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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3551527 times)

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5475 on: October 05, 2015, 12:10:18 PM »
Quote from: TinselKoala on October 05, 2015, 08:10:37 AM
What are the units of the E field?
What kind of field surrounds the top terminal of a Van De Graaff machine?


And the tool of OU.com pipes in...

What practical use is this post TK, are you just trying to upset Tinman?

Really, you should be ashamed of your Arrogance, its ridiculous!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Here is a thought, how about trying to be Productive, Constructive and less Destructive!!!
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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5476 on: October 05, 2015, 12:55:43 PM »
...

@MagnaProp - I have been reading, just waiting to see what the results are with the current topic...

If I can say, a Coil, Inductor or Solenoid will have a charge constant, meaning time is taken for the Magnetic Field to build to its maximum value for a given Input Voltage. This can be Calculated and also seen on the scope through a Current Sensing Resistor (CSR) or other Current Probe...

This I am guessing you already know.

A Diode on the Secondary Coil will allow Current to Flow in one direction only. Again I am guessing you know.

If the DC Input is switched on... the Field Builds... then Lenz's Law will apply one direction but not the other as to how the direction the Diode is connected on the Secondary...

So, lets suppose we have no Lenz's Effects on the Input, the Diode is connected the correct way, then the Field can build to its maximum Value. Now the Input is switched off.

What will the Field do?

Collapse...

So now our Primary is no longer connected to a Current Source, effectively its open Circuit...

The Diode will now conduct and Current can flow in the Secondary as soon as the Field is collapsing because the polarity has changed.

No Lenz's Law effects reflected back on the Primary!

Interestingly, the Magnetic Field changes its Location in Space, Current is flowing in the Secondary Coil and this constitutes its own Magnetic Field.

Importantly, the Magnetic Field in the Secondary is now in the Same Direction as the Primary Magnetic Field was... Why you might ask? Well apply the Right Hand Rule, Current flow will follow the Right Hand Rule. Remembering that the Polarity of the Coil has Flipped!

So, Tinman was right.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 10:13:53 PM by EMJunkie »
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tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5477 on: October 05, 2015, 01:33:34 PM »
Ok,i have cleaned up the sine wave as much as i can with this small transformer that is feeding the test unit.

Below are some scope shot's with descriptions.
from these we can see that-
1-the secondaries voltage and current are in phase with each other,and in phase with the voltage across the primary coil.
2-The current on the primary coil lags that of the current on the secondary,and also the voltage on the primary and secondary.

So it seems that a voltage potential across the primary alone(before current starts to flow in the primary)can create both voltage and current at the secondary.
If current flow through the primary is what gives rise to the E field,and the E field is what is producing the EMF at the secondary,then what is producing the EMF at the secondary before the current starts to flow through the primary ???.-->anyone?

So now a question for you all.
Is it possible to create just an AC voltage across that(or any other)primary coil without current flow?-->as far as i know,it is not possible.
The other thing i noticed was-when i place the load(switch on the globe) on the secondary,i cannot detect an increase of power input to the primary-in fact,a slight decrease is seen in P/in.
Note:The globe consumes 1.22 watts on the secondary.

So now i will carry out some lower power test,using my SG as the AC power source-so as i can raise the frequency to see if i can get a larger phase shift between voltage and current throughout the DUT.
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poynt99

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5478 on: October 05, 2015, 02:17:47 PM »
Are you using a one to one transformer ratio?

If not, would you expect the phase differences between voltage and current to be the same in both the primary and the secondary?

Have you tried the same test on a commercial transformer? What were the results?
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TinselKoala

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5479 on: October 05, 2015, 03:18:29 PM »
Quote from: tinman on October 05, 2015, 11:42:50 AM
Charge

As the field is stationary,it would be an electric field. If the electric field is moving,then it is an electromagnetic field.

Current is still required to produce that electric field at the top terminal of the Van De Graaff machine.

Wrong, twice.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elefie.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/estatics/Lesson-4/Electric-Field-Intensity

The units of the E-field are _volts per meter_, or to put it another way, _newtons per coulomb_. Current describes the movement of charge, but the E field does not depend on movement of charge. Stationary charges produce an electric field. You can argue that charge has to move for it to be concentrated onto, say, the top of the VDG machine, but it is not the _movement_ of charge that produces the field, as I believe you have stated.
In fact if you look at the Hyperphysics link you will see this: "The electric field can be defined as the electromagnetic force per unit charge _in the rest frame of the charge_." (emphasis mine).

Also, you are using _wirewound_ resistors that have considerable inductance in your measurements, according to that photo from a while back. Plus you have the length of the probe ground clipleads as well. How much of the current _phase shift_ in your scopeshots is due to the inductance of your measurement system, rather than your actual device under test? You don't know, do you?
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TinselKoala

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5480 on: October 05, 2015, 03:23:02 PM »
Quote from: EMJunkie on October 05, 2015, 12:10:18 PM

And the tool of OU.com pipes in...

What practical use is this post TK, are you just trying to upset Tinman?

Really, you should be ashamed of your Arrogance, its ridiculous!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Here is a thought, how about trying to be Productive, Constructive and less Destructive!!!

How about getting FACTS correct? You are the one being arrogant and destructive, as well as being WRONG, Chris Sykes. Over and over again.
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tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5481 on: October 05, 2015, 03:37:18 PM »
Quote from: poynt99 on October 05, 2015, 02:17:47 PM



Quote
Are you using a one to one transformer ratio?

Yes-all 3 windings are 1-1,the primary,secondary,and the third coil that is wound around the core with the primary all are 50 turns.

Quote
If not, would you expect the phase differences between voltage and current to be the same in both the primary and the secondary?

In some transformers yes,and some no-->depends on configuration of the transformer.

Quote
Have you tried the same test on a commercial transformer? What were the results?

Yes,and once again,it depends on what type of transformer you use as to whether the current phases are in phase or out of phase.
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forest

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5482 on: October 05, 2015, 06:33:56 PM »
Some time ago I asked if anybody is able to measure when the output voltage on secondary is formed.I think it is formed right before current flows in primary immediately after the EMF applied to primary. Sure, nobody has access to such fast tools to test it...
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gotoluc

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5483 on: October 05, 2015, 10:05:16 PM »
Rotary version ready for testing

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seVtuwtvciA

Stay tuned for tests

Luc
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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5484 on: October 05, 2015, 10:22:04 PM »
Quote from: TinselKoala on October 05, 2015, 08:10:37 AM
What are the units of the E field?
What kind of field surrounds the top terminal of a Van De Graaff machine?

Quote from: EMJunkie on October 05, 2015, 12:10:18 PM

And the tool of OU.com pipes in...

What practical use is this post TK, are you just trying to upset Tinman?

Really, you should be ashamed of your Arrogance, its ridiculous!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Here is a thought, how about trying to be Productive, Constructive and less Destructive!!!

Quote from: TinselKoala on October 05, 2015, 03:23:02 PM
How about getting FACTS correct? You are the one being arrogant and destructive, as well as being WRONG, Chris Sykes. Over and over again.

Here is my point:

Quote from: TinselKoala on October 05, 2015, 03:18:29 PM
Wrong, twice.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elefie.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/estatics/Lesson-4/Electric-Field-Intensity

The units of the E-field are _volts per meter_, or to put it another way, _newtons per coulomb_. Current describes the movement of charge, but the E field does not depend on movement of charge. Stationary charges produce an electric field. You can argue that charge has to move for it to be concentrated onto, say, the top of the VDG machine, but it is not the _movement_ of charge that produces the field, as I believe you have stated.
In fact if you look at the Hyperphysics link you will see this: "The electric field can be defined as the electromagnetic force per unit charge _in the rest frame of the charge_." (emphasis mine).

Also, you are using _wirewound_ resistors that have considerable inductance in your measurements, according to that photo from a while back. Plus you have the length of the probe ground clipleads as well. How much of the current _phase shift_ in your scopeshots is due to the inductance of your measurement system, rather than your actual device under test? You don't know, do you?

You're unbelievable TK, unbelievable!!!

What is wrong with you? Do you have to prove your Arrogance to everyone here all the time, we already know how you operate!

Go back to your hole and don't come back! Tell Homeland Security you failed because you're so see through! Everyone knows how you guys operate, sticking out like a sore thumb!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5485 on: October 05, 2015, 10:36:24 PM »
Quote from: forest on October 05, 2015, 06:33:56 PM
Some time ago I asked if anybody is able to measure when the output voltage on secondary is formed.I think it is formed right before current flows in primary immediately after the EMF applied to primary. Sure, nobody has access to such fast tools to test it...

Forest - I agree this is a very interesting point!

I believe that as you say, Voltage is already available on the Terminals of a Generator before Current is drawn...

Lets think about it, if Voltage was not already present, then no Current can flow. Why? Because a difference of potential must be applied to any load before Current can flow.

I like your post, its sensible!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5486 on: October 05, 2015, 10:40:38 PM »
Quote from: EMJunkie on October 05, 2015, 12:55:43 PM
...

@MagnaProp - I have been reading, just waiting to see what the results are with the current topic...

If I can say, a Coil, Inductor or Solenoid will have a charge constant, meaning time is taken for the Magnetic Field to build to its maximum value for a given Input Voltage. This can be Calculated and also seen on the scope through a Current Sensing Resistor (CSR) or other Current Probe...

This I am guessing you already know.

A Diode on the Secondary Coil will allow Current to Flow in one direction only. Again I am guessing you know.

If the DC Input is switched on... the Field Builds... then Lenz's Law will apply one direction but not the other as to how the direction the Diode is connected on the Secondary...

So, lets suppose we have no Lenz's Effects on the Input, the Diode is connected the correct way, then the Field can build to its maximum Value. Now the Input is switched off.

What will the Field do?

Collapse...

So now our Primary is no longer connected to a Current Source, effectively its open Circuit...

The Diode will now conduct and Current can flow in the Secondary as soon as the Field is collapsing because the polarity has changed.

No Lenz's Law effects reflected back on the Primary!

Interestingly, the Magnetic Field changes its Location in Space, Current is flowing in the Secondary Coil and this constitutes its own Magnetic Field.

Importantly, the Magnetic Field in the Secondary is now in the Same Direction as the Primary Magnetic Field was... Why you might ask? Well apply the Right Hand Rule, Current flow will follow the Right Hand Rule. Remembering that the Polarity of the Coil has Flipped!

So, Tinman was right.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

...

I would like to point out, there is a third Coil in most all of these devices...

Why?

It seems, and I do not know exactly why, but that one Coil has to hold the Magnetic Field High for as long as possible.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5487 on: October 05, 2015, 10:51:59 PM »
...

From history, if we pull some data, looking at the whys...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5488 on: October 05, 2015, 10:52:47 PM »
Quote from: EMJunkie on October 05, 2015, 12:55:43 PM
...

@MagnaProp - I have been reading, just waiting to see what the results are with the current topic...

If I can say, a Coil, Inductor or Solenoid will have a charge constant, meaning time is taken for the Magnetic Field to build to its maximum value for a given Input Voltage. This can be Calculated and also seen on the scope through a Current Sensing Resistor (CSR) or other Current Probe...

This I am guessing you already know.

A Diode on the Secondary Coil will allow Current to Flow in one direction only. Again I am guessing you know.

If the DC Input is switched on... the Field Builds... then Lenz's Law will apply one direction but not the other as to how the direction the Diode is connected on the Secondary...

So, lets suppose we have no Lenz's Effects on the Input, the Diode is connected the correct way, then the Field can build to its maximum Value. Now the Input is switched off.

What will the Field do?

Collapse...

So now our Primary is no longer connected to a Current Source, effectively its open Circuit...

The Diode will now conduct and Current can flow in the Secondary as soon as the Field is collapsing because the polarity has changed.

No Lenz's Law effects reflected back on the Primary!

Interestingly, the Magnetic Field changes its Location in Space, Current is flowing in the Secondary Coil and this constitutes its own Magnetic Field.

Importantly, the Magnetic Field in the Secondary is now in the Same Direction as the Primary Magnetic Field was... Why you might ask? Well apply the Right Hand Rule, Current flow will follow the Right Hand Rule. Remembering that the Polarity of the Coil has Flipped!

So, Tinman was right.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

...

and surely this picture is familiar:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5489 on: October 05, 2015, 10:56:42 PM »
Maybe Tinman can comment on this?

Maybe, Tinman, you can share your ideas and timing of the Coil Timings?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
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