bottom. - - - Would you explain more about the size and coil bobbins you use? -- Also, is a single wire wind (i.e.#28) worth winding on the bobbins next? [will be approx. 200 winds each].

Last question on Muller coils. He wound coils which resembled a cone-shape when done right, and the wire was not wound 'back and forth' but one direction to the top, and then started from the bottom up again, each time. -- Is this type of coil wind beneficial in your type of build or is the back 'n forth wind acceptable for efficiency for thinner wire guage?

Again..... I rate your project 10+ !!!! I look forward to more as you experiment.

An old wood shop tchr of 39+ years teaching.

PS  -- I have a couple kids at school wanting to replicate your project based on your video's!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 08, 2011, 09:36:50 PM
Hi, like some others I want to point out importance of the core material.

Attempts to use solid metal cores or even laminations will likely be futile.
With low power system good RF ferrite with low eddy loss should work but
for full sized system getting proper core material is very problematic.
So if people here have magnetite on hands then it would be good time
to try this out:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7468-how-can-i-make-good-magnetic-sand-cores.html#post131820

To make it more visual there is video:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=470

This is my litte test device for trying this and that. Basically
pulse motor. At first I did drive coil average Joe style, on steel
bolt. Minimal possible drive voltage was then 0.5V. After that
I constructed drive coil on oversized RF ferrite core. Minimal
possible drive voltage settled at 0.1V and it got a lot more
efficent overall.

Now what I do in the video is just remove totally unused and
unshorted old drive coil from the system (running on new coil at 0.2V).
Pretty dramatic acceleration of rotor occurs.

So to sum it up... Presence of any conductive material in the
rotor field besides windings severly degrades performance.
Electricity has no reason whatsoever to form in windings if
it has alternative paths... be it core, frame details etc.

BTW romerouk, have you tried it with air coils. Maybe it is not critical
to have cores? I say this because current cores are rather undersized for given magnets/coils
and likely get totally saturated. Do they really play significant role at all... ?
Or maybe it is the role... sort of saturable reactor?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 08, 2011, 09:49:56 PM
Hi, like some others I want to point out importance of the core material.

Attempts to use solid metal cores or even laminations will likely be futile.
With low power system good RF ferrite with low eddy loss should work but
for full sized system getting proper core material is very problematic.
So if people here have magnetite on hands then it would be good time
to try this out:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7468-how-can-i-make-good-magnetic-sand-cores.html#post131820

To make it more visual there is video:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=470

This is my litte test device for trying this and that. Basically
pulse motor. At first I did drive coil average Joe style, on steel
bolt. Minimal possible drive voltage was then 0.5V. After that
I constructed drive coil on oversized RF ferrite core. Minimal
possible drive voltage settled at 0.1V and it got a lot more
efficent overall.

Now what I do in the video is just remove totally unused and
unshorted old drive coil from the system (running on new coil at 0.2V).
Pretty dramatic acceleration of rotor occurs.

So to sum it up... Presence of any conductive material in the
rotor field besides windings severly degrades performance.
Electricity has no reason whatsoever to form in windings if
it has alternative paths... be it core, frame details etc.

BTW romerouk, have you tried it with air coils. Maybe it is not critical
to have cores? I say this because current cores are rather undersized for given magnets/coils
and likely get totally saturated. Do they really play significant role at all... ?
Or maybe it is the role... sort of saturable reactor?

I have air core coils in my Muller and it does NOT give out any free energy.
I think the smartest thing to do is to replicate romerouk's setup.

GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wattsup on May 08, 2011, 09:53:27 PM
@romerouk

Nice video. I like it.

Now imagine that magnet wheel was twice the diameter keeping the magnet/coils you have now in place but having a wheel that goes further out beyond where the magnet/coils are now. On the outer edge of the wheel you put more magnets and only drive coils. Now imagine what will happen when this wheel not only takes advantage of the dioded pick-up coils expelling their energy at every input state, but now the outer most drive coils can take advantage of more leverage then the pickup coils will ever be able to drag backwards.

Right now, with the magnets and coils on the same circumference, like 99% of all these types of builds, you cannot take advantage of any leverage. Leverage is the free force you can use to counter drag thus increase your output without increasing your input.

I put an explanation of this here some time ago.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7833.msg261177#msg261177

Very good job indeed and thank you for sharing your works.

wattsup
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 08, 2011, 10:01:51 PM
NP,

For constant power to a given load, post DC-DC works best.

But I agree, for the best efficiency of power transfer to the load, it should be placed pre DC-DC, as long as the load can handle the worst-case power surge possible going into it.

.99

Agree with nul-points and you but I think Romero said (although I might be dreaming) that the only reason it was after was the voltage coming off the coils (I think about 15 volts) would likely have blown the 12 volt lamp or overheated it and shortened it's life - something along that line was said I believe. 
 Ooops, I see Romero confirmed this back a page or so sorry for duplicate info as I had not read that far. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 08, 2011, 10:04:37 PM
I have air core coils in my Muller and it does NOT give out any free energy. I think the smartest thing to do is to replicate romerouk's setup.

Ok, good to know. Of course first thing would be 1:1 replications not to mess things up. If it should work I would go for same diameter cores/magnets and big core material volume. I have seen pretty crazy scope shots and stuff with my pulse motor with massively oversized ferrite core (compared to neo magnets on the rotor) so it may be indeed that core material is "the source" when handled in clever ways.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 08, 2011, 10:09:25 PM


Hi Romero,

I think you can reduce the input current draw for the Hall switch + the TIP42C by inserting a series resistor between Pin 3 of the Hall and the base of the TIP42.  As it is shown in the schematic
( http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3842.0;attach=52576 )
Pin 3 is an open collector and directly connected to the +12V via the base-emitter junction of the transistor, there is no any current limiting for the junction and for the inside Hall switching transistor.

I do realize that your circuit works as it is shown  but I guess at least a 30 - 40mA current draw could be saved per one TIP42C by inserting a 680 Ohm to 1 kOhm resistor between Pin 3 and the base electrode while the switching would take place still safely, for both TIP42s.

What do you think? perhaps you have considered and tried this?

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 10:17:58 PM
Hi,
most of the questions have answers already, please read all posts... I am tired to just answer same questions hundreds of times.
The coils are 1cm usable, the inside between the ends, in total 1.2cm and diameter 2.2cm
the core ferrite 1.5cm/6mm diameter.
I have tried without cores but less performance, higher speed but low output.

I will not do other videos, this way, everyday I will find someone to suggest something else.
For all replicators.

After some tests today and changed one pair of coils, same type of wire but 1.5cm diameter ferrite core, 1.5cm long.
Still 1cm winding space on the coil on 3.5cm diameter coil.I have doubled the number of turns to 600 for each coil.
This was done just for one pair of coils, recovery not driver coils.
The output is increased  but for more I will need to change them all to balance the system but  I wont do that, is to much unnecessary work, I wanted to check and apply to the new system.
Don't even think of using metal or laminations for the cores.

I had another request to sell it. I HAVE NO INTENTIONS TO SELL IT. - please no more.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 10:20:46 PM

Hi Romero,

I think you can reduce the input current draw for the Hall switch + the TIP42C by inserting a series resistor between Pin 3 of the Hall and the base of the TIP42.  As it is shown in the schematic
( http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3842.0;attach=52576 )
Pin 3 is an open collector and directly connected to the +12V via the base-emitter junction of the transistor, there is no any current limiting for the junction and for the inside Hall switching transistor.

I do realize that your circuit works as it is shown  but I guess at least a 30 - 40mA current draw could be saved per one TIP42C by inserting a 680 Ohm to 1 kOhm resistor between Pin 3 and the base electrode while the switching would take place still safely, for both TIP42s.

What do you think? perhaps you have considered and tried this?

Thanks,  Gyula
Hi Gyula,
I have analysed some other circuits using mosfets and I will consider your sugestion too but for my next build.This one can stay as is.

Thank you,
Romero
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 08, 2011, 10:22:24 PM
info...
Thank you FOTO ,
Romero UK  !!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/FreeEnergyLT?feature=mhum
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Free.Energy on May 08, 2011, 10:26:44 PM
Great work Romero!

Does the rotor spin up a little faster after you have run it for a little time?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 08, 2011, 10:36:25 PM
Hi,
most of the questions have answers already, please read all posts... I am tired to just answer same questions hundreds of times.
The coils are 1cm usable, the inside between the ends, in total 1.2cm and diameter 2.2cm
the core ferrite 1.5cm/6mm diameter.
I have tried without cores but less performance, higher speed but low output.

I will not do other videos, this way, everyday I will find someone to suggest something else.
For all replicators.

After some tests today and changed one pair of coils, same type of wire but 1.5cm diameter ferrite core, 1.5cm long.
Still 1cm winding space on the coil on 3.5cm diameter coil.I have doubled the number of turns to 600 for each coil.
This was done just for one pair of coils, recovery not driver coils.
The output is increased  but for more I will need to change them all to balance the system but  I wont do that, is to much unnecessary work, I wanted to check and apply to the new system.
Don't even think of using metal or laminations for the cores.

I had another request to sell it. I HAVE NO INTENTIONS TO SELL IT. - please no more.
Romero,  I totally agree with you on those requesting more video's for proof like disassembling the DC converter.  You will never satisfy such people and they are just wasting your time.  Don't let them drag you down with this nonsense.  Those who know your work know you are not trying to fool anyone.  And anyone with common sense would know that since you are not asking for money and won't even consider selling your motor as well as the fact you are doing everything possible to help everyone replicate this that there is no possible reason you would be fooling people.  If you were it would only make you look bad and would accomplish nothing positive for you or anyone.  So people please consider all that has been given and know that the only real proof will be you building a replication and doing the work of tuning it properly if it does not work the first time you fire it up. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 08, 2011, 10:44:23 PM
Romerouk has revealed that cores with a 15 mm diameter not only work but work better . There is hope for us radio ferrite boys .Note extra turns .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 08, 2011, 10:47:57 PM
I have air core coils in my Muller and it does NOT give out any free energy.
I think the smartest thing to do is to replicate romerouk's setup.

GL.
Special for Groundloop and the others helping with drawings and info 
To get to the point where you will get even a little bit out than in requires a lot of time and work. Check every part of the system, part by part, then when you think is tuned start again.
Let me give u an example:
If u have 10 parts in your system and after jumping from testing  the first then second up to 10, when u finished you start again. It can be that part 3 is not as before after u adjusted any other part after. Once you retried everything and got best of all adjustments then you are nearly there.
Do all this testings without having the rectifiers connected together.Measure every coil separately. Even if you don't get too much out from the coils, don't worry, when all are connected things will go magic.
A DC/DC Converter is a must.
Don't rush, I have spent about a month to get here.
Once u past the point and for 1 you get even 1.1 then things are easy

Success!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 08, 2011, 11:04:39 PM
As of limited resources and tools
i came up with a simplified version of the construction

Although i fully understand it is not an exact replication, i will use it as the basic starting plan for my built.

I share it, not sure if it would distract, if so, it can be replaced by a mod.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 08, 2011, 11:08:57 PM
Special for Groundloop and the others helping with drawings and info 
To get to the point where you will get even a little bit out than in requires a lot of time and work. Check every part of the system, part by part, then when you think is tuned start again.
Let me give u an example:
If u have 10 parts in your system and after jumping from testing  the first then second up to 10, when u finished you start again. It can be that part 3 is not as before after u adjusted any other part after. Once you retried everything and got best of all adjustments then you are nearly there.
Do all this testings without having the rectifiers connected together.Measure every coil separately. Even if you don't get too much out from the coils, don't worry, when all are connected things will go magic.
A DC/DC Converter is a must.
Don't rush, I have spent about a month to get here.
Once u past the point and for 1 you get even 1.1 then things are easy

Success!

@omerouk,

Thank you for the tips. I have had my Muller for 8 years. I have tried several 100th of variations
for motor driving and generator outputs. My Muller is made in a CNC machine. All the coils are
factory made. So there is not much I can tune. All I can do is trying to add Ferrite cores to
my coils. There is no way I can get my magnets out of the rotor to try all the same pole out.
The magnets are glued to the rotor with a strong Epoxy. So I'm stuck with the NSNSNSNS configuration.
I have no spare time to build a new Muller now. But I will get time next winter. Then I will build
an Acrylic one and make as a close replica to your Muller as possible.

GL.
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 08, 2011, 11:14:55 PM
@omerouk,

Thank you for the tips. I have had my Muller for 8 years. I have tried several 100th of variations
for motor driving and generator outputs. My Muller is made in a CNC machine. All the coils are
factory made. So there is not much I can tune. All I can do is trying to add Ferrite cores to
my coils. There is no way I can get my magnets out of the rotor to try all the same pole out.
The magnets are glued to the rotor with a strong Epoxy. So I'm stuck with the NSNSNSNS configuration.
I have no spare time to build a new Muller now. But I will get time next winter. Then I will build
an Acrylic one and make as a close replica to your Muller as possible.

GL.

GL:

Depending upon your rotor material, a little heat will remove your magnets easily.  Of course, it will probably be above the Curie temp. for the magnets so you would have to replace them, but at least they would be off of your rotor.  Heat will work no matter what type of epoxy was used.

I hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Groundloop on May 08, 2011, 11:30:28 PM
GL:

Depending upon your rotor material, a little heat will remove your magnets easily.  Of course, it will probably be above the Curie temp. for the magnets so you would have to replace them, but at least they would be off of your rotor.  Heat will work no matter what type of epoxy was used.

I hope this helps.

Bill

Bill,

Thank you. Did not know that heat will dissolve Epoxy.

Still, I think it will be less costly to keep the magnets and destroy the rotor.
My magnets is 32mm in diameter and 20mm thick. I do not know what the
cost is today for such big magnets.

Thanks,
GL.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 08, 2011, 11:41:39 PM
I have air core coils in my Muller and it does NOT give out any free energy.
I think the smartest thing to do is to replicate romerouk's setup.

GL.

Looks like you forgot Right and Left hand rules and Lorentz law, the air core (air gap) motor/generator principle,
Accurate is to say that there is no coils at all, there are only wires (conductors)  in a magnetic field.
When magnet moves over (round wound) COIL then at first one side of coil induces positive pulse and another side of coil indudes negative pulse ... summary NOTHING, especially when magnet does cover all the coil. When to wind this coil sides more widely, then we get sequentially plus and minus -  sinus, but what you will do with this full wave sinus when N-pole Muller machine ::) Must to be noted that when axial machine then magnets acts only to wires what are radially, wires (part of coil) what have  rotor rotation direction are just like ballast, they do nothing instead of losses (resistivity).
In principle it is possible to arrange wires and to get only positive pulse or only negative pulse, you just need to wind this coil dissimilarly, other side will be hidden on to back side, it means again longer wire and more losses.
Thats because common ferrous core wound coil is the best for actual story - all the copper will be spent usefully.
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hhobrian on May 08, 2011, 11:47:52 PM
Thanks to this thread, I know how this works now! Thanks!

http://www.lutec.com.au/how.htm
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 12:29:17 AM
Cherryman and other replicators,  I understand your desire to do this with the least expense possible.  However consider the wood versus acrylic as a possible important point.  I don't remember if it was mentioned here but I've seen some reference to the static electric nature acrylic has.  Maybe it can be a source of electrons.  I wouldn't exclude it as one of the possible reasons why this is able to work.  BTW Cherryman thanks for taking time to make up the drawings for those who are thinking of trying a less expensive plan.  But there is a saying I learned in a former construction job that stuck with me: "the high cost of cheap construction".  That of course means when you first cheap attempt fails it will cost you those materials plus a new set of quality materials to fix it. 
Title: Correct interpretation of the Rumerouk screen Output Shot at reply 328
Post by: ltseung888 on May 09, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
Below is a picture with the scope connected at the AC point before bridge.


Correct interpretation of the Rumerouk screen Output Shot at reply 328

Most people will interpret the displayed waveform as some kind of AC waveform.  Another (correct) interpretation is that there are two Pulsed DC waves travelling in opposite directions with a pause in the middle.

That particular displayed wave is just the voltage output.  If Rumerouk had done the full thing – Instantaneous Voltage, Instantaneous Current and Instantaneous Power for both Input and Output, the picture will be much clearer.

But I shall focus on the “correct” interpretation.  Power comes out (positive waveform) but there is brought-in energy coming back (negative waveform).  We only have the voltage waveform at present but it should not take Rumerouk or other replicators too long to do the full measurements.  The actual energy should be the total area under the Instantaneous Power Curve.  That should be the numeric sum of the positive area + the numeric sum of the negative area. 

If Rumerouk had taken the Input Voltage, Current and Power measurements, the waveform for the Power Curve for the drive coils (INPUT) should also show a positive and negative area.  That should not be interpreted as AC energy going to the drive coils.  The above correct explanation applies.

I learned this the hard way with the Tong Wheel and FLEET.  I had the misfortune of debating with Poynt99 with Harvey as the Moderator.  Instead of relying on the waveform, the debate ended with “using the mean value” of the Instantaneous Power as the “recommended” method.

Please learn from my mistake and trust the waveforms.  The voltage waveform is NOT a simple AC.  It is two waves – a pulsed DC in the forward direction and a pulsed DC in the backward direction.  That is why the battery can be recharged without any loopback circuits!

After looking at the output voltage waveform reply 328, I am more certain that the Muller/Rumerouk device is an example of the second Divine Revelation.  Amen.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: eisnad karm on May 09, 2011, 12:58:44 AM
@hho Brian
Lutec has never been able to close loop there's...no doubt they will be building one of these now. After 10 years what have they to show for all the investors money.
This I feel is a great demo and many thanks to RomeroUK for open sourcing it
Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 09, 2011, 01:07:41 AM
I have started a parts and source listing need help completing it made a new thread just for this.

Any help would be greatly apprciated

We need a complete 100% parts listing as well as a source to make all the parts that are needed nothing left out.

We need a part quantity and a place to purchase them online in the form of a link.

100% complete no BS no guess work we need 100% proper measurments for parts that need to be made like the stator and the rotor.

I know someone I could contact with a laser cutter locally but without 100% fool proof dimensions to give this guy I cannot get him to make them the reasons are obvious.

That maplin DC to DC converter is a hard to find piece as well.

I could wind up spending thousands of dollars and many iterations and still not accomplish this task as you seem to believe...

This is not possible for the average human being you need more info while you say all the questions have been answered and your not doing
another video I don't think you will have a successful build replication without being more specific.

Maybe share with us the CAD files used for making the stator and rotor and any and every part used with measurements and specifics.

if we want replication we need more specifications its that simple.

You said it yourself this thing wont work until everything is perfect we need to know what perfect is for this device in order to achieve such a standard!

There is no way to replicate something without having a place to purchase all of the parts needed I am sorry to sound rude but it will not happen if you make it impossible to source parts.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 09, 2011, 01:07:52 AM
@Romero,

what is the ohmic resistance of one of your generator coils and the driving coil, please? And if you could even measure the inductance it would be wonderful but if not it is ok.

No where I found a reference to it.

I dismantled one of my relays purchased at RadioShack and it is a tiny coil with probably 32awg gage and it is around 150ohms. A thought that it may be way too high for this setup but never know. This way I don't have to make them myself and make it easier for others to replicate too.


Many thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 09, 2011, 01:30:02 AM
AWG 36   is 0.127 mm, square area is 0.0127 mm2,    136 ohm per 100 m ( I think that 100m per coil have been spent),
There are 7 strands, means 136/7 ... appr. 20 ohm.
7 * 0.0127 mm2 = 0.0889 mm2 total  ... means something like 0.25mm solid wire what is able for 6...7 amps in common (low turn) motor,
cheers,
khabe


AWG 32 = 0.202 mm , 0.032 mm2, and  538 ohm per km ... if you coil has 300 ohm then there is 0.55 km of wire  :o
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 01:46:03 AM
I don't understand why people are finding difficult to understand the type of wire I used.
I posted the link to my source of wires many times before.
Below is the source I bought the wire from, and the reference too:

http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html

7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu = 0.875mm
Ref: ST01250007-500

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 01:49:06 AM
Parts I have ordered so far for the new build.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280544165606&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROUND-BRIGHT-MILD-STEEL-BAR-30mm-DIA-x-500mm-LONG-EN1A-/160559436733?_trksid=p5197.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D200483819019%252B270303908644%252B280671794575%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9015277603306153476
I got it 30mm diameter so I can put it on my lathe and cut it to make sure it fits perfect on the bearings and SPROCKET CARRIERS.

https://www.hkcm.de/product_info.php?hkcm=engineering&products_id=7381&mwst=on&des=off&dna=0&fav=&adia0=&idia0=&hig0=&amass=&bmass=&hig1=&arad=&irad=&hig2=&wink=
I bought 16 and I will have them 2 togheter to make the same 8 in total.

Bearings I already have

http://www.plasticonline.co.uk/acrylic-sheets-discs/acrylic-discs/black-acrylic-discs/10mm-black/10mm-black-acrylic-disc-300mm-dia-/prod_274.html?notice=1
I bought 3 so I can glue them together to make 3cm thick.

Mosfets are going to be used now, not sure what type yet. I have about 50 irfz44 but that is the last to worry.
Mosfets drivers - I have about 8 TC4422

Cores and coils are going to be built here. Not ordered yet but I bought parts here before.
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/audio-inductors-ferrite-air-core-iron-dust.html

people can also buy existing stock coils just to use the cores, check different types and u get different cores.

More to come...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 09, 2011, 02:19:43 AM
This is why I am trying to compile a list for you so you can eliminate these types of redundant questions by saying look at this list.

Here is a list of everything and where to get it.

I am trying to help lessen the burden of these questions I see you are slowly getting upset with the repeated questions it happens in every thread takes a lots of patience to deal with it.

I think you should have Made this list a long time ago I know I would have.

Name and type of part
How many you need
Link for online purchase on where to buy it.

Otherwise you will continue to have these questions.

I suggest that you do this for your second build! It will have people replicating your device very fast!

And it will save you a lot of time answering repeat questions! It is everyones goal here to prove your device works!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 02:31:51 AM
Many thanks Romero for all the new infos.

Yes, a measurement of the coil resistance would be great.

What is about your peak to peak voltage on that scope shot ?

I am pondering about the function principle of your
coils-cores and magnet motion, how it can induce such a voltage envelope.

Seems it could maybe violate Lenz law due to the reversal in repolarizing the
ferrite cores, when the rotor magnet goes through the ferrite core
airgap.
Would be interesting to see the added voltage from all coils after the
full wave bridge rectifiers before the big capacitor.
(if you disconnect the the big cap and take a scopeshot there without
the DC to DC converter.... just the added voltages without a load and a
turning rotor)
Probably simular to a car alternator DC output with AC ripple  on it.

Is somebody here who works regularly with FEMM and LUA ?

I would like to see this magnetic gate simulated with it,
so we can see, how the magnetic flux changes inside the ferrite rod cores,
so we can see the induction voltage.

As EMdevices said, it is probably important to get the right
working point on the BH curve on the ferrite rod cores for maximum
efficiency.
If the ferrite rods are not remagnetized when the rotor magnet goes
through this magnetic gate, there will be no such sin^2 type spike
induction voltage.
So you have to be carefull, what disctances you choose to get the premagnetisation
right from the stator magnets ontop the ferrite cores.
ALso the washer can really play a role, as it can concentrate or block the fields into the direction
of the ferrite rods, so this has to be all very carefully adjusted.

No wonder that it took RomeroUK a full month to adjust it all for
maximum efficiency and OU operation.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: My Do It Energy on May 09, 2011, 02:42:37 AM
Hi Romero congratulation on your achivement, really remarkble

for those having problems with Litz wire

Litz wire is a type of cable used in electronics to carry alternating current. The wire is designed to reduce the skin effect and proximity effect losses in conductors used at frequencies up to about 1 MHz.It consists of many thin wires strands, individually insulated and twisted or woven together, following one of several carefully prescribed patterns often involving several levels (groups of twisted wires are twisted together, etc.). This winding pattern equalizes the proportion of the overall length over which each strand is at the outside of the conductor.

Mike

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 02:43:50 AM
@hartiberlin

Hi, I would do all this measurements tommorow, then I will go back to do some work instead answering unlimited questions, this will never end.
I understand that people needs every detail but they are many and I am only one.

Best regards,
Romero
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 09, 2011, 02:55:29 AM
@hartiberlin

Hi, I would do all this measurements tommorow, then I will go back to do some work instead answering unlimited questions, this will never end.
I understand that people needs every detail but they are many and I am only one.

Best regards,
Romero

forgive me for asking those final questions Romero. I understand your point of view. Unfortunately nowhere has been said the ohmic value of the two kind of coils you have. I think so far you have given ALL the necessary measurements that are necessary for replicating your work.

I know for a fact that ohmic value is of extreme importance since I played with Adams motor many times and He advices coils of very low ohmic value. So one can have complete different aspects of similar devices with such simple things like coil resistance.

I think the ohmic value and possibly the inductance will be last parts that allows a good range of variance for me to replicate and others.

Replications now is the most important thing in the world and saving time by simple measurements will save us all a great amount of time and money.

Everything else for this motor I already ordered to the best of my capacity close to your design and it is not cheap at all. The coils are the first ones I can build now and start testing but without a good range of the value of your coils I will be simply blind.

The physical aspects now can be simply guessed based on the videos and pictures available and already given info by you.

Please, forgive me for asking that. I did search this thread and nowhere it is mention.

And remember my friend, have fun with this because you ARE changing the world for good.

Many thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Rosphere on May 09, 2011, 03:50:51 AM
...I would do all this measurements tommorow, then I will go back to do some work instead answering unlimited questions, this will never end.
I understand that people needs every detail but they are many and I am only one.

and forgive me... LOL!  You laugh or you cry, romerouk.  Take the bad with the good.
So you posted your success before the manufacturing prints were complete. 
Who can blame you.

It was exciting, ...until you found yourself stuck behind a keyboard answering redundant
questions all day.  Yes, return to your bench.  Give the serious replicators enough time to
acquire materials, machine parts, and get to the tuning phase before you return. 
They may need your help then.

You are under no obligation to answer redundant or irrelevant questions. 
You'll burn yourself up and then start missing the key questions that will help someone
tune or repair their replication to success.  Please save your energy for these folks.

Please excuse me if I am wrong, but it seems like there is enough material here already
to get lots of folks to the tuning stage.  Maybe take a break from here for a week or two. 
Some may be ready to tune by then.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 09, 2011, 04:07:27 AM
Hi folks, just remembered I had these large ferrite beads that I could use. They are 3/4" diameter X 1-1/8" long X 3/16" wall thickness. They grab my neo magnets pretty good.
Maybe I'll try these as cores, they are really cheap from the surplus store, only $3.15 for 9 of them and I already have 4 on hand.
What do you folks think of these.

peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 04:10:03 AM
Hi All,
I just compiled Version 1.1 of the PDF file describing the RomeroUK selfrunning device
in detail.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=471

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: duff on May 09, 2011, 04:30:54 AM
Hi All,
I just compiled Version 1.1 of the PDF file describing the RomeroUK selfrunning device
in detail.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=471

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan,

There seems to be a problem here.

I am logged in and in spite of that when I click on the link it presents me with a login dialogue box.

You are not allowed to view the Downloads
Please login below or register an account ::)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 04:45:49 AM
Thanks Stefan!  That will help a lot of people.  I know this thing about the Litz wire keeps coming up so I really really hate to ask this.  Not being in the U.K. I would not want to buy from Romero's source so I was looking at other places BUT I keep seeing that diagram someone uploaded and it's in your PDF compilation of the 7 x 0.125 mm wire.  Here is the problem and to me it looks like a typo.  Seven 0.125 mm wires in a bundle as shown in that diagram would have an overall diameter of 0.375 mm but the diagram shows an overall of 0.875 mm.  A 3 and 8 look a lot alike at a glance so I'm fairly sure that what you have there as 0.875 mm should actually be 0.375 mm overall diameter which for U.S. people is about 27 or 26 guage wire.  Otherwise we are looking at about 19 or 20 guage wire which is a big difference in size.  I'm fairly sure at this point it should be the 0.375mm or about 26 guage for U.S. builders. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 04:47:05 AM
duff,  do you have cookies on and do you choose 'login forever'?  If not try that.  I just downloaded it no problems. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mikestocks2006 on May 09, 2011, 05:06:25 AM
Just a quick comment on using an external high efficiency motor vs the two drive coils.

While the external motor idea sounds great and it may actually work, at this point we do not know if the two drive coils also contribute to the overall system power generating performance. It is a fully dynamic system with fixed strength fields (magnets), rising and collapsing induced fields (power generation coils), and impulse externally driven fields (drive coils) all those are happening at high speed and with close proximity to each other, most likely superimposing and effecting each other.

I’ll echo what many have already written: a true replica should be as close if not identical to the original. Establish a working base line, and work from there. Because if it doesn’t work, how would you know if it is the principle or the modification/deviation from the original setup shown by romerouk?
As romerouk noted many times, small things seem to make a huge difference.

@ romerouk and all involved, great work
Thanks for taking the time to post and answer so many questions.
Mike
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 09, 2011, 05:35:10 AM
Below is a picture with the scope connected at the AC point before bridge.

Answer: I run out of neo magnets. I am sure that more magnets will increase the output. I have ordered more togheter with the magnets for the new setup.

@romerouk:

I have read through all the new posts before posting.

Thanks for answering my questions by taking closeup pictures and giving reasons why the setup is in current shape. Meanwhile, I also realize that your current build left a lot room for improvement, clearly the potential is amazing and the condition of obtaining selfrunning does not seem to be too demanding, therefore successful replication should be quite possible given the skillfulness of the people here.

Yes, I agree with you that no more demo video need be made to convince those suspicious, because that is simply impossible! Just wait until replications come out. We can all keep doubting, but no more demo helps any more. Replication is the only way to drive out all suspicions. Therefore I think it is wise to concentrate on replications, but no more persuations!

At this moment, I am still struggling with the timing. I am not sure when the hall sensor activates the driving coil yet -- even with the help of your closeup pictures. Neomagnets are quite strong, it could be the case that the hall senser is activated well before it is above the big neomagnet on the rotor. Another possibility is that the drive coil is activated when it is approaching the neomagnet next to the one that is activating the hall sensor.

With scope shots we might resolve this issue for good. I wonder if you have a scope with two pairs of probes. Then one pair of probes is fixed to the generator coil immediately before or after the driving coil, the other pair of probes is fixed to measure the voltage drop across the driving coils. This way we should be able to see for sure when the driving coil is activated in relation to its relative position to the neomagnet on the rotor. If possible, please do this for both driving coils.

Thanks a lot!

lanenal

Edit: We need a simultaneous measurement of the voltage on the generator coils immediately before or after the driving coil to determine the relatvie position.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 05:49:11 AM
I am about to get another rotor manufactured. as you know the cost is in the tooling so I pay for one is expensive.
so i can have more than one made. If any body is interested please say as I will just get them to do a few more. you will get them for the cost of what they cost me. and  postage.

this is for a rotor the dimensions are on the drawing 


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scratchrobot on May 09, 2011, 06:08:40 AM
@toranarod, how much will they cost you?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 06:15:54 AM
Several of our guru's have mentioned using Schottky diodes.  I think that's an excellent idea and I can't see how it would effect anything in a bad way (99% sure).  Can anyone recommend a particular number that would work well in this replication?  Most are cheap enough that even using all Schottky's to make FWBR's should not add that much to the cost but what model number might be best here? 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 06:18:51 AM
@toranarod, how much will they cost you?

this why I am put out expressions of interest the company is going to ring me today will a quote.
I know the bearing center may be different for others but its based on a very ready available old hard drive size. trying to make it possible for the most basic novice to have a go.  cheaper the better. the Drive is WD caviar. this is the most common.

looks like the ferrite cores are going to be 10mm they are the cheaps and easiest to get.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 06:21:41 AM
Several of our guru's have mentioned using Schottky diodes.  I think that's an excellent idea and I can't see how it would effect anything in a bad way (99% sure).  Can anyone recommend a particular number that would work well in this replication?  Most are cheap enough that even using all Schottky's to make FWBR's should not add that much to the cost but what model number might be best here?

I use them on the bridge in my Adams motor the voltage drop is very low. as a full bridge hard to get.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 09, 2011, 06:25:17 AM
Hi folks, so does anyone foresee an issue with using those large ferrite beads i posted a pic of at top of page, thanks. Right now I'm preparing the steel bolt versions, though I doubt it will work well, that's why I'm thinking about the ferrite beads, at $3.15 for 9 is a deal.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 06:37:44 AM
I use them on the bridge in my Adams motor the voltage drop is very low. as a full bridge hard to get.
Yes I know it's not common in FWBR but very easy to make the FWBR from 4 Schottky's as I know you know that.  I just would like to know what model number might be best since I'm thinking of ordering some. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 09, 2011, 06:38:34 AM
Hi All,
I just compiled Version 1.1 of the PDF file describing the RomeroUK selfrunning device
in detail.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=471

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.

Thanks Stefan.

I wonder if overunity can also backup some of the important videos as well. Youtube might find reasons to close those. Also, in some countries (like mine), youtube is masked and can't be visited.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 06:40:52 AM
Hi folks, so does anyone foresee an issue with using those large ferrite beads i posted a pic of at top of page, thanks. Right now I'm preparing the steel bolt versions, though I doubt it will work well, that's why I'm thinking about the ferrite beads, at $3.15 for 9 is a deal.
peace love light
tyson
Just guessing here but it seems they would not have the same flux pattern and probably not as strong as a solid ferrite rod.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 09, 2011, 06:47:17 AM
I am about to get another rotor manufactured. as you know the cost is in the tooling so I pay for one is expensive.
so i can have more than one made. If any body is interested please say as I will just get them to do a few more. you will get them for the cost of what they cost me. and  postage.

this is for a rotor the dimensions are on the drawing

Hi toranarod.

If you're in the U.S, I will be interested in your rotor build. Does it come with the bearings & rod too? Please let us know what the set up costs. Thanks.

chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 09, 2011, 07:17:20 AM
Hi e2matrix ,thanks for the reply.
I tested one from a previous joule thief and it doesn't have enough turns, though it seems to repel or attract my neos fairly well.
Once i get the rotor finished up, I'm gong to pick up some more of these and start winding them, in the meantime i'll try the steel bolt version.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 07:33:15 AM
Several of our guru's have mentioned using Schottky diodes.  I think that's an excellent idea and I can't see how it would effect anything in a bad way (99% sure).  Can anyone recommend a particular number that would work well in this replication?  Most are cheap enough that even using all Schottky's to make FWBR's should not add that much to the cost but what model number might be best here?

the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 09, 2011, 07:37:58 AM
Hi,
there is some misunderstanding about rotor construction: according information in forum rotor thickness is 12mm, and magnets are 10mm high, But according pictures presented Romero it looks that magnet high is more then 12mm? Can somebody explain that?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 08:44:00 AM
the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
Well actually you are one of the guru's I was hoping might answer so I guess they haven't all left :)   Thanks so much for the info! 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 09, 2011, 08:44:08 AM
Hi Romero.

I've noticed from the schematic of your circuit that you are not directly taking advantage
of the collapsing magnetic field of your drive coils when thay are in off mode.

Now there may be a good reason for this, as the introduction of feedback diodes to collect power
from the drive coils during the collapsing field event, may significantly alter the tuning of the machine. ??

But, then again, maybe you haven't tried this ??
If you have'nt already tried this, then perhaps you'd like to.

If your current operating duty cycle (on time) is lower than 30 %, then there is a very high probability that adding feedback diodes and a battery to collect the CEMF may also result in an increase in total motor torque - free of charge. This in turn may increase your total output from the gen coils?

It's an easy experiment for you to try, as it requires no tricky changes to any aspect of your current build.

Just a couple of diodes and a battery hooked up the way I've shown in a modified version of your schematic attached below ..... Perhaps you've already tried this.?

I am very curious to know how this slight addition will affect your setup. Thanks in advance if
you choose to experiment and report on the result. Understanding, if not.

Cheers from Hoptoad ..... KneeDeep
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 09:08:21 AM
the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
Now that I think about the current rating suggested I'm wondering if you knew I was planning these for each coil (using 4 as FWBR) as the current rating seems higher than what I would have imagined.  But I'm mostly guessing and I know you understand this better but my plan for these is not at the output of all coils just for each one.  Knowing that RomeroUK's 1N4007's are only rated 1.0 amp does it sound right to need 12 amp?  Although I'm not sure what his FWBR's current rating was he paralled these on so .... I'm lost in the Amperage jungle.  lol
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 09, 2011, 09:20:43 AM
I don't understand why people are finding difficult to understand the type of wire I used.
I posted the link to my source of wires many times before.
Below is the source I bought the wire from, and the reference too:

http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html

7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu = 0.875mm
Ref: ST01250007-500

7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu it  IS NEVER the same like 0.875mm wire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Square area = 3.14 * r2
0.875 mm wire  ->  0.6      mm2
0.125mm wire   ->  0.0122 mm2

To handle at least near the same amperage you neerd to use at least 47 strands,
Perhaps now you will tell us that you do not need 25A max amperage what 0.875mm wire is able in normal motor ... (where just few meters of wire used per phase).

Then lets think about resistivity:

0.875 mm wire  ->   3 ohm per 100m
0.125mm wire   -> 136 ohm per 100m

If you do not like to think about wire square area, then about resistivity you must to think earnestly,


cheers,
khabe


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 09:29:19 AM
in the meantime i'll try the steel bolt version.

Steel bolt is basically one phat shorted turn. Do not waste time...

Dunno about EMI supression beads. In general they have pretty horrible hysteresis curve and low saturation point. Also large part of the flux will loop thru hole and not cross windings (?). But in terms of eddy currents they should be better.

One possible semi-cheap source of ferrite would be separately sold I parts of the EI transformer cores. They still have low saturation but there are ones with at least good hysteresis curve. Look for ones meant for flyback transformers.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 09:33:07 AM
I believe someone said they were having trouble finding the DC-DC converter.  this one is 3 amp and while it has the name 'Vanson'  it looks the same and is on sale from Maplin for Euro buyers: Universal 3A DC Power Supply Was £21.99 Save £9.00 only £12.99
On promotion until 17/05/2011   here:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 09, 2011, 09:33:43 AM
Either you are replicating OR you are up-scaling and using bigger better coils and magnets. In which case get the best Schottky diodes you can afford. Excess amps now wont go a miss later. With 10A diodes in a bridge you got like an easy 50w per coil with 10 very large generator coils collectively 500w system.

Is this what you are building? :)

Also one other point. Once you built this some of you will want to use coil shorting to give an extreme boost of power and volts. You get 300-400v when the coil is shorted. If you plan on doing this you need like 500v diodes. At 350v and 0.5 amp you now have 175 watt per coil = 1.7Kw system. No its not too far fetched the wind power guys make these muller style systems at that power rating.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 09, 2011, 09:33:55 AM
Now that I think about the current rating suggested I'm wondering if you knew I was planning these for each coil (using 4 as FWBR) as the current rating seems higher than what I would have imagined.  But I'm mostly guessing and I know you understand this better but my plan for these is not at the output of all coils just for each one.  Knowing that RomeroUK's 1N4007's are only rated 1.0 amp does it sound right to need 12 amp?  Although I'm not sure what his FWBR's current rating was he paralled these on so .... I'm lost in the Amperage jungle.  lol

Most of the time the old adage, bigger is better is true LOL.

After all, a higher current rated diode will withstand a greater current than a lower one and therefore is less likely to be damaged, when and if, a large transient current spike occurs during operation.

The main difference in a diode's performance in a given circuit is not so much their power rating (if it is not exceeded), but their forward voltage threshold.

The forward voltage threshold will determine the power loss within the diode. The higher the threshold the greater the loss.

To give an (approximate values) example:

A. Silicon power diode: = .6 V forward voltage = .6 V  multiplied by X amount current = .6X power loss
B. Germanium power diode: = .4 V forward voltage = .4 V  multiplied by X amount current = .4X power loss


Cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 09:37:01 AM
Now that I think about the current rating suggested I'm wondering if you knew I was planning these for each coil (using 4 as FWBR) as the current rating seems higher than what I would have imagined.
[...]

hi e2m

i'm no guru here, sadly!

as mentioned above, this part was the nearest one i could find at Farnell at the moment, with a current rating  above the sort of current being handled in Romero's circuit

i mentioned looking for a lower rating (eg. 6A) in your usual suppliers (eg., Digikey, perhaps, in the US?) which should still give plenty safety margin

my very approximate estimate of Romero's system was that it's operating around the 50 Watt level (including motor + spare capacity for load)

it might appear that it's possible just to divide the current rating between the generator coils

whilst it's true that there is overlap between coil outputs, each coil could be capable of providing several amps at full load

at the moment we don't have too much detail of the performance data for the system

a couple of members have suggested that some more comprehensive load tests be carried out to 'characterise' the device's generating capacity

until we have more info, i'd suggest the minimum current rating needs to be in the region of at least 5-6A so that the diodes aren't being operated near their limit

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Mem on May 09, 2011, 09:37:47 AM
Hi Romero.

I've noticed from the schematic of your circuit that you are not directly taking advantage
of the collapsing magnetic field of your drive coils when thay are in off mode.

Now there may be a good reason for this, as the introduction of feedback diodes to collect power
from the drive coils during the collapsing field event, may significantly alter the tuning of the machine. ??

But, then again, maybe you haven't tried this ??
If you have'nt already tried this, then perhaps you'd like to.

If your current operating duty cycle (on time) is lower than 30 %, then there is a very high probability that adding feedback diodes and a battery to collect the CEMF may also result in an increase in total motor torque - free of charge. This in turn may increase your total output from the gen coils?

It's an easy experiment for you to try, as it requires no tricky changes to any aspect of your current build.

Just a couple of diodes and a battery hooked up the way I've shown in a modified version of your schematic attached below ..... Perhaps you've already tried this.?

I am very curious to know how this slight addition will affect your setup. Thanks in advance if
you choose to experiment and report on the result. Understanding, if not.

Cheers from Hoptoad ..... KneeDeep

Your idea is good. However, these is no battery in the circuit so why bother charging a battery?  But, yes collecting the  back emf from driver transistors can cool the off. It's may be an optional idea that can be useful.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
while we are on the subject of coils
I have a come up with this. here is a 15 mm litz wire coil on a ferrite former.
what is the inductance of the coils in RomeroUK motor? any body have even a close idea?

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 09, 2011, 09:47:09 AM
I believe someone said they were having trouble finding the DC-DC converter.  this one is 3 amp and while it has the name 'Vanson'  it looks the same and is on sale from Maplin for Euro buyers: Universal 3A DC Power Supply Was £21.99 Save £9.00 only £12.99
On promotion until 17/05/2011   here:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639

This website has a few options:

http://www.voltcraft.nl/notebook-netvoedingen#auto (http://www.voltcraft.nl/notebook-netvoedingen#auto)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 09:47:30 AM
Hi Romero.

I've noticed from the schematic of your circuit that you are not directly taking advantage of the collapsing magnetic field of your drive coils when thay are in off mode.
[...]
I am very curious to know how this slight addition will affect your setup. Thanks in advance if you choose to experiment and report on the result.

Understanding, if not.

Cheers from Hoptoad ..... KneeDeep

hi Hoptoad

if Romero hasn't already tried this but doesn't wish to, i'm intending to include feedback of coil-collapse energy in my build attempt, although in my case i'm planning to feedback to the buffer cap - so you should get a report back from someone  :)

cheers
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 09, 2011, 09:50:04 AM
Either you are replicating OR you are up-scaling and using bigger better coils and magnets. In which case get the best Schottky diodes you can afford. Excess amps now wont go a miss later. With 10A diodes in a bridge you got like an easy 50w per coil with 10 very large generator coils collectively 500w system.

Is this what you are building? :)

Also one other point. Once you built this some of you will want to use coil shorting to give an extreme boost of power and volts. You get 300-400v when the coil is shorted. If you plan on doing this you need like 500v diodes. At 350v and 0.5 amp you now have 175 watt per coil = 1.7Kw system. No its not too far fetched the wind power guys make these muller style systems at that power rating.

bolt, hoptoad and nul-points,  Thanks all for your help!  I was not clear on the threshold rating but knew high amp regular diodes have bigger losses.  Now I've got a much better picture and it sounds like going for a higher rating is the best idea especially if I end up scaling up.  Not real sure what I'm doing at this time but will be happy with any OU replication and go from there.  I tend to have an open design philosophy that  develops itself with the ebb and flow of ideas and play $$ available :) 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 09:54:35 AM
while we are on the subject of coils
I have a come up with this. here is a 15 mm litz wire coil on a ferrite former.
what is the inductance of the coils in RomeroUK motor? any body have even a close idea?

has any body wound a coil?

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 09, 2011, 09:56:20 AM
This website has a few options:

http://www.voltcraft.nl/notebook-netvoedingen#auto (http://www.voltcraft.nl/notebook-netvoedingen#auto)

Look on ebay for universal 12v car adaptor they are sold from China all over the world!

 Its just a switch mode PSU just pick one with a voltage selector and good wattage.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 09:58:54 AM
Romerouk what are the diameter of you coils when wound?
I have been winding coils they seem larger than the one is your photo?

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 09, 2011, 10:05:15 AM
He said he is not answering any more questions that already been answered. The only new questions is the inductance value and the resistance to be answered later when he gets time. Everything else is in the thread.

Guys you must realise no one is going to get the same bits all over the world. Just build it with what you have available its no different to making a joule thief and everyone of those is different and most of them work. Everyone is going to wind coils a bit different with different cores. So long as the re-gauging back end neo is carefully tuned it should work.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 10:09:35 AM
He said he is not answering any more questions that already been answered. The only new questions is the inductance value and the resistance to be answered later when he gets time. Everything else is in the thread.

Guys you must realise no one is going to get the same bits all over the world. Just build it with what you have available its no different to making a joule thief and everyone of those is different and most of them work. Everyone is going to wind coils a bit different with different cores. So long as the re-gauging back end neo is carefully tuned it should work.

OK you go a point
I will go with what i have built.

I will let you know what the inductance is very soon.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 10:13:58 AM
I have a come up with this. here is a 15 mm litz wire coil on a ferrite former.

Ferrite discs on both sides of the former will act as shields to external magnetic fields parallel to axis.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 09, 2011, 10:18:41 AM
Ferrite discs on both sides of the former will act as shields to external magnetic fields parallel to axis.
Hi there is nice pictures!
What computer program you are used to get it?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 10:23:23 AM
Hi there is nice pictures!
What computer program you are used to get it?

Hehe, nice - not :D useful - yes. It is ViziMag. Good tool for 1-minute concept checks - very easy to use.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 09, 2011, 10:24:24 AM
Ferrite discs on both sides of the former will act as shields to external magnetic fields parallel to axis.

Glad to see that there is at least one person understanding about magnetism ;)

But there is second magnet on the top side, you need to reckon with as well,

When someone speaks about saturation then ... look at huge air gap between coil and  10...12 mm thick magnet - about what kind of saturation we are speaking? ::)

cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 09, 2011, 10:36:08 AM

snip ... these is no battery in the circuit so why bother charging a battery?

snip...

Charging the battery is an incidental bonus. The circuit as shown produces a unidirectional current through the coils from their own collapsing field which extends the duration of the applied power pulse within them.

Provided the duration of the extended pulse does not exceed 50 % duty cycle, this will cause an increase in rotor speed and torque, thus giving rise to the expectation of an even greater gen coil output.

If the drive coils are very low impedance, the battery does not need to be in the feedback circuit, and the diodes can connect directly to the positive rail, resulting in a beneficial effect on rotor torque.

If, however the coils have too much impedance, the battery's capacitance properties, in the feedback collector circuit, ensures that the timing constant of the whole feedback circuit is low, and wont cause the extended applied power (as opposed to supplied) to the coils to exceed 50 % duty cycle.

Impedance and duty cycle play a great role in whether the feedback circuit is a benefit or a constraint to rotor torque and speed.

Cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 09, 2011, 10:38:09 AM
hi Hoptoad

if Romero hasn't already tried this but doesn't wish to, i'm intending to include feedback of coil-collapse energy in my build attempt, although in my case i'm planning to feedback to the buffer cap - so you should get a report back from someone  :)

cheers
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

Great.  Curious as always.   :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 10:52:04 AM
But there is second magnet on the top side, you need to reckon with as well,

And that magnet is actually somewhat shielded by metal washer. Rendered sketch to show entire picture as I understand it.

about what kind of saturation we are speaking?

Eventually would be nice to make airgap smaller. I'm not going for exact replica, so my mistake - was thinking rather of my own project.

PS. Besides washer there are eddys running around in the magnets coatings, which are btw highly conductive :) It almost seems like conspiracy, strongest magnets are provided with conducting coating to degrade their performance in dynamic systems :D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 11:35:13 AM
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money . I plan to compromise by building a good shaft and rotor and then experimenting with the other bits .
           Here is an important question . What is the orientation of the magnets on top of the coils? If we assume that all rotor magnets are north pole up , are the magnets on top of the coils north pole up or south pole up . Also I need to learn more about Hall effect switches .Obviously , the motor drive coil needs to be energised as a magnet approaches it , and switched off as the magnet comes to its closest point to the coil . I am not quite clear at the moment what causes it to switch off at this point .

I am doing both
for speed and diversity i am building with what i have in stock. and I almost have all the materials anyway. left for dozens of other projects.
will also replicate to the exact specification, thats a longer term project it will take a week or so to get stuff made and shipped in.
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 12:26:49 PM
just trying to get an idea of the wire required to wind the coils. this is based on 7 strands of .2  so .125 will be inside this figure.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 12:38:41 PM
Hi all,

I see there are questions about the rotor being smaller that the magnets lenght.
I am not at home now to recheck but I know for sure that the rotor was made from 4  0.3mm discs.
During the initial building and testings I have changed the rotor, changed the magnets,... It might be a 1cm + 0.5mm magnets togheter, I remember having that on the rotor at one point, but I am not sure, I must check later.
I had to use the heat gun to take the magnets off, initially I dan them in NSNS configuration.
I had measured the inductance and it is 1.203mH plus and minus, not all coils are exact value but with the magnets on the rotor being close to them that might not be exact.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 09, 2011, 12:40:18 PM
What's the secret? The even/odd arrangement?
Is it really necessary to use litz wire?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 09, 2011, 12:51:12 PM
Hi all,

I see there are questions about the rotor being smaller that the magnets lenght.
I am not at home now to recheck but I know for sure that the rotor was made from 4  0.3mm discs.
During the initial building and testings I have changed the rotor, changed the magnets,... It might be a 1cm + 0.5mm magnets togheter, I remember having that on the rotor at one point, but I am not sure, I must check later.
I had to use the heat gun to take the magnets off, initially I dan them in NSNS configuration.
I had measured the inductance and it is 1.203mH plus and minus, not all coils are exact value but with the magnets on the rotor being close to them that might not be exact.
Thank you RomeoUK,
I will wait for answer. Just be careful do not destroy working unit.
May I ask make oscillograms from motor coils to, also from couple of generator coils, and to measure amplitude and period of pulses. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 12:51:17 PM
just trying to get an idea of the wire required to wind the coils. this is based on 7 strands of .2  so .125 will be inside this figure.
the winding space is only 1cm. the core left goes thru a hole into the top and bottom supports but not touching the magnets.

I got almost 400 emails since yesterday, ...oh my god, what should I do?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
Hi all,

I see there are questions about the rotor being smaller that the magnets lenght.
I am not at home now to recheck but I know for sure that the rotor was made from 4  0.3mm discs.
During the initial building and testings I have changed the rotor, changed the magnets,... It might be a 1cm + 0.5mm magnets togheter, I remember having that on the rotor at one point, but I am not sure, I must check later.
I had to use the heat gun to take the magnets off, initially I dan them in NSNS configuration.
I had measured the inductance and it is 1.203mH plus and minus, not all coils are exact value but with the magnets on the rotor being close to them that might not be exact.

Thank you for you time The Henrie's can be a good guide in coil design.
working on coils all day so i have a good starting point now. If you are still there what sort of former did you use on ether end of the ferrite rod to hold the wire in place and is it still stuck on the end of the coil looks like a plastic washer. or is it?
one of the biggest problems I have always had is find a good bobbin to winding the wire around.     
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: sigis on May 09, 2011, 12:54:45 PM
just trying to get an idea of the wire required to wind the coils. this is based on 7 strands of .2  so .125 will be inside this figure.
Hello,
From photos looks, that high of that coil is about 10mm. It looks that not enough space to place 300 windings?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 12:57:47 PM
I got almost 400 emails since yesterday, ...oh my god, what should I do?

Do like I do at my workplace, when there are more than 100 unread e-mails just mark them "read" and continue with business as usual :) Usually ones life does not get worse when doing that :D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 12:59:20 PM
Hello,
From photos looks, that high of that coil is about 10mm. It looks that not enough space to place 300 windings?

Thats what I thought, but i think it fits now i have done some calculations. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Overunityguide on May 09, 2011, 01:06:02 PM
Hi romerouk great work on this Muller motor generator setup.

Is it possible to show some extra video footage where you switch the dc to dc converter gradually from 12V back to 4.5V and hereby showing the input voltage for the dc to dc converter (rectified output of the generator) for each single step?
I already know that you showed earlier that for the 12.05V out of the dc to dc converter the input was about 15 volts

Good luck to all replicators and with Kind Regards JdR.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 01:06:18 PM
Hello,
From photos looks, that high of that coil is about 10mm. It looks that not enough space to place 300 windings?
As you can see in the pictures  the windings are beyond the  coil size, I should have used bigger coils but I didn't have, finding coils bobbins is a pain.The coils bobbins are one of the weakest points in my design, now I will have them custom made but I need to get the system togheter do some testings, trying different dimensions for the coils, must try  Iron Powder cores then I will decide to the right dimensions.I am thinking to 4 cm/2cm not sure yet for the core size, still testing.
Maybe people who knows a good source should place a link for all others to know.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 09, 2011, 01:11:14 PM
You could try to put a 12V DC to 110/220V AC convertor on the coils to form a usable signal and see how much it can draw.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 09, 2011, 01:14:01 PM
@Alan . It is too early to ask what is the secret , until there are several replications . The use of multistrand wire seems to give a 2 volt increase in out put .Replicate first and then experiment .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 09, 2011, 01:14:10 PM
@RomeroUK

I can only imagine your world is getting a little upside down.

I suspect while the word is going around like fire, your e-mail box will get even more full.

I suggest you make a choice of your own.

I can not think for you, but if you have the intention to not sell, and keep the open source replications and improvements here on the forum, i suggest you use an email filter to filter out all post related to your device to a separate folder, and indeed just ignore them, erase them, or take a beer and have a good LAUGH! 


Do not forget to keep smiling, and work in your own pace, style and comfort. If you can manage that, and keep us around here a little informed and guided, you better simply ignore and not read the e-mail, because they will confuse, irritate or tempt you one way ore the other.

When you need some help, don't hesitate to ask around in the forum, i'm sure people around here are willing and capable of help.
I for one could, if you are interested,  i could make a total 3d drawing replication of your device, just let me know.

Good luck, trust your instincts, and keep those magnets spinning!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: norman6538 on May 09, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
Harti - the pdf document you uploaded seems to be encrypted.
Norman
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 09, 2011, 01:39:40 PM
@ RomeroUK

I suggest you post in 'Big Letters' to read the Whole thread and you will not be answering any more emails. Just delete them all.
I have resisted PM'ing you because of exactly what you have said recently; Too many emails!!!

I am coming along nicely with my parts acquisition and have all my cores cut and ready to glue to the end-cheeks, magnets in the post and various sundries on order from other places.



@everyone                      Most of the questions have been asked

Several of the UK replicators have a blog that is being updated continually with information collated from this site and other places about Bill Muller's device and RomeroUK's replication, as well as information about our individual replication attempts.

After several days of reading this is starting to become understood.

Patience my friends, much more to come

bourne
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 01:39:40 PM
As you can see in the pictures  the windings are beyond the  coil size, I should have used bigger coils but I didn't have, finding coils bobbins is a pain.The coils bobbins are one of the weakest points in my design, now I will have them custom made but I need to get the system togheter do some testings, trying different dimensions for the coils, must try  Iron Powder cores then I will decide to the right dimensions.I am thinking to 4 cm/2cm not sure yet for the core size, still testing.
Maybe people who knows a good source should place a link for all others to know.
I know you are very much in demand. you have answered lots of questions. Thank you so much I hope you and your family are safe.
good luck.     
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 01:54:55 PM
Hi all, I have deleted all my emails     by mistake...
sorry!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Overunityguide on May 09, 2011, 02:00:59 PM
Hi romerouk great work on this Muller motor generator setup.

Is it possible to show some extra video footage where you switch the dc to dc converter gradually from 12V back to 4.5V and hereby showing the input voltage for the dc to dc converter (rectified output of the generator) for each single step?
I already know that you showed earlier that for the 12.05V out of the dc to dc converter the input was about 15 volts

Good luck to all replicators and with Kind Regards JdR.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: ramset on May 09, 2011, 02:11:50 PM
bourne
Can you post a link to the Blog,or any replicator sites ?
@ Romero
Keep those Positive Vibes Going!
There is Power in the Positive..............[O.U even:=}

Thanks
Chet
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 09, 2011, 02:38:37 PM
Hi Romerouk,

Congratulations on this replication + improvement!  I want to thank you for sharing so many specific details with all of us.  I am looking forward seeing if I can replicate your results.  I have all the parts on order now.  Regardless of the results I achieve this is going to be a fun build.

I have a little experience with being overloaded with e-mail and the same questions being asked over and over again.  My recommendation is to not try and answer each question individually, but let them accumulate and then answer the most asked questions.  Of course, if a question is actually crucial to the design then it might need a specific answer.  Also, do not worry about proving it is not fake.  The only way to prove that it’s real is for us to all replicate the device.

Best regards
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 02:44:27 PM
Hi all, I have deleted all my emails     by mistake...
sorry!

as my young cousin used to say:

    "oh dear!  what a shame!  ....never mind!"    ;)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 03:01:14 PM
Hi Romerouk,

Congratulations on this replication + improvement!  I want to thank you for sharing so many specific details with all of us.  I am looking forward seeing if I can replicate your results.  I have all the parts on order now.  Regardless of the results I achieve this is going to be a fun build.

I have a little experience with being overloaded with e-mail and the same questions being asked over and over again.  My recommendation is to not try and answer each question individually, but let them accumulate and then answer the most asked questions.  Of course, if a question is actually crucial to the design then it might need a specific answer.  Also, do not worry about proving it is not fake.  The only way to prove that it’s real is for us to all replicate the device.

Best regards
I hope someone here is going to replicate it soon and have all this questions addressed to him.

To all:
Don't ask me to do more videos, and measure every inch of it, this is taking all my time, instead of working and doing something productive.
I know skycollection - jorge sent me an email earlier but was deleted.
If you see this message please send it again, I would answer to you.

Best regards,
Romero
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 09, 2011, 03:05:02 PM
Inexpensive buck/boost power supplies on Ebay.


http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-DC-Adjustable-Auto-Boost-Buck-Regulator-Power-Supply-/220768465965?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3366d3742d

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-34V-4-60V-DC-DC-Boost-Charge-Power-Supply-LM2587-/260779132956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item3cb7a5c81c

Ben K4ZEP

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 09, 2011, 03:10:56 PM
An even better supply.  Voltage and current regulation if needed.


http://cgi.ebay.com/High-power-DC-DC-Adjustable-boost-power-supply-modules-/120656343466?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c17adb1aa

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 03:19:30 PM
After answering to jorge message I realised that I need to post the answer to his question.
Can i use power supply?
Actually for the preliminary tests it is a must to use a power supply that stays stable and you know that the voltage is not going down and nothing is changing.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 03:37:38 PM
Stefan,

There seems to be a problem here.

I am logged in and in spite of that when I click on the link it presents me with a login dialogue box.

You are not allowed to view the Downloads
Please login below or register an account ::)

Just clear your cache and cookies and please log on again,
so you have a cookie on your harddrive.

Also I did it with the normal open Office Writer Default settings
to export to PDF, so I did not "Encrypt" anything...

Use FoxIT PDF reader, it is much faster than Adobe PDF Reader.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 03:40:14 PM
Thanks Stefan!  That will help a lot of people.  I know this thing about the Litz wire keeps coming up so I really really hate to ask this.  Not being in the U.K. I would not want to buy from Romero's source so I was looking at other places BUT I keep seeing that diagram someone uploaded and it's in your PDF compilation of the 7 x 0.125 mm wire.  Here is the problem and to me it looks like a typo.  Seven 0.125 mm wires in a bundle as shown in that diagram would have an overall diameter of 0.375 mm but the diagram shows an overall of 0.875 mm.  A 3 and 8 look a lot alike at a glance so I'm fairly sure that what you have there as 0.875 mm should actually be 0.375 mm overall diameter which for U.S. people is about 27 or 26 guage wire.  Otherwise we are looking at about 19 or 20 guage wire which is a big difference in size.  I'm fairly sure at this point it should be the 0.375mm or about 26 guage for U.S. builders.

Hmm,
I edited the posted wire size picture from User Arthus,
as RomeroUK said his total wire diameter was 0.875 mm.
Also you can see on his coil-rotor pictures, that the wire is almost a 1 mm
in diameter just from the look and comparison on these photos...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: merlynmetal on May 09, 2011, 03:59:11 PM
Hi,

Reading the thread with great interest. Wonderful job Romero! Everybody is waiting for such a breakthrough. Keep the good work going!
Concerning the ferrite rods there is a variety of sizes at Farnell including 6mm and 8mm in diameter:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500006+1002386&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=ferrite+rod&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 03:59:52 PM
the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np




Also quite nice:

MBR 1645
 Schottky 16A 45V TO220 about 0.70 Euros so about 1 US$ per pice.

http://www.segor.de/bilder/00003664.jpg
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 09, 2011, 04:23:55 PM
also look in your old or scrap PC-Power-Supplies.

30 amp and
2way 50Amp (100) Amp
devices inside

To-220 and TO216 = To-3P

cost (mostly) nothing
GP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 04:38:51 PM
also look in your old or scrap PC-Power-Supplies.

30 amp and
2way 50Amp (100) Amp
devices inside

To-220 and TO216 = To-3P

cost (mostly) nothing
GP
I have lots of them, a big box full of S30D45CS ; SBL1640CT; STPS3045CW; STPR1620CT,SB3045ST; S20C10CC,....
I have tested those and performance was lower than existing ones 1n4001. Maybe they do work good but at higher frequency BUT not in my current setup.
Maybe someone can explain and help me decide what to use in the next setup.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 04:47:41 PM
For those who have problems to download the latest PDF file,
go here:

http://www.multiupload.com/TQ5UZT4YXU


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Aedini on May 09, 2011, 04:56:34 PM
Hi Romerouk:
   I was able to get amorphous alloys, But also in accordance with the requirements and the size of my production, If I use it to make the coil core, Will get better effect?
 
   The following are commonly used in magnetic parameters of comparison:

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 05:05:21 PM

[...]
 S30D45CS ; SBL1640CT;.....[etc]
 
I have tested those and performance was lower than existing ones 1n4001. [...]
 
Maybe someone can explain and help me decide what to use in the next setup.

hi Romero

when you tested these other diodes and found they weren't as good as 1N4001, did you test them in parallel to the FWBR, or just 4 separate of these diodes (making a FWBR at each coil)?

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 09, 2011, 05:13:27 PM
Hi all, I have deleted all my emails     by mistake...
sorry!

Hehe made me laugh. I am having trouble keeping up with reading all the posts (about 10 pages per day so far) and a few PM's.
I would not like waking up to 400 emails!

@ramset the link is the little globe under my name, to the left   
<<<<<<<<<
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 09, 2011, 05:40:37 PM
hi Romero

when you tested these other diodes and found they weren't as good as 1N4001, did you test them in parallel to the FWBR, or just 4 separate of these diodes (making a FWBR at each coil)?

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
I have tested them separate, before having this messy diodes on top of the bridge recifier.

The test was done for a single coil pair, not all togheter.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 09, 2011, 05:52:35 PM
This might be helpfull for those who cannot find the specified DC/DC supply.

Rhino 3000mA DC/DC Car Adapter:  http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rhino-3000mA-DC-DC-Car-Adapter/16318456?findingMethod=rr
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 06:23:50 PM
I was able to get amorphous alloys, But also in accordance with the requirements and the size of my production, If I use it to make the coil core, Will get better effect?

Should be superior to ferrite, for example you can make much more narrow gaps w/o saturating cores => more output. If it works at all :D
From where did you get the stuff?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 06:27:23 PM
I have tested them separate, before having this messy diodes on top of the bridge recifier.

The test was done for a single coil pair, not all togheter.

ok, thanks for the info Romero

not all type of schottky diodes have a low forward voltage drop - and also, the voltage drop may be higher if the current flow is near to the max current rating - so is it possible that the particular diodes which you tried were not suitable for the current from the coil?

the 1N4001 only has a current rating of 1A, and a max voltage drop of approx 1V - do you happen to know off-hand what the rating of your bridge recitifiers are?

the SB1240 example i posted earlier has a forward voltage of 0.45V and a current handling of 12A, so a schottky like this should still give a low voltage drop at the current levels in your dynamo

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 09, 2011, 06:57:33 PM
 A few thoughts on winding coils . Today I got 3 degaussing coils from the scrapyard . All three were wound with normal wire , not multistrand , so that idea is out . In Romereo`s  design , the core only protrudes a short distance beyond the bobbin . This is a shame because it is probably not quite long enough to grip the protrusion in a drill chuck  , which would make the winding quicker and easier . If you are using cut down ferrite rods , you could make it longer , but this might spoil the magnetic properties .I f you "roll your own" multistrand ,do not twist it too tight . indeed it will wind better if you do not twist it at all .If you can mount the coil in a hand cranked drill fixed in the vice just let the coil pick up the wire from the floor like a winch . If , instead of using a bobbin you glue the coil cheeks direct to the ferrite , make sure they are firm .Winding wire creates a lot of pressure , As in wire tension x number of turns .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mikestocks2006 on May 09, 2011, 07:07:58 PM
I have lots of them, a big box full of S30D45CS ; SBL1640CT; STPS3045CW; STPR1620CT,SB3045ST; S20C10CC,....
I have tested those and performance was lower than existing ones 1n4001. Maybe they do work good but at higher frequency BUT not in my current setup.
Maybe someone can explain and help me decide what to use in the next setup.
@romerouk
This maybe of relevance ,
"The most evident limitations of Schottky diodes are the relatively low reverse voltage rating for silicon-metal Schottky diodes, 50 V and below, and a relatively high reverse leakage current. Diode designs have been improving over time. Voltage ratings now can reach 200 V. Reverse leakage current, because it increases with temperature, leads to a thermal instability issue. This often limits the useful reverse voltage to well below the actual rating."

While the forward voltage drop is typically lower about 50% less, for example S30D45CS vs 1N4001 , the reverse leakage current is much higher, 5miliAmps at 25C all the way up to 80 miliAmps at 100C vs 5 to 50 microAmps.
This can be a noticeable issue especially if the rectifiers are heating up.
I hope this helps
Mike

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 07:33:58 PM
Well, maybe it is better to put all outputs coils then in series
for higher voltage outputs and only have a normal
silicon diode bridge rectifier then at the end.
Then you could also use a DC to DC converter with high efficiency to transform
the violtage down again.
This way you will only loose power in the ONE bridge rectifier and not
in all rectifiers... This could also save a lot of wasted power in the circuit
and it is cheaper as you don´t need so many rectifiers....
If you make the coils much bigger also a higher current should be possible at
the higher series voltage.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 09, 2011, 07:37:15 PM
Should be superior to ferrite, for example you can make much more narrow gaps w/o saturating cores => more output. If it works at all :D
From where did you get the stuff?
I found this supplier:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/443365023/power_amorphous_cores.html
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 09, 2011, 07:47:26 PM
@ Hartiberlin. Anything is worth a try but perhaps you would have problems . As the number of magnets is different to the number of coils , the coils would be out of phase with each other .Some would be "pushing" while some were "pulling" if you understand what i mean . That is my opinion .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 09, 2011, 07:53:27 PM
This might be helpfull for those who cannot find the specified DC/DC supply.

Rhino 3000mA DC/DC Car Adapter:  http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rhino-3000mA-DC-DC-Car-Adapter/16318456?findingMethod=rr

Hi Lasersaber,

They also have a 2500 mA (2.5 amp) available for half the price of the 3 amp one!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rhino-2500mA-DC-DC-Car-Adapter/16318457?findingMethod=rr

Boy I wish I could build this economically!   Already have over $200 parts on order for my build.  Whew....


Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 08:20:24 PM
@ Hartiberlin. Anything is worth a try but perhaps you would have problems . As the number of magnets is different to the number of coils , the coils would be out of phase with each other .Some would be "pushing" while some were "pulling" if you understand what i mean . That is my opinion .

Okay, you are right,
this could lead to avoidable problems so some coils might break then the rotation.
So it is best first to try the original setup, you are right !

Sorry.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 08:25:39 PM
I found this supplier:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/443365023/power_amorphous_cores.html

"Material:Ni-Zn DN85H DN100H"

Look the specs:
http://www.chinadmegc.com/chinadmegc/chinese/images/bigarea/niexin.pdf

Seems just rather crappy NiZn ferrite :(

Since most ppl seem to be from Europe, and here is hardest to get proper stuff. Maybe try group buy if someone finds right stuff.... ? Of course it would be very messy unless someone organizes it properly...

For example these guys have high-end stuff:
http://www.gammamet.ru/en/ster_sl.htm
But would be pointless to try to order 10 cores :D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 09, 2011, 08:30:14 PM
This one is in the Netherlands and accepts paypal

FERRIETSTAVEN
=============

FAT35    35 x  6.4 mm  Ferrietstaaf                                         0.41
FAT59    59 x  10  mm  Ferrietstaaf, bewikkeld 250 µH
                       //120pF>1MHz  //2n7>130kHz grotere spoelen voorr.    1.14
FAT120  120 x   8  mm  Ferrite (Fairite mix 43)                             3.90
FAT175  175 x  10  mm  Ferrietstaaf                                         5.40
FAT180  180 x  15  mm  Ferrietstaaf                                         6.78
FAT200  200 x  10  mm  Ferrietstaaf                                         4.90

Nog langere staven zijn extreem duur, het verdient daarom aanbeveling ze
samen te stellen uit onze voorraadtypen; dit gaat eenvoudig door verlijmen,
eventueel in combinatie met een kunststof of kartonnen kokertje over de
verbinding.

18x3           Ferrietstaafje                                              0.23

Prices in Euro


Source: http://www.xs4all.nl/~barendh/Indexned.htm (http://www.xs4all.nl/~barendh/Indexned.htm)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Collapsingfield on May 09, 2011, 08:32:33 PM
Just for fun: three similar magnets + two ferrite rods
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 09, 2011, 08:43:45 PM
Many thanks for the flux animation.
I wonder what would happen, if your used
a iron backplate from the upper top stator
magnet to the lower stator magnet to close the
magnetic fields.

Would indeed concentrate much more flux into the airgap
where the rotor magnet goes through.

Also pretty interesting to see, that in the center of the
coil´s ferrite rods there are opposing fields, when the
rotor magnet goes through.

Interesting would be to set it up that the
ferrite rod would then have a reversed flux field.
This would need the stator magnets to be further away from
the ferrite rod cores.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 09, 2011, 08:46:07 PM
@Collapsing field .That was a very interesting and relevant simulation . Now can you [or anyone] answer this question . What would ne the effect if the ferrite core was lengthened by [a] 25% and 100% . the reason I ask is that i am trying to find out if the length of the core is critical . The main reason is that some people are anxious to work with materials they have easily available .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 09, 2011, 08:49:23 PM
SNIP Don Smith

Magnetic permeability is the counterpart of negative
resistance. Resonating with negative magnetic resistance, it pumps energy from the Earth's ambient
background. Magnetic permeability is the ratio of flux density (Earth's B field) to the magnetizing force
(H) in oersteds.
Magnetostrictive materials are piezoelectric in character, and have a very high resistance to electrical
current flow. Examples are:
1. Permealloy Negative Magnetic Permeability
> 80,000
2. Sendust Negative Magnetic Permeability
30,000 -120,000
3. Metglas Negative Magnetic Permeability
> 200,000
4. Iron with ( 34% ) Cobalt Magnetic Permeability 13,000
5. New Technology Magnetic Permeability
> 1,000,000

Look for high Permeability cores Metglass and above. See scope shot taken off coils shows not AC but pulsed Alternating DC with resting time.  This rest period is the ZERO POINT its where the core undergoes negative entropy and put energy into the system. Be interesting to see current at this point i would expect to see current at max when the voltage is at zero point thus for a moment the VSWR is max for a standing wave condition.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 09, 2011, 09:35:38 PM
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me . HE MUST HAVE TRIED THIS , AS OTHERWISE , THE LOWER COILS COULD BE DOING LITTLE EXCEPT WASTE ENERGY . Has he discussed this with anyone else please ?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 09:36:26 PM
@Collapsing field .That was a very interesting and relevant simulation . Now can you [or anyone] answer this question . What would ne the effect if the ferrite core was lengthened by [a] 25% and 100% . the reason I ask is that i am trying to find out if the length of the core is critical . The main reason is that some people are anxious to work with materials they have easily available .

good question, neptune
(and good point earlier about the possible 'cancelling' effect of trying the coils in series)

i'm planning to mount my coils 'inside-out' which means that my cores will need to pass right thro' the stator 'decks' (and obviously the stator decks will now need to be close to the rotor) to maintain a short gap between core & rotor-mag

some spare core will be used in passing thro the stator deck, any remaining spare will be at the end where the stator mags are placed, so i'm hoping that i won't need to cut off this excess part of the core, since

 a) it's away from the coil-rotor interaction;
 b) the stator mag adjustment can be used to compensate for the extra 'unused' core at the outer ends

if these assumptions hold, then the the core length becomes less of an issue

it seems like this approach at least gives us another option to dealing with extra core lengths, possibly up to 100% of Romero's

cheers
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 09, 2011, 09:49:29 PM
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me . HE MUST HAVE TRIED THIS , AS OTHERWISE , THE LOWER COILS COULD BE DOING LITTLE EXCEPT WASTE ENERGY . Has he discussed this with anyone else please ?

If you will look at all the videos, especially the one where he suspends it, you will see the lower coils do have the bias magnets on them.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 09, 2011, 09:52:16 PM
@Romero

Thanks for the inductance.

Can you, pleaae, measure the resistance?

Thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 09:53:11 PM
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me
[...]

hi again

yes, at 09:38m into the pre-self-running video you can clearly see mags on the lower deck in a low view thro' the side of the rig

hope this helps
np

[EDIT ** apologies for the duplicated answer, Ben - our posts clashed ** ]

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Collapsingfield on May 09, 2011, 09:57:20 PM
Other config with stronger rotor magnet.

Best Regards
Collapsingfield
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 09, 2011, 10:04:53 PM
hi again

yes, at 09:38m into the pre-self-running video you can clearly see mags on the lower deck in a low view thro' the side of the rig

hope this helps
np

[EDIT ** apologies for the duplicated answer, Ben - our posts clashed ** ]
 

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)


Hi NP,

No problem, happened to me too.  I seemed to have missed where Romoro gave the inductance.  Has he ever said the resistance?  I'm assuming about 6 ohms per coil based on current in motor side of the coils X 2 in series.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 09, 2011, 10:11:21 PM
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me . HE MUST HAVE TRIED THIS , AS OTHERWISE , THE LOWER COILS COULD BE DOING LITTLE EXCEPT WASTE ENERGY . Has he discussed this with anyone else please ?

@neptune

page 5 reply66 from RomeroUK, 2nd picture shows magnets and iron washers on the 'lower deck' coils.


@collapsingfield

Nice simulations, it would be good to see that in 3D. A single rotor magnet sliding through the torus of fields created by the upper and lower magnet/core combinations.

I am finding the magnetic 'tuning' of this easier and easier to understand. I can't wait to get something together to tinker with.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 09, 2011, 10:14:35 PM

Hi NP,

No problem, happened to me too.  I seemed to have missed where Romoro gave the inductance.  Has he ever said the resistance?  I'm assuming about 6 ohms per coil based on current in motor side of the coils X 2 in series.

Ben K4ZEP

yeah, things are moving so fast round here you're afraid to blink  :)

i haven't seen Romero quote a resistance yet but this is his comment bout the inductance:

"I had measured the inductance and it is 1.203mH plus and minus, not all coils are exact value but with the magnets on the rotor being close to them that might not be exact."

cheers

np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Thaelin on May 09, 2011, 10:23:20 PM
Hi Romero:
   Well, I will be hounding on your back door shortly. I was out today and found 2 16"X5/8" plywood rounds and a 12"X3/4 press board round. This saved me all the time to make them. I have only now to drill the coil mount holes and the magnet holes. For mounting I used two 6" alu cast pulleys and a 1/2" stainless shaft into two precision bearings. I will use another pulley outside to mount the hall magnets to for the motor part. Coils next on 3/4" ferrite slugs using #30 wire that I have.
   Just couldn't resist this as I had most all the parts already. Transistors will be IRFZ40 power NMOS fets since I have a bunch. Switch mode regulator soon as I can run one down.

All in all, not much left to get.

thay
 
Edit:  I see that wally mart has the regulators so that done too.. thanks guys

I hope someone here is going to replicate it soon and have all this questions addressed to him.

To all:
Don't ask me to do more videos, and measure every inch of it, this is taking all my time, instead of working and doing something productive.
I know skycollection - jorge sent me an email earlier but was deleted.
If you see this message please send it again, I would answer to you.

Best regards,
Romero
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 10:58:00 PM
I cannot find reference to the gape between the magnets and the coils?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: excessAlex on May 09, 2011, 11:00:59 PM
Hello everyone, I'm one another (yet another) new user in this thread :D

many thanks to RomeroUK for his work and for sharing valuable information, thank you all for your cooperation, I follow in silence from now on.

this can be useful in order to build suitable cores?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZE-pIXipm4

There are many sites where you can buy powder for each type of requirement ( I do not mean drugs! :D) .. just look around with google

Alex ;D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: LtBolo on May 09, 2011, 11:02:59 PM
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me . HE MUST HAVE TRIED THIS , AS OTHERWISE , THE LOWER COILS COULD BE DOING LITTLE EXCEPT WASTE ENERGY . Has he discussed this with anyone else please ?

Even if he did not have the lower magnet(s), the lower coils would still not be wasting energy, they would simply not be as efficient. The stator magnets are simply establishing a magnetic bias, so when the rotor magnet comes through, you get the best possible rotation of the magnetic field in the coil.

I don't think Muller's original implementation used those magnets; he reversed every other rotor magnet to produce the same result. It is well possible to make it work that way I'm sure, it may simply be easier to get it right doing it the way RomeroUK did it. The challenge to Muller's approach would likely be to get the rotor magnet's field to push all the way up the stator coil, rather than wrapping back to the next rotor magnet. Not hard, but you have to plan for it. Failure to do so would result in a serious reduction in output performance and project failure.

Looking forward to the first wave of replicators! We'd love to jump in with our own, after you guys have paved the way. ;)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: LtBolo on May 09, 2011, 11:13:25 PM
Was thinking a little about the drive circuit. Don't know for sure, but this design may give a maximum theoretical output of 200%. I saw some suggestion to that effect in some of Muller's stuff, and that appears to be where RomeroUK is once losses are accounted for. In order to get the output power levels to meaningful levels then, the drive levels are going to have to be raised as the output load is increased. Probably only two good ways to do that: 1) increase drive voltage, and/or 2) increase drive pulse width.

This looks like a super candidate for a micro-controller, which might also simplify the drive pulse management. Rather than hall effect sensors and trigger magnets, it might make sense to move to an encoder and quadrature input. With sufficient encoder resolution, you could very accurately control drive pulses to increase power. Could also use the micro to control supply voltage, allowing the supply voltage to increase when you needed more output.

Yeah, that's raising the level of difficultly to a 9.9...but I am licking my chops to jump into that. :D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 09, 2011, 11:15:56 PM
Well, maybe it is better to put all outputs coils then in series
for higher voltage outputs and only have a normal
silicon diode bridge rectifier then at the end.
Then you could also use a DC to DC converter with high efficiency to transform
the violtage down again.
This way you will only loose power in the ONE bridge rectifier and not
in all rectifiers... This could also save a lot of wasted power in the circuit
and it is cheaper as you don´t need so many rectifiers....
If you make the coils much bigger also a higher current should be possible at
the higher series voltage.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan,

In case the output coils are connected in series, the output current flows through all the coils all the time and this could cause a much different situation with respect to the present case where each output coil is 'isolated' from each other by the FWBs so the load current cannot flow through all of them all the time: This can be an benefit inherently utilized in the present setup. 

Would be good to know Romero's understanding on this, especially if he already tested the output coils in series connection.  I guess he did  not choose the trouble of using as many diode bridges as the number of output coils without good reason.

IF your series coil suggestion does not cause any negative effect on the output power, then I do agree with it. Even the relatively cheap PC supply 'boxes' could be used for accepting the much higher AC output voltage for the series coils and would convert it down the DC 12V, 5V etc.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bourne on May 09, 2011, 11:30:23 PM
I cannot find reference to the gap between the magnets and the coils?

I think 3mm-4mm has been mentioned. But this is the magnetic tuning gap along with the gap between core and fixed magnets.
all these gaps should be adjusted to allow magnetic interaction without being over-powering and locking the rotor down to 1 particular position.

Like Romerouk said, tune it then go back and tune it again, and keep tuning it until it is perfect.

Fine pitch threaded rods are a must for easy tuning IMO.

I hope this helps

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 09, 2011, 11:32:13 PM
Working principle in my mind is this:

When signal A is modulated with signal B one can load the signal B without loading the signal A or vice versa.

All it takes is low or high pass filer. I have done this with coil shorting setup - loading the system with zero reflection on input. In coil shorting A is low freq and B is high freq. And B is extracted using high pass filter w/o loading the signal A (input).

Now in this case signal A is signals from single coils (freq is 9*rpm), and signal B is interference picture from all the coils combined (freq is 1*rpm). There forms a rotating wavefront with same frequency as device rpm. So the A is high freq and B is low freq. Low pass filter is applied and signal is loaded w/o reflection on the signal A (input).

Low pass filter is that huge cap romerouk is using.

PS. F-finger to tech suppression "community" ;)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 09, 2011, 11:32:54 PM
They cannot be in series, as the gen coils are not all generating 1 polarity at the same time.   Wont work.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 09, 2011, 11:41:28 PM
Was thinking a little about the drive circuit. Don't know for sure, but this design may give a maximum theoretical output of 200%. I saw some suggestion to that effect in some of Muller's stuff, and that appears to be where RomeroUK is once losses are accounted for. In order to get the output power levels to meaningful levels then, the drive levels are going to have to be raised as the output load is increased. Probably only two good ways to do that: 1) increase drive voltage, and/or 2) increase drive pulse width.

This looks like a super candidate for a micro-controller, which might also simplify the drive pulse management. Rather than hall effect sensors and trigger magnets, it might make sense to move to an encoder and quadrature input. With sufficient encoder resolution, you could very accurately control drive pulses to increase power. Could also use the micro to control supply voltage, allowing the supply voltage to increase when you needed more output.

Yeah, that's raising the level of difficultly to a 9.9...but I am licking my chops to jump into that. :D

I developed this micro controller for my pulse motors and I am going to use it for this one too. 

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Ren on May 09, 2011, 11:47:44 PM
Good stuff guys.

Romero, love your work. Look forward to tinkering with a similar setup soon.

Forgive me if this has been asked before, but have you tried bridge rectifiers over your drive circuits, instead of the diode back to source?


Thanks for all your info.

Regards
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: LtBolo on May 09, 2011, 11:47:53 PM
I developed this micro controller for my pulse motors and I am going to use it for this one too.

PIC? That should do nicely.

By bringing the Hall effect sensor into a discrete input on the PIC, you can use it as a simple reference and synthesize the actual drive pulses anywhere you want to put them. That should give you a big advantage when tuning.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: joefr on May 10, 2011, 12:01:04 AM
Here are some calculators for litz wires:

http://www.elektrisola.com/litz-wire/technical-data/formulas.html (http://www.elektrisola.com/litz-wire/technical-data/formulas.html)

http://www.hmwire.com/calculations.html (http://www.hmwire.com/calculations.html)

http://www.litz-wire.com/wirediminsions.html (http://www.litz-wire.com/wirediminsions.html)


and coils:
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Coil-Physical-Properties-Calculator.phtml (http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Coil-Physical-Properties-Calculator.phtml)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 10, 2011, 12:10:49 AM
PIC? That should do nicely.

By bringing the Hall effect sensor into a discrete input on the PIC, you can use it as a simple reference and synthesize the actual drive pulses anywhere you want to put them. That should give you a big advantage when tuning.

if I can supply more info on this please email me. It works very well at fine tunning any pulse motor. I have a pdf description of it function. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 01:01:46 AM
Hi all,
i see that many questions are about the resistance of the coil.
I don't have the generator at home but as I remember I maeasured it few day ago it was arround 1.7-2 ohms.I have removed one of the pair coils and replaced with a larger one and that has improved the system.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: REDCAR1957 on May 10, 2011, 01:40:20 AM
I am about to get another rotor manufactured. as you know the cost is in the tooling so I pay for one is expensive.
so i can have more than one made. If any body is interested please say as I will just get them to do a few more. you will get them for the cost of what they cost me. and  postage.

this is for a rotor the dimensions are on the drawing

toranarod
how much are these rotors going to cost?
let me know when you find out
Kevin
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 10, 2011, 01:54:36 AM
Hi all,
i see that many questions are about the resistance of the coil.
I don't have the generator at home but as I remember I maeasured it few day ago it was arround 1.7-2 ohms.I have removed one of the pair coils and replaced with a larger one and that has improved the system.

I have removed one of the pair coils and replaced with a larger one and that has improved the system.

Very important statement as i have reiterated many times too many people getting hung up on precise replication of the coils when its the METHOD that is important not the replication.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 10, 2011, 01:56:47 AM
Hi all,
i see that many questions are about the resistance of the coil.
I don't have the generator at home but as I remember I maeasured it few day ago it was arround 1.7-2 ohms.I have removed one of the pair coils and replaced with a larger one and that has improved the system.

THANK YOU. Right here I stopped my replication direction and I am going to another direction. My current coil is 150mh and 156ohms while yours is 1.2mh and 2ohm. What a great difference.

Definitely the multi-strand coil reduces both values tremendously.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 10, 2011, 02:12:08 AM
toranarod
how much are these rotors going to cost?
let me know when you find out
Kevin

Each disk in perspex or Acrylic going to  set you back about 50 euro/pounds/dollars so for 3 piece construction going to be around 150 plus all the other hardware, electronics and magnets looking at about 250/300 to build something similar. I am sure Romero has spent thousands in getting to this point.

I cant build this yet i got too much other stuff on the go with HHO etc but when i get around to it i will use 1HP 3 phase motor in RV mode, and bolt the rotor assembly direct to motor flange using all coils as  generator coils. Then i got precision bearing and mount already in place.

BTW i already seen a looped RV using this type of muller construction about 4 years ago over private skype call. I watched it for a couple of hours while it was being tuned and powering a few hundred watts of bulbs. I mentioned it on here many times but 99% didn’t believe such thing could exist.  Im pleased this is finally out in the open as for me it is not  a shock or surprise to see this OU device as i sure it is for most people here.

Check out Konehead he has been making these style motors for years. He met up with Muller many times before he died and has a lot of construction hints that will come in useful.

Oh wouldn’t you just love to go back thru the forum now to all those that said none of this is possible and tell em to stick it where the sun don't shine!! LOL
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: My Do It Energy on May 10, 2011, 02:21:24 AM
keep going, please don’t stop, the price of gas is going up another 6 cents as of midnight, the reason ? None, as usually.

“I have removed one of the pair coils and replaced with a larger one and that has improved the system.”

Did you also substitute the 6mm core with a larger one?

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 10, 2011, 02:31:17 AM
Here are some calculators for litz wires:

http://www.elektrisola.com/litz-wire/technical-data/formulas.html (http://www.elektrisola.com/litz-wire/technical-data/formulas.html)

http://www.hmwire.com/calculations.html (http://www.hmwire.com/calculations.html)

http://www.litz-wire.com/wirediminsions.html (http://www.litz-wire.com/wirediminsions.html)


and coils:
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Coil-Physical-Properties-Calculator.phtml (http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Coil-Physical-Properties-Calculator.phtml)

This is excellent. Thank you. I am using it big time now.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 02:52:20 AM
keep going, please don’t stop, the price of gas is going up another 6 cents as of midnight, the reason ? None, as usually.

“I have removed one of the pair coils and replaced with a larger one and that has improved the system.”

Did you also substitute the 6mm core with a larger one?

Regards

Mike
replaced the core with 10mm but just for one set of coils.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: LtBolo on May 10, 2011, 02:57:16 AM
@Bolt

Do you or anybody else here have a sense of what the simple description of the actual OU operation is? RomeroUK's system doesn't appear to be resonant, so this apparently isn't a standing wave phenomenon. It appears that the mechanical input is about half of what the electrical output is. So the RV motor doesn't have to be OU in itself, just very efficient to drive the Muller configuration. But what in the Muller configuration is OU exactly?

The question is significant in that if we can understand where the conventional math is not correctly modeling reality, we can predictably design these things, rather than experimenting blindly. That will be required to scale this up to useful levels.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 10, 2011, 03:37:01 AM
@Bolt

Do you or anybody else here have a sense of what the simple description of the actual OU operation is? RomeroUK's system doesn't appear to be resonant, so this apparently isn't a standing wave phenomenon. It appears that the mechanical input is about half of what the electrical output is. So the RV motor doesn't have to be OU in itself, just very efficient to drive the Muller configuration. But what in the Muller configuration is OU exactly?

The question is significant in that if we can understand where the conventional math is not correctly modeling reality, we can predictably design these things, rather than experimenting blindly. That will be required to scale this up to useful levels.

Yes and the system is resonate but its not obvious at first.  The pulse motor drive section is only a means to push the rotor around that is all. No OU here just any efficient drive will work. Ask Romero to push around by hand it will start generating immediately even without the pulse coils running. This is why RV will drive this and no im not guessing this has been done for YEARS not just so much in public.

The 1.5 coils to magnet ratio just allows for anti clogging again there is no OU in this part either as wind-power people have known for years to build with odd number coils to prevent clogging.  But it helps as all the coils and magnets act as a collective event on the rotor. The OU all happens within the cores.  They are inductors which cause the current to lag in two pulse directions with zero point in the centre.  There is a moment where all the coils are sequential setting up momentary standing waves between the inductor coils L and the dump cap C. When the current is a max within the coil the voltage is zero at the dump cap. However the core itself undergoes transformation as it is biased into the non linear region due to the back end re-gauging magnets. This is the moment where when the voltage is zero the core becomes magnetoconstrictive and reverses entropy. The capacitor sees a real Joule Charge at this moment.

However this power can not be taken back to the source directly as it has not been powered factor corrected. This is the job of the DC converter is correcting the PF.  Without this is can not loop. The backend re-gauging  magnets and tuning to a specific load is critical. There is a sweet spot to tune for each load to correct the core B H bias. This is something magnacoaster see years ago but i doubt he found it for himself someone must have clued him up. This is why magnacoaster uses like 5 neo on one end and 1 the other to give a slightly different method as everything is stationary.  So you must use Asymmetric Bloch Wall Modulation to pulse the coil while the core is in the non linear region AND must be balanced offset over the Bloch wall.

So how does this help construction? Well understanding where the OU comes into play this is still RLC =OU where the inductor should "APPEAR" to be as large as possible using very high density permeability materials like metglass cores etc. You want the largest mHenries in the smallest area without resorting to thousands of turns of wire.

The coil winding should be as low ohms as possible as this increase the Q and allows more current to flow so practically bigger is better. Its important NOT to oversaturate the cores or you leave the non linear region of the BH curve you are no longer in OZ.:) The signal will fall into phase which creates watts = heat death. So don’t use 2 inch neos on a 1/4 inch cores!

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hhobrian on May 10, 2011, 04:22:38 AM
Great Work Romero!

IT WORKS!!!!! REPLICATION SUCCES!!!!!!!! :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNcZAZBC7cs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNcZAZBC7cs)

LOL, u got me.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 10, 2011, 05:02:39 AM
@Romero,

is this the spool you used for your coils?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sewing-Bobbins-Viking-Emerald-116-118-183-203-141000526-/200456301889?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eac206d41#ht_500wt_956

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powerunlimited on May 10, 2011, 07:12:44 AM
@Romerouk,your build is unusual,don't take this in a wrong way,the big cap could hide a battery or a series of batteries could you replace this with much smaller capacitors in parallel to eliminate this possibility and make another video.This issue will
come up if it hasn't already,thanks
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: keykhin on May 10, 2011, 07:40:10 AM
Hi there, this is my first post on this site and I want to suggest a better schematic for romerouk muller dynamo driving coils.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Tudi on May 10, 2011, 08:25:29 AM
Congrats for everyone and mostly RomeroUK for the amazing development of the generator.
At this point a bit sceptic( I know nobody needs sceptics ). As i read on muller generator site : A generator converts mechanical energy into electricity. Muller generator removed most of the energy conversion losses making it close to a 1:1 ratio. This is awesome as is. In case romerouk managed to get this up to a 1:0.99999999999.... ratio then the wheel storing the initial inertia would make it run for a very long duration. => The bigger your wheel, the better results you will get with or without capacitors/dead batteries/other components that can store energy.
In the videos seen on youtube, the lightbulb (energy consumer) is only used for a short duration. I tried to read at least half of all the posts, at some point as i understood the "generator" was able to run for 3-5 hours with the ligthbulb. What happened after that ?

The simple fact that the device slowed down then speeded up when DC/DC voltage was adjusted keeps me breathless. Crossing fingers there is some hidden mistery in this device nobody noticed until now.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Aedini on May 10, 2011, 08:44:39 AM
    The device structure is not complicated,
    And: RMR on the details have detailed instructions
    But: until now no one announced the successful replication.
    I very much hope that this is true miracle
====================================================================   
     However: it is indeed possible: in the DC-DC converters and large electrolytic capacitors inside the battery may be completely hidden.
 
    Very much like to be able to explain and clarify the evidence.
====================================================================
 I hope there is sufficient evidence that the RMR is the person I admire!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Overunityguide on May 10, 2011, 09:13:33 AM
This is exactly why I have asked the following question yesterday:

[ Is it possible to show some extra video footage where you switch the dc to dc converter gradually from 12V back to 4.5V and hereby showing the input voltage for the dc to dc converter (rectified output of the generator) for each single step?
I already know that you showed earlier that for the 12.05V out of the dc to dc converter the input was about 15 volts ]

Romerouk reaction to this was:

[ To all:
Don't ask me to do more videos, and measure every inch of it, this is taking all my time, instead of working and doing something productive. ]

My question for now is: what is the "something productive" he is talking about? He already managed to get a working OU setup right?!

So to come back to my earlier question:
If he is able to show that when he lowers the dc to dc converter output voltage will result in a lower input voltage into the dc to dc converter. (this in the closed loop configuration of course) Then he is able to show that this input voltage (as a result of lowering the rpm) is not always a steady 15 volts. (or read: that there is no hidden energy source)

Sorry for being rude, but I really hate it when people are giving false hope to others. And let them replicate their failures as a result of their own frustration. And spending time and money for nothing. So please answer my previous question and show that this is one is not another fake setup...

Kind Regards JdR.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 10, 2011, 09:43:43 AM
Hi overunityguide, you said,
Quote
So please answer my previous question and show that this is one is not another fake setup...
please think about your questions before you ask them.
Can anyone in this universe show or prove that something is not real.

For example, 'I did not wash the dishes'. It is impossible to prove that you didn't do something, such as wash the dishes.
 It is only possible to prove or show that the dishes were washed, just as it is only possible to show or prove that the romerouk's device works.
Nobody in this universe can ever prove something does not work as that is contradictory and self defeating from the start. 

In other words you ask a question that can never be answered.
A more fruitful question would be, how does it work.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 10, 2011, 09:44:15 AM
Hi there, this is my first post on this site and I want to suggest a better schematic for romerouk muller dynamo driving coils.

this is another variation this is better for complete isolation
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Overunityguide on May 10, 2011, 09:57:54 AM
Hi overunityguide, you said,please think about your questions before you ask them.
Can anyone in this universe show or prove that something is not real.

For example, 'I did not wash the dishes'. It is impossible to prove that you didn't do something, such as wash the dishes.
 It is only possible to prove or show that the dishes were washed, just as it is only possible to show or prove that the romerouk's device works.
Nobody in this universe can ever prove something does not work as that is contradictory and self defeating from the start. 

In other words you ask a question that can never be answered.
A more fruitful question would be, how does it work.
peace love light
tyson

That's true for sure, but Romerouk can answer my simple question and in this way show that it's not likely that he has used a hidden energy source. “Only trying to investigate before I replicate.”

Wishing everyone the best, JdR
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 09:59:49 AM
@powerunlimited
@Aedini
@Overunityguide

...and anyone else who might be even thinking about making the same requests...


ok, let's get this straight guys

Romero has done ALL he needs to do at this point (much more in fact)

he's shown other people in forums like this, who have some understanding of the possibilities and behaviour of the various parts of his device (ie. people who are reasonably 'skilled in the art'), just one example of how to use magnets, coils, rotation and inertia to convert ambient energy into useful work

the 'unusual' thing at the moment (because this is NEW, as far as conventional science is concerned) is that he has made an ELECTRICAL system which only needs 12 Watts to convert 24W from the environment - ie., it has a CoP of 2

BUT - in general, a system which uses X Watts to convert >X W from the environment is NOT NEW - heat pumps regularly operate with CoP > 3

so - the way ahead is NOT to have Romero spend all his time making more and more complicated videos - you see, lots of small capacitors on a video are not better than one big capacitor because there MIGHT be lots of small batteries in them, etc - there is always ONE more objection

no, HERE is the way that science has progressed: --> not just by making a believable video (although the videos that Romero has made ARE helpful to those who will follow on) - no, science progresses by OTHER people taking the necessary details and REPLICATING it for themselves

the inventor cannot 'believe' for somebody else - each person has to 'believe' for themselves

when enough people of integrity & understanding 'believe' THEN science can be expanded to include the new knowledge

from what i've seen from the evidence which Romero has shown about this device - and from the evidence of other things he has made - and the obvious love he has for doing this work - and for the fact that Bill Muller and several other people have ALL shown the same achievement and the same integrity - i BELIEVE that what we've been shown here is all true

and now it is the job of people who have the same approach as Romero to duplicate what he has done and tell the people - who are sitting on their @rses in ivory towers, telling everybody that this is NOT POSSIBLE - to stop wasting our money spending billions of dollars/pounds/euros etc, just to discover 'how many angels can dance on the tip of a needle'

THEY are getting paid for US to do THEIR work!


if you didn't bother trying to read & think about everything i just said above, then the short answer is:

Romero will NOT be making any more videos JUST TO DISPROVE A FAKE


if you can't be bothered - or don't have the skills or resources - to make a replication attempt, then you will just have to be patient and watch as many others repeat what Romero has done
(while you're waiting, why not read carefully through the earlier 576 posts, like most of the rest of us have done, and watch Romero's 3 'Muller Dynamo' videos to get at least some idea of his integrity, achievement and dedication - not to mention the personal pressures on his family and on him)


the 'writing is on the wall' for the 2nd so-called Law of Thermodynamics

and was it our fantastically clever and knowledgeable 'scientists' who discovered this for humanity and opened the door to a new era of energy independence?

no, it was a few members of the public working on their kitchen and garden tables

SHAME on the scientific community! 


...sorry, did someone mention something about Romero making some MORE videos?  ;)


have a nice day
np

[Edited - to add and clarify the rant a bit :)]
[2nd Edit to remove Tudi from the reply list, with apologies]


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 10, 2011, 10:32:04 AM
...

the inventor cannot 'believe' for somebody else - each person has to 'believe' for themselves

when enough people of integrity & understanding 'believe' THEN science can be expanded to include the new knowledge

...


I love what you have said! There is so much truth in it.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Brother22 on May 10, 2011, 11:33:15 AM
Another simple, but very well working hall-driver would be this one
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: totoalas on May 10, 2011, 12:05:42 PM
Another variant of bridge rectifier by Jonny   from  JT a

The efficient rectifier circuit spins the motor on less input to the slayer circuit than a bridge rectifier made from 4148 diodes but the single transistor rectifier will spin the motor on the least input to the slayer exciter.
 If you try the efficient rectifier circuit.Make sure you use two 4148 diodes and one 5408 diodes.I have uploaded the circuit diagrams to my previous post for easier reference.Cheers.Jonny


http://img135.imageshack.us/i/efficientrectifiercircu.jpg/
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 12:12:32 PM
I love what you have said! There is so much truth in it.

thanks lanenal

apologies for the rant, everyone

maybe we get back to our replication attempts now
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Tudi on May 10, 2011, 12:33:03 PM
@nul-points thanks for showing everyones opinion. I tried to NOT divert the discussion in the wrong way. That is why i tried to write in bold my point. I'm trying to extract this new theory you are talking about, the ambiant energy that is absorbed. I could not find any post about speculations in what form does this ambiant energy comes from ( i know every second topic is about vacum and null point energy, but there is no vacum here to create null-point energy). Ofc as this theory is intended to be new, i do not expect that most speculation would even be close to the real reason. Things need to start at some point.
I could use your same speach for the sake of the development of the theoretical part. This even misunderstood theoretical part might help people improve their practical devices at some point.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 12:49:43 PM
@toranarod . Hi there . I believe you are in the process of coil winding . You could help us all here . Can you tell us exactly what wire you are using [ off the shelf multistrand or roll your own ] .The most vital thing you can do is to weigh an empty bobbin  and a wound bobbin and thus tell us the weight of wire per coil . This will be important for people buying wire .
         Cheaper neo`S in the UK . I bought 22 of 20mm x 10 mm mags for about £42 . magnetsuk.com
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 10, 2011, 01:05:35 PM
I was asked this in an email today. I thought it was very interesting.
just an observation. 
 
Notice how close this technology is to the Adams and the Bedini technology. They should be paying equal attention to the dynamics of their transistor. They might find out that another transistor might not work as well – if at all.      Consider that a focused and serious inventor can make his machines work through the sheer power of his mind – and not know it. He can make his setup work, but nobody else can. That guy in Canada, Hutchenson, and Hendershot are good examples. If They are not in the room the equipment operated by someone else just doesn’t work. This is a problem that comes up now and then – and something to keep in mind.


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 10, 2011, 01:19:11 PM
( i know every second topic is about vacum and null point energy, but there is no vacum here to create null-point energy).

This is where you draw the wrong conclusion.
The vacuum is underlying everything and is present all the time.
Try reading about the "Casimir Effect" or more illustrative watch
Bearden's "Energy from the vacuum".
Just a suggestion.

@powerunlimited: You might wanna make yourself aware of the Terms and conditions of using this website.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5554.0

Quote
5.1 defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the rights of other users or any third parties;
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 01:21:04 PM
@nul-points thanks for showing everyones opinion. I tried to NOT divert the discussion in the wrong way. That is why i tried to write in bold my point. I'm trying to extract this new theory you are talking about, the ambiant energy that is absorbed. I could not find any post about speculations in what form does this ambiant energy comes from ( i know every second topic is about vacum and null point energy, but there is no vacum here to create null-point energy). Ofc as this theory is intended to be new, i do not expect that most speculation would even be close to the real reason. Things need to start at some point.
I could use your same speach for the sake of the development of the theoretical part. This even misunderstood theoretical part might help people improve their practical devices at some point.

hi Tudi

firstly, let me apologise for including your name in the reply list (i'll try to edit it out) - i misunderstood your final comment to mean that you hoped it could be shown that there was a 'hidden' trick which would explain the 'mistery'
(>>"Crossing fingers there is some hidden mistery in this device nobody noticed until now")

firstly let me say that it is not a 'theory' that the extra energy is coming from the ambient environment - if there is no energy being supplied by the operator to the system (which for 5 hours, there wasn't) then the only place for the energy to be coming from is the very substance of physical matter and the space (or 'vacuum') it occupies around the experiment

fact - not theory!

i'm using the word 'vacuum' here to mean the fundamental properties of the universe when you remove all the 'coarser' substance which we are currently capable of measuring - not 'vacuum' meaning 'extremely low pressure' in an evacuated container

when we're all talking about zero-point energy it's to the first of those two 'vacuums' that we're referring

you asked what happened after the self-run tests ran for 3 & 5 hours - Romero switched it off so that he could go to bed! (the device creates some noise and i guess he was being considerate to his family & neighbours)

Romero achieved better than 1:0.9999999 - he achieved better than 1:2 - he supplies 12W approx; it self runs, so it is obviously generating at least 12W - and he can also power 10-20W of load in addition

Bill Muller (and at least one other replicator) have achieved similar results

i agree that it is important to reduce the losses in the system so that the mechanical operation is as close to 100% as possible - this is just the starting point to go beyond that 'perceived' limit

i'm glad that you found the speed decrease/increase with adjustment of the converter voltage to be breathtaking - that was a defining moment for me too (as was the shock when he removed the battery and it just kept going!)

i will try to look out some 'new theory' for you - i agree it is important - but i hope you see that in the past it is 'theory' which has been used to convince us that what Romero has achieved is impossible

people have been actively discouraged from doing this sort of experiment in mainstream science because they lose credibility, research finance, even jobs

so - things have come to a 'poor pass' when the general public have to take matters into their own hand - and without theory - prove that some scientific thinking is badly wrong by doing the experiment in their back garden (without a Science Engineering Research Council grant - horrors!)

maybe the scientists will wake up & correct the theory now?

don't hold your breath ;)


good to meet you Tudi - i hope i'm forgiven?
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 10, 2011, 01:26:08 PM
@bolt: are you sure it would work without the pulses? I have my doubts, because what if the pulses caused by the hall sensors and therefore the manipulated polarity of the ferrite cores influence each one of the passing rotor magnets? Then the pulsing would be crucial to the system and it wouldn't be only the "driving" purpose. In that case a "replication" with a motor at the rotor axis instead of the driving coils wouldn't succeed.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 01:36:20 PM
@nul-points,if this problem and it is a big problem, of a hidden power
 source then its a 50/50 chance of doing a successfull replication.
If theres a hidden power source you will never replicate it.And I understand that
Romerouk has a life and may not want to make any  more video's,however he has the
skill level to pull off a fraud
easily,remember the mylow motor fraud and I'm weary of something like that so are a lot of people.
If you believe,without resolving the issue of a hidden power source your a fool.
Like people that believe Steve mark of the tpu fame can't lie there fools too.
Where is your working replication!!, fool, I bet theres none,arm chair mechanic. :o

hi powerunlimited

you've obviously spent a great deal of time studying the evidence of all that Bill Muller, Romero and other successful replicators of this effect have posted on the web over many years

you've carefully weighed the reasons for them spending so much time, effort and money in making these experiments and then sharing them with other like-minded members of the general public

i see that you've also earnestly inquired into my activities in the few short days since Romero showed us all what he's achieved - to make a considered conclusion such as this:

@nul-points

Where is your working replication!!, fool, I bet theres none,arm chair mechanic. :o

are you, by any chance,  a scientist?

ciao bella  ;)
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 10, 2011, 01:48:32 PM
To all those speculating that this device is a fraud without any evidence.

Now is not the time.

Wait and see some replications.

Romero might well become one of the most famous man in history, this is not the way to treat him.

Let's wait and see what happens, time will tell.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 10, 2011, 01:51:51 PM
@bolt: are you sure it would work without the pulses? I have my doubts, because what if the pulses caused by the hall sensors and therefore the manipulated polarity of the ferrite cores influence each one of the passing rotor magnets? Then the pulsing would be crucial to the system and it wouldn't be only the "driving" purpose. In that case a "replication" with a motor at the rotor axis instead of the driving coils wouldn't succeed.

The pulses are ONLY connected to the drive coils to provide rotation. They have nothing to do with the generator coils. This is not speculation but a fact as i know and have seen similar devices working years ago. I seen RV loop setups and RV's driving muller style generators generating HUNDREDS of watts OU. SO therefore any efficient method to provide rotation and convert ALL the coils to generator coils will work but please don't try a standard DC model motor they are only about 65% efficient.  For a powerful setup with say 2" hockey puck coils and neos producing 100 watts each coil for a 1kw system use 3 phase RV to drive it.  Also the rotor doesn’t have to be 100% lug free. Its actually beneficial to have very SLIGHT drag on each coil at full load as it means the system is tuned to the peak. So the rotor might take 30w to spin it but who cares when you are making in excess of a Kw.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 10, 2011, 01:53:26 PM
Right now I don't give a darn about theory. Too much BS and not enough building.   Romero has shown us a working machine.  He has been as straightforward as any builder I have run across in many years.  So I have only one more question.

Romero, define "Tuning"  in stages.  Are you first tuning for minimum drag on the wheel using the bias magnets and spacing between coils and magnets?  Then do you tune for maximum output, that is maximum peak to peak on the pulses from a core/coil combination, or is it constantly a combination of the two?  Do you tune first without the cap, watching speed of rotor, etc.  And or, do you tune for maximum voltage and current availability on the cap using the rectified DC into a load?  I assume you always have a load on the output wheel and or the individual single coils/magnet assemblies during this process.

Very shortly there will be many different version of this device running!  I  have built many pulse motors over the years and seen the exact
same waveform before rectification many times and never came up with them being OU, But my pulses were NOT offset  from each other
by the even/odd coil system (more Bedini like or variations)  and I did not use the external bias magnets or the ferrite core's.  This is the last question I will ask. Being a old time diddle stick twiddler, I know this can be difficult.

Please explain your description of Tuning if possible  in general terms from start to finish
.  Please!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 01:54:07 PM
To all sceptics and naysayers .This thread is for replicators . There is another thread for discussion of the Muller dynamo .Why not go there .If you disbelieve in this technology , just leave us alone .|You may feel that we are wasting time and money . It is ours to waste . There are worse hobbbies we could have , like beating up old ladies , or collecting child pornography .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 10, 2011, 02:04:18 PM
To all sceptics and naysayers .This thread is for replicators . There is another thread for discussion of the Muller dynamo .Why not go there .If you disbelieve in this technology , just leave us alone .|You may feel that we are wasting time and money . It is ours to waste . There are worse hobbbies we could have , like beating up old ladies , or collecting child pornography .

Here is a link to the other thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10700.msg284734#msg284734
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 02:16:17 PM
Romero, define "Tuning"  in stages.
[...]
Please explain your description of Tuning if possible  in general terms from start to finish.  Please!

Ben K4ZEP

hi Ben

we've scavenged this whole thread for Romero's build tips and they're collected in a few separate pages at our blog, if that's any help

the section on testing is at:
   http://mullerlite.blogspot.com/p/romerouk-testing-tips.html (http://mullerlite.blogspot.com/p/romerouk-testing-tips.html)

apologies that they're just raw quotes at the moment - may be a bit of overlap in some of his statements

hope this helps!
np
(armchair mechanic)  ;)


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: totoalas on May 10, 2011, 02:20:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/FreeEnergyLT
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: baroutologos on May 10, 2011, 02:47:08 PM
At this point we need working replicators and replicas to pop-up. No theories, not improvements, not suggestions.

If you are short of skill or resources, its ok. There is a number of skilled people involved that with Romero's guidance will get to the goal.

If you are like me, and have the experimenting virus and like tinkering by all means do proceed. But please, build per specs, see, tune, play, live with it, and the theorize or express oppinion.

...
Regarding the noone has done this before.. I will partially agree, to the fact that there is not a widely available (at least) of any OU device around. That's a fact.
On the other hand, how have you imagined any working OU device to be released in a site like this? If you think it cannot be, then anyone should go play elsewhere. No bad feelings.

I know Romero some time now, and although we had our differences in the OU approach, he is always positive and enthusiastic whereas me for example i am his "dark" counter-part in this field as hopeless skeptic, but experimenter also. Furthermore I can testify that he is very decent, good intentioned and never wanted to fool anyone.

I believe him, and i am replicating his device!
In the bottom line if he was anyone else, he would not make this public for you to speak today, and leave you just wondering after endless and pointless theories and discussions.

A plea to zealot critics. Please, restrain yourselves.

ps: Please, keep this thread focused as much as possible. Not need everyone of the thousand viewers to drop by to say a hello or their opinion.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
@powerunlimited .This technology came on the web one week ago . No replications ? So to please you someone has to replicate this in a WEEK? We are told that he tuning process takes a month . If I had known you were so impatient , and I would have made one the same day .And after tea , a couple of Rossi`s cold fusion reactors . Be reasonable / Please pop back again around Christmas and take a look .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 03:05:45 PM
I have received some parts for the new build.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 03:06:34 PM
@Baroutologos
that was bad ideea....
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: baroutologos on May 10, 2011, 03:10:04 PM
You have right. Error corrected. I hope..
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powerunlimited on May 10, 2011, 03:17:00 PM
@neptune,sounds reasonable, ok,time will tell if its real or fake.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 10, 2011, 03:39:38 PM
hi Ben

we've scavenged this whole thread for Romero's build tips and they're collected in a few separate pages at our blog, if that's any help

the section on testing is at:
   http://mullerlite.blogspot.com/p/romerouk-testing-tips.html (http://mullerlite.blogspot.com/p/romerouk-testing-tips.html)

apologies that they're just raw quotes at the moment - may be a bit of overlap in some of his statements

hope this helps!
np
(armchair mechanic)  ;)


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

Thanks a lot NP,

That is pretty close to what I imagine  the process will be.  I was hoping just for a bit more from the horses mouth, but I think
that is pretty good.  If my build does not go OU, I will still have fun!!!!!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 03:44:39 PM
@ nul-points,so are you romerouk playing games as happens in here,
you seem to act like you speak for him or are him
[...]

{{ the 'Force' is weak in this one, Luke, he is easily fooled }} :)

Romero has asked for other members on the forum to help field the interest in the current device, to give him some space to continue with his ongoing experiments


Quote
[...]
There are no working replications of any alleged over unity devices
[...]

really?  you must have missed this one then...
   http://home.mchsi.com/~actt2/index.html (http://home.mchsi.com/~actt2/index.html)


Quote
[...]
From time to time I investigate other devices
[...]

well - be sure to keep us informed with what you find, eh?
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 03:48:00 PM
Thanks a lot NP,
[...]
I was hoping just for a bit more from the horses mouth, but I think
that is pretty good
[...]
Ben K4ZEP

very welcome

...you don't get any closer to the horses mouth than quotes of Romero's own words   ;)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: msurg on May 10, 2011, 04:17:07 PM
Magnets arriving tomorrow, raided computer psu`s for ferrites, litz wire should be here in a week or so, have the rest of the components bar the stator/rotor which is due to be watercut next week (once i figure out the stator template), have lab gear for testing so ill post results if wanted :), really looking forward to this build, just going to take my time and learn, thanks romeroUK.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: abdlquadri on May 10, 2011, 04:24:50 PM
I thought by now someone should have banned @powerunlimited . He is definitely with the Oil companies. He has said enough to show that he is biased.

People are asking questions that have been answered in the pdf in the download section. I hope the pdf will be updated

Also you replicators should try to stick to what @romerouk did exactly - people change specs and claim it is not working. There are many ideas to experiment later - john bedini and adams motor (these three look very much alike)

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 10, 2011, 04:27:46 PM
I have received some parts for the new build.
What are those black items?
Are these magnets for the stator or rotor, or both?

Thanks
Looking forward to your new build.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 04:44:35 PM
@Romerouk,your build is unusual,don't take this in a wrong way,the big cap could hide a battery or a series of batteries could you replace this with much smaller capacitors in parallel to eliminate this possibility and make another video.This issue will
come up if it hasn't already,thanks
I will do one more video without the big capacitor, I will change it with smaller ones in or even one small .I need to check to see what is the minimum I can have and still have it working ok.
I have no access to the generator today, I dont have it at home but I will try for tomorow.
I will try to open the  dc/dc converter and leave it without the plastic case.
There are invisible batteries invented but only I have access to them :)
I hope this will end after that.
I think that its much easier to consider it fake than trying to do one yourself.
I am not addressing this to you but to all who thinks like that.
People having low financial resources should wait for others to replicate then decide if it is worth doing it or not.It is not cheap to build it, the new build will cost me more than £1000. Only the coils is going to cost £30 each, custom made with self-bonding wire.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 10, 2011, 04:51:38 PM
I just finished making my rotor.  I easily made it using smooth-on products.  I have been using their stuff for years in my projects.  You all may want to check them out.  I have nothing to do with the company so this is not spam.

http://www.smooth-on.com/

Here is a video showing the process:  http://www.smooth-on.com/video_play.php?video_id=iu7vpoIolJ8&autoplay=1
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 05:00:49 PM
@nul-points
[...]
I'm trying to extract this new theory you are talking about, the ambiant energy that is absorbed. I could not find any post about speculations in what form does this ambiant energy comes from ( i know every second topic is about vacum and null point energy, but there is no vacum here to create null-point energy). Ofc as this theory is intended to be new, i do not expect that most speculation would even be close to the real reason. Things need to start at some point.
[...]

hi again Tudi

since you were asking about theory here, i'm attaching something i promised you earlier- its by a physicist named Leon Dragone (now sadly deceased)

i'm not saying that it is directly explaining what we are seeing here, but it is dealing with a re-evaluation of the interaction between coils and magnets, particularly the cooling effect he observed in his motor components which he attributed to energy being supplied to the device from the environment

in the paper, Dragone was trying to persuade his academic colleagues to investigate his own results further

i suspect that his penultimate paragraph was the end of any discussion, as far as the other academics was concerned:

"The "black box" device was my attempt to do away
with the moving armature of the motor, as I
mentioned, this device had an over unity efficiency for
the two tests I performed."


i apologise for the manual typescript in the PDF - there are newer transcriptions available on the net now - but this one appears to contain Dragone's own typing & diagram sketches (and hopefully is a small enough file to upload here)

perhaps you'd like to share any comments about it with us here, after you've read it?

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powerunlimited on May 10, 2011, 05:02:10 PM
@Romerouk,thanks it will settle this.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 10, 2011, 05:09:26 PM
[...]
There are invisible batteries invented but only I have access to them :)
[...]

glad you mentioned them, Romero...

could you give us an eBay link for them, please

we're obviously going to need some for our own replications!  ;)

hang in there, man
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 10, 2011, 05:37:55 PM
@powerunlimited
@Aedini
@Overunityguide

...and anyone else who might be even thinking about making the same requests...


ok, let's get this straight guys

Romero has done ALL he needs to do at this point (much more in fact)

he's shown other people in forums like this, who have some understanding of the possibilities and behaviour of the various parts of his device (ie. people who are reasonably 'skilled in the art'), just one example of how to use magnets, coils, rotation and inertia to convert ambient energy into useful work

the 'unusual' thing at the moment (because this is NEW, as far as conventional science is concerned) is that he has made an ELECTRICAL system which only needs 12 Watts to convert 24W from the environment - ie., it has a CoP of 2

BUT - in general, a system which uses X Watts to convert >X W from the environment is NOT NEW - heat pumps regularly operate with CoP > 3

so - the way ahead is NOT to have Romero spend all his time making more and more complicated videos - you see, lots of small capacitors on a video are not better than one big capacitor because there MIGHT be lots of small batteries in them, etc - there is always ONE more objection

no, HERE is the way that science has progressed: --> not just by making a believable video (although the videos that Romero has made ARE helpful to those who will follow on) - no, science progresses by OTHER people taking the necessary details and REPLICATING it for themselves

the inventor cannot 'believe' for somebody else - each person has to 'believe' for themselves

when enough people of integrity & understanding 'believe' THEN science can be expanded to include the new knowledge

from what i've seen from the evidence which Romero has shown about this device - and from the evidence of other things he has made - and the obvious love he has for doing this work - and for the fact that Bill Muller and several other people have ALL shown the same achievement and the same integrity - i BELIEVE that what we've been shown here is all true

and now it is the job of people who have the same approach as Romero to duplicate what he has done and tell the people - who are sitting on their @rses in ivory towers, telling everybody that this is NOT POSSIBLE - to stop wasting our money spending billions of dollars/pounds/euros etc, just to discover 'how many angels can dance on the tip of a needle'

THEY are getting paid for US to do THEIR work!


if you didn't bother trying to read & think about everything i just said above, then the short answer is:

Romero will NOT be making any more videos JUST TO DISPROVE A FAKE


if you can't be bothered - or don't have the skills or resources - to make a replication attempt, then you will just have to be patient and watch as many others repeat what Romero has done
(while you're waiting, why not read carefully through the earlier 576 posts, like most of the rest of us have done, and watch Romero's 3 'Muller Dynamo' videos to get at least some idea of his integrity, achievement and dedication - not to mention the personal pressures on his family and on him)


the 'writing is on the wall' for the 2nd so-called Law of Thermodynamics

and was it our fantastically clever and knowledgeable 'scientists' who discovered this for humanity and opened the door to a new era of energy independence?

no, it was a few members of the public working on their kitchen and garden tables

SHAME on the scientific community! 


...sorry, did someone mention something about Romero making some MORE videos?  ;)


have a nice day
np

[Edited - to add and clarify the rant a bit :)]
[2nd Edit to remove Tudi from the reply list, with apologies]


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
nul-points,  I haven't read past your post at the moment but I TOTALLY AGREE 100% !!!!!!!!!!!!  It seems this has brought a lot of low post count and newbies out of the woodwork.  I won't speculate on their motives but only ask them to allow the serious research to continue without diverting Romerouk and others by tons of requests that are irrelevant to people here doing real work. 

   And everything you said was well worth quoting here so it can be seen by any people just jumping in the end of this thread. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 10, 2011, 05:56:59 PM
No like rain cats and dogs there is coming differnent OUs   :o
Look at Hoppy´s TPU Replication  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10710.msg285458#new   :o

But OK, when Romero´s - Muller dynamo really works, then why to use rotor with magnets at all  ???

Just take two ferros core coils, set it up exact like one Romero´s unit with two coils and instead of moving magnet just use third ferros coil between these two coils - but this third is pulse driven,

NS->COIL->pulse-driven-coil->COIL->SN

Yes, this is very similar to well known units from other threads, but you must have all the same air gaps like Romero and top and bottom magnets - you must replicate all this like opened magnetic circuit, like Romero did.
Benefit of this experiment is you do not need so much different part. At that you will get solid state OU (if at all)
If it works - then you can be sure that Romero´s device works as well,
If it does not work - then ...  >:(  ... oh dear  8)

Why I do not try myself?
Because I have tried looooong time ago - no way  ;)
I just looked Romero´s video and wonder why he is holding hes machine by hand, why not just by string or something like that?
What is behind holding hand, we do not see. Why there are so much wires? Like always - lot of wires, shabby imaging, failure cameraman ...
Was no time to make order, to short all wires for correct length? .... Come on, guys  ;)
He did what he did --- few days like shooting star, but now is coming a thinking time, to think about results and ... about reputation  :(
But anyway I wish good success,
cheers,
herbert
cheer
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 10, 2011, 06:01:02 PM
I just finished making my rotor.  I easily made it using smooth-on products.  I have been using their stuff for years in my projects.  You all may want to check them out.  I have nothing to do with the company so this is not spam.

http://www.smooth-on.com/

Here is a video showing the process:  http://www.smooth-on.com/video_play.php?video_id=iu7vpoIolJ8&autoplay=1
Interesting product.  Can you say about how much it cost to make the rotor for example?  Once it is dry does it tend to have a surface prone to static electricity like acrylic?  I'm still thinking the acrylic and similar plastics may play a role in how this works. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 10, 2011, 06:03:56 PM
I tore apart 2 monitors last night looking for parts.  One actually appears to have Litz wire in the deflector coil but I'm not sure I can get it off without damage. 

Has anyone found a good U.S. source or maybe even China source for the size Litz wire Romero is using?  My experience ordering from U.K. is it takes longer than even China and is much more expensive than anywhere (especially with the dollar low now vs. Euro).

Actually had quite a score yesterday - 2 monitors, one computer and a microwave oven for free :)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 10, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
Ah, about collecting parts, I also need quite a lot to buy, thats why I'm still hesitating for construction. Regarding the Litz wire, I will use this method posted http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284800#msg284800 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284800#msg284800) because I got 2 kilometers 0.15mm insulated copper wire at home which I could combine to a 7-stranded wire.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 10, 2011, 06:14:46 PM
@ e2matrix

I used about $7.00 worth of Smooth-Cast 300.  Time well tell how well it works for this application.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 10, 2011, 06:18:57 PM
Quote
Has anyone found a good U.S. source or maybe even China source for the size Litz wire Romero is using?  My experience ordering from U.K. is it takes longer than even China and is much more expensive than anywhere (especially with the dollar low now vs. Euro).


I have ordered some from here:  http://www.surplussales.com/wire-cable/LitzWire.html  I was going to wait and see what it looked like in person before I posted anything about it.  I spent $30.00 for two pounds.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 06:34:14 PM
Why is nobody thinking I have drilled the metal rods and filled them up with batteries?That will do I think... :)
I made a mistake in doing the last video. I should I left it on the floor first, do a video to my hands, then lift it up.
I was about to do it hanging with a cotton string but people suggested already that I can have wires going along with the string,.... this never ends, same like in the SM TPU, must be some batteries there, how can we get that power otherwise.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 10, 2011, 06:44:36 PM

I have ordered some from here:  http://www.surplussales.com/wire-cable/LitzWire.html  I was going to wait and see what it looked like in person before I posted anything about it.  I spent $30.00 for two pounds.
Thanks lasersaber!  on both items.  I had not been aware of the smooth-on products.  Looks like it could be really useful for a number of projects but I think I'll wait to hear how yours goes with this.  I know you are one of the really good builders and I have confidence you can get this replicated with OU assuming the acrylic is not part of the OU formula.  Best of luck!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 06:44:44 PM
@Khabe . I am sure that you are sincere about the experiment you describe but in my opinion it is not the same . Look at earlier magnetic simulations in this thread and notice how the flux moves in the coil cores . I do not think you could duplicate that with a stationary electromagnet as you describe .
      Regarding the video . Why did he hold it in his hand and not suspend it on two strings ? Precisely because as has been pointed out by another sceptic , the two strings could be wires disguised as strings .So unless he has mastered levitation as well as overunity , it is pointless to suspend it at all . However many videos are made , someone will always object to something . I would respectfully ask that you either replicate it or wait until someone else does .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 10, 2011, 06:51:43 PM
I have received some parts for the new build.

@Romero,

Thats great man. I ordered many things too. Magnets, wires, rods, ferrites, bearings and so on. Dying to have them here.

Now, in your opnion Romero, do you think that coils at high resitance as 150+ohm and 150+mH would not work? have you tried it?

The reason I ask is because readily available small coils are very cheap, precision made and small. For example relays from RadioShack in US.

Your input would be highly appreciated since all I am doing is trying to replicate your work.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 10, 2011, 06:52:21 PM
Why is nobody thinking I have drilled the metal rods and filled them up with batteries?That will do I think... :)
I made a mistake in doing the last video. I should I left it on the floor first, do a video to my hands, then lift it up.
I was about to do it hanging with a cotton string but people suggested already that I can have wires going along with the string,.... this never ends, same like in the SM TPU, must be some batteries there, how can we get that power otherwise.
Best to just ignore people like that at this point.  At least don't waste a lot of time on trying to prove anything to them.  A long time ago I came to the conclusion there are two types of people in this world: the believers and the skeptics.  It's almost impossible to convince a skeptic to be a believer.  So when I know I have something good to share I try to find out first which type I'm talking to and won't waste time on skeptics.  With as many of the top builders that I've seen in this thread I'm sure there will be successful replications within a month or so.  So don't sweat the skeptics and trolls.  Anyone with a clue about human nature can see you are an honest builder with only good intentions and real OU. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 10, 2011, 06:53:46 PM
No like rain cats and dogs there is coming differnent OUs   :o
Look at Hoppy´s TPU Replication  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10710.msg285458#new   :o

But OK, when Romero´s - Muller dynamo really works, then why to use rotor with magnets at all  ???

Just take two ferros core coils, set it up exact like one Romero´s unit with two coils and instead of moving magnet just use third ferros coil between these two coils - but this third is pulse driven,

NS->COIL->pulse-driven-coil->COIL->SN

Yes, this is very similar to well known units from other threads, but you must have all the same air gaps like Romero and top and bottom magnets - you must replicate all this like opened magnetic circuit, like Romero did.
Benefit of this experiment is you do not need so much different part. At that you will get solid state OU (if at all)
If it works - then you can be sure that Romero´s device works as well,
If it does not work - then ...  >:(  ... oh dear  8)

Why I do not try myself?
Because I have tried looooong time ago - no way  ;)
I just looked Romero´s video and wonder why he is holding hes machine by hand, why not just by string or something like that?
What is behind holding hand, we do not see. Why there are so much wires? Like always - lot of wires, shabby imaging, failure cameraman ...
Was no time to make order, to short all wires for correct length? .... Come on, guys  ;)
He did what he did --- few days like shooting star, but now is coming a thinking time, to think about results and ... about reputation  :(
But anyway I wish good success,
cheers,
herbert
cheer

Actually, there is quite a difference between your solid state version vs Romeros.
There are changing angles involved in Romeros setup, yours not, it is stationary.
Seems most dont get that the field lines need to pass through the windings to produce current, not just the core.

Think, how could a wire come in contact with the field if its all in the core. It cant. The wire does not have feelers around it to come in contact with the field in the core. Same as a transformer. An E core transformer has lines of force expanding from the center core and cut the other windings on the way to the outer part of the core.
Read he pdf attached.

I have seen a solid state version that seems it may imitate Romeros function. It had 2 driver coils off center to the pickup coil. I believe the driver coils alternated the fields produced on each side of the pickup.
This will enable the field lines to pass through the windings much better than an inline driver.

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 10, 2011, 06:55:28 PM
@ e2matrix

I will try arcylic as well if this first rotor fails to work.  I do not give up easly on anything.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 10, 2011, 07:01:49 PM
@ e2matrix

I will try arcylic as well if this first rotor fails to work.  I do not give up easly on anything.

@lasersaber
Tab Plastics sell several 5" to 14" ready made circular plates that can be used for stators and rotors for this replication. Check them out. It's less than $10.

Oh, here's the link:
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=140&


cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 10, 2011, 07:02:41 PM
Best to just ignore people like that at this point.  At least don't waste a lot of time on trying to prove anything to them.  A long time ago I came to the conclusion there are two types of people in this world: the believers and the sceptics.  It's almost impossible to convince a sceptic to be a believer.  So when I know I have something good to share I try to find out first which type I'm talking to and won't waste time on skeptics.  With as many of the top builders that I've seen in this thread I'm sure there will be successful replications within a month or so.  So don't sweat the skeptics and trolls.  Anyone with a clue about human nature can see you are an honest builder with only good intentions and real OU.

I agree.  Dont worry about nay sayers. You know what you have. Their bickering will end when replications come about. Just concentrate on that. Thats all that matters.

Even if there are 50 good replications, the bad words will still come. So what. lol  Let them stick with $5 a gallon gas.  At $10, they will be on their knees next to their Ford Excursions, in tears.  ;]

Your doing fine Romero.  Its hard to ignore. But it is the best policy.

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 10, 2011, 07:26:46 PM
Romero if you are still around just one question on what you used for spools or bobbins to wind your coils.  Were they sewing type bobbins?  I see some on ebay with these sizes: SIZE:    3/4 inches (20.5 mm) wide & 7/16 inches (11.5 mm) thick and  1/4 inches (6.4 mm) hole diameter.  Sound close? 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 10, 2011, 08:30:07 PM
I thought by now someone should have banned @powerunlimited . He is definitely with the Oil companies. He has said enough to show that he is biased.



I have set him on moderated now and all the professional skeptics will also be set on moderated.
They can go to a different skeptics forum, if they wish so...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: romerouk on May 10, 2011, 08:45:39 PM
T H I S  W A S   A   B I G    F A K E,      S T O P  R E P L I C A T I N G
THIS IS MY LAST POST
World will be the same

SORRY!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 10, 2011, 08:49:19 PM
sucks

I don't believe it, otherwise you wouldn't buy components for a new build.
Don't stop replicating yet.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 10, 2011, 08:51:26 PM
WOT?? Has someone hacked your account? OR have you had a bang on the door and a warning? WTF!!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 10, 2011, 08:52:47 PM
His videos are now off youtube.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 10, 2011, 08:53:58 PM
Youtube account gone too.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 10, 2011, 09:00:22 PM
Youtube account gone too.

Bummer! Maybe someone forced his hand? I hope he comes back.

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mscoffman on May 10, 2011, 09:03:39 PM

One way this could work is by generating and capturing excess
static electricity. (It wouldn't be the first motor to work this way BTW).
If this true, then a precise replication including the circuit should
yield nearly similar results. This precision is necessary because
the static electric capture and drive mechanism, in this case, is
heuristic. With a number of overunity devices coming up - skeptics
should at least begin practicing a little disembling and groveling while
saying: "I didn't know you could do that".  :D  History won't be repeating
itself any time soon.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Cherryman on May 10, 2011, 09:05:01 PM
............  History won't be repeating
itself any time soon.

:S:MarkSCoffman

It just did.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 10, 2011, 09:09:49 PM
Anyone that got copies of his stuff on youtube make sure it is copied to other servers NOW! Youtube may pull all accounts hosting his vids we need this backed up everywhere. Something VERY serious has happened.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hacko on May 10, 2011, 09:12:54 PM
His videos are now off youtube.
This is in some case is good, that means that this device is overunity. I think in this forum there are some "agents" that read and wait to see some overunity and after that you see what happen.
If anyone have downloaded some of the youtube videos will be good to share.
/Sorry about my English/
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 10, 2011, 09:13:18 PM
Hey Guys,

Is Romero being sincere with this admission, or is he just tired of all the questions and ridicule?  :-\

I hope it is the latter, and his device really is authentic. It can't be easy being in his situation, and it appears he was trying his best to accommodate all the questions...much better than others I know of.

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: duff on May 10, 2011, 09:15:47 PM
His forum is gone also.

http://underservice.org/index.php (http://underservice.org/index.php)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Rosphere on May 10, 2011, 09:23:14 PM
I bet he finally got an offer worth turning his back on everyone.  At least it was a swift end, without first having to drag us to the inventors grave site to cry, or ride in his ambulance overcome by fumes.  Thank you, romerouk.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 10, 2011, 09:24:10 PM
+1 to visit by agents.
It doesn't make sense that someone sais "Sorry" when he intended to fool people. Thus loosing a hobby and a forum credibility  that he seemed to do with lots of enjoyment and passion. It does not add up.

Romero, i understand your move, you gave in to intimidation, because you care about the safety of you and your family.
They will also try to defame him here in this thread to discredit his work and try to discourage replicators with destructive posts. Their MO is always the same.
To all other replicators , keep replicating, obfuscate your identities/locations and spread/mirror the documentation. Don't give up.


V
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 10, 2011, 09:27:44 PM
Looks like he's online on yahoo IM:
http://webmessenger.yahoo.com/?im=rfisca
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 10, 2011, 09:28:52 PM
Kac
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: dutchy1966 on May 10, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
Stefan's backup copies of his video's are still online..... guess no MIB intervention....

Dutchy
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Rosphere on May 10, 2011, 09:33:30 PM
Looks like he's online on yahoo IM:
http://webmessenger.yahoo.com/?im=rfisca

Oh, quick, let's all mob him over there now!

400 emails in one day, you should all be ashamed.

Guess what, he will not be around to assist replicators with tuning.

Nice work everyone. (/sarcasm)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 10, 2011, 09:50:24 PM
Well,
I think it all got over his head..
I still think from all the communications we had with him
and his history of other youtube projects
with the coil shortening success, etc,
that it was real and no fake.

He might have just fallen for an offer he received.

He told me 2 days ago, that he had at least 2 serious offers
worth of millions of US$...and also that he has his wife on his back and
that she did not want him to release it all for free...

So he probably pulled the plug and
removed his youtube channel now when he accepted an offer from
one of the companies...

Now I am glad he gave me the permission to copy his videos
to my youtube channeel:

http://www.youtube.com/overunitydotcom#g/u

There they still are there.

So I would advise to the members who already ordered the parts to
keep at it and try to replicate it and post as much infos as you can including
videos and scope shots.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 10, 2011, 09:52:53 PM
Well,
I think it all got over his head..
I still think from all the communications we had with him
and his history of other youtube projects
with teh coil shortening success, etc,
that it was realk and no fake.

He might have just fallen for an offer he received.

He told me 2 days ago, that he had at least 2 serious offers
worth of millions US$...and also that he has his wife on his back and
that she did not want him to release it all for free...

So he probably pulled the plug and
removed his youtube channel now.

Now I am glad he gave me the permission to copy his videos
to my youtube channeel:

http://www.youtube.com/overunitydotcom#g/u

There they still are there.

So I would advise to the members who already ordered the parts to
keep at it and try to replicate it and post as much infos as you can including
videos and scope shots.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

Thanks Stefan. I'll download and backup the videos for my own future replication. Many thanks. I hope he comes back.

chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 09:53:54 PM
I could see this coming a mile away . Just surprised that it happened so soon .If this is real , and personally I believe it is , the truth will out . Replication will continue here , and elsewhere I do not doubt . Is it too much to hope the naysayers will now leave us alone
     @Stefan , last time I addressed you personally , we had a polite disagreement over a technical matter . This time , I agree with you 100% . What guy , no matter what his priciples can afford to refuse millions of dollars . And even if he could , once his wife knows , its a done deal .Do not misunderstand me here . I have always had a high opinion of Romerouk , and that has not changed . The cat is alredy out of the bag,
so hopefully it will still be available to everyone , and Romero will get his money as well . Many of us are too financially commited to stop work on it now . Here`s to the Future .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Rosphere on May 10, 2011, 10:07:36 PM
This reminds me of the destroyer from Atlas Shrugged.  Romerouk is off to Galt's Gulch and we shall speak with him no more.

I just wished that he would have hung around long enough for the tuning of replications.  Prepare for a parade of numerous un-tuned devices not working and I hope to be wrong about this point.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: poynt99 on May 10, 2011, 10:07:55 PM
Yes he may indeed have received and accepted a good offer.

Which raises a question; if Romero's device was real, and he accepted a very lucrative offer, what happens if someone else achieves the same success with the device?

.99
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 10, 2011, 10:13:50 PM
I have a good handle on what he did so if it is working machine I will find out when I replicate and research the device.

like the rest of you we want it to be real and its a cover up.
we know from years in this business lots of inventions are made to dissipater sometimes with the inventor to.
lets just hope no harm comes to him. hoax or not. what ever happened Romeouk put your family first and be safe.
I understand how hard it is this work building device after device and no results. then it all blows up in your face.   

I am even more fired up now to continue the work.   

I will post my results here in this thread. I love this industry don't you?
who is going to keep working on this?   
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 10:19:30 PM
@taranarod . Did you get around to weighing the wire on one coil please
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 10, 2011, 10:40:22 PM
@poynt 99. Remember that this device is not patented . Nor can it be . So name your own price? LOL
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 10, 2011, 10:41:28 PM
Well here we go again.  I have all my stuff on order. I need to get my plastic working skills up again anyway and I like to build pulse motors.
I like to make them a work of art, so what the heck.  It's all in fun!

If he got a lotta bucks, more power to him.  IF he finally just got tired of the BS, repeating questions from folk who didn't watch his orginal videos, well so be it. 

This is my hobby, I do this for fun but I sure wish he had posted a basic step by step of the tuning method.......but who knows.  If it was real, there are a dozen or so of us that will build it and maybe one or two of us will make it work.  If not............I got this slab of crow, I prefer it fried, blackened and with a light dusting of acrylic.

I remain eternally optimistic,

Ben K4ZEP   8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: LtBolo on May 10, 2011, 10:42:51 PM
Which raises a question; if Romero's device was real, and he accepted a very lucrative offer, what happens if someone else achieves the same success with the device?

The cracks are forming in the wall. The flood is coming. The money will eventually be in building, selling, and supporting the products...not in owning the intellectual property.

Xerox did pretty well on copiers, but ironically, today companies virtually give away the printer/copier/fax and make money on the consumables. Once the world realizes that there "is no spoon", there will be a rush to build power products in 100s of forms. The intellectual property will be worthless.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 10, 2011, 10:50:06 PM
Was he speaking with someone who wanted verification on his device,
before they gave him an amount of money ?  he did say recently that he didn't have the device at home.

I will do one more video without the big capacitor, I will change it with smaller ones in or even one small .I need to check to see what is the minimum I can have and still have it working ok.
I have no access to the generator today, I dont have it at home but I will try for tomorow.
I will try to open the  dc/dc converter and leave it without the plastic case.
There are invisible batteries invented but only I have access to them :)
I hope this will end after that.
I think that its much easier to consider it fake than trying to do one yourself.
I am not addressing this to you but to all who thinks like that.
People having low financial resources should wait for others to replicate then decide if it is worth doing it or not.It is not cheap to build it, the new build will cost me more than £1000. Only the coils is going to cost £30 each, custom made with self-bonding wire.

The replications will prove this either way.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: TheCell on May 10, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
Hello,
which device do you use for winding your coils?
Has anyone bought this one :
http://perfectgoodhelper.com/goods.php?id=1074

I have bought I-cores , the type used like in transformers and planed to build a adams motor with the following design :
http://motoradams.blogspot.com/
1,76 Watts in / 3,44 Watts out. Or maybe this Muller Design in a smaller scale.



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: tinu on May 10, 2011, 11:00:43 PM
It was fake all along but I did not want to spoil your excitement. Few would have heard me anyway.
 
Look again at the first “OU video” (lol!) and by the end of it ask yourself why is the power led (DC-DC converter) still on after he turns the switch off. Huh?!
Moreover, why is the same led flashing in sync with the RPM of the rotor when it should be disconnected from stator coils?!!!
Or to put it simpler…What does he switches off then if not the DC converter?!!!
Hint: the other power source? 15V, 1-2A, 2 thin wires… Go figure!

I know, I’m MIB, oil-man, skeptic and a few dozen more…

Before leaving, greetings to the old friends still remembering me. 
See you on the next one, folks!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: tysb3 on May 10, 2011, 11:32:49 PM
sucks

I don't believe it, otherwise you wouldn't buy components for a new build.
Don't stop replicating yet.

THAT'S THE POINT !!!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 10, 2011, 11:53:38 PM
re: naysayers will now leave us alone  >:(
Come on, guys, this is open discussion, forum for wide area of people, not only for fervent believers, hysterics, naives, amateurishes, habitual gobemouches.
I really hope this forum is not only for who despire education but also for people who have been in school ... at least a little bid  ::)
All these paranoia like sayings as "naysayers will now leave us alone" ... "at the peril of one's life" ..."danger to his family"  ...
besides different kind of conspiracy theories and waffle about mysterious millionaires  ... there is good likeness with tragicomical Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp ...   Why you do not caterwaul today: "I was ardent believer !!!" ???
There is urgent need of to consider all odds and ends,
I have designed and built electric machines very many years, now and then when got some good idea I have realized this in one night.
Wonder that up till today none replicated this simplest motor.
cheers,
khabe



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: norman6538 on May 11, 2011, 12:11:02 AM
I am curious about the coil and magnet design and a technique that my OU
colleague and I used to test coils is to put them on a pendulum and operate them that way and count the swings and you can pick up very small differences. With today's announcement I'd like to use that technique to see if there is anyting unique to the physical arrangement. Powering the rotor is nothing new and backemf/FWBR is not new either.

Time will flush this out because there are some great guys here who are really onto this.

Norman
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 11, 2011, 12:11:14 AM
@taranarod . Did you get around to weighing the wire on one coil please
I will do this and post the value today will other details
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: LtBolo on May 11, 2011, 12:13:59 AM
It was fake all along but I did not want to spoil your excitement. Few would have heard me anyway.
 
Look again at the first “OU video” (lol!) and by the end of it ask yourself why is the power led (DC-DC converter) still on after he turns the switch off. Huh?!
Moreover, why is the same led flashing in sync with the RPM of the rotor when it should be disconnected from stator coils?!!!
Or to put it simpler…What does he switches off then if not the DC converter?!!!
Hint: the other power source? 15V, 1-2A, 2 thin wires… Go figure!

The switch only controlled the drive coils. The stator coils are still happily converting the kinetic energy of the rotor into plenty enough energy to keep the DC to DC happy with no load. No magic there.

RomeroUK doesn't remotely seem like the scammer type to me. Something happened...either good or bad...and he bailed. Simple. The information required the replicate the device is here. Follow through.

The Dragone paper referenced earlier does provide a very interesting glimpse into how a coil and PM can interact to produce significant OU, and could easily explain this device, Magnacoaster, and a host of other devices.

It takes faith to see what others cannot and strength to follow that to reality. Any blind weakling can be a snarking skeptic. It takes a special person to defy them.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 12:17:53 AM
Okay, I analyzed the first Video of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVU3ZM14rw

again.

I have followed all cables in single frame mode with
a local flash player on my PC with the HD version of
the movie and this machine is in my opinion for real.

He has all bridge rectifiers in parallel and at the switch, where
he switches on the bulb lamp, he just puts the 12 Volts
DC from all the parallel rectifier outputs onto the single red wire.
From there it goes first into the analog ampmeter and then to the analog voltmeter.
So the ampmeter is before the voltmeter.
From the voltmeter only the one yello cable goes to the bulb and at the bulb
the second yellow cable goes away to a "Y" connection where it meets the
black cable going to the analog voltmeter and the scond black cable going
up again to the black cable going to the minus pole of ALL
rectifiers.
So this output circuit is for real and it shows 12 Volts at 2 amps= 24 Watts.

Also there is no capacitor and this is probably pulsed DC where every
of the 7 coilpairs gives 2 x 12 Volts sin^2 pulse as shown in the scope shot.
As this is bridge rectified every coilpair gives 2 of these pulses and all
superimpose over time and as the rotor is spinng pretty fast these
analog meters show steady averaged values.

Also when he starts the device you can see for a blink of a second, that
the digital ampmeter shows 2.60 amps input current.
That is, when all 2 series coilpairs conduct from the 12.64 Volts battery voltage.

So one driver coilpair then has 2.6 / 2 = 1.3 amps running through the 2 series coils.
So
12.64 Volts / 1.3 amps= 9.72 Ohm for 2 coils in series.

So every single coil has about 4.86 Ohms of DC resistance.

I guess this could be for real, if you take the diameter of the 7 wires in parallel
and the 300 turns.

So this video is in my eyes, for real.

Also all his prior videos and the fact that he is also working on the
Magnacoster device also on his table are really very convincing,
that he did not do any fake...

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 11, 2011, 12:19:23 AM
Hello,
which device do you use for winding your coils?
Has anyone bought this one :
http://perfectgoodhelper.com/goods.php?id=1074

I have bought I-cores , the type used like in transformers and planed to build a adams motor with the following design :
http://motoradams.blogspot.com/
1,76 Watts in / 3,44 Watts out. Or maybe this Muller Design in a smaller scale.

here is the same data

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6959-robert-adams-pulse-motor-design-review-9.html
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 11, 2011, 12:22:39 AM
Okay, I analyzed the first Video of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVU3ZM14rw

again.

I have followed all cables in single frame mode with
a local flash player on my PC with the HD version of
the movie and this machine is in my opinion for real.

He has all bridge rectifiers in parallel and at the switch, where
he switches on the bulb lamp, he just puts the 12 Volts
DC from all the parallel rectifier outputs onto the single red wire.
From there it goes first into the analog ampmeter and then to the analog voltmeter.
So the ampmeter is before the voltmeter.
From the voltmeter only the one yello cable goes to the bulb and at the bulb
the second yellow cable goes away to a "Y" connection where it meets the
black cable going to the analog voltmeter and the scond black cable going
up again to the black cable going to the minus pole of ALL
rectifiers.
So this output circuit is for real and it shows 12 Volts at 2 amps= 24 Watts.

Also there is no capacitor and this is probably pulsed DC where every
of the 7 coilpairs gives 2 x 12 Volts sin^2 pulse as shown in the scope shot.
As this is bridge rectified every coilpair gives 2 of these pulses and all
superimpose over time and as the rotor is spinng pretty fast these
analog meters show steady averaged values.

Also when he starts the device you can see for a blink of a second, that
the digital ampmeter shows 2.60 amps input current.
That is, when all 2 series coilpairs conduct from the 12.64 Volts battery voltage.

So one driver coilpair then has 2.6 / 2 = 1.3 amps running through the 2 series coils.
So
12.64 Volts / 1.3 amps= 9.72 Ohm for 2 coils in series.

So every single coil has about 4.86 Ohms of DC resistance.

I guess this could be for real, if you take the diameter of the 7 wires in parallel
and the 300 turns.

So this video is in my eyes, for real.

Also all his prior videos and the fact that he is also working on the
Magnacoster device also on his table are really very convincing,
that he did not do any fake...

Regards, Stefan.

good work Stefan
this is good confirmation.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 11, 2011, 12:29:53 AM
The switch only controlled the drive coils. The stator coils are still happily converting the kinetic energy of the rotor into plenty enough energy to keep the DC to DC happy with no load. No magic there.

RomeroUK doesn't remotely seem like the scammer type to me. Something happened...either good or bad...and he bailed. Simple. The information required the replicate the device is here. Follow through.

The Dragone paper referenced earlier does provide a very interesting glimpse into how a coil and PM can interact to produce significant OU, and could easily explain this device, Magnacoaster, and a host of other devices.

It takes faith to see what others cannot and strength to follow that to reality. Any blind weakling can be a snarking skeptic. It takes a special person to defy them.

Exactly and on top of it, you can see the LED turn off when the rotor has significantly slowed down and the output of the pickup coils falls under the minimal input current for the DC converter to work.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 11, 2011, 12:30:24 AM
Well,
I think it all got over his head..
I still think from all the communications we had with him
and his history of other youtube projects
with the coil shortening success, etc,
that it was real and no fake.

He might have just fallen for an offer he received.

He told me 2 days ago, that he had at least 2 serious offers
worth of millions of US$...and also that he has his wife on his back and
that she did not want him to release it all for free...

So he probably pulled the plug and
removed his youtube channel now when he accepted an offer from
one of the companies...

Now I am glad he gave me the permission to copy his videos
to my youtube channeel:

http://www.youtube.com/overunitydotcom#g/u

There they still are there.

So I would advise to the members who already ordered the parts to
keep at it and try to replicate it and post as much infos as you can including
videos and scope shots.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

No problem. I ordered about $500 or more worthy of materials, so I guess I will build it and share the failures or may the successes.

Only one thing was very strange about the second "self-running video" where when he connects the second cable to the positive of the battery, where the other one was already there, and he removes both at the same time and shows the machine running in self-mode without the battery.

One can noticed that the second cable IS connected to the negative of the battery too. At 12 volts 7 amp battery it would easily melt that cable for the 3 seconds he was holding it on his hand. I have to revisit that video again, I could be wrong, but It looked like it was a dead short and not heating or burning his hands.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 12:53:48 AM
It was fake all along but I did not want to spoil your excitement. Few would have heard me anyway.
 
Look again at the first “OU video” (lol!) and by the end of it ask yourself why is the power led (DC-DC converter) still on after he turns the switch off. Huh?!


Look again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YqCp84IOE


Because the 47.000 uF cap is still in parallel with the DC2DC converter !
Man, look again at the video in detail ! I just did it again.

Quote
Moreover, why is the same led flashing in sync with the RPM of the rotor when it should be disconnected from stator coils?!!!
Or to put it simpler…What does he switches off then if not the DC converter?!!!
Hint: the other power source? 15V, 1-2A, 2 thin wires… Go figure!


???
It does not flash at all...
I just watched it again in HD directly from the FLV file on my PC.

The 47.000 uF cap is charged up at 15.07 Volts from all the coil voltage spikes
and when he switches off, only the cap powers still the DC2DC converter for
a while and then the cap discharges and also the LED goes dim and the rotor stops.
That is all what could be seen !

Very normal for such a circuit with 47.000 uF cap charged to 15.07 Volts at the input
of a DC2DC converter and just discharging.


Quote
I know, I’m MIB, oil-man, skeptic and a few dozen more…

Before leaving, greetings to the old friends still remembering me. 
See you on the next one, folks!

Probably you did not watch the movie correctly.
I can now see all cables exactly in the HD version and all
is well and no extra cables are seen.

I can recognize every cable which is there.
There are so many cables, cause he needs to bring up the
connections for the lower coils up to the top.
But all is exactly so, as the circuit diagrams have shown.

I think it is really genuine and no fake.

He was just bought out by one of the 2 companies I told you about.
I will reveal their names, if he will not answer my email in a few days.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scratchrobot on May 11, 2011, 12:58:48 AM
No problem. I ordered about $500 or more worthy of materials, so I guess I will build it and share the failures or may the successes.

Only one thing was very strange about the second "self-running video" where when he connects the second cable to the positive of the battery, where the other one was already there, and he removes both at the same time and shows the machine running in self-mode without the battery.

One can noticed that the second cable IS connected to the negative of the battery too. At 12 volts 7 amp battery it would easily melt that cable for the 3 seconds he was holding it on his hand. I have to revisit that video again, I could be wrong, but It looked like it was a dead short and not heating or burning his hands.

Fausto.

Look again.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Overunityguide on May 11, 2011, 01:04:24 AM
Best to just ignore people like that at this point...
Anyone with a clue about human nature can see you are an honest builder with only good intentions and real OU.

Told you so, "honest builder" yeah right
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 01:07:10 AM
No problem. I ordered about $500 or more worthy of materials, so I guess I will build it and share the failures or may the successes.

Only one thing was very strange about the second "self-running video" where when he connects the second cable to the positive of the battery, where the other one was already there, and he removes both at the same time and shows the machine running in self-mode without the battery.

One can noticed that the second cable IS connected to the negative of the battery too. At 12 volts 7 amp battery it would easily melt that cable for the 3 seconds he was holding it on his hand. I have to revisit that video again, I could be wrong, but It looked like it was a dead short and not heating or burning his hands.

Fausto.

I did read the same somewhere in Russian forums  -  this no shit short circuit made funny for guys, they concluded that battery must to be totally dead up and this short discussion about this wonder machine ended on the spot the same way.
To be fair then I have not seen it myself, dont know what exact video it is  ::)
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 01:14:22 AM
Hi Stefan.
any chance of a link to that final schematic, the last one I got was posted by Groundloop, maybe it is still the up-to-date one.
Also maybe you could post it on the home page for all to see, without having to trawl through the whole thread.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 01:16:50 AM
I was praying this does not happen! The offer he got was not money is Life or Death! The last post was not him that is so clear. My advice to everyone: 1. Fake all your details online 2. Switch off GPS on your phone 3. Browse from any anonymizer site if possible 4. Continue replication

Advice to admin: zero tolerance to sceptics. They could not get people to stop replication so they had to get the source.

My 2cents.
Goodluck. Be safe. We have also heard little from John bedini lately
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2011, 01:18:14 AM
Hi folks, lol. A TRILLION dollar funny money industry a year called energy and people think for even a millisecond that there is not a conspiracy to keep people dependent on others for energy.
All I have to say to that is, wake up. This is exactly their MO, they always try to kill the idea, that is impossible.
The idea or energy that comes up with all these ideas, can never be extinguished.
Alas, we are the ones we have been waiting for. Keep building, I AM. And if romero did take funny money for his silence, he will learn one day of this error.
Fear is like a party popper compared to the POWER OF LOVE.
peace love light
tyson

edit: So even if he was threatened with life or death, living in fear and tyranny is already death, some are learning what life or living truly is.
The few manipulating this world can never in a million years do this without our fear and help. Let me share an example with you.
I was in court and I asked the bailiff, you took an oath to uphold the law and the truth and do you know what he said, " I TOOK THE OATH FOR A JOB".
folks, do you know see what the main problem is. People in fear of their survival is the problem. Ask yourselves, what are people like this willing to do for a paycheck and i think history speaks clearly as to this.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 01:19:30 AM
Hi Stefan.
any chance of a link to that final schematic, the last one I got was posted by Groundloop, maybe it is still the up-to-date one.
Also maybe you could post it on the home page for all to see, without having to trawl through the whole thread.

Just get the version 1.1 of my PDF file here:

http://www.multiupload.com/TQ5UZT4YXU

There it is all in there.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Poit on May 11, 2011, 01:30:24 AM
thanks stefan for the pdf :)

quick question (sorry if it has been asked before):
what is the longest you have seen this device self run for?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: citfta on May 11, 2011, 01:31:30 AM
Are you guys talking about the black wire that seems to be divided into two white wires with a larger white wire going to the red wire on the left and the smaller part of the white wire going to the negative post of the battery?  What you are looking at is a piece of shielded cable.  The white wire going to the left is the insulation around the center conductor which is copper which you can see is twisted with the end of the red wire.  The other smaller white wire is probably not really white but silver and is the shield part of the cable.  I have made hundred of connections that looked just like that.  RomerUK is already gone so why are you guys still trying to beat a dead horse?  You should have realized by now most of the people reading this thread believe this is real and you are not going to change our minds with your silly accusations.

Carroll
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 01:32:41 AM
Yeah, very grievous,  brings to tears ... but why these rich millionaires want to give big money to Romero but never gave any cent to Muller and Bedini   ???
::)
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 01:44:10 AM
Here is the exact on-off switch location.
I just updated these 2 diagrams, that were still wrong in the 1.1 PDF file.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 01:45:13 AM
Just get the version 1.1 of my PDF file here:

http://www.multiupload.com/TQ5UZT4YXU

There it is all in there.

Regards, Stefan.

Thank's Stefan I finally got it, those not familiar with this website remember only click on the  "direct download"  otherwise you will get unwanted software
anyway that's what happened to me.

okay just seen that update thanks again
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 01:51:39 AM
I just see,
that in the
looping_motor_setup2.jpg
the start voltage position from the battery is still wrong.
In the video it was on the other side of the DC2DC converter...
but that is not so important, as the unit starts also itsself
when turning without any battery, RomeroUk said.


And the analog input ampmeter is also still missing,
but this is only a minor detail.
It is directly behind the Dc2DC converter output,
so it will also register the current going through the 20 Watts bulb.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: eisnad karm on May 11, 2011, 02:06:19 AM
The reality is thst no compsny would be offering millions of dollars on an open source project as their only protection is IP. Given his full dislosure and details it would be impossible to get one through now without being challenged..and what exactly is the IP. Many other experimentors could lay claims to the different aspects of these deigns.
However removoing all trace of everything was proberbly a request if he did have a real offer..too late many have backed it up.
You should contact the so called companies Stefan to confirm that...i would be very suprised if it was a reputable one as there are many claiming to have millions and they do not.
email me privately if you like or call me and i will tell you if they would be authentic. If not do your own homework.
Is it real or not, I do not know but given the information availabe you would expect one replicator to have success at least. Then what happens then? The replicator might discover further improvements. This is a real pandoras box.
Mark
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 11, 2011, 02:09:04 AM
ROMERO ROMERO ROMERO!!!! BUDDY ARE YOU SERIOUS YOU HAVE PERPETRATED A FRAUD?

People let this be a big lesson if you ever achieve overunity make dam sure you have every detail down to the type of epoxy you used and how much and every measurement!

And if you can afford the time even share a link on where you purchased every part from.

It will save you much headache then you drop this in there lap it will be purchased and built lickity split.

There will be no questions just replication make it with everything purchase ready! So its just a matter of slapping it together if you do not do this it will give people time to stop affording you the short window of belief that you have!

I am a little at fault for the whole deal and I do apologize to all of you out there who have stuff on the way... But I knew the questions would start pouring in so I tried to get them out of the way right away to prove there are no batteries or trickery...

Aside from all of this if he did pop open the DC converter it would likely run cooler and have a slightly better efficiency so why he was so against this is beyond me????

And as far as the cap goes if you visit www.badcaps.net you will find out that even caps were being pirated back in the days people were using cheap caps and putting them inside caps with a good name and the wrong specifications this is how some of the orientals got rid of all there bad capacitor stock.

Would you not want to verify this is not the case with the capacitor you are using????

Finally you just built an overunity device would you not want to go out of your way to prove that it is in fact overunity???

If he was really christian I would say that he is lacking of some of the morals of a christian the lord was very forgiving according to the bible and he sacrificed so much even his life so he could die for the sins of man and yet this guy cannot forgive a simple question or sacrifice ten more minutes to make a video with the capacitor being torn apart after the running of the device I do not understand?

Anyhow he can leave and give up that is his choice just remember when it comes time for judgement and you are waiting at the pearly gates and you did not make just a little more sacrifice to possibly save the billions of people headed for starvation and homelessness around the globe if your name is not on the list you will know why. There is a reason you were given this gift while the millions of others may have missed it... At the end it is all about what you have done to make the world a better more fair and equal place it aint about how many cars you had or whatever you don't take them with you and that is what a true christian believes no matter what!

Finally as far as the guy being rich if we were able to replicate this thing he would have received many more millions in donations then he ever would have gotten from some oil company or the DOE plus he would also go on to live for ever even after he was dead and gone.

Just some things I believe he should really consider if it is real cause if I were him I know it would be on my mind.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 02:19:44 AM
Looking at the schematic above I see 2 1n4007 recovery diodes.When the switch is off  is possible to have the LED lit by them while the rotor still turns.Is the big capacitor connected before or after the switch?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2011, 02:20:11 AM
Hi folks, As the old saying goes, 'you can't burn the candle at both ends' and expect to be free, money is all illusion, as is much else.
Here is what I have so far, using 5/16" diameter steel bolts, for now, though ferrite cores can be easily be attached to this setup later.
The reed switch is only temporary, to see how the motor function works and I'm waiting for glue to dry on other 5 coils, polyurethane glue takes awhile to dry.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: dole on May 11, 2011, 02:24:07 AM
Hi,
What a story!!
Eight days and nights. Little bit to short but I think we all really enjoy it, so do I.
Actually the lie or the truth, It does not matter, It myth be that just belief is enough.
I post this link somewhere before and apologize if you all ready read this,
another short story and I think it is completely the truth.

http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/2/3599/3599086_richard_bach__jonathan_livingston_seagull.pdf

So I hope you may like it and then back to work and wind some coils.

d.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 02:48:18 AM
Yeah, very grievous,  brings to tears ... but why these rich millionaires want to give big money to Romero but never gave any cent to Muller and Bedini   ???
::)
cheers,
khabe

I see you are senior member. You should check up on bedini's history. He stopped developing devices that produce energy but only battery chargers - he was wise. Bedini already had a selfrunner since the 80's
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 02:54:43 AM
ROMERO ROMERO ROMERO!!!! BUDDY ARE YOU SERIOUS YOU HAVE PERPETRATED A FRAUD?

People let this be a big lesson if you ever achieve overunity make dam sure you have every detail down to the type of epoxy you used and how much and every measurement!

And if you can afford the time even share a link on where you purchased every part from.

It will save you much headache then you drop this in there lap it will be purchased and built lickity split.

There will be no questions just replication make it with everything purchase ready! So its just a matter of slapping it together if you do not do this it will give people time to stop affording you the short window of belief that you have!

I am a little at fault for the whole deal and I do apologize to all of you out there who have stuff on the way... But I knew the questions would start pouring in so I tried to get them out of the way right away to prove there are no batteries or trickery...

Aside from all of this if he did pop open the DC converter it would likely run cooler and have a slightly better efficiency so why he was so against this is beyond me????

And as far as the cap goes if you visit www.badcaps.net you will find out that even caps were being pirated back in the days people were using cheap caps and putting them inside caps with a good name and the wrong specifications this is how some of the orientals got rid of all there bad capacitor stock.

Would you not want to verify this is not the case with the capacitor you are using????

Finally you just built an overunity device would you not want to go out of your way to prove that it is in fact overunity???

If he was really christian I would say that he is lacking of some of the morals of a christian the lord was very forgiving according to the bible and he sacrificed so much even his life so he could die for the sins of man and yet this guy cannot forgive a simple question or sacrifice ten more minutes to make a video with the capacitor being torn apart after the running of the device I do not understand?

Anyhow he can leave and give up that is his choice just remember when it comes time for judgement and you are waiting at the pearly gates and you did not make just a little more sacrifice to possibly save the billions of people headed for starvation and homelessness around the globe if your name is not on the list you will know why. There is a reason you were given this gift while the millions of others may have missed it... At the end it is all about what you have done to make the world a better more fair and equal place it aint about how many cars you had or whatever you don't take them with you and that is what a true christian believes no matter what!

Finally as far as the guy being rich if we were able to replicate this thing he would have received many more millions in donations then he ever would have gotten from some oil company or the DOE plus he would also go on to live for ever even after he was dead and gone.

Just some things I believe he should really consider if it is real cause if I were him I know it would be on my mind.
If it was fraud all he needed to say was I am sorry I made a mistake in connection or reading(anybody can make mistake) NOT take down his youtube account; take down his forum he has being building for years and tell us the world would remain the same.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 11, 2011, 03:00:55 AM
Hi folks, As the old saying goes, 'you can't burn the candle at both ends' and expect to be free, money is all illusion, as is much else.
Here is what I have so far, using 5/16" diameter steel bolts, for now, though ferrite cores can be easily be attached to this setup later.
The reed switch is only temporary, to see how the motor function works and I'm waiting for glue to dry on other 5 coils, polyurethane glue takes awhile to dry.
peace love light
tyson

Key to making this work is absolute essential to use ferrite cores as minimum standard. BUT its much better to use metglas or other extreme high permeability cores because this is the OU transform component. Expect to spend as much if not more on the cores as the neo magnets as they work in harmony.

Next is minimise all losses. bearings, build quality etc must be precision made. Unless you have several hundred dollars to spend on doing this properly then you are wasting your time and money.

Many people still doubt this device. Clearly never done any homework to see Muller made dozens and dozens of OU self looping generators. He sold quite a few i imagine they are still powering someone's houses today. Many people went to see him and his generators before he died.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Liberty on May 11, 2011, 03:04:07 AM
The reality is thst no compsny would be offering millions of dollars on an open source project as their only protection is IP. Given his full dislosure and details it would be impossible to get one through now without being challenged..and what exactly is the IP. Many other experimentors could lay claims to the different aspects of these deigns.
However removoing all trace of everything was proberbly a request if he did have a real offer..too late many have backed it up.
You should contact the so called companies Stefan to confirm that...i would be very suprised if it was a reputable one as there are many claiming to have millions and they do not.
email me privately if you like or call me and i will tell you if they would be authentic. If not do your own homework.
Is it real or not, I do not know but given the information availabe you would expect one replicator to have success at least. Then what happens then? The replicator might discover further improvements. This is a real pandoras box.
Mark

Hi Mark,

If you get time, check out the first movie.  The device starts out at v=12.61 and then firms up at 12.57 volts with current at about .94 amp.  When the light is turned on at time 2:53 into the movie, the voltage drops to 12.29 volts (barely seen in the side of the screen) and the amp meter drops also to .92A.  Then just after the light is turned off, at time 2:58, the volt meter jumps up and reads 12.48 volts and the amp meter reads .93A.  It appears that the light is running right off the battery but the current is not being read through the digital meter.  It has been fun to watch though.

Liberty
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 03:14:29 AM
Hi Mark,

If you get time, check out the first movie.  The device starts out at v=12.61 and then firms up at 12.57 volts with current at about .94 amp.  When the light is turned on at time 2:53 into the movie, the voltage drops to 12.29 volts (barely seen in the side of the screen) and the amp meter drops also to .92A.  Then just after the light is turned off, at time 2:58, the volt meter jumps up and reads 12.48 volts and the amp meter reads .93A.  It appears that the light is running right off the battery but the current is not being read through the digital meter.  It has been fun to watch though.

Liberty

No,
if you look carefully you see, that the cables come from the rectifiers and not from the battery.
so the lamp is powered by the generator.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: ZeroFossilFuel on May 11, 2011, 03:26:46 AM
Quote
Aside from all of this if he did pop open the DC converter it would likely run cooler and have a slightly better efficiency so why he was so against this is beyond me????

Sorry folks but if he did take apart the "DC converter", all you'd see is the 9v battery that made his pulse motor go.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 03:32:59 AM
Sorry folks but if he did take apart the "DC converter", all you'd see is the 9v battery that made his pulse motor go.

No,
cause you see exactly that the generator supplies the current,
Cause as he switches off you see exactly that the cap discharges into the
DC2DC converter and the LED lights still this long...
and then gets dimmer as the cap gets discharged...

If there would have been a battery inside the DC2DC converter,
it would have still run,
as the DC2DC converter was NOT switched off... !
Only the charging of the cap from the generator was switched off !

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: REDCAR1957 on May 11, 2011, 03:35:51 AM
Sorry folks but if he did take apart the "DC converter", all you'd see is the 9v battery that made his pulse motor go.
Oh man ya'll what about the genie? ???
look at and study what he has given you here  ::)
it feels like I have gone back 2000 years and looking  :'(
for a cross guys just have faith not doubt ;)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2011, 03:41:22 AM
Hi folks, Hi bolt, you said,
Quote
Key to making this work is absolute essential to use ferrite cores as minimum standard.
How can you know this for a fact, though you're probably correct.
I will be getting ferrite cores after I test this out first.
Ya no kidding zerofossilfuel, doubt is not part of the scientific process and doubt has never created anything.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: energy1234hope on May 11, 2011, 03:42:36 AM
Stefan can you do us all a favour you have broke his device down into lots of frame photos to prove that in theory the device will work. could you post them all in a pdf file. Showing every little detail of device for easier replication thanks
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magneticitist on May 11, 2011, 04:12:55 AM
well being that the rotor was driven predominantly by a special PM to PM arrangement and not a drive coil, in my opinion, hell regardless how it was driven we can conclude it was a special magnet arrangement. so we already know its not overunity, its using the magnets which are just super efficient batteries.  since designs that utilize this system are still high in demand by those who wish to extend their life behind curtains im sure he WAS given some nice offers, assuming his motor was genuine.

BUT, its more likely he just got pissed off and tired of a bajillion pricks contacting him in every way insulting and threatening him for making them look stupid, from students, to professors, to physicists, to govt officials, to big power henchmen.
mixing that with the thought of trying to filter all that crap out of all the positive messages is a headache, easily. the guy had obviously taken a lot of time for it to be a hoax that he gathers so little spotlight for so short a time before vanishing. doesn't make sense.

sorry i lied, now "$#@& off", is a quick fix to get rid of the haters.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: TEKTRON on May 11, 2011, 04:23:42 AM
Look again.


No, you look again... The black cable is coming form the output of the dc/dc convertor, It contains 2 conductors. the white wire is the positive and the other wire that looks white is  silver and it is the bare shielding twisted and connected to the ground side of the battery where it should be. This is not a fake!
John  :-*
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 04:26:23 AM


No, you look again... The black cable is coming form the output of the dc/dc convertor, It contains 2 conductors. the white wire is the positive and the other wire that looks white is  silver and it is the bare shielding twisted and connected to the ground side of the battery where it should be. This is not a fake!
John  :-*

That is correct.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 11, 2011, 04:34:51 AM
I still have faith in this device...

But lets not get ahead of ourselves some of the most elaborate hoaxes have cost much time and money there is always a possibility that what you are seeing is not 100% correct if so magicians would not have a job. And some of them hoaxes like the alien abduction video sent off to tons and tons of people at the time this was all on a fairly expensive VHS tape and the video which was made over in the UK or whatever was funded by some wealthy guy it was a lot of time and money to pull that hoax off believe it!

There are complete seasons of shows all dedicated to busting hoaxes and myths it is for good reason.

Do I believe the guy was hoaxing us well actually at the time of him being cooperative absolutely not my main stay was to fend off the later comments about there being magical batteries latter as my room mate an electrical engineer that is the first thing he said that thing could be using some batteries in the DC to DC converter. I quickly opted to tell him we should build it replicate it so we know for sure and that was the plan to build it and if it worked we then would upscale it and throw the info back onto the net. If not we would seek help for what we may have wrong... So to cut to the chase when someone tells you that they pulled a prank on you its not real that kills the drive to investigate something further I have projects to work on which I know will work... So with that said do I believe that this device works now well only if the guy comes back and verifies one way or another and until then I likely will not shell out a dollar or ounce of sweat to this project unless I hear of a successful replication.

And whats going to happen is we will not hear of a successful replication without all the specifications and there are sure a many of people out there thinking this same way shame I really wanted this thing to work and it may but for now I"ll place it on the back burner in its place there are a many more projects to take care of.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 11, 2011, 04:50:21 AM
Look again.

I just watched again and indeed at 2:52 to 2:55 where he connects the red cable, which is ALSO connected to the negative, to the positive of the battery for about 8 seconds (which should definitely melt the cable). See pics.

I don't know what this means. I am not saying it is a fake, actually I think it is for real, but something is wrong here.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2011, 04:50:31 AM
And yet again more doubt being spread.
I think it's plainly obvious for anyone with two braincells to rub together that romero has been suppressed in some manner.
Anyone, tell me where in the scientific method is doubt and casting doubt and this without a shred of evidence to support such doubt.
Science is based on experiments and replication, now leave the people to their constructive activities.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 11, 2011, 04:50:57 AM
Okay, I analyzed the first Video of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVU3ZM14rw

again.

I have followed all cables in single frame mode with
a local flash player on my PC with the HD version of
the movie and this machine is in my opinion for real.

He has all bridge rectifiers in parallel and at the switch, where
he switches on the bulb lamp, he just puts the 12 Volts
DC from all the parallel rectifier outputs onto the single red wire.
From there it goes first into the analog ampmeter and then to the analog voltmeter.
So the ampmeter is before the voltmeter.
From the voltmeter only the one yello cable goes to the bulb and at the bulb
the second yellow cable goes away to a "Y" connection where it meets the
black cable going to the analog voltmeter and the scond black cable going
up again to the black cable going to the minus pole of ALL
rectifiers.
So this output circuit is for real and it shows 12 Volts at 2 amps= 24 Watts.

Also there is no capacitor and this is probably pulsed DC where every
of the 7 coilpairs gives 2 x 12 Volts sin^2 pulse as shown in the scope shot.
As this is bridge rectified every coilpair gives 2 of these pulses and all
superimpose over time and as the rotor is spinng pretty fast these
analog meters show steady averaged values.

Also when he starts the device you can see for a blink of a second, that
the digital ampmeter shows 2.60 amps input current.
That is, when all 2 series coilpairs conduct from the 12.64 Volts battery voltage.

So one driver coilpair then has 2.6 / 2 = 1.3 amps running through the 2 series coils.
So
12.64 Volts / 1.3 amps= 9.72 Ohm for 2 coils in series.

So every single coil has about 4.86 Ohms of DC resistance.

I guess this could be for real, if you take the diameter of the 7 wires in parallel
and the 300 turns.

So this video is in my eyes, for real.

Also all his prior videos and the fact that he is also working on the
Magnacoster device also on his table are really very convincing,
that he did not do any fake...

Regards, Stefan.

Nice work Stefan.  Thanks for going through that video so thoroughly.  Sometime back maybe 6 months to a year ago I had some PM's with Romero.  He has been intimidated or threatened in the past on some thing he was building.  Hopefully that didn't happen here but on the other hand the timing of him announcing that followed shortly after you halted some trolls so I'm somewhat wondering if one of those trolls or whoever they are decided to take revenge by sending Romero some threat to look like a MIB or something that Romero took as a real threat and bailed - which I couldn't blame him as he's got a family to worry about.  Either way like most here I think he was onto something as it would make absolutely no sense for him to shoot himself in the foot by faking something and taking it this far and then saying it was fake.  Only two scenario's would cause that and we know both of them are possible.  For his sake I hope it turned into some money and security for his family but depending on the situation they could well be watching him the rest of his life as I know someone in this situation. 
 
  I don't really think this can be stopped at this point if it's valid and I think there is every reason to believe it is.  There are way too many very sharp researcher/builders here with a tenacious mindset to stop this. 

   BUILD ON .....

P.S.  I had not yet finished reading the last several pages and see now it looks like a buyout was more likely.  Hopefully if that's the case it is a 'safe' group to deal with. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 11, 2011, 04:58:30 AM
I dont know what happened to Romero. I believe him and I wish him well.

If he did sell, what would most choose, the pain in the ass the past week has been, or a new life?  I hope he has a good new life if thats the case. We have enough to move on. And even if he has a deal going on, then THEY must fully know of us and what is presented, and staying presented. Thats the odd part.  I think a big co. if interested in making money with it, would probably think twice due to massive disclosure that already exists.  If it was BIG co. then they could care less other than to eliminate the target device to not let it in the open.

But Romero probably did not accept first offerings and continued to disclose.  Thats the scary senario, as it may help us assume what really went down.  :(

Either way, if the big co. took it, well knowing of the disclosure so far, or if BIG co. took it, I believe Romero is still anticipating us to continue on  ;D , as he is out of the loop now.

Good luck Romero!!  Thanks for everything. Really. You are the man.  ;)

Here are some things I think on the device.....

In that scope shot. Is that the combined output of all coils in succession, or is it of just 1 coil pair?

Either way, I see the larger flat spot as if the rotor mag is in between coils. And the peaks are showing when the mag is on top of the approaching edge of the coil or close and just after passing the core. The short flat spots are when the mag is over the core.

When the mag approaches the coil, it is concentrated on just one side of the coil, producing a positive or negative peak, and on the exit we see the opposite polarity peak.

As the mag approaches, the mags field is attracted to the side of the coils core, where the windings are, causing current to flow in one direction through the coil. And when the mag passes the core, the field lines will be attracted to the exit side of the core, causing current to flow the other way.

I think if we analyze the wave form, I believe we can see a difference in the attack and decay of the peaks, as it should be, because of where the mag filelds begin and end in the attack, and where they begin and end in the decay.

Like in an alternator stator core,( you can search pics to see) its not the armature field just jumping from core section to core section that causes the current in the stator windings, its the fields being dragged along the stator core and flowing into the winding gaps that creates the currents in the windings.  ;]  The fields need to CUT the windings to produce current in the wire. Period.  ;]

Now we have another ingredient. The Bias mags.  ;]

Are they just biasing the coils?

I see it this way.....

Lets just picture 1 set of coils, top and bottom, no rotor.

I think that being the top and bottom are in attraction to each other, when the rotor mag is not over the coils, but in between coils, that this attraction happens and helps to create a flux field band between top and bottom coils. Not necessarily tight, but a band of moderate concentration.

Now we will just look at the top coil and assume the bottom will mirror the tops actions.  ;]

When the rotor mag approaches the coil, we might think that the mag is not attracted to the coil core. It may not, being the core is biased in repulsion to the approaching mag pole. This approach of the rotor mag will most likely push the bias field to the opposite side of the coil core. Now we have the bias mags field cutting the exit side of the coil, and we have the entry side of the coil being cut by the rotor mag.  ;)

This combination could be doubling the amount of flux cutting the coil at that time. Instead of just cutting on the approaching side, and just the exit side when the mag passes the coil.  This may be key to his amount of generation, for such an open and seemingly sparse generator construction, say as compared to any production model considered.

More later....

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magneticitist on May 11, 2011, 04:59:31 AM
@ plengo i noticed that too i thought i saw it wrong and didnt doubletake =)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 05:01:23 AM
I just watched again and indeed at 2:52 to 2:55 where he connects the red cable, which is ALSO connected to the negative, to the positive of the battery for about 8 seconds (which should definitely melt the cable). See pics.

I don't know what this means. I am not saying it is a fake, actually I think it is for real, but something is wrong here.

Fausto.

No, Fausto,
have a better look !
The red cable 2 that you declared is just only connected to the white positive output lead of the DC2DC converter.
The other "White colored" or "better silver colored cable" from the DC2DC converter is the "ground cable" of the DC2DC converter
connected to the minus pole of the battery.

Hope you see it now.
The black output cable of the DC2DC converter has of course 2 different leads, not one !

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: TEKTRON on May 11, 2011, 05:07:53 AM
I just watched again and indeed at 2:52 to 2:55 where he connects the red cable, which is ALSO connected to the negative, to the positive of the battery for about 8 seconds (which should definitely melt the cable). See pics.

I don't know what this means. I am not saying it is a fake, actually I think it is for real, but something is wrong here.

Fausto.

See?


Edit sorry can't draw worth a darn ..please fix and I will remove this one
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 11, 2011, 05:09:15 AM
Guys, lets drop the drama and get busy.  ;D

If Romero is rich or shaking scared, I think he would be thrilled to see us finish this and gitter dun.   ;)

Lets here some theories. Lets help each other and ignore the crappers.
They are not worth it. Ignore Ignore Ignore. they will feel unimportant soon enough to not even waste the time any further.  ;)

I am going to do some investigating on my theory above. We need to understand this.

Keep on keepin on

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 05:11:02 AM
Hi Fausto,
here is a picture for you to better explain it.
Hope you see it now, that your last posting was wrong...


Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 11, 2011, 05:16:54 AM
Hi Fausto,
here is a picture for you to better explain it.
Hope you see it now, that your last posting was wrong...

THANK YOU Stefan, I new something was wrong and it was me. I am soooooo glad.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 05:22:01 AM
Go on guys... we are almost there...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 05:23:15 AM
Yes, now you are right, Fausto.

The left white cable from the black DC2DC converter cable is the positive voltage output of the DC2DC converter
and the right more silvery colored cable is the ground cable of the DC2DC converter output ( minus pole).
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 11, 2011, 05:28:21 AM
Yes, now you are right, Fausto.

The left white cable from the black DC2DC converter cable is the positive voltage output of the DC2DC converter
and the right more silvery colored cable is the ground cable of the DC2DC converter output ( minus pole).

I am pretty convinced this is for real too. That was the only thing I could spot looking very closely to the videos that was strange (as I said before).

Everything on the video, the voltage fluctuations, the cables, the way the motor spins and current changes, the voltage variations of the DC and the motor reaction, the non-Lenz effect when the lamp is connected and the speed did not change.

If this was a fake is a dam good fake of tremendous details. Details of the level of one guy that should KNOW how it should behave in those conditions. Which is only possible for people that really experiment with this stuff.

I am glad I am doing the investment on the parts and I tell you they ARE NOT CHEAP at all and I will probably still buy more to make this correct.

I put my money where my mouth is!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 11, 2011, 05:34:45 AM
Key to making this work is absolute essential to use ferrite cores as minimum standard. BUT its much better to use metglas or other extreme high permeability cores because this is the OU transform component. Expect to spend as much if not more on the cores as the neo magnets as they work in harmony.

Next is minimise all losses. bearings, build quality etc must be precision made. Unless you have several hundred dollars to spend on doing this properly then you are wasting your time and money.

Many people still doubt this device. Clearly never done any homework to see Muller made dozens and dozens of OU self looping generators. He sold quite a few i imagine they are still powering someone's houses today. Many people went to see him and his generators before he died.

bolt,  any ideas where one can find some small metglas or similar rods?  I was looking for some but so far no luck.  Not sure I can afford but will consider it if I can find some.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 11, 2011, 05:42:01 AM
I am pretty convinced this is for real too. That was the only thing I could spot looking very closely to the videos that was strange (as I said before).

Everything on the video, the voltage fluctuations, the cables, the way the motor spins and current changes, the voltage variations of the DC and the motor reaction, the non-Lenz effect when the lamp is connected and the speed did not change.

If this was a fake is a dam good fake of tremendous details. Details of the level of one guy that should KNOW how it should behave in those conditions. Which is only possible for people that really experiment with this stuff.

I am glad I am doing the investment on the parts and I tell you they ARE NOT CHEAP at all and I will probably still buy more to make this correct.

I put my money where my mouth is!

Fausto.

Romero was going out of his way planning to get another video out to prove it's real -- despite of his complaints of such unproductive work and of his word not to do such video again (with many of us expressing our agreement and support on his decision) -- he is a nice guy. Then all in a sudden it is all interrupted, and he is seen no more here...What happened? I hope he is still alive...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 11, 2011, 05:42:18 AM
Hi Fausto,
here is a picture for you to better explain it.
Hope you see it now, that your last posting was wrong...

Gang, I'll give you my take on it.  It is very simple, he started the generator on the battery at around 12.6VDC, the DC/DC converter started running on the 15+DC output of the generator with 12.6 VDC out,give or take to fold back but not connected to start. He then paralleled the output of the DC converter with the battery, then took the battery out of the circuit and it was then running on the converter!  Why are all the doubters making it so hard.  The differential current between the converter and battery was almost nill as voltage was basically the same and was a simple and nifty way to show how he eliminated the battery!!!!!  No more, no less.  Lordy, so much BS about nothing. 

Now quit BSing and start building! I'm tired of seeing the same thing beat to death again and again and again! What has happened is so un-characteristic of the man that I prefer to think it was the real deal. Everything else is just like the "National Enquirer" IF anyone comes up with something negative, first explain it to their wife or girlfriend, when she agrees, post it!  Ha.   

So lets build, have fun, and hope someone hits on it!  If not, life will go on!  I'll post pictures good, bad or ugly in a couple weeks when parts come together!  I'm fully convinced that building is not the problem if done with some degree of precision, getting the correct spacing between all the magnets and cores with maximum output, maximum RPM, with minimum input, is where the work will be.  Lets see, 18 separate bias magnet adjustments, 16 coil/core to magnet adjustments, two Hall effect sensors to adjust for maximum speed.  That should keep even the most avid tinker/builder busy for a few days!!!!!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Dbowling on May 11, 2011, 05:48:33 AM
Guys,
Just a quick word on rotors. I cut mine out of "cutting board" plastic that can be bought at any restaurant supply house. They are 1/2 inch thick, which is the same thickness as the neos I am using. I drill a 1/2 inch hole in the center on my drill press, so that once it is rough cut on the ban saw, jig saw, or whatever saw I happen to feel like using that day, I can slide it onto the shaft of my bench grinder after the grinding wheel is removed. Then I can spin it up to high rpm's and use any one of a number of word working rasps, files, etc., to smooth it down to its final shape and assure that it is ROUND. Then I stick it back on the drill press, using the 1/2 inch bit through the existing hole to center it. I clamp it into place, and then remove the 1/2 inch drill bit and drill whatever size center hole I want. I usually cut two at once and make them all the same. Then I use a template to mark the center holes for the positions of the magnets, and drill the holes for them. Here are two I made today with 1" neos fro this project.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 11, 2011, 05:50:33 AM
Gang, I'll give you my take on it.  It is very simple, he started the generator on the battery at around 12.6VDC, the DC/DC converter started running on the 15+DC output of the generator with 12.6 VDC out,give or take to fold back but not connected to start. He then paralleled the output of the DC converter with the battery, then took the battery out of the circuit and it was then running on the converter!  Why are all the doubters making it so hard.  The differential current between the converter and battery was almost nill as voltage was basically the same and was a simple and nifty way to show how he eliminated the battery!!!!!  No more, no less.  Lordy, so much BS about nothing. 

Now quit BSing and start building! I'm tired of seeing the same thing beat to death again and again and again! What has happened is so un-characteristic of the man that I prefer to think it was the real deal. Everything else is just like the "National Enquirer" IF anyone comes up with something negative, first explain it to their wife or girlfriend, when she agrees, post it!  Ha.   

So lets build, have fun, and hope someone hits on it!  If not, life will go on!  I'll post pictures good, bad or ugly in a couple weeks when parts come together!  I'm fully convinced that building is not the problem if done with some degree of precision, getting the correct spacing between all the magnets and cores with maximum output, maximum RPM, with minimum input, is where the work will be.  Lets see, 18 separate bias magnet adjustments, 16 coil/core to magnet adjustments, two Hall effect sensors to adjust for maximum speed.  That should keep even the most avid tinker/builder busy for a few days!!!!!

Ben K4ZEP

Your're right. Please, read my post before this one. I am with you. Let's build. My parts are on the way.

We need ALSO to look at every detail of this video and evidence presented. We will dissect it many times since it is not an easy thing to come up with an OU device. So, with that being said, I will probably show many more pictures and ask more questions about it.

Not to be skeptical at all, after all you can see my videos on Youtube and easily see I am crazy believer in OU and a experimentalist. It is simply necessary to honestly discuss ALL the parameters and eliminate doubt. It is through this process that we learn.

In my case, I raised an issue and Now I learned how the DC is connected back to the battery which I was not able to see before, BUT it took my honest open criticism of the my not understanding of the problem to get it solved.

Peace,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 11, 2011, 06:00:44 AM
I am pretty convinced this is for real too. That was the only thing I could spot looking very closely to the videos that was strange (as I said before).

Everything on the video, the voltage fluctuations, the cables, the way the motor spins and current changes, the voltage variations of the DC and the motor reaction, the non-Lenz effect when the lamp is connected and the speed did not change.

If this was a fake is a dam good fake of tremendous details. Details of the level of one guy that should KNOW how it should behave in those conditions. Which is only possible for people that really experiment with this stuff.

I am glad I am doing the investment on the parts and I tell you they ARE NOT CHEAP at all and I will probably still buy more to make this correct.

I put my money where my mouth is!

Fausto.
Good deal plengo.  I'm glad you see it now.  Have you stripped coax cable before?  I've done plenty and it was obvious for me and hopefully for others too now. 

build on ....
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 11, 2011, 06:14:48 AM
Guys,
Just a quick word on rotors. I cut mine out of "cutting board" plastic that can be bought at any restaurant supply house. They are 1/2 inch thick, which is the same thickness as the neos I am using. I drill a 1/2 inch hole in the center on my drill press, so that once it is rough cut on the ban saw, jig saw, or whatever saw I happen to feel like using that day, I can slide it onto the shaft of my bench grinder after the grinding wheel is removed. Then I can spin it up to high rpm's and use any one of a number of word working rasps, files, etc., to smooth it down to its final shape and assure that it is ROUND. Then I stick it back on the drill press, using the 1/2 inch bit through the existing hole to center it. I clamp it into place, and then remove the 1/2 inch drill bit and drill whatever size center hole I want. I usually cut two at once and make them all the same. Then I use a template to mark the center holes for the positions of the magnets, and drill the holes for them. Here are two I made today with 1" neos fro this project.

Dbowling,  Nice suggestions and just what we need at this point as some may hesitate to spend a lot more at this point so money saving ideas are great.  Seeing as many new people here I have a feeling there are a whole lot more replications going on than we can even guess.  In general I think most forums have 10 to 20% of the people actually making posts and 80 to 90% just reading and building while being quiet.  Some people are just shy and some are just quiet types but I think this device is going VIRAL ! 

Sorry Romero I hope this doesn't effect you in any negative way but unless it was a buyout that's going to end up in Walmart in 6 months I gotta say the world needs this NOW and not stuffed away in some underground facility or shelved or in R & D for 20 years or any of the other nonsense that seems to always happen. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 11, 2011, 06:17:27 AM
Its a clear as day the  battery lead is the coax supply from the DC inverter.  If you ever stripped back a laptop supply you see the same wire. Its SHIELDED coax because its a switching inverter and is RF noisy and there are inline chokes fitted near the inverter also.

Oh wait that might be an AA battery with some black tape around it...oh bugger.:)

PS make sure you find some nice cores otherwise this ain't going to work. Its the very reason Muller went in search of special black Amorphous sand. However in recent years high power Switching PSU's require very high permeability cores some are 100 or 1000 times better than standard ferrite so no need to go looking for black sand.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 11, 2011, 06:41:13 AM
bolt,  any ideas where one can find some small metglas or similar rods?  I was looking for some but so far no luck.  Not sure I can afford but will consider it if I can find some.

i did spot some yesterday on a google search they are not easy to find you need specialist core company. None on ebay either only standard ferrite stuff.

I don’t know how well it would work but try 2 or 3 rings toroidal cores made of metglas or better and glue them together. Plenty of those things everywhere compared to tube cores especially if you go over 1/4".  Wrap a piece of card around them then wind on to that instead. If you see the SR Kapandze replication he used about 12 off metglass toroidal cores. Im only mentioning this because everything is related in this game. He almost certainly used counter wound opposing coils instead of magnets to create the backend flux re-gauging then forced the cores into the non linear BH region. The modulated HT provides the cores excitation without spinning magnets. Sorry to detract but when you "join the dots" in these systems makes it a lot easier to understand what it happening here.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: eisnad karm on May 11, 2011, 06:48:16 AM
I am hoping someone does replicate this. well at worst you will a few extra parts for future projects. To the MIB and big oil fans...go read up on Rossi. He has a device that puts out kilowatts of power while only consuming a gram of Hydrogen and nickle and an unknown catylist. Is very small and the greek government is supporting it and investors are funding it. They are planning to start with 300,000 units per year plus lincence other companies. It costs all up less than 1c  kilowatt to run. He is involving Universities in verifying it and they are signing licence deals world wide. So where is the MIB and big oil. He has demonstrated publically and to the press out puts 40 times the input...may not be overunity exactly but is simplistic and spectatcular.
So for all the conspiracy theorists please go explain how he has managed to do that.
Mark
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: ElectricGoose on May 11, 2011, 07:32:22 AM
I thought you guys were smarter than this  ::)

REALLY???  You thought that??  LOL  :D

When the people wanna believe....they wanna believe enmasse....TESTIFY!!!!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Poit on May 11, 2011, 07:55:32 AM
I too thought he was shorting the battery out, but after further examination I concluded (what others here have pointed out too) that the black wire is split into a white and a grey...

All in all, this project looks very promising..... my only wish is to build it my self .. but i feel my skills and experience just isn't enough to get my head around it (technically) :(
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: steeltpu on May 11, 2011, 08:03:10 AM
trolls are still trying.  This may seem off topic.  However I hope all of you can see how appropriate it is at this time as it is the same situation or close to it.  It is time to stop putting up with this bullshit.  Stop looking over your shoulder if you have something.  Time to turn the tables and become the pursuers instead of the pursued.
Look at this and tell me this isn't maddening and much the same as what is happening here.  This just came out today:

" Jim Humble NEWSLETTER
Kill Order #?
5/10/2011

I have just learned from a highly reliable source that the FBI now has a kill order on Jim Humble.  That’s me.  I wish I could say that the Government source isn’t very reliable, but this source has proven to be very reliable up to this time.  Several plans were to be considered including having me invited to a country in Asia and there I would have an accident.  The other possibility was that I could have an accident here in the Dominican Republic, but that would be a less likely plan.  But remember, when Obama says kill, that's what they do.  It doesn't matter if they are guilty or not.   

Why not?  They kidnapped my friend, Greg Caton, from Ecuador and brought him back to prison after Ecuador had given him political asylum.   It was in the newspaper about a year ago.  Check it out for yourself. Search for "Greg Canton Kidnapped" in Google search.   I have another friend in prison for healing people and another one, with his legs blown off for healing people.   There is a list of 160 scientists who have made inventions that would aid mankind in one way or another who have died violent deaths in the past 20 years.  That isn’t my idea.  Check it out on the internet.   I don’t care if you believe in conspiracy theories or not; just be willing to read.  It’s all there.

The reason I am telling you this is, so that when I come up missing or come up dead you will know what has really happened.  And of course, you probably already know that should my death occur, all my books and other materials on MMS become public domain. That is already written into my copyright.  Hopefully then, people who knew me or of me will print my books, mainly the last one, and hand them out wholesale until everyone on the planet has one.

I know that there are many of you that are not accustomed to this sort of thing, but on the other hand I have gotten letters from time to time that show that there are many people who do know the score.  And the score is, that there are people in this world who are beginning to lose money because of MMS.  That, of course is, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, clinics, doctors, and a host of related industries.  They aren’t too worried about a few million dollars of losses now, but they are looking at the huge loss that will soon be happening when MMS becomes popular. We all know that, “the love of money”, is one of the main reasons for the world’s problems.

Of course, it is a little late for them to do anything now with more than 8 million people having used MMS and with thousands of web sites and with thousands of MMS success stories posted all over the world. But still, if they could say I disappeared and then if they put some poisoned MMS out without me to oppose them they might make some of their lies stick.  Remember, for every cancer patient that they convince that MMS doesn’t work they make $800,000 dollars for the cancer industry. A similar story exists for malaria the worst disease of mankind and many other diseases."

 

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Tudi on May 11, 2011, 08:58:02 AM
yesterday it was all about the fun of assembling things. Let's try to keep that way. Maybe we learn some things in the process. It does not really matter what kind of conspiracy theory is true regarding romerouk, he gave all the info he had, all he asked is a confirmation for the process. In the end it was not him claiming anything, he only tried to replicate other's claims. I see no point for him to disappear without a reason(whatever that would be)

ps: I wonder why bill muller was not shot
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wopwops on May 11, 2011, 09:07:29 AM
I wonder why Sterling Allen wasn't all over this one? Does anyone else find that weird?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 11, 2011, 09:26:10 AM
[...]
Maybe we learn some things in the process
[...]

hi Tudi, welcome back

what did you make of the Dragone paper i posted for you?

np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Tudi on May 11, 2011, 09:53:58 AM
Hi nul-points

In the first line of dragone document it states : ...the current in the coil is turned on, the coil fields can aid or cancel the PM field.
That means you are sacrificing power from a source to cancel out an electromagenetic field. There is only loss here and absolutly no gain. He might be right about harnesing the "comback of the EMF" which in absolut theoretical values would give you a total 0 energy cycle ( you spent energy to cancel out the EMF, then your harnessed the resonant circuit to get back that same energy).
They say that a permanent magnet creates a magnetic field that is considered a STATE and not energy. You cannot harness a state. Yes, moving metals close to a magnet will also try to align their state to their neighbour thanks to the mechanical energy you sacrifice to force them move closer or leave the field.
Yes, the document is right about the fenomenon of thermal energy gain loss when fields get created or colapsed. This is documented on wikipedia. Permanent magnets are created at high temperature and high magnetic field when the structure of the material gets rearanged. This magnetic property will be lost if one of the above conditions are met to cancel out the rearangement. This is important to know to understand why the core of a coil heats up. As you move a permanent magnet close to the ferite core, you sacrifice mechanical energy to rearange the structure of the ferite core to inherit the magnetic state of the permanent magnet. As the magnet leaves the vecinity of the core the ferite gets rearanged again. Due to the 2 state changes, the mechanical energy gets converted into heat.
Yes, there are theories this heat can be converted back to another form of energy.

short version: muller generator is about having balance. The idea is to not convert mechanical energy into heat by changing the ferite core. It is also about avoiding the trap of the backemf.
Imagine you breath through a pipe. The air is electron flow. You try to inhale using the pipe ( PM getting close to coil) but you take your mouth away when breathing out ( the colapsing field will try to obtain energy from other forms ). There are theories that this colapsing field will take much longer to get to a 0 point then the amount of time it takes to build up, some say that in case the circuit separation is not mechanical + strong enough a virtual capacitor will get created at the separation point and slowly discharging ( the discharge gap of many devices i see around ).

Why i think this circuit might work :
- there are states of this machine when electromagnetic fields are getting created and colapsed. EMF is a state, it is not energy ! State changes come from mechanical energy in this device.
- there is a smart circuit to try to separate the back EMF from the EMF buildup
- the positioning of the magnets ABOVE the coils that are trying to balance the magnetic state of the machine

how i imagine this circuit could be improved :
- achieve the perfect magnetic balance. This is as i imagine a state when the rotating plate in the middle will not try to stick in to a certain position. It will continuesly rotate without having a very strong lockdown position. This will ensure a close to 1:1 mechanical to electrical conversion if the ferite rods will not try to change magnetic state( heat up ).
- improve the back EMF separation circuit. Try to do some math for the breakpoint of diodes and transistors. Make sure you will manage to break the resonant circuit (R L C )
- make sure you give enough time for the coils to demagnetize. Not sure where this energy will be drawn from. Your best case is heat ( i just read documents ) maybe switching to a new source (like ground grounding )
- the ferite core details might be important. If this gets heated then it is not good at all.

The devil is in the details. The number of coils / magnets, there should be no state 0 of this device, it should be in perfect balance, the spacing between magnets, coils needs to get close to perfection. One coil will always build up EMF while the other will try to deplete.

But note that a perfect balanced device will run for quite a while from the initial input energy. Think about a pendulum clock that can run for a day or so from 1 kick. So, to test out the gain, you should have a strong as possible consumer (lightbulb) that will not kill the looping device.

PS : i'm a programer that spends all day debugging issues. My job is to be an analist and not a physician. I try to see the multiple aproaches and try to get the common part of the circuits described on this forum. Try to eliminate the nonsense parts and get the main idea.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scotty1 on May 11, 2011, 09:59:29 AM
Hi all. Just a note on the DC2DC converter.
It was someone on this thread who told Romero to get the DC converter!!!
He didn't have it in his earlier tests...it was suggested to him by us!

I wish the latest events didn't happen.....but I think I will make a rep as well.
Another thing to note is that there is no real need for any driving coils. Any prime mover would do because the output is regulated, so i think builders should make the rotor/stators and  gen coils first and make some running tests. It will save lots of time.
All we need to do is tune the machine so that we get output under load without acting on the prime mover.
The tinkering will be in setting the coil spacing and the biasing magnets....a little sigh when thinking about that.  ;D
Cheers.
Scotty.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 10:24:04 AM
I wonder why Sterling Allen wasn't all over this one? Does anyone else find that weird?
Maybe Sterling Allen could see something we don't.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Aedini on May 11, 2011, 10:24:10 AM
Its a clear as day the  battery lead is the coax supply from the DC inverter.  If you ever stripped back a laptop supply you see the same wire. Its SHIELDED coax because its a switching inverter and is RF noisy and there are inline chokes fitted near the inverter also.

Oh wait that might be an AA battery with some black tape around it...oh bugger.:)

PS make sure you find some nice cores otherwise this ain't going to work. Its the very reason Muller went in search of special black Amorphous sand. However in recent years high power Switching PSU's require very high permeability cores some are 100 or 1000 times better than standard ferrite so no need to go looking for black sand.
I was able to get amorphous metals,
And can be the size of the data produced by my heart
But I can not determine: the effect of amorphous metal is indeed beyond the ferrite.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 11, 2011, 10:36:40 AM
@ Tudi,
that was an very fine analysis of the problems ... and give to think about this.. tks

@scotty.
This DC/DC Converter to use is fully NONSENSE and to complicated, also with minimus 10 % losts.

It give more and EASIER WAYs, to regulate the input and putput voltages, drive up and to hold the optimum of rotating speed.

Possibly: No inverters . no semiconductors needs

Pese 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 11, 2011, 10:47:38 AM
There is problem with getting cores, in Europe.
Those average Joe's ferrite rods that everyone offers are crap, they are not meant for high flux operation.
I'm not into combo-core from toroids also because hole in the middle would offer "parasitic" flux path.
I guess best option is try to localize I parts from EI or other core types that are made from proper material, for example Sendust.
If anyone has had success with getting proper stuff in Europe please tell.

Possible shapes in order of preference:
rod (at least 10mm diam, 20mm length)
block
plate (can be stacked to form a block)

Materials in order of preference:
- Sendust or other high saturation point,
low eddy loss material
- ferrite meant for power applications,
with low eddy loss

And again, tinkering with steel bolts and laminations is *pointless*. Seems it cannot be said enough times :)

STEEL BOLT IN AC APPLICATION = SHORTED EXTRA WINDING ON TRANSFORMER

Request for admins to really try to cut the crap on this thread.
Also everyone, please learn to reply without including whole original post...
We have extremely poor Signal To Noise ratio here :D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2011, 10:48:14 AM
Hi folks, I fired up my setup with just the 5 coil/cores, only one driving coil in repulsion, just to see if it would spin up to a decent rpm.
At 12 volts it's probably around 500 rpm, though with using the reed switch, the pulse on time may be too long or the 24 gauge wire may be drawing too much amperage as the coil/core is getting rather hot.
Of course it could be the steel bolt, though I've had similar steel bolts run cold to the touch in other pulse motors.
So my guess is too much amps for this coil.
It was drawing 700 milliamps no load, and when I shorted one coil it only rose about 50 milliamps.
Anyway, this was just to see if it would even spin up properly.
Though of course, eventually I will get get ferrite cores or equivalent.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: aircore on May 11, 2011, 11:01:12 AM
Hi bolt
You talking: "make sure you find some nice cores otherwise this ain't going to work. Its the very reason Muller went in search of special black Amorphous sand. However in recent years high power Switching PSU's require very high permeability cores some are 100 or 1000 times better than standard ferrite so no need to go looking for black sand"

Here: amorphous alloy core
If the use of amorphous alloy core material, the effect can be completely beyond the ferrite does it?

Hi Romerouk:
   I was able to get amorphous alloys, But also in accordance with the requirements and the size of my production, If I use it to make the coil core, Will get better effect?
 
   The following are commonly used in magnetic parameters of comparison:
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 11, 2011, 11:14:25 AM
BTW Aedini did NOT get amorphous stuff, I explained it here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg285258#msg285258
Seems that chinese just have problem with terminology.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 11:27:42 AM
I just bought that DC converter from Maplin and opened. The circuit takes all space inside, leaves no room for a battery.If the circuit is removed will be removed with the voltage switch too as is soldered direct on the board. If there is a battery is not there.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 11:35:16 AM
Im not speaking about what Romero did, but there is many ways for "replicators",
For example with Supercapacitor 58.33 Farads with a maximum voltage of 15V and maximum energy storage of 5133 Joules at a cutoff voltage of 7.0V ... this allows the SC to power a hypothetical 5W load for 17.11 minutes or a 20W load for 4.28 minutes. When combined with power supply like the HESC104, HESC-SER, or HPSC104-SER, the result is a “no Battery” uninterrupted power supply (UPS) complete with 4A charger and power management features capable of supplying short term power to a system for a set period of time until a proper shutdown is completed and/or main power is restored.
Is it difficult to change the cover of CAP???
May be  ::)
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 11, 2011, 11:40:12 AM
thanks Tudi, that was a very comprehensive and considered reply

maybe you have now started the 'ball rolling' (or the 'rotor turning'?) with the input of some theory into this thread?

to advance theory we need more facts

we've had so little actual performance data from Romero (just one unscaled scope shot of a single genr. coil response, and some meter shots) that it's very difficult to get a feel for the characteristics of the device, so far

i think this will change as people start to make progress with their builds and can feed back more comprehensive data

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 11, 2011, 11:43:14 AM
Im not speaking about what Romero did, but there is many ways for "replicators",
For example with Supercapacitor 58.33 Farads with a maximum voltage of 15V and maximum energy storage of 5133 Joules at a cutoff voltage of 7.0V ... this allows the SC to power a hypothetical 5W load for 17.11 minutes or a 20W load for 4.28 minutes. When combined with power supply like the HESC104, HESC-SER, or HPSC104-SER, the result is a “no Battery” uninterrupted power supply (UPS) complete with 4A charger and power management features capable of supplying short term power to a system for a set period of time until a proper shutdown is completed and/or main power is restored.
Is it difficult to change the cover of CAP???
May be  ::)
cheers,
khabe
what is the size of such a cap ??

IT IS BIGGER than an battery  holding same capacity. .
it is sure that no things loke this, must be used fpr running over long time
(because less than 100% efficency)
GP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 11:48:45 AM
Size is similar to this big cap on the video, as well as two bolt connectors on the top  ::)
Only coverage is different,
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gauschor on May 11, 2011, 11:51:58 AM
If this guy was for real, don't you think he would have posted the plans on a site like this before showing the entire world?

That's exactly what I would do too. I'd present my invention (if I had anything) on this website first, like many others because it's internationally one of the most well known pages for alternative energy. Good day, Mr. Troll.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 12:09:47 PM
I do not see any problem to use SUPERCAPs, even when low voltage, what are much cheaper, you can only speak that there are 300 turns and appr. 12V output, but in reality you have just 3V and you use step-up, switch-mode DC/DC converter. Now when you need to rebuild it for "small capacitors", you will buy really small size ones from sellers from China  ::) Why to spend a big money for goofy believers  8)
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=supercapacitor+&_sacat=0&_odkw=super+capacitor+16V&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 12:12:06 PM
@khabe
are this supercapacitors 15volts? can you show a link?
that link before is for 2.5 volts
Diameter 1.3 inches (33 mm)
Length 2.44 inches (62 mm)
Tab width .25 inches (6.4 mm)
Tab height .23 inches (5.9 mm)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 11, 2011, 12:20:35 PM
INFO....

FUL INFO RomeroUK  HD VIDEO , FOTO  my syte ....

free dowload ,save,copy...

PEACE.....

http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/muller_dynamo/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1lBhkZI7Ds
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lasersaber on May 11, 2011, 12:24:23 PM
Here is what I have so far.  Now I am waiting UPS and the mail service.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 11, 2011, 12:31:14 PM
I just watched again and indeed at 2:52 to 2:55 where he connects the red cable, which is ALSO connected to the negative, to the positive of the battery for about 8 seconds (which should definitely melt the cable). See pics.

I don't know what this means. I am not saying it is a fake, actually I think it is for real, but something is wrong here.

Fausto.


Plengo, it looks to me simply that the output cable of the DC convertor is co-ax type. The outer black sheath has been removed for a couple of inches to reveal the outer wrap (made of aluminium foil or tin coated copper) conductor and the inner insulated conducter.

The outer wrap conducter has been unferled from surrounding the inner conductor and then retwisted and connected to a common negative on the battery.

It's colour is almost the same in the photo as the insulation on the inner conductor so it it gives the misleading impression that, from the red wire to the battery negative there is a direct connection via the white wire.

As both wires exit the black cable sheath, the whitish looking wire on the left connecting to the red wire is the inner conductor (still in it's insulated coating) and the whitish/greyish looking wire on the right is the twisted outer conductor connected to the negative.

Left and right are two separate conductors emerging from inside the single black cable from the DC converter output.

The inner conductor has been connected to the red wire shown which is only sitting on top of the black probe. It is not connected to the negative of the battery.

Cheers ..... at the least that's the way my bad eyes see it.

P.S. - Just been reading back through some posts and it looks like this had already been answered.
I hope I'm just as late keeping up when it comes to my own funeral !!  :P

Cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 12:38:16 PM
@khabe
are this supercapacitors 15volts? can you show a link?
that link before is for 2.5 volts
Diameter 1.3 inches (33 mm)
Length 2.44 inches (62 mm)
Tab width .25 inches (6.4 mm)
Tab height .23 inches (5.9 mm)

You even do not need 16 or 24 volts, the only thing you need is the tommyrot talking,
And of course you can change one big supercap to number of smaller sizes  - rersult will be the same or even better ;)
In reality your coil (pair of) unit gives out only few volts and you use DC-DC step up converter to get 12v,
Others will buy a lot of stuff, will spend the last family money for superalloy, for Metglas and for etc ... and everyone will wonder "why my replication does not work?"  >:(
And of course you need to be very resentful when someone surmise about hidden batteries or about invisible wires ... you must to be good actor, bringed to tears and after that you need to to blab out to someone from forum, that "two men visited you and offered ... millions ... oh sorry, I have no rights anymore to continue with public discussion.
cheers,
khabe

NB !!!
I do not accuse anyone - I just abridge one of scenario how it could be done, the OU  ::)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 12:52:50 PM
To be honest Im not familiar with Supercaps (or Ultracapacitors, does not matter how you call it) - I have none  :-[
http://www.ecnmag.com/Articles/2009/09/Supercapacitors-Replace-Batteries-with-Help-of-3mm-×-3mm-Charger/
if not open then just Google -> Supercapacitors Replace Batteries with Help of 3mm × 3mm Charger
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hoptoad on May 11, 2011, 01:11:02 PM
To be honest Im not familiar with Supercaps (or Ultracapacitors, does not matter how you call it) - I have none  :-[
http://www.ecnmag.com/Articles/2009/09/Supercapacitors-Replace-Batteries-with-Help-of-3mm-×-3mm-Charger/
if not open then just Google -> Supercapacitors Replace Batteries with Help of 3mm × 3mm Charger
cheers,
khabe

Interesting and pertinent article.   Link didn't work but search did.

Cheers
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: erikbuch on May 11, 2011, 01:39:30 PM
Anybody have observed the speed on this thing is much slower in the video where he is running it "suspended" compared to the other videos?

Best regards
erikbuch
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: k4zep on May 11, 2011, 01:40:15 PM
Your're right. Please, read my post before this one. I am with you. Let's build. My parts are on the way.

We need ALSO to look at every detail of this video and evidence presented. We will dissect it many times since it is not an easy thing to come up with an OU device. So, with that being said, I will probably show many more pictures and ask more questions about it.

Not to be skeptical at all, after all you can see my videos on Youtube and easily see I am crazy believer in OU and a experimentalist. It is simply necessary to honestly discuss ALL the parameters and eliminate doubt. It is through this process that we learn.

In my case, I raised an issue and Now I learned how the DC is connected back to the battery which I was not able to see before, BUT it took my honest open criticism of the my not understanding of the problem to get it solved.

Peace,

Fausto.

And peace be to you Fausto, NO Problem.  Keep at it!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scratchrobot on May 11, 2011, 01:44:44 PM
Today i opened 2 computer power supply's and in one of them i found 4 of the ferrite cores romero was using, 6mm x 15mm. The other supply had 2 cores of 6mm x 30mm, don't know if i can cut them in half?
So if you want the same cores he was using find some old computer power supply.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 02:09:07 PM
You even do not need 16 or 24 volts, the only thing you need is the tommyrot talking,
And of course you can change one big supercap to number of smaller sizes  - rersult will be the same or even better ;)
In reality your coil (pair of) unit gives out only few volts and you use DC-DC step up converter to get 12v,
Others will buy a lot of stuff, will spend the last family money for superalloy, for Metglas and for etc ... and everyone will wonder "why my replication does not work?"  >:(
And of course you need to be very resentful when someone surmise about hidden batteries or about invisible wires ... you must to be good actor, bringed to tears and after that you need to to blab out to someone from forum, that "two men visited you and offered ... millions ... oh sorry, I have no rights anymore to continue with public discussion.
cheers,
khabe

NB !!!
I do not accuse anyone - I just abridge one of scenario how it could be done, the OU  ::)

Khabe,
stop the discussion with the supercapacitor.
There was no one.
ALso in the first video he has only the coils output directly via the bridge rectifiers to the lamp
and it was also 24 Watts out and only about 11 Watts input
with NO capacitor !
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: scratchrobot on May 11, 2011, 02:12:45 PM
well, whatever :) call it litz, in UK is called Stranded Enamelled Copper -
Bunched copper conductors each strand individually enamelled
http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu
Ref: ST01250007-500

No more 7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu Ref: ST01250007-500 on http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html

Did they sold out already ? It was there a few days back when i checked  ???
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 11, 2011, 02:13:13 PM
Hi David70,

Would you mind taking a close-up picture of the opened converter, please?
Would like to see it, not because I do not believe you but to see how big heat sink is involved (I suppose it is a switch-mode converter).
(You can attach max file individual size of 500kB here, it is more than enough for a closeup, I think.)

Thanks,  Gyula


I just bought that DC converter from Maplin and opened. The circuit takes all space inside, leaves no room for a battery.If the circuit is removed will be removed with the voltage switch too as is soldered direct on the board. If there is a battery is not there.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 11, 2011, 02:22:15 PM
greetings pop-pickers!

(... a little bit of nostalgia there, for sad old Brits like myself  ;)  )


the main supply switch is NOT at the position shown in the schematic!
(page 1 this thread, as at 12:33 GMT 11 May '11)

when Romero switches off the device at the end of the "self-run test 1" vid (18:48), the DC converter is no longer connected to the joint output of the FWBRs - but it is STILL CONNECTED to the buffer cap

IF there was a battery in the cap then it would be STILL CONNECTED to the motor drive when Romero disconnects the FWBRs!

yet, instantly he disconnects the FWBRs (at 18:48) you can hear the rotor start to spin down

the FWBR o/p is across the only 2 connections on the buffer cap, so IF there was a battery inside the cap, then we'd then have to claim that Romero has also hidden an extra circuit into the cap which detects that the battery terminal voltage has dropped slightly (because no i/p now from FWBRs) and therefore disconnects the battery from those same 2 terminals

of course, at start-up, such a circuit would then need to be able to detect that the FWBRs have just been connected and connect the battery to those same 2 terminals again

so to avoid extra sensing complexity, our 'Cap-Spoofing' circuit would probably need to be continuously connected to the 'hidden' battery (or have a 2nd battery available) so that it could re-connect the main battery to the terminals again

got to admire this Romero guy's ingenuity & dedication to spoof...

we can see there's already plenty of work gone into building the Dynamo - but just look at what he's had to achieve to make a battery look like a cap, eh?  ;)

the whole 'battery-in-cap' objection starts to look just a tad, shall we say, 'far-fetched'?!?


OK, so getting back to reality...

the DC Conv was switched to 12V at ~18:10 (DVM shows 12V)

Romero states that at 12V DC conv setting he reads ~15V at buffer cap

energy for 15V in 47000uF cap (at switch-off, 18:48) ~= 5.3 Joules = 5.3 Watt-seconds

at 12V i/p the motor draws 12W

so - at switch-off, with 5.3 Watt-seconds in the cap, and even IF the DC converter could convert it all (which it can't!) then the cap can only supply enough energy to drive the motor for less than HALF a second!

it's pretty clear, therefore, that the ONLY function of the buffer cap is to filter the FWBR o/p waveform and provide steady, smoothed DC

ie. when Romero disconnects the FWBRs - that baby is just going to spin down
(taking about 100 seconds - replicators please note - good bearings - low cogging - nice work Romero!)


this same argument applies to a SuperCap - IF there was a SuperCap hidden inside the 47000uF case, then it would have to get disconnected by the same sort of circuit i just described - otherwise the rotor would NOT spin down in 100 seconds


my conclusion?

Romero's self-run motor is ONLY getting rotated by the energy obtained from the 7 generator coil-pairs


let the replications continue!
np

...my drink's a Guinness, thanks - Slainthe!  :)


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 02:47:00 PM
@Baroutologos
that was bad ideea....
I was reading all posts for yesterday and I am finding this one strange, bad ideea what?
I am looking before this post and I can see Baroutologos post talking nice there, nothing bad, the post is edited too, maybe there was something before and removed after.
Strange is that before Romero's last post he had some other posts, I think like 2 hours difference, and no sign of leaving, even showing picture with components for the next build.
I think something happend in between this 2 hours that made him change everything.

Gyula,
I need to find the cable to connect the phone to the pc, I have taken pictures already but no cable.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 02:50:09 PM
Hi David70,

Would you mind taking a close-up picture of the opened converter, please?
Would like to see it, not because I do not believe you but to see how big heat sink is involved (I suppose it is a switch-mode converter).
(You can attach max file individual size of 500kB here, it is more than enough for a closeup, I think.)

Thanks,  Gyula

Hi Gyula and David70
it's okay I can do it now, I have one to,  I just need to get past the security screws ???
why would you put security screws on a DC converter  >:(
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 11, 2011, 02:54:52 PM
I was reading all posts for yesterday and I am finding this one strange, bad ideea what?
I am looking before this post and I can see Baroutologos post talking nice there, nothing bad, the post is edited too, maybe there was something before and removed after.
[...]

hi David

Romero & Baroutologos were in regular contact on Romero's forum (apparently now pulled) - so maybe Romero was replying to something which Baroutologos had mentioned via another channel?

just an idea

[EDIT - apologies - just seen that my post co-incided with Chef's!]
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 11, 2011, 02:57:47 PM
Ok powercat and David70, thanks.

David70,

I can recall what you noticed because I saw the unedited text from Baroutologus.  He included the link to RomeroUK's own forum and at that time point Romero had already too many mails to handle so this is why Romero said it was a bad idea. Then Baroutologus editied out the link in his post.

Gyula

I just noticed Chef also answered this, ok.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 03:05:35 PM
Okay for those who want to look inside Pandora's box  ;D  I mean the DC to DC converter.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 11, 2011, 03:13:08 PM
Dear powercat,

Thank you, though this is not the exact type Romero used I do believe his type is very similar inside because of the mechanical sizes. His type was adjustable from 1.5V to up 12V, your type is designed for upconverting, for running laptops for instance from the car battery.

rgds,  Gyula

EDIT here is the link I gave to Romero to buy the converter for looping:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639   

I suggested this to him here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284263#msg284263  and Romero answered
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284270#msg284270
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 03:14:17 PM
powercat
I think yours is another model going to 24volts, the one I bought today is going upto 12volts
Title: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: sterlinga on May 11, 2011, 03:28:08 PM
It has been brought to my attention that this demonstration was a hoax.

Question, could the perpetrator be criminally charged?  Or would this be a civil matter?  What would be the charge?  Who would /could bring the charge?

If you know the answer, would you mind Cc'ing me to my email via sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com

We're working up a story for this for PESN and want to include that information to help deter any future hoaxes.

Thanks
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 03:31:55 PM
Sorry about the size issue, I always get bigger than I need,
I learned a long time ago that inverters and converters are much more efficient when they don't get hot and stressed out.
My mains inverter is 1000 W but I never draw more than 300 W, the inverter only gets warm and the fan never comes on, since I have been doing this my batteries last much longer ;D
(I live on solar power most of the time)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 11, 2011, 03:35:36 PM
There is no proof this is a hoax. Do you have proof?

For civil claim there must be a breach of contract. Did you have a performance contract with him?

For criminal claim  there must be an injured party. Are you injured or suffered harm?

Stop wasting people time with this hoax stuff. Its real enough to be replicated then you can see for you self. All the information was given freely and open source. Take it or leave it.
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: citfta on May 11, 2011, 03:38:11 PM
Wouldn't you have to prove it was a hoax or at least have some evidence it was a hoax?  Other than some wild speculations on this thread do you have any real evidence this was a hoax?  I think you are wasting your time.

It has been brought to my attention that this demonstration was a hoax.

Question, could the perpetrator be criminally charged?  Or would this be a civil matter?  What would be the charge?  Who would /could bring the charge?

If you know the answer, would you mind Cc'ing me to my email via sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com

We're working up a story for this for PESN and want to include that information to help deter any future hoaxes.

Thanks
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 11, 2011, 03:47:56 PM
according to Mr. Alan we shall all be all have criminal charges. At one point in time many people posted their results and findings, good or bad. No one is forced to replicate or do anything.
Muller and others had lots of people replycating their devices, and never succeeded, that means criminal penalties against them?
Can we force someone to disclose all findings? Yes/No ?
This way we will better stop posting anything before someone takes this ideea seriously.
Personally I tought that Mr Alan is for progress and freedom not against it.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mondrasek on May 11, 2011, 03:55:23 PM
Companies and corporation fight each other to hire the TALENT that are the experts in the fields of intelect and technology that they offer for sale in their products and services.  So an entity that wished to capitalize on Romerouk's find would not want to purchase the device.  They would want to hire HIM.  It is through his expertise that they would have the best chance to be first to market with devices that utilize the technology he has harnessed.

If you assume also that Romerouk is the upstanding fellow he appears to be, working with such a company would be the fastest way to HELP the people that need the benefits of this technology.  Helping us "nutters" to have personal generators on our workbenches is a nice validation, but only a delay in getting this into products that can help the world.  So by joining a reputable company he could get financial security and further his desires to pursue inventing and propagating his visions.  Who wouldn't jump on that?

I hope the reality is more like this scenario, or that he has just stepped off the stage for now for his own peace of mind.  He has definitely given enough information to the public to ensure it is not lost.  So no "buyout" scenarios with intentions to suppress makes sense.

Now, back to work, all of you.  The replicators have my admiration and gratitude.  Please post everything you learn, including the failures.

Thanks,

M.
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: teslaalset on May 11, 2011, 04:01:31 PM
It has been brought to my attention that this demonstration was a hoax.

Question, could the perpetrator be criminally charged?  Or would this be a civil matter?  What would be the charge?  Who would /could bring the charge?

If you know the answer, would you mind Cc'ing me to my email via sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com

We're working up a story for this for PESN and want to include that information to help deter any future hoaxes.

Thanks

Sterlinga, don't rush with your conclusions this is a hoax.
It's not clear what happened. Hold your horses for a while.
It could be RomeroUK was put under pressure to declare this is a fake.
Replicators here have sufficient data to replicate.
A few weeks from now will clear up the fog on this probably.

b.t.w. you made a misspelling on your e-mail address
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: teslaalset on May 11, 2011, 04:11:57 PM
Deleted by Teslaalset
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 04:16:48 PM
Companies and corporation fight each other to hire the TALENT that are the experts in the fields of intelect and technology that they offer for sale in their products and services.  So an entity that wished to capitalize on Romerouk's find would not want to purchase the device.  They would want to hire HIM.  It is through his expertise that they would have the best chance to be first to market with devices that utilize the technology he has harnessed.

If you assume also that Romerouk is the upstanding fellow he appears to be, working with such a company would be the fastest way to HELP the people that need the benefits of this technology.  Helping us "nutters" to have personal generators on our workbenches is a nice validation, but only a delay in getting this into products that can help the world.  So by joining a reputable company he could get financial security and further his desires to pursue inventing and propagating his visions.  Who wouldn't jump on that?

I hope the reality is more like this scenario, or that he has just stepped off the stage for now for his own peace of mind.  He has definitely given enough information to the public to ensure it is not lost.  So no "buyout" scenarios with intentions to suppress makes sense.

Now, back to work, all of you.  The replicators have my admiration and gratitude.  Please post everything you learn, including the failures.

Thanks,

M.

Can u give an example of one free energy device that has gotten this financial security. I can give up to 10 that have been surpressed thru this model u r proposing.
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 04:17:03 PM
It has been brought to my attention that this demonstration was a hoax.

Question, could the perpetrator be criminally charged?  Or would this be a civil matter?  What would be the charge?  Who would /could bring the charge?

If you know the answer, would you mind Cc'ing me to my email via sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com

We're working up a story for this for PESN and want to include that information to help deter any future hoaxes.

Thanks
WHAT IS THIS!
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: teslaalset on May 11, 2011, 04:19:30 PM
WHAT IS THIS!

Sterlinga is the owner of a quite influencial and informative website on new energy technology.
http://peswiki.com
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 04:20:49 PM
Khabe,
stop the discussion with the supercapacitor.
There was no one.
ALso in the first video he has only the coils output directly via the bridge rectifiers to the lamp
and it was also 24 Watts out and only about 11 Watts input
with NO capacitor !

Why to anger, Stefan  :o
I did repeat several times I do not speak about Romero, I just thought about how its possible to fake,
just need to change the label (the name and  figures)  and SuperCap looks like common electrolytic cap  ::)
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 04:22:53 PM
Why to anger, Stefan  :o
I did repeat several times I do not speak about Romero, I just thought about how its possible to fake,
just need to change the label (the name and  figures)  and SuperCap looks like common electrolytic cap  ::)
cheers,
khabe

Then figure out how he did the first video with the lamp directly connected to the rectifier
output without any DC2DC converter...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 11, 2011, 04:41:59 PM
[...]
I do not speak about Romero, I just thought about how its possible to fake,
just need to change the label (the name and  figures)  and SuperCap looks like common electrolytic cap  ::)
[...]
khabe

i disagree, khabe:

the main supply switch is NOT at the position shown in the schematic!
(page 1 this thread, as at 12:33 GMT 11 May '11)

when Romero switches off the device at the end of the "self-run test 1" vid (18:48), the DC converter is no longer connected to the joint output of the FWBRs - but it is STILL CONNECTED to the buffer cap

IF there was a battery in the cap then it would be STILL CONNECTED to the motor drive when Romero disconnects the FWBRs!

yet, instantly he disconnects the FWBRs (at 18:48) you can hear the rotor start to spin down

the FWBR o/p is across the only 2 connections on the buffer cap, so IF there was a battery inside the cap, then we'd then have to claim that Romero has also hidden an extra circuit into the cap which detects that the battery terminal voltage has dropped slightly (because no i/p now from FWBRs) and therefore disconnects the battery from those same 2 terminals

of course, at start-up, such a circuit would then need to be able to detect that the FWBRs have just been connected and connect the battery to those same 2 terminals again

so to avoid extra sensing complexity, our 'Cap-Spoofing' circuit would probably need to be continuously connected to the 'hidden' battery (or have a 2nd battery available) so that it could re-connect the main battery to the terminals again
[...]
the whole 'battery-in-cap' objection starts to look just a tad, shall we say, 'far-fetched'?!?
[...]
the DC Conv was switched to 12V at ~18:10 (DVM shows 12V)

Romero states that at 12V DC conv setting he reads ~15V at buffer cap

energy for 15V in 47000uF cap (at switch-off, 18:48) ~= 5.3 Joules = 5.3 Watt-seconds

at 12V i/p the motor draws 12W

so - at switch-off, with 5.3 Watt-seconds in the cap, and even IF the DC converter could convert it all (which it can't!) then the cap can only supply enough energy to drive the motor for less than HALF a second!

it's pretty clear, therefore, that the ONLY function of the buffer cap is to filter the FWBR o/p waveform and provide steady, smoothed DC

ie. when Romero disconnects the FWBRs - that baby is just going to spin down
(taking about 100 seconds - replicators please note - good bearings - low cogging - nice work Romero!)

this same argument applies to a SuperCap - IF there was a SuperCap hidden inside the 47000uF case, then it would have to get disconnected by the same sort of circuit i just described - otherwise the rotor would NOT spin down in 100 seconds

from  link -->  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg285674#msg285674 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg285674#msg285674)
 

enough distractions - let's get back to work, eh?
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 04:42:36 PM
Companies and corporation fight each other to hire the TALENT that are the experts in the fields of intelect and technology that they offer for sale in their products and services.  So an entity that wished to capitalize on Romerouk's find would not want to purchase the device.  They would want to hire HIM.  It is through his expertise that they would have the best chance to be first to market with devices that utilize the technology he has harnessed.

If you assume also that Romerouk is the upstanding fellow he appears to be, working with such a company would be the fastest way to HELP the people that need the benefits of this technology.  Helping us "nutters" to have personal generators on our workbenches is a nice validation, but only a delay in getting this into products that can help the world.  So by joining a reputable company he could get financial security and further his desires to pursue inventing and propagating his visions.  Who wouldn't jump on that?

I hope the reality is more like this scenario, or that he has just stepped off the stage for now for his own peace of mind.  He has definitely given enough information to the public to ensure it is not lost.  So no "buyout" scenarios with intentions to suppress makes sense.

Now, back to work, all of you.  The replicators have my admiration and gratitude.  Please post everything you learn, including the failures.

Thanks,

M.

Are you serious or is it some kind of excentric humor  ::)
When you are serious, then ... oh dear ... need to be hurry and ask doctor to give some pills :o
Talent ... experts ... intelect ... technology ... oh boy, what kind of bathos!!! .... mhh, this is very serious case,
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magneticitist on May 11, 2011, 04:48:26 PM
on a negative note, in the video where its running suspended it looks to me as if its going entirely too slow to be working in self-run the same way it was displayed before being suspended.

on a positive note, in the original video he has an insane amount of excess if you factor in obvious losses. the information he has already provided should be more than enough to create a replication if someone can afford the parts.
with the info hes given id think this replication would at least show a unity if done correctly, assuming it was poorly replicated. seems like his results are far too efficient for at least a "ballpark" to not easily be reached with a few tries.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mondrasek on May 11, 2011, 04:51:10 PM
Can u give an example of one free energy device that has gotten this financial security.
I have not seen one device that was ever shown to be "free energy" where enough details were disclosed so that successful and demonstrated replications were produced.
I can give up to 10 that have been surpressed thru this model u r proposing.
Go ahead and try to back that statement up with facts.  Name any 10 where enough details were disclosed so that successful and demonstrated replications were produced, that were then successfully suppressed.

The suppression theories can only be a reality if the device/technology to be suppressed is NOT disclosed to a large enough audience.  RomeroUK made sure to disclose that level of detail before he "disappeared".  I, for one, hope he has been offered the chance to bring the technology to market sooner, or just is waiting for the replicators to catch up.  You can believe whatever you want.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 04:53:05 PM
Then figure out how he did the first video with the lamp directly connected to the rectifier
output with any DC2DC converter...

I have to hash over one time more:
I did not speak about Romero and hes device,
I just did fantasise how it could be done - to build any such kind of UO device and present on the video as successful performance :o
with due respect,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mondrasek on May 11, 2011, 04:56:55 PM
Are you serious or is it some kind of excentric humor  ::)
When you are serious, then ... oh dear ... need to be hurry and ask doctor to give some pills :o
Talent ... experts ... intelect ... technology ... oh boy, what kind of bathos!!! .... mhh, this is very serious case,
cheers,
khabe
Quite serious.  I work for a high tech company in a field with relatively few competitors.  We guard our talent against competitors.  We will not post a company organization chart for this reason:  Recruiting firms would use it to try and convince our talent to go to the competition.

And when anyone does leave, they usually end up working for the competition.  We hire from our competitors all the time.
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: i_ron on May 11, 2011, 04:58:04 PM
WHAT IS THIS!

Sterling got badly burned on the mylow thing and so is just trying to cover his ass here with this stupid remark.

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lumen on May 11, 2011, 05:01:26 PM
I just finished reading every post in this thread and as hard as it is to believe a real OU device to exist, I believe RomeroUK's device is real. The design may be different enough from the Muller Dynamo because of the increase in output that it can be Patented. In view of this, it is more than likely that someone with money (the rich get richer) made an offer that he accepted. I hope he first gets a good lawyer since a device like this sold outright would be worth trillions a year! Royalties or limited use along with hundreds of millions up front may also be an option. Romero needs to look out for Romero first!

In any case, enough was posted to build this for yourself as hobbyists without any future patent infringement.
I hope everyone continues on their projects to duplicate the device. Unless something different comes up, I plan to start my build this weekend.
Cheers!




Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 11, 2011, 05:10:46 PM
Quite serious.  I work for a high tech company in a field with relatively few competitors.  We guard our talent against competitors.  We will not post a company organization chart for this reason:  Recruiting firms would use it to try and convince our talent to go to the competition.

And when anyone does leave, they usually end up working for the competition.  We hire from our competitors all the time.

Yeah, now it is more understandable at least for me
and no bathoses anymore  ::)
Surelly I was not to offend you , just my style of joke   ;)
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 11, 2011, 05:11:25 PM
  I know Sterling Allan personally.  Decent fellow, but I did not like his post claiming a hoax by RomeroUK --without a shred of evidence presented.  And it almost sounded like a threat of "civil" or "criminal penalties", ie. a Lawsuit.  And he spoke of an embarassing article at his website -- but who will be embarrassed in the end?

 Such talk by Sterling unfortunately puts a damper on efforts to pursue alternative energy and I don't like it.

I sent Sterling an email, will let you know what he responds.

Posting at OUResearch this morning:
"OMG Stirling is talking about going after him in the courts for wasting peoples time to deter similar future hoaxes, and they have his address, what a mess"
In response to Sterling's post here...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 11, 2011, 05:14:53 PM
on a negative note, in the video where its running suspended it looks to me as if its going entirely too slow to be working in self-run the same way it was displayed before being suspended.
[...]

hi Magneticist

iirc Romero first tried to video his device suspended from a cord - he reported that it swung about too wildly to make a reasonable video so he ended up trying to video it in his hand

another member (neptune?) made an unconnected comment much earlier, i believe, giving a warning to replicators about possible dangers when trying to move a reasonably heavy spinning disc because of gyroscopic forces

i also thought it sounded like the motor was running slower, but i'm thinking perhaps Romero switched the DC converter to a lower voltage purposefully to make it easier to hold the device steady with one hand whilst trying to video it with the other

seem reasonable?
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 11, 2011, 05:20:39 PM
@lumen . In my opinion this device can not be patented as it has already been open sourced and the details published .
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: abdlquadri on May 11, 2011, 05:37:42 PM
Sterlinga is the owner of a quite influencial and informative website on new energy technology.
http://peswiki.com
Thats why I am worried about his post
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lumen on May 11, 2011, 05:43:40 PM
In my opinion this device can not be patented as it has already been open sourced and the details published .

I wish that were true, but just because you show your device and how it works in public does not mean you forfeit your property or intellectual rights. Unless he makes claim that he gives this to the people the forum only works as proof as the actual inventor.

I'm not a Lawyer but I'm sure the money this would be worth could buy new laws!
(like the rest of them we have)


 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: merlynmetal on May 11, 2011, 05:57:59 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted a link to ferrite rods available from Farnell:

http://bg.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=1002386&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=ferrite+rod&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial

http://www.ferroxcube.com/prod/assets/sfmatgra_frnt.pdf

Please someone advise if these are OK for the replication and what is the difference with those pulled from a PC PSU used by Romero.
I found a source for 9x0.10mm and 12x0.10mm Litz wire which I hope will do the job.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 06:09:20 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted a link to ferrite rods available from Farnell:

http://bg.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=1002386&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=ferrite+rod&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial

http://www.ferroxcube.com/prod/assets/sfmatgra_frnt.pdf

Please someone advise if these are OK for the replication and what is the difference with those pulled from a PC PSU used by Romero.
I found a source for 9x0.10mm and 12x0.10mm Litz wire which I hope will do the job.

About the wire, just go with coils, that have about 5 Ohms DC resistance with 300 windings.

I wonder, if one could not just use loudspeaker lowpass or highpassfilter coils
on ferrite cores...
These are probably much easier to get preassembled.

I think the only tuning required is to get the magnetic flux to
switch back and forth inside the ferrite rods of the coils.

So I guess also a solid state design could be made.

We only have to fiqure out what needs the lowest
energy input to switch back and forth the magnetic flux
inside a ferrite rod core of a big coil
from 2 or more stator magnets
attached with small airgaps to the ferrite core.

Maybe something like 2 torroidal cores in series
180 degrees out of polarity as in the ORBO design
will do the trick as BackEMF or CounterEMF induction into them will just cancel out...??

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 06:13:10 PM
By the way,
I found the complete name, adress and telephone numbers and a picture
of RomeroUK via a little Internet searching.

I tried to call him,
but he does not answer the phone.
Maybe he is still on work and not yet home.
I will try again this evening .

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: sterlinga on May 11, 2011, 06:22:39 PM
It has been brought to my attention that this demonstration was a hoax.

Question, could the perpetrator be criminally charged?  Or would this be a civil matter?  What would be the charge?  Who would /could bring the charge?

If you know the answer, would you mind Cc'ing me to my email via sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com

We're working up a story for this for PESN and want to include that information to help deter any future hoaxes.

Thanks

I've been asked where I got that info.  It came from Romero himself in this message: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg285496#msg285496

As follows:

T H I S  W A S   A   B I G    F A K E,      S T O P  R E P L I C A T I N G
THIS IS MY LAST POST
World will be the same

SORRY!


Also, I got the following email from Romero:

From: RomeroUK
To: sterlingda...
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:37 AM
Subject: RomeroUK


Dear Mr Sterling,

 

I am sending this email after I saw your opinion on the forum.

First of all I do not have that device anymore, probably is destroyed, I have no idea and I don’t care anymore.

I have spent years in trying to do different things, replicating all sort of devices and spent lots of money for that.

This last week was a nightmare for me, you have no idea under what pressure I have been and how many people contacted me, warnings that I should keep quiet, people saying they run multimillion companies and want be to build for Africa,… and in the end, yesterday, I had a personal visit after leaving my day to day job.

I had the impression that I live in a free country but it was demonstrated that anything is possible, we will never move forward.

I am an IT guy and I thought that I have a good brain but now after that I even forgot simple passwords and things I use every day, this is how scared I am.

I have a family, kids and they are most important for me. I had a lot of problems home with my wife because this too, she never wanted me to publish any of my work, but I did, and it looks that I should have listen to her. Well, now I learned my lesson.

I have never asked anyone for money or invited them to do a copy of the device I built, I have only showed my results, no intention to harm anyone in any way.

All I want now is to enjoy the life I had before and forget about doing any more research, I don’t have the power to do that anymore.

I am not good for this kind of pressure, I already have hearth problems, it is not worth it.

I just hope that one day someone better than me will have the strength to go thru all this.

I have always stated that I have no intention to sell or do any public demonstrations, please check my posts on overunity forum.

 

This is the end I hope, I don’t want be contacted by any other people, I have no more info to share. All I had I posted free and it is better to be considered as not working.

 

Best Regards,

RomeroUK

 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: yssuraxu_697 on May 11, 2011, 06:29:43 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted a link to ferrite rods available from Farnell:

I would pick these:

FERRITE, ROD, 25X10MM
Material: 4B1

Looking at the specs it very good in terms of Eddy currents.
Saturation is low like it is always with ferrites. But if romerouk succeeded with "random" ferrite I guess these will do at least as good, just dont molest them with too powerful magnets and small airgap.

In any case much better than "cat in the bag" from PSUs. Maybe I'll order these too if no luck with Sendust etc.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 11, 2011, 06:29:46 PM
Ãœbersetzung von Deutsch nach Englisch

Which way do I take to regulate the Muller generator?

The generator produces more power after this high
Speed ​​is reached. An increase in output voltage (and power) will rotate the drive motor even faster, so this speed increase dangerous.

DC works with a regulation loss (mon. 10% and is an electronic device that will eventually be corrupted.


A simple rule is mechanically possible by the level of the coils.
(input or output, or both, of the magnetic disk
further away, as soon as this is spinning faster.
(Change in distance coils to spinning magnets)

In this way, it's easy to mechanically possible
the output voltage down, or the
Putting the drive motor speed, because the drive coil can be further from the magnet.

GOOGLE translating have help me. German source here:

POSSIBLY (?) it is an easy way to minimize some problems


------------------------
Welchen Weg nehme ich zum regulieren des Muller Generator ?

Der Generator erzeugt mehr Power, nachdem dieser hohe
Geschwindigkeit erreicht. Ein Ansteigen der Ausgangsspannung (und leistung) wird den Antriebsmotor noch schneller drehen lassen, sodass sich diese Geschwindigkeit gefährlich erhöht.

Eine DC Regulierung arbeitet mit Verlust  (mon. 10% und ist ein elektronisches device, das irgendwann fehlerhaft sein wird.


Eine EINFACHE REGELUNG, ist mechanisch möglich, indem man die Ebene die Spulen.
(Input oder Output, oder Beide, von der Magnetplatte
weiter entfernt, sobald diese sich schneller dreht.
(Change in distance coils to spinning magnets)

Auf diese Art ist es ganz einfach, mechanisch, möglich
die Ausgangsspannung down, oder die
Drehzahl des Antriebsmotors herunterzunehmen, weil die Antrieb-Spulen, weiter vom Magnet entfernt werden können.
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 06:30:55 PM
Here are a few useful ferrite rods I found on Ebay,
follow this link:

Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 11, 2011, 06:36:46 PM
I've been asked where I got that info.  It came from Romero himself in this message: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg285496#msg285496

As follows:

Also, I got the following email from Romero:

From: RomeroUK   [snip]

Thanks for responding, Sterling.  RomeroUK sounds sincere to me, but very frightened.  Very.


"yesterday, I had a personal visit after leaving my day to day job.

I had the impression that I live in a free country but it was demonstrated that anything is possible, we will never move forward.

I am an IT guy and I thought that I have a good brain but now after that I even forgot simple passwords and things I use every day, this is how scared I am.

I have a family, kids and they are most important for me. I had a lot of problems home with my wife because this too, she never wanted me to publish any of my work, but I did, and it looks that I should have listen to her. Well, now I learned my lesson."


I think this is why he said "fake" in his final parting post, don't you?  because he had a visit to his home and is now intimidated and frightened?  We are inventors, engineers -- not used to intimidation at our homes.

This is "coerced" testimony, not admissible as hard evidence.
But if you have REAL evidence that the device is a fake, I'd like to hear it.

Meanwhile, if you publish on your website that it is a fake without such firm evidence -- that would be unfair, my friend.  Also, pls note that replications  will come forth.  I'm hoping you will wait and see what the replications bring.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 11, 2011, 06:51:59 PM
@pese .I can see many ways to regulate this device . One way would be to use a suitable light bulb in series with the motor feed .I believe the resistance of a lightbulb increases with temperature , so it would regulate the motor current . A FUSE would also help in the motor circuit . Another simple way for home builders is a centrifugal governor [like steam engine] to switch motor on and off . Pese , I would like to ask you if you think this device works .
       The information from Stirlinga is very revealing . Saying that a thing should be considered as non working, is not the same thing as saying it does not work . Looks like the guy got scared off and maybe bought as well . Patenting will not stop us "rolling our own".Also a quote from Romerouk in his email to stirling ." I only showed my results ." We all saw what he showed . He showed a working machine .Note that he said this AFTER his claim it was a fake .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wopwops on May 11, 2011, 07:09:02 PM
Mylo, is that you?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 11, 2011, 07:11:16 PM
Mylo, is that you?

MyLow is a low class cockroach. He does not know Electronics. He only knows bar magnets and fishing lines. Oh, some bird species too...

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 11, 2011, 07:11:44 PM
@pese .I can see many ways to regulate this device . One war would be to use a suitable light bulb in series with the motor feed .I believe the resistance of a lightbulb increases with temperature , so it would regulate the motor current . A FUSE would also help in the motor circuit . Another simple way for home builders is a centrifugal governor [like steam engine] to switch motor on and off . Pese , I would like to ask you if you think this device works .
       The information from Stirlinga is very revealing . Saying that a thing should be considered as non working, is not the same thing as saying it does not work . Looks like the guy got scared off and maybe bought as well . Patenting will not stop uws "rolling our own".
Yes neptune. Look in my Profil  (=sended messages)

2 or 3 days behind i have even given this idea to take an 12V 1 Amo (12W bulb in serie to the input (=motor).  Als let the knowledhe for the negative Temp Coeffizient,, and some more ...

No ONE have given attention to THIS easy way.

Also this "mechanocal way, ist better and more effective to use, can be work without steps "slightly" fine tuning...

tks for your response

Pese

P.S.

I will give more attention for this development now, BECAUSE,
if some "free energy people" ist working withh fully efforts for NO-SAYING !
Than he can be interested (for himself) to modify this item. (!?)

I am sorry if romeruk and others are coming (or feeling) under pressure.  IT is better to OPEN ALL, so no Pressure can be follow.
Gustav Pese

P.S.
Take replications, if not working, try another way! Most details are unknow.
As the direction /clock CW CCW of winding the coils enz) also little details can change that an device work or not ...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: merlynmetal on May 11, 2011, 07:14:26 PM
What I noticed in Romero's email to Sterling he never stated explicitly and or directly that it was a hoax/fraud etc. Maybe after all that noise around him they will make him soon do so but they can't stop others trying to replicate it.
Maybe it will be a good idea for those able to replicate the device successfully in the future to use some sort of internet annonimity tools like Freenet and/or Tor which are guaranteed to work and even banned in some countries because they cannot be controlled.
Or maybe create/transfer the forum to such annonimous environment in order to avoid personal visits...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 11, 2011, 07:25:15 PM
VIDEO..
OSCILOGRAMM....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ945Y891g8&feature=feedlik
ADAMS MOTOR  CHARGE BATERY ......
http://video.mail.ru/bk/mopoz/_myvideo/27.html
ADAMS MOTOR +1  ???? ...
http://video.mail.ru/bk/mopoz/_myvideo/36.html
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: i_ron on May 11, 2011, 07:37:12 PM
I've been asked where I got that info.  It came from Romero himself in this message: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg285496#msg285496

As follows:

Also, I got the following email from Romero:

From: RomeroUK
To: sterlingda...
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:37 AM
Subject: RomeroUK


Dear Mr Sterling,

 

I am sending this email after I saw your opinion on the forum.

First of all I do not have that device anymore, probably is destroyed, I have no idea and I don’t care anymore.

I have spent years in trying to do different things, replicating all sort of devices and spent lots of money for that.

This last week was a nightmare for me, you have no idea under what pressure I have been and how many people contacted me, warnings that I should keep quiet, people saying they run multimillion companies and want be to build for Africa,… and in the end, yesterday, I had a personal visit after leaving my day to day job.

I had the impression that I live in a free country but it was demonstrated that anything is possible, we will never move forward.

I am an IT guy and I thought that I have a good brain but now after that I even forgot simple passwords and things I use every day, this is how scared I am.

I have a family, kids and they are most important for me. I had a lot of problems home with my wife because this too, she never wanted me to publish any of my work, but I did, and it looks that I should have listen to her. Well, now I learned my lesson.

I have never asked anyone for money or invited them to do a copy of the device I built, I have only showed my results, no intention to harm anyone in any way.

All I want now is to enjoy the life I had before and forget about doing any more research, I don’t have the power to do that anymore.

I am not good for this kind of pressure, I already have hearth problems, it is not worth it.

I just hope that one day someone better than me will have the strength to go thru all this.

I have always stated that I have no intention to sell or do any public demonstrations, please check my posts on overunity forum.

 

This is the end I hope, I don’t want be contacted by any other people, I have no more info to share. All I had I posted free and it is better to be considered as not working.

 

Best Regards,

RomeroUK

Sterling,

Thank you for posting that letter from Romero.
The "system" strikes again. His device has been taken away and destroyed. He is not to do research anymore.

There is only one conclusion.

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: steeltpu on May 11, 2011, 07:40:43 PM
some news from your friendly steeltpu rumor mill.  i was told that Sterling is See I Aye.  say that out loud if you don't get it.  i have seen some supporting evidence of that.  supposedly to keep a pulse on free energy and then send in the goon squad if anything real or threatening in their mind to the economy.  either that or he is trying to badger romerouk into getting back on here and finishing what he started. 

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 11, 2011, 07:44:59 PM
VIDEO..
OSCILOGRAMM....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ945Y891g8&feature=feedlik

Okay that's how it looks like WHAT? Could you elaborate on what this video is supposed to illustrate?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 11, 2011, 07:47:53 PM
Okay that's how it looks like WHAT? Could you elaborate on what this video is supposed to illustrate?
viev next video author....
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: alan on May 11, 2011, 07:58:22 PM
Feel a bit bad for Romero, hopefully someday he'll  post his full story.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: teslaedison on May 11, 2011, 08:14:32 PM
Hello Guys that are doing a great work but I would love to put my two sense into the pot if I may because I did an experiment with just distilled water by itself with the use of Paper clip and stainless steel spoon so if you are interested in how I did it by Tesla's AC with Edison's DC working together please contact me any time about this at:
309-660-4627 ask for me Thomas

PS : Here is a video showing white pure H2 and O2 white cloud gases below
http://www.fliqz.com/aspx/permalink.aspx?at=5776ccb97e4a432d923e9b4186cad72e&a=177157c753114cd4a05ac46773477d7f
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: teslaedison on May 11, 2011, 08:18:01 PM
Hello Guys that are doing a great work but I would love to put my two sense into the pot if I may because I did an experiment with just distilled water by itself with the use of Paper clip and stainless steel spoon so if you are interested in how I did it by Tesla's AC with Edison's DC working together please contact me any time about this at:
309-660-4627 ask for me Thomas

PS : Here is a video showing white pure H2 and O2 white cloud gases below
http://www.fliqz.com/aspx/permalink.aspx?at=5776ccb97e4a432d923e9b4186cad72e&a=177157c753114cd4a05ac46773477d7f
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Aphasiac on May 11, 2011, 08:18:05 PM
some news from your friendly steeltpu rumor mill.  Sterling is . . .  trying to badger romerouk into getting back on here and finishing what he started.

Remember that in commonwealth countries anyone can be charged for any crime.  There may exist some compelling argument, for some, that by threatening Romerouk with criminal action, he will be compelled to further prove the authenticity of his own device in defence of himself. Perhaps this is why Sterling was inquiring.

This, of course, is ethically reprehensible.  We're bigger than that.

Let us build with integrity.

 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 11, 2011, 08:18:12 PM
@Steeltpu . If sterlinga works for the See Aye Ay , he will not be getting his bonus this year because of letting Rossi`s cold fusion device escape! LOL
 @Pese .I seemed to have missed your information on controlling the muller Dynamo . This is a shame because I always value your opinion . I can not find it in your profile pages either . Could you [or someone] please provide a link .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wings on May 11, 2011, 08:41:16 PM
Romerouk site dead 3 days ago:

http://underservice.org/

but with WB :

http://replay.web.archive.org/20050320174237/http://www.underservice.org/
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: i_ron on May 11, 2011, 08:41:49 PM
Sterling,

Thank you for posting that letter from Romero.
The "system" strikes again. His device has been taken away and destroyed. He is not to do research anymore.

There is only one conclusion.

Ron

Romero,

I hope you can still read here?  Just wanted to say thank you (again) and that we will do our best to vindicate you by carrying on this great work.

"They" may have waited to long to suppress this, the genie is out of the bag. Anyway, we will do our best.

We understand fully. what you said, why you had to do what you did. We are with you in spirit.

Ron



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magneticitist on May 11, 2011, 08:54:15 PM
heres a thought... not to ridicule the whole idea because i believe it...

BUT we seem to always have this understanding that there are powerful forces out there intent on silencing or discrediting whoever should come across and attempt to share these energy miracles. from a logical perspective this does seem very real and likely.

But knowing this, we continue to provide our experience in a manner that simply invites these powers right to us.
doing this over and over and expecting these powers to just skip over or ignore us through luck can be called insanity by some people.

it seems we are in need of a better medium with which to share out information that offers an even greater deal of anonymity than this forum.
i like the fact that Stefan is able to backup and store all deleted youtube vids, but thats just a start.

the CIA coming to snatch you away is not only something we should consciously make an effort to avoid, but it provides far too easy of an excuse for would-be hoax starters..

if i was Romero i would not been so open as he was.. i would have shared the same information but not so publicly, and definitely not in a way where my personal information could be tracked down. that is ludicrous.

Anyone who yet again finds themselves traveling down this all too familiar road should consider sharing their information in a completely anonymous manner, which hopefully some of us can create in some type of way. some type of venue where OU info can be shared and the poster has total confidentiality regarding his or her personal life. fight the urge to receive personal praise. its not all about you.

are going to have to go through this yet again?

if we are indeed "rebels" against a governmental oppression then maybe we should start acting like it and move accordingly to work against this oppression rather than just bending right over in front of uncle sam asking him to give us a swift kick in the reality ass
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: teslaedison on May 11, 2011, 08:55:49 PM
Hello Guys,
     That are doing a great work but I would love to put my two sense into the pot if I may because I did an experiment with just distilled water by itself with the use of Paper clip and stainless steel spoon so if you are interested in how I did it by Tesla's AC with Edison's DC working together please contact me below at bottom of this message.

PS : Here is a video showing white pure H2 and O2 white cloud gases below

http://www.fliqz.com/aspx/permalink.aspx?at=5776ccb97e4a432d923e9b4186cad72e&a=177157c753114cd4a05ac46773477d7f

Also more information below too.
      You are not giving the totall account of Dr. Randell Mills processes which he says that the electrons are round shape disks when it comes to a positive proton that the electron wraps around it as a bubble so go check his explanation to what I totally believe is true web site below:
www.blacklightpower.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymlc8nk7Mdk

PS if you have any questions about this to please contact me at any time so I can explain his processes which will evidently become the new wave of energy for the future of all of mankind !! 
Sincerely,
Thomas C.
Cell Number: 309-660-4627
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 09:01:56 PM
For all the conspiracy theorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw

Come on it's not brain Surgery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 11, 2011, 09:39:38 PM

 @Pese .I seemed to have missed your information on controlling the muller Dynamo . This is a shame because I always value your opinion . I can not find it in your profile pages either . Could you [or someone] please provide a link .

Neptune.
you have right. (and i failed, i am wrong)

4 days past i write only in forum that i give easier ways.
 (No one ask)
I have changed  some Personal Messages, with
"nul-poinzs" , and written  exactly "same" as your idea".
to him...
 Congratulation.

Its the easyest way to split this "overvoltages (up to 24v) in to 12V loads that are in series.

Because one load is the "filament bulb" .and the output is "only" 18 volt /for example)
so the motor wir receive more than the half of 18 volts - and the bulb (lamp) less.

-------------------------------

If this MULLER DYNAMO REPLICATION can speed up from himself ...

IF it is so. Than it is overunity within !!

BUT it is possibel, that it coudnt replicate againe.



I will wait  and see.

Pese
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: TEKTRON on May 11, 2011, 09:55:02 PM
For all the conspiracy theorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw



LOL .Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh ;D
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: teslaedison on May 11, 2011, 09:55:34 PM
I also figured out with the use of a 100 watt incandescent light bulb which acted like a fuse with the high voltages from a microwave of AC with a light bulb fixture that the light bulb did not turn on or destroyed the fillament inside this 100 watt light bulb and if you have any questions about this please ask away seriously !!  This is part to what I found out with the use of AC and DC from Tesla work and Edison work together !!!

if you want to contact me about this I can if you want to phone me at: 309-660-4627   I am an ex US Navy MOS was TQ Radar Sonar Tech.  my name is Thomas
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: baroutologos on May 11, 2011, 09:57:02 PM
I still feel shocked of what happened since i feel repsonsible somehow for that swift suppression Romero undergone..

I have the impression that my eagerness to rally support from skilled replicators (and not noob theorizers) turned as boomerang by "exposing" Romero's site in an "inspirational" post of mine few pages ago. I readily realized my mistake and post was soon after modified.

But it seems i turned undersired attention to the forum he was administrator and i was a member, to people that are not useful at all. Romero and i exchanged private emails saying (politely) that was a most bad idea since from his forum, the DNS entries are registred (as he explained) to his real name and address etc.
I am not a computer guy and did not know this.

Less than 20min from my last post, our forum hacked and Romero replied privately that he will try to change his details so as not unsolicited contact be achieved.
From then and on, you know as much I know.

....

underservice.org, was a forum that Romero, I and (sometimes) dlbarre were posting. The forum had hardly 10 people registered and most others were spammers. i was invited there by Romero one year (more or less) ago. I was very interested in his Kapanadze style experiments and mostly back then in his Kapagen replica.

Stefan (our admin) knows that, since I exchanged with him private mails that i said back then Romero has some nice results out of his device.

Anyway, the forum was not secret at all (just google the name RomeroUK or Baroutologos). Romero's work there and mine's was in public view and in my youtube account i have posted videos that were attached to forum's posts and i have told to many people so.  (e.g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlhg3Fi2Doc )
We have also some half year now exhanged msn and some noons and nights we were chating about our devices.

As i said, i did not shared always same beliefs with Romero but i respect him (although i considered him optimistic in his evaluations sometimes) and have learn a LOT from his advices in respect to the electromechanical tinkering. (i feel like his student)

This is why, I BELIEVE Romero's device is genuine and i will replicate it, be the last thing i will do in this hobby.

For historical (and commemorating) reasons i saved last few pages of the forum to my HDD since i somehow expected this kind of attack sooner or later to manifest. (was sooner btw)

Nothing more to say. This is our chance to take this thing a step further. Each one of you believing in Romero or my sayings, should keep on and take your time for the perfection of the suggested device.

...

Romero be you and your family safe my friend.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: mondrasek on May 11, 2011, 09:59:44 PM
I also figured out with the use of a 100 watt incandescent light bulb which acted like a fuse with the high voltages from a microwave of AC with a light bulb fixture that the light bulb did not turn on or destroyed the fillament inside this 100 watt light bulb and if you have any questions about this please ask away seriously !!  This is part to what I found out with the use of AC and DC from Tesla work and Edison work together !!!

if you want to contact me about this I can if you want to phone me at: 309-660-4627   I am an ex US Navy MOS was TQ Radar Sonar Tech.  my name is Thomas
@teslaedison,
All this is very interesting, but not relevant to this Muller Dynamo discussion.  I would recommend that you start a new thread for these new items.

Thanks,

M.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 11, 2011, 10:09:44 PM
I also figured out with the use of a 100 watt incandescent light bulb which acted like a fuse with the high voltages from a microwave of AC with a light bulb fixture that the light bulb did not turn on or destroyed the fillament inside this 100 watt light bulb and if you have any questions about this please ask away seriously !!  This is part to what I found out with the use of AC and DC from Tesla work and Edison work together !!!

if you want to contact me about this I can if you want to phone me at: 309-660-4627   I am an ex US Navy MOS was TQ Radar Sonar Tech.  my name is Thomas
It is in anyway better to use ohm-ic loads.
With instant Neon or led, you can not find the ouput powr, becaise also RF (High frequencies will "irritade" al mesurements...

To protect the filaments for overload (experimental(  use shunt resistors first (parallel to the lamp
pese
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: merlynmetal on May 11, 2011, 10:21:24 PM
Quote
it seems we are in need of a better medium with which to share out information that offers an even greater deal of anonymity than this forum.

That's what I was suggesting earlier. Most people think that a nickname and password offer protection but in fact it's not very difficult for the skilled to track you down if they want to.


 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: bolt on May 11, 2011, 10:30:12 PM
I also figured out with the use of a 100 watt incandescent light bulb which acted like a fuse with the high voltages from a microwave of AC with a light bulb fixture that the light bulb did not turn on or destroyed the fillament inside this 100 watt light bulb and if you have any questions about this please ask away seriously !!  This is part to what I found out with the use of AC and DC from Tesla work and Edison work together !!!

if you want to contact me about this I can if you want to phone me at: 309-660-4627   I am an ex US Navy MOS was TQ Radar Sonar Tech.  my name is Thomas

Thomas you really should NOT post your phone number and email etc in public forum (a mixture of nice people, crackpots, hitmen and saboteurs)  unless you want a ton of spam mail and crank phone calls at 3 am plus cellphone numbers will get text messages for gambling and titty sites sent hundred times a day. Some text messages actually can take credit off your phone.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wings on May 11, 2011, 10:33:32 PM
scaled up ?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcnISxcx1nI&feature=player_profilepage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdCSbLdKVJw&feature=player_profilepage





Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 11, 2011, 10:52:44 PM
heres a thought... not to ridicule the whole idea because i believe it...

BUT we seem to always have this understanding that there are powerful forces out there intent on silencing or discrediting whoever should come across and attempt to share these energy miracles. from a logical perspective this does seem very real and likely.

But knowing this, we continue to provide our experience in a manner that simply invites these powers right to us.
doing this over and over and expecting these powers to just skip over or ignore us through luck can be called insanity by some people.


it seems we are in need of a better medium with which to share out information that offers an even greater deal of anonymity than this forum.
i like the fact that Stefan is able to backup and store all deleted youtube vids, but thats just a start.

the CIA coming to snatch you away is not only something we should consciously make an effort to avoid, but it provides far too easy of an excuse for would-be hoax starters..

if i was Romero i would not been so open as he was.. i would have shared the same information but not so publicly, and definitely not in a way where my personal information could be tracked down. that is ludicrous.

Anyone who yet again finds themselves traveling down this all too familiar road should consider sharing their information in a completely anonymous manner,
which hopefully some of us can create in some type of way. some type of venue where OU info can be shared and the poster has total confidentiality regarding his or her personal life. fight the urge to receive personal praise. its not all about you.

are going to have to go through this yet again?

if we are indeed "rebels" against a governmental oppression then maybe we should start acting like it and move accordingly to work against this oppression rather than just bending right over in front of uncle sam asking him to give us a swift kick in the reality ass

I've been thinking along the same lines. Totally agree.  But how to share without being squashed? again?  I have a great deal of sympathy for RomeroUK -- I've been there in a rather similar situation, and in my case, it cost me my job.  I hope Romero keeps his, for his family's sake especially.

  I suspect that none of you know who I am, except perhaps one. 
Does it matter?  except that I'm working on alt-energy devices quietly, I've posted mostly on another forum, but far from everything, and I have a good oscilloscope on my home bench and access to state-of-the-art DSO's.

  Let's say a friend has a device, that appears using state-of-the-art DSO's to determine Pin and Pout -- clearly is overunity.  Where could he post the schematic, anonymously? (so the Sea Aye Ay/En Ess Ay/BigOil would not know no who posted it - not easy, I think)  and if he did, would you believe it enough to try it?

 
  But if you can think of another way to communicate privately, I'd like to hear it, and then maybe my brilliant friend will share his circuit with you.  He'd like to so that it could be checked, but is intimidated.  Yes, its has been replicated and looks good... but I expect you'll want to try it yourself.  One transistor, bifilar winding, brilliant IMO.  How can he communicate it to serious (and non-black-suit) types?

  What I've thought of is this -- we have a meeting where qualified guys bring their "best" devices and we listen and TEST on the spot.  No cell phones around.  VERY careful about who is invited and confidentiality AT the meeting.  Then, we replicate and get the word out all at once around the world via internet when we have a number of working devices.   BIG guys don't get all the money and control of energy.  Humanity benefits.

 In the present case with the Muller device , the schematic and details are already out there and folks are replicating.  That's great, and with enough replicators we might be able to get this out to humanity without the invention being squashed or bought up by BIG corps/in bed with/BIG guv-mint.  This may be the best way we've got. 

 I'd recommend that at least 3 replicators privately agree to announce their results at the SAME MOMENT, wherever in the world they are.  This MOMENT could be pre-determined here without the replicators identifying themselves further until that time where the results (and build details) are actually disclosed, all at once. 

Somehow, we've got to stop playing on the chessboard that THEY control.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Staffman on May 11, 2011, 11:04:54 PM
@Wings

Cool find. It sure looks like a scaled up Muller motor. I did a little research. The website for the company is no longer in service, and not on Archive.org. [http://www.newspacetechnology.co.th/] The only other mentions that I could find were from Searl's page- it just mentions that they(NST) were helping him manufacture some components for him.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 11, 2011, 11:10:59 PM
I've been thinking along the same lines. Totally agree.  But how to share without being squashed? again?  I have a great deal of sympathy for RomeroUK -- I've been there in a rather similar situation, and in my case, it cost me my job.  I hope Romero keeps his, for his family's sake especially.

  I suspect that none of you know who I am, except perhaps one. 
Does it matter?  except that I'm working on alt-energy devices quietly, I've posted mostly on another forum, but far from everything, and I have a good oscilloscope on my home bench and access to state-of-the-art DSO's.

  Let's say a friend has a device, that appears using state-of-the-art DSO's to determine Pin and Pout -- clearly is overunity.  Where could he post the schematic, anonymously? (so the Sea Aye Ay/En Ess Ay/BigOil would not know no who posted it - not easy, I think)  and if he did, would you believe it enough to try it?

 
  But if you can think of another way to communicate privately, I'd like to hear it, and then maybe my brilliant friend will share his circuit with you.  He'd like to so that it could be checked, but is intimidated.  Yes, its has been replicated and looks good... but I expect you'll want to try it yourself.  One transistor, bifilar winding, brilliant IMO.  How can he communicate it to serious (and non-black-suit) types?

  What I've thought of is this -- we have a meeting where qualified guys bring their "best" devices and we listen and TEST on the spot.  No cell phones around.  VERY careful about who is invited and confidentiality AT the meeting.  Then, we replicate and get the word out all at once around the world via internet when we have a number of working devices.   BIG guys don't get all the money and control of energy.  Humanity benefits.

 In the present case with the Muller device , the schematic and details are already out there and folks are replicating.  That's great, and with enough replicators we might be able to get this out to humanity without the invention being squashed or bought up by BIG corps/in bed with/BIG guv-mint.  This may be the best way we've got. 

 I'd recommend that at least 3 replicators privately agree to announce their results at the SAME MOMENT, wherever in the world they are.  This MOMENT could be pre-determined here without the replicators identifying themselves further until that time where the results (and build details) are actually disclosed, all at once. 

Somehow, we've got to stop playing on the chessboard that THEY control.

I am in
what a good idea.
how do we get this off the ground?

who else?




I am in
what a good idea.
how do we get this off the ground?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hhobrian on May 11, 2011, 11:20:25 PM
That's what I was suggesting earlier. Most people think that a nickname and password offer protection but in fact it's not very difficult for the skilled to track you down if they want to.

Especially since they log our IP on this forum...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 11, 2011, 11:23:02 PM
RomeroUK admired this guy's work very much
http://www.youtube.com/user/skycollection#p/u/1/FfxxidCNguo
Before playing the blame game, give some time for the replications
Title: Re: Criminal penalties for perpetrator?
Post by: sterlinga on May 11, 2011, 11:32:08 PM
Thanks for responding, Sterling.  RomeroUK sounds sincere to me, but very frightened.  Very.

[...]

I think this is why he said "fake" in his final parting post, don't you?  because he had a visit to his home and is now intimidated and frightened?  We are inventors, engineers -- not used to intimidation at our homes.

This is "coerced" testimony, not admissible as hard evidence.
But if you have REAL evidence that the device is a fake, I'd like to hear it.

Meanwhile, if you publish on your website that it is a fake without such firm evidence -- that would be unfair, my friend.  Also, pls note that replications  will come forth.  I'm hoping you will wait and see what the replications bring.

Okay, here's the link to our story: http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/ (http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 11:36:57 PM
Especially since they log our IP on this forum...

This is only to block and ban spammers.

Okay, maybe the secret services can hack this site also
or have a back door to my hoster...who knows ???

But you still can use proxies to upload stuff here.

Then you are anonymous.

Or just put it out as torrent file downloads or use
www.multiupload.com

Then it could not be deleted so easily.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2011, 11:47:12 PM
Well I just spoke to Romero on the phone and
I have promised him , not to publically tell what he said.

The only thing I can say is, that I still have trust in him.

But he has stopped now the work and must care about his family.


I hope that the replications will prove the case.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 11, 2011, 11:50:10 PM
Well I just spoke to Romero on the phone and
I have promised him , not to publically tell what he said.

The only thing I can say is, that I still have trust in him.

But he has stopped now the work and must care about his family.


I hope that the replications will prove the case.

Regards, Stefan.

Thanks Stefan. Even though you can't disclose the gist of your conversation, I take it that the stuff is REAL! So, we will continue to replicate...

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: merlynmetal on May 12, 2011, 12:03:13 AM
Quote
But you still can use proxies to upload stuff here.

Then you are anonymous.

More on Freenet and Tor:

https://www.torproject.org/

http://freenetproject.org/
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 12, 2011, 12:05:15 AM
Thanks Stefan. Even though you can't disclose the gist of your conversation, I take it that the stuff is REAL! So, we will continue to replicate...

cheers
chrisC

Yes, please continue to replicate.

P.S: That is my personal opinion.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 12, 2011, 12:07:25 AM
I still feel shocked of what happened since i feel repsonsible somehow for that swift suppression Romero undergone..



baroutologos,

Do not blame yourself.  "They" know who all of us are.  It was just something they were a little lax (from their point of view) in putting the damper on... hence the apparent sudden decent of the ax.

If by chance you have further contact with romero, do tell him that the agreement with 'them' is not binding. No contract made under duress is legal, or lawful, they know this. So when the time is right romero can simply declare said contract null and void.

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 12, 2011, 12:19:41 AM
Hello Guys that are doing a great work but I would love to put my two sense into the pot if I may because I did an experiment with just distilled water by itself with the use of Paper clip and stainless steel spoon so if you are interested in how I did it by Tesla's AC with Edison's DC working together please contact me any time about this at:
309-660-4627 ask for me Thomas

PS : Here is a video showing white pure H2 and O2 white cloud gases below
http://www.fliqz.com/aspx/permalink.aspx?at=5776ccb97e4a432d923e9b4186cad72e&a=177157c753114cd4a05ac46773477d7f



Guys, I suggest not responding to posts such as this, all things considered here.  It could be bait to get in contact with people on this thread.
And this post does not belong here. Its odd that it is posted here the day after YESTERDAY.  ;)  Dont get caught up in that. Stick with the program. ;]

Im dropping other projects to do some work here. I dont have the funds at this time to order prescribed parts. So I am scaling the size down for what I already have available. And maybe, if things work, it will show that some variations can work and better to prove workability. I have a rotor with mags on a base already and Im going to make the coils in modules that mount to the base. It eliminates a lot of framing work.  ;] And each module can be worked on easier I believe, and allows more ways of tuning by being able to adjust the module position on the base.

There was a post here about figuring a way for people to be able to get together safely on these things.  That would be good. We should all think of ideas like this.
And ideas to help defend your self some way if you do get a visit.
Like hidden closed circuit cam and sound recording, etc.
The more minds that are on these ideas, the better it can be worked out.  just thoughts.
Its just all a shame. 

How about a huge petition site, or even here. Petition these rules or laws.  There has to be something that can be done. Has to be.

A friend of mine had heard of a story a while back about Texaco and Shell coming together. He had told his long time social friend that worked for a news station of it, and said he would tell his boss of this, that it might be a good story to report.
It ended up that his friend contacted him and told him he could no longer talk to him, and to stay away from his family and to leave him alone forever.   :o   What?    So this means the media is already in the know of deep secrets to veer away from. Just how big is Charlot's web?

God, Let me come home. I dont like this plac much any more.  One day.  ;]


Mags


Keep on Keepin on.  Be careful and be safe. ;]
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 12, 2011, 12:47:53 AM
I wrote:
[snip]

 
Quote
What I've thought of is this -- we have a meeting where qualified guys bring their "best" devices and we listen and TEST on the spot.  No cell phones around.  VERY careful about who is invited and confidentiality AT the meeting.  Then, we replicate and get the word out all at once around the world via internet when we have a number of working devices.   BIG guys don't get all the money and control of energy.  Humanity benefits.

 In the present case with the Muller device , the schematic and details are already out there and folks are replicating.  That's great, and with enough replicators we might be able to get this out to humanity without the invention being squashed or bought up by BIG corps/in bed with/BIG guv-mint.  This may be the best way we've got.

 I'd recommend that at least 3 replicators privately agree to announce their results at the SAME MOMENT, wherever in the world they are.  This MOMENT could be pre-determined here without the replicators identifying themselves further until that time where the results (and build details) are actually disclosed, all at once.

Somehow, we've got to stop playing on the chessboard that THEY control.

And Rod, one of the chief replicators, responded:



I am in
what a good idea.
how do we get this off the ground?
   
  Rod, you probably know the other replicators or most of them.  Be sure to include the good guys you know, lasersaber, Skywatcher...  If you are willing, have them contact you, and between you agree on a time in the (hopefully) near future when you will all PUBLICLY POST results, simultaneously.   Post on all the forums you can think of, I'd suggest.   You might consider dropping a "classified ad" in some major news papers to appear on the same day, referring to a web site, or some other ways to publicize.  The idea is to get the word out fast and with multiple confirmations at the same time, so you reach the PEOPLE around the globe rather than the BIG-OYL corps.

Then, if you guys can, keep things quiet/between yourselves until that moment of announcement. Keep the black suits off your backs.  No videos till then.  But a couple of self-running devices posted simultaneously on youtube would be great, at that moment.
Others may have some ideas to expand or refine this approach.

I admire you for your willingness to get this out to people.   I keep thinking how the folks in Japan need such an energy source as do other countries -- I have numerous friends in Japan.  But we don't want to have Big-Oyl crush the nascent science, OK, in my opinion!
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 12, 2011, 12:56:00 AM
I also figured out with the use of a 100 watt incandescent light bulb which acted like a fuse with the high voltages from a microwave of AC with a light bulb fixture that the light bulb did not turn on or destroyed the fillament inside this 100 watt light bulb and if you have any questions about this please ask away seriously !!  This is part to what I found out with the use of AC and DC from Tesla work and Edison work together !!!

if you want to contact me about this I can if you want to phone me at: 309-660-4627   I am an ex US Navy MOS was TQ Radar Sonar Tech.  my name is Thomas

I have to quote Rosemary on this, "Golly" 

This is just too obvious to be good.  Ex navy?   Ask Bob Boyce what he would do. 

Just another warning, dont fall for that crap. 

Every one of his posts, his cell no.  How peculier and out of the ordinary. Heck, Im surprised he doesnt put up a pic of his family and put up his home address.  Why all this? Just post the idea dude.
Is he fishing?  Dont be that fish guys.


Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 12, 2011, 01:02:24 AM
Hi all,

Has anyone had any joy with coils/core ?

No matter what I try, I cannot seem to get anywhere near the 12 or so volts on a single coil.

I have tried many arrangements.

Any suggetions are welcome

Kind Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 12, 2011, 01:03:21 AM
PS -- here's dreaming, but if others can then replicate in short order following the announcement, this could go viral in both you-tube and the press.  You should have at least one "major" guy like a Professor(?) in the wings...

I was living when the "cold fusion" claims hit the presses -- world wide.   That was energy, also, but replications were, well, not forthcoming.  The media/public attention span is short UNLESS you can keep the ball rolling -- lots of replications and local newspaper articles and TV news, things like that.

 Here, you will be MUCH better prepared with replicators in place at various spots in the world (hopefully).  If you could get some in the US, AND in Germany, Japan, UK, etc. -- and push to get into the media -- this could go viral.  And out of the reach of the guys who think we are mere pawns in THEIR game.

CHECKMATE.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hartiberlin on May 12, 2011, 01:21:02 AM
Hi all,

Has anyone had any joy with coils/core ?

No matter what I try, I cannot seem to get anywhere near the 12 or so volts on a single coil.

I have tried many arrangements.

Any suggetions are welcome

Kind Regards, Penno

Hi,
what is your RPM of the rotor and what are the air gap widths in Millimeter ?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 01:31:11 AM
Hey Guys I was little skeptical at the beginning but I'm getting tugged over to your side based on the respect you have for your friend. I had a thought that might add something if you don't mind. Romero mentioned he was working with a model airplane motor and seemed to give an indication that it would work but was two small to work with. He also said he employed the principle in the replication. It looked like Romeo had 9 poles as the stator or 9 coils on the top and 9 0n the bottom. Never the less the proper amount of magnets for a 9 leg stator motor is 12 and it looks like he had 12 magnets. OK unlike having the same amount of coils and magnets the cogging goes way down. Instead of 9 heavy holding points per revolution you go to 36 lighter cogs per revolution. The typical wind for a 9 coil 12 magnet configuration is to have all coils wound in the same direction but the magnets are nsnsn etc. (not saying his is) This combination is optimal for 3 phase operation. I doubt, however, that his coils where connected like a standard three phase motor. Just food for though. There's a lot of things there to sort out. I'm probably out of place putting my two cents in. I haven't done a lot of reading on the invention.
DadHav (John H)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: infringer on May 12, 2011, 01:32:12 AM
I have a web forum somewhere on the net which has had 0 zero visitors except people I implicitly know there has not been one post there for a couple years... And the implicit people are myself with different names for forum testing as I have never got the forum off the ground nor have I advertised it.

I could set up accounts and a forum with specific permissions but I refuse to say the name of the forum name in public...

If you would like to give that a shot...

Too bad you hear this all the time about MIB type shit and it always seems to happen the same way either a 100% of claimed OU inventors all try to sell the same bullshit story or maybe there just may be some real truth behind this it is odd how it always seems to be that sterling is the one to break the MIB story after a hoax or whatever and Hartiberlin seems to draw the original posts yes to some it may appear this way but really this is how a network works to find and scout out real possible stories the whole FE network works together...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 12, 2011, 01:35:34 AM
It is not the Government that owns all the Oil, they just tax it., Oil is owned mostly in the private sector. this private sector is what you need to be concerned about.

ad a bit of paranoia and pinch of schizophrenia and you got a good conspirator.

I have a cousin in the C.I.A and they (the foundation) could really give a crap about this site, nor any invention and or theory on this site. unless you are a criminal of course.

but hey, if you like living a mentally chaotic life then go right ahead. please indulge.

Jerry 8) 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 12, 2011, 01:50:12 AM
It is not the Government that owns all the Oil, they just tax it., Oil is owned mostly in the private sector. this private sector is what you need to be concerned about.

ad a bit of paranoia and pinch of schizophrenia and you got a good conspirator.

I have a cousin in the C.I.A and they (the foundation) could really give a crap about this site, nor any invention and or theory on this site. unless you are a criminal of course.

but hey, if you like living a mentally chaotic life then go right ahead. please indulge.

Jerry 8)

Maybe not the CIA, but I have read the NSA is involved. I read that they intervened in how 3 phase motors are made as some out there were modifying them for ou. Rotoverter? And involved with how some transformers are made.

As for Govt and tax, you betcha.  I was told today of a town that many of the people there had windmills and eventually they are being taxed for each one, as revenues were reduced because of it.
And now I have also heard of plans to add tax to gas by miles used, and its added at the pump.  I dont recall how, some device, but will tell when I speak to him again.

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: xenomorphlabs on May 12, 2011, 02:00:58 AM
It is not the Government that owns all the Oil, they just tax it., Oil is owned mostly in the private sector. this private sector is what you need to be concerned about.

ad a bit of paranoia and pinch of schizophrenia and you got a good conspirator.

I have a cousin in the C.I.A and they (the foundation) could really give a crap about this site, nor any invention and or theory on this site. unless you are a criminal of course.

but hey, if you like living a mentally chaotic life then go right ahead. please indulge.

Jerry 8)

So it's a conspiracy theory that the Bushes had stocks in Harken Energy
and Cheney and Rumsfeld have any connection with Halliburton ...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 12, 2011, 02:04:13 AM
Hi Stefan,

I am only checking with a single coil/core - trying everything I have available.

My rpms can be changed as I am drving the rotor with a DC motor using a PWM.

I am not concerned yet with the drive side of things.

Wanting to prove the generator side of the device first.

Kindest Regards, Penno

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 12, 2011, 02:12:09 AM
So it's a conspiracy theory that Cheney and Rumsfeld have any connection with Halliburton ...

Hi Xeno.

I'll let you answer that for yourself for now, I never followed it so I know nothing about it, I would however like to see you post some news about it so that I could make a discussion based upon your suspicion. could you do that for me please?

the human race will always have wolves in the sheep. in fact, Humans are better at being a wolf than the wolf itself. meaning we have more sheep to be slaughtered than the wolf itself. Humans are the only known perfect predator. not perfect exactly but struggling to be is more the phrase.

so yes, I do agree that a deal of suspicion is adequate so long as there is hard facts and not mere speculation conjured by paranoid schizophrenic people.

trust is the 'center' of all emotions, hell, I even developed this into my A.I bot. all emotions branch out from trust.

trust is thee prime emotion.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 12, 2011, 02:16:19 AM
Hi Stefan,

I am only checking with a single coil/core - trying everything I have available.

My rpms can be changed as I am drving the rotor with a DC motor using a PWM.

I am not concerned yet with the drive side of things.

Wanting to prove the generator side of the device first.

Kindest Regards, Penno

Its very possible that the top and bottom coil/bias mags need to be complete in the magnetic circuit. I would at least complete a bottom and top set for testing. It may make a difference. 
One alternate way i was thinking of was just to have the rotor mags aim outwards from the rotor and pickup coils on the perimeter aiming in, but then I reconsidered due to what I stated in my first sentence above.

Mags
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 12, 2011, 02:17:36 AM
FYI. Today I got my magnets N42 7/8" x 1/2" x 20.20mm  Strong NdFeB Neodymium Disk Magnetsand my Ferrite powder to make my own ferrite rods.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 12, 2011, 02:41:38 AM
So it's a conspiracy theory that the Bushes had stocks in Harken Energy
and Cheney and Rumsfeld have any connection with Halliburton ...

Hi xeno.

please refer to post #858 as I had posted.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 12, 2011, 03:04:36 AM
Maybe not the CIA, but I have read the NSA is involved. I read that they intervened in how 3 phase motors are made as some out there were modifying them for ou. Rotoverter? And involved with how some transformers are made.

As for Govt and tax, you betcha.  I was told today of a town that many of the people there had windmills and eventually they are being taxed for each one, as revenues were reduced because of it.
And now I have also heard of plans to add tax to gas by miles used, and its added at the pump.  I dont recall how, some device, but will tell when I speak to him again.

Mags
I am not fluent with the N.S.A but I believe that they (the foundation) would not be so different than the C.I.A, I just have no relatives in the N.S.A to resolve this discussion. that I know of for certain. anyways.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 12, 2011, 03:11:19 AM
Hi all,

Has anyone had any joy with coils/core ?

No matter what I try, I cannot seem to get anywhere near the 12 or so volts on a single coil.

I have tried many arrangements.

Any suggetions are welcome

Kind Regards, Penno

I tried using the coil from a relay from RadioShack (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/44/449350_1.pdf) and easily will generate 12 or more volts by spinning a wheel with magnets at a mere 100rpm.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: plengo on May 12, 2011, 03:31:54 AM
I thought about an idea how this could work.

Take the rotor Romero did and its coils. There is one less magnet than coil. Cogging is there. Imagine now that we balance things so that cogging is even in every step, magnet approaching coil and passing by with net energy equal 0.

Now, if you spin the rotor fast enough it will somehow spin for a long time with zero energy loss caused by the cogging and only resistance losses. The energy necessary to pass the cogging is gained back as soon as it pass the coil, if repulsion is used as the mechanism. Such as Romero's design.

So far nothing new, no OU. Now, connect the coils to loads, such as 10 ohms resistors and again, balance the wheel by using distance of the magnets and coils and other ways so that cogging is again there but net zero with one difference now, we have a load and heat is created on the resistors. No OU yet, only more losses because of Lenz-laws.

Now, let's imagine that if the closed path of the whole wheel is balanced, as the rotor spins we generate electricity by the coils and the counter-EMF that increases the resistance of the cogging therefore causing greater losses.

How to fix that, imagine that if the closed magnetic path is very balanced in every step of the magnets passing by the coils will always have equal forces on all the points (magnets and coils) but what would happen if in one point we either loose some of the balance via making a magnet flux less intense, would not that cause the rotor to spin one revolution and cog at that unbalanced point?

Would be possible to now unbalance the opposing magnet/coil and restore the current magnet/coil balance causing the rotor to spin again with zero net loss/gain only paying for the unbalancing energy cost?

Would be possible to use the loads on the coils to be elements that cause that unbalance while using the energy generated when the rotor spins because the unbalance magnetic closed path flux?

I remember Romero saying that was very important to tune the motor with the proper load already connected so that the balancing would be specific to that load?

It sounds to me that one could create a very balanced closed path magnetic flux rotor where the coils are the pulsating unbalancing actors for causing the rotor to spin indefinitely only paying for the unbalancing cost which is NOT proportional to the strength of the rotation of the rotor. The rotor will spin proportional to the total magnetic energy in place, stronger magnets stronger spins and therefore more energy generated and less energy necessary to cause unbalance.

Please, shoot my idea.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: pese on May 12, 2011, 03:40:50 AM
scaled up ?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcnISxcx1nI&feature=player_profilepage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdCSbLdKVJw&feature=player_profilepage

Videos,
Say nothing
Show nothing
only confusing tangle wire
not comprehensible
Meters ads.

NONSENSE!

(RomeroUK  YTubes are better to "over-view"

Pese

German: see also http://overunity.de 

Link collection of alternative energies and more:
german/englisch, simply htm collected
unprofessional, non-business! kists:
http://alt-nrg.de/pppp
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 12, 2011, 03:42:08 AM
I thought about an idea how this could work.

Take the rotor Romero did and its coils. There is one less magnet than coil. Cogging is there. Imagine now that we balance things so that cogging is even in every step, magnet approaching coil and passing by with net energy equal 0.

Now, if you spin the rotor fast enough it will somehow spin for a long time with zero energy loss caused by the cogging and only resistance losses. The energy necessary to pass the cogging is gained back as soon as it pass the coil, if repulsion is used as the mechanism. Such as Romero's design.

So far nothing new, no OU. Now, connect the coils to loads, such as 10 ohms resistors and again, balance the wheel by using distance of the magnets and coils and other ways so that cogging is again there but net zero with one difference now, we have a load and heat is created on the resistors. No OU yet, only more losses because of Lenz-laws.

Now, let's imagine that if the closed path of the whole wheel is balanced, as the rotor spins we generate electricity by the coils and the counter-EMF that increases the resistance of the cogging therefore causing greater losses.

How to fix that, imagine that if the closed magnetic path is very balanced in every step of the magnets passing by the coils will always have equal forces on all the points (magnets and coils) but what would happen if in one point we either loose some of the balance via making a magnet flux less intense, would not that cause the rotor to spin one revolution and cog at that unbalanced point?

Would be possible to now unbalance the opposing magnet/coil and restore the current magnet/coil balance causing the rotor to spin again with zero net loss/gain only paying for the unbalancing energy cost?

Would be possible to use the loads on the coils to be elements that cause that unbalance while using the energy generated when the rotor spins because the unbalance magnetic closed path flux?

I remember Romero saying that was very important to tune the motor with the proper load already connected so that the balancing would be specific to that load?

It sounds to me that one could create a very balanced closed path magnetic flux rotor where the coils are the pulsating unbalancing actors for causing the rotor to spin indefinitely only paying for the unbalancing cost which is NOT proportional to the strength of the rotation of the rotor. The rotor will spin proportional to the total magnetic energy in place, stronger magnets stronger spins and therefore more energy generated and less energy necessary to cause unbalance.

Please, shoot my idea.

Fausto.

simply, you are not using 'enough' energy to gain energy. in fact, nobody on this site is using enough energy to gain energy 'if' you can catch my previous drift.

Just being myself.
Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wopwops on May 12, 2011, 04:31:57 AM
If you guys want to take your privacy seriously, what I'm reading so far won't cut it. See this:

http://cryptogon.com/?p=624

High-Traffic Colluding Tor Routers in Washington, D.C., and the Ugly Truth About Online Anonymity

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: steeltpu on May 12, 2011, 04:45:47 AM
How to safely release your OU device and get it out to thousands of people and dozens of web sites: 

first you buy a laptop or netbook with WiFi.  pay cash for it and make sure you can't be traced to it in any way.  computers had unique ID's which can be traced online in some cases.  get one off craigslist or similar.  maybe even have a friend pick it up for you.  we're talking paranoid level V here.  but it will be peace of mind. 

next you totally document how to build and tune your device down to the most minute detail so any one who can read would be able to replicate it.  have a complete parts source list and multiple places to get thing would be best. 

get a wifi extender antenna or one of several devices to give you a little more range.  if you know about wifi war-driving than i don't need to say much more but that will not be necessary unless you choose to try it that way.  just pick a nice rainy day if possible and take a drive an hour or two from where you live.  add more time as needed for the truly paranoid.  you have already picked a spot in another city that has free Wifi like a starbucks, mcdonalds or coffee shop or whatever.  you can find free wifi hot spots on the internet.  use a proxy when searching for them. 

  you've already got your complete document in pdf ready to upload.  you may even have a keystroke recorder or similar program that once you start it will fire off your document to many sites and forums.  done right it could take only a minute or two.  but if you are not into keystroke recorders than just have it all planned out ahead where you are uploading and posting.  email people also like stefan and others you know will gladly share it.  at the most you should be able to do all this from your car in 10 minutes.  you have your wifi extender so you don't even need to go in the place.  many places you would not even need an extender as i've used many wifi hot spots from out in the parking lot. 

you've done it!  the world will have free energy!!!!!   if you think you want to include something unique in a separate document so you could claim your fame some day then make a separate document with a brief encrypted message and use something like AES.  Then take that document and encrypt it with Triple Blowfish or some other uncrackable encryption.  Only you will know the message so some day if you choose you release the passwords (very long ones) and the world will know who to thank.  by then big oil and big energy are out of business largely except for lubricating the machines every one now has thanks to you !
   
  if anyone would like to add any improvements to this plan fire away as this is just off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Staffman on May 12, 2011, 04:56:27 AM
steeltpu is right. Also, if your really paranoid, look up proxy chaining and proxy lists. Be sure to use anonymous and/or high anonymous servers around the globe in multiple countries. Some proxy servers will only work for a short period of time, so test before using. Oh, one more thing... Just so your aware, speeds suck doing proxy chaining, so plan your time accordingly. Just sayin...  8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 12, 2011, 05:12:47 AM
If you guys want to take your privacy seriously, what I'm reading so far won't cut it. See this:

http://cryptogon.com/?p=624

High-Traffic Colluding Tor Routers in Washington, D.C., and the Ugly Truth About Online Anonymity

Simply, turn it off. will your illusions disappear? I really don't think so, the Government has public guidelines that it 'must' follow. are you really running and hiding from the U.S Government? why! if you feel they are tracking "you" down then maybe you do have something to hide and it is not O.U.

there are people who are purely criminal minded but are perfectly normal in society, sometimes not. these are those who get caught. I can even go into lie theory if I need to discuss lie theory in a court of law.

I bet 'most of you never knew there was a 'Lie' Theory did you?

jerry 8)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 12, 2011, 05:14:03 AM
Working on replication.  Deleted my post.  Will post failure as me or success as an unknown "New User" from remote computer through ANON site.

That handles security and fun at the same time, no?  Good Luck to all.

Some very good ideas coming forth here.  Can anyone see anything amiss with Loner's suggestion of posting "failures" rather freely, and in that way getting some help/feedback?  I can't see a problem with that.  No need to hide "failures", I agree.  This is where we help each other -- hopefully!


i also like his posting "success as an unknown "New User" from remote computer through ANON site", although through another person's computer (a public library might work, if they don't record YOUR name) and server.  Again, I highly recommend that you replicators agree privately on an exact time when you will all post your successes and details, "en masse" and on several forums, and then the rest of us will be here to help disseminate the information rapidly worldwide. 

I agree with the idea of preserving some record so that you can get due credit later, after the "cat is out of the bag".  Mailing yourself (or lawyer friend) a sealed letter with your detailed posting is another way to do this.

And perhaps keep your device at a friend's house for a day or two after the announcement -- recalling that RomeroUK had his device "taken" and probably (as he said) destroyed.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: steeltpu on May 12, 2011, 05:35:28 AM
forget libraries and anon servers.  libraries are one of the most monitored.  read what is posted in most all libraries on using internet.  scary.  read the cryptogon article wopwops posted.  it's good and a lot is just like what i said above.  i did forget to say to use a linux live cd or live usb flash disk.  yes you can have live usb flash disks and they are cheap enough you can throw it away if needed.  4gig flash will cover everything u need and that is less than $10 about anywhere. 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 12, 2011, 05:35:53 AM
Simply, turn it off. will your illusions disappear? I really don't think so, the Government has public guidelines that it 'must' follow. are you really running and hiding from the U.S Government? why! if you feel they are tracking "you" down then maybe you do have something to hide.


jerry 8)

Jerry, several of us are concerned because of the treatment that Romero reported, and that other inventors have evidently received. It seems that there is a coordination of the government to help big business maintain their control.  A clear example is provided by Monsanto's patenting of seeds and suing farmers who did not plant Monsanto seeds, for somehow picking up pollen or traces from patented seeds.  And winning, with government support for all this.  There are other examples.

In the case of energy inventions, the US Patent Office has guidelines that are unfavorable to "free energy" devices.  I attach a USPTO -- Special document which delineates "free energy" and "perpetual motion" machines as ones that will be held or canned, if they are found out.  It's not a "conspiracy theory", it's in their guidelines.  I invite you to read this. 

I must admit, after seeing the bank bailouts under the last two Presidents, contrary to the wishes of approximately 90% of the US population -- that there does appear evidence for the government working to favor banks (and businesses like Monsanto) over the public wishes.

So we are trying to legally use our Freedom of Speech (see first Amendment, Bill of Rights) and go DIRECT to the public, for the benefit of humanity around the world.

If you ask me, yes I will admit that I don't trust the US or UK (or most other) governments to honor the wishes and benefit of the people over the wishes and profits of corporations and banks.   It is not a matter of legality, for they can pass laws which give enormous bail-outs to banks and favor Monsanto, Halliburton, etc. It is a matter of using our Freedom of Speech to speak directly to our fellow man.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 12, 2011, 06:02:55 AM
Simply, turn it off. will your illusions disappear? I really don't think so, the Government has public guidelines that it 'must' follow. are you really running and hiding from the U.S Government? why! if you feel they are tracking "you" down then maybe you do have something to hide and it is not O.U.

there are people who are purely criminal minded but are perfectly normal in society, sometimes not. these are those who get caught. I can even go into lie theory if I need to discuss lie theory in a court of law.

I bet 'most of you never knew there was a 'Lie' Theory did you?

jerry 8)
the government's main prerogative is to invade my privacy...  ::) that and to ensure there is a certain amount of fecal matter in my drinking water. the RIGHT to anonymity is a basic tenet of "freedom". whether or not i (or anyone else) have something to hide is irrelevant.

grift someone's wireless if you are concerned. if you're really concerned, use multiple access points and rotate them randomly like i do. and for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, don't use windows or macintosh operating systems. live linux (i am using a live boot cd right now), learn it. live it.

p.s. i don't have a bank account. ;)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Magluvin on May 12, 2011, 06:15:42 AM
This is all great stuff guys.  Thanks for all of it. We should make a new thread for it, as I think there will be more to come.

Was thinking about encryption soft.  For people a long distance away, how can you safely get the code to the end user for encrypted docs?

Loner has a good way. But the upload would need to be complete.
It seems reasonable for the purpose. As for recognition for the builder, I think most will be on the same page, fugitaboutit.  ;]

Is anyone interested in a new thread for this stuff, or are we all good?

Was thinking, if possible for anyone, that we each should maybe at least have someone here as as a personal friendly contact, just in case someone has a problem like this, or just disappeared, so others can be made aware of the issue.  Say if 7 of us replicators just never show up again, next week even, it would be good for the others to be aware of the reaping being done. Sounds bad, but I think anything is possible considering this experience. Dunno.
Im sure everyone wants to keep going, but are also thinking of these other things and taking it a bit more seriously now. The game is on.

My setup is going to have a 10 mag  6in. rotor as I already have that. Probably 9 coil sets. the mags are 3/8x1/4 disks N52. 

I know most are trying to get exact parts if possible, but RS has a universal plugin car adapter thats 4.5 to 12v. Looks smaller, but may work here.  $40
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3875414


Im making my own multi strand conductors.

Good luck all

Mags




Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Charlie_V on May 12, 2011, 07:58:43 AM
How many coils is he using to drive the device versus how many coils he is using as a generator? 

I would think when you engage the coils, the magnetic field needed to cancel out the stationary permanent magnets (PMs) above and below would take the same energy (if not a little more) because you have to cancel the stationary PM field with the coils.

Of course when the rotor spins it would negate the current in the coils until you connected a load.  The load would drag on the rotor and cause current to increase in the driving coils (like a standard motor).  The coils there are just acting the same as if you made the top and bottom permanent magnets moveable perpendicular to the rotor.  You are still going to have to push the flux of those magnets away (whether you physically move the stator magnets or use coils). 

I don't know maybe I'm missing something here?  The only way I could see access energy is if the stationary PMs pushed more on the rotor than what it took to neutralize the field between the stationary PMs and rotor PMs.  What would cause that, is the core material of the coils really special or something?

Thanks,
Charlie

PS I'm not trying to be an ass here, since after reading my post it sorta comes off that way.  My statements are just how I would logically think and should be viewed more as questions.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: TEKTRON on May 12, 2011, 08:53:14 AM
Well, It looks like Sterling couldn't wait.
I haven't had a chance to read it yet.
http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: conradelektro on May 12, 2011, 09:35:58 AM
Having seen the same old sad story a number of times in this forum, I list some telltale signs of a hoax or illusion:

1.) I only have one working OU-device:

A honest, mentally sane and intelligent person would build more than one device, just to be sure it works. Even a poor person can do that, it just would take more time than for a person having some income.

2.) I do not tell all secrets of my OU-device because I have worked so hard and therefore I want to become rich:

There are only two directions an inventor can go, either he gives it away for free or he shuts up and only talks to possible investors. Once we have a whiner and wincer, he has nothing, just a hoax, illusions or fraud. Usually it is a mental flaw, because fraudsters are much more clever, they rip off investors with an elaborate scam.

3.) Strange people threaten me:

The only real pressure is having no working OU-device. One has to make it mysterious and strange to hide that fact. And there will be real pressure in case relatives or friends have given money for an impossible project. In case money was borrowed from banks or investors, legal hassles will start. Also enterprises who have invested effort and money into the OU-device (presented by the inventor as working) will become extremely pissed when nothing comes out of it after a while.

4) There always is the straight forward scam (which is legal): write a book or make a DVD about possible OU-devices repeating mysterious tales and rumors based on strange theories never proven.


The best way of handling a working OU-device:

First you must have a few working models. This is the one and only condition, the rest can be done in many ways.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: khabe on May 12, 2011, 10:01:07 AM
Having seen the same old sad story a number of times in this forum, I list some telltale signs of a hoax or illusion:

1.) I only have one working OU-device:

A honest, mentally sane and intelligent person would build more than one device, just to be sure it works. Even a poor person can do that, it just would take more time than for a person having some income.

2.) I do not tell all secrets of my OU-device because I have worked so hard and therefore I want to become rich:

There are only two directions an inventor can go, either he gives it away for free or he shuts up and only talks to possible investors. Once we have a whiner and wincer, he has nothing, just a hoax, illusions or fraud. Usually it is a mental flaw, because fraudsters are much more clever, they rip off investors with an elaborate scam.

3.) Strange people threaten me:

The only real pressure is having no working OU-device. One has to make it mysterious and strange to hide that fact. And there will be real pressure in case relatives or friends have given money for an impossible project. In case money was borrowed from banks or investors, legal hassles will start. Also enterprises who have invested effort and money into the OU-device (presented by the inventor as working) will become extremely pissed when nothing comes out of it after a while.

4) There always is the straight forward scam (which is legal): write a book or make a DVD about possible OU-devices repeating mysterious tales and rumors based on strange theories never proven.


The best way of handling a working OU-device:

First you must have a few working models. This is the one and only condition, the rest can be done in many ways.

Greetings, Conrad

Impossible to disagree, be to someone liking or not,
cheers,
khabe
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 10:22:33 AM
@Penno64. Re coil winding and voltage problems . Wind a coil with just 10 turns , and measure the output volts . Divide that by 10 to give you VOLTS PER TURN .Now you can easily calculate how many turns are needed to give a given output voltage . With the 10 turn coil running , experiment with other parameters to get the best output .
     @ All . There is a lot of fear and paranoia here . Anyone can put a black suit on . Could it be that "Gary" , disappointed that he could not buy it , just went to the pub on the council estate and hired some guys with a Ford Transit and baseball bats? To me , that sounds a lot more likely than guv-mint suits .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 10:37:19 AM
@Conradelectro .Romero`s device does not tick all your boxes . Assuming you built an OU device , could you contain yourself long enough to build several more . I can not recall Romero hiding any information , he answered all questions . Is it not possible that he complained of "strange people threatening him " because strange people were threatening him?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 12, 2011, 11:14:11 AM
...
     @ All . There is a lot of fear and paranoia here . Anyone can put a black suit on . Could it be that "Gary" , disappointed that he could not buy it , just went to the pub on the council estate and hired some guys with a Ford Transit and baseball bats? To me , that sounds a lot more likely than guv-mint suits .

Yes,  it is likely that a certain "Gary" might have been in the background of the events, see Romero's post here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284715#msg284715 

There happens to be at least two "Gary"s on this forum and it is far from me to accuse anybody. One of the "Gary"s  (Deepcut) happens to live in London, UK.  Again, I do not wish to accuse him of course, it would be good to read his opinion on this.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: penno64 on May 12, 2011, 11:27:39 AM
@Neptune,

Thanks.

Results are getting exceptionally Better - so is my understanding.


Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: toranarod on May 12, 2011, 11:28:02 AM
Hello to all
Been reading all your comments. Some very interesting points raised. I am keeping notes on all things so when I come across this I have a reference its been noticed before.
I am trying to get supplies together to create an exact replication.
I started this project with what ever I could scrounge up from other left over
Projects but as I have moved along its taking on a very serous important
Nature of its own. Every day I go to a bit more effort to get things just right.

The more we study the layout he presented the more we see specific techniques and if you take into account his back ground and previous builds and the expense he went to get to the one he said was OU you start to see some very interesting designs that cannot be ignored.

He changed the disc size twice. This would suggest there is a very important reason for the time intervals between the magnets and the over lap of the surface face of the coils.
This also suggests the gap between the magnets and the coils is related to the duration of the pulse. With my own research on other pulse motors the gap becomes criteria for tuning to improve efficacy.

Then there is the Litz wire that has a major difference to single strand wire. When I was an audio visual technician almost ever TV and Plasma screen had some Litz wire in it some ware. I can also say magnets on coils is nothing new manufactures have been doing it for years tuning coils by place an ferrite magnet on them.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: gyulasun on May 12, 2011, 11:37:21 AM
Dear Rod,

Sterling included this letter on this forum too, 2 pages back or so.

Gyula


EDIT:  The letter was that of Sterling but Rod since wrote another text what is above now.  No problem of course.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: hhobrian on May 12, 2011, 11:41:38 AM
Sterling really posted an email to himself from someone who seems he wanted to be off the radar? wow. I would think an email would suggest he wanted privacy, kind of lame to print that...

Lame
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: conradelektro on May 12, 2011, 11:55:05 AM
@Conradelectro .Romero`s device does not tick all your boxes . Assuming you built an OU device , could you contain yourself long enough to build several more . I can not recall Romero hiding any information , he answered all questions . Is it not possible that he complained of "strange people threatening him " because strange people were threatening him?

Could you contain yourself long enough to build several more? I do not know, I hope so. Usually people can not live with failure, therefore they start dreaming things up. Wishful thinking can afflict everyone.

Because strange people were threatening him? Everything is possible. But being threatened is no proof of a OU-device. When you make strange claims, strange things happen to you. Claiming one has a OU-device should not be done lightly. One could say "please build this (with exact specifications), it seems to be very efficient". Unless other people can replicate it, all bets are off anyway. It is also very helpful with investors if an independent lab can reproduce it. And one can do it with non-disclosure agreements in case one wants to become rich.

A golden rule: It is very difficult to sell a device or to make people believe in a device that does not work as claimed.

Sorry, these type of discussion is not helpful. Over and out, we should replicate not talk. A few people have already build such a device and no results have come forward till now (only rumors and bold claims).

My excuses, Conrad
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 12:26:15 PM
@Penno64. Re coil winding and voltage problems . Wind a coil with just 10 turns , and measure the output volts . Divide that by 10 to give you VOLTS PER TURN .Now you can easily calculate how many turns are needed to give a given output voltage . With the 10 turn coil running , experiment with other parameters to get the best output .
[...]

thanks for that tip, neptune

do you mean to just read the 'raw' AC on a meter or scope?

presumably it gives you a 'ball-park' value as a guide?

when calculating for the final wind you'd then need to include a factor for the FWBR action and losses, and also the effect of the load

cheers
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 01:25:42 PM
@nul-points .Yes I would read the raw AC on a meter . I do not have a scope . I had one that was old and simple , but the "magic smoke" escapes and it has not worked since .Re the bridge rectifier .the techniques I described for coil winding were developed years ago when i was into wind turbines .If you are using a bridge rectifier to charge a lead acid battery , the bridge actually seems to increase the voltage . Probably due to the capacitance of the battery .Don't ask me about mathematical queries , I am more a practical man who graduated at the University of hard knocks .Thus I am qualified to do anything with next to nothing . Think of me as an Idiot Savant with more emphasis on the former than the latter .
        As regards the naysayers , all I will say is this . You may be right . Statistics are on your side . However let us not discourage the guys who are spending loads of time and money on this . The standard of workmanship of some of you guys is truly amazing .If the magic is out there these guys will find it .Alternatively we can say nothing will ever work lets forget about it and carry on in our ignorance and slavery .
@Loner . Agree with most of what you say ,but remembber that the output is not simple AC but 7 sinewaves , sperated by about 50 degrees of phase shift . Not sure if you can therefore use a Cockcroft Multiplier type voltage doubler .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 12, 2011, 03:07:17 PM
        As regards the naysayers , all I will say is this ...

Well, I am here to show my support of the builders. If I were more experienced or got some good amount of spare time, I would definitely join the builders right now.

I studied the theories of Adams motor, and it seems to me Romero's variant of Muller Dynamo works on similar OU principal. It is said that one should better go with ferrite magnets when building Adams motor, but Muller's design of odd/even magnet arrangements on the rotor and stator overcomes the strong cogging effects of neomagnets. Once that strong cogging is subdued, Adams motor build with strong magnets can MAGNIFY the OU effect to produce a lot of usable free energy. One of Romero's great contributions in my assessment is this: he arranged all magnets on the rotor in the same polarity, thus greatly simplified the control circuitry, making it so easy to replicate.

Plus, Romero's dynamo is operating in a sub-optimal condition, and it seems to me there is a lot of room for improvement, and that the device probably allows a wide range of component parameters to function in OU mode. Therefore I am very optimistic that the replicators here would succeed. That said, I think I agree with many of you here that we should stick to a good replication as close as we can to increase our chance of success.


T H E  W O R L D  W O N ' T  B E  T H E  S A M E

because of Romero and his kind of people!!!


lanenal
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 03:20:26 PM
@nul-points
[...]
but the "magic smoke" escapes and it has not worked since
[...]
@Loner . Agree with most of what you say ,but remember that the output is not simple AC but 7 sinewaves , separated by about 50 degrees of phase shift . Not sure if you can therefore use a Cockcroft Multiplier type voltage doubler .

LOL at thoughts of all the magic smoke I'VE ever set free from components!

BUT - did you know that you can now get magic smoke in cans?!?

it's true - i've seen guys wandering around with them in offices at work, testing smoke detectors

now if we could only spray that smoke back into the bl..dy components...!


we should adopt your saying as the motto for Free Energy experimenters everywhere: "Qualified to Do Anything with Nothing"


i can't find Loners post relating to the Cockcroft circuit?!? is that the post he deleted?

i do know (from experience) that the CVM is VERY inefficient - was originally invented just to achieve v high voltages, not as a voltage-boost power supply - the amount of i/p energy it required wasn't an issue for the High-Voltage research to which it was first applied

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 03:30:40 PM
Hi nul-point. Loner does not call it a Cockroft multiplier he just calls it a voltage doubler .Come to think of it , the term probably died out before World War 2 .That is what happens when as a kid with no money you educate yourself from books found in rubbish skips .We know it better today as a simple voltage doubler circuit , of the type used in microwave ovens . It consists of just diodes and capacitors ,the number of each depending on how much voltage multiplication you need .I like the canned magic smoke !
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 03:47:24 PM
I think the original origin of doing something with nothing is actully " I've done so much with so little for so long, that now I can do almost anything with nothing"
Why not start a data base that everyone can refer to which is a gathering of known to be facts, or at least best guess data about the Romero project. As example: How many magnet poles; coils; polarity; wind direction. number of turns on the coils; wire gauge; core materials; circuits; suggestions etc. In looking at the video again. Yes it looks like Rom had 9 coils and 8 magnets. This is a good choice for less cogging but I think if you look into the matter you might find the more cogging points the less drag. Not to sure about that but winding calculators for generators show 72 cogging points for the 9/8 combo and 90 for a combination of 9 coils and 10 magnets. I think basically the more cogging points you have, the smoother the rotation. I could be wrong. I guess what I'm saing is I agree with those who say the Rom project might not have been optimzed as well as it could have been. I think using strong magnets can be compensated for by moving them away from the cores to find the right amount of saturation for the application.
Just a couple thoughts.
John H (DadHav)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 12, 2011, 04:01:05 PM
...I guess what I'm saing is I agree with those who say the Rom project might not have been optimzed as well as it could have been.
John H (DadHav)

Maybe it is worthwhile to point out that Romero posted a few more changes to his videoed self-running dynamo with improved results.

lanenal
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 04:01:31 PM
[...]
Why not start a data base that everyone can refer to which is a gathering of known to be facts
[...]
John H (DadHav)

hi John

Stefan has compiled a PDF & diags into the 1st page of this thread

most info okayed by Romero up til his departure

interesting info about the cogging,  some replication variations might give more data for that

cheers
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 04:04:51 PM
Maybe it is worthwhile to point out that Romero posted a few more changes to his videoed self-running dynamo with improved results.

lanenal

good point

for the benefit of John & other new arrivals, Romero's last few updates were to increase coil & core size and add ferrite mags on top of the stator neos - all of which he reported as improvements

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: David70 on May 12, 2011, 04:09:12 PM
I am not the only one who tested and confirmed Kromrey design.
In my setup I have no moving coils, the magnets are turning.No rings, less friction....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTDGtSKrLPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCJKCXXZb-Y&feature=related
the second video people should pay attention and understand ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX-PsJZzri8&feature=related
I have been looking again to the posts from the begining and I found this one regarding the second link.
What if that applies here to one coil or more?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 12, 2011, 04:20:35 PM
Could someone here do me a favor? I can't watch those youtube videos in China. If somebody could download the video and upload it somewhere for me or email to me? I will upload it to a video website within China (such as www.tudou.com and www.youku.com, as they are in Chinese) so that even if Stefan's backup on youtube is removed someday, you can still have access to it from those sites in China.

lanenal
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: lanenal on May 12, 2011, 04:35:01 PM
The hardcore builders were pretty efficient when it came to pulling all the info and study down. There were only a few really. Few new people have worked with this as time is a big factor to build this devise and as you said little to no info is remaining.

Regretfully, Romero didn't provide a scope shot showing the exact timing of his working device as I have asked of him...it just happened way too soon. But the bright side is, we have close-up pictures taken of the sensors position, which Romero kindly provided for us.

lanenal
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: caccr2000 on May 12, 2011, 05:07:16 PM
bueno estoy haciendo un mini montaje para hacer las pruebas para comprobar por mi mismo los resultados de romero asi no estar devariando como muchos aqui en este foro y quejandose

tanto analizar he visto que el esquema es como un ciclo lunar dejo el archivo de excell con el que estoy trabajando en el montaje  de los imanes lo estoy haciendo de dos formas a la vez

con rotor de 8 imanes y en los estatores de 9 bobinas y otro que estoy montando a la vez con rotor 8 imanes y en los estatores de 11 bobinas espero que por las cargas que ejerce la luna en los ciclos de los resultados positivos dando asi la veracidad que plantea romero

agradezco a los que creen en un cambio de vidas en general y las apreciaciones de romero y sus amigos

atentamente

cash

clave del archivo

ENERGIALIBRE
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 12, 2011, 05:11:49 PM
INFO...
RomeoUK + Muller = 10w / 12v free energy !!!    Full VIDEO , HD video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d70lPmW0lto
FREE ENERGY = FREE INFO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 NOO PASVORD.....
PEACE...
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/PJKBook.html
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wattsup on May 12, 2011, 05:29:11 PM
Hmmmmm. By the looks of it, I was convinced this thread would have hit 500 pages before the TK thread. lol

Whoever is replicating this device just know that you do not require to have the exact build for this to work. There are some main principles to adhere to and that's all.

I am very happy that @romerouk took it upon himself to bring this forward. I don't believe the fake story. This is simply a guy that does not want the limelight and surely does not want to hear from f&*kheads or Men in Bra's, so I just thank him for what he brought forward and respect his wishes to remain out of it.

I takes someone with a concrete gut, a will and resolve of steel all mixed with the intellect and sensitivities required to work in OU. Someone who will not panic at the first signs of adversity, and who even feeds off the fear mongering of others.

But it is really preparation. Don't just make a damn youtube claiming OU and then expect a cool quiet response. Make the video yes, but keep it in your pocket while you prepare your FULL DISCLOSURE, including video, photos, diagrams, specifications and build specs, the whole shebang has to be ready to be published all at once. That way, you will not have to answer any questions because it will all be in the information provided. Then put on your Rhino suit because you will need some thicker skin to pass the first month or so.

The main point in disclosing is to get everything out in ONE SHOT into several medium points that cannot be removed. If you leave any opening at all for further required KEY information to be published, then you are setting yourself up for others to try and stop you before this is accomplished. If you publish completely, then the Men in Bra's will have no power, interest or ability to stop you.

The idea of making more then one device is good but only when practical. Once it is published, you can always send the device to a known public person in the OU field as this will again reinforce your disclosure and let the BraHeads know the device is no longer in your hands but in someones who is publicly more visible and apt to not be impressed by potential threats.

wattsup
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 12, 2011, 05:31:23 PM
I have been looking again to the posts from the begining and I found this one regarding the second link.
What if that applies here to one coil or more?

Hi David
what a great post, I have posted it on the new thread  ;D
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10716.msg285945#new
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 12, 2011, 05:34:33 PM
A Better Driver:

In a shoot out of the posted driver circuit and a Mosfet with gate driver I obtained the following results...(with one double coil drive)

Posted circuit with A1103 Hall and a TIP34a...288 RPM

FET circuit...380 RPM

If anyone wishes to duplicate this, to test my results go right ahead...

Ron

R1 = 20 ohms

R2 = 6K8

How it works:  The output from the Hall device is inverted logic. That is when the magnet is over the hall the output goes to zero (logic 0)

The TC4421 is an inverting driver which then inverts this to a logic 1 for the gate of the mosfet. A TC4426 would also be suitable (double driver)
 

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 05:43:49 PM
@nul-points . You said that romero made improvements after making the videos . You mentioned that he tested one new coil with a larger diameter core and more turns . He also tried cardboard shims between the stator magnets and the cores working on one coil at a time and thus made a significant reduction in the input power . I noticed on re reading a previous post that you say the Cockcroft circuit is inefficient .Duly noted . There have been various methods suggested to do away with the DC-Dc converter . The simplest one to try is the Pese idea of a 12 watt bulb in series with the drive motor . Loner has some excellent ideas too . In my opinion , the ultimate is to reduce the number of turns on the coils to give the correct motor voltage . So when you wind your coils , do the VOLTS PER TURN test as I described earlier . Put on more turns that you need initially . Keep a note of how many turns you use . It is then easy to calculate how many turns to remove to arrive at a desired voltage . Re model aircraft motors of the Turnigy type . These motors are likely to be very efficient , as electric propulsion systems are trying hard to compete with IC engines . However , they are designed to work with a speed controller module which plugs into the plane`s radio controll reciever . They are not cheap . so do not invest unless you know what you are doing . If you plan to rewind one as an OU generator , try contacting your local model aircraft club . You might beg a burnt out one .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on May 12, 2011, 05:51:46 PM
info...
corect...
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: wopwops on May 12, 2011, 06:08:05 PM
Do you guys know that DadHav is an extremely skilled builder? Check out his YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 12, 2011, 06:30:38 PM
bueno estoy haciendo un mini montaje para hacer las pruebas para comprobar por mi mismo los resultados de romero asi no estar devariando como muchos aqui en este foro y quejandose

tanto analizar he visto que el esquema es como un ciclo lunar dejo el archivo de excell con el que estoy trabajando en el montaje  de los imanes lo estoy haciendo de dos formas a la vez

con rotor de 8 imanes y en los estatores de 9 bobinas y otro que estoy montando a la vez con rotor 8 imanes y en los estatores de 11 bobinas espero que por las cargas que ejerce la luna en los ciclos de los resultados positivos dando asi la veracidad que plantea romero

agradezco a los que creen en un cambio de vidas en general y las apreciaciones de romero y sus amigos

atentamente

cash

clave del archivo

ENERGIALIBRE

Translated per Google translate:

well I'm doing a mini assembly for testing to see for myself the results of rosemary so Devaria not be as many here in this forum and complaining

 I therefore determine that the scheme is seen as a lunar cycle left the excel file with which I am working on the assembly of the magnets I'm doing in two ways at once

 8-magnet rotor and the stator coils 9 and one I'm riding at a time with 8 rotor magnets and the stator windings 11 I hope that loads exerted by the moon cycles thus giving positive results veracity raised rosemary

 thank those who believe in a change of life in general and the findings of rosemary and friends

 carefully

 cash

 key file

 ENERGIALIBRE
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 12, 2011, 06:51:44 PM
Could someone here do me a favor? I can't watch those youtube videos in China. If somebody could download the video and upload it somewhere for me or email to me? I will upload it to a video website within China (such as www.tudou.com and www.youku.com, as they are in Chinese) so that even if Stefan's backup on youtube is removed someday, you can still have access to it from those sites in China.

lanenal

lanenal,  Here you go from a file sharing service (it's an .flv):  http://www.sendspace.com/file/n370ix

Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: caccr2000 on May 12, 2011, 07:04:47 PM
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MNQDGRPB
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 07:06:40 PM
Thank's WopWop. I should have introduced myself and invited everyone to my channel but I didn't want anyone to think I was drumming up viewers. Fact of the mater is I've done a lot of experiments with stator motors which are a larger version of the popular R/C airplane motor. One of them particularly became very controversial because I couldn't explain things well enough in a 10 minute video. If you are interested in seeing one of these larger motors you are certainly welcome: http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/2/nlO8UDsc-Fc
Back to the subject. I'm sorry it takes me a long time to catch up (I'm old) I read the PDF at the beginning of the thread. It's more complete than most instructions I've seen on similar projects. It was easy to see Rom was loosing his patients a little by the end of the document. I don't blame him. The place I'm still lost is everything on the PDF shows a driver circuit and coils on the generator. At some point did Rom switch to the DC motor I see in the video? I see no way to get a radiant event out of the standard generator coils, wether the rotor is driven by the four coils on the motor or a separate motor. The generator itself is very similar to many Axial Flux generators used for wind power. Some of these use a metal flux plate behind the coils much like the washer used in Rom's motor. I can't remember ever seeing an additional magnet behind the flux plate/ring though. So I'm wondering if Rom stumbled on something just a little different that doesn't require a radiant event or collapsing Bloch wall in a core to bring a device to unity or over. Am I missing the point there also? The PDF looks like it's plenty enough to get started on something.
Thank you
John H (DadHav)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 07:14:39 PM
...i don't think much was made of this earlier, before Romero's exit, but here's a couple of nuggets from the man himself (in happier days):-

a) a "DC-DC converter is a must"

b) he reported trying to loopback his device (just before getting a DC converter) and he said that the voltage started to increase and the coils began to overheat
(resulting in converter recommendation from Gyula)

what R was experiencing was 'runaway' - this is another v. strong indicator for OU

i know that those of us attempting to replicate his achievement don't need any additional motivation

but there are others who have jumped on Romero's 'confession' with glee, claiming it as proof of a fake

i say that the evidence is still good that Romero achieved exactly what he presented originally in his "Muller Dynamo self-running test 1" video

may the Force (x Distance) be with you
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: e2matrix on May 12, 2011, 07:35:11 PM
DadHav,  Very very nice builds and craftsmanship.  While there are some good and I think valid theories on why Romero's device is OU we may not know for sure until some more replications are done.  The more builds done with slight variations in builds the more likely we can see what actually produces the results from both the successes and failures.  Judging form the quality I see in your builds I think you could be a very valuable asset in this investigation of OU.  Thanks for joining in here.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: chrisC on May 12, 2011, 07:49:20 PM
Thank's WopWop. I should have introduced myself and invited everyone to my channel but I didn't want anyone to think I was drumming up viewers. Fact of the mater is I've done a lot of experiments with stator motors which are a larger version of the popular R/C airplane motor. One of them particularly became very controversial because I couldn't explain things well enough in a 10 minute video. If you are interested in seeing one of these larger motors you are certainly welcome: http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/2/nlO8UDsc-Fc
Back to the subject. I'm sorry it takes me a long time to catch up (I'm old) I read the PDF at the beginning of the thread. It's more complete than most instructions I've seen on similar projects. It was easy to see Rom was loosing his patients a little by the end of the document. I don't blame him. The place I'm still lost is everything on the PDF shows a driver circuit and coils on the generator. At some point did Rom switch to the DC motor I see in the video? I see no way to get a radiant event out of the standard generator coils, wether the rotor is driven by the four coils on the motor or a separate motor. The generator itself is very similar to many Axial Flux generators used for wind power. Some of these use a metal flux plate behind the coils much like the washer used in Rom's motor. I can't remember ever seeing an additional magnet behind the flux plate/ring though. So I'm wondering if Rom stumbled on something just a little different that doesn't require a radiant event or collapsing Bloch wall in a core to bring a device to unity or over. Am I missing the point there also? The PDF looks like it's plenty enough to get started on something.
Thank you
John H (DadHav)

Thanks John for introducing us to your many experiments and hands-on ability on youTube. Blessed with the mind, spirit and equipment, I think you're a perfect candidate to try replicate Romero's setup. Looking forward to your participation if you have the interest - maybe Romero may have just discovered an anomaly not previously discovered?

cheers
chrisC
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 07:49:38 PM
 Welcome Dadhav . the machine has 8 magnets and 9 coil pairs . 2 coil pairs form the motor . 7 pairs are generator coils . Apart from initial tuning the gen is not driven by an external motor .The gen differs from axial flux turbine gen as follows . The number of magnets is different from the number of coils . coil cores are ferrite . The magnetic circuits are open not closed . Each coil pair has its own bridge rectifier , the outputs of these bridge rectifiers being connected in parallel Feedback is regulated by a DC-DC converter.Hope this helps .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 07:52:47 PM
Thanks e2. I'm ready to prototype a hybrid R/C aero motor then I'll be clear to try something else. God gave two eyes, two ears and a big brain but we don't use that part very much. I'll do some watching, listening and thinking for a while. Who knows. Maybe I'll end up being a Hero member some day.
Thank you.
John H (DadHav)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 08:06:42 PM
[...]
Who knows. Maybe I'll end up being a Hero member some day.
Thank you.
John H (DadHav)

welcome John,

as i'm sure you're well aware,  you don't need a lot of stars, in the army, to be a hero!  ;)

that's an impressive and interesting video (much like your lab!)

thanks for sharing - hope you find something to interest you here


chrisC
Romero was quick to point out that he was just replicating earlier work by Bill Muller (and possibly other replicators)

that's not to detract from what he achieved - that just speaks to the sort of person he was

whoever kicked it all off - let's hope that you're right about it being a previously unknown (or unrecognised) effect

all the best guys
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: i_ron on May 12, 2011, 08:23:59 PM
.

what R was experiencing was 'runaway' - this is another v. strong indicator for OU




/url]


THE SMOKING GUN

"what Romero was experiencing was 'runaway' - this is another v. strong indicator for OU"

To the point that his coils started to melt!

Thanks nul-points... so many of us missed that.

Ron
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 08:49:48 PM
[...]
Thanks nul-points... so many of us missed that.

Ron

i don't think people missed it

when i said "not much was made of it" it was because we then saw Romero's video of the self-run and all other evidence at that time was subsiduary

however, we've since been subjected to a succession of people insisting that there were batteries hidden in Romero's underpants

hence my re-iteration of something else Romero reported early on which supports the view that this wasn't a fake - and which hasn't been pointed out (AFAIK) to all the kind souls who came to cheer at Romero's departure
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 08:56:56 PM
At some stage during initial testing you will need to drive this with an external motor . It is also quite possible that if you can find an efficient enough drive motor , Looping will be possible . If it is just for testing , transmission losses are not important and a belt drive may suffice .This has the advantage of allowing different speed ratios . Small DC motors can be efficient , but in some applications efficiency has been sacrificed to reduce initial costs . Brushed DC permanent magnet motors are capable of efficiencies between75 and 80% . Brushless DC motors can Be 80 to90% efficient and above , but at the cost of added complexity and expense .They are effectively a 3 phase motor , and have to include a module to covert DC to 3 phase AC .Apparently they can be found inCD and CD Rom drives , some office fans ,laser printers and photo copiers . If you try to obtain them from scrap be sure to get the module as well . Main source -The WIKIpedia article entitled Electric Motor .
@I-ron . Caution . Smoking can seriously damage your drive coils !
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: starcruiser on May 12, 2011, 09:07:23 PM
I play with model aircraft and use similar motors to the Turnigy series. the ESC or Electronic Speed Controller, can be found for less than $50 usd. cost is dependent on the current rating of the ESC. I can locate some at hobbyking.com for like $30, look there for some drives and motors (brushed and brushless) if you are interested.

Most of these brushless motors are really efficient 80+ % and can be run on battery voltages of <4v to over 50v. they usually link them to lithium polymer (LIPO) batteries due to their small footprint and high current sourcing abilities.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 09:16:43 PM
Guys. I can be some help here. It is easy and less expensive than you think to drive an R/C airplane motor or any other three phase motor of that type. You may have to deal with China if you want the best prices. If you check a site like HobbyCity you can find hudreds of motors, and speed controls. Yes, they are three phase and require the speed control. Normally the speed control needs to plug into a receiver for drive control, but you can buy what is called a servo tester for less than $10 and drive the speed control right from that. I have an 80 amp speed control that I only paid $17 for but you can buy something like 20 amp controls for again $10. I'd be surprised if you if you couldnt find a complete setupf for $40-50. Wait. maybe that's to expensive. If you want to see how the setup works without being in an airlplane you can see it on this video. http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/1/e0q8DDtjvMY
Hope this might help
John H (DadHav)
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 09:30:27 PM
I play with model aircraft and use similar motors to the Turnigy series. the ESC or Electronic Speed Controller, can be found for less than $50 usd. cost is dependent on the current rating of the ESC. I can locate some at hobbyking.com for like $30, look there for some drives and motors (brushed and brushless) if you are interested.

Most of these brushless motors are really efficient 80+ % and can be run on battery voltages of <4v to over 50v. they usually link them to lithium polymer (LIPO) batteries due to their small footprint and high current sourcing abilities.

Sorry Star. Your post must have went up while I was writing mine. I wouldn't have barged in if I saw yours first. Nice of you to help out if people are interested. You might have to take a close look at the KV rating of the motor right? It looked like Rom's motor wasn't running real high RPM's. Does anyone know about what range the target would be?
John
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 09:37:22 PM
[...]
If you want to see how the setup works without being in an airlplane you can see it on this video. http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/1/e0q8DDtjvMY
Hope this might help
John H (DadHav)

blimey - you don't want to be the wrong end of the runway, with one of those puppys approaching!!

wrt Romero's device, iirc someone mentioned in the region of 3000rpm

hth
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: libra_spirit on May 12, 2011, 09:38:53 PM
I have only read through about 1/3 of these posts, but I did not see anyone studying the vibrational characteristics of this motor/generator.

9 stator coils   8 magnets on the rotor

One rotation will produce

Coil pulses 8

Magnet pulses 9

Total pulses 72

At 5000 RPM which is 83.3 Hz, there will be a frequency of 6000 Hz generated on the rotor. Half the magnets will be retarding and half will be pulling and two will be neutral.

Each coil will receive 8 pulses, and each magnet will receive 9 pulses per rotation.

Coil pulse frequency will be 666.6 Hz

Magnet pulse frequency 750 Hz

The strong magnetic field will be moving in the reverse direction of the rotor at 8 times the RPM. It will also be moving along the coils at 9x the rpm, in the reverse direction of the rotors motion.

Are my numbers correct?

Dave L



Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: phoneboy on May 12, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
Just a thought regarding the posts stating the runaway problem, didn't Muller also work on a thermo electric gen? Some of the replicators were speaking of using hollow ferrite bullets, if the bullets work, you could loop water or oil through them to cool the coils and at worst just use the heat for heating??
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: nul-points on May 12, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
I have only read through about 1/3 of these posts, but I did not see anyone studying the vibrational characteristics of this motor/generator.
[...]
Are my numbers correct?

Dave L

hi Dave

as one Libra to another, some of us have been attempting to get to grips with this, although i have to 'fess up and say that my contribution to the off-thread discussions has been with my hands over my eyes, under a paper bag over my head

however, one of the more intellectually gifted members of the team had started on the long and (coil) winding road of explaining (to me, at least) that there was even such a thing as a 'rotating magnetic field'

he did mention that 8X rpm ratio but shortly afterwards my other brain cell overheated and i started dreaming of a cold beer, i believe

tell us more about these things please

np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: DadHav on May 12, 2011, 10:01:01 PM
I have only read through about 1/3 of these posts, but I did not see anyone studying the vibrational characteristics of this motor/generator.

9 stator coils   8 magnets on the rotor

One rotation will produce

Coil pulses 8

Magnet pulses 9

Total pulses 72

At 5000 RPM which is 83.3 Hz, there will be a frequency of 6000 Hz generated on the rotor. Half the magnets will be retarding and half will be pulling and two will be neutral.

Each coil will receive 8 pulses, and each magnet will receive 9 pulses per rotation.

Coil pulse frequency will be 666.6 Hz

Magnet pulse frequency 750 Hz

The strong magnetic field will be moving in the reverse direction of the rotor at 8 times the RPM. It will also be moving along the coils at 9x the rpm, in the reverse direction of the rotors motion.

Are my numbers correct?

Dave L

72 is correct I think and coralates directly to the number or cogs per revelution. With 10 magnets you would have 90, but is that good or bad?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: Dbowling on May 12, 2011, 10:08:04 PM
As we experiment with different magnet configurations on the coils, it is important that we be able to rotate the motor using a dc motor and controller at a fixed voltage, so that we can see if different magnet configurations on the coils increase or decrease the rpms of the motor. Has anyone any info on which coils had magnets, and how many? It is impossible to tell from the pictures I have seen so far, but as I locate more pictures, I accumulate more information. At some point we need to put together a diagram of the top and bottom coils and start talking about which ones have magnets on them and how many, and which ones have no magnets. You can see ALL the top coils in one of the pictures, but not the bottom coils. Perhaps they are a reversed mirror image, as in the coils that have two agnets on the top coil have no magnets on the bottom coil. I suppose tie will tell.
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 10:26:47 PM
@Dbowling . As far as i know , Romero did not fit magnets to all coils as he ran out of magnets . No magnets are fitted to drive coils either top or bottom . So he intended that all top and bottom generator coils should have magnets . Note that either through necessity or design , some of these coil magnets are only half thickness , that is , 29mm x 5mm . someone correct me if I am wrong .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: neptune on May 12, 2011, 10:29:38 PM
@Libra-spirit . Three of us have been considering a theory close to yours in private ,And as it was not my original idea I will leave the disclosure to others . I think this is very significant .
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: powercat on May 12, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
This picture shows magnets on top of (some) of the coils, is this part of tuning?
How many magnets on top of coils are they on the underside ?
Title: Re: Muller Dynamo
Post by: caccr2000 on May 12, 2011, 10:41:42 PM
e pensado en utilizar este circuito como prueba en cada bobina para ver su comportamiento

Convertidor DC-DC de 1.5V a 15V

 
Este circuito es esencialmente un convertidor DC-DC elevador (step up), permite obtener 15 voltios de salida a partir de una simple pila de 1.5 voltios (B1) sin necesidad de utilizar transformadores ni circuitos integrados especializados. El corazón del circuito es un oscilador, desarrollado alrededor de dos transistores complementarios (Q1 y Q2), que gobierna una bobina (L1).

Al conectar B1, circula inicialmente una corriente a través de R2 y R1, causando que Q1 y Q2 conduzcan. Como resultado, L1 es atravesada por una corriente que magnetiza progresivamente su núcleo hasta saturarlo. Cuando esto sucede, cesa interiormente el flujo de corriente y el campo magnético que rodea la bobina colapsa, generándose una fuerza contraelectromotriz (fcem) que polariza inversamente la base de Q1. Como resultado, Q1 y Q2 dejan de conducir. El proceso se repite indefinidamente.

La energía d