Author Topic: Magnet motor idea - again. (Read 30654 times)

Low-Q · « **on:** September 20, 2012, 03:43:56 PM »

Hi,

Came up with this iea as a follow up for the "Notch-motor" I have posted earlier.

I have no time to explain things in detail, but for you skilled persons might have a though about how this "work".

The image is suppose to be animated... Doesn't seem to work from my computer...

Here is a link: http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Notch-motor-type-2.gif

Low-Q · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2012, 05:22:23 PM »

The idea is this:

Cancelling the sticky spot by balance the rotor and stator between attractive and repelling force by use of the notch. Please see this video I made on youtube for how two opposing magnets can actually be neutrilized inside the notch. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obV4bUd4JmI&feature=g-upl[/size]

The same, but opposite will happen between two attractive magnets. However, the notch will then repel with the same force when the two magnets are meshed together.

Vidar

Low-Q · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2012, 02:04:45 PM »

In the video I tested only two magnet assamblies. Now I made three, just to check how the "rotor" magnet behaves between the two stator assamblies side by side with opposite polarity. I approached the "rotor magnet" towards the attracting stator assambly. By my surprise, the "sticky spot" between the two stator assamblies, the "rotor magnet" was forced towards the repelling assambly. That means that the rotor will be supplied with extra force in the direction I want, instead of being stopped and locked at a sticky spot.

I will build a circular prototype with speaker magnets. Cut them in half so one side has opposite polarity.

Vidar

Low-Q · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2012, 05:07:07 PM »

The animation below is suppose to explain in more detail what I observe with the current magnet alignment.
http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Notch-motor-type_2-explained.gif

Low-Q · « **Reply #4 on:** September 25, 2012, 02:38:17 PM »

Does anyone have any idea if it is possible to simulate the above experiment in FEMM?

I hope it is possible to simulate with an eqivalent setup because FEMM works only in 2 dimensions...I just can't "see" how that should be done.

Maybe someone have Maxwell-software?

Vidar

gyulasun · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2012, 02:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Low-Q on September 21, 2012, 02:04:45 PM

...

I will build a circular prototype with speaker magnets. Cut them in half so one side has opposite polarity.

Vidar

Hi Vidar,

I wonder what tools you can use for cutting the magnets. I assume you use diamond cutter disk run at low rpm?

I think there are some members here using Maxwell 3D, unfortunately it takes time to create the model and then more time to run the simulations.

rgds, Gyula

Low-Q · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:26:11 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on September 25, 2012, 02:44:15 PM

Hi Vidar,

I wonder what tools you can use for cutting the magnets. I assume you use diamond cutter disk run at low rpm?

I think there are some members here using Maxwell 3D, unfortunately it takes time to create the model and then more time to run the simulations.

rgds, Gyula

These magnets are hard to cut, anf dust from the magnets will be hard to remove. Actually, I want to stack 3 magnets upon eachother, and align them to make that shape (Except the shape at the back side will not be flat).

The upper and lower layer of the stationary magnet will at first repel the tip of the moving magnet when the assamblies mesh together - at the same time as the upper and lower layer of the moving magnet is attracting the stationary assambly.

Sliding the moving magnet along the notch/pit is (should be) easy, and the tip of the moving magnet will in the center start to attract the other halfs upper and lower layers for a short while (I know this by my first experiment - i don't know why that happend exactly, but I have a theory)

And then after sliding a bit more the tip will attract to these layers at the same time as the upper and lower layers of the moving magnet repel just as much.

Therfor it is easy to separate them where repelling forces will suddenly become greater than the attraction of the moving magnets tip (As shown on youtube).

I must use some tape between the layers of the stationary magnet so there is space enough for the tip of the moving magnet assambly to enter the notch/pit.

This far it seems there is three places where positive gain is present. I can't find out where there is opposite forces which accounts for the gain.

I just want to confirm where the sticky spot is (if it is present), as I am in general pretty sceptic to overunity... I am a little exited though :-)

Vidar

Low-Q · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:46:18 PM »

Maybe the way these magnets are aligned is a way to avoid the sticky spot? If it is, I will be a dead man tomorrow :-(

Vidar

gyulasun · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2012, 06:18:20 PM »

Hi Vidar,

Just try to build it, that is the best answer. No amount of talking / rambling can give real answers.

If you still happen to find one or two sticky spots, then it is still a good step to use small electromagnets at those spots IF the permanent magnets would give the rotational torque during most parts of one full rotation.

rgds, Gyula

Low-Q · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2012, 06:38:44 PM »

Quote from: gyulasun on September 25, 2012, 06:18:20 PM

Hi Vidar,

Just try to build it, that is the best answer. No amount of talking / rambling can give real answers.

If you still happen to find one or two sticky spots, then it is still a good step to use small electromagnets at those spots IF the permanent magnets would give the rotational torque during most parts of one full rotation.

rgds, Gyula

I am on my way gluing magnets together. They are so cheap so it would not be much economic loss anyways....normal ferrite magnets, as they are easier and safer to handle ;-)

ionizer · « **Reply #10 on:** September 26, 2012, 06:55:16 AM »

What makes you think having no sticky spot means overunity?
I have seen several motors without sticky spots but they only run smoother they still consume more then they can generate.

Low-Q · « **Reply #11 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:53:12 AM »

Quote from: ionizer on September 26, 2012, 06:55:16 AM

What makes you think having no sticky spot means overunity?
I have seen several motors without sticky spots but they only run smoother they still consume more then they can generate.

I see the confusion.
Generally, a magnet motor will have as much energy to run as the counter energy which balance the output to zero. A sticky spot isn't neccessarily the cause why the motor doesn't run, but in my preliminary experiments I have observed only "driving forces", and no counter force, or "sticky spots" which should stop the experiment from running. There hasn't been any obstacles in the cycle, so to speak.

But again, this is preliminary experiments, and done by hand - and as you all know, experiments by hand will very often confuse the conclusion.

I am in progress with a simple prototype. That experiment will tell everything wether this works or not.

Vidar

powercat · « **Reply #12 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:10:47 PM »

I remember somebody on this forum I think it was bill, saying that if you clamp 2 magnates together
the opposing fields after an amount of time change back to a normal configuration.

I could be wrong on this so I will send bill a linked to this

Low-Q · « **Reply #13 on:** September 26, 2012, 04:11:14 PM »

Quote from: powercat on September 26, 2012, 12:10:47 PM

I remember somebody on this forum I think it was bill, saying that if you clamp 2 magnates together
the opposing fields after an amount of time change back to a normal configuration.

I could be wrong on this so I will send bill a linked to this

OK. I'm not sure how you picture the "clamp together". Do you mean clamped together as the bar I have drawn in reply #3?

The fields between the moving and the stationary magnets are vertically aligned (South and north up or down), so it should not weaken the magnets the same way as when the field is opposing eachother directly south towards south for example....

I'll wait to see what Bill meant about this. Thanks for the input.

Vidar

powercat · « **Reply #14 on:** September 26, 2012, 05:07:42 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obV4bUd4JmI&feature=g-upl

I was looking at the video you linked in Reply 1 , the meshing together of the magnates
which made me recall reading something about magnates been clamped together.
It's good to hear you don't think there is a problem.

Breaking the sticking spot problem would indeed be a great leap forward.
If a magnet can move 1 inch why not 1 mile
All the best
PC

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