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Author Topic: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force  (Read 29893 times)

Offline Overunityguide

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T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« on: December 24, 2014, 11:49:39 AM »
Hi All,
 
Most recently I went to Switzerland on vacation and visited the Large Hydro-Power Dam Structure, called the 'Grande Dixence'.
 
Since then I read a couple of articles on how Hydro-Power can be produced/extracted, what kind of turbine types exist and what parameters and formula's for calculating Net Power are involved.
 
I also did some reading on Viktor Schauberger his inventions, and fiddled with the idea of combining a bit of his work on 'Centrifugal Force' with common Hydro-Power Turbine concepts.
 
This is what a came up with... The basic idea is fairly simple. (although it might be challenging to build..) The idea is to rotate two Francis/Pelton turbines (mounted on a T Like Structure) right above a water basin and feet both rotating turbines with water/hydro power generated by centrifugal force. (Instead of Gravity, which is normally used in Hydro-Power Stations)
 
So I thought I would share it with you guys. (Like some sort of a Christmas Present)
 
Please see both my T-(Shaped) Turbine Images and decide for yourself what such a structure might be capable of.
 
The formula's for calculating power output are in the drawings as well.
 
A Merry Christmas to You All!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline quartz

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Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
Hi Quartz,

Thanks for the link. It looks like Cherryman was on the same track a while ago. :)

His first design with multiple rotating water wheels looks nice, but in my opinion lags the ability for pressure build-up next to a turbine inlet. When water reaches the first vane on one of the rotating water wheels, the water could go virtually anywhere... (especially when the rotating feed pipes/penstocks are not exactly horizontal, as in his design)

Furthermore his second design comes more in the direction to what I came up with, but the rotating horizontal pipes/penstocks are way too short in my opinion.

Please look at the power figures (as presented in my calculations) where we can use a rotating feed pipe/penstock of 5 meter and rotate it with 3 rps (rounds per second), which gives us a Centrifugal Force in the Horizontal Direction of 90,5 x Normal Gravity! With those parameters a Turbine could eventually produce a mechanical output of 30MW...

Anyways good to see that more people have given the same idea some thoughts in the past.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
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Offline quartz

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2014, 12:19:51 PM »
This is a good indicator when several people have similar ideas

Offline telecom

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2014, 06:19:51 PM »
Hi All,
 
Most recently I went to Switzerland on vacation and visited the Large Hydro-Power Dam Structure, called the 'Grande Dixence'.
 
Since then I read a couple of articles on how Hydro-Power can be produced/extracted, what kind of turbine types exist and what parameters and formula's for calculating Net Power are involved.
 
I also did some reading on Viktor Schauberger his inventions, and fiddled with the idea of combining a bit of his work on 'Centrifugal Force' with common Hydro-Power Turbine concepts.
 
This is what a came up with... The basic idea is fairly simple. (although it might be challenging to build..) The idea is to rotate two Francis/Pelton turbines (mounted on a T Like Structure) right above a water basin and feet both rotating turbines with water/hydro power generated by centrifugal force. (Instead of Gravity, which is normally used in Hydro-Power Stations)
 
So I thought I would share it with you guys. (Like some sort of a Christmas Present)
 
Please see both my T-(Shaped) Turbine Images and decide for yourself what such a structure might be capable of.
 
The formula's for calculating power output are in the drawings as well.
 
A Merry Christmas to You All!

Hi, but rotating the whole assembly will also take lots of power.
How do you know that the generator part will produce more power than the one consumed by the motor ?
Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2014, 06:19:51 PM »
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Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 10:10:15 AM »
Hi Telecom,
 
Rotating the whole assembly will take some input power indeed. (especially when started) Although I don't think it takes 'lots of power' to keep it rotating. This because once the system is started-up, it acts more like a Giant Flywheel structure which needs to be kept moving. The only direct contact with the  water is at the center of the water basin and rotates 'relatively' slow in de example I provided. (only 3 rps) The main power which the turbines are running on is mostly Centrifugal Force. My estimate would be that such a system, (2 x 30MW at the Turbines) will only consume around 30-300 kW at the Motor/Input side to sustain rotation once started (But that is only an estimate...)
 
The plans as provided are purely conceptual and a lot of testing needs to be done. But the Mechanical Turbine Power Figures are based on actual Hydro-Power calculation methods.

Offline telecom

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 03:30:36 PM »
Hi,
in this case can you provide some calculations for the tabletop model of your design.
For example, for it to generate up to 2 kwts by consuming only, say, up to 400 Watts.
What would be the dimensions of such a machine?
Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 03:30:36 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2014, 04:27:04 PM »
@ Overunityguide

As you spin the system. The water itself will vortex and fight against you. Also with the break walls will cause a negative turbulence in the way you have them placed.

So! My advice you need to ramp Spiro your breaks to guide the water back to the center in a smooth flow. This will narrow the vortex and you need to add a guide cone down into the water in the middle with an Archimedes screw effect. This will help you but it still may not be enough. You are asking a lot out of CF help to overdrive a system. Here is a system I designed that used fluid in hopes to self run but could not get enough out of the test to go further. But this may help with some more ideas.

Alan

PS wide to narrow you water flow in the arms to become jets for maximum pressure.

Dave45

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 11:55:53 PM »
You could vent the turbines in such a way as to help in the acceleration.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 11:55:53 PM »
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Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2014, 10:19:13 AM »
Hi AB Hammer,
 
The Stationary Break Vanes are meant to be there to prevent a rotating movement inside the water basin. This because when the water is moved/turned around inside the basin, it will create a vortex. This vortex in the water basin will keep the water away from the T-(Shaped) Water inlet. If the water keeps away from this inlet, the water will run out of the system and the turbines come to a complete stop. This is what we don't want. Of course with the Stationary Break Vanes in place the water needs to go from no movement to a turning movement inside the rotating feed pipes/penstocks at the center of the water basin. This will create a small vortex which I think will counter force the input rotation a little, which needs to be overcome by the input motor/drive unit mechanism. But I think that this counter force will not be that big at only 3 rps at the center of the water basin.
 
The second thing I want to tell is that I don't think that such a system can be made to run itself purely based on water flow that easy. This is the reason why I have chosen the input motor/turbine output route.
 
And Yes I am asking a lot of the Centrifugal Force, But it can Give us a Lot also... (if you build it the right way)
 
The last thing I want to comment on, is that I think it is not a good idea to go from wide to narrow at the turbine outlets and create jets for propulsion. This because it will obstruct the water flow going to the turbines in such a way that it will prevent serious power from being produced at the turbine place. But on the other hand, if you vent them in the proper direction it can help.
 
I am not hoping to be a Negative Nancy on this, but I do think we need to look a bit different at things compared to what already is being tried in the past (and possible didn't work)
 

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2014, 04:15:59 PM »
Overunityguide

 You need to study about river flow with dikes and you will see a bit more my suggestion. I was in the US Coast Guard and spent 3 years on the Mississippi river. Our job was river navigation. The better you make the water flow. The better the water will work for you and not against you.


Alan

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2014, 04:15:59 PM »
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Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2014, 10:09:23 AM »
Hi AB Hammer,
 
That is true for sure… Looking at nature is always a good thing to do. Viktor Schauberger has also spend thousands of hours looking on how salmon where able to swim up river…
 
But I think that you are probably right about the design of the Stationary Water Break Vanes, they might be a bit more curved to direct the water to the center of the water basin more easily. But I guess for now the only thing I did so far, was to share the conceptual idea…

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 10:41:32 AM »
A lot of people are asking me how I came up with the Centrifugal Force Figures as being presented in both T-(Shaped) Turbine Images. I am sorry to hear if it wasn’t clear in the first place. Please see my ‘Centrifugal Force Calculation.png’ Attachment, which will have the exact calculation method in it.

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2014, 09:18:12 AM »
I also found a useful tool for calculating Centrifugal Force online.
it can be found at: http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal
The tool can give you direct results in g or m/s^2
 
See the Images for the parameters related to the T-(Shaped) Turbine.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:42:30 PM by Overunityguide »

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2014, 09:57:29 AM »
Hi,
in this case can you provide some calculations for the tabletop model of your design.
For example, for it to generate up to 2 kwts by consuming only, say, up to 400 Watts.
What would be the dimensions of such a machine?
Regards
Hi Telecom,
 
Sorry for the Delay in my Reaction. But to Create a Table Top - Model (depending on the size of your table :) ) I would suggest the following parameters:
 
(I shouldn't go lower than a 0.5 m Radius and 10 Litre/Second Flow Rate, because then the output power becomes below usable figures)
 
Parameters:
Rotation Radius 0.5 meter (Feed Pipe/Penstock radius)
Rotation speed 6 rps (Rounds per Second)
Turbine Flow Rate 10 Litre/Second (0.01 m^3/s)
 
Centrifugal Acceleration: (@ 6 rps and @ 5m)
710.612 (m/s^2) / 2 = 355.306 (m/s^2)
 
Hydro-Power Calculation for Each Turbine:
1510.05 Watts =  0.85 x 1000 x 0.01 x 355.306 x 0.5
 
Total Power:
1510.05 x 2 = 3020.10 Watts

 

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