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Author Topic: Simple questions  (Read 24219 times)

Overunutty

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Simple questions
« on: March 14, 2016, 05:40:17 PM »
If I can mechanically store 100,001 joules of stored energy in a set of flywheels and the input required is 100,000 joules to reach this goal. Is this overunity?
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Overunutty

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 12:23:34 AM »
Quote from: Overunutty on March 14, 2016, 05:40:17 PM
If I can mechanically store 100,001 joules of stored energy in a set of flywheels and the input required is 100,000 joules to reach this goal. Is this overunity?
I guess this is beyond the ability of this website?
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tinman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 12:35:35 AM »
Quote from: Overunutty on March 14, 2016, 05:40:17 PM
If I can mechanically store 100,001 joules of stored energy in a set of flywheels and the input required is 100,000 joules to reach this goal. Is this overunity?

The flywheels would not be what is OU,but the motor/engine/device that spun up the flywheels would be-->or you have not taken into account environmental input to the system.


Brad
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EMJunkie

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 04:46:49 AM »
Quote from: tinman on March 21, 2016, 12:35:35 AM
The flywheels would not be what is OU,but the motor/engine/device that spun up the flywheels would be-->or you have not taken into account environmental input to the system.


Brad



Nice answer Brad :)

A flywheel stores Energy in the form of Momentum, there is a transfer function.

If your Transfer Function were efficent enough then yes there could be an Energy Giain.

Brad is right though, the Flywheel itself is not Over Unity.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Not a bad screen name: "Overunutty" implies a little bit of crazy there :)

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Overunutty

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 06:12:31 PM »
Quote from: EMJunkie on March 21, 2016, 04:46:49 AM


Nice answer Brad :)

A flywheel stores Energy in the form of Momentum, there is a transfer function.

If your Transfer Function were efficent enough then yes there could be an Energy Giain.

Brad is right though, the Flywheel itself is not Over Unity.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Not a bad screen name: "Overunutty" implies a little bit of crazy there :)
I'm nutty over this subject!!  Lol. I understand that the flywheels are only capable of storing the energy created but if I were to increase this again mechanically to let's say 15000 joules and it took 10000 joules to get there, is the problem of retrieving the energy stored the concern? Or is it the fact that you think this is impossible?
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Overunutty

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 06:38:56 PM »
Basically what I'm asking is not where the overunity is but is it overunity?
Once the energy is stored mechanically what difference does it make if it's the flywheel or the procedure to get there that is considered overunity?
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memoryman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 02:21:07 AM »
Given the first law of thermodynamics, it is impossible.
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Pirate88179

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 02:30:09 AM »
Quote from: memoryman on March 22, 2016, 02:21:07 AM
Given the first law of thermodynamics, it is impossible.

Exactly correct.


Overunutty:

The overunity is in the question itself..."If I can store more energy in a flywheel than I put into a flywheel, would that be overunity?"
The answer is that your premise is not possible, therefore the answer is no.

Bill
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EMJunkie

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 03:49:27 AM »
Quote from: memoryman on March 22, 2016, 02:21:07 AM

Given the first law of thermodynamics, it is impossible.




This is classic caveman Science!!!

The Power that YOU put into a system vs the Power that YOU get out of a System has nothing to do with the "the first law of thermodynamics"!!!

Joules transformed can and does occur every day and has nothing to do with limiting YOU or any System to any open operational characteristic!!!

Hydroelectric Systems would not be practical if it were a Closed System!!! Wind Turbine, and so many more.

Do YOU put 1.20 watts into your local Hydroelectric Power Station, to get 1 watt out do YOU ???

Damned Caveman Science 101 - Or do you want to prove me wrong?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: I did see a forum somewhere debating: first law of thermodynamics vs the Big Bang!!! Now that's going to be a good debate!!!





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memoryman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 04:01:24 AM »
Power is not energy.
Joules are a measure of energy. The first law of thermodynamics is about Joules.
I never went to Caveman University, so didn't take Caveman Science 101. Did you?
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EMJunkie

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 04:06:04 AM »
Quote from: memoryman on March 22, 2016, 04:01:24 AM
Power is not energy.
Joules are a measure of energy. The first law of thermodynamics is about Joules.
I never went to Caveman University, so didn't take Caveman Science 101. Did you?


Malarkey!!!

Power (Watts) is Joules per second. Energy over time. It is a Measure of Energy through the course of Time.

So this is rubbish argument as well!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

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memoryman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 04:12:26 AM »
It is not an argument; simply the definition.
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EMJunkie

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 04:24:23 AM »
Quote from: memoryman on March 22, 2016, 04:12:26 AM
It is not an argument; simply the definition.


Which I already gave you in my post.

Or did you not read that far down?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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EMJunkie

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 04:43:54 AM »
Sorry Memoryman, but this way of thinking, simply is wrong!


Like I said, "The First Law of Thermodynamics" has nothing to do, at all, with the subject matter!!!


Through lack of definite definitions and loosely termed acronym's, Science and the English language, no doubt other languages, have crossed into completely different territory's.

 
You are talking about Creating Energy from Nothing, a bit like the Big Bang and how The First Law of Thermodynamics does not support it. Yet Science supports both concepts!

We are talking about if We put in 100,000 joules but have 100,001 joules stored in a Flywheel. There is nothing to limit us in an OPEN SYSTEM from doing exactly this. Like a Hydroelectric Station, the Output we get out, is not limited to what WE put in!!! We put in a few hours of Labour in Maintenance, when Mega-Watts could be the output.

So you see, Talking Apples, when Oranges is the subject matter, is just non-sense!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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memoryman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 02:58:01 PM »
The First Law of Thermodynamics is fundamental to talking about energy. It is important to consider the system (to energy flow) as open or closed.
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