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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 1049888 times)

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1710 on: December 29, 2013, 01:24:48 AM »
A) is this a trick question?you gota be kidding me man.B)a real-life maxwell demon is a totaly passive thing @sarkeizen.for example,you get some types of perpetuum mobile using osmosis membranes.these let water through but hold salts back,without erasing information,without active sorting.you are going to have to integrate passive demons into your theories if necessary.C) well i had to resort to explaining everything via the nernst equation but i see now that that wont even be necessary because of this wiki article.i should thank you for pressuring me into discovering this little jewel @sarkeizen so let me use it ok?

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1710 on: December 29, 2013, 01:24:48 AM »

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1711 on: December 29, 2013, 02:04:30 AM »
A) is this a trick question?
I don't see how.  Either you spent an eternal amount of time observing your battery run or you did not.  Please answer.

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a real-life maxwell demon is a totaly passive thing
Wrong.  Absolutely nothing about MD necessitates it's totally passive or active (examples of both have appeared in the literature if you actually took the time to read instead of working hard at being the worlds largest moron)  So again, Philip appeared to state that his device is in fact a MD device.  In which case information theory and complexity theory say he is wrong.  Again these are so much stronger than Philips fairy dust.  It is more rational to consider him simply in error.
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so let me use it ok?
You can't use it to support the statement you made.  If you want to discuss ANOTHER DIFFERENT statement. fine but first ADMIT you can not support the statement you made.  Anything can happen from that point on.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 06:26:42 AM by sarkeizen »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1712 on: December 29, 2013, 11:40:25 AM »
A) see.i knew it was a trick question.who is eternal enough to watch eternity @sarkeizen?all machines must break someday(angry neighbor,kids,pets).this doesnt mean they,re not useful right? B)did phillip appear to state it or did he state it @sarkeizen.i dont see him hammering that idea but lets chat about it anyway coz its interesting.how does a passive demon interfere with information theory?does information theory require erasure of information or not @sarkeizen.i can see some sort of information erasure when switching a quenco on and off i.e. one entropy state 'forgets' or 'overrides'the other when switched.an electrical entropy need overrides a temperature entropy need in that case only so long as there is electrical contact. C) I can use it-look: wikipedia acknowledges the existance of an oxygen concentration cell.wikipedia acknowledges it can exist under ambient conditions.wikipedia acknowledges that its potential arises due to differing exposure to oxygen.3 givens for an ambient pressure gaseous concentration cell.this sustains my statement about such cells by following rules about such cells.we conclude that wikipedia info sustains an cell that violates kelvins statement.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1712 on: December 29, 2013, 11:40:25 AM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1713 on: December 29, 2013, 07:43:37 PM »
A) see.i knew it was a trick question.who is eternal enough to watch eternity
Is that a "No, I didn't observe it operating eternally Or Yes, I did observe it operating for an eternal period of time"?  Unlike your questions, you clearly had to be doing one or the other.
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B)did phillip appear to state it or did he state it
He said his machine sorts molecules based on their heat.  That's what MD did.  Your problem is you think "passive" and "active" are meaningful distinctions from complexity theory or information theory...and they aren't.  There is no distinction.
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I can use it-look
Sorry, not interested.  If you can't admit that you lost the "Any electrochemistry textbook" argument.   That you are unable to support your position with any electrochemistry text.    Then I see no reason that you will admit you are wrong in some other argument.  When you man up, then we can discuss something else.

I guess it's still fun to see you backed against the wall and afraid to answer my questions.  Keep it up.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1714 on: December 29, 2013, 09:32:16 PM »
A)you didnt answer my question with a yes or no so why should i answer your question with a yes or no @sarkeizen.answer my question first then i,l answer your question.do you think it is rational for a science teacher to ask a student to build a wikipedia-based oxygen concentration cell.yes or no. B)well i can tell you straight,an osmosis membrane distinguishes molecules wether a kelvin violation or not.how does that affect your theory? C) i can use the nernst equation to prove a kelvin violation.you would think that that involves all electrochemisty textbooks.and,i can use wikipedia to build a kelvin violation.you would think that its perhaps you up against a wall?

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1714 on: December 29, 2013, 09:32:16 PM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1715 on: December 29, 2013, 11:41:04 PM »
A)you didnt answer my question with a yes or no so why should i answer your question with a yes or no
Because your question wasn't collectively exhaustive and you only wanted a "yes" or "no".  People who understand logic call that a 'false dichotomy'.  Whereas my question IS collectively exhaustive and mutually exclusive.  So you have to have either been eternally observing something or you haven't.  I just want to know which one.   See the difference?  Probably not....rofl.
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an osmosis membrane distinguishes molecules
Please provide a cite, from a reputable printed textbook where it is explicitly and specifically stated where molecules are being sorted by heat consuming less energy than gained in the process.
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C) i can use
Nothing.  Not interested until you admit that you can't support your original statement because once I cut that one down you'll just switch again.  You've only been dishonest with me.  So this is simply rational.  Your desire to keep this equilibrium only really serves you if I'm right and you're wrong.   So please continue as long as you like.
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you would think that its perhaps you up against a wall?
ROFL.  Unlikely.  You are the one who has spent about hundred posts trying not to directly answer a simple and obvious question.  If all textbooks that you find in places like libraries and bookstores agree and predict an eternally running battery.  Then where is one example? You will happily spend a hundred more posts doing the same thing because you can't admit that you can't support that statement.  Losing that argument is obviously more expensive to you than just typing evasion after evasion.

Me?  I have no fear of you answering that question.  I'm rather certain you're wrong or mistaken but I'm happy to embrace the truth.  However you simply evade and evade and evade (and lie).  So I doubt I have anything to worry about in either case.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1716 on: December 30, 2013, 12:32:22 AM »
A) DO YOU THINK IT IS RATIONAL FOR A SCIENCE TEACHER TO ASK A STUDENT TO BUILD A WIKIPEDIA-BASED OXYGEN CONCENTRATION CELL @SARKEIZEN.(the caps are compensation for leaving out the yes and no).B)oh so it has to be a kelvin-busting demon to screw up your theory? You couldve just said so.C)ive never seen 1 textbook giving an example of a bismuth metal concentration cell.does that mean it doesnt exist?dont be silly man,the nernst equation covers wikipedia-type O2 concentration cells too ya know,therefore the nernst equation can predict a wikipedia-type O2 cell using any textbook namsayn.a wikipedia-type O2 cell is a perpetual motion device of the 2nd kind.see the link?

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1716 on: December 30, 2013, 12:32:22 AM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1717 on: December 30, 2013, 02:26:49 AM »
A) DO YOU THINK IT IS RATIONAL FOR A SCIENCE TEACHER TO ASK A STUDENT TO BUILD A WIKIPEDIA-BASED OXYGEN CONCENTRATION CELL @SARKEIZEN.(the caps are compensation for leaving out the yes and no)
No idea. Now answer my question.  Did you actually observe a device powering something eternally?
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B)oh so it has to be a kelvin-busting demon to screw up your theory? You couldve just said so
I'm just talking about what the literature states.  I'd expect you would have read something about such deviced when you decided to lecture on how "passive" devices can't possibly be held to information theory.
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C)ive never seen 1 textbook giving an example of a bismuth metal concentration cell.does that mean it doesnt exist?
Still trying to squirm out and avoid the question?  Awesome, keep  it up.
 
Again some moron who has a name remarkably similar to yours said:
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no need to observe.its written and predicted in  textbooks under section 'electrode concentration cells' .again,do you want to question the credibility of all and every textbook on electrochemistry?
Again, I'd like to hear you actually admit that you can't support this statement you made.  If you want to talk about something else. after be my guest
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using any textbook
Then by all means, go get one and get me a cite...or refuse and admit you can't support your statement. I figure you must have at least ONE lying around the hovel.  I mean since you went on and on and on about how it's in any textbook.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 06:27:54 AM by sarkeizen »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1718 on: December 30, 2013, 03:08:39 PM »
A)busy doing that B)well if you actualy build and watch the OXYGEN CONCENTRATION CELL MENTIONED IN WIKIPEDIA in action you might wana change your theory @sarkeizen. C)written: E= RT/nF ln a1/a2 (in all electrochemistry textbooks) therefore predicted E= RT/nF ln a(O2)1(1atm)/a(O2)2(1atm) by all electrochemistry textbooks therefore at equilibrium E= 0 and a(O2)1 = a(O2)2 and Patm(O2)1 > Patm(O2)2 exactly proportional to the original activity difference a.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 10:21:51 PM by profitis »

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1718 on: December 30, 2013, 03:08:39 PM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1719 on: December 30, 2013, 04:16:35 PM »
A)busy doing that
Can you tell me if you watched the device for an eternal period of time at the time of my question?
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B)well if you actualy build and watch
You said..
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no need to observe.i
So clearly this is a different argument.  Please go back to the argument about citing something from any textbook.  If you can't support that argument then just say so.
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by all electrochemistry textbooks
Then please go get a cite.  I could mention that you promised to do this several times.  Why so afraid of doing what will a) Make your point, b) keep your word and c) Prove me wrong.    Everything is in your favor if you do what you agreed to do.  So given that you would get everything you seem to want by doing something you claim is easy but you continually refuse.  Then the likely answer is you are lying to me in some way.  If you had not lied repeatedly in the past I'd have given equal odds to "Trolling" but now I start to think you don't own an electrochemestry textbook and don't know where to get one.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1720 on: December 30, 2013, 10:09:17 PM »
A)can you tell me why your being such an E.O.A? Give me a question of equivalent sense as the one i asked you and we,re on @sarkeizen.B)what happened to B?come back to B and face B @sarkeizen.you must change your theory C) written E= 0.059/2 log a1/a2 (by sienko & plane chemistry,principals and applications 3rd edition page 304,nernst equation) and therefore predicted E = 0.059/2 log a( 1/2 O2)1 p1/a( 1/2 O2)2 p1(this is the formula for the wikipedia O2 conc.cell)

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1720 on: December 30, 2013, 10:09:17 PM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1721 on: December 31, 2013, 02:56:56 AM »
A)can you tell me why your being such an E.O.A?
That would be you.  I asked you a simple question and you have attempted to dodge it forever.  No reason really why.
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B)what happened to B?come back to B and face B @sarkeizen.you must change your theory
Explain, B sounded just like another one of your stupid dodges...so does anything you type...because until today that's all you have done.
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C) written E= 0.059/2 log a1/a2 (by sienko & plane chemistry,principals and applications 3rd edition page 304,nernst equation)
Wow, was that so hard?  Why did it take you months asshole?  So now I've actually got something to read yay.  Assuming the book exists and I can find one.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1722 on: December 31, 2013, 08:53:43 AM »
A) i had to dodge it.all my textbooks are so overused that they,re lying around in tatters.only found the cover page with authors now.still want that koffee? :-). B)B was your thing @sarkeizen.you said that a kelvin violation would affect your theory and since you now know how to build one and which book to use to help you build one tell us how its going to affect it.cmon,dont leave us in suspense. C)you only made it harder for yourself ya'know.now you have to run around looking for sienko&plane 3rd edition when you couldve pulled any electrochemistry,physical chemistry,or analytical chemistry textbook from the shelf instead,like i kept trying to tell you all along man.silly-silly @sarkeizen.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1723 on: December 31, 2013, 03:39:26 PM »
A) i had to dodge it.
Please answer the question.  Did you observe the device operating eternally at the time I asked the question?
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you said that a kelvin violation would affect your theory
Not quite.  I said that information theory makes Philips belief, that he has created a 2LOT violating MD device highly unlikely.  It's stronger evidence than Philips beliefs.  Whether that has anything to do with batteries is another matter.
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you only made it harder for yourself ya'know.now you have to run around looking for sienko&plane 3rd edition
Seriously?  How long does it take you to order a book or reserve it from a library?  I clocked it at under 10 minutes.  You trolled for three months.  Asshole.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1724 on: December 31, 2013, 06:30:20 PM »
A)yes B)whoooar! Are you saying that the class of cells discussed here fall more in line with information theory than the proposed quenco?talk to me @sarkeizen.i know you,ve been calculating a whole lotta shit under the desk.C)yeah but the phonecall costed you,and now you have to hope that either the delivery guy or the library guy didnt misplace that book or worse,puke over it.silly. 

 

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