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Author Topic: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.  (Read 367236 times)

mondrasek

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #585 on: May 23, 2014, 03:25:00 PM »

can you send the file. The sim was not drawn to scale it was to show how it will work. I have posted some other videos showing falling levers and weights which indeed gained energy during the fall.


regards

Sure.  I did not label the GPE measurements clearly.  They are placed close to the elements they represent.  They are also not "zeroed" beyond ~.005J.

gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #586 on: May 23, 2014, 03:28:59 PM »
Sure.  I did not label the GPE measurements clearly.  They are placed close to the elements they represent.  They are also not "zeroed" beyond ~.005J.


That was just to show how well the principle is. try changing the crossbar mass to 2kg.


regards


p.s. you might need to add aditional crossbar extension so the lever doesn't move out of place

zoelra

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #587 on: May 23, 2014, 04:42:09 PM »
 Bessler said:
“He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds, four quarters high.”


Depending upon the interpretation, "if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots" either "four pounds four quarters high" or "each pound one quarter high".


I'm not discrediting your findings but your principle does not match Bessler's own description of the principle.  Your fall distance appears to be over 7 times the raised height.  You may have found "a" solution but it does not sound like you found Bessler's solution.


p.s. You were correct, our solutions are not the same.  Luckily my discovery is safe for the moment.


gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #588 on: May 23, 2014, 04:53:20 PM »
Bessler said:
“He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds, four quarters high.”


Depending upon the interpretation, "if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots" either "four pounds four quarters high" or "each pound one quarter high".


I'm not discrediting your findings but your principle does not match Bessler's own description of the principle.  You may have found "a" solution but it does not sound like you found Bessler's solution.


well I did read about this and I find it to be strange phenomenon if it were true. It clearly violates conservation of energy. I think the translation must be investigated again. I have no problem linking Bessler to the mechanism I found because everything fits eye witness accounts or Bessler's words. It could be that he found other mechanism as well which were able to do what he was saying. If this was the case then it must be a truely powerful wheel.


regards

Marsing

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #589 on: May 23, 2014, 05:28:39 PM »

Bessler said:
“He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds, four quarters high.”


zoelra,

is your finding fit with those  words?

gurangax,

can you reduce the resolution of all your vid  less than 1024*xxxx pixels and re post here ? i see black screen.

gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #590 on: May 23, 2014, 05:33:45 PM »
zoelra,

is your finding fit with those  words?

gurangax,

can you reduce the resolution of all your vid  less than 1024*xxxx pixels and re post here ? i see black screen.



I think you are missing some video codecs. try installing video codecs first maybe here http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm


regards

Marsing

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #591 on: May 23, 2014, 05:47:21 PM »

Yes, i use K-Lite Codec Pack to open your file, there is no problem when opening other vid, so i guess the problem is resolution.

broli

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #592 on: May 23, 2014, 05:48:49 PM »
No working prototype to show? As stated earlier I and perhaps many others see no magic in this idea.

gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #593 on: May 23, 2014, 05:49:29 PM »
Yes, i use K-Lite Codec Pack to open your file, there is no problem when opening other vid, so i guess the problem is resolution.


Ok I'll try youtube instead.


regards


Marsing

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #595 on: May 23, 2014, 05:57:02 PM »

edit-     Youtube is Ok,   thanks

gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #596 on: May 23, 2014, 06:02:20 PM »
hi..     i think there is option in your program to save in different resolution, and it will be easier.

thank.


Im sorry I dont think there is, but I already uploaded it to youtube.


regards

gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #597 on: May 23, 2014, 06:28:07 PM »
Bessler said:
“He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds, four quarters high.”


Depending upon the interpretation, "if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots" either "four pounds four quarters high" or "each pound one quarter high".


I'm not discrediting your findings but your principle does not match Bessler's own description of the principle.  Your fall distance appears to be over 7 times the raised height.  You may have found "a" solution but it does not sound like you found Bessler's solution.


p.s. You were correct, our solutions are not the same.  Luckily my discovery is safe for the moment.


I think I found the meaning of this. It is possible what he meant was, let say 1 pound weight falls down the lever with distance a quarter, this causes imbalance to the wheel so the weight now rotates with the wheel a distance of 4 quarters from bottom to top of wheel. this is logical and doesnt go against the laws.


regards

zoelra

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #598 on: May 23, 2014, 06:33:30 PM »
Marsing said:
"zoelra, is your finding fit with those words?"


Yes I can make that happen and it does not violate the conservation of energy law.  It is made up of simple movements and leverage.

There is no way to know if the amount of weight and fall/lift distances Bessler mentions is what he actually used in his wheels, but a mechanism that is capable of producing that type of effect with the values he specified would have significance.  To be clear, I'm not saying the mechanism I'm presenting is Bessler's solution, but it is a possible solution because it does match his comments.


I'm basing the information below on the ratio interpretation "if one pound falls one quarter, it shoots four pounds, four quarters high (each pound shooting one quarter high)".  The other interpretation would just require a modification of the mechanism parameters.

Start with a lever (like the one shown in the picture below) with a one pound weight on the right side and a four pound weight on the left side.  Both weights are equidistant from the pivot point.  If you know how to make the one pound weight on the right side feel like 4 pounds, then due to the symmetry, any drop in that weight will result in an equal rise of the weight on the opposite side of the lever.  So there you have it, "when one pound falls one X, it shoots four pounds, four X high" (each pound shooting one X high).  X being the distance dropped which could be a quarter of an inch, a quarter of a foot, a quarter of the wheel height, a quarter of a turn, or any displacement as long as the design allows.  Now all you have to do is figure out how to make that one pound weight feel like four pounds.  That's where lateral thinking and ingenuity comes in.


[EDIT]  Also note that the drawing I have included is a simple illustration to make the point and NOT the actual mechanism.  I should also add that in this example, just over one pound on the left is required to reset the one pound weight on the right, the remaining weight would be the "applied load" on the mechanism.  I see this mechanism as a prime mover, one of many, shifting weights to the overbalanced position, with those shifting weights being the "applied load".  Each mechanism would be oriented in the z-axis.  Remember in MT13, Bessler said the wheel would be good for running if someone was at the top of the wheel to lift the weights with lightning speed.

 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 12:43:47 AM by zoelra »

MT

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #599 on: May 23, 2014, 11:05:03 PM »

Regarding your video. It shows a small weight dropping a large distance and a big weight rising a small distance. I can't seem to find the magic.


Hi gurangax,
Thanks for posting the idea. It really seemed you have it with all the theater around but as others also pointed I would also not be so sure. The idea may produce sounds similar what witnesses heard but I think the wheel will not pass 9o'clock in production phase.
In your first video for example your crossbar is 6kg which is lifted say 1m , this makes 60J GPE.
Your weight on lever is 1.3kg not considering weight of lever itself. If we assume crossbar is being lifted 1m then longer lever arm is looking at picture about 3m. Then weight start at 12o'clock have 39J GPE.
You let it fall 3 m to the 3o'clock then during lifting the crossbar another 3m below the rotation point. This movement only costed 78J.
No I assume you want to use the crossbar builded leverage to get also the lever with weight back to 12o'clock.
No way... Sorry.


Marcel