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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 11859598 times)

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4725 on: July 16, 2014, 07:14:05 PM »
  As the new Zener diode delivery has not made it to my place, yet. I can't test to see if the heating of the Fets will be reduced by installing them, instead of the 12v 0.5 watt zeners that I'm currently using. The resistors that I'm using are the 10 OHM, that are recommended for the Mazilli crt that I posted previously. That circuit is what I built, as well. It is a fairly simple circuit, but several people have complaints about heating issues, also.

 

Nick,

Where are the 10R resistors placed in your circuit? I don't recall seeing any Mazilli circuit posted that had 10R resistors shown.

NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4726 on: July 16, 2014, 07:48:05 PM »
  Hoppy:
  Thanks for your concern, I appreciate it.
  The resistors that I'm currently using are the 10K OHM ones, not 10ohm, nor, 10R.
As are shown in the induction heater circuit shown below.
  I would think that using the bigger heftier diodes, zeners, resistors, and caps that Akula uses, makes for a much better circuit. Although he does have three heat-sinks and fans, on all his fets and transistors. For a reason... and those three fans also consume some juice from the circuit.

  EDIT:  After looking at the diagram, I may not have it right, as I have connected both the zener diodes, AND 10k resistors to the same blue colored (negative), which also goes to the battery negative rail. Is this wrong, or not?  As I can't tell from the circuit diagram.
   Also pictured below is one of Geo's diagrams, with diodes.

TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4727 on: July 16, 2014, 07:52:08 PM »
Well, if people won't listen to my advice, which I have given about these circuits several times before, maybe when itsu and void are telling you the same things (use multiple poly film caps of the same value in parallel to make up the total cap value needed, use short heavy direct symmetrical wiring paths for all the tank circuitry (mosfet drain, capacitor bank, coil), apply ample gate drive voltage, clean signal to gate, have the Gate circuitry tight and symmetrical) folks will take _their_ advice and your heating problems will go away. I'm sure you have all seen my videos where I run essentially the same circuit, using the same P260 mosfets, for long times at high power without any overheating problems in the circuit. The loads I run can overheat since they are getting so much power throughput, but the driver circuit itself does not run excessively hot, if I use the proper capacitors. The Sprague orange drops are very good and I recommend them, however I have been able to fail a couple of them from overvolting, usually in the receiver part of the complete apparatus. Select poly film caps that are voltage rated at 10 to 20 times your supply voltage! Build up your capacitance value by using several lower-value, equal, caps in parallel.
I like to use 10 caps of 1/10 the desired final capacitance value, just because it is easy to do the math. For example if you need 100 nF, use 10 ea. 10 nF in parallel, all the same, all with at least 250 V rating.
Part of the mosfet-heating problem is reflected power from the tank circuit. This is the same problem that CBers and Hams encounter with antenna matching. If your SWR is high you will have lots of power reflected back into the output transistors and they will overheat. In these present circuits "Low SWR" translates into symmetrical output wiring, few interconnects, short and heavy conductors for the tank itself.

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4728 on: July 16, 2014, 08:09:20 PM »
  Hoppy:
  Thanks for your concern, I appreciate it.
  The resistors that I'm currently using are the 10K OHM ones, not 10ohm, nor, 10R.
As are shown in the induction heater circuit shown below.
  I would think that using the bigger heftier diodes, zeners, resistors, and caps that Akula uses, makes for a much better circuit. Although he does have three heat-sinks and fans, on all his fets and transistors. For a reason... and those three fans also consume some juice from the circuit.

Nick,

The small 0.6W resistors are fine for the 10K. Make sure that the 470R resistors are at least 3W as shown. Enough has been said about the zeners! Your mosfets are fine. Most importantly, get a higher capacity batteries in good condition as you will still be pulling big amps at 24V!

Edit: Your zeners and 10K resistors are connected correctly. Please note that the zeners are there to help protect the mosfet gates from overvoltage. You may still experience mosfet overheating if you do not follow TK's advice above.

NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4729 on: July 16, 2014, 08:56:56 PM »
  Hoppy:
  Ok thanks for checking it out for me, and confirming that I have it right, as shown.

   This Mazilli circuit is basically USELESS, as is. It can only be run for a few seconds at a time, without overheating. That's why I don't recommend it to anyone. I tried it with two 12volt batteries in series, at 24 volts, and blew both of the IRFN260P fets, instantly. So, even though my batteries are old, this circuit could not handle that current, from basically dead batteries.  It doesn't matter if I just have a 25 watt bulb connected, or 7 100 watt bulbs, the overheating is present at any load.

  TinselKoala:
   I don't know if you are talking about my circuit, or in general. But, I am using short tight connections, soldered, and with several 400+ voltage poly caps in parallel, which are not heating up a bit.
   Please connect up a 700 hundred watt load to your IRF 260 fet circuit, and leave the circuit running for an hour, as a test to see that there is no overheating.
 I will believe it then.

SeaMonkey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4730 on: July 16, 2014, 09:34:55 PM »
Quote from: TinselKoala
Well, if people won't listen to my advice, which I have given about these circuits several times before, maybe when itsu and void are telling you the same things (use multiple poly film caps of the same value in parallel to make up the total cap value needed, use short heavy direct symmetrical wiring paths for all the tank circuitry (mosfet drain, capacitor bank, coil), apply ample gate drive voltage, clean signal to gate, have the Gate circuitry tight and symmetrical) folks will take _their_ advice and your heating problems will go away. I'm sure you have all seen my videos where I run essentially the same circuit, using the same P260 mosfets, for long times at high power without any overheating problems in the circuit. The loads I run can overheat since they are getting so much power throughput, but the driver circuit itself does not run excessively hot, if I use the proper capacitors. The Sprague orange drops are very good and I recommend them, however I have been able to fail a couple of them from overvolting, usually in the receiver part of the complete apparatus. Select poly film caps that are voltage rated at 10 to 20 times your supply voltage! Build up your capacitance value by using several lower-value, equal, caps in parallel.
I like to use 10 caps of 1/10 the desired final capacitance value, just because it is easy to do the math. For example if you need 100 nF, use 10 ea. 10 nF in parallel, all the same, all with at least 250 V rating.
Part of the mosfet-heating problem is reflected power from the tank circuit. This is the same problem that CBers and Hams encounter with antenna matching. If your SWR is high you will have lots of power reflected back into the output transistors and they will overheat. In these present circuits "Low SWR" translates into symmetrical output wiring, few interconnects, short and heavy conductors for the tank itself.

Your advice is good. :)

Experimenters who are accustomed to working with small
signal and power size bipolar transistors (Current Controlled)
where a Base Resistor is nearly always required in order to
limit Base Current, find the transition to using MOSFETs
a little bit confusing. ???

Unfortunately, many of the experimenter schematic diagrams
which circulate the forums show resistors in the Gate Drive
portion of the circuit which have values of resistance far too
high thus causing switching and overheating problems. :o

Many experimenters finally come to the realization that the
MOSFET requires from 10 Volts to 15 Volts of signal drive at
the Gate to fully turn it ON after a small pile have been destroyed
due to overheating. :'(

And it takes quite some time to become aware of the other
failure mechanisms of the MOSFET and how to incorporate
features into their circuits which will prevent such failures. 8)

Unfortunately, many experimenters who are attempting to
use MOSFETs need to do considerably more study of the devices
in order to be able to make use of them intelligently and in
such a way that stable, reliable performance is the result. :(

As you are well aware, once an experimenter learns a certain
way of "doing things" and accepts that as being the "right way"
then there will be resistance to any who attempt to explain why
what they're doing is really wrong.  Resistance to Change still
exists after several thousands of years of technical progress and
advancement.  It may in fact be stronger now than ever before. ??? :'(

The MOSFET (Near bottom of page=Why MOSFETs Fail)

MOSFET as a switch.

MOSFET getting hot.


Rome wasn't built in a day.  At the rate we're going with the
quest for the ever elusive Overunity and Excess Energy we
may never "git 'er dun." ;)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:43:20 PM by SeaMonkey »

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4731 on: July 16, 2014, 09:35:37 PM »
  Hoppy:
  Ok thanks for checking it out for me, and confirming that I have it right, as shown.

   This Mazilli circuit is basically USELESS, as is. It can only be run for a few seconds at a time, without overheating. That's why I don't recommend it to anyone. I tried it with two 12volt batteries in series, at 24 volts, and blew both of the IRFN260P fets, instantly. So, even though my batteries are old, this circuit could not handle that current, from basically dead batteries.  It doesn't matter if I just have a 25 watt bulb connected, or 7 100 watt bulbs, the overheating is present at any load.

Nick,

I did warn you about running it at 24V with the 12V zeners you have fitted! Follow all of the advice you have been given and you will succeed. Start afresh by completely re-wiring your components using the shortest possible heavy interconnections and use multiple caps in parallel (to minimise ESR) as TK advises. Power-up with a good and higher capacity 12V battery and only go to 24V when your happy that your mosfets are not overheating.

NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4732 on: July 16, 2014, 10:15:03 PM »
  Hoppy:
  I am following ALL the advice, even though not one of you has had any success to show for it. This means a self runner, which can be run 24/7, on 24v, (or NO battery), without over- heating issues.

  The schematic posted above, is showing that this same circuit can be run from 12v to 36v.  Using the SAME exact components that I have.
So, which is the part that I'm not following?

  The two fets were blown last year, not now, and have been replaced by the same exact fets. This while running on two dead 12v batteries. Imagine what two new 12v batteries would do. Heating issues are NOT resolved, nor have any of the suggestions made, make any difference on my circuit, as yet.
  I'm still waiting for my 18v zeners, to see IF there is any reduction in the overheating issue with the fets. Somehow, as MenofFather mentioned, fets are heating still even with the zeners that he used, in place.
   This circuit is an induction heater circuit, using 12v, 0.5 or 0.6 watt zeners for gate protection, as shown in the diagram. Neither the zeners, nor any of the 4 resistors, nor any of the tuning caps used are getting hot, at all. Nor is the feed back circuit getting hot or even warm NOW, as well. But, the Fets mounted on heat-sinks, with fans running would go up in smoke in a minute or two.
  I will however include bigger motherboard type of heat-sinks, and fans, in my next Akula build. As he has them on there, for a reason.

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4733 on: July 16, 2014, 11:50:17 PM »
  Hoppy:
  I am following ALL the advice, even though not one of you has had any success to show for it. This means a self runner, which can be run 24/7, on 24v, (or NO battery), without over- heating issues.

  The schematic posted above, is showing that this same circuit can be run from 12v to 36v.  Using the SAME exact components that I have.
So, which is the part that I'm not following?

  The two fets were blown last year, not now, and have been replaced by the same exact fets. This while running on two dead 12v batteries. Imagine what two new 12v batteries would do. Heating issues are NOT resolved, nor have any of the suggestions made, make any difference on my circuit, as yet.
  I'm still waiting for my 18v zeners, to see IF there is any reduction in the overheating issue with the fets. Somehow, as MenofFather mentioned, fets are heating still even with the zeners that he used, in place.
   This circuit is an induction heater circuit, using 12v, 0.5 or 0.6 watt zeners for gate protection, as shown in the diagram. Neither the zeners, nor any of the 4 resistors, nor any of the tuning caps used are getting hot, at all. Nor is the feed back circuit getting hot or even warm NOW, as well. But, the Fets mounted on heat-sinks, with fans running would go up in smoke in a minute or two.
  I will however include bigger motherboard type of heat-sinks, and fans, in my next Akula build. As he has them on there, for a reason.

Nick,

With respect, I'm not aware that you have followed all of the advice. You have yet to report that you have procured a 'healthy' battery with increased capacity to avoid excessive volt drop when powering your Mazilli load. I can assure you that its quite possible to run a properly constructed Mazilli at 24V or higher. The higher rated zeners are not going to solve your heating problem even with a 12V supply rail if the battery is inadequate and cannot supply sufficient voltage to the mosfet gates whilst under load.

magpwr

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4734 on: July 17, 2014, 12:25:45 AM »
  Hoppy:
  I am following ALL the advice, even though not one of you has had any success to show for it. This means a self runner, which can be run 24/7, on 24v, (or NO battery), without over- heating issues.

  The schematic posted above, is showing that this same circuit can be run from 12v to 36v.  Using the SAME exact components that I have.
So, which is the part that I'm not following?

  The two fets were blown last year, not now, and have been replaced by the same exact fets. This while running on two dead 12v batteries. Imagine what two new 12v batteries would do. Heating issues are NOT resolved, nor have any of the suggestions made, make any difference on my circuit, as yet.
  I'm still waiting for my 18v zeners, to see IF there is any reduction in the overheating issue with the fets. Somehow, as MenofFather mentioned, fets are heating still even with the zeners that he used, in place.
   This circuit is an induction heater circuit, using 12v, 0.5 or 0.6 watt zeners for gate protection, as shown in the diagram. Neither the zeners, nor any of the 4 resistors, nor any of the tuning caps used are getting hot, at all. Nor is the feed back circuit getting hot or even warm NOW, as well. But, the Fets mounted on heat-sinks, with fans running would go up in smoke in a minute or two.
  I will however include bigger motherboard type of heat-sinks, and fans, in my next Akula build. As he has them on there, for a reason.

Dear Nickz,

I just took a look at your youtube video -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6OX3E0AKB0 once more.

Please don't get me wrong if i say your heatsink don't comes with fins to dissipate heat.At the moment it is just a block of aluminium on the bottom which means this is good enough for short testing only.
If you get a proper heat-sink with fins which can be shared by 2 mosfet provided if there is think insulation between mosfet and heatsink and a mini 12v fan on heatsink it will assist to remove heat efficiently.

There is normally rating on heatsink on how many watt of power in heat can it dissipate efficiently.

My advise will help you save your mosfets$$$.

If you build mazilli like i did using some ultra fast components as shown in video with short-circuit test at output and show my mosfet don't get destroyed at all base on this setup with 12volt battery.
"This setup will save you money and prevent a downtime."

Ultimate Mazzilli circuit v1.0 (Short Circuit Proof tested)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u6gAUPlnTQ

If i were go for 24volts i will just unscrew connectors to mosfet and put in a IGBT which will surely run nicely on 18volts...20volts present at it's gate via pull up resistor.Tvs or zener diodes won't be required for igbt gates.

Dave45

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4735 on: July 17, 2014, 01:27:52 AM »
Nick this is an easier circuit to lay out, mine is built like this with no problems.
I used irfp460's

Dave45

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4736 on: July 17, 2014, 01:43:44 AM »
I built one on proto board but smoked it so the next one I breadboarded  ;D

Dave45

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4737 on: July 17, 2014, 01:50:22 AM »
You guys should take the time and build consumption meters, really helps.


NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4738 on: July 17, 2014, 02:22:45 AM »
  Although I've placed this link below before, more information is being added to it as time passes.
  http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/diy-induction-heater.htm

  rmcybernetics.com is also selling ready made high powered induction heater circuits, along with adjustable controls. Might be the way to go... these should be able to handle what we are trying to do with them.
Although Geo does not think that commercially made induction circuit will do. I don't agree, as these can provide 180 amp output with frequency and duty cycle controls.

  Guys, thanks for the suggestion. I will try to connect my car battery charger, (12v. 10 amps) to my Mazilli/yoke circuit, and will report back. It may be that my batteries just won't cut it any longer.
  But, what I'd really like to see, is someone running a similar induction circuit connected to the Tv yoke, as I have, and to let me know just how hot their fets get when drawing over 500 to 700 watt loads.
BTW: Magpwr, my heat-sinks do have holes, and fins on both sides, and I've placed two fans on them as well. They are not blocks of aluminum, only.

   As mentioned, I plan on changing my set up when the zeners arrive, or I'll have to try to obtain them elsewhere (not easy). I also plan to include the bigger heatsinks, fans, etz...
   As I'm only running tests on this circuit for a few seconds at a time now, so the fans are not needed, although I have used them several times previously, but to no avail, fets still getting way too hot.
   I suspect that Hoppy is right, and the old batteries are the problem here. Maybe the fets are not switching properly, etz...even though the battery voltage only drops by 1/2 volt or so, when running the circuit.
  This has been an ongoing problem for me from the day that I built this circuit, as well as my Joule Ringer circuit, which also has the same transistor heating problem, when running 60 watt plus incandescent bulbs.

 

x_name41

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #4739 on: July 17, 2014, 10:32:58 AM »
here my sequential variant of the x_name41 ZVS-oscillator :)

$ 1 5.0E-9 3.9121283998153213 50 5.0 50
r 416 416 416 464 0 22000.0
w 592 400 560 400 0
c 672 400 672 304 0 4.7000000000000005E-7 -50.011044416459285
w 576 432 560 432 0
w 672 304 768 304 2
w 768 304 768 320 0
w 768 384 768 400 0
w 672 400 768 400 1
w 576 432 576 496 0
w 576 496 320 496 0
v 320 400 320 320 0 0 40.0 3.7 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 320 400 320 496 0
r 320 224 320 320 0 0.1
w 320 224 384 224 0
w 384 224 416 224 0
t 512 416 560 416 0 1 0.5985110710656962 0.5985360585740224 1000.0
w 736 384 768 384 0
w 512 464 624 464 0
w 464 464 512 464 0
w 464 464 416 464 0
w 464 416 512 416 0
w 624 352 624 464 0
w 624 304 624 352 0
w 416 416 464 416 0
w 416 224 624 224 0
w 624 224 688 224 0
w 736 336 736 384 0
d 672 400 640 400 1 0.805904783
w 592 400 640 400 0
d 672 304 624 304 1 0.805904783
l 768 320 768 384 0 6.799999999999999E-6 0.1370705685779981
x 95 649 169 655 0 24 battery
x 313 649 471 655 0 24 inductor 6,8uH
x 550 646 722 652 0 24 capacitor 470nF
x 894 648 946 654 0 24 base
x 431 107 696 113 0 24 x_name41 ZVS oscillator
x 514 385 612 391 0 24 2SC3987
x 604 286 686 292 0 24 1N4007
x 641 436 723 442 0 24 1N4007
T 736 224 768 272 0 2.1999999999999998E-4 1.0 0.0016848985388366322 4.3452450357778227E-4 0.999
w 688 224 736 224 0
w 736 224 736 208 0
w 736 272 736 336 0
w 736 208 800 208 0
w 800 208 800 272 0
w 768 272 800 272 0
w 768 224 784 224 0
w 784 224 784 304 0
w 784 304 768 304 0
x 708 198 849 204 0 24 220uH choke
o 10 64 0 298 5.0 0.2 0 -1
o 10 64 0 297 2.5 0.4 0 -1
o 10 64 1 299 1.25 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 30 64 0 298 80.0 12.8 1 -1
o 30 64 0 297 40.0 25.6 1 -1
o 30 64 1 291 640.0 9.765625E-5 1 -1
o 2 64 0 298 80.0 12.8 2 -1
o 2 64 0 297 40.0 25.6 2 -1
o 2 64 1 299 640.0 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 20 64 0 298 1.25 7.8125E-4 3 -1
o 20 64 0 297 0.625 0.0015625 3 -1