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Author Topic: Kapanadze and other FE discussion  (Read 1186455 times)

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3030 on: October 02, 2023, 09:48:59 AM »
personal,individual,freedom
 ' Made in ...'
 U.S. Republicans and Democrats
Hollywood,actors on strike...
If this style seems progressive to someone, then my opinion based on your postings is this:
- completely offtopic. No information regarding Kapanadze's devices or Wesley's research.
If I started dragging info scam from the Internet into all topics, the forum would be torn to pieces.
We are not enough old to descend to the level of conversation between two senior in a pub.
 Wesley, please act as a moderator.

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3031 on: October 03, 2023, 01:43:20 AM »
1 drop of water may turn into powerful explosion.
To save you time I will point  at material that can be skipped or partially viewed.
 ______________________________________
The phenomena is largely unknown to engineering community and totally  unknown  to most of the audience here.
Quote:
 History of Water Arc Explosions
Quote
The unusual strength of explosions caused by a pulsed current flowing through water plasma was first noticed in 1907
by Trowbridge [ 11 in his early high voltage laboratory at Harvard University   
explosion is not caused by heat and steam  ! and can easily cause rock fragmentation !
more of it is in the link:_Water_Arc_and_Dielectric_Breakdown/Granea The Anomalous
__________________________________________________________________
1. First video to watch for 1 minute only.
Dr Jaynes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGecOw5UKQ
2. second video to watch for 1 minute only.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyBahrxRxNw
3. third  video to watch is
You may watch it fully but if you want to  get to specific than watch from here :
https://youtu.be/qkLGSCXOxi8?t=732
The subject is related to catastrophic explosions in power  line transformers, houses, people next to electrical circuits, street manholes etc.
Right  amount of water  drops  into the spark triggers the phenomena.
I may present  you more material  later and formulate questions and comments.
I may also decide to delete this particular comment, - will see...........................

This article provides  partial answer to  Kolbacict   question formulated  by his  curators week ago
when, why, and what .
-in relation to resonating load, if we  use A to B energy transfer to an object that at some point of its internal structure
will always have the required conditions - especially related to  objects at the surface of the sea.


Wesley
« Last Edit: November 06, 2023, 11:15:21 PM by stivep »

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3032 on: October 03, 2023, 10:27:11 AM »
1. First video to watch for 1 minute only.
Dr Jaynes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGecOw5UKQ

Hello Wesley!

Thank you for writing messages relevant to the topic.

Regarding capacitor discharges in water.
This direction was discussed on free energy forums. In the ex-USSR environment this is called the “Yutkin Effect”.
https://habr-com.translate.goog/ru/companies/ruvds/articles/556530/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

Here is Yutkin's .pdf book  about various types and technologies of discharge in water, you can download the file and translate it via Google Translator as a "Document":

http://bourabai.ru/library/elektrogidravlicheski_effekt.pdf

About Dr Jaynes video of capacitor discharge 

From the video it is clear that Dr Jaynes uses a 2400 microfarad capacitor, charged to a voltage of 330 volts. Using the formula for calculating the energy of a capacitor, we obtain a discharge energy of 130 Joules. This is quite a lot of capacitor energy.

As a child, I played with capacitors, discharging them with a screwdriver. I can tell you with 100% confidence that if you discharge such a 2400 microfarad 330 volt capacitor with a screwdriver, there will be a very loud sound and a lot of sparks. The sound will be so loud that you may go deaf for a while.
And all this WITHOUT WATER!

The mistake of Dr Jaynes is that it was necessary to make video about discharge of the same capacitor, charged to the same voltage, with the same electrodes, but without water. Just short-circuit the electrodes with a piece of metal. I'm sure the effect would be the same. However, you can search for discharges of capacitors similar in voltage and capacitance on YouTube or experiment yourself, observing safety precautions. After several such discharges, the capacitor will probably become unusable. Internal connections may melt and break.
For example, here you can see a discharge capacitor with 2 times less capacity and unknown voltage charged:
https://youtube.com/shorts/MQ8_zJmTabs

It is the basic rule. If you have obtained some interesting effect and explained it theoretically, then remove the main element and repeat the experiment. If the effect remains the same, your theoretical explanation has been proven wrong.

My conclusion: - Simple capacitor discharges in water are unlikely to be a source of free energy. But:

1. Similar discharge can be used as a tool for creating high pulse pressure for other areas of searching for free energy. This is something I thought about earlier. The problem is that the capacitor discharge needs to be serialized somehow. Significant energy consumption.

2. You can use a capacitor discharge in a nanostructured substance. To make it clear, for example, a discharge in wet wood or even in a cucumber or melon. Funny. But, cellular tissue consists of many ultrathin membranes. With a sharp short pulse of current, an ion shock occurs on these membranes. Anything can happen here. According to rumors, LENR was expected. Short powerful pulses are needed, with enough energy to balance at a level sufficient for LENR but not enough to burn the membranes.
Expected form of free energy:
- low-temperature thermal energy, up to +40 degrees Celsius. If you try to get a higher temperature, the membranes may cook and become unusable.
- low-voltage current pulses, much longer than discharge pulses.

kolbacict

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3033 on: October 03, 2023, 01:13:15 PM »

1. Similar discharge can be used as a tool for creating high pulse pressure
Is it possible to make diamonds using this method ?
Let's make diamonds, lots and lots of them. Then I'll go to New York and buy out Wesley's laboratory... 8)

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3034 on: October 03, 2023, 01:18:59 PM »
Sergh thank you very much - fascinating subject.
I do thank you for  your contributing material.
If you  have the original link to Dr Yutkin  translation you posted I'll be happy to read it.
Please post it . Russian language is no problem for me any longer.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki\

The audience here  doesn't yet see the importance and  value of it, I think.
On the other hand some application of it  may not be suitable to be publicly  discussed, unless we switch
into a very much technicality of it.

Here is the example of  format of technicality comfortable to be used in this forum:
It was increasingly thrilling to look at DUT behavior  similar to that  presented in video, but its culmination was
looking at the same DUT from the distance of ~5 km with use of  "A to B."
No significant losses were  noticed, even  more - we were  under impression  that something is amplifying the effect.
We didn't  have time to try it in Costa Rica., but  I ordered it to be tried in Baltic sea .
They couldn't  conform  if there  was  "amplification" but I was told that  for an eye it look shockingly unexplained.
At land  there were cameras and  watching the load (DUT) technician, but effect at sea is many times stronger or just look stronger
many times. Salinity  of the water helps "A to B"  over distance but  The  same DUT at sea simply vaporized.
The first test  was provided along the coast line  Gdansk, Gdynia, Orlowo in Trojmiasto - this was easy :
Test A -  coast to coast over curvature. No  deep water, relatively  quiet surface between "A to B" distance more than 5km in line of sight
              ( not to many people walking on the sand )
Test B-   the second test was   coast to sea - actually not  exactly like that - there is curved coast line  but DUT was at sea.
   That is one of the reasons I  become interested with Salt Lake City:- easiness of  any tests.
   https://www.utah.com/destinations/natural-areas/bonneville-salt-flats/

 Russia or  Uzbekistan ( the most perfect  test site) is not accessible to  me for obvious reasons.


opinion expressed is  my own

Wesley
« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 09:46:27 PM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3035 on: October 03, 2023, 02:20:12 PM »
Note: related to my comment  from above.at the test in Trojmiasto
- Test B- didn't try yet voice communication "A to B" nor video "A to B."
- no modulated carrier was ever tested by me yet,  that is
of  course if we exclude High Energy Pulse after "A to B" is established.
But that is easy.  It is  not really high energy but  the short time condensed
impulse that could come from regular 12V/15AH bat  similar to  the one  created in radar.
https://www.atlantis-press.com/article/25848415.pdf
Quote
The pulse generating circuit which can generate the pulse signal with the frequency 22.5kHz, the period 44.4s and the pulse width of 19.5s

However, the impulse   created was many times shorter and by that more powerful. 
HV come from the secondary of the Tesla air transformer.
Actually once H2O is affected the length of the impulse is not important any longer. 
The goal is to satisfy the H2O process described above. 
Frequency applied  to DUT doesn't apply to the entire structure of the load,- instead   
only its resonating part becomes a load. But then the Rx impedance match becomes critical. 
So very large DUT are quite good. 
The procedure  requires quite fast scanning.
It is normal that  seen resonance is not present in the next scan 
So impulse injection  needs to be done immediately when Resonating Load Condition is  established. 
Note: 50 ohm is no longer impedance standard for "A to B" so transmatch or automatic transmatch  is required at Tx site.

Test B: floating  base with no crew  .
Means of documenting  were established with traditional wireless methods.
one "in the air " in close vicinity but not too close .
( limitation: only 45 minutes from start to end of documenting time frame with resolution of 4k)
and  second  at 2m band.
Resonating Load  DUT disintegrated quite rapidly ,along with entire floating test base
as result of the process involving H2O in the right proportion.
opinion expressed is my own
Wesley
« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 01:36:09 AM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3036 on: October 04, 2023, 02:51:59 AM »
Basis we can discuss freely in the article many of you missed to read.
I repeat it again:
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Electrolysis_Water_Arc_and_Dielectric_Breakdown/Graneau%20-Reference_Material/Electrolysis_Water_Arc_and_Dielectric_Breakdown/Graneau
Let me know it it doesn't open for you.

You do not need to be physicist to read:
Quote
Twin City Mining Research Center noticed that the energy output was apparently 156% of the input.
This translates to  simple enough for an average reader analogy
$100 in every 0.01s turns into $156
- loss= +56 per 0.01s
But that was only preliminary reading scientists didn't have explanation of.
There is much much more in the article.
Wesley
« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 12:21:00 PM by stivep »

kolbacict

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3037 on: October 04, 2023, 10:50:52 AM »
Wesley, please act as a moderator.
Yes. flood is not very well. I agree.
But is it much more better when after some time the topics simply had gone into oblivion ?
How did we get excited about Zografos, and where is it now? Or about Kapanadze’s green box, just recently.And so on everywhere, no result.
p.s.
By the way, the mouse promised me a translation of this picture, his version. But so far there is silence.

Let me know it it doesn't open for you.
I have the second link, but not the first.

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3038 on: October 04, 2023, 11:48:15 AM »
Wesley, thank you for reminding about the link:
N. Graneau "THE ANOMALOUS STRENGTH OF COLD FOG EXPLOSIONS CAUSED BY HIGH CURRENT WATER ARCS"
This direction was previously interesting. But during the experiments there were no noticeable successes.

Okay, comments to this article:

Quote
Not until the mid-1980s was the scientific basis of the puzzling explosions more extensively researched.
At MIT [6,7]. It was shown that the discharge of 3.6 kJ of stored capacitor energy would create pressures in excess of 20,000 atm. in 7 ml of water. 3.6 gm of water was ejected from an accelerator barrel at a velocity of the order of 1000 m/s, sufficient to penetrate a 1/4" thick aluminium plate [8].

A lot of energy was used. The result is not impressive. A bullet from a Kalashnikov assault rifle with approximately the same shot energy pierces through a railway rail. But it's 1/2 inch steel, not 1/4" aluminum..

If an electric arc is formed in the discharge gap from a high current, the magnetic field will push this arc out of the discharge gap. Such an arc can extend to the side by several centimeters. The same principle as a railgun,

 but instead of rails and a projectile, an arc plasma conductor is used. If this plasma arc tongue touches any metal surface, the entire arc current will flow through that metal. Thus, this plasma tongue can lick the foil to holes if it reaches it.


Quote
Theoretical Understanding
The most likely explanation of the fog explosions is that they are caused by the liberation of intermolecular bonding energy when the bulk water is transformed into tiny fog droplets. This bonding is caused both by hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals forces, and the energy stored by the bonds is roughly equal to the latent heat of the water,
and is found to be 2.3 kJ/gm at room temperature. The creation of a large number of droplets is thought to be caused by the mechanical effects of the electrodynamic forces in the arc discharge. A certain amount of mechanical energy is thus used to create the droplets and is consequently stored as surface tension energy.

- So far this is just energy consumption.

Quote
However the molecules in the small droplets now have significantly fewer neighbours than in the bulk water and can thus reorientate themselves more easily into lower energy states. These lower energies imply that the bonds become stronger. This bond redistribution behaviour is normally observed in thin films of water called vicinal water. Recent results of inelastic incoherent neutron scattering (DNS) experiments in water and ice [10] have revealed the existence of two strengths of hydrogen bond. In water they are found to have bonding vibrational force constants of 24 and 32 meV, and are referred to as the weak and strong bonds respectively.

- It's better here. Graneau suggests that water in the form of very small drops becomes “more dense” and because of this energy is released. If you grind water, then in a microscopic drop the water will go into a more dense form and because of this energy will be released.
But.. :-\ There are such devices, ultrasonic humidifiers, or water atomizers. The piezoceramic plate oscillates with a frequency of 1 - 2 Megahertz. These high-frequency vibrations are transmitted to the water and because of this, very small droplets of water break off from the surface of the water in the form of mist. You are probably familiar with such devices. Cold “steam” and fog come out of them.
But for some reason, no additional energy is obtained from the “compacted water” in them, all parts are relatively cold, nothing unusual happens.

Quote
If in die newly formed droplet, some of the weak bonds drop to the strong bond energy in a quantum shift, there will be a consequent release of kinetic energy causing the vicinal droplets to repel each other, resulting in the observed explosion.

Somehow doubtful. Some kind of chain reaction. Drops in which the water has not passed into a more dense form must therefore pass into a more dense form of water and also release energy. "Quantum Shift". In lasers, when electrons move between energy levels, coherent energy is released in the form of photons. And here in the form of what? In the form of vibration of drops.? Sound laser powered by water drops...

Quote
After the explosion, in order to restore the droplets to their normal bulk state, some energy input must be required, and in our case this must come from atmospheric heat. This process can occur away from the explosion region and over a much longer time. Therefore the explosion is conjectured to be a sudden release of energy from the water that was initially stored by atmospheric heating, and is later restored into the water after the explosion also by atmospheric heat, while in the meantime the net gain in kinetic energy can be harnessed for useful means.

This means that the reacted water becomes unsuitable for reuse. Water needs some time to recover, to break the tight hydrogen bonds under the influence of the heat of solar radiation. But then why can't these tight bonds break during the discharge, which creates massive collisions of water, which is the same heat? There is an inconsistency in the author's reasoning. Illogical, makes me doubt it.

Regardless of the correctness of Graneau's theoretical justification, this is interesting. Wesley, do you remember I gave a link to the American inventors of the water motor? Where a thin stream of water from a nozzle under very high pressure of about 1000 atmospheres was broken against a specially shaped barrier? Because of this, the water became very hot and evaporated. They had a working prototype of the motor on video. I think this motor could use a similar process. Have you tried to contact them?

Let's return to Graneau's article. These are the articles he refers to that I have long wanted to read, but could not find anywhere on the Internet:

[2] Früngel F., "Zum mechanischen Wirkungsgrad von Flussigkeitsfimken", Optik, 3, p.125, (1948)

[4] Früngel F., High speed pulse technology, Vol.2, Academic Press, New York, 1965

The reference to [4] was mentioned somewhere in the context of Edwin Gray's devices.
About Früngel, Frank, Dr.-Ing., Hamburg:
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE2057736B2/en

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3039 on: October 04, 2023, 12:03:27 PM »
How did we get excited about Zografos, and where is it now? Or about Kapanadze’s green box, just recently.And so on everywhere, no result.
Yeah... You were shown some kind of sausage on video, and you need to restore the animal from which this sausage was made. (It's a joke.)

It’s hard, but we’re trying to move forward somehow.

By the way, the mouse promised me a translation of this picture, his version. But so far there is silence.
  Ask him again, maybe the message was not delivered for some reason.

The link from Wesley message:
N. Graneau "THE ANOMALOUS STRENGTH OF COLD FOG EXPLOSIONS CAUSED BY HIGH CURRENT WATER ARCS"

lancaIV

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3040 on: October 04, 2023, 12:32:58 PM »
Sergh,' Fluessigkeitsfunken' ,as part from cavitation science and applied ' optical maser = laser' technique ,:

Dr.Frank Fruengel giving use description :

https://patents.google.com/patent/DE1037830B/en

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3041 on: October 04, 2023, 12:35:29 PM »
DIY Project: Using a discharge in water to propel a rocket:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8SKce1OneE

Another videos the same autor:

https://www.youtube.com/@The141335/videos
The peculiarity is that the discharge gap in the water is initially short-circuited with a thin wire or foil. This is done because it is difficult to achieve breakdown in water at a relatively low voltage. Even at a voltage of 10 kilovolts, breakdown occurs at a distance of less than a millimeter. Dr Jaynes also talks about this problem in the video at Wesley's links. Kolbacict wrote here that he also encountered this problem. This is extremely inconvenient if you have relatively low-voltage capacitors at your disposal. Therefore, a jumper made of a thin conductor is used, which burns out and initiates an arc.
There was such a topic  “explosion of thin wires in water”, they also wrote that there was an anomalous release of energy.


Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3043 on: October 04, 2023, 12:51:44 PM »
Sergh,' Fluessigkeitsfunken' ,as part from cavitation science and applied ' optical maser = laser' technique ,:

Dr.Frank Fruengel giving use description :

https://patents.google.com/patent/DE1037830B/en
But I do not find in the patent from your link any connection with sources of coherent optical or radio radiation, which are called lasers or masers.
Only sound waves are mentioned there. Then it could be about a sound laser, SASER.
I did not find any real mention of the connection between the patent and the saser or somethis as sound gun etc..

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3044 on: October 04, 2023, 12:57:24 PM »
Lev Yutkin's electrohydraulic kick:
Try to do this, nothing will work. Stubborn distilled water does not want to break through from 10 kilovolts.
Yutkin carried several tons of high-voltage capacitors with his device.