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2nd "law" violations => Heat to electric energy conversion => Topic started by: Philip Hardcastle on April 04, 2012, 11:00:30 AM

Title: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 04, 2012, 11:00:30 AM

 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( ;D

For those interested, following my success in isothermal heat to power conversion at 500C (the sebithenco device) I have now progressed to a solid state technology just a few nm thick and 1,000,000,000x more powerful, and at room temperature to boot.


 www.quentron.com
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 05, 2012, 10:56:17 PM
Previously we had expected to make a public announcement in early May 2012, however we have revised our plans and now have scheduled to make available a full press release on June 11 (2012), to the extent that we can, without harming IP rights, we will also publish certificates, lab reports and video of operating devices. Obviously until patents are issued we are restricted on what we can divulge re the detail of the device but we expect full details to be available before the launch of the eternal battery product (once the battery is available we see that keeping secrets will be futile as the device can be STM probed).


A few people have contacted me re distribution of the 1.2V eternal hearing aid battery product we will be releasing in the 2nd half of 2012, we advise that at this stage we have no plans to sell the batteries other than via our own e-commerce site, however for larger power units (not planned for commercial release before 2013) we will be interested to hear from interested parties following the press release in June.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 07, 2012, 04:36:05 AM
I have received a few questions as to why hearing aid batteries, why not something bigger?


The answer is that the simplest first product to make is a quenco with virtually no complexity and immediately usable, with about 50million hearing aids being used in the World there is clearly a need for an eternal cell, the cost of people buying the disposable batteries comes to far more than $100 a year if the aid is used frequently / continuously, so $100 for an eternal battery is economical and practical (no more having the aid stop working for a flat battery).


If we assume that 1 in 10 decide to use a quenco cell then that is $500 million of sales which can then be pumped back in to more powerful products. Additional sales of cells are also anticipated simply as you could buy them for any application you want, and it may be that sales of cells for alternate use might exceed hearing aid use 10:1. Overall as a simple means into the market and a demonstration device a hearing aid battery is a reasonable choice.


Also I do not plan to personally make quenco much beyond the first year, I envisage the advancement of the fundamental technology to be done by many organisations (or individuals), so I do not wish to set up a complex production facility, it would be fun to do many things but it would be silly to even try to do it all myself.


So for those that think I should make a unit to power a house I think they need to understand that large scale quenco devices will need highly specialised production equipment known as roll to roll ALD, furthermore a lot of engineering is required to go from an enabling technology to commercial product and that necessarily involves teams of people and man years of work.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on April 07, 2012, 09:09:54 AM
Reminds me of this article:

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/mar/08/graphene-in-new-battery-breakthrough

And as you say once your product hits the market it won't take long before it's reversed engineered and sold probably MUCH cheaper especially in China where IP is nearly non existent so I see why you're asking price for a single cell is so high, cash in while the exclusivity lasts eey.
Well I wish you luck and I hope we'll be seeing these cells in all our devices soon.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 08, 2012, 05:17:33 PM
Thanks Broli,


I agree that the price will plummet (whether from pirating or scale) and the power output will increase dramatically in year 2, that is what I wish for. I can only hope that China will adopt quenco for utility scale power generation as soon a possible, even if I get no monetary return. We need to have significant reduction in coal power generation in China and other countries if we are going to have any chance of avoiding cataclysmic global warming.


Being 100% genuine about all this, the money from the eternal cells will simply be insurance so that if governments fail to engage with me for the common good then I can make sure that quenco can be developed for the people, ie I can use the money from battery sales to set up large scale production to sell as cheaply as possible large quenco for home power and such.


What would be ideal is for me to step aside asap and let those capable of doing production on a war time scale take it over, even if I get only 0.01% of what the IP is worth, after all how much money can a rational person want for their own personal use? With the launch in June and all the certificates from govt recognized bodies attached, I hope that I can sit down with scientific and government bodies / organisations with a view to mass production in all countries as an urgent agenda.


I have been asked by email a few times now to give details re the quenco but I will not do so until after all the full patents are filed, all the lab work is finished and written up, and certainly not prior to the launch in June, what I am willing to divulge is that quenco is simple and that almost any company of modest size could tool up to make it. I estimate in mass production quenco film (using roll to roll ALD) will be less than a cent per Watt, and I hope we can drive it down to 0.1c /W.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on April 08, 2012, 05:47:32 PM
Best of luck with this.  It sounds like a great solution.  Just make sure you have a backup to a backup plan to make sure your info is not lost since any announcement that can have major economic impact on big companies has the potential to garner attention of the dark forces.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 09, 2012, 09:39:13 AM
Hi e2,


Thanks for the good luck wish.


I do not personally buy into the oft rumoured dark forces but as it happens I have taken quite a few precautions to cover the possibility of being run over by a bus. There are no less than 6 scientists, 2 engineers, and 3 major companies in possession of technical documents relating to the quenco, There are also a few close friends that hold a number of signed and dated documents for quenco as IP protection. All these individuals, companies and universities are bound by commercial in confidence and NDA agreements, or by trust, but if I did drop dead it would only be a matter of weeks before there would be some reaction so there is zero chance of the info being lost.


****Just in case there really really really are dark forces reading this then they should consider that bumping me off will not suppress quenco, it might even make some sceptics pay more attention and thus accelerate the process***


If the dark forces want to target someone please contact me through the quentron website contact page and I can provide the names of some particular obnoxious and stupid sceptics who post on the moletrap, hardly three brain cell between the lot of them.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 10, 2012, 01:19:20 AM
You'll laugh at this.


Following my joke above about the dark forces, the loud mouth obnoxious sceptics banned me! They say they felt threatened, funny as any time any member of this forum or other mentions dark forces the moletrap morons say it is evidence of madness and paranoia, so it seems that left to fester on their own they have inbred into their own form of fetid madness.


The only reason I mention sceptics is because in my view there are useful sceptics, those that challenge ideas and debate topics, and then there are those old men that never did anything useful in their life who want to knock and put down everyone else who tries. I have proved a device and had that proof independently replicated but people like them (the sceptics that do not care to think or listen) do not even falter in their bitter name calling. It matters not of course as I will show on June 11 but I just want to share my experience to encourage all inventors not to let idiots get under your skin or halt your work. We all need to work together to save our planet from global warming and I hope members of Overunity will take my device and not only replicate it but accelerate the use, and breadth of use of it.


I do however apologize to anyone that took my suggestion for dark forces to contact me seriously, I do not have any malice to anyone, even those that call me horrid names, whatever their motivation. Life really is too short to let negative and bitter people spoil it.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Freeestenergie on April 10, 2012, 01:42:50 AM
Sounds exciting, but your version that is 1,000,000 x better, what is the measured energy, or is it calculated?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 11, 2012, 07:38:57 AM
@freeestenergie


Your first post and you choose only me, it makes me think you are a moletrap member just posting here out of malice?


In any case your question is wrong, loaded and silly.


Firstly if you read the first post here (above) it says 1,000,000,000 not 1,000,000, why I stated the larger number will make sense when you read on, however the actual improvement over sebithenco and the proof of concept tests remain confidential for an exact calculation might provide information to allow reverse engineering.


Secondly Quenco does not create energy, it converts energy. The energy it converts is the heat it is supplied and more specifically it extracts kinetic energy from hot tail energy electrons converting that energy into an electrical potential. IE If you only supply a Joule of heat you can only extract a Watt, at least at a point of equilibrium. So the device does not create energy and I have never claimed that it did.


Third it is almost impossible to answer even if I was prepared to ignore the Second point, the website already explains that the device is limited by the ability to get heat into it, so the question would need to very much more detailed than you have posed but in any case you can do the math yourself on 11 June 2012.


Fourth if you read above you will see that I am not releasing any technical data until after all IP protection, lab notes and such are prepared for publication, signed, witnessed and distributed to important parties.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: markdansie on April 11, 2012, 08:23:40 AM
The graphene battery article you refer to is interesting. Others have had trouble replicating it. However it lends itself to solid state production using other materials that also the necessary  ion collisions with the Graphene.
Philip's device I suspect would improve with surface area hence moving to thin film (ALD) techniques. Using the correct architecture you can put  a house block in surface area in a cm cube. It is also possible to print down to 20 nanometres thick film using litho techniques.
Kind Regards
Mark Dansie
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on April 11, 2012, 10:13:30 AM

Heat into electrcity-parametric oscillator. Is it this technology?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Freeestenergie on April 11, 2012, 10:25:45 AM
@freeestenergie


Your first post and you choose only me, it makes me think you are a moletrap member just posting here out of malice?



I read the moletrap mostly - not everyone who posts is made welcome  :( - and follow here from there. I am not "black ops" or anything, and not malicious (I think). 1,000,000,000 is a very large number, so it seems unlikely as a jump, so I've asked, nothing more, it doesn't seem silly to me.

I don't think I will trust myself to calculate so I'll just wait but things usually take longer than we plan.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 11, 2012, 10:26:42 AM
@Mark, Hi, to avoid confusion on this thread it was Broli that referred to the graphene article, quenco has absolutely nothing to do with that reported device. Also Quenco is much thinner than 20nm and fabrication relies on Atomic Layer Deposition fabrication and so the used units are Angstroms (1E-10).


I can say (without giving away any trade secrets) that for a 1.5v quenco chip of say 20um thickness the vast majority of that thickness is the end contact substrate, in other words we could supply them (1.5v quenco) at less than 20nm thickness, but how would you handle them?



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 11, 2012, 10:52:12 AM
@Qwert,


That was a very interesting pdf.


Clearly however we crossed posts and I guess it is obvious that quenco is not like that.


@Freeestenergie,


Apologies to you for falsely accusing you.


I really will not discuss anything in enough detail here to satisfy your curiosity, but let me meet you mid way and say that if you use the classical Quantum Tunneling equations you will see that as the thickness of a barrier (insulator) decreases the electron tunneling probability increases "exponentially".


Folks, I will not respond to anymore questions here, if you have some specific query that you want answered you can post it on my contact page and I will respond if I can, but probably not until after 11 June.


Thanks
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Freeestenergie on April 11, 2012, 11:33:26 AM
@Qwert,


That was a very interesting pdf.


Clearly however we crossed posts and I guess it is obvious that quenco is not like that.


@Freeestenergie,


Apologies to you for falsely accusing you.


I really will not discuss anything in enough detail here to satisfy your curiosity, but let me meet you mid way and say that if you use the classical Quantum Tunneling equations you will see that as the thickness of a barrier (insulator) decreases the electron tunneling probability increases "exponentially".


Folks, I will not respond to anymore questions here, if you have some specific query that you want answered you can post it on my contact page and I will respond if I can, but probably not until after 11 June.


Thanks

Ha, no need, many worse things have been said, and with no prompt. Good luck!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 12, 2012, 04:44:00 PM
I received a few question about what are my plans, other than hearing aid batteries.


The simple answer is I do not know, I would like the technology to belong to everyone.


For all the years of effort I would like to get a fair but modest financial return.


I thought of asking governments if they would pay me a small fee so that the rights to use the technology would belong to every citizen.


My crude idea is to ask the USA government if it wanted to buy the rights by paying me a dime per head of population, then everyone in the USA would be granted the right to make and sell quenco without paying any further fee.


I know this is a strange idea but I thought it was better than me accepting offers from multinationals who would then make everyone pay a high amount to get the benefits of the technology. If everyone had the right to build quenco then competition would be high and roll out rapid. This is the best scenario to halt CO2 emissions, I think.


If anyone has an idea on how a technology should be rolled out please post here.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on April 13, 2012, 08:50:25 PM
Hello Mr.Philip Hardcastle,
it is diad tech or it is not ?
Something like this:
Dr. Alvin Marks
Ordered dipolar light electric power converter
EP0176781 
production price estimation 1984 : go to [0013]

Lumeloid,Lepcon,Quensor , nice inventions,I agree.

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 14, 2012, 01:59:34 AM
Hello Mr.Philip Hardcastle,
it is diad tech or it is not ?
Something like this:
Dr. Alvin Marks
Ordered dipolar light electric power converter
EP0176781 
production price estimation 1984 : go to [0013]

Lumeloid,Lepcon,Quensor , nice inventions,I agree.

Sincerely
                 CdL


Hi, Nothing like that, quenco converts ambient heat, not photons.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: aaron5120 on April 14, 2012, 04:15:08 PM
Sir,
Please consider the following option:
www.kickstarter.com
It is the world's largest funding platform for creative projects. You may submit your project to the consideration of the whole world, and get funded in a few months for beginning to beta trial production of your invention. If the idea is attractive enough to the internet public, they are well prepared to over-fund your project by several orders of magnitude( like many projects did in the past there).
Please have a look of some of the most notoriously successful projects in the site.
http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/technology/most-funded
I will be one of them to fund your project, should you post your invention there.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on April 14, 2012, 04:33:14 PM
Hi Philip,

I agree with Aaron, KickStarter may be a viable route to take. For something as helpful as hearing aid batteries I would pitch in. My sister needs batteries all the time and they are expensive. $30-$40 for six batteries and insurance doesn't cover them. Your technology would do lots of good.

Here is an example of a project:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1203647021/the-powerpot
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on April 14, 2012, 08:50:14 PM
Okay Mr. Hardcastle, I thank you for the fast response !
No photons based but ambient heat .
Phonons,thermal noise ?

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on April 15, 2012, 02:45:05 AM
Never try to get in touch with anyone from the USA government.

Politicians don´t want to give up their power
over the people, so these are the wrong and worst people to contact.

You would either land in jail or your ideas would be
stolen or closed away...

Yes, better use Kickstarter or just build enough samples yourself and
sell them at one time, so if a few hundreds are already out there
they can´t kill it anymore...

You can also sell books or plans about it on ebay for example, how to build them..
This would be the easiest thing... if it could be done homemade...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 15, 2012, 04:11:53 AM
Thanks Aaron and Dream for your idea about kickstarter.


@ Cdl, I did say  a few posts ago that I would not answer further questions, I will respond to your question by saying not strictly speaking phonons.


@ Stephan, thanks for your advice. I must say it seems a common view that government is the last place one should seek a partnership with which seems to be at odds with the view that the government is for the people, perhaps ego, power and greed are the darker forces that exist even among people of good intentions.


My view is that I have a moral obligation to make sure it becomes public property as soon as possible but I also have a right to make some profit to compensate me for my efforts and foregone earnings. I considered the kickstarter idea as a means of getting attention but I cannot bring myself to ask for funding when I have my own funds (I am selling 2 properties to fund a small factory). I am not looking for a handout from anyone.


What I would ask is that those that read my posts simply tell 10 others to pay attention and to ask 10 of their friends to do the same.


www.quentron.com (http://www.quentron.com)



Thanks for your help and encouragement.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 15, 2012, 03:05:50 PM
Hi All,


Further to my last post, please spread the word that the launch date is 11 June 2012 and on that day I will post as much proof of the device as I can that will not affect IP rights, this should include independent reports, data and video.


Unlike Rossi and Steorn I will provide clear and unambiguous proof of a working device.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 21, 2012, 11:27:36 AM
Hi Everyone,

As a strategy to get the Worlds attention, and therefore to accelerate the development of quenco for power applications that can impact CO2 emissions, I have decided to produce a few 3.7V Phone batteries that never needs to be recharged and to courier them to Nokia, Blackberry or Apple + ? ?.

The quenco phone battery would be intentionally limited to output a maximum of 5W so as not to cause too much thermal stress or hand chilling.

I appreciate any views as to which phones most need an eternal battery (the ones with the biggest power consumption I guess).

I will still make the hearing aid batteries as the first retail quenco product sold from my website.

Thanks
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on April 21, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Hi Everyone,

As a strategy to get the Worlds attention, and therefore to accelerate the development of quenco for power applications that can impact CO2 emissions, I have decided to produce a few 3.7V Phone batteries that never needs to be recharged and to courier them to Nokia, Blackberry or Apple + ? ?.

The quenco phone battery would be intentionally limited to output a maximum of 5W so as not to cause too much thermal stress or hand chilling.

I appreciate any views as to which phones most need an eternal battery (the ones with the biggest power consumption I guess).

I will still make the hearing aid batteries as the first retail quenco product sold from my website.

Thanks

I would say stick to the iPhone as that's what the sheeple are most fond of. But the iPhone's battery is internal so it would be hard for the average joe and jane to replace it even though it's really simple. Since you're not that interested in production but rather licensing.
Then if you want to get KNOWN and fast send a working cell for an iPhone 4s to www.engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com) and tell them to use it and review it. But just be prepared for the mountain of attention you'll get, and make sure it doesn't kill you :p. These blogs have millions of tech savy followers who'll make it go viral, it would be much more effective than sending it to the companies doorstep and hoping for the best.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 22, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Hi Broli,

Your idea is actually quite brilliant.

I consulted a few people and they agree that the following of people on engadget is massive and that it would do more to prove quenco to the World in a week than probably any other strategy.

I suppose the issue is to get the right people at engadget to talk with me and for them to agree to doing the tests, any chance a reader here has an inside to engadget people and would get them to give me a call??
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 22, 2012, 01:22:33 PM
Hi Everyone,

I have posted on www.quentron.com a page about an offer from Dick Smith to include quenco in his million dollar prize offer that he first made to LENR.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on April 22, 2012, 01:55:00 PM
Sounds good.
Maybe you could at least post a picture of your device instead of the cute Koala bear ?

This would probably not make your patent void but would make it more believable..

How big is your 1.2 Volt device ? Does it fit in a hearing aid device and
how much current does it deliver approximately constantly if the room temperatur
is at about 22 to 25 degrees Celsius ?

Can you already tell these parameters ?


Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S: Putting several in series and parallel to get an "indefinite" Iphone battery
is a good idea and would really make headlines... if you could deliver it to
an online tech magazine for them to test...!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on April 22, 2012, 07:44:04 PM
Before contacting engadget you should at least have a working iPhone battery. There's enough people you can contact at engadget, here's a list http://www.engadget.com/about. You can disclose it as some early technological prototype than you wish to give engadget as an exclusive to report on.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 23, 2012, 06:30:47 AM
I have deleted the million dollar prize page on the website.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mscoffman on April 23, 2012, 08:19:35 PM
Philip;
 
(a) Do you have any ideas about what the scientific laws
that will replace the Carnot's perfect gas cycle engine
and refrigerator thermodynamic laws will look like once
your device has been proven to work? I mean this
question with the utmost respect to you and your
invention.
 
It seems to me that if either the heat engine or the heat
refrigerator in a Carnot' loop becomes more efficient beyond
a specific amounts then a second law of thermodynamics
violator can become a first law violator and perpetual
motion machines beyond Mawell's Demons become possible.
(b)Does some other limitation kick in to prevent this
from happening, or does this really go on and happen.
I'm wondering if this limitation might reflect the differences
between latent and radiant heating.
 
(c)If certain LENR devices could make use of your invention
then their complexity drops enormously, putting them back
in a race for least-parts-count LENR device leadership to
produce upgraded (electrical) energy. Have you considered
how to handle this probably rather disruptive circumstance?
 
Thank you in advance for your input. Wishing you the best
in your new product launch.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on April 24, 2012, 04:38:18 AM
Sorry for the delay in answering questions, things are busy at the moment.

@Stefan, the quencos being made for hearing aids are just 1mm x 1mm x 50um thick, so they look like a bit of glitter.

@ broli, yes I am jumping the gun by a few months but it would be nice to talk to engadget and set something up, they can have a hearing aid battery to evaluate before the iPhone battery.
 
@ mscoffaman, I get into enough trouble just stating a violation of the Kelvin interpretation of the 2nd Law so please do not even suggest I am claiming a violation of the First Law of TD. Quenco is a logical and very simple device, it converts a small percentage of tail energy electrons (the hotter than average) and in doing so converts kinetic energy to electrical potential energy, there is no creation of energy and therefore no violation of the 1st law.

I will not be posting anything more here until a few days before the launch. On the launch I will be posting lots of good stuff to leave you with no doubt that quenco is the real deal.

Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on April 26, 2012, 02:40:11 AM
Hi Phillip Hardcastle.


Is good to see you again, We believe in your work.  The theory of previous designs was very good, I hope that this new application, a solid state device, with the help of God,  will be a complete success.

The 100$ battery is a good way to get recognition, keep the good work, the world needit. Any battery maker will be happy to test and buy your IP, inclusive in china.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 07, 2012, 01:58:12 PM
Thanks Elisha.


I have posted some updates including an idea I have adopted from comments to build a USB eternal power source.


www.quentron.com



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 07, 2012, 03:07:25 PM
Again one of the technologies I'm really looking forward to this year.

 I hope you stick to the "get famous quick" plan. Engadget (or Gizmodo, The Verge,..), like discussed earlier, will help immensely! After you do this it could become your strongest asset and be a huge leverage to start a crowdfunded project at Kickstarter or variants, which I'm sure will be a huge succes even if the goal was set at 1mil USD. No need to chase investors, no need for backroom deals and shady contracts, this funding can help you get the first year market penetration you desired. After that the world will go crazy and you can sit back and relax.

Be as unconventional as possible, the Internet is an essentially free and very powerful medium use it to your advantage. Of course be careful as well, I'm not a conspiracy nut but strage things tend to happen. But if this goes viral, you the inventor will become deattached from the technology so even if an "unforseen" event happened to you the technology would be safe. The key element hear is proving it as fast as possible by getting it in the hands of influential people.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 08, 2012, 03:41:03 AM
Hi Phillip


The first think that you must to do is dump the fear.  This is a new world with new rules, the first rule is work together, in unity with all the world.  You allready make your part, the invention, let the world make the rest, use the power of internet.  Let engineers do the device, let big manufactures make the device, set yourself aside and let anothers do the work that they know to do.


Like broli say, "get famous quick", in the right way, dont have any fear of suppresion, copycat, fear of loosing control of your invention, everybody know that a inventor need the money for the inventions, make the intellectual property, patent, but dont put your fate in this, soon you will discover a lot of brillant scientifics that make your device a lot more powerfull, dont compite with the copycat, work with them, make them work for all the world, they will work for you.

The use of kickstarter is good option, the universal mini usb charger is also good.

The world will recognize you, like a great inventor or like another little egoistic inventor, this depend on you.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 18, 2012, 01:46:05 PM
Hi All and Elisha and Broli,


First I have upgraded www.quentron.com (http://www.quentron.com)


Now, most importantly I have reached some conclusions about what to do with this mega breakthrough and the input of many members here is taken onboard.


Let me first say that I do want something for 12 years of work but only enough to live my remaining life with enough to enjoy myself and enough to help my kids out.


The idea of crowd funding is appealing but has some limitations, namely that it requires things to happen without proof and within a time frame.


My idea that I would like you to consider is for me to provide on my website the proof and to get 100s of others to be satisfied that everything is 100% as I say. No fudged data or secrecy, a test showing quenco extracting heat from one cube of water such that it freezes and at the same time power from the quenco going to a heater in another cube of water where that water starts boiling. This witnessed by the top professors from the top universities and with them taking away their own piece of quenco to do whatever tests they want.


Having thus hopefully set the World press on fire I want to leave it to the thousands of engineers, amateurs, hobbyists, entrepreneurs and such to take the patent details I will publish and to make quenco for cars, boats, planes, ipods and so on.


I propose to put on my quentron website a page (and a donate button) such that once a nominal figure is reached the patent rights automatically are granted to every person on the Planet. Thus I am out of the equation and I can go on holiday whilst mega industries are created employing all the unemployed engineers, designers, machinists, car workers and such who have lost their jobs in this economic disaster.


To me the World needs a new vibrant age of invention and innovation and quenco is the fuse that starts that, I personally would only slow that down so I should get out of the way and leave myself to doing a book or a movie about how a Yorkshireman came to invent the quenco.


What do you all reckon. Please leave a comment on my website so i can add them to a page or 2.


Please, if you think what I am saying makes sense tell others and ask them to comment too.


As to the amount it would be fair for me to ask for (remember I will not have the donate page until such time as it is universally accepted that quenco works), you tell me through my contact page and I will tally the results an post them. Ask yourself how much you would want if you had given more than 12 years of your life 60hrs per week unpaid by anyone on such a World changing project.


Thanks for all the supporting comments I have received, and as to some of the nasty ones and posts on other sites may I ask what you ever did to help others? and as to the few threats made I really do not care and I note you did not have the guts to use your real names or emails.


Anyhow, will talk again soon.


Phil


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 18, 2012, 04:55:10 PM
Always exciting to hear from you. In my opinion your execution plan sounds reasonable, going viral is your first and only priority. A couple of points/suggestions:

1) The donation money will be the trickiest to do right. You need a good story behind that or people will get suspicious or even worse label you a con man. And it shouldn't be called "donation money". More like "funding to free the IPO and make it a free to produce technology eliminating exclusivity and special interest control" as a favor to the world. So have an obvious meter on your website to reach this goal. Imo a 1-10 million$ goal should be reasonable to drop all license fees.

PS: I know you're very smart, and also smart to know that a technology like this can disrupt the flow of our entire civilization, things as monetary interest are a bit ludicrous if we're talking about free energy. We would shift to a resource based economy, flying around with 3d printed jetpacks, and crossing oceans like it's our backyard rather than expand on the old. But that's just between people who slightly understand the true impact of FE like us, as there's noone that can fully comprehend the change this would bring. This though shouldn't be mentioned when you go viral, in fact never mention how it will be the doom of oil or w/e. Just show what it can do and how it works and let it spread. So your kids will live in a bright future with or without the money you'll make, if that even has any value at that point.

2) Make a professional video that is meant to go viral. This short video should explain 3 things, what this technology is capable of doing, how it works and you dropping license fees after the a certain monetary goal. There's plenty of animation studios that can do this. The style should be again simple and straightforward, it's not a technical video, but a video posted on the main page so people instantly know what it's about. People are lazy and don't like reading so this video is pretty much the intro and the main reason why people should fund the goal.
Here are a few examples of sites that went viral recently:

https://drive.google.com/start#home (https://drive.google.com/start#home)
http://www.kony2012.com/ (http://www.kony2012.com/)

3) Entrust your website to a professional web company (the design can also can be improved) that can handle the loads that will be present when going viral. On the web design/layout part simplicity is key. Keep the site minimalistic, straightforward and modern. Make it follow current popular trends, "single page website" or "responsive layouts". A couple of examples:

http://www.googleventures.com/ (http://www.googleventures.com/)
http://www.thefontain.com/
http://designingmonsters.com/ (http://designingmonsters.com/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo)

4) Make sure the universities are ready with their reports when the site goes live. So you can include them or graphs from the reports.

5) Stick to the tech blog plan, even if you need to send a passive ice making cube to them! The point is going viral and sparking that wild fire.

6) In a way think about this not being about the technology at all but about a successful viral campaign. Including front page youtube of the above animation video.

7) Once this is all done you can go live and you and us can start spreading the word online and try to get as much news coverage.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mscoffman on May 18, 2012, 08:11:53 PM
@Philip
 
My tendancy is that you should consider the changes your device will
bring to be a "wave" and you need to be able to surf this wave to
your ultimate success goals. This will require having the best and
brightest people in your organization to continue it on into the future.
 
Don't worry about the changes it will bring to society, as we humans
ultimately have and will continue to *greatly* benefit from these type
changes. The costs of some things *must* drop in order to create a
profitable situation and to enable further change.
 
In the free enterprise the monetary system is a data processing system
designed to follow human desire and activities to go where they lead and
to create the optimum in safety and flexibility. The monetrary system, or
cash, should never be left to or expected to lead us humans to what it or
somone else says we want! So create what you desire, make sure it is
safe for the masses and expect the monetary/businesses system track
that. Any different is simply being delusional.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on May 19, 2012, 12:34:14 AM


@Stefan, the quencos being made for hearing aids are just 1mm x 1mm x 50um thick, so they look like a bit of glitter.


Phil

Hi Phil,
wow such a small scale device can power a hearing aid device ?

1mm x 1mm x 50um thick delivers 1.2 Volts and how many MilliAmps ?

If that can deliver at least 100 MilliAmps that would be great !

Seems you really have found some great material mixes to do this...

It seems to be like a real Maxwell´s daemon circuit, by just ordering the fast
electrons to just one side of the material and just getting a voltage differential.

Looking forward to your release date.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 19, 2012, 06:02:38 AM
Hi the broli Idea is very good.


The first thing is have the goal clear, "Get to equilibrium with nature", that is: dont use energy fuels that contaminate.

Forget donations, this is "funding new source of energy", "Funding Energy freedom", make several goals, example:
If 1 millon dollars, then we star the production of device model 0.
If 5 millon dollars, then patent 5$ per device
If 10 millon dollars, then patent 1$ per device.
If 50 millon dollars, free patent to all the world.


Is very important to make several prizes related with the funding amount, example:
If 10 dollars or more, then my name in "web page of fame"
If 100 dollars or more, then postal card with my name "I funding the new energy source certification"
If 300 dollars or more, receive test device model 0 and book about the invention.
IF 500 dollars or more, then right to test a sample device modelo 0.
If 1.000 dollars or more, then right to fly to Phillip test facility and take photos with phillip.
If 10.000 dollars or more, then lunch with Phillip.


Be ready to have a full forum, and a very loaded web page.


Dont say anything about the ultimate changes of this technology, we dont know it, just say the happy future, energy for all, creations of employment, small devices, more wireless devices, etc.


God will help you, Phillip.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 19, 2012, 07:53:13 PM
Sounds like broli has a fairly good set of ideas (for a change ....   just teasing you broli)  and my guess is the biggest resistance initially to this technology will come from the big battery companies.  Duracell is part of Procter and Gamble.  Eveready will be another that could suffer catastrophic loss once this really gets going.  Like most tech I will guess this may start small in replacing standard batteries in flashlights (this market is much larger than you might think - Candlepowerforums has over 139,000 members) and RC hobby cars, planes etc will likely jump all over having a super long lasting battery.  Then as it is proven it will expand to larger things like cars or home power.   One scenario I can imagine is having the two major battery makers in the U.S. (Duracell and Eveready) get in a bidding war for rights to produce this.  I really have no idea if that could happen but if it did it would seem it could be very lucrative for you.  I think the fact that both these companies make rechargeable batteries (hundreds of times more economical in the long run) and yet that has not killed their throw away battery market says some things will be slow to change but I can imagine them both wanting to have rights to the technology. 
   
   Blessings for all the right forces to be in place for this to move forward successfully.
   WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD IT WILL BE ....
   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 20, 2012, 02:16:33 PM
Hi to all the people who have recently posted advice and ideas, all very much appreciated.


I do not want to disregard the ideas of crowd funding, of competitive bidding wars and so much more you guys have suggested, all of which seem to me to have merit, but reflecting on such comments it came to me that the answer might be simpler and fairer.


SO here is a new idea of mine, if it is dumb please tell me as brutally as you care to (but include your reasoning)


How would it be if I published the patent and the vids and the lab reports, expert reports and anything else, plus give to engadget and gizmo a usb quenco so that everyone can see that 1mm x 1mm piece of Quenco can power an iPhone?


Then I publish a legal document drawn up by experts that essentially says any and everyone on the planet is welcome to use the tech for their own use free of charge, if however you want to use it in a product you must pay a royalty fee equal to 1% of the sale value of the product.


The 1% royalties would be paid into the quenco foundation (to be founded), a not for profit company registered in the USA whose obligations would be to create applications and designs, blueprint, CADs for free distribution to the World.


The foundation would pay me 1% of the 1% royalty fees paid into the foundation.


The foundation would be run by members selected from many countries and who would be suitably qualified (or experienced) in engineering, physics, agriculture and the humanities and other important disciplines. The organisation would be prohibited from owning or controlling any company or stock. Its sole purpose would be to create technology that is for the benefit of mankind (no weapons).




My reasoning for the above is that to make quenco quickly adopted for co2 abatement and food production and.............. is beyond my skills, and probably beyond anyone one person, however the free enterprise model sort of works, but it needs some new dynamic, maybe that change is for future science and technology to be free for all to adopt and profit from, to take as much research away from big business and secret labs as possible.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 20, 2012, 05:42:58 PM
Dear friend Phillip.
Your idea is fine, but I feel some innocence from you.
 
 1 - this world's problems are not solved by revolutions, even with energetic revolutions.Since the problem is not society but the selfishness of man, the momentum we have for exploiting others for our own benefit. For more changes you make to society, they willonly make-up, the real problem. May end in something worse, as the failure of theSoviet Union, or the current failures of Cuba or North Korea, and on the other hand, the failures of capitalism in the U.S. or of socialism in Europe (see Greece), the road tohell is paved with good intentions. If you make an energy revolution that will be quicklyused as a means of exploitation of man by man, and that real change is done through education to be a "social man".
 
 2 - If you want to help solve society's problems, then you can sponsor innovative educational programs, such as http://ariresearch.org/ (http://ariresearch.org/), which, they can change society by changing the human being.
 
 3 - A foundation should not be to control anything, none the development of this technology, but it can be an incubator for researchers crowdsourcing, that's a very good idea of ​​yours.
 
 4 - If not let us use the crowdsoursing, removing us the opportunity for many to work in this product, and as you'll see on sites like these, there are many people who want todo something.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 20, 2012, 06:08:20 PM
Filip, I believe any plan that promotes openness, lack of greed and is different from the status quo is a good one. So yes that's a good plan too, expect for one caveat*. But it's important to have a fixed plan before you proceed because as I mentioned earlier you'll get an INSANE amount of attention. And if I were you I'd try to pull that attention away from me as much as possible and focus it solely on the technology as it can be a big mental burden. So be sure you are prepared, physically and mentally, in fact there should be no reason for you to go out of your neighborhood besides having to sign a manufacturing deal or something. And don't ever something, especially money, convince you of something you didn't plan to do, stick to the plan no matter what comes your way!

You have the huge advantage of your device being uber simple, very small, and I assume very cheap to produce. This is especially important in the beginning, where you can kill any skepticism or smear campaign almost immediately by shipping prototypes in letters to any arm chair scientist who thinks this is bogus. But! Don't ever go jumping through hoops to prove it, just send it out and let them disprove it themselves. That is if the PR stunt to the gadget websites wasn't already proof enough. In the end your goal is the common man, and not pleasing every scientist on the face of this earth.

Elisha, not to get too philosophical, it's true that many of the worlds "problems" are artificial, this you can see in many areas for example by how much money is invested in brain killing entertainment as opposed to things that truly matter. I agree that technology alone won't solve the problems, but they can be an important catalyst to many changes even behavioral changes.
Sick, corrupt, greedy people will always exists in fact if it was up to them even a technology like this should be heavily controlled and taxed, for some twisted unfounded climate change reason. It's our task to never let these corrupt 1% take over the 99% (and no I'm not a "occupy" fan :p). Anyway much more can be said on that subject but this isn't the time and place.

In the end it is very hard to imagine what this will bring forth to the world but of course we all hope it will bring more good than bad.

I'm looking forward to reading that "An iPhone that doesn't need recharging?!" headline on Engadget the coming months.

*How can someone build this tech for personal use free of charge, if they don't have a million dollar nanolab so to speak? Or can you do without?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 20, 2012, 09:08:22 PM
I'm not sure how to put this out there but it may help to think about the Chinese part of the equation.  I've seen over and over again in the last decade just how quickly and cheaply manufacturers in China will grab an idea and start pumping out devices so much faster than any other place and their quality has gone up so much in the last 10 years or so that they can equal or even better their counterparts in the U.S. and elsewhere.  I'm not sure exactly how this may all fit into this situation but I think it may be worth putting some thought into it.  They seem to be able to clone things faster and better than any one.  And they don't often hesitate to copy things that are well protected with patents, copyrights and so on.   Is there a way to take advantage of this?  Just some food for thought...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 20, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
Friends, it is very important to have a clear goal. Because this affects the decisions we make. It may sound philosophy, but it is historical realism as the basis for the decisions we make.
 
 Phillip needs a clear goal, with clear bases to take the right decisions.
 
 Technology is only a means to achieve the proposed goal, and can change behavior but not its essence, changing the essence you do it through proper education.
 
 From "http://ariresearch.org/books (http://ariresearch.org/books)"
 Why mutual guarantee is the key to our recovery from the Global Crisis
 Why does 1% of the World Population own 40% of the wealth? Why are education systems the world THROUGHOUT Producing unhappy, poorly educated children? Why is there hunger? Why are food prices rising there is more than when to enough food for everyone? Why are there still country clubs WHERE Human dignity and social justice are nonexistent? And when to and how will be made right These wrongs?
 In 2011, touched the hearts These questions Hundreds of millions of the world over. The cry for social justice to demand've Become Which all can unite around. We all long for a society Where We can feel safe, trust our neighbors, and guarantee the future of our children. In Such a society, all will care for all, and mutual guarantee-where all are guarantors of Each Other's well-being-will thrive.
 Interdependence and "globalization" mean what happens in one That part of the world Affects every other part of it. As a result, a comprehensive solution to the crisis in the whole world Must include, for if only one part of it is Healed, other, still ailing parts, will make it ill again.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 21, 2012, 01:22:03 AM
Hi,


I have read about 3 times what has been posted, lots of good points but I am perhaps more confused. Not surprisingly there are many valid views.


Let me say a few things about myself (please forgive the number of lines starting with I).


I feel that mankind is as much as ever ripping itself apart, that the some of the mega rich are so mentally sick as to be no better than the worst tyrants of history. I cannot fathom why people would want to own more than they could ever need. EGO EGO EGO I suppose.


With the greatest of respect to the people of China I feel that the HQ for new technology should rest with democracy and perhaps a body like the UN.


I honestly would give away this breakthrough if it meant that it would do maximum good, but I feel that I must protect the IP until such time as I can be sure of the way forward.


I do have a fear of what will happen but then I say that what will be will be, this is a one way trip as soon as I post just one diagram, and if I seem to be a bit cagey about details it is that I have probably already given away enough information for some to have a good guess what quenco is, so until next month and making a choice of what to do I will continue to be guarded.


I talked to my kids and asked them if they were comfortable with the whole thing as I suggested (not that I know a thing for sure) it might impact on their lives in negatives ways, they unanimously said go for it. I still however have some fear about what the unknowns might be for them.


I believe that quenco could be manufactured eventually by anyone who can put together 10k of 2nd hand lab equipment, I myself bought my near new high vacuum BOC Edwards Turbomolecular and Scroll pump system for 5k (it originally sold for about 40k). The present need for fancy labs is just because of expertise that I admit I do not have in ALD, but I see no reason why all the technical steps couldn't be put in a 10 page booklet.


Some comments made about revolution concern me, because my biggest fear is that of unintended consequences. Also that some people will lose their jobs (oil, coal and such) and that those people or related organisations will see me as their enemy. That it might cause other social problems during a period of flux. However part of my discussions with my kids was along those lines but we all agreed that the needs outweigh the risks. Quenco can do what clearly governments in the midst of this economic crisis cannot, stimulate, employ and reduce co2.


I am not in this for the money and if I did not get anything out of this I would probably only be slightly miffed, I do feel that it would be fair to be paid but it is far more important to be helping the majority of people before my life is over. I do not believe in God though I have an open mind because the Universe forever shows it is stranger than we think and thus a gestalt super consciousness might well make sense (if all the neuron firings via the synapses of our brain give us our awareness then perhaps all the universe communicating as it does, man to man, creature to creature, physical events to sentient beings, might create a cosmic awareness) but I am not of the view that there is an after life. This is it, make the best of it, is my view.


I am not of such an opinion of myself that I would think I know the answers or that I am wise, I say that the only reason I have ended up with this is that I am stubborn and have a good record of going against the flow and coming up with the right answer, when I was at high school I stated in the science class that the textbook was wrong, everyone laughed at me but the teacher considered my point and he declared that the textbook was wrong, and in fact was later changed (or so I was told). This is not to say that I am clever but I see things nerdy differently, and sometimes I am just plain lucky with my guesses / intuition. However what I gain in my questioning of all things I lose in my lack of ability to understand people. What I need is people that know how people think to guide me. Which is why I am asking for advice.
 

I do not necessarily believe in MIB but I have placed important documents very widely in the event that something did happen to me (not necessarily from an intended source) and feel that nothing can stop quenco becoming fully disclosed at the right time.


Enough about me and my views.


One thought I had last night was that perhaps I am making this more complex than it needs to be. It was because of a comment made here about the Chines that made me think that the one thing I could manage is to set up a factory that just makes quenco foil and sell that at cost + 10% to anyone that wants it, they can then put it into power sources that they design (the quenco is just a component, it needs to be attached to a heat exchanger otherwise a 1mm x 1mm piece of quenco alone would frost up and so create little power). The need to make quenco cheap could be solved by having at least one plant per country / region that is like a newspaper press, an atomic layer deposition.


Initial production would be 100x100mm wafers patterned to small pieces (say 1mm x 1mm or 1cm x 1cm) but then to continuous film that can be slit and chopped to required size. As I said on my website the power from quenco is more about the heat exchanger so if we can get hold of materials that are better than diamond (graphene for example) at heat conduction then the amount of quenco to make a 100kW power source becomes smaller, my current designs suggest that CVD diamond heat spreaders could reduce the quenco to less than 10cm diameter disc, down from 15cm when using copper, Mark Dansie has suggested that there exists some materials available better than diamond and has told me he can supply me a sample in June.


So I think I am waffling, what I will say is that I will continue to take onboard all your views and ideas and will make and post some plan in due course.


Thanks.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 21, 2012, 08:13:32 AM
Philip,  Having read your last post I think you are an even wiser man than you give yourself credit for.   I think you will do fine with all this.  I read a message somewhere that was a fairly well thought out (or at least it seemed very plausible) scenario for what will happen when a real free energy device or device that will change the energy landscape comes into real use.  I wish I could find that message but I can't even think how to search for it now.  Either way in thinking about that message it seemed reasonable but introduce a million people or 7 billion and I don't know if there is any way to really know what will happen.  Having followed the stock market for a couple years and seeing how schizophrenic all that is (the words of Warren Buffet even) it's really hard to say how business, people in general and the whole economic system might respond to a new energy source.   In my opinion you are a true HERO for making the plan to go forward with this.  Done right there is no reason to think you will be in danger.  Not to downplay what you have but it's my feeling this might trickle into the energy world a with a bit less fanfare than you might think.  I could be wrong as I haven't even seen the details yet but for changes in high tech devices it could move in fairly fast but other mainstream larger energy applications I think it might be slow in making any big waves on the energy scene.   And my favorite new closing line for very promising threads:   
         
             What a Wonderful World It Will Be
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 21, 2012, 09:28:41 AM
No one can really predict the future and trying to predict every possible outcome will make you go mad. Just stick to one plan and see it through, that's all. Of course things will go wrong and things you didn't expect will happen, but that's life whether you are trying to release FE tech or trying to win the heart of a woman/man.

I've really come to hate the word "jobs". If you'd ask anyone whether they'd keep doing their "job" if they wouldn't get paid but had their basic physiological needs met (food, water, shelter, energy) I can assure you the overwhelming majority would answer with a resounding NO. It's really not about the pay but about what you ENJOY doing, and having the freedom to switch whenever you want doing whatever you want. So seeing people here say "it will destroy/create jobs" is comical in a sense. "Jobs" turn good people into good sheep.

In a resource based economy there is no money. There are no investors. Nothing is capital-intensive. There is no capital. There is no system of payments and repayments. There is no interest, aside from people’s interest in doing what needs to be done. There is no buying and selling. There is no ownership. There are no shortages. There are no crises. There's only abundance and the unleashed infinite potential of human creativity and ingenuity.
Of course our current system is still far from that as EVERYTHING is based on capital which consequently leads to a "few owning the majority" paradigm. Which also allows things like selfishness, greed and corruption to THRIVE as we can see today.
However the "big" change will come. Just look at any empire in history that once was, no matter how big they were they all fell. It will be a long, and painful for some, change but we will get there. It surely won't happen overnight as many tend to believe.

I also have to say I really like you because you're one of the few "inventors" who is open to discussion and alternate views. It's very rare to have intelligent discussions like these with someone who has "something" and wants to bring it out. Usually it ends up in a greed and paranoid infested discussion that helps no one.

But at the end of the day you just have to let go of all the unknowns and fears and go for it. Like Richard Branson would say, "Screw it, let's do it".
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 21, 2012, 09:39:10 AM
I have not thoroughly verified this but it looks very much in line with info I do have.  This just shows the level of suppression in the patent office and only highlights the hazards of using the U.S. Patent process for any energy device.  Well worth the read of this former Department of Energy employee.   Sorry to bring it up here but it may be relevant to some decision making.  I just saw broli's last post and agree that you are an especially open and intelligent inventor and THAT is what I think will make your chance of real success much better than most.  I'll just add that having a plan is good but stay agile and fast to change the plan a bit if needed.    Post below is the scary suppression stuff of our government being ruled by mega-corporations.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66460-green-plasma-battery-former-doe-employee-admits-cover-up-in-progress/
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 22, 2012, 07:18:24 AM
Hi Guys,


Thanks for more food for thought.


Thanks for the vote of confidence in my wisdom too, though only time will tell on that one.


I read all the comments with great interest and find that this website is populated primarily by people with good hearts and intentions, most here have hope for a better future, and most are tolerant of those with the exotic beliefs about gravity and magnetic motors. I guess it is for that reason that I can talk here about the even more exotic device that violates the 2nd without having know all do nothings attack.


What I have seen is that there is a common thread of looking for a solution under any and every stone, because the other option is to do nothing and see the poor become poorer, the planet become more damaged, and our future generations inherit a World worse than when we enjoyed it.


It is my duty to find the best solution that I can also live with personally, by that I mean the maximum social utility and the least hard work for me.


I have had considered all the good ideas and values expressed here (and and odd ponder about if patents might be suppressed - for good or bad reasons)


So my mind seems to be favoring the idea that I obtain patents under the PCT and enforce them as and when it becomes needed to stop the crooks making counterfeit quenco film, Then to issue a licence (a simple statement) for ALL people and organisations to free to use quenco in their products, provided that it is the genuine Quenco film bought from your local Quenco distributor.

My view is that I will push the price of quenco film manufacturing as low as it will go with a tiny profit margin to fund research, this price will always be lower than anyone else could make it for (ie counterfeiters could not make it cheaper so why would they bother).

The first challenge will be in 2013 to produce 1mm x 1mm 5v 10W Quenco for $10 and 1cm x 1cm 24v 1kW Quenco for $100, initially via quentron.com

Hopefully by 2014 I can scale so that the price could fall to half that, and then so on........

If I can then find ways to reduce these prices 10 fold then I will, ultimately it would be simply mind blowing if I can get the larger 1cm x 1cm tiles out the door for just $1.

I currently believe that most applications will need just one of these sizes, larger sizes (power apps) can simply be accommodated by multiple tiles.

There may be some need for higher and lower voltages.



Anyhow this is not my final position as yet, just airing my thoughts for feedback.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 22, 2012, 07:39:02 AM
I forgot to add, the availability of cheap as chips quenco will allow all the frustrated inventors here and everywhere (and clean energy advocates) to get serious and build power source units and create new apps / inventions.


BTW, one other thought was to add 10% to the sale price of all quenco so as to provide free quenco to the 3rd World economies.


Ooops, and the Quenco patent, and the profit stream, becomes vested (the property of) the not for profit foundation I talked of previously that develops open source technology.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 22, 2012, 07:54:28 AM
By doing all these things I relieve myself of the promotional aspect, I just make quenco film, you make USB power sources to sell, you get engadget and such to feature your product, you start a hearing aid battery business, you design electric car power packs.................


See I have a lazy solution that gets things moving faster, do you agree?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 22, 2012, 12:28:52 PM
Hello Mr. Hardcastle,
do you know about this invention  www.powerchips.gi (http://www.powerchips.gi)  ?
About cool chips and so on ?
Their intentions has been to produce the KWp chips for 20$ !
But this is a time-long story !

I hope for you that your wishes and ideas will not have  the same results and that you will learn from the Borealis company the difference between success and fiasko !

Sincerely
                 CdL

p.s.:  also the Joseph C. Yater story ( more than 30 years R&D )let me say to you : "Be carefull ! "
p.s.II : you have not to be concerned about the consequences like unemployment of others !

           cheap energy will change the global economy rules !
           Desert can become "paradise" ! Like Phoenix/Arizona (= zona arida )
           Cheap energy for desalinisation, for the agricultury ! www.canlaser.com (http://www.canlaser.com)  : the green desert invention

           And see here another "unemployment risk", inventor Bherokh Khosnevis UCLA :
           http://craft.usc.edu/CC/modern.html (http://www.contour-crafting.com)   3D house printer : 186sqm in 24 hours productivity
           More than 1 Mio. ,only for the U.S. , construction worker will loose their jobs !
           This is the contour-crafting.org-estimation !
           But construction will become also safer,cheaper and the consumer would change from fossil energy
           combustion heating to electric ambient  heating with positive health effect !
            Much more electric bi-/tri-cycle user in the cities !
           Cheaper hybrid-kits for cars and.... and..... and.... !
           You see : Each actio has ever a reactio,ever and everywhere !
           What you can do is to accelerate the global living style conversion movement !
                       
           And making the poor men a little richer,the rich men a little poorer !
           
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 22, 2012, 02:10:45 PM
Yes I am fully aware of powerchips and have in fact had a few conversations and emails with them.


Quenco is completely different from the cool chip.




Hi All,


I have stripped down the website and will not be promoting quenco until I have all the proof.


Quenco is the real thing but there is only so much I can say without proof before people will start accusing me of a scam.


The only proof needed to start this revolution is the handout of a dozen 1mm x 1mm chips.


If the admin / owner of this site (Harti I assume) wishes to contact me I will arrange to send a free quenco chip to you.


Thanks for now

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 22, 2012, 02:32:45 PM
Yes I am fully aware of powerchips and have in fact had a few conversations and emails with them.


Quenco is completely different from the cool chip.




Hi All,


I have stripped down the website and will not be promoting quenco until I have all the proof.


Quenco is the real thing but there is only so much I can say without proof before people will start accusing me of a scam.


The only proof needed to start this revolution is the handout of a dozen 1mm x 1mm chips.


If the admin / owner of this site (Harti I assume) wishes to contact me I will arrange to send a free quenco chip to you.


Thanks for now

I wouldn't mind if you sent me a sample to help out :p. I could even go to some big universities here in Belgium for real lab tests.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 22, 2012, 04:14:32 PM
Mr. Hardcastle,

I did not compare the quenco with the power/cool chips !
I adviced you to pay attention for a company which for the first time presented their thermionic converter invention 1997 !!!                                           This are 15 years back !!!

And I named another inventor who get in the seventhies of the last century his thermionic inverter tested by the DOE and functionally aproved . But no more help !

Sincerely
                CdL

p.s.: Later when your prototype will be technical aproved,

        a.  you can also funding your invention by selling 0,%-fee/royalty-rights without to sell patent-right-ownership !

        b. many people can also invest in "options/ natural participation certificate" with the comercial right to buy the
             quenco with fixed %-discount ! ( like time-share )
         
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 22, 2012, 05:27:24 PM
Dear friend Philip.
My parents raised me to be an analyst of what happens in nature, to build on repeatable events, realities.
During my school life, I also realized that what the books say is not written in stone, they have errors. Which cost me more than one occasion to go bad marks against the established and what the teachers say. Although some teachers had an open mind, most were very close in the method that they had prescribed.


In my country Venezuela, a third world country, I lived among people with a lot of money (millions of dollars) and people with very little (1 dollar a day), see the wealth of some and the misery of others, made me think of way to reduce this gap, I made the observation that the rich have access to a lot of energy and the poor have little access to energy, so it occurred to me that to help the poor should look for a very cheap energy source.


Since then find ways to make more efficient energy sources and make available new sources of energy. So I loved the ideas of Phillip Hardcastle, as their thermionic devices would be the ultimate solution.


Also try to help the poor in more direct ways, giving them food, shelter, etc.. Of which had a series of bitter experiences, being a victim of theft, fraud and even blows. Hard-learned an old adage, "do not give the fish, teach to fish". The only real way to help people is through teaching them to think, as going on in Haiti or Somalia, if you give them what they need will get only more misery.


So I get to the institute ARI http://ariresearch.org/ (http://ariresearch.org/), which is already running educational institutes, which teach people to thinking and feeling, which is a total systemic change, not a mere improvement of the current system, change at the root.  When i meet to their students, I realized that actually this is the real solution to all problems of the world, here the individual learns to be like the human body cells, which work for the benefit of all the body, benefiting to themselves. While today's society teaches how to take advantage the most of the others for your own benefit, to be a super selfish, egoistic.

Friend Phillip, Quenco is a body and Ari Institute is the soul, and a pure body needs a pure soul.


So after some thought, the following is proposed, using the ideas of Broli and Philip.

Premises:
- Quenco is cheap to produce, $ 10 and $ 100 10W 1kW (that's cheap, very cheap).
- Quenco requires little investment, $ 500,000 per factory.
- Phiilip has patents.
- There are Quenco devices of 1mmx1mm and Quenco 1cmx1cm actually running.
 
Proposal:
- A Global Foundation with global presence to make Quenco and use the proceeds to fund the educational system change worldwide, free and quality education for all mankind, Philip receives only 0.1% of the overall profit on this foundation.
- Let people and enterprises do the devices, USB Charger, hearing battery, etc.
- The foundation produces and sells Quenco at Cost + 20%.
- Building a factory in every region of the world, 1 - USA East, 2 - USA West, 3 - Western Europe, 4 - Eastern Europe, 5 - China, 6 - Japan, 7 - Australia, 8 - Israel, 9 - South Africa, 10 - Venezuela, 11 - Mexico. 12 - Central, 13 - Brazil, etc.. Reaching 20 Quenco factories worldwide.


- Crowdsoursing, the 10 million dollars for the 20 factories.
With the following awards for participation:
If 10 dollars or more, Then my name in "web page of fame"
If 100 dollars or more, Then Postal certificate with my name "I Funding the new energy device Quenco" and participation in R & D forum of Quenco.
If 300 dollars or more, Receive Quenco model 5V 10W 1mm x 1mm.
If 1,000 dollars or more, Receive Quenco model 24V 1KW 1cm x 1cm.
If 20,000 dollars or more, Then right to know and lunch with Phillip.
 
You will need:
- A group of people who will help implement this plan.
- Make a professional video That Is Meant to go viral. This short video Should Explain 3 things, What This technology is capable of doing, how it works, let people dream, put this video in youtube and front page.
- Entrust your website to a professional web company (the design can be improved Also can) That can handle the loads will be present That when to going viral.
- Get ready to send this fame from you to your soul, change the system of education at all the world, make the people happy.
 
Piracy protections:
- Will sell at low cost, so the competition will have to think before imitate.
- Your noble purpose, money to change the educational system, will give you the support of the world population.
- Crowdsourcing to help you defend it.
- International law will support you, because you have the patents.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 22, 2012, 07:38:21 PM
You cannot decide who get's rich and who stay's poor.
It is in the decision making of the people themselves.
Your plan will fail.


Yes, that's right.


The solution is teach the people to think.  That is the real goal of this plan, the soul of this energy device.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 22, 2012, 07:41:15 PM
@microcontroller:
how many companies -with technical and financial success- can you recognize in the peswiki-page ?
This is real economy, a 500 german midle/great companies R&D study ( Kienbaum, Manager Magazin) from the eightees :

                                from           1176 ideas
                                became       376  board-projects
    entered the market                176  products
became a financial success       11 products = ideas

Real success is very rare.

Sincerely
                 CdL
                                 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 22, 2012, 08:13:23 PM
Part of success always depends on how good the idea is and how universally applicable it is.  I think Quenco is a great idea that can be applied in so many different things that it will be highly successful if Philip can navigate the path to getting it out to the world.   I think he is well on his way.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 22, 2012, 08:46:57 PM
To butt in... imo the biggest advantage of quenco over say the coming LENR/cold fusion wave or other promising emerging tech is:
simplicity, size (huge power density apparently) and cost (you can apperently print them out like stamps) these factors allow quentron to pretty much saturate the world with them from cell phones to personal planes. The thing is so small that a "grid" or "central source" of energy would be obsolete even if the central was in your own basement. Every device would have one built in, the potential is limitless.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mscoffman on May 22, 2012, 09:36:44 PM

Yes, that's right.


The solution is teach the people to think.  That is the real goal of this plan, the soul of this energy device.

Yes...and by the way, to think with their brains and not with their portfolios. :-)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mscoffman on May 22, 2012, 09:53:25 PM
To but in... imo the biggest advantage of quenco over say the coming LENR/cold fusion wave or other promising emerging tech is:
simplicity, size (huge power density apparently) and cost (you can apperently print them out like stamps) these factors allow quenco to pretty much saturate the world with them from cell phones to personal planes. The thing is so small that a "grid" or "central source" of energy would be obsolete even if the central was in your own basement. Every device would have one built in the potential is limitless.

Hold on a minute Broli... you've gone a little bit too far.
 
A Maxwell's Demon is a good source of energy, but only if you've got lots of
"heat to spare". Here is the problem; If your device "destroys heat" to make
energy, you need to make sure that you didn't pay exorbitant costs to make
that heat in the first place. Now any energetic process like a living being
will be producing a certain amount of excess energy - but that amount is not
so large. Also, devices like computers can use that capability because they created
heat in the first place to do computations and you are reusing a certain amount.
Good.
 
But you can see where there is a problem. In a cold climate like Alsaka there may
not be enough excess heat in the first place. In a cold basement, or cold closet
or cold garage where you have to actually pay to produce that heat in the first place
with a furnace or on the roadway with a large numbers of moving vehicles all
trying to access ambient temperature air. In fact, a Maxwell's Demon will actually
differentially benefit people living in warm climates, manufacturing will best be done
on the equator! While we living in cold climates are going to just need to make do. Heat pumps can help, making solar collectors out of ordinary stuff, but to really work Maxwell's demons will need to be paired with specific size energy producers or consumers. So in fact
I would expect Philip's devices to work best when joined to LENR heat producer rather
then substituted for it. That way one has real energy. This Maxwell demon stuff has
unintented consequences such as needing a person to have to decide whether energy generated is going to be transmitted away or is locally converted to heat. We currently
don't have to consider these facts when we use energy. The Utility company always
transmits its billable energy away from it. We can decide to do computations or power an
amature radio transmitter with it without any use penlty. That why I now favor led lights
for dummy loads for overunity experiments as they transmit their energy away from the
device under test rather then dissipate it as heat locally.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 22, 2012, 11:01:43 PM
mscoffman, this is actually a good subject for a fear mongering smear campaign, not that I'm associating you with one but this discussion will indeed be brought up by people who have an interest in it not succeeding.

My point of view of it? First of all, it's COMPLETELY baseless. Let us be ignorant and assume that yes ambient heat is "destroyed" but do you know how much energy the earth and the atmosphere collect on one single day? I'm sure if you did you wouldn't be so concerned. And apparently it's okay to promote solar energy like crazy, which would also "destroy" heat by that same logic, but this not?

Second of all, did you know that EVERY electric device that has resistive elements is a joule heater, ie produces heat as current goes by. Yes the average kinetic energy (ie temperature) of the nearby air molecules gets reduced but this energy is regained when your device is emitting infrared as joule heating. If I use a quenco powered heater that heats my room by removing it from the outside eventually, depending on insulation primarily, that heat will diffuse back into the atmosphere. You're not destroying anything! In the heater case you're just filtering the colder air molecules out of your room, and in the electric devices case you are remitting the energy as infrared. This is why a CPU can run on its own heat, the actual information processing itself doesn't use up energy but pushing around electrons creates heat.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 23, 2012, 08:12:13 PM
I am myself wondering about the internal process of the quenco chip/film because 10sqcmx10sqcm comparing with an usual thermionic converter with 75% heat/electric conversion efficiency and 2000W/sqm sunenergy means 67x sun concentrating !
It is not the Wp/sqcm ( comparing with the Fellows Research group Mems-TAR  www.resonant-energy.com (http://www.resonant-energy.com)  ),it is the question about the heat/energy source which will deliver the electric output energy about I am me wondering !

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 24, 2012, 02:33:10 PM
This is a difficult concept to get ones head around, because it sounds too good to be true. If it does prove to be true, and makes it to market, its impact on society is probably beyond our ability to imagine it. It will change the whole way that we think about electricity. The power grid will become obsolete in a very short time , as all domestic appliances will come with their own power supply. The same with light fittings. We have all heard the expression that half a loaf is better than no bread. Imagine the impact in African villages of cheap everlasting LED lighting, and water/irrigation pumps that need no fuel. Battery chargers will be relegated to museums.
       The electric car without charging will help tremendously, but will not solve congestion. So a better early application will be electric bicycles, more affordable, and more eco friendly.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 25, 2012, 04:39:55 PM
I can also accept the production price estimation :

solar/thermionic cell
2000Wp clear sky daylight energy max./sqm 
 5% solar foil and 10% wafer cell solar light to electricity conversion
= 100Wp-foil and 200Wp wafer cell electric;
each Wp production price  foil:0,5 US$ and wafer cell: 1,0 US$
 sqm-foil price: 100US$ and sqm-wafer cell: 200 US$

the quenco 1KW-chip/foil has the dimensions 10cmx10cm =100sqcm   = 1/100sqm       
     
= for this dimension the solar foil price is 1 US$ and solar wafer cell price is 2 US$ !           
   but Mr. Hardcastle estimate 100 US$ production  costs for the quenco foil/chip !


Sincerely
                 CdL

p.s.: with cooling the heat to elctric conversion max. of the thermionic converter can reach 10W/sqcm = 100KW/sqm
         but with external heat source
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 25, 2012, 07:34:07 PM
Dreaming About LENR and Quenco, Working together, Because They Are complementary technologies.
Where do cold or need more heat than it can remove from the atmosphere, launch a LENR and ready, we will have all the energy we need.

LENR and Quenco are so disruptive, and LENR truly need QUENCO, that we need to talk about priorities.

First, it should be very clear several realities:
- The global economic system is in sharp implosion: Due to their mathematical basis, that capital plus interest can not be paid from the capital but will need to bring money from the future , so there is a debt so huge, and only bring money for the future work if the economic activity expands ever faster, and that is not possible in an integral world.
- Unemployment will continue to grow every day more worldwide.
- Most of the jobs are not productive but administrative. productive jobs are those that are related to something that we directly consume or use, this jobs are few.
- The global production system is focused on making products that are quickly discarded, to buy another, so-called planned obsolescence.
- We are destroying the planet's resources.
- We are destroying the planet spices.
- We are leaving a broken world to future generations.

Therefore, LENR and technologies necessary to Quenco are what every thinking human beings need.

- Learning to think and dont let others make our decisions and tell us to do. Learning that the good of society is the good of the individual.
- Work only few hours a day, to maintain the general infrastructure of the city, country, etc., to keep eating, dressing, driving, etc..
- Work freely each in what everyone seems best for the benefit of humanity and nature.
 
The demand for LENR and Quenco be so great that any network worldwide factories may give you supply, so we have to give priority to certain sectors of production.

Priority 1:
- Electricity in homes, so the unemployed will have less pressure on the monthly payment of electric service and will be able from their ingenuity to develop products for their family income.
- Clean water, either by air extraction or purification of existing contaminated sources.
- Electric Bicycles in electric bicycle community would give a tremendous boost as the biggest cost is the battery.
 
Priority 2:
- The electric car, eliminating battery bank, would lower the price of electric cars $ 50,000 to $ 15,000 today.
- Elimination of electric plug in home devices, wireless computer, wireless LED bulbs, cordless vacuum cleaner, Electric cooker Induction cordless wireless stereo, washing machine wireless, wireless refrigerator, etc..
 
Priority 3:
- Cordless Phones.
- Aircraft of fuel.
 
If I was Phillip Hardcastle, I will:
1 - Half of the Quenco profits to invest in the proper education, worldwide.
2 - Buy  http://www.qmpower.com/ (http://www.qmpower.com/), which is highly efficient electric motors, the best technology of the moment.
3 - Buy http://www.teslamotors.com/ (http://www.teslamotors.com/), which has a good design.
4 - design and manufacture worldwide via Open Source, all kinds of long-life devices, from light bulbs to cars, to last materials, repairable, upgradeable and recyclable. The devices would call timeless.
 Impact on society:

- The politicians would lose their importance of today.
- The boundaries would be more free.
- The food would be cheaper.
- Devices would be more expensive but would last a lot.
- The transport would be cheaper.
- There would be more automation.
- Would have over time to be really where we like, with friends, family, etc.
- Would have more groups of music, dance, theater, exercise, field trips, agriculture, etc..
- We would have a world in harmony with nature, clean and full of life.


Recomend to read http://www.kabbalahbooks.info/The-Psychology-of-the-Integral-Society-p/psychology-of-integral-society.htm (http://www.kabbalahbooks.info/The-Psychology-of-the-Integral-Society-p/psychology-of-integral-society.htm) to understand more this new society.


Also from manufacture point of view http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cmp/eetimes052112/?cid=NL_UBM+Electronics#/46 (http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cmp/eetimes052112/?cid=NL_UBM+Electronics#/46)  there is and excellent article of Electronic Engineering Times Magazine.  Why China?

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on May 26, 2012, 01:21:04 AM


The only proof needed to start this revolution is the handout of a dozen 1mm x 1mm chips.


If the admin / owner of this site (Harti I assume) wishes to contact me I will arrange to send a free quenco chip to you.


Thanks for now

Dear Philip,

I would be really glad if you would send me such a 1 mm x 1mm sample,
my address is on the about us page here:

http://www.overunity.com/5552/impressum-about-us/ (http://www.overunity.com/5552/impressum-about-us/)

But I still can hardly imagine, how such a small device can at least deliver more than
a few milliwatts, but you claim Watts ?

Well, if you really can crank out so much current from such a tiny chip it is
also pretty dangerous to handle as a tiny shortcircuit at the edges could already start a fire !

And surely the chip would go so cold, that it will freeze and might break apart,
if it is based on ceramics or something like that,
when it gets too cold too fast, that means it is based on material that does not like to get cold too fast
or will have an unequal temperature difference along its surface...
then it might end in a structural failure and break apart.

Have you already tested your material enough about this ?

So it should be handled with care, as some loose wires touching its surface could start a fire and shatter the chip
by cooling it too fast during a shortcircuit ?


Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 26, 2012, 01:56:56 PM
@Harti. I really hope that you do get a sample of this. If you do, I hardly need to remind you of the responsibility that goes with it. You will be representing all the people who have supported this forum over the years. You have a responsibility to the inventor. Indeed you have a responsibility to all the people of Planet Earth. You must work with care , and publish a fair and unbiased test.
        I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that you are a good choice as our representative, and we have 100% faith in your Technical ability, and honesty.


 Maybe this guy should apply for the Overunity Prize?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 26, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
Maybe this guy should apply for the Overunity Prize?

No, there's no sound reason why he should.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 26, 2012, 07:38:45 PM
@Broli. Not sur I understood you last post. Are you saying that applying for the prize would not be to his advantage, or that you have doubts about this technology?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 26, 2012, 09:08:07 PM
@Broli. Not sur I understood you last post. Are you saying that applying for the prize would not be to his advantage, or that you have doubts about this technology?

It's the former. If you read the whole thread you'll know why. The prize does not fit his strategy.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 27, 2012, 01:54:39 AM
Hi All,


Quick post. Response to some issues, not necessarily in order.


Quenco current capability is a mind blowing 10,000A/cm2 but that should not be considered alone, at 10,000A/cm2 the voltage is only a few mv, at 1,000A/cms it is 100mv, at 100A/cm2 we can get a little more voltage, and so on. The open circuit voltage is limited by reverse leakage and so is about 250mv per layer.

For 5v we need to lay down many layers but as each layer is 1.2nm it still looks like an impossibly thin film. If we want to have an output of 5v at 2Amps we need only 25 layers, if we want 5v at 1000 amps we need 50 layers. At 50 layers or 25 layers the heat flux into the quenco is little different (the extra 25 layers amounts to only an extra 30nm and so with a thermal conductivity of approx 1w/cmk even 1 degree gradient becomes MW/cm2).

So as I said before getting the heat in is the problem. A 1mm x 1mm single Quenco layer at 100mV has a current output of 10A, if loaded (shorted) it would output its energy to the limit of the shorts inductance and resistance limitation and then rapidly frost. If there were 50 layers its output would be higher and so instantaneous output greater, but the temperature depression would happen faster. If we take the thermal mass of 1mm x 1mm x say 50um (end contacts being most of that) then we might calculate the the energy it could dissipate to a load as being  50,000,000 um3 which is 50/1000 mm3 or 50/1,000,000cm3, so even if it had a specific heat capacity of 1J/cm3/k we would have 15mJ, this is not likely to weld or damage anything.

Second is that if we had a 1000 layer 24V quenco of 10cm x 10cm having an output capability of MW we could short an edge quite safely as the end conatct layers are only um thick so the transverse current to a short is quite small, it is only when we couple the 10cm x 10cm to a bus bar of 10cm x 10 cm that we can fully obtain the MW power capability. Let me say it in a more stark way, if you had a 100MW piece of quenco you could hammer a nail through it without much drop of output or danger of fire. Like I have said before quenco converts heat to power at quantum scale and so just as with Esaki diodes the tunneling current is very very high, but quenco is limited by the heat flux into it, for MW output at say 1000V we could use just 1cm x 1cm of 10,000 layer (12um thick) but I defy anyone to figure out how to get that much heat to the quenco, at best using graphene we could have (by my modeling) 10kW per cm2 energy flow from ambient to quenco (depressed by -100C from ambient). Super critical CO2 might be a simple means of transferring energy in but ultimately it is easier to reduce quenco manufacture price and just use more cm2 tiles.

My guess is that we get down to $1 a cm2 tile with 200V @ 10A output (to suit electric cars) and use 50 tiles per car. Obviously if the tiles were to cost $1,000 then there would be reason to use less tiles but better heat input infrastructure.

I must say that I am totally out of my depth on the issue of getting heat in and I have not filed any patents on graphene or sc CO2 heat exchangers, many people can take ownership of these issues. I will stick with the issue of getting quenco made as cheap as possible.


So I have covered a few technical things, as to me claiming the OU prize I already have pledged a fair chunk of the prize so I would be claiming against myself, but more importantly quenco is not OU, nor would I want to take away the prize anyway, it remains as a beacon (hopefully one that grows in cash) to encourage a search for new science / invention. I am sure the prize money will come from many sources once quenco becomes mainstream and that money will be helpful to buy more roll to roll equipment.

Lastly, and this is painful, I am now 100% sure I cannot deliver the vid experiment for 1cm x 1cm tiles by 11 June, we just have had too many delays getting films deposited, I will post here as soon as I am sure of the guaranteed dates, I will post some info on quentron.com in early June as an update.


If I had to make a bet about the date I would say end of June is possible, July is certain. I am not wriggling or being evasive, and it will be "soon", but since I do not have my own nanofab (yet) I am not totally in control of production. We have however great hopes that it will be this coming week.


Bye for now.


BTW, if I make a silly mistake in my quick calcs (and I often do), or do not express myself clearly, please email me at pjhardcastle@gmail.com, but please do not expect a quick reply, and please do not expect me to give out any more technical info - that must remain restricted until launch.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 27, 2012, 04:27:38 PM
Hi Philip, and many thanks for the technical information, although some of the calculations are a bit over my head. One thing that seems obvious, is that the big problem initially is going to be getting enough heat into the thing. I get the impression that output is going to be dependent on maintaining a temperature gradient. To power an electric car, high tech methods and materials look to be pretty much essential. Hopefully for the multitude of lower power applications the market demands, a lower tech cheaper option will be more appropriate, using materials such as copper and aluminium, possibly with a forced air supply to prevent freezing.
       Whilst it is a shame that you will not be able to meet the June 11th deadline, I hope you will do your best to keep us informed of developments. Do not underestimate the publicity that you will get by sending a sample to Hartiberlin, he is well respected in these fields.
       Finally do not underestimate the demand for electric bike batteries. This is a huge market, just waiting for a development like yours. And at 2 to 300 Watts, much less demanding than car batteries.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 27, 2012, 08:35:48 PM
Just a small bump in the road.  I'm sure those following this thread will still be here as I will.  I had not thought about the e-bike connection but that would truly be a great one.  As it is probably the only thing that has kept me from getting an e-bike is the rather low range they have.   With only a slightly larger scooter style you could probably house a fair sized unit.  That brings to mind the idea of using the quentron in parallel with some standard lead acid or Li-Ion or Li-Poly batteries to possibly give more current short term as needed while having the quentron be able to constantly recharge the standard battery if it was not pulling full power at the time.  As I don't have a good grasp yet on this new technology I don't know if that would even make sense to do but just wanted to mention it as it crossed my mind in regards to the e-bike.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 27, 2012, 09:28:20 PM
Slightly off topic, but let me say a few words about Ebikes. First of all, they are out there in big numbers. China alone has 120 million, and counting. So people would buy everlasting batteries from tomorrow. Large numbers of Ecars have yet to be built. Remember that an Ebike is not an electric motorcycle, it is an electrically assisted bicycle. I own a 10 year old Ebike that runs on three 12 volt lead acid batteries , 36 volts. Maximum range on the flat without pedalling is 20 miles. With light pedal assistance the range is about 30 miles. Modern Ebikes with LiFepo4 batteries can double that range.
      Cruising on the flat, amp draw is 5 or 6 amps. During acceleration it rise to about 15 amps. So, if you had an everlasting battery that would only give 5 or 6 amps, You could make up the shortfall by pedalling during acceleration and on hills. Remember that legally an Ebike is just a bicycle. An electric motorcycle could have much higher speed, range and acceleration. But you need a special driving license, road tax , insurance, and endless other legal hassles.
       Owing to poor eyesight I no longer drive. My Ebike is my car, and meets over 90% of my needs.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 27, 2012, 10:22:03 PM
If the problem of QUENCO is the ability of the materials to heat reception, then the impact will be tremendous.
In telecommunications, the next advance, are high-altitude platform, in the form of quadrotores, blimp or airplanes, and the problem is POWER, with Quenco this issue is resolved, allowing lower the price of telecommunications to 1/10 of today, at this altitude the penetration of the signal is high and the coverage is uniform, the delay is much less than the satellite since they are at a shorter distance, and the cost of implementation is very low cost. Example http://www.gizmag.com/aerovironment-uav-communications-relay/22679/ (http://www.gizmag.com/aerovironment-uav-communications-relay/22679/)
And for air transport, star up like Synergy  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/launchsynergy/synergy-aircraft-project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/launchsynergy/synergy-aircraft-project)  QUENCO is a blessing from the sky.


Being QUENCO a technology that uses machinery of the semiconductor industry, and given the huge potential is obvious that each company in this industry will be manufacturing QUENCO, faster than once, either with permission or without permission from Phillip, and will get the information either patents or information that Phillip will make public or directly from dissection QUENCO device, There is companies that  job is dissection of semiconductor designs. Therefore, it is good that Phillip has its own global network of manufacturing, but must have a well defined busines plan so that each semiconductor manufacturer in the world can start making QUENCO and pay royalties.
I think this scheme is a royalty per unit manufactured, by Watts.
1 unit of 1 Watt -> 0.1 Dollar.
1 unit of 10 Watt -> 1 Dollar.
1 unit of 100 Watts -> 5 Dollar.
1 unit of 1000 watts -> 50 dollar.


Concerning the overunity PRIZE, QUENCO qualify, since it produces electric power without consuming nothing but heat from the environment, as well as many motors that supposedly run overunity  and they cooled environment. At the end I do not think that we can get something that will produce energy from nothing, there will always be to consume or transform something.   Think, if we put a AAA battery in a circuit next to QUENCO and you dont know what QUENCO do, and power a motor and recharge the AAA battery, this will win the overunity Prize? the answer is yes.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 28, 2012, 12:17:29 AM
@Admin, could you remove my email address from my previous post for me? I have been warned about spammers and did receive one already.


@All and Harti, I feel that claiming the OU prize would be unpopular, if however everyone wants me to claim the prize let's make it more interesting, I will double my current pledge to $10,000 (Harti could you please update my pledge) and those that want the prize to be claimed and want to support free energy can choose if they want to pledge some or double their existing pledge, all the money will go to quenco chips (not a penny for me) for members, to be distributed by Harti or a committee for use in applications (open source).


As to Copper or Aluminium units, a small blower fan on a copper finned heatsink with a 1cm2 Quenco should easily provide a kW output in a coke can sized unit (a sort of hair dryer in reverse). That would be a good idea for a few hundred million bikes (that can go up steep hills). Governments should allow free registration (no road tax) for such as it gets the masses of poorer people to work every day in China and other Asian nations. Also environmentally aware people in Europe and the USA could leave their cars at home to lower global co2 emissions.


 



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 28, 2012, 03:56:05 AM
I just went to the OverUnity Prize section to try and post a $5,000 increase to my existing $5,000 pledge, where I noticed that Stefan has previously posted that the prize is not available to people that patent their IP. That is fine by me, I need to protect the rights of many with a patent, that is my view, it may be that I do not understand how to use open source and protect IP against the greed of large corporations, but for now having a PCT patent seems the best blanket safe position to take.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: conradelektro on May 28, 2012, 12:28:46 PM
That is fine by me, I need to protect the rights of many with a patent, that is my view, it may be that I do not understand how to use open source and protect IP against the greed of large corporations, but for now having a PCT patent seems the best blanket safe position to take.

It is quite simple:

1) Patents protect the right of the patent holder to make money exclusively. In other words, the patent holder can stop others to use his contraption (for 20 years after filing date). This might not work in practice, because the patent holder can be outsmarted by filing a great number of similar patents and it would cost too much to fight all the other patents. Big money can also ignore the patent and risk a very expensive legal battle, which the patent holder can not sustain and not win due to lack of funds. In China and other third world countries nobody cares about patents and in the industrialised countries they get you by perverting the law with money.

2) The only way to fight large corporations or big money is COMPLETE DISCLOSURE of the idea so that many people can do research and can try to manufacture products based on the idea. Of course the "inventor" will probably get nothing not even fame because many people will claim it was their idea.

So, dear Mr. Hardcastle, it is all about money and who gets it. Your " best blanket safe position" is the wish or the need to get money. This is not bad, but why not say so straight away. Posing as the good guy is just silly. Please do not try to safe me or the world, we save ourselves by trying to make money ourselves and we say so straight away.

My prediction: you will loose money, no matter what you do.

If your idea is a "law of nature newly discovered by you" it can not be protected, because you can only patent specific contraptions making use of this newly discovered principle. ( A principle or "law of nature" can not be patented, many people do not understand that.) Large corporations and big money will come up with many different ways of using your discovery (besides your ways of doing it) and you can do nothing to stop that.

Dream about money and fame till you wake up. And please do not disclose your ideas here, we will take it and become stinking rich. In case you have something, disclose it to the right scientific establishments. You could also write a book about it, and you can sell it, even if it is nonsense (as many have done successfully). I know, it is difficult to be heard, but the world is a hard place.

I look forward to the date of your eventual coming out. May the Megawatts flow. Words do not create electricity.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 28, 2012, 01:54:46 PM
@Conrad,


I fully understand patents, I have not made a new discovery of nature, what I have done by design, novel application of materials, and topology is to overturn part of the much lauded, but unproven, 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (The Kelvin Interpretation). As it happens Quenco cannot be improved or simplified, it is by its nature as good as it can get, so as a patent it will no doubt go down in history as being an ultimate. It cannot be added to, it cannot be reduced so big business cannot circumvent it, therefore by my patenting it I can protect the rights of many, you accuse me of greed and ego, you really do not get me.


If you wish me harm, wish me to lose money, and wish me not to disclose anything here, then so be it.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: conradelektro on May 28, 2012, 02:12:07 PM
Ego: If one wants to talk about something which one can not disclose? (This seems to be ego.)
 
 Greed: I can protect the rights of many. (Many are greedy. I am greedy.)
 
 Hope: Quenco cannot be improved or simplified, it is by its nature as good as it can get. (Would be the first thing in the world showing these unique properties.)
 
 I have nothing against you. I just do not understand the need of some people to talk about something they do not wish to disclose. It is so very useless. What is there to be said? No intelligent person believes in something one is not allowed to know. The only area where this is appropriate is religion. And if you want or have to keep a secret, the best way to do that is to shut up.
 
 Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on May 28, 2012, 02:41:10 PM
There's no point in arguing about such trivial matters. But to be honest I shrug whenever deadlines have to be pushed back, too many bad experiences and déjà vu's pop up in my head. Deadlines are pointless if they're not respected.. even though rarely a deadline is met in any field.
My personal limit is at breaking the 3rd deadline then I jump off the bandwagon. Anyway I still wish you luck.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 28, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
We need to keep cool heads here. I can understand some of the points that Conrad is making. On the other hand this is Phillips intelectual property, and he is free to do with it whatever he wishes. Personally, I think that as a result of this he deserves to gain financial security for himself and his family. My wish is that he can keep control of this idea, and stick to his business plan to make it affordable, especially to those whose need is greatest. What I would not like to see is that this disappears, or is restricted to "National Security". Phillip, the choice is yours . I hope you choose wisely. As far as I am concerned, the more info you publish on here the better. If you patent it, then the info will be available to those who wish to copy it for their own use, if they are able.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 28, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
I would prefer the patent application process instead of the "open-source"-method !
It is also your right to receive a real compensation for your scientifical input ,without a monetary limit from my side !

And Mr. Hardcastle, it is not a shame that the first demonstration has to be scheduled !
We know sufficient about time-delay ,independant from the causes : Orbo,Perendev,Blacklightpower,.....  !
This are/has been years of adventure and trial !

Sincerely
                 CdL
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on May 28, 2012, 06:56:28 PM
conradelektro,   I really don't know if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed or just don't have a clue what quentron and Philip are all about.  If you have read this thread you would have to see your statements are completely foolish.  There is absolutely nothing that Philip has written that warrants an attack like you have made. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 29, 2012, 01:20:54 PM
Let us consider a "coke Can" sized device with a 1 cm square Quentron tile, an aluminium heat sink and a small fan. The fan would probably be a small computer fan of about two inches diameter. Does anyone know what the output of such a fan might be in terms of cubic feet or cubic metres per minute? Let us take a wild guess, and say 10 cubic feet per minute . Let us assume that the air temperature is 15 degrees Celsius. Let the output power drawn from the device be 1 Kilowatt. Perhaps someone can calculate from the above figures, what the temperature of the out going air would be.
       How would the situation change if the ambient air temperature was 5 degrees, or zero degrees? Would the heatsink ice up, or the air exit grill?
         Could we use this device as a combined refrigerator and power generator? I have been mentally comparing this device to a peltier module. A Peltier device will only act as a generator if it has a temperature difference across it. So as far as heat is concerned, it has a source and a sink. The Quentron device appears to be unique in that it uses the environment as a source, and does not have or need a sink.
      Lots of questions. Does anyone care to comment?
ADDED LATER.The actual air output from a fan of this size will probably be  between 2 and 10 Cubic feet/minute
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on May 29, 2012, 05:41:52 PM
It would be interesting to know some approximated delta temperatures and power output of a coke can sized device if someone would like to calculate the math.

Fan Specification:
Speed reference: 1800 +/- 10% RPM
Bearing Type: Sleeve Bearing
Noise Reference: 23 db
Reference air flow: 60CFM
Rated Voltage: 12V
Interface Type: 3 Pins
Length: 9.8inches
Size: 2 x 2 x 0.6in(L x W x H)
Color: black

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 29, 2012, 08:04:53 PM
@Hartiberlin. Have you been in contact with Phillip yet about obtaining a sample of Quentron? This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. We are all depending on you. Please do not let us down .
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: cubalibre on May 29, 2012, 10:50:08 PM
Hello

Very interesting thing, such a quentron power foil. I would be very happy if this foil does what is promised.

The coke can ventilator calculation:

Massflow [kg/s]             60CFM = 1.36 m3/min       Density 1.2 kg/m3    -->  0.0272 kg/s
Specific Heat [J/kg K]     1000 J/kg K
Delta Temp [K]               From 15°C down to 5°C   --> 10 K 

Power  Qp [W] = Massflow [kg/s] x Specific Heat [J/kg K] x Delta Temp [K] = 272 W

That is a very high electical power output. Obviously much more than the power input of a ventilator. As well a nice air condition in summertime.

If I could use this foil, I will be happy to donate the inventor. I wish you all the best.

Best regards, cubalibre
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on May 29, 2012, 11:05:37 PM
I would like to see a billionaire whose money was actually helping mankind, and not stealing millions of people, or speculating on wallstreet .


I want to see PHILLIP HARDCASTLE billionaire as a the model for the world, a real super hero, tirelessly fighting for an idea, that fills a need for all humans in the world.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 30, 2012, 08:29:04 AM
Conrad had a valid point, but if people (honest) were to keep everything secret this site would be very quiet. I chose to share what was happening and to engage, as far as I could, with people here that have a like mind.


Thanks to those for words of support, somewhat embarrassed by Elisha's praise that I can never live up to.


Many people have asked for some quenco and in time I will do my best to support the members here, but I cannot do much right now, I have posted on the quentron website an offer for a supply of chips, at very high prices, for evaluation by designers and as a means to raise capital for automated production.


I ask those wanting a 1mm2 quenco tile to be patient and I will see about distributing via Stefan some really cheap chips (or free if I can).


I will also be posting next a FAQ page to respond to some of the questions you have asked.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on May 30, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
@Cubalibre. Many thanks for that calculation. As I understand it you are saying that the air temperature would fall from 15 degrees, down to 5 degrees. And the output power would be about 270 watts. That would be absolutely perfect for the electric bike market, and also for the 4 wheel disabled scooters. Remember these bikes and scooters already exist in their millions, and it is just a case of replacing the battery. I look forward to the first round the world electric bike trip without recharging
@Phillip . Do your best as regards getting samples into the hands of the right people. I wish for you everything that you wish for yourself and your family.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on May 30, 2012, 05:41:31 PM
Very interesting technology.  Do you have any papers written on its performance? 

This would be a significant discovery if it performs as described.  The applications would be endless.  Once pattented you can license the technology to every industry that produces heat.

Is this a semiconductor device?  If so, what process are you following?  You could try and take advantage of older foundaries with older technologies in order to reduce cost.  Do you have a test facility to quality?  I used to work with a semiconductor test house that would be able to help.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on May 30, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
Hello

Very interesting thing, such a quentron power foil. I would be very happy if this foil does what is promised.

The coke can ventilator calculation:

Massflow [kg/s]             60CFM = 1.36 m3/min       Density 1.2 kg/m3    -->  0.0272 kg/s
Specific Heat [J/kg K]     1000 J/kg K
Delta Temp [K]               From 15°C down to 5°C   --> 10 K 

Power  Qp [W] = Massflow [kg/s] x Specific Heat [J/kg K] x Delta Temp [K] = 272 W

That is a very high electical power output. Obviously much more than the power input of a ventilator. As well a nice air condition in summertime.

If I could use this foil, I will be happy to donate the inventor. I wish you all the best.

Best regards, cubalibre

Let me correct some numbers :
60 CF= 60 X 0,0283168466 cbm  ~ 1,7 cbm for the massflow ,now divided with 1,36 cbm = qoutient 1,25
1,25 x 272 W = 340 W Power output :  if Delta Temp 10K !

Sincerely
                CdL

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on June 03, 2012, 01:36:47 PM
I have posted new stuff at


www.quentron.com


reflecting my view that quenco must be put into the hands of all peoples as soon as possible, and as cheap as possible


One repeated technical matter that poeple have asked/ misunderstood is that to design a quenco power source (using a 1cm2 Quenco) you must realize that the quenco can operate down to at least -100C, so the thermal flux is from ambient to say -100c, roughly speaking use a delta T of 100k in all calcs, this means that if a thermal path from ambient is via copper on each side of the quenco is 1cm then you have at least 1.6kW of output capability and a momentary power capability many time higher (good if you want to get a motor turning).


We have had a good week with technical stuff and we are back on track for a launch but we will not be able to do all the vid stuff by 11th June, so I will post the actual launch as soon as the video is done.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on June 03, 2012, 02:32:04 PM
Good on you Phillip. I am sure we are all looking forward to the release of your video. In my opinion, this is even bigger than cold fusion.You deserve health, wealth and happiness. If this makes it to market, you will forever be known as the man who saved the world.
 On your website you describe the experiment with two cubes of water. I assume that you have already done this experiment in your lab. Could you, at this stage, give us a rough idea of the size of these cubes, and how long it takes for the water to freeze/boil please?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on June 04, 2012, 09:11:23 PM
Philip says he is a Yorkshire man. But i get the impression that he is currently working and living in Australia. I have no idea of the situation there. However I can guarantee that here in the UK, or in the USA, anyone applying for a patent for this device would face two problems immediately. First they would be warned never to write of it, or speak of it, or have anything to do with it ever again.
      Secondly, the technology would be seized for National Security. That means it would be reserved for the military, MI5 , FBI, CIA, and so on. The first of many applications would be UAVs , or unmanned aircraft that would stay aloft indefinitely, and probe any country by using stealth technology. Any Patent Examiner who failed to initiate this process, would be guilty of failing in his Patriotic Duty, by throwing away the chance to give his country this advantage. And this is just one application that is painfully obvious to the layman. I have no doubt that the devious minds of the Powers That Be will find at least 100 ways to use this to take away peoples freedom, and preserve the Status Quo.
     A sad comment on humanity, but I challenge anyone to fault my logic.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on June 04, 2012, 10:39:11 PM
Philip says he is a Yorkshire man. But i get the impression that he is currently working and living in Australia. I have no idea of the situation there. However I can guarantee that here in the UK, or in the USA, anyone applying for a patent for this device would face two problems immediately. First they would be warned never to write of it, or speak of it, or have anything to do with it ever again.
      Secondly, the technology would be seized for National Security. That means it would be reserved for the military, MI5 , FBI, CIA, and so on. The first of many applications would be UAVs , or unmanned aircraft that would stay aloft indefinitely, and probe any country by using stealth technology. Any Patent Examiner who failed to initiate this process, would be guilty of failing in his Patriotic Duty, by throwing away the chance to give his country this advantage. And this is just one application that is painfully obvious to the layman. I have no doubt that the devious minds of the Powers That Be will find at least 100 ways to use this to take away peoples freedom, and preserve the Status Quo.
     A sad comment on humanity, but I challenge anyone to fault my logic.

Your reasoning is fine but you didn't go quite far enough with your logic.

"Since none of these things, like being seized for National Security or agents of the Mossad, have happened to the quentron or its inventor, regardless of patent status .... therefore........ " and then you can state a conclusion.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on June 05, 2012, 06:16:35 AM

Hi,

Will it work? will it fail, drum roll.................... that is for the launch and the vid to tell, I will post it as is on the day, will it freeze in seconds or take an hour? Will I look like a fool? (or should I say a bigger fool than I actually look). Will I eat my hat?


As to being threatened by MIB or other evils, well as TK said, I am here, and so far the biggest problem is that of being ignored when you know you have what everyone has been dreaming of. There are so many people out there that try to trade on the goodness of people that want to find a solution, the noise they make, and the distrust they engender, make it almost impossible to announce a breakthrough technology.


All I can say is that I have taken precautions to release documents if I went missing or dropped dead under mysterious circumstances. There are now many people who know exactly how to make a quenco and they have an NDA with me so if I vanish they are not bound to keep any secret.


I personally cannot conceive why any individual or individual oil company would want to suppress when they can make more money being part of the solution. As to governments, well it just does not add up to me that it is possible or that they would want to suppress energy breakthroughs.


Lots and lots of people are asking me for info via the q contact page and I will reply to everyone in time.


One thing I want to make clear, I am not looking for donations, and I am not looking for investors.


I am interested in talking to people that want to help or people that want to set up production, and my request for an altruistic billionaire is not an offer to sell out but a stab in the dark that someone out there would want to help without consideration of monetary return, after all billionaires have children and grandchildren that will need a viable planet to live on.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on June 05, 2012, 11:03:10 AM
The pricing forecast seems to be quite conservative or even pessimistic to some, I wouldn't bet on it. I did notice a bigger monetary aspect in your latest business plan change though. If quenco gets released I doubt it would take beyond 2014 to get a roll-to-roll ALD production line set up by you or by anyone else ripping the technology off. Your prices seem fine for proof of concept and prototypical studies. But these won't last beyond the first few months when pretty much anyone has accepted the reality of this technology and would want to get on the bandwagon ASAP to start "printing" these like stamps by the millions.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on June 05, 2012, 01:31:57 PM
@TinselKoala. The situation is not clear here . Firstly, I do not of course, want to see Quentron disappear. My understanding is that the technology has not yet been patented, nor has a patent been applied for . I may be wrong.So applying for a patent would thrust this into big brothers face, and would in my opinion, forcibly draw the attention of the wrong people.
@Philip. It is probably simplistic to assume that Governments have the peoples interests at heart. Governments have the Governments interest at heart. Not the same thing.
ADDED LATER.I have found that the situation regarding USA patents has much improved since 2003. Just what the situation is in other countries, I do not know. So what I am basically saying is that I wish you every success, but at all times watch your back and look before you leap.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 05, 2012, 06:52:29 PM
Some additional thoughts....   Look at the economical difference between NiMH, NiCd, Li-Ion batteries that are rechargeable versus alkaline batteries.  Rechargeable batteries are hundreds of times if not thousands of times more economical (and don't become as much of an environmental problem) than alkaline batteries.  Yet Duracell, Eveready and others still sell millions of alkaline batteries.  What is my point?  It is that people may be slower to adapt to a much smarter solution than we might think.  That may be a good thing in the short term in that if this technology moves forward first into smaller devices like AA size batteries, E-bikes, and similar things that do not threaten the major energy cartels it could possible get established without creating the wrong sort of attention.  Once established it could then move onto bigger things like cars, home power and so on as it would be a known and proven technology which at that point I believe would be hard to stop.  Just some rambling thoughts. 

    Some more...   My Dad used to say all politicians are crooks.  I thought that was rather a callous outlook way back then but now I would tend to agree.  And if they don't start out that way how many can resist both the huge payoffs (some call contributions) they get from big corporations.  And if that doesn't work then I'm sure in some cases they are given a choice which involves taking a nice sum of money or having their families threatened.   So IMO is it naive to trust that our government will be helpful in getting this into the hands of the people.  You know my answer to that.  A recent article at the top and center of CNN.com (mainstream news page) was titled "Why do politicians LIE?"  I was actually surprised to see that on CNN but once in a while CNN does surprise me with something real. 

   I continue to wonder if it is a good idea to bring a lot of attention to quenco until they are in production in such numbers (million or more ?) that it could not be shoved under a rug.  Yes finding a really altruistic billionaire would be great but I won't hold my breath.  People like Gates and Buffett who might now seem altruistic with all the billions they are giving to charities will simply not want to upset the status quo and I think quenco has the potential to do that - although it would be in a very good way in the longer term.   The Google boys seem to always be looking for ways to reduce energy usage and be greener.  Their energy usage to run those millions of search servers is astronomical.  They built one of their main centers in Oregon where water powered energy (dams) is much cheaper and greener than many areas.  They also were very involved in the Tesla electric roadster.  They might be one possible investor.  The Waltons (Walmart) seems to always be looking to ways to reduce their cost of energy and they do invest in greener solutions.  Just some more ramblings....
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 05, 2012, 06:55:25 PM
@TinselKoala. The situation is not clear here . Firstly, I do not of course, want to see Quentron disappear. My understanding is that the technology has not yet been patented, nor has a patent been applied for . I may be wrong.So applying for a patent would thrust this into big brothers face, and would in my opinion, forcibly draw the attention of the wrong people.
@Philip. It is probably simplistic to assume that Governments have the peoples interests at heart. Governments have the Governments interest at heart. Not the same thing.
ADDED LATER.I have found that the situation regarding USA patents has much improved since 2003. Just what the situation is in other countries, I do not know. So what I am basically saying is that I wish you every success, but at all times watch your back and look before you leap.

Could you elaborate on what you found that lead you to think the situation regarding USA patents has improved since 2003? 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on June 05, 2012, 07:01:20 PM
Ok, so much for politics and patents, back to technical matters.
 Firstly, we have talk of a 200 volt device for electric cars . That is 200 volts DC. So this unit can not be used in its present form as a domestic power source. This can be overcome by the use of an inverter. Power Mosfets, which are one of the main components of an inverter are plentiful and cheap. Although our mains supply is AC, many domestic appliances actually convert this AC to DC before using it. So in time, when every appliance has its own built in power supply, this problem will disappear.
        Early models of Quenco look like being 2 volt or 12 volt . We could certainly use the 12 volt on an electric bike , either by rewinding the motor to use 12 volts, or by using a DC-DC converter. We may even be able to use the 2 volt version if enough amps are available . I am not sure if we could build a DC-DC coverter to run on 2 volts. Does anyone know?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on June 06, 2012, 06:02:54 AM
Hi,


Quick short post.


People have asked how they can help, that is fantastic and I appreciate the community spirit.


Answer is that I am not sure, what I do know is that I am not going to cope too well after launch if I try and do everything. I am more than ever convinced that I need to form a not for profit foundation that would control all the IP rights. Such an organisation should have a strict constitution based upon sound humanitarian principles.


So I need people that want to provide legal, governance, technical, production, logistics, pr, accounting and many other skills.


I would like those people to be motivated for all the right reasons and they should not have any conflict of interest.


I will set up some pages on the quentron website with some words when I have received feedback from interested persons.


Can you please contact me via the website contacts page rather than the message system here as it is easier for me to manage and respond to.


Lastly, a quick technical response,


I do not know how cheap quenco could become, I can tell you that if you melted one down (so to speak) the materials would be worth about a dime, the costs are machine and labour. I can tell you that making the first ones has been a battle and that I have been given quotes that looked like telephone numbers, I can also say (and will say more some other day) that I have also been given assistance by some very good people whose only motivation was to help make this all happen, ultimately with the assistance of many good and smart people Quenco might well become cheaper than a postage stamp.


Phil [size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on June 07, 2012, 09:03:35 PM
My main purpose of this reply is to keep Quentron on the front page. The fact that the Quentron web site is in the process of change suggests that we can probably expect more informationto be relaesed very soon .
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on June 08, 2012, 08:10:41 PM
So, is the launch now set for the original June 11 or has it been pushed back as stated earlier?

Title: Possible thermal exchange solution
Post by: Goat on June 09, 2012, 11:05:01 PM
Hi All;

I've been following this thread for awhile and been thinking about the solutions being discussed and then it hit me!

From what I understand Philip Hardcastle mentioned that he could demonstrate that a quenco unit could boil water in one reservoir and in the other reservoir freeze water and produce electricity from the process.

What if there was a pump supplying the correct proportion of hot water to the cold side reservoir to keep it from freezing and continue pumping from there into the bottom of the hot side reservoir  so that you could stop the cold side from completely freezing.

Sorry if this idea is wrong but it seemed a simple solution a minute ago :)

P.S.: If the above idea doesn't work what about a year long ice cube and hot water supply!  LOL

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on June 10, 2012, 02:46:47 AM
Goat,

I think you are looking to deeply at this, if you just disconnect the wires to the heater then the hot side stops getting hotter and the cold side stops getting colder. But yes you could feed some of one side back into the other just to keep it within the desired range I suppose.

The new refrigerator / hot water heater unit!




Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Goat on June 10, 2012, 03:58:17 AM
Goat,

I think you are looking to deeply at this, if you just disconnect the wires to the heater then the hot side stops getting hotter and the cold side stops getting colder. But yes you could feed some of one side back into the other just to keep it within the desired range I suppose.

The new refrigerator / hot water heater unit!

Hi lumen;

With all due respect, how am I "looking to deeply at this"? 

Up to this point this thread has been trying to look at the possibilities of augmenting power by different methods but the basic problem seems to be the heat and cold side of the module.  If what I proposed would solve the problem then what's wrong with that solution?

Maybe I missed something in your post as a counter argument, if so, please explain it, I'm sometimes dumb at getting the point of someone's point in a post, so if I missed it please forgive me and carry on  :)

P.S.:  "The new refrigerator / hot water heater unit!"  That part I agree with :)

Regards,
Paul

 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Groundloop on June 10, 2012, 04:22:59 AM
Hi lumen;

With all due respect, how am I "looking to deeply at this"? 

Up to this point this thread has been trying to look at the possibilities of augmenting power by different methods but the basic problem seems to be the heat and cold side of the module.  If what I proposed would solve the problem then what's wrong with that solution?

Maybe I missed something in your post as a counter argument, if so, please explain it, I'm sometimes dumb at getting the point of someone's point in a post, so if I missed it please forgive me and carry on  :)

P.S.:  "The new refrigerator / hot water heater unit!"  That part I agree with :)

Regards,
Paul

 

Paul,

There is no "but the basic problem seems to be the heat and cold side of the module".

The module converts heat directly to energy. So you need to apply heat to both sides
of the module. The limiting factor is how much and how fast you can provide heat to the module.

GL.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on June 10, 2012, 11:17:16 AM
On the latest site update it states

Quote
We are still a few weeks away from showing the public proof that Quenco is as claimed
  The production delays are minor but are out of my control
  So I will not make the mistake of announcing a new launch date yet

http://www.quentron.com/
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Goat on June 10, 2012, 02:12:17 PM
Paul,

There is no "but the basic problem seems to be the heat and cold side of the module".

The module converts heat directly to energy. So you need to apply heat to both sides
of the module. The limiting factor is how much and how fast you can provide heat to the module.

GL.

Thank you for clearing that up Groundloop, now I understand.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on June 10, 2012, 04:35:42 PM
Goat,

I was agreeing with you!
I was only stating that a quenco device seems to have a more direct approach to solving the machine you were talking of.

If I understand this correctly, heat will convert directly to electrical energy in the quenco chip. The heat causes a charge to accumulate but if you do not use it (or no current flows) then no additional heat can be converted to electrical energy.
Only when you deplete the charge will more heat be converted to increase the charge again. So if you disconnect the wires from the quenco chip, it stops converting heat to electrical energy and in essence stops cooling.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mscoffman on June 11, 2012, 04:41:00 PM
To be honest we already have 1/2 the model of this process
it is called an endothermic chemical reaction which absorbs
environmental heat and produces chemical reactants. But none
so far that can reprocess the reactants to upgraded energy
and then keep themselves going that way. They all stop. Also
practically, impurities will build up in a chemical reactor and these
eventually deplete or block the reaction.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: cubalibre on June 12, 2012, 12:31:43 AM
Hello

I think it is more like the Seebeck effect with electron tunneling and new material combinations as atomic layers; Cu, Ni, Al, Wo ...? Please take a look in wikipedia.

Regards, cubalibre
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on June 12, 2012, 04:12:12 AM
The Seebeck effect is almost like the Quenco device except I think it's probably closer to a charge polarized material. Where electrons with higher kinetic energy migrate through a barrier because of the polarization. Mainly because the Quenco chip does not require a cold side to force electron migration.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on June 13, 2012, 05:30:06 PM
I don't get it, now the website doesn't show anything.

If this thing does anything close to what he is talking about there are so many companies that would be fighting over the rights to this thing.

Would have loved to get my hands on one just to see how efficient it is.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mscoffman on June 13, 2012, 09:30:18 PM
I don't get it, now the website doesn't show anything.

If this thing does anything close to what he is talking about there are so many companies that would be fighting over the rights to this thing.

Would have loved to get my hands on one just to see how efficient it is.

@vrstud
 
Your right...Maybe he ran into some "technical" difficulties?
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on June 15, 2012, 01:17:14 PM
QUENCO necessary applications in order of priority


1 - Homemade electric generator (consumption of 500 watts to 9000 watts) Quenco 48V 200 Amper, more than enough. Version warm climate, cooling the house, version cold weather, cool outside air.


2 - Electric Bikes (consumption of 250 watts to 500 watts), Quenco 12V 40  Amper, more than enough.

3 - Computer power supply (consumption 200 watts to 600 watts), Quenco 4V 150 Amper, more than enough.


4 - Bulbs LED (consumption of 20 watts), Quenco 4V 6 Amper, more than enough.


5 - The Electric Car (100kW accelerating consumption 10kw sustained velocity), Quenco 200 V 500 Amper or 50 of 200 V 10 Amper, more than enough.

Projects that could sponsor the Foundation:

1 - Integral Education, teaching human beings to think, work together and with nature, as http://ariresearch.org/ (http://ariresearch.org/)


2 - local manufactures of Hydroponics systems, tubes, mixers, drivers, all open source.

3- Extract water from air, to drink.

4- The zero water electronic toillet, use water from air and compost, no water in, no drainage out, like http://www.ecoethic.ca/files/mulltoa60_specs.pdf (http://www.ecoethic.ca/files/mulltoa60_specs.pdf)

5- The open source electric motor, (http://www.flynnresearch.net/technology/PPMT%20technology%20white%20paper.pdf (http://www.flynnresearch.net/technology/PPMT%20technology%20white%20paper.pdf) )

5 - The car opensource, http://www.wikispeed.com/ (http://www.wikispeed.com/)


6 - The community development kit, http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page (http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 24, 2012, 10:42:57 PM
Bump for a very very hopeful technology.   Are you still with us Philip?    I see quentron.com now has a brief summary of the Quenco and a wonderful statement of intentions for it. 

........................,,-~*~,,
......................./:.:.:.:.:.|
......................|;.;.;.;.;./
......................|.;.;.;.;.|
............._,,,,,_.).;.;.;.;.|
.........,,-":.:.:.:."~-,;.;.;.|
........(_,,,,---,,_:.:.);.;.;..",,
......,-":.:.:.:.:.""-,,/;.;.;.;.;.",
.....(:.__,,,,,,,,,___);.;.;.;.;.;|
...../"":.:.:.:.:.:.:¯""\;.;.;.;.;.,"
....\",__,,,,,,,,,,,__/;;;;;;;;;/\
.....\.::.:.:.:.:.:.:.;.);;;;;;;;;/:\
.......\,,,,,---~~~~;;;;;;;;,"::::\
.........."""~~--,,,,,,,,,,-"::::::::::\
...................\::::::::::::::::::::::\

Just in case this doesn't come across right that's a big Thumb's up in ascii art  (old school Internet :)  )
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on June 26, 2012, 05:53:16 AM
Thanks for the thumbs up.


Quick update.


I am awaiting a phone call this week to tell me the news I have been waiting for for 2 months, but if the guy lets me down again then I am booking a flight to Cambridge Massachusetts to get the batch done by a 2nd source.


A number of people have been talking with me re setting up production units in Europe and the USA, and also some indication of a facility in South America.


I have a few people doing creative and engineering work and doing thermal modeling, nice to have such stimulating input while I have been twiddling my thumbs.


Have just had some very interesting early conversations with a humanitarian related group and I am having a conversation about food growing applications using Quenco to control temperature and to collect water and produce ammonia fertiliser by electricity.


I apologize to the many that have asked for a tile and to those that asked to buy one, I simply cannot say when until we can set up a pilot plant, no doubt things will accelerate once I can distribute the tiles to testers etc


To those that wonder if this is all sc-fi, all I can say is that there are a few of you that have received Quenco IP, and though not allowed to divulge secrets they are free to say to others if what they now know speaks the truth.


Soon is going to be sooner than the skeptics think, but every day to me is like a Chinese water torture.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on June 26, 2012, 06:07:38 AM
Good to hear from you again and yes sometimes you're at the mercy of others or even fate, I hope you'll pull through. But I'm sure you will if the technology is the real deal. And in my opinion, be VERY careful if/when you set foot in the USA, even weirder things tend to happen there. But as always I wish you good luck.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on June 26, 2012, 08:47:04 AM
Hi all, I am new of this forum. I am interested in free energy and this quentron device seems to be promising. I wonder whether Philip Hardcastle already has a working sample between his hands. It should be of great service for all of us to see (maybe by posting a video which does not show too much for IP reasons) one of this solid state device working as declared.

I think that this way you (Philip) would have less troubles in finding investors to overcome most of the practical problems you are saying to be stuck with.

To me this is so simple.

Thank you all.
Hollander   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on June 26, 2012, 01:04:54 PM
 @hollander, Well then you would be a fan of Mylow and Co.

If you read the posts my problem is not about getting investors, and in fact some of the people from here have made offers that I have not taken up.
The only proof that counts is either an openly sold product or a quenco in the hands of a totally independent tester(s). I am not going to go down the road of doing what you ask.

I can tell from your choice of words that you are merely being provocative, I suspect the fact that your first post is to me that you are just another of the moles from the mindless moletrap.

What you are trying to say, is that if I do not post a video here when you ask me to, then I am a scam.

If I have read you wrong then I apologize, but if you are genuine you would respect my rights to do it my way, your way (if I chose to do it) would get me absolutely nowhere, it would attract people who would accuse me of smoke and mirrors.

So I continue without wasting my time, and the time of others, to get it done in the lab and then out to the testers, if that leads people to call me a liar or a scammer, then that is their choice.


I posted here, after making a public apology for not making the launch date, simply because I was being courteous to those that posted a comment. You are welcome to make contact with me on the quentron page so that you can give me your actual name if you wish to talk further.


If people want me to give updates here, I will, but if people are going to be rude and cast aspersions, I will not.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on June 26, 2012, 01:56:01 PM

The only proof that counts is either an openly sold product or a quenco in the hands of a totally independent tester(s). I am not going to go down the road of doing what you ask.

I can tell from your choice of words that you are merely being provocative, I suspect the fact that your first post is to me that you are just another of the moles from the mindless moletrap.

What you are trying to say, is that if I do not post a video here when you ask me to, then I am a scam.

If I have read you wrong then I apologize, but if you are genuine you would respect my rights to do it my way, your way (if I chose to do it) would get me absolutely nowhere, it would attract people who would accuse me of smoke and mirrors.

So I continue without wasting my time, and the time of others, to get it done in the lab and then out to the testers, if that leads people to call me a liar or a scammer, then that is their choice.
...

If people want me to give updates here, I will, but if people are going to be rude and cast aspersions, I will not.


Wow, what a welcome! Well, my intent was not provocative, and I wasn't rude. I was simply asking the more obvious and legitimate question on earth: Do you already have a working prototype? If yes, it would be great to see a video about its functioning. It would greatly play in your favor, believe me.
I didn't tell about "scammer" or "liar", but given your not very polite reply I must follow the latin old saying:
"Excusatio non petita, accusatio manifesta"


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on June 26, 2012, 02:23:54 PM

Philip Hardcastle, is an inventor, well known in this forum of alternative energies. His work is based on the search for direct conversion of heat into electricity.


Quenco is the third design, and previous designs have been very well received in the community for its sound engineering, physical mechanisms used are pretty solid, and their designs are quite innovative.


We know that Quenco requires a series of expensive laboratory equipment, although accessible in any semiconductor company, but not something that can be done in the workshop of a house.


So be patient, as the best strategy for a device as disruptive, is irrefutable proof, and there is nothing more irrefutable proof that an independent third party test, this is what Phillip want and we support him the necessary time.

The force of the nature will help us !
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on June 26, 2012, 02:55:46 PM
@Hollander. Welcome to the forum.I am sorry you got off to a bad start. Philip is going through a very frustrating time at present. If you read all the previous posts you will realise that Philip does indeed have working prototypes. In spite of the manufacturing problems he is facing, he is still not far off as regards his promised time scale, and is at the mercy of others.
       2012 is the year things are really starting to move, with several technologies on the brink of realisation .
Quentron is special, because it is likely to be the first new technology that is applicable to transport applications. We have waited since the dawn of the industrial revolution for this. Another couple of months is not too long to wait, so lets all hang in there.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 26, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
Hollander,  Does it not seem foolish to come on here saying your are new and yet in the same post to say it seems so simple?  If it does not then I think most people would assume you are here to stir the pot (agitate).   In light of that I don't think you have any reason to be upset.  I fully agree with Philip's reply to your post and he even apologized up front if he was wrong.  While videos have become a popular way for backyard experimenters to show how they built something or to simply show they actually did build something it is a great way to open up hundreds of pages of debate and questions on how you faked a video if you are claiming overunity or some new power source.   But for a known physicist it would be an exercise if frustration and a waste of time.  Philip is going about this the right way.  If you think this is simple I would strongly suggest you read over this page thoroughly:
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/howtheywentwrong.htm
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: KHaeus on June 26, 2012, 09:58:09 PM
Dear Philip (and all others),

I've been following the whole thread about your Quenco device and technology and I want to state here, that amongst all the OU devices I have come along, this is by far the most thrilling concept. Simply because of its
1. compactness, 2. power density and 3. cost efficiency (at least the prospect to reach very low cost when going mass production). No Rossi E-Cat, Bedini, et al could make my eyes brighter than Quenco and their business models do not convince me, since they are not open enough.

Being neither an electronic expert (my background is mechatronics) nor a "senior" member of the free Energy community, I am not the right person to give technical advices. But as a convinced believer in the existence of free energy and the success of open-source technology, I want to encourage Philip to stay on track and fully concentrate on the most important topic: make the Quenco as cheap as possible. Don't try to develop full-featured devices, let others do this for you and to your and our all benefit.

I am wondering how we could possibly help Philip in this stage? Donations, testing, technical inputs? It should really be in our common interest, that he will not fail just as so many others did before (e.g., Tesla, Hendershot, Schauberger,...). Criticism is OK as long as it is constructive, but what Philip needs (this is my personal opinion) is community support (more in a moral/mental way), otherwise he would not share so many thoughts in this thread. He could have done it all himself and when it is completed say: "This is it. Here is the revolution!". But he did not.

Although I am not a billionaire (not even close  :-[ ) I know many people and companies here in Central Europe who would be pleased to base new thrilling products on Quenco technology? The possibilities would definitely be endless and would certainly reveal mankind from the #1 topic of the future -> free access to energy for everyone in sufficient quantity! Just imagine a Tesla Model S WITHOUT 8000 laptop cells full of Lithium and other rare resources  ;D

Keep on going, Philip. If I could be of any support here in good old Europe, let me know!
- Kurt
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 27, 2012, 02:50:10 AM
Welcome KHaeus and thanks for you good thoughts and offers here on the Quenco thread.  I agree with much of what you are saying.  I hope to someday see a car running on Quenco based power.   That would be one of the ultimate highlights that could be achieved with this technology IMO.  I can see myself jumping up and down squealing like a kid when I even see the first flashlight or cell phone running on this tech (and I'm old enough to remember the thrill of the first color TV's :)  ) as that will mean the breakthrough has happened with finally getting a new and better energy device out to the world and into the hands of the public.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on June 27, 2012, 03:01:19 PM
Hollander,  Does it not seem foolish to come on here saying your are new and yet in the same post to say it seems so simple?

No. I said I am new of this forum, not that I am new of the field. 

Quote
While videos have become a popular way for backyard experimenters to show how they built something or to simply show they actually did build something it is a great way to open up hundreds of pages of debate and questions on how you faked a video if you are claiming overunity or some new power source.   But for a known physicist it would be an exercise if frustration and a waste of time.

This is my thought: if you already have a working technology (even if it is a prototype), you do not fear to waste time to demonstrate anything. Things speak for themselves. I'd like to buy some quenco chips, but if I were a physicist I would not believe their functioning (absent scientific proofs, so far) and if I were a simple buyer, similarly I would not be sure to spend my money on something that I have even never seen before. It is for these reasons that I suggested to post photos, videos or other.  By the way, I remember that even Hardcastle wrote once on quentron.com that he would have soon posted on his website some videos about hot water cooled down by his device....

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 27, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Currently there is nothing yet even close for anyone that is available to buy and as I have followed and read all posts in this thread it sounds like Philip is working on a well documented release of info when everything is in place.  Something this big takes time and it sounds like he is extremely busy trying to get everything in order.  I believe he has been working on this for 12 years.  He just started this thread about 2½ months ago.  We are all anxious to see and have more on this but if you want things done right it takes time and I believe that is how Philip is going about this.  Have you read this whole thread?  I believe one of the reasons he came here with this announcement was for ideas in deciding how to best go about getting the quenco from a great discovery into a useful device out to the world.  Have patience and I believe we will all be on our way to a wonderful new world of energy and more.   
    I'll add that I'm not trying to speak for Philip but I'm trying to save him time in responding to posts here.  I think after reading everything here I'm very close to being correct in my statements and some assumptions above but if not I'm sure we will hear some corrections as time allows. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on June 28, 2012, 10:34:59 PM
Interesting paper discussing the thermo electrics

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinthermaltoe.pdf
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on June 28, 2012, 10:49:28 PM
Looks like Philip isn't the only horse in the race.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-29/phononic-devices-s-chips-convert-waste-heat-into-electricity.html

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on June 28, 2012, 10:56:53 PM
http://micropower-global.com/

A company in Texas that is doing the same thing. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on June 29, 2012, 01:14:44 AM
Looking at those other ones they don't look anything like the quenco other than the fact they use heat for genereating electricity from wasted heat in certain apps.   It does not IMO sound like it's based on the same concept. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on July 02, 2012, 02:13:58 PM

a efficient solution to get ambient heat to QUENCO (http://mail.yahoo.com/), the article say that is 30 times more efficient that a conventional solution.


http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131656-the-fanless-heatsink-silent-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131656-the-fanless-heatsink-silent-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time)[/size]
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on July 07, 2012, 06:38:30 AM
Hi everyone,


Here is an update.


The scientists working on fabrication have made a lot of progress and over the next few weeks they should finish all sorts of technical calibrations that will allow mass production. Another highly qualified and skilled scientist is joining the team so things will speed up.


The mistake of June launch was mine by being naive as to all the things that needed to be tested such that a standard method of mass production and optimisation could be developed. I am now hopeful that it will be the first week of August but I will not give a launch date until they have done all their work to their satisfaction. I have 100% confidence and respect for the top level scientists working on this, and I am so grateful they are giving their time for free to be part of this.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on July 07, 2012, 09:27:55 AM
It seems like you're jumping into mass production much earlier than previously expected, is this the case or am I misunderstanding your latest status update? I'm also glad you attracted the right people to get this done as correctly and as fast as possible.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on July 07, 2012, 08:52:51 PM
Philip,  I'm glad to hear your update and that's great news.  I was getting ready to contact you through your site as I was getting a bit worried since you hadn't posted in a while. 

broli,  I am just guessing here but I think he may be saying things will be ready in August for a public release (and maybe video?) and that all issues that need to be resolved to put it into mass production will be ironed out so to speak.  I don't think it will actually be in mass production by then.  And I will assume this is for the mass production of the core element rather than a finished power product.  All just my guesses but I would be very surprised if a ready to use power product could be done by August.   I'd love it if there was but I don't expect it to happen that fast. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on July 07, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
This is very good news! As more people get involved, the process to market will move faster.

Sounds like they are dialing in the fabrication process and maybe by August they will have it working well and possibly a few samples could become available for some applications people to work with.

Though the first product would likely be of very low voltage (100mv or so) some tricky design concepts could still yield a few unique products.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: catbauer24 on July 09, 2012, 08:12:42 AM
Philip - I hope everything goes well for pilot production!

Question on the tech - is the cooling effect only present with electrical current draw from the device?  It would make sense, as the current would essentially replace the heatflow of a heat engine.

In regards to the second law of thermodynamics - stating that heat must always flow from hot "high-pressure" to cold "low-pressure" ignores the fact that theoretically, energy can be transformed into another form with 100% efficiency.  In fact it ALWAYS is, though we say something is inefficient when we transform something into multiple forms of energy, all at 100% efficiency (conservation of energy) instead of just one form.  I'd say, assuming the device does work as advertised, it could be close to 100% 'efficient' converting heat energy to electric energy, though I would go to say physical limitations probably mean there is at least a very small loss into another form of energy - maybe some form of sound or radiation emitted not being converted to electricity.

Also I've thought about heatpumps (as many have I'm sure)... for a cop of 6, if that extra 5 units of heat out could be converted to electricity with 20% or greater efficiency, that creates a 'perpetual' motion machine of the second kind if I'm not mistaken.  In a closed system I suppose that would break the second law as it could reduce entropy if introduced to a system with 100% entropy, but factoring in 'electrodynamics' as well instead of purely thermodynamics.

Basically if all atoms have high kinetic energy (say 1000C) in a closed system, entropy is '100%' and no work can be done!?! To say no heat 'flow' by itself may be true, but does it say that energy can't be converted to another form?  In that sense the other form can be utilized to create a temperature differential and truly break the 2nd law of thermodynamics I suppose.  However even in 'heat death', there is plenty of energy, and at the universe scale at least, gravity can still do work and create temperature differentials by itself (possibly some type of compression / expansion gravity heat-pump so to say).  The law of thermodynamics is a 'wrong model' but useful, as George Box would agree.

I did a search on overunity and appears 'thermotunnel cooling' doesn't have any results:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermotunnel_cooling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermotunnel_cooling)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on July 09, 2012, 01:41:43 PM
more like this:
www.prior-ip.com/patent/70834999/ (http://www.prior-ip.com/patent/70834999/)       and instead solar heat   home:  www.nlsemi.com
to know more about magnetic capacitor potentials
enter "Google" with   " Mcap,quantum " 
 and go to energymedicine.org.tw  page11  or enter "Energy storage"  www.arpa-e.energy.gov
   
Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on July 17, 2012, 01:40:49 AM
Hi friends!, there is fresh news, please check quentron.com

In the while, update the QUENCO necessary applications in order of priority.
 
1 - Homemade electric generator (consumption of 500 watts to 9000 watts) Quenco 48V 200 Amper, more than enough. Version warm climate -> cooling the house, version cold weather -> cool outside air.


2 - Electric Bikes (consumption of 250 watts to 500 watts), Quenco 12V 40  Amper, more than enough.


3 - Computer power supply (consumption 200 watts to 600 watts), Quenco 4V 150 Amper, more than enough.


4 - Bulbs LED (consumption of 20 watts), Quenco 4V 6 Amper, more than enough.5 - The Electric Car (100kW accelerating consumption 10kw sustained velocity), Quenco 200 V 500 Amper or 50 of 200 V 10 Amper, more than enough.


Projects that will sponsor the Foundation of Philip:
1 - Integral Education, teaching human beings to think, work together and with nature, as http://ariresearch.org/ (http://ariresearch.org/)
2 - local manufactures of Hydroponics systems, tubes, mixers, drivers, all open source.
3 - Extract water from air to drink, Buy and make open source new technologies like http://www.aquasciences.com/ (http://www.aquasciences.com/).
4 - The zero water electronic toillet, sponsor a xprize competition, use water from air and compost, no water in, no drainage out, likehttp://www.ecoethic.ca/files/mulltoa60_specs.pdf (http://www.ecoethic.ca/files/mulltoa60_specs.pdf)
5 - The open source electric motor, sponsor a open source solution (http://www.flynnresearch.net/technology/PPMT%20technology%20white%20paper.pdf (http://www.flynnresearch.net/technology/PPMT%20technology%20white%20paper.pdf) ).
6 - The car opensource, http://www.wikispeed.com/ (http://www.wikispeed.com/), and make / sponsor the open source universal conversion kit!
7 - The community development kit, http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page (http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page) 
8 - License the super heatsink for open source  http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131656-the-fanless-heatsink-silent-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131656-the-fanless-heatsink-silent-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time)


The electrification of the car is low priority because the release of QUENCO will lower the price of the gasoline significantly.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on July 18, 2012, 10:01:18 AM
Hello Elisha,
the cities authorities -globally- want to establish zero emission zones.
This means that the "mild hybrid kit" has a priority,
the total car traffic electrification is something for the future =more exspensive !
The costs for Hybrid kits with conventional parts (battery/eMotor et cet.) are actually 1000-1500 Euros,probably a quenco-system could be cheaper =faster R.O.I. ,normally -30% fuel savings and zero greenhouse gases emission in town !

Sincerely
                CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on July 18, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
A surprisingly high percentage of car journeys are only 3 or 4 miles long. Replace the car for these journeys with an electric bike, which uses a battery only one tenth the size and cost of an electric car battery.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: catbauer24 on July 21, 2012, 08:33:55 PM
Site down today, title: "CLOSED - X".  Temporary maybe?  Maybe too distracting for Philip, or trying to hide from PESN coverage to save credibility :)

Just some thoughts for when (hoping!) this comes out... people will say "Tesla's free-energy rediscovered".  It is my strong belief backed by historical evidence that while Tesla was a genius man and inventor, he didn't have any form of energy harvesting from the environment.  He did however put the idea out there that it could be done, although that is a completely different thing.  He berated those who made "Einstein king", leaving the real genius, Newton, in his shadow.  In the same light, Tesla isn't "king", nor anyone else with any contribution.  I personally consider John Von Neumann one of the greatest minds to have lived... and maybe, one who is due much more credit than society gives him today.

Also many may remember when Steve Jobs and Dennis Ritchie both passed away just days apart:
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/10/thedennisritchieeffect/
http://www.maniacworld.com/steve-jobs-vs-dennis-ritchie.html

Thank you Philip for replying to those of us personally who asked a few questions!

-Chuck
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on July 21, 2012, 09:43:08 PM
www.quantumbattery.ch  show us the problem about to realize nanosphere ideas.
Hope,patience,money and many trials for success.

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on July 22, 2012, 05:54:26 AM
The site was finally getting some good updates and progressing rapidly. Now CLOSED!

What does that even mean? I could see under construction or moving or anything other than CLOSED.
Closed seems so final, I hope everything is ok.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on July 22, 2012, 06:24:21 PM
The site was finally getting some good updates and progressing rapidly. Now CLOSED!

What does that even mean? I could see under construction or moving or anything other than CLOSED.
Closed seems so final, I hope everything is ok.
Yes that is disconcerting and while I know he is busy I am very concerned.  Did anyone have his email (I forget if it was posted in this thread but I'll check in a minute) or a way to contact him?  His site is far from being expired as it's paid through April 2013.  Unfortunately he has domain privacy set up so no easy way to contact him from domain name info. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on July 22, 2012, 07:31:15 PM
Google still has a cached version of the web site and some pages including a brief theory page.  The site was apparently a paid version on Wordpress.  I do hope this is just a temporary down time to add more to the site.  If anyone has a way to contact Philip please PM me. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on July 22, 2012, 10:24:25 PM
http://www.overunity.com/5002/hardcastlesolomon-thermionic-generator/ (http://www.overunity.com/5002/hardcastlesolomon-thermionic-generator/)
http://www.ipmonitor.com.au/patents/case/2008902247 (http://www.ipmonitor.com.au/patents/case/2008902247)

I did not know that this is the second trial from
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3125 (http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3125)
http://www.overunity.com/6904/curled-ballisitic-thermionics/ (http://www.overunity.com/6904/curled-ballisitic-thermionics/)
Philip Julian Hardcastle.
http://www.ipmonitor.com.au/patents/case/2011904703

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Kator01 on July 23, 2012, 01:33:33 AM
Hello,

this is strange: The Webarchive just has one entry dated back Feb. 2011. No snapshot in 2012

http://web.archive.org/web/20110201215655/http://quentron.com/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20110201215655/http://quentron.com/)

the domain is owned by a german company named Endmark:

http://www.endmark.de/en/agentur/ (http://www.endmark.de/en/agentur/)

so obviously the domain has been taken over by this company.

But still a Quenco Blog exists:

http://www.quentron.com/quenco/] (http://www.quentron.com/quenco/)

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on July 23, 2012, 05:47:10 AM
It looks like the web page is back and seems to indicate that everything is still on track!
Probably just getting adjusted for the big release.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on July 23, 2012, 06:18:35 PM
Yep looks like the web site is back.  Not much but at least a message that there will be an official  launch in September.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on July 28, 2012, 09:28:32 PM
Someone sure is busy making sure the website keeps morphing every week or so :p. I hope 29th of September will be the final date which is quite a push back from the first announced date, but hey what's a few months time compared to decades of energy technology suppression and repression.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 01, 2012, 05:13:11 PM
http://www.energyharvestingjournal.com/articles/infinergy-micro-power-module-product-family-00001815.asp (http://www.energyharvestingjournal.com/articles/infinergy-micro-power-module-product-family-00001815.asp)

the very little beginning of a great idea

Sincerely
                 Cdl
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on August 01, 2012, 06:54:38 PM
That looks like it is an alternative to a battery, not the energy source itself.  It still requires an AC or DC source.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 01, 2012, 07:46:54 PM
RF (vibrations) receiver and accumulator function in one package like
http://www.cmoset.com/uploads/TP_AE_00_JouleThief.pdf (http://www.cmoset.com/uploads/TP_AE_00_JouleThief.pdf)  and other ambient power module like Joe Tate invention ,also usefull as earth quake pre-warning advice.
Do not forget  the quenco is 'a thin film  in a stack converter'.

And as source for itself I only know about suns,Pulsars and Quaesars but not on earth ;) !

Sincerely
                CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 01, 2012, 09:53:22 PM
There are some more additions on www.quentron.com - some info regarding licensing plans and costs.  I can understand how big this may be but I would think to get it rolling it might be good to offer a lower cost license to the first company or first couple to want a license.  I also somewhat question the annual fee and cost per mm square as something which might deter some interests.  I am sure I haven't considered all this nearly as much as Philip has and he may have researched all this and has found this to be a reasonable startup plan.  But just on the surface it feels like it might stifle startups.  However I may be totally out of touch with the monetary end of all this...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on August 04, 2012, 01:25:14 AM
Hello Elisha,
the cities authorities -globally- want to establish zero emission zones.
This means that the "mild hybrid kit" has a priority,
the total car traffic electrification is something for the future =more exspensive !
The costs for Hybrid kits with conventional parts (battery/eMotor et cet.) are actually 1000-1500 Euros,probably a quenco-system could be cheaper =faster R.O.I. ,normally -30% fuel savings and zero greenhouse gases emission in town !
Hello Lanca, a QUENCO kit is better without all the power combustion engine and related accesories, like fan, radiator, air compressor, alternator, battery, fuel tank,  etc.   a hybrid will have a lot of maintenance and many more points of failure. What do you think about a mild hybrid?  :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on August 04, 2012, 01:40:48 AM
Updated information in quentron.com.

Philip is making great information available in the site, also have graphics to show the way of quenco works.

The price of 0,10 A$ per mm2 is very chip, because a 5kiloWatts 1cm2 Quenco at 110 V. will be like 100 layers, in royalty is 10 A$, but the street price will be like 1.000 A$, i live in a poor country but at this price this is a bargain.

Please every one, Be Ready to spread this information all over the Internet, we are blessed to be first, Let's take this good news to everybody, everybody will dance to the music of Quenco!  8) .
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on August 04, 2012, 04:42:16 AM
If he is/was ready to go into production, that means that he allegedly has working prototypes.  In my opinion you are at the stage now where with the delays and the web site going off line and coming back - that you should ask him for proof of a working prototype.  His credibility is in question.

You really are looking at a too-good-to-be-true story, so the proof is in the pudding.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on August 04, 2012, 11:33:41 AM
Curlitron: Philip's experiment from 2009: http://www.overunity.com/8306/curlitron/#.UBzkR6N0iko (http://www.overunity.com/8306/curlitron/#.UBzkR6N0iko)


Edit:
Comparing the description of these two devices:

http://www.powerchips.gi/technology/overview.shtml (http://www.powerchips.gi/)
and
http://www.quentron.com/theory.html (http://www.quentron.com/theory.html)

the resemblance is striking even despite Philip's denial ( http://www.overunity.com/12207/quentron-com/msg323676/#msg323676 ); the only difference seems to be in that, that the one uses Tuneling technology while the other uses Termionic: Tuneling is good for low temperature while Termionic is for higher temps.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: aaron5120 on August 04, 2012, 03:30:52 PM
Curlitron: Philip's experiment from 2009: http://www.overunity.com/8306/curlitron/#.UBzkR6N0iko (http://www.overunity.com/8306/curlitron/#.UBzkR6N0iko)

Hi Qwert, took a look myself the experiment proposal written by Paul Lawrence, and I think the curlitron effect can be enhanced with a very long and slim copper heatink, given a current and a voltage measurement across the heatsink (head and tail).
Therefore, I think, the thinner and the longer the nanometer heatsink, the better the effect will manifest. That is probably the reason why Hardcastle wanted the cooper to be vapor deposited by vaccum over a subtrate by a third party, because it can be made into some nanometers thick, and over a roll of plastic membrane. You just apply electrical current over the both ends of this long sheet of metalized copper coated plastic, and the ambient heat will do the rest, producing copious amount of electricity.
We can invite Paul Lawrence to this thread to corroborate the idea, whether it is logical.
aaron5120
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 04, 2012, 04:09:28 PM
Updated information in quentron.com.

Philip is making great information available in the site, also have graphics to show the way of quenco works.

The price of 0,10 A$ per mm2 is very chip, because a 5kiloWatts 1cm2 Quenco at 110 V. will be like 100 layers, in royalty is 10 A$, but the street price will be like 1.000 A$, i live in a poor country but at this price this is a bargain.

Please every one, Be Ready to spread this information all over the Internet, we are blessed to be first, Let's take this good news to everybody, everybody will dance to the music of Quenco!  8) .

Hello Elisha,aloa Caracas,
I eat chips ;)   pro-v/b-avelmente de p/b-atata ,my PC has got a chip  ::) de silicio  and I hope that the quenco mild hybrid kit assembly will be very -mucho,mucho - cheap  :) para todos iguallés e desiguallés hombres deste mundo

Adeus é Adios con un chip-chip-hurray na voca loca
                                                                                              CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 04, 2012, 04:24:29 PM
Hi Qwert, took a look myself the experiment proposal written by Paul Lawrence, and I think the curlitron effect can be enhanced with a very long and slim copper heatink, given a current and a voltage measurement across the heatsink (head and tail).
Therefore, I think, the thinner and the longer the nanometer heatsink, the better the effect will manifest. That is probably the reason why Hardcastle wanted the cooper to be vapor deposited by vaccum over a subtrate by a third party, because it can be made into some nanometers thick, and over a roll of plastic membrane. You just apply electrical current over the both ends of this long sheet of metalized copper coated plastic, and the ambient heat will do the rest, producing copious amount of electricity.
We can invite Paul Lawrence to this thread to corroborate the idea, whether it is logical.
aaron5120

But is this not the typical behaviour on p-n layer by photon entrance,
stimulating the copper electrons,
accelerating the current stream -north/south earth force orientation dependant,

the second sketch only showing us - 2dimensional- the 3/4dimensional rotating-spiral-form-like movement ,
a"flow" like a tornado - the copper: the Auge,Kalmen
.
from thesis to idea (not mine)

http://www.arminwitt.de/hoegl.html (http://www.arminwitt.de/hoegl.html)    from UT Batelle Institute Europe
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=5902416A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19990511&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=5902416A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19990511&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP) easier to read for somebodies  ::)

and from Curlitron http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/16/curlitron-proposed-experiments/
 to Mr. Dr. Hoegls http://www.arminwitt.de/elfino.html (http://www.arminwitt.de/elfino.html)

Sincerely
                CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on August 05, 2012, 07:39:53 PM
In post #171 I wrote: Tunneling, Termionic technology. Of course, it's not TECHNOLOGY, only PROPERTY (PROPERTIES).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on August 06, 2012, 03:46:13 AM
Hi All,


To the guy that says my credibility is in trouble, you have my email, my name, some here also have been supplied other confidential info, I have kept people informed as much as I can given the laws governing intellectual property etc, I have asked nobody for a penny and even turned down a lot of offers of money, so given all these things I think it is a bit rich for you to question my integrity behind your mask of anonymity. I have given on the quentron.com website key dates of things and have given out a lot of info about quenco short of making a premature launch.


As to the website going off air that was something that was a delicate and private matter now resolved. Nothing to do with my credibility or quenco functionality.


A launch is a launch is a launch, I do not intend to be niggled into a lot of pre-launch dribs and drabs, and in my experience if I present anything it will be attacked so the smart thing to do is to present independently verified work in the form of signed reports by known professors of Physics from know and respected institutions.


Anyway, enough on that subject.


As to what some reckon Quenco is, i can assure you it is not CoolChips technology, though I have over the years had a few conversations with them.


It is not Curlitron, nothing like it.


Quenco is the result of finding solutions to 3 problems / needs that almost by miracle worked out right, a bit like the existence of life on Earth, but for all 3 things being possible Quenco could not have worked.


Anyway things are going very well and the launch date might be brought forward by a few weeks (or not), but it will not slip.


Regards
Phil



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on August 06, 2012, 05:39:15 AM
...   ...

Phil, you are not obliged to reveal anything. However, peoples' natural behaviour (believe it or not, it's not just your behaviour) is to get know, and to get it NOW(!). Tracking info available on internet,  your behaviour seems somewhat weird: you put some info on numerous sites (including your own) and after a while you remove that info. My conclusions base on that behaviour. What to think, if you say that "It is not Curlitron, nothing like it", but one entry hint on your site suggest Curlitron (among others)?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on August 06, 2012, 06:07:58 AM
Qwert:
 
 I believe Philip has many years into the development of the QUENCO device and it's likely that he has experimented with many or all of the methods indicated on his web page, but the QUENCO chip is unique in it's operation. To state doubt at this time is somewhat foolish with only a few weeks to the public launch.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 06, 2012, 09:37:48 AM
Solution search :

To read and think about the amplifier-formula : the Biot-Savart law
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=38&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19850314&CC=DE&NR=3330899A1&KC=A1 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=38&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19850314&CC=DE&NR=3330899A1&KC=A1)

and to realize this  as Boltzmann absolute  "black  "(w)hole" body".
                                                                               black also called dark, anti-matter=shadow + the motion/the wind-ing
                                                                                                                         german:    Schatten                              - wind   
     
to realize the overestimation of expressions by us "intelligent"people,

                                                    "Super-/Hyperraum/Hyperspace/Hyperro(o)m",the Makro-Kosmos

( hyper= greater /bigger as great and super,it is the sphere above my/our personal possibilities to work
out ideas with my/our human body and I / we have to work it out with instruments or machines,
 in the the makro-space and micro-space,calling this Micro-Kosmos now:     
                         
                 from ulterior/inferior                        "Ulter-/Infer-Raum( engl.:Space or ro(o)m )/",the Micro-Kosmos .

                                                                             

                                              sono-/accustical            bandgap:        ultra-/infra-sonic
                                              lumniszends                  bandgap :       ultra-/infra-red


                                   mef emf fem  fem         motion=(Eigen)spin         conversion


                                    black (cold=slow motion but >0 )/        white(hot=high velocity motion )
                                                  symboL                 y in  -g/ y an -g 

                              internal : Fleming-Eigenspincycle movement orientation-rule
                                                                               and 
                                                        Lenz-Eigenspin-cycle orientation orientation -rule
                             ( probably ,serious thinking: with an okzidental moving  orbit ?)
           
                               
                   calling this an:                 all ambient  particle motion  converter
                                                                                   Teilchen-Welle
                                                              all:     organic and anorganic particle motion
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution offer:

                                        borealis.gr has only power- or coolchips,

        Mr.Hardcastle has the 2-in-1 :hot and cold-power-combination-chip ,   
     
        working like DePalma/Tewari N-Space- trap-Machine :

        also converting the matter decay motion=beta voltaic,

        earth seismic  continental movement like Joe Tate module
 
       and body( for pace-maker/ear amplifier et cet....) brain motions ( no comments  ::) ??? ,endless )

        finally   a  http://www.rexresearch.com/hooper/hooper1.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/hooper/hooper1.htm)       
        antenna,rectenna and converter
 
       as  QUENCO , all this in one pack-age.


        Space,quantum physical the Minkowski 4.Welt,Raumzeit  :       http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski-Diagramm (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski-Diagramm)
        SPACEKRAFT

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     analog this evolution in history:
 
        knowing the spanish history  about Falangista and their symbol :
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Bandera_FE_JONS.svg&filetimestamp=20110426002145 (http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Bandera_FE_JONS.svg&filetimestamp=20110426002145)
       Renaissance from the roman history,this symbol not representing the force from/for the tribun,
       but  from/for the consul :
                                                   german,das Rutenbuendel, representing the sun.
         Julius Gaius Caesarius.
         Neptunus,Zeus,the flash.

                                                    Meaning: all the power- in one hand, also included: thumb up or down.
                                                   
                                                     But sometimes it is better to use both handes,not only one
                                                             and if we close the - both- "Falangista" parts
                                                                  we get the sonofusion device.
                                                                          el TOR-O-IDO
                                               
 I think Mr.Paul Hardcastle you viewed  the 'fiction :as reality ' movie with an actor
named Christopher Lambert ,Hollywood gave an example for power concentration,virtually/artificial
But what would be the mission from an ' Highlander II ' movie ?
                                                                                                      Highlander       
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on August 06, 2012, 02:16:46 PM
Qwert:
 
 I believe Philip has many years into the development of the QUENCO device and it's likely that he has experimented with many or all of the methods indicated on his web page, but the QUENCO chip is unique in it's operation. To state doubt at this time is somewhat foolish with only a few weeks to the public launch.

@Lumen, you are right. Mea culpa.
We'll see pretty soon (if he won't move the term again).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 06, 2012, 06:10:54 PM
Philip,  Thanks for giving us another update here.   There will always be the 'doubting Thomas's'  due to many past bad experiences but I (perhaps an eternal optimist) believe this is going to be different and will be what we have all been waiting for.  It's obvious we need to make changes now more than ever for this planet.  After reading some new statistics just this week I think our weather is clearly getting hotter on a global scale and I believe Quenco can have a very positive effect in bringing things back to balance if it is able to be implemented on a large scale.  Whether by millions of small units or hundreds of thousands of large units or both it may truly be a life saver for this planet.  Best of luck in the launch!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on August 06, 2012, 07:57:38 PM
I'll make you guys a deal.

From what I understand the current status is that we are expecting the announcment of a new launch date "within a few weeks" and the launch date will be "within a few weeks" of that.  There is a feeling of confidence about this.  Agreed?

So the deal is if there are two more announced launch dates that aren't met then I will give you my honest appraisal of this proposition and what transpired on this thread.  Or the same thing if nothing happens by the end of this year (that's almost five months from now).  Or, the same thing the moment Philip mentions "2013."

Does that sound fair?   :)

And of course if everything happens as (soon to be) promised, then I lose the deal and we are all winners.  They are going to suck the heat right out of the bedrock and that will power our society.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on August 06, 2012, 08:09:39 PM
After reading some new statistics just this week I think our weather is clearly getting hotter on a global scale and I believe Quenco can have a very positive effect in bringing things back to balance if it is able to be implemented on a large scale.  Whether by millions of small units or hundreds of thousands of large units or both it may truly be a life saver for this planet.  Best of luck in the launch!

From what I understand Quencu produces electricity out of thermal energy. That same electricity when flowing as a current through a resistance produces thermal energy. So a closed system with Quenco inside never loses its thermal energy but still can do useful work. Thus trying to cool the environment won't work, as whatever you are using the electricity for, its resistance will heat it back up. I'm btw not a proponent of man made climate change but that's beside the point.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on August 06, 2012, 08:25:30 PM
A Quenco system would not produce any carbon byproducts.  It would produce cold cell phones though.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on August 06, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
A Quenco system would not produce any carbon byproducts.  It would produce cold cell phones though.

Not really, perhaps in the region of where the thin film was installed. But if the main heat sources like the cpu, gpu, antenna, lcd... where to be covered with Quenco the phone should, from what I get, remain at the current temperature of the environment as the thin film is absorbing all the radiated heat of these IC's and conductors and giving it back as electricity. Since the heat of these components is used to power them a true closed loop system arises. And this would apply to everything. For instance a conductor covered with Quenco would become a "pseudo" superconductor. Since you are absorbing all the heat and putting it back into the system as electric energy everything remains at the temperature of the environment you are in and be, theoretically, lossless.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on August 06, 2012, 09:02:45 PM
You are right, I didn't think about that.  Many electronic devices cold be nearly self-powered like that and only have to draw in a small amount of external thermal power - if it works.

Anybody see a preliminary or released spec sheet for this device?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 06, 2012, 09:13:34 PM
A Quenco system would not produce any carbon byproducts.  It would produce cold cell phones though.

A Quenco chip not,you are right.

A Quenco system ?
Quenco chip could become a carbon and byproducts generating machine energy source part.

Creating new material matter,when there are no more natural resources .
Look what "Curiosity" does actually on Mars - by L.A.S.E.R. melting - and spectralanalysis and think reverse !
matter/materia2light and light2matter/materia.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: slapper on August 06, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
my experience with wafer fabs is they are almost always late with their lead times. and this is with one of the largest fabricators in the country. it was for an amr sensor for currency detection and it wasn't the most conventional geometry. after completion about 1/3 of the sensors failed. some things can't be helped on the first run. the smaller wafer fabs were worse. i can only imagine what philip has been going through. the start-up costs are steep but you get a good number of die for the minimum number of wafers they'll produce.

even though i'm an open source'r in the free energy field i like the direction philip has decided to take on this. i don't think he should release any proprietary information on a project like this. the upfront costs are to high. if he did publically release the information there would no incentive for investors to put money into start-up costs.

if anyone is interested in where philip is coming from look at his previous posts from years back and see what he has published in the past on his website by searching the wayback machine.

take care.

nap
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 06, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
From what I understand Quencu produces electricity out of thermal energy. That same electricity when flowing as a current through a resistance produces thermal energy. So a closed system with Quenco inside never loses its thermal energy but still can do useful work. Thus trying to cool the environment won't work, as whatever you are using the electricity for, its resistance will heat it back up. I'm btw not a proponent of man made climate change but that's beside the point.

I agree and also am not a proponent of man made climate change but I think this will help from several angles in the long term.  Not all electricity used is 100% converted to heat though.  Some becomes light or RF or simply motion.   Man made or not the stats support that we are having a noticeable increase in warm weather in the last couple years.  It's been a rather sharp uptick in a short time. 

Then there's Milehigh - the eternal pessimist....
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 06, 2012, 11:47:34 PM
Not really, perhaps in the region of where the thin film was installed. But if the main heat sources like the cpu, gpu, antenna, lcd... where to be covered with Quenco the phone should, from what I get, remain at the current temperature of the environment as the thin film is absorbing all the radiated heat of these IC's and conductors and giving it back as electricity. Since the heat of these components is used to power them a true closed loop system arises. And this would apply to everything. For instance a conductor covered with Quenco would become a "pseudo" superconductor. Since you are absorbing all the heat and putting it back into the system as electric energy everything remains at the temperature of the environment you are in and be, theoretically, lossless.

This is a feedback cycle.
With one real limit: entrophy recitating "Since you are absorbing all the heat and putting it back into the system ....."
                                                                                                                     all the heat=all the motion =
                                                                                                                     to   zero point Kelvin  :
                                                                                                       and the       zero point ict-coordinate   geral
                                                                                                                                               ic~t                     specific,dynamics

                                                                                                      cognitive: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtkegel
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: fritz on August 07, 2012, 01:42:49 AM
This is a feedback cycle.
With one real limit: entrophy recitating "Since you are absorbing all the heat and putting it back into the system ....."
                                                                                                                     all the heat=all the motion =
                                                                                                                     to   zero point Kelvin  :
                                                                                                       and the       zero point ict-coordinate   geral
                                                                                                                                               ic~t                     specific,dynamics

                                                                                                      cognitive: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtkegel (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtkegel)
I got pretty hot about the quentron - but I think that the awareness of entrophy is essential for building such stuff.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on August 07, 2012, 10:47:12 PM

I understand that some are skeptical, and we know the reasons, many scams have appeared, some have made ​​videos with hidden cables, some only with edited video tricks, none has given a test by a third party, and always retrace the date of testing public, Steorn is the best example. Even some of us have fallen into his deceptions and lost money, I am one of those.


But Philip is different, has not asked for any money, and their designs have a very solid theoretical basis, that makes it very different, and separates it from fraudsters we have seen in this medium.


We just have to wait a few weeks more.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on August 08, 2012, 01:22:48 AM

Quenco applications are enormous as well as its impact on society.


We will have cell phones that are not heated, with processors producing heat and this heat feel Quenco convert to electricity, making the processor run faster consuming more electricity, producing more heat, which will become more Quenco electricity. In the end, it will be only the problem of how to bring the heat Quenco processor, the first solution is to make the SOC (system on chip) with a metal sink Quenco connected to, the following designs integrate Quenco square micrometers, dispersed throughout the SOC design surface.


Any manufacturer of microprocessors, Quenco need a license to manufacture its chips powered car.


The motherboards will be made smaller and not need space to dissipate heat, and have less to regulate the voltage components such as capacitors, power mosfets, resistors, etc..


The processors will be made to the maximum possible speed, not more fans, only passive heatsinks get some heat from the environment.


There will be little difference between a computer processor and the processor of a cell phone or a video console.


The electric vehicles will be made very cheap for the $ 40,000 to $ 15,000, will be more lightweight and maintenance almost nonexistent. Goodbye to the radiator and liters of water, goodbye to the alternator to the battery goodbye, goodbye to oil change, goodbye to the engine overheating, goodbye to the air conditioning compressor, goodbye to the water pump, goodbye to the station gasoline.


The electrical appliances will have no wires, no need to recharge, no more buying batteries and toxic waste, no more sulfated batteries damaging our equipment.


A new generation of planes will emerge, able to fly indefinitely, no more planes to $ 200,000, welcome the $ 40,000 personal plane, see http://www.facebook.com/pages/Synergy-Aircraft/112353422181543


Bulbs that do not require electricity, powered, the LED bulbs problem is heat dissipation, which means they have to be spaced about sinks to reach 100wats, this is solved with Quenco and also no longer will use current, or cables , only a wifi connection to be switched on and adjusted the color of light and power.


Water extracted from the air, deshudimidificadores traditions or modern technologies as http://www.aquasciences.com/


We will be able to see new things, such as aerial mobile homes, manufactured homes imagine, designed to be transported by air to its destination in time.


Zeppelin powerful, able to move large amounts of cargo without the need for runways.


New vehicles for amphibians, new aircraft boats, houseboats, personal quadcopter, etc..
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 08, 2012, 10:27:42 AM
Elisha,you are writing about a social impact -your inside view  outlooked as human society re-and foreward view.
But there is more than only "man's/mens world" :

Our bio-system -weight related-with humans had an 1000:1  quote
 ( literature source  Time-Life-book :"Plants" ,their dates I think from the sixtiees, now -with the population growth dynamic from +/- 4Bill. habitants in the     60' to 7Bill. 2012                  an other relation) !

  it begans in a Club of Rome,ringing the alarm-bells,1972.
  enough,there is not more great potentials of growth !
  beware of the planet,the biosphere,the consequences

Elisha, a radio wave emissed by an radio station and absorbed by an ambient energy converter like
ambient/atmospheric energy converting modules will not reach the expected radio station audience and "clients".

Our cellular Nature communicate wire-less with radio waves from different frequency band gaps >n 0Hz(cell up pulse sequence /cell down pulse sequence per sec :  breath it in
                                                                              and breath it out,
                                                                            the swinging Breeze) :

                            >0Hz (Hz= Hertzian wave/"Swing")                 ~                            >0°K

                                                                     total movement absorption                                                         
        no more wire-less communikation when there will not be an frequenz gap absorbing limitation
        human -up to cell-comunication and other biological ?!-mission transmissions
     
                     where is the priority in this "free movement world"

                             free communication or free energy : a census is needed-individual and common/public
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                       Going back to ur- ugarit -Babel/Babylonia ( written !   spoken :?))
                                               the twist and zwist-Opus
                                               
                   thinking about mene and mono and tekel ,with fanal: Menetekel,Belsazar
                                               making a census : validating pros and cons
                                  in german Gueterabwaegung,ausbalanzierend,balance

                                            using a " virtual " l'yra/ira/Harfe/harpe:
                                            knowing the Amplitude
                                            defining the lines,gaps                               
                                            the (k)nodes/knotes(like in Bolivia the kipu)                               
                                            the (k)nodes-key and the fixing of the key-zero-point   
           
                 Music has a text and a melody, for so called e-or u-music,in german
                 It has a bell function. a. Bell-o gallico.
                                                       b.the morning wake up

               It works like a weapon: Ex-Pres. Fujimori Embaixada en Lima/Peru Loudspeaker-Counterattack
                                                                                                                                            contra "sendero luminoso"
   
                or doing counter stupid parents a"  Rave.live ambient "with Punk-house music on the turntabl,
                loudness max..
                         


                    Shouting,crying,laughing,singing are physically defined movements,
                    culturally also signs for humanity,the e-motions                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                 
Parents natural call:  (uwaelb-uewaelb : we write this help) to energy : call2energy
they died,not receiving the medicine
Babies  natural call :   (uwaeh-uwaeh)                                      to energy : call2energy
Baby died,hungry and thursty
The hushpuppy call: wuff-wuff ( we-humans-mean:barking to energy ): call2energy
neighbour could rescue

                             Shouting for: god/the wife/mother  in heaven  the el all ,an s.o.s. situation   

                                                                          all  Shout2energy               
                             
                            touching humans is movement and emotion
                            heartbeating is movement and emotion                                                     
                            exspectations/visions are movements and emotions.   
                           
                            all energy is movement is speak is signal is emotion
                                                                                                                          in many differing dialects and formations
                                                                                                                           colors and dimensions     
                       
                           This all 2energy ?

                                To understand use your sins and sense ,an multilingual- translator or an Poly-Photo-/Phono-graph.
                                before you -like Midas - change this all 2energy,what we call live and living behaviour
                                Does this matter ?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on August 10, 2012, 08:31:51 PM
first samples today.  Would love to be in Australia right now to help with things.
 ;D
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 11, 2012, 04:18:25 AM
first samples today.  Would love to be in Australia right now to help with things.
 ;D
Yeah really - me too.  Can you elaborate on what you heard about first samples being available? 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on August 11, 2012, 11:39:20 AM
That's just the timeline according to http://quentron.com/launch.html
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on August 17, 2012, 10:38:39 PM
He Phillip -

Any update on how things are going?  Devices behaving as expected?  How was the wafer yield?  Lots of people eager to know how things are going and if there is anything we can help with.

Chris
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: orbut 3000 on August 18, 2012, 01:51:43 AM
Phil has plastered his web site with the following message:


***
There will be no release of information or data relating to the laboratory and production work until after the filing of full patents. No questions will be responded to on such matters.
***


It looks to me that this means
- He will not answer further questions until the patent is filed.
- He has nothing positive to report yet.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 18, 2012, 09:57:26 PM
Sorry to see this is not finding another way to get into production.  A little clip out of Ash's Panacea-bocaf.org website article "How they went Wrong" : 
"People are still being removed

Here is a very good reason for this individual to be removed. In June of 2002, U.S. Patent 6,404,089 for the "Electrodynamic Field Generator" was issued to Mark Tomion, president of Archer Enterprises. To the best of our knowledge, this Patent is the first in the world for a truly all-electric power plant.

Mark Tomion

AESI is confident that our prototype 24kW air-cooled StarDrive Generator† will during certified testing exhibit a net input COP approaching 200 [or, a 200:1 ratio of net output to net input], and we can now show where the corresponding "net output COP" (the ratio of net output to gross input) is reasonably projected at ~24kW / 0.216kW or 111:1. Such a successful demonstration may soon open up incredible new opportunities for both private and commercial concerns in applications which could never be cost-effectively (or profitably) developed to date.

AESI's 24kW EDF Generator

Perhaps the greatest advantage the EDF Generator may have over almost any other over-unity device now known or proposed is that it is fundamentally linearly-scalable — including the liquid sodium coolant system! We have designed large "Thermal Unit" plants that will produce electrical power continuously at 60 to 720 MW output levels, without requiring normal 'fuel' of any kind, and their permanent magnet banks will never need to be remagnetized! The only operator input energy these unparalleled free energy devices will require during their entire in-service lifetime is that initially needed to bring the rotor up to speed (and the thermoelectric elements up to operating temperature)

The Electrodynamic Field (EDF) Generator is a patented high-voltage DC motor-generator, the most remarkable feature of which is that it produces in operation a high-energy electrodynamic field [or quasi-coherent DC corona or arc discharge] which completely encloses the machine's conductive housing.

AESI's 24kW EDF Generator

MARK R. TOMION FERGUSON CORNERS- Mark R. Tomion, 51, died unexpectedly Friday, June 19, 2009 at his home. A memorial service will be held Tuesday June 23 at 7 p.m. at the Kenneth J. Perkins Funeral Home in Gorham. Burial will be in Shuman Cemetery.Memorial contributions may be made to the Yates County ARC, 235 North Ave, Penn Yan, NY 14527. Reference. Here is the last remaining mirror of his old site. His web site is now gone and so have his research papers.

One more for the record. Free-Energy Battery Inventor Killed at Airport? Official statement cites "natural causes" but others familiar with the disruptive potential of the inventor's technology to the existing power structure consider it a probable assassination.

"… On Nov. 11 2007, inventor of a revolutionary, affordable, clean energy technology, M. DeGeus was found slumped in his car, totally unresponsive, in the long-term parking lot of the Charlotte Douglass International Airport in North Carolina. …" He was apparently on his way to Europe where he was to secure major funding for the development and commercialization of his technology, which could make oil obsolete. …""DeGeus was the inventor of a thin wafer-like material/device that somehow specially aligned the atoms or electron currents ongoing in that material, so that the wafer produced a constant amperage at a small voltage – continuous real power, or in other words a strange kind of "self-powering battery". "

Just a couple of the hundreds of known cases....     I truly hope this kind of ending can be avoided but it's a sticky path the follow in getting a patent without these sort of troubles.  It would be naive to think the energy cartels and big oil will not try to stop this by any means possible and I have no doubt they control much of our governments. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: orbut 3000 on August 19, 2012, 01:07:54 AM

I think it's a bit too early to pull conspiracy theories out of less illuminated places.
Phil is still alive(AFAIK) and it certainly wouldn't be in his interest to be associated with conspiracy theories etc. Let's just wait and see. Soon, etc.   
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on August 19, 2012, 04:00:01 PM
Hi All,


Those that are following quenco can rest assured that there is no conspiracy or problems, please just allow me to take heed of advice that the proper thing to protect the rights of many is to ensure that intellectual property I hold is transformed into an airtight Patent so that it cannot be usurped by the big corporations. The cloak of secrecy that has become apparent is not an indication of anything bad, but it is necessary that I keep some secrets until after the full patent filing.


Please be assured that my intentions are to maximise the benefit for the people, not to make mega bucks for myself.


I know some will feel this is some sort of scam or false claim of a miracle breakthrough that is outside conventional science, it is not, and may I say that some who have been given confidential disclosure would have no problem telling you if this was a scam (without breaking any legal restriction).


So just be patient and please understand that I will not reveal anything of the work on quenco until 29 September, even to friends.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on August 19, 2012, 04:02:41 PM
I will not post here again until after 29 sept
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on August 19, 2012, 04:41:21 PM
Just a reminder, which I'm sure you still know all too well Philip but it doesn't hurt to repeat the obvious.

This technology has the potential to completely alter our social, legal, monetary, political and economical institutions as we know them. To what extent exactly, is even beyond me but it's good to keep that in mind. Because to rely heavily on the current broken (and mostly corrupt) business practices will only give you a near term solution. If and when this takes over like a storm and crude oil pretty much becomes a useless smelly black liquid we will see a major shift in pretty much every field I mentioned above.

Patents are (read: were) good in a sensible manner, but patent and copyright law have lost their senses and true purpose a long time ago. What's left is a means for big corporation to pretty much patent everything they see fit, (see for example Apple's infamous "rectangular object with rounded corners" patent or the ridiculous patents on nature itself, human genes) so they can unleash their lawyer army from hell on whoever they see fit. Patents used to protect the little guy, which is far from today's case. In today's situation patents are useless unless you're a patent troll or have the means to enforce them id est you have your own patent army from hell. I would even go as far as saying that patents today truly impede innovation. However I respect your choice for patenting the technology because frankly at this point in time, any solution is a good solution so it doesn't matter what you choose as long as the technology gets released in some way or form. And we can always discuss a more optimal solution when the world gets over the initial shock this will cause :p.

Anyway thanks for the status update, even the occasional "everything is going as planned" is enough until the big party in a month or so :D .
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on August 19, 2012, 06:25:57 PM
Broli,I must recuse the projection !
Quenco,like other generators,will be part of the total recycling concept for the future,energy included !
Crude oil and coal parts you find -in pharmaceutics -in plastics -in colours and many other industrial and final consumer products.

Today are just existing 99,9% recycling methods which deliver cheap new-cleaned-entry-proces-material,very clean -like earth explored !

Less aggressivity would help all and also give the today involved branches/sectors to make a strategical change cause this is an universal evolution step: earth-moon- mars - ..... !
Industry employment is time-parallel 99,9% the consumer work-and income place !


Sincerely
                CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 19, 2012, 06:48:56 PM
Thanks for the update Philip.  I may have over reacted a bit in posting the worst case scenarios.  I do believe we have reason to fear our government though and the big controlling interests which manipulate it.  I also largely agree with everything broli said.  Hanging out in this alternative energy scene for over 20 years though I've seen so many promising things that have disappeared or never made it to production that I get a bit concerned when I see something like what you have (highly promising in so many ways) that it will end up going the way of so many others (maybe some or most did not really work in ways that would be real world usable).   I know of one inventor who is very aware of these problems and who managed to get a patent on an energy device by carefully wording things so the potential of the device would be obscured from the patent people.  Hopefully some careful wording will be incorporated in your patent(s) so it won't be on their radar. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 19, 2012, 07:35:14 PM
I forget if I posted reference to this before but for easier reading I just OCR'd this into text  (had to edit the less than perfect OCR so may still be some minor errors).  This is the infamous USPTO-SAWS memo.  I'll attach the original PDF also which shows the official page stamp.   :

"UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE

DATE: March 27, 2006
TO: TC 2800 managers
FROM: Janice A. Falcone, Group Director
Sharon Gibson, Group Director
Robert Oberleitner, Group Director
Richard K. Seidel, Group Director
Arthur Grimley, Acting Group Director

Commissioner for Patents
United States Patent and Trademark Ofce
P.O. Box 1450
Alexandria, VA 22313-1450

SUBJECT: Reminder on TC 2800 Guidelines for Sensitive Application Warning System
- - (SAWS) Program Reminder
This is to remind our personnel that Technology Center 2800 has in place a SAWS program
based on the following guidelines. All TC 2800 managers must remind their examiners of this
program and its implementation.
T Attached is the updated TC 2800 SAWS program. Please review and disseminate.
UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
Commissioner for Patents
United States Patent and Trademark Ofce
P0 BOX 1450
Alexandria, VA 22313-1450
www.uspto.gov
SPECIAL APPLICATION WARNING SYSTEM
(SAWS)
Technology Center 2800
 March 27, 2006
I. PROGRAM OVERVIEW:
The SAWS program was designed to assist in processing of patent applications identified as
claiming subject matter of special interest that, if issued, would potentially generate high
publicity or would potentially have a strong impact in the patent community. It is also an
information gathering system to apprise various segments ofthe USPTO ofthese patent
applications.
This program applies to all pending applications and reexamination proceedings (reexams).
' As a program to assist in processing of patent applications and patents undergoing
reexamination, it is intended to ensure that the examination standards and guidelines are applied
properly to such applications and reexams that include sensitive or noteworthy subject matter.
As an information gathering system, the SAWS program should identify applications and
reexams that, if issued as a patent or reexamination certificate, would be controversial or
. noteworthy. A '
The initial identication of SAWS applications/reexams is performed by the examiners (may
also include managers and classiers). Therefore, it is important that examiners stay informed
about this program and the identication criteria. '
Independent of the SAWS program, examiners are encouraged to bring to their
supervisor's attention any application/reexam that raises issues that they are uncertain
how to handle. Supervisors are responsible for determining which applications/reexams
proceed through the SAWS program versus those applications/reexams having other issues ~
which are normally addressed by existing examination procedures and established
examination/re-examination guidelines. '
11. OPERATIONAL OVERVIEW:
TC 2800 handles the SAWS program based upon a tiered process-of application/reexams
identication. This process relies on Examiners and SPEs to identify these applications/reexams, _
and a SAWS screening committee to verify their status. The SAWS screening committee
comprises the home SPE, at least one of the following managers in the TC 2800 Quality Center:
Management Guidelines for Sensitive Application Warning System (SAWS) Program
. - 2 -
Cassandra Spyrou, Clayton LaBalle and Hien H. Phan, and another TC 2800 management
ofcial.
Applications/Reexams which have been identied and veried as containing SAWS material are
reported the TC Directors, and as needed, a SAWS memorandum is forwarded to the Deputy
Commissioner for Patent Operations and the Deputy Commissioner for Patent Examination
Policy prior to allowance or forwarded to the Board of Patent Appeals and Interferences (BPAI)
when an appeal is forwarded to the jurisdiction of the BPAI.

A. Technology Center 2800 Practice:
1. Examiners are the rst line of review since they are the most knowledgeable about the
pending claims and application/reexamination issues. Examiners will report potential SAWS
applications/reexams to their SPE. Upon approval of the SPE, the case will be brought by the
SPE to Clayton LaBalle, Cassandra Spyrou or Hien H. Phan for entering the SAWS
l application/reexam number into the TC 28 00 tracking system.
2. Flagging an identied SAWS application/reexam in PALM to ensure that the
application/reexam cannot be allowed or an NIRC issued until the ag has been removed.
3. TC 2800 has established a screening mechanism to remove non—SAWS applications/reexams
from their SAWS designation. This screening mechanism permits a second review and will
result in a recommendation as to whether the application/reexam contains SAWS subject A
matter. The SAWS screening committee will perform the second screening review.
4. Applications/reexams that have been through the TC screening mechanism and have been
identied as SAWS applications/reexams will be brought to the attention of the TC
Directors. The TC Director will bring them to the attention of the Deputy Commissioner for
Patent Operations and the Deputy Commissioner. for Patent Examination Policy.
5. For uniformity and process improvements, a SPRE, QAS, or a SAWS TC-screening
committee must be utilized. A SPRE, QAS, or a ‘SAWS TC-screening committee will be
tasked to periodically review the SAWS processing guidelines and criteria to continually
update and revise the program as needed.
6. Placing a PALM Flag on subject classes, which encompass sensitive subject matter until a
review ofthese cases is performed upon allowance (such as business methods, class 705).
7. A reminder and a11 updated SAWS criteria list will be distributed, at least semi-annually, to
examiners to stress the importance of SAWS application identification. All newly hired
examiners should be made aware of this TC 2800 SAWS program
Management Guidelines for Sensitive Application Warning System (SAWS) Program
B. Subject matter of special interest in TC 2800:
1.  Perpetual motion machines; classes 310 and 290
2.  Anti-gravity devices
3.  Room temperature superconductivity; class 310
4.  Free energy — Tachyons, etc.
5.  Gain-Assisted Superluminal Light Propagation (faster than the speed of light); class 702, 359
6.  Other matters that violate the general laws of physics; classes 73, 290.
7.  Applications containing claims to subject matter which, if issued, would generate
unfavorable publicity for the USPTO, class 84, 702.
8.  Reexamination proceedings involving patents in litigation and:
The court decision/verdict is subject to review by the Supreme Court
The court decision includes high monetary awards .
The technology and companies involved would likely generate high publicity

C. Corps-wide Potential SAWS"subject Matter ~
1.  Applications with a very old effective fling date (pre-Gatt -- before June 8, 1995) with
broad claim scope.
2.  Application with pioneering scope.
3.  Applications dealing with inventions that, if issued, would potentially generate extensive
publicity.
4.  Applications with objectionable or derogatory subject matter,
5.  Applications with inventions that would harm people or the environment, compromise
national security or public safety.
6.  Directors Ordered reexams except those ordered due to failure to considered timely led
prior art or due to prior art citation under 37 CPR §1.50 1."
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 19, 2012, 09:39:21 PM
e2:

Wow!  That is some interesting reading.  I was not aware of this program.  Thanks for posting it.

Bill
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on August 19, 2012, 10:01:31 PM
Referring to paragraph C item 3, near the bottom of the page. What would be the problem with patenting an item that would generate extensive publicity? So anyone trying to patent a new method of advertising , is a threat to National Security?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 20, 2012, 03:50:00 AM
Hi Bill,  That document has been around a little while but it probably doesn't get exposed as often as it should so I thought this was a fair time to refresh people on it. 

neptune,  I'm guessing that anything that would generate large publicity would do so because it has the potential to make large change in our world and thus likely a big change in economics.  So I believe the government would not want anything getting out of their control quickly - thus the potential censorship or more to prevent any sudden huge financial shifts.  If quenco is as big as I think and it's presented in a way that makes it's potential obvious it could possibly make some big waves.  However there have been so many potential new energy technologies announced in the last 20 years that I personally don't think people will take notice that quickly.  I don't know - it really depends on a lot of factors including how the scientific community reacts.  But if you put a shoe box size power source in front of people and it powers a hundred 100 watt light bulbs (10 kilowatts) endlessly or something dramatic along those lines then it could mean big investors, rapid development and huge sell off of investment in things like oil.  Big big changes all over the charts.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on August 20, 2012, 07:35:32 AM
So, taking under consideration @e2matrix' revelations, the best solution to avoid popular concerns is to publicize this kind of invention simultaneously with the patent application.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on August 20, 2012, 05:12:26 PM
So, taking under consideration @e2matrix' revelations, the best solution to avoid popular concerns is to publicize this kind of invention simultaneously with the patent application.

That might work if you proceeded first with a "documented patent search" to prevent the usual stacking the deck trick.
That's where some company rewords your patent and has it filed at some earlier date by their inside informant.
But then those doing the patent search may already alert them and ...... well, better get a good patent attorney, one you can trust. (if that's possible)

Philip has other patents and already knows the path.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on August 25, 2012, 01:43:18 AM
I see more changes to the Launch web page. I hope this indicates things are progressing faster than anticipated.
It looks like some chips might end up on E-bay at some point!



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on August 25, 2012, 03:57:27 PM
^ and that point being only one month away.

I hope he truly succeeds because at this point in time failure is no longer an option, either unintentional or caused by an outside "unforeseen" force. He has put the stakes too high for quenco and himself, failure will completely destroy his word and reputation even if external sabotage was at play. The conspiracy nuts would have a field day, the skeptics will yell "I told you so" and the truly honest people will lose hope. This has been shown time and time again across the "free energy" history. This is why the closed source path is so risky, and useless in this field imo, compared to the open source and open development path.

An energy revolution would change the world that we know, something as mundane as money and fame has no role in such a world. Sure it will still be part of the not so pleasant transition phase but in time people will realize they can meet their basic physiological needs AND do the things they love without having to rely on your atypical slavery like "jobs" of today. Local automated organic unlimited food growth, unlimited water supplies, personal flight systems, decentralized communication systems are just a few of examples an energy revolution would usher in. Imo the next bigger thing after an energy revolution is the personal manufacturing field, imagine a personal 3d printer that prints anything you can imagine in any material that you want on atomic nano scale accuracy.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on August 25, 2012, 04:51:59 PM
Broli,

I agree! But the next big thing should have been the first thing and while a super 3D printer is very useful, I would have to rate it at least #3.
What should have been the first big thing is permanent life extension, so everyone could live as long as they wanted and at the peak of life or about 26 years old.

The problem with such a short life is it limits how intelligent we can become! By the time a person learns enough to become truly valuable, they are already loosing their health and ability to remember.
If people could live a few thousand years at their optimal point in life, the entire race would be extremely intelligent and may have insight into expanding to other planets which is required or at some point we all become extinct!

Then you could build the 3D printer!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: bugler on August 25, 2012, 08:24:39 PM

What should have been the first big thing is permanent life extension, so everyone could live as long as they wanted and at the peak of life or about 26 years old.
But before that is achieved first we have to learn to distinguish psycopath and get rid of them so no psycopath lives forever.


The path for a perfect future is full of obstacles.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: bugler on August 25, 2012, 08:32:00 PM

Those that are following quenco can rest assured that there is no conspiracy or problems, please just allow me to take heed of advice that the proper thing to protect the rights of many is to ensure that intellectual property I hold is transformed into an airtight Patent so that it cannot be usurped by the big corporations.
I will come to this thread a year from now.


Hopefully the world will be enjoying this quenco device but more probably nothing will have come to market and, once more, we will wonder whether the criminal elite, that runs the world, destroyed the idea or whether it didn't work after all.


(btw those who don't believe in conspiracies don't know anything about how the world really works)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on August 27, 2012, 03:18:04 AM
@broli  I agree with you at all, but not in the personal 3d printer, the future is work together in unity.  We will need the new big company, a lot of small family business tightly integrated that work like a big company.


Our best wishes to Philip, we are in suspense to know the good news.


Thanks to a lot of scammers, Philip is under the radar of big elite and corporations.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: markdansie on August 27, 2012, 04:38:15 AM
Don't hold your breath for the 29th of September this is about as reliable as the JR Papp engine.
You will get other excuses for deadlines not being met. This is all conjecture no data on running prototypes.
mark dansie

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: derricka on August 27, 2012, 06:47:18 AM
Though hope springs eternal, I won't be holding my breath either, as I've already seen a number of Phil's promises go, er, "unfulPhilled".

BTW, I created this spoof of the Quenco drawing for the moletrap forum. Some of you here may enjoy it as well:
http://i49.tinypic.com/dadlu.jpg (http://i49.tinypic.com/dadlu.jpg)






Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on August 27, 2012, 07:11:30 AM
Though hope springs eternal, I won't be holding my breath either, as I've already seen a number of Phil's promises go, er, "unfulPhilled".

BTW, I created this spoof of the Quenco drawing for the moletrap forum. Some of you here may enjoy it as well:
http://i49.tinypic.com/dadlu.jpg (http://i49.tinypic.com/dadlu.jpg)

That's pretty funny, I'm printing it out right now on a giant truck inner tube, so if you are wrong we can all bounce it off your head for fun.
 :o
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: peakprod on August 27, 2012, 08:59:41 AM
Well this is fast becoming a get rich quick exercise, licenses have just gone up 10 fold@


High Power Quenco Licences[/color][/font]
Limited to 100 licences[/color][/font]
Unlimited production[/color][/font]
Upfront fee of A$10,000,000[/color][/font]
Annual Licence renewal fee of A$10,000,000[/color][/font]
Royalty of $1/mm2 of Quenco produced [/color][/font]
Restricted to the production of Quenco exceeding 1kW per cm2[/color][/font]
Minimum production of 10,000,000,000 mm2 of Quenco p.a[/color][/font]
Low Power Quenco Licence[/color][/font]
Unlimited licences[/color][/font]
Unlimited production[/color][/font]
Upfront fee of A$1,000,000[/color][/font]
Annual renewal fee of A$1,000,000[/color][/font]
Royalty of $1/mm2 of Quenco produced[/color][/font]
Restricted to the production of Quenco of less than 1kW per cm2[/color][/font]
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: bugler on August 27, 2012, 02:59:05 PM
Well this is fast becoming a get rich quick exercise, licenses have just gone up 10 fold@


High Power Quenco Licences[/color][/font]

Limited to 100 licences[/color][/font]

Unlimited production[/color][/font]

Upfront fee of A$10,000,000[/color][/font]

Annual Licence renewal fee of A$10,000,000[/color][/font]

Royalty of $1/mm2 of Quenco produced [/color][/font]

Restricted to the production of Quenco exceeding 1kW per cm2[/color][/font]

Minimum production of 10,000,000,000 mm2 of Quenco p.a[/color][/font]


Low Power Quenco Licence[/color][/font]

Unlimited licences[/color][/font]

Unlimited production[/color][/font]

Upfront fee of A$1,000,000[/color][/font]

Annual renewal fee of A$1,000,000[/color][/font]

Royalty of $1/mm2 of Quenco produced[/color][/font]

Restricted to the production of Quenco of less than 1kW per cm2[/color][/font]


Wow!!! it sound what comes after extremely suspicious.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on August 27, 2012, 05:02:30 PM
Well this is fast becoming a get rich quick exercise, licenses have just gone up 10 fold@

Yes, but if you held in your hand the single device that was about to replace ALL the trillion dollar oil, gas,solar,wind,industries and everything related from around the entire planet, what kind of value would you place on it?

This is of course if you live long enough to get it to market or they just steal your patent and say it is theirs, like what happened to Dr Brzezinski.
"He who controls the energy, controls the country!"

If you made 100 Billion a year it would take you 10 years to make what the oil companies make in 1 year! He will probably need to raise his price!

With that kind of money, one could hire a team of the top 25 experts in the field of DNA research, and solve the aging problem. Then a single person could forge the world like no Government has the coherency to do.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: catbauer24 on August 28, 2012, 07:57:45 AM
new Launch page:

Patent Filing                   21st September 2012
Scientific Paper               24th September
Public Launch                 29th September
Patent Publication           1st October

Scientific validation is now a paper (maybe still a validation?).  No mention of availability, limited or otherwise afterwards.  Still, full disclosure in a patent is what's needed most, second only to multiple third-party validations of a device.

@Mark Dansie, you or your team have access to JAP articles?
http://jap.aip.org/resource/1/japiau/v94/i7/p4690_s1?isAuthorized=no

Not sure how many published articles there are about perpetual motion of the second kind up at JAP, that appears to be one however.  Granted totally made-up papers have been published before at other journals (via scigen)... there's at least a chance that article or others have some merit.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: wizkycho on August 28, 2012, 11:51:37 AM
Hi all !
This is not correct theoretically and
It will never be seen on market or enywere else
Nice money, nice commercial approach , nice patent (that is not guarantied to work)
but this has nothing to do with FE or OU.
This is WASTETIME paid by oil companies and such things are all over internet.
 
Turn to FDM from Perihelion Labs - you wan't get any money just knowledge and lot's of Free Energy and OU
 
Igor Knitel
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on August 28, 2012, 07:38:51 PM
It is not surprising to see trolls start showing up.  I see at least a couple so far in this thread.   Or maybe just some seriously depressed former free energy believers.   I'm still seeing WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD IT WILL BE when quenco gets rolling.   I don't think it's wrong to ask the big $ initially as whoever gets in first is going to likely make the megabucks.  And the prices are certainly not set in stone so if they don't take off I'm sure Philip will consider other pricing plans. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: tak22 on August 28, 2012, 08:19:51 PM
@Igor

You seem to be down on everything other than your FDM which you seem to be talking about in every thread I read today. Just a friendly that this practice is not considered polite or helpful, you should be demonstrating real progress and results, which would then attract the support you're looking for.

all the best,

tak
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on August 29, 2012, 12:21:39 AM
 A plot scheme from overunity.com:
first, an inventor announces a wonderful working device, only he cannot show details because of a personal or other concern.Then a group of enthusiasts creates around the inventor; they pet their inventor as much as possible coz they know that inventor is verrrrrrrrrry, verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry fragile; in vain, however, because one day a stranger comes and destroys everything witn only one word: the inventor feels resentful and there is no way to fix that. The otherwise intelligent inventor seems to stop being intelligent at this point; it seems like he cannot understand that that group of enthusiasts are quite different people from this single stranger.
This thread is one example. There are more, anyway.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on September 01, 2012, 11:22:52 PM
http://quentron.com/launch.html (http://quentron.com/launch.html)
Quote
Official Launch 29th October 2012
Palo Alto, California
(limited seating by invitation only)

Patents & scientific papers will be published here immediately following the launch.

We will have a USA representative as of November 2012, postal and phone contact details will be posted here.

A delay by a month, no more Ebay sales and of all countries the USA has been chosen for launch. This is where I start to lose hope.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on September 02, 2012, 01:28:36 AM
I was not going to do any more posting here, and given some of the comments starting to come in that probably is a good idea, however I will defend what I am doing briefly.


You guys that has views of a perfect world where everything just happens according to a divine script are mad, the realities for me is that the single most important thing for the good of all is to get it to mass production as soon as possible.


Slurs against my character bother me not for I know I am as good a person as you could ever hope for, a stream of 100s of Billions will be applied to humanity via a foundation. If quenco was given away and you all saved say $5,000 a year on fuel and power how much would you give to the poor and starving of the World? I am betting only a few of you would give.


I will protect the patent rights of quenco and will get it being mass produced, those that want to lose hope are doing so because the roll out doesn't match your expectations, well sorry about that but before bagging me you all could at least give me a fair go.


Issues of production when talking about a device never built before and a device at a few nm are many, the best intentions in the World cannot overcome all technical issues. Nobody here is interested in 90% resolved issues, you all want quenco in mass production, for sale on ebay and for $1 a kW, you need to be realistic at this point in time.


What I could tell you I cannot for legal reasons alone, after the launch all will become part of some book / biography.


Those friends asking me all the time for quenco update details are not respecting my right to hold my cards close to my chest until the appropriate moment in time, the official launch.


I am packing up my household and moving to the USA to make sure things happen, not because I prefer the USA to Australia, and not because I am selling out. The simple facts are that the USA speaks English and has equipment.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: gravityblock on September 02, 2012, 04:40:05 AM
I was not going to do any more posting here, and given some of the comments starting to come in that probably is a good idea, however I will defend what I am doing briefly.

I agree with the portions in bold above.  However, there is no defense for what you are doing here, since this is an Open Source Research Forum in case you haven't noticed (see the snapshot taken below of the homepage of this website for more details).  You're protecting the patent rights and can't talk for legal reasons.  You have nothing to Open Source, so please go somewhere else or withdraw from any further postings which isn't related to the purpose of this website!

Gravock
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on September 02, 2012, 06:50:23 AM
Hi Philip and thanks for dropping in again.  It's a large and varied group here and some of them are pretty rough.  A lot have been at this a long time and still don't have any good alternate energy sources so some have lost hope and get angry at the things that promise hope then disappear for many varied reasons.   I'm glad to know you are coming to the U.S. but slightly concerned because I believe there are forces here both in private and government that may make things difficult for you.  However I have confidence in your intelligence in dealing with those forces. 

Unlike some who may be trying to squeeze you for info I'm fine (and I think many others are too) with letting it all play out as it will and I will hope for the best and wish you all the success in the world - and your success will be everyone's success (except the powers that be and it's time they let go of their strangulation grip on this world's people).   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: peakprod on September 02, 2012, 08:43:23 AM
Yes their  are many of us that have been trying to get free energy going for years. There are also many of us that have seen inventors bought out and their inventions lost, or even murdered or disappeared. We do not want to see that happen to you Philip.
There are big things happening below the surface at this time. BP and Russia have apparently discovered massive (biological) oilfields (40,000 ft below the surface). They are apparently trying to force the oil price up to $150 a barrel before announcing these oilfields!
There is also much talk of the collapse of the whole western banking system, to be replaced either with a new BRIC based system or a new free republic system.  This could be either very good or very bad for Quenco. Please have  a plan B ready just in case needed, and watch your back constantly.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on September 03, 2012, 05:33:20 AM
The first thing is that I apologize for my comment about posting, what I meant to say is that I had planned not to make any technical posts until after the publication of the patent, what I did post sounds like I was being mean and childish, not the case.


As to what this forum is for, that is a matter for the owner, the posters and the majority. If the only thing on here was open source free energy devices then I have to say it has been a failure to date. If the majority do not want people like me to come here and share my experience on the quenco then I suppose that would become apparent, to date my experience is that most people here are happy that I share what I can. I also want to point out that I have pledged some time ago a good proportion of the money on the OU prize page, so I reckon that gives me as much right as anyone else to post here. 


I also note that I have received a lot of comments here and by email, and those comments have been considered and have aided me in coming up with strategy for roll out. I am looking for a best solution and though the idea of simply giving the technology as open source, or for free is enticing, it just does not add up to be the best thing to do.


I plan to make sure to the best of my ability that quenco will benefit all, and not just the rich. I also want to make sure we do something about CO2 and food security asap, so my plan is to let those that have the money get busy making quenco and themselves a fair and competitive return. I am offering just 100 major licences for high power applications as this class of device requires a lot more capital than the low power quenco, nobody is going to rush in to invest if there are unlimited licences. For low / medium power I am not limiting the licences, this means that everyone that has a killer app for quenco can choose to make the power supply part in house. Of course people like Apple will buy a low power licence and put quenco in all their new products, at the end of the day the new iqphones will be better and cheaper than the present iphones and at the same time a billion bucks will flow to the foundation so that we can fund projects such a power for the poor and food production for the starving.


Rapid roll out of high power to the 100 licences will mean rapid curtailment of CO@ emissions, and we all need that.


For those that come to my defence, thanks, for those that sent me good wishes, thanks, for those that think I am full of BS, that is your right and all I say is that I have never failed to deliver on any technology in the past (I have many products in the marketplace of my invention and design), quenco is real but it is also a difficult thing to hand over until such time as it is can be done without experts.


We have and are doing all we can to overcome technical challenges and I have every confidence we will be in a position to sell quenco on ebay before the end of the year in virtually unlimited amounts (though we hope it will sell for a good price to fund more research).


I admit that some of my prior statements about launch dates and availability of quenco samples have slipped, everything I have said was said in good faith and sometimes things are beyond control. People tell me things and based on that I have made plans, those plans have been subject to revision. The launch date and filing of the patents is not such a flexible thing, they will happen on the dates specified.


Anyway, others will scoff and scorn but all that matters is that we all succeed in this quest.


To those that are upset with me re access to quenco and licences for those without a million spare cash, please wait until after the launch and I can deal with those matters to the satisfaction of most. There will be funds for open source apps, funds for humanitarian uses of quenco, free quenco for researchers and more.........


Regards


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on September 03, 2012, 06:33:36 PM
Thank you Philip!   That all sounds great.  I'm sure there are a whole lot of people here that appreciate hearing from you and are rooting for you to be successful with all this.  Other than a few vocal sour pusses I think the vast majority here are in support of you and like hearing updates.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on September 05, 2012, 05:29:01 PM

Philip, receive our greetings, blessings and good wishes.


The skeptics, negatives, pessimists and the rough, all are useful, since some people like me, tend to believe that there are over unity devices, they always make us set foot on earth, because the truth, so far none of those proposed in this forum has worked, some with only partial success, the best things are examples of unexplained phenomena known to the actual science.


And in the worst examples we have been stolen as many others, and I be in the list of who lost money, believing in these tricksters.


In favor of Philip, I can say that has not asked anyone for money and his designs have been very solid from the standpoint of physics. So I believe in Philip.


Philip, if you have to change a date, is right, is comprehensive, it is a new product and as the people say, "the devil is in the details", but please give us a little attention and write us at least every month,  as Quenco is a device that many have hopes.


All The Best, for all.
ELISHA from Venezuela.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on September 07, 2012, 11:39:05 AM
Fraud or delusion. Alas, I do not see alternatives.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on September 08, 2012, 10:56:05 AM
year 1: 100 * $20,000,000= $2,000,000,000
year 2: 100 * ($20,000,000 + $1,000,000,000) = $102,000,000,000

(ignoring the low power licensees)

That has to be the most optimistic growth of a business in history. Be careful my friend, you are playing with fire now, "their" fire :) . Whoever is "advising" you now is as mad as the Utopian posts you read here.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on September 08, 2012, 04:29:30 PM
If this works as Philip has suggested, then it would surly be worth all of the yearly $102,000,000,000.

The problem is this is $102,000,000,000 that someone else is not going to be getting, and they will not be happy!
You know that accidents can happen at any time! Just by chance. To anyone!

Especially in the US where we are accident prone!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Lakes on September 08, 2012, 04:37:10 PM
Yup, bit of a target with moving to the US...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on September 08, 2012, 07:12:07 PM
I was reminded of a movie with Julia Roberts called 'Duplicity'.  It's sort of a big corporate spy vs. spy movie.  Big corporations trying to get each others secrets by hiring ex-CIA agents.  It's a complex movie (spoilers coming up) with a surprise ending in which the big corporation dupes not only it's competition but fools the ex-CIA agents and spy who plotted to con the big corporation out of $40 Million.  All this was over a supposed formula to cure baldness.   While this is only a Hollywood movie I know they often base their stories on the real world situations with a little embellishment.   It all reminds me of just how far big money will go to protect their business and investors.  Food for thought ....
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on September 09, 2012, 01:47:12 AM
Hi All,


I see some fair comments that I can respond to and one accusing me of fraud which I will not respond to, other than noting that it was said.


We have done a fair amount of calculations with respect to licencing, I have had a lot of input from this forum, and I have posted what seems to me to be a fair offer. The facts are these


If all the High Power Licences are subscribed to, and lets be honest in year 1 we might only have 20 taken up, it would take about 30 years of the minimum production to provide enough Quenco to power the World (assuming the first quenco remains in service forever -but if it is built into cars some will not get recycled). If High power licences are issued we have to make sure they are not sat on by Big Oil.


Imagine if we had no minimum requirement, the status quo seeing Quenco was real would simply buy 100 licences and pay 2 Billion a year in order to continue selling 5 Trillion dollars of fossil fuels, that is a tiny cost to them to continue to pollute the World for profit.


We must assume that once a company installs a $50M production plant it can produce at least 10x the minimum volume required, so if they are being bombarded with requests for Quenco I do not see they have any issue on being required to hit the target in year 2.


As to me being met with an accident, well it is a bit like Steve Job said (I paraphrase), death comes to all, so why worry about the risks of today.


As to some saying I am greedy I simply say that if all goes to plan 99.99% of income goes to a foundation.


Phil


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on September 09, 2012, 02:10:49 AM
Philip,  Good to see you checking in a bit more often again.  I was going to say something about the trolls again but have decided to just ignore them now.   Your numbers sound fine and your plan seems good.  I'm sure if it doesn't take off as planned then you can make changes to move things forward. 
I'd just like you to promise me and everyone here to protect yourself in every way possible.  I can't help but think if anything did happen that your associates or anyone with your info might go into hiding out of fear.  The world needs quenco and quenco needs you.   Until things get into production it would be good to take on the mindset of a double agent spy  ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: peakprod on September 09, 2012, 02:26:57 PM
Philip, licence fees look feasible, I just hope royalties per sq mm and per sq cm are not per layer!


Good Luck and please watch your back ( and the rest of you!)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on September 11, 2012, 12:33:23 AM
For the foundation to work, it must be completely transparent, not only with the decisions, but with all its daily operation, has to be like a glass house. That is possible,  t[/font][/size]here are open source organizations, that are completely transparent. Beware because like[/font][/size] many foundations will spend a fortune in operation, in wages, are slow to act and his staff do business with the contracts granted. And on top of it, do little.

The license price is good, and in my view is something cheap for companies that are going out to produce, such as Intel, which is a company that has a lot of idle capacity, lots of money, operates on low margins 30% gain, and urgently needs a way to grow as processor sales are down.

Philip, make sure your lawyers drafted well the license concept, should be for each "node" as a giant corporation like Intel has about 8 factories, which should be at least 8 licenses, but more because it can be fabricate huge factories and each need 2 or more licenses because they are huge. Beware that point.

What I notice according to the latest information, is that Quenco have limitations in multi-layer version, and that is producing less power than expected ??. [/font][/size]The unlimited license to 1 watt per mm2, we're talking about 5 Volt 20 Ampere per cm2, which is excellent for all types of portable devices but little for a car application.

But excellent for a single application or skate bike, which is the duty of urban mobility and a priority.

All the best for all.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: orbut 3000 on September 11, 2012, 01:28:26 AM
Alll this talk about licenses, foundations, conspiracies makes me wonder if the quanton actually exists. Is there sufficient proof that this quanco thing works, or is it pure fantasy?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Lakes on September 11, 2012, 01:33:27 AM
You`ll have to buy a license to find out... ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: orbut 3000 on September 12, 2012, 01:35:05 AM
I would buy a license for ultra-low power quencows that power single LEDs. My plan is to start a Kickstarter project to mass produce eternal LED-powered light polluters just to piss off hobbyist astronomists. My other business model is based upon the idea to use ultra-low power quencums to revolutionize birth control. (Can't go into details here, but the main idea is to harvest ambient heat and use the energy to do something yet unspecified related to birth control, which will in turn and in the long term rid us of the reliance of free energy) 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on September 15, 2012, 02:48:56 AM
Hi All,


Not that it matters but I just thought it was polite to advise those interested that due to the administrative steps required to get a 2 year Visa for the USA (interviews) we have had to change the launch to 19 Nov from 29 Oct.


I am sure the sceptics would have laughed at the date change.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on September 15, 2012, 07:50:23 AM
The huge machinery of government grinds slowly - no surprise at this.  And since 9/11 it has gotten much slower for anyone to come into the country.   You may want to consider alternate plans just in case it grinds to a halt.   My sincere wishes it all goes well though. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on September 20, 2012, 03:31:28 AM
Hi All,



We have booked our flights and arrive SF in the 2nd week of October.


So far so good re long term visas but we are ok to fly and the Visa waiver program, which means we that if we do not get the green light for the long term business visa we will have to leave the USA about Christmas time, but in any case we would choose to be home with family then so that is OK, we would then return in January to continue the roll out work.


During October I will be working with some researchers to set up US production and I ask if anyone in the SF area has facilities (a secure office and storage) handy to Stanford that they could loan me for a few months, I would be interested to hear from you.


I have received some criticisms re the money side and I just want to repeat my prior statement that I personally do not seek to profit from this beyond a reasonable return for my efforts, the bulk (probably more than 99.9%) of revenues will go to help provide quenco to the poor free of charge, to subsidise it for the not so poor, and to fund research into new exciting science and applications made feasible by quenco.


There will also be plenty of special free licences made available on a case by case basis, and a supply of free quenco tiles to individuals and  organisations on a merit basis.


it has been a while since I added much to the site but in preparation for the launch and after the patent filing (next week) there will be more and more added, so from time to time i invite you to visit, and leave comments.


www.quentron.com


A few people from here have contacted me and we might even meet up for a coffee in Downtown SF.


All the best


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on September 22, 2012, 10:35:31 PM
What specific test equipment and qualifications  would someone need to unambiguously test that Quenco works as you expect it to (a) as it stands as of today and (b) as you expect it to be for your release in November?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 06, 2012, 08:59:55 AM

Hi All,


First let me apologize to quite a few that I have not had time to respond to this last few weeks, I am v.busy but I will get back to you.

This will be my last post from Australia for the foreseeable future.


The PCT patent is now completed and to be filed on Monday (8th October), it is 30 pages with 5 diagrams, an interesting read, it took the patent writer about 2 weeks of study to get his head around the stuff but I think it is easy to understand (now as written).


I have received offers from a few countries in the last weeks and one before to use facilities to assist setting up mass quenco production.


I have planned a few visits in the USA prior to the launch to meet with some people who want to know more in detail and will be signing a few more NDAs next week.


Thanks for the good wishes from many, appreciated.


Sorry Mr Sean, I am not giving away any info prior to launch, if you want to contact me as you have done before privately you can. In any case everyone knows that the only proof, at the launch or anywhere else, that will be taken as proof is a physical device in the hands of a reputable testing expert, and even better with 3 independent persons. So I will leave my reputation open for conjecture but prove my sanity with the proof at the right time. For those that want to say things about lack of information you should go and study patent law before you judge, of course from Monday I can talk more openly and will be extensively during October but probably not here.


Anyone attending the launch will, I promise, be happy with the outcomes.


Cheers to all


Phil



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 06, 2012, 11:05:40 AM
I truly wish and hope you'll be able to bring this out into the world, that's all there's left to say.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 06, 2012, 04:32:05 PM
Hi Friend Philip

My best wishes to you and your family, the eternal God protect you and guide you in the steps you are giving.

On behalf of the entire community of overunity, we thank you for taking the time to write us and keep us informed.

In these times of uncertainty, confict and worldwide crisis, (In the field of inventors)  you are the light of hope in this long tunnel of disappointments.

All The Best,
Your Friend Elisha.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 06, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
Philip,  Great to hear from you again and very glad to hear things are moving along well.   What Elisha said very well is what I feel also - I couldn't have said it better. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 08, 2012, 09:54:24 AM
Thanks Guys, very much appreciated, it is the good wishes that have kept me going these past 13 years on an at time lonely journey.


Though I always believed in what I was doing and why, I admit sometimes it seemed too big a burden and I almost quit in 2009.


When news of my father and Step fathers death hit me just days before Christmas 2011 it devastated me, especially with my Step father who was a great scientist and my biggest supporter over the years, but it was all the more poignant when I had just made the biggest breakthrough (the jump to high power) but had not had time to fully share the results with him, so the support of genuine nice people reminds me that I have as many reasons as ever to have stuck with this long journey.



Speaking of long journeys only hours to go before I have to suffer the long non stop flight from Sydney to LA.


I look forward to the day when I can enjoy a simpler life on a small organic farm with a quenco powered tractor.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 08, 2012, 11:30:17 PM
I am sure your trip will be worthwhile. Safe passage.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: peakprod on October 09, 2012, 11:32:02 AM
Philip, our positive energy is with you, Hope all goes well for you. Feel sure it will. peak (Gold Coast)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 15, 2012, 08:17:38 AM
Thanks for all the good wishes.


So almost a week in San Francisco and I have yet to see the Golden Gate bridge. I have spent a few days at Stanford and it is quite impressive. Everyone is V friendly and I am meeting with various people this coming week re fabrication of quenco at the SNF facility.


Also expect to meet some interesting end users and a few VCs later in the week, there is a lot of networking going on here and it really makes Australia look like a backwater re getting things off the ground, I can see a Quenco factory next door to Tesla cars though they sent me a rude email saying they were not interested, something about horses and water in that reply. I reckon a Qcar factory right next door to Tesla is good for competition.


For once I am optimistic that we will get ahead of the timetable in which case I will take a few days off to go and see those giant trees.


Will update more next week.


Regards Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 15, 2012, 09:03:06 AM
Week one and you're still alive good, and I would be careful of those big trees, US government hired ninja's love them.

Hehe, I'm just kidding of course I hope you appreciate the humor. I'm pretty sure if the launch is a success there will not be a single company in Sillicon Valley that will not be interested in it, including Tesla motors.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 15, 2012, 11:09:14 AM
Tesla motors? Cars that use wheels in the new Quenco Jetson age.
Why drive when you could fly.  :)

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 15, 2012, 01:03:32 PM
Tesla motors? Cars that use wheels in the new Quenco Jetson age.
Why drive when you could fly.  :)

I whole heartedly agree with that.

Some inspiration: http://technabob.com/blog/2012/01/14/megacity-aviation-concept/ (http://technabob.com/blog/2012/01/14/megacity-aviation-concept/)

This could also easily be fully automated through gps, a collision avoidance system and an automatic neighbour detection system embedded in every vehicle.

Quenco can easily revolutionize so much so fast that law makers will go berserk or rather the companies who lobby them through big bucks.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 15, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
Mobile homes in the air, be very careful when you put the cat out, make sure it has a parachute, won't the sparrows be surprised?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 15, 2012, 07:00:53 PM
Philip,  Glad to hear you are safely in the U.S. and things are going well.   Also good to see Tesla motors has gotten so arrogant they don't even consider looking into Quenco.   It will be great to have the last laugh when a Quenco powered car with a Million mile plus driving range comes to market next to their 300 mile driving range car  :)

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on October 15, 2012, 07:56:25 PM
Tesla motors? Cars that use wheels in the new Quenco Jetson age.
Why drive when you could fly.  :)



Air accident hurts more...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 16, 2012, 02:15:44 AM
Most aircraft accident happen when they suddenly become ground vehicles. :(

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 17, 2012, 07:05:47 PM
Hi Phil and Everybody !

Great to know you're okay, and you're already working in this new phase of your life, and Quenco.

Tesla need a lesson in humility, That the plan for a Qcar: Take www.wikispeed.com (http://www.wikispeed.com) people, they want a very efficient car, designed by the crowd, that is durable and interchangeable, but their costs are high due to low manual production.

Give a few million dollars to accelerate what they already do, but based on Quenco, but designed so that the parts have an improved finish and are made ​​by persons not in his studio, but by any auto parts manufacturer, from U.S., China, Australia, etc..

Put the assembly of parts next to Tesla, call it the Qcar, and you will have thousands of manufacturers working for you at little cost. In a few months you will flood the market with Qcar, while Tesla is still struggling to increase production, the power of the masses from design to manufacturing and assembly. All open source, so you'll have a car of quality and very low cost of development and low price for the final consumer, and if someone want to copy, modify, improve, do it, wellcome, another success for you.

We think thats is the future of home appliance, open source design and free manufacture all the world, designed for endure a lifetime, easy to repair, easy to recycle, easy to modify, easy to personalize.

Broli, http://technabob.com/blog/2012/01/14/megacity-aviation-concept/ (http://technabob.com/blog/2012/01/14/megacity-aviation-concept/)  , We have a common mind, Also think that is our next future with Quenco,  http://www.synergyaircraft.com/index.html (http://www.synergyaircraft.com/index.html)   could be a great success, low cost, hi speed, small wing. 

But a mix of both could be a new major revolution, the political division of the world in countries will be obsolete, the shiping of products worldwide will  cost 10x less.

Quenco imply a brave new world!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on October 18, 2012, 01:26:46 PM
Elisha,
how do you calculate 10X less costs when the first market price of the quenco device will be near 500US$/KW ?

Sincerely
                 CdL

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 18, 2012, 11:18:04 PM
Philip seems to be having a ball in California, lets hope he is still happy at Christmas.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 19, 2012, 02:57:15 AM
Elisha,
how do you calculate 10X less costs when the first market price of the quenco device will be near 500US$/KW ?

Sincerely
                 CdL

I think she may have meant that when Quenco becomes common as the energy source in transportation that costs for shipping will be a small fraction of what they are now.  There is a saying amoung big truckers - everything gets there by trucking.  It would be difficult to find anything in retail that is not on a big rig at some point between manufacture and end point customer.  The biggest expense in trucking is fuel.  At today's prices it can easily cost $1000.00 or more to fill up a big rig.  That will get you about 1500 miles for an average truck.  What happens when that expense goes to ZERO after the initial investment?    Same for things that must move by aircraft but aircraft fuel is even more expensive.   If Quenco can be adopted to big rigs early adopters will be able to undercut other truckers rates so it could be a fairly fast changeover to Quenco powered trucks.   I recall Cabover style trucks being by far the most common style in the 80's but when fuel prices started jumping up and Conventional style cabs got 1/2 to 1 mile per gallon better fuel mileage Cabover trucks disappeared rather quickly for just a slightly more fuel efficient design.   It is very rare now to see a Cabover style truck now unless it's just a local runner that doesn't go at highway speeds where the aerodynamics make much less difference.   So I can imagine a fairly fast change over in transportation of goods. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 19, 2012, 07:36:22 AM
I think that many of you are jumping the gun with respect to Quentron.  Normally extracting energy from heat requires two thermal stores that are at different temperatures.  I believe the claim here is that heat itself is converted to electricity without the need for a temperature differential.  There are many follow-up questions that arise from that.

And the claims are quite fantastic with respect to the energy density.  If you have a very high energy density then you need to have a lot of heat to supply to the device, which might not be that easy.  So even if the device actually worked, would a big truck be able to get a continuous flow of heat from the environment to keep it rolling at 120 kmh?  I am not so sure that it would.

We will see if a first wafer ever comes off of a production line in a semiconductor fab and if there are positive results to demonstrate to the world.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on October 19, 2012, 11:42:03 AM
Hello e2matrix,
"Elisha" is an "he" ,a bollvarian male !

Quenco will save money,investment-high dependant but not 10 times less !
The trucks need -quenco as energy source-an electric drive and other changes.

Gasoil for trucks is worlwide also cheaper than common gasoil and some years before I heared from a liquid fuel saver producer that -in reality- there has not been a great interest in gasoil savings.

Average  truck numbers: 150.000 Km per annum and 35.000 Lt. gasoil consume

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 19, 2012, 05:43:35 PM
Hi All,


On the Theory page at

www.quentron.com/theory.html


I have posted some extracts from the full PCT patent that was filed earlier this week. Please note the diagram shows electrons as though they were in a vacuum but remember that in quenco they tunnel and so there actually are only an entry and exit point, but the resultant transform in kinetic energy to potential energy is the same.


I will not post all the patent as modifications may be made after the patent examiners look at it, for example if they object to some wording, but for now those with a reasonable understanding of physics will see how this works as a concept. Of course there are 31 other pages with details of how to build and the materials used therein, but they will not be published until about mid 2013 when the full patent is published by the patent office as an open document.


I have met many interesting and helpful professionals at Stanford, I am working closely with many experts and without exception it is a wonderful place to do physics, and wow............. the labs are simply amazing. Production will not actually get under way until Nov 1 for internal cost reasons but we are hopeful we will have finished a batch of distributable samples well before the launch.


I will drop in here and update you in a few weeks time when we have access to the tools.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 19, 2012, 10:02:57 PM
Wow so we finally get to see quenco's real face. It's simplicity makes it even more exciting!
In a way it's kind of a electron accelerator where maxwell's demon acts as an electron gun and the quantum tunneling as the vacuum. So it's all about the asymmetric insulation layers?

I hope this gets out very fast :).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 20, 2012, 02:24:40 AM
 Don't throw your car away just yet as Quenco could supply the energy for very cheap fuel in a carbon neutral way.

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-air-fuel-synthesis-petrol-future.html (http://phys.org/news/2012-10-air-fuel-synthesis-petrol-future.html)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 20, 2012, 04:08:31 AM
@broli, nice drawing but please read see the extra info at the quentron website, you need to have a low work function emitter for this to make sense.


Also you need to delete the connection to the mesh, the mesh is in fact self biased as it initially starts capturing emitted electrons, primarily from the emitter, this self biasing means there is no external circuitry needed whatsoever.


Having said that I should get you to do the drawings for the website, you have an eloquent touch.


I received a very nice email / post from a PhD in electrical engineering candidate offering to help, the future lies with these people, youth, enthusiasm and imagination.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 20, 2012, 12:36:22 PM
Thanks for the compliment Philip and it would be an honor, you can use anything you like free of charge. I mainly just made the rendition for myself and others here to quickly grasp the concept behind Quenco however to avoid confusion I changed the illustration above to reflect the specs more closely.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 20, 2012, 03:26:22 PM
                        @broli (http://www.overunity.com/profile/broli.11084/)Nice drawing pity you can't show the multilayer's.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 20, 2012, 06:00:35 PM
@trim12 I also did that but I wasn't sure if the current illustration was correct and Philip didn't share the multi layer concept so I would be wrong. But nonetheless below is what I think it would look like :p.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 20, 2012, 06:22:53 PM
Thermionic current at 1,000,000 Amperes = 10^6 A @ room temperature? This is science fiction. Probably you missed a minus sign in the exponent. Thermionic current at room temperature is no more than 10^(-6) A/cm2. There is no known material emitting that high. Are you planning to build 10^12 cm^2 chips? And geometry doesn't matter.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 20, 2012, 07:07:52 PM
@Hollander, I do not mind a challenge to anything I say but you need to crawl back under the rock you just came out of.


The person that said almost 100 years ago that the thermionic current at the surface of a room temperature metal is 1 million amperes was never accused of misplacing a negative sign to an exponent. If you want to know that famous scientists name go and educate yourself.


For those that want solid science to back up the numbers Google Esaki diodes and you will see entries like this


"Esaki diode characteristics with maximum reverse current of 1750 kA/cm2 at 0.50 V"




Note the article states 1750kA/cm2, that is 1.75 million amperes per cm2.

The Esaki diode is a quenco without the mesh.

I will not respond to any other post from this Hollander jerk, he is here just to be nasty.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Groundloop on October 20, 2012, 07:24:53 PM
Here is some information about Tunnel Diodes.

GL.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 20, 2012, 07:30:33 PM
Thanks Groundloop,


Re my last post, to be strictly correct I should say the MIM Tunnel diode is a Quenco without a mesh.


 http://scitechstory.com/2010/11/19/the-mim-diode-another-challenger-for-the-electronics-crown/
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 21, 2012, 02:40:28 AM
@broli

Thanks for the drawings.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 21, 2012, 10:26:13 AM
@broli,


Thanks for the image, I have posted one in the theory section of quentron.com


if you want credit let me know and I will add a note under the image.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 21, 2012, 02:31:16 PM
@Hollander, I do not mind a challenge to anything I say but you need to crawl back under the rock you just came out of.


The person that said almost 100 years ago that the thermionic current at the surface of a room temperature metal is 1 million amperes was never accused of misplacing a negative sign to an exponent. If you want to know that famous scientists name go and educate yourself.


For those that want solid science to back up the numbers Google Esaki diodes and you will see entries like this


"Esaki diode characteristics with maximum reverse current of 1750 kA/cm2 at 0.50 V"




Note the article states 1750kA/cm2, that is 1.75 million amperes per cm2.

The Esaki diode is a quenco without the mesh.

I will not respond to any other post from this Hollander jerk, he is here just to be nasty.


It is a pity that Nobel Laureate O.W. Richardson (the same of Richardson equation of thermionic emission) passed away long time ago. You should talk to him. Or, at least, educate  yourself on thermionic emission. I was talking about Thermionic emission. What you say about Esaki current has nothing to do whit thermionic emission. Even myself is able to generate density current like those cited by you. I let a current of 1 mA pass across a nanosurface of 10^(-9) cm^2 and voilà. Get a nanoresistor of 500 ohm, put on it an *external* bias of 0.5V and get a current of 1 mA. If this current passes across a nanosurface of 10^(-9) cm^2 then I eventually have a current of 1 million Ampere/cm^2. But this has nothing to do with THERMIONIC EMISSION. Go back to college and educate yourself.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 21, 2012, 03:15:51 PM
"Go back to college and educate yourself. "

troll
   
1a. Noun
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

You insult your skeptic laden brethren hollander, have you no shame, what would your wife and children think of this. Schaam jezelf jongen!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 21, 2012, 08:02:13 PM
Yep, it's a given that when things start getting really interesting and a concept is getting ready to go mainstream the trolls show up.   That's when 'Ignore mode' becomes important.  Anything else becomes a waste of energy - no pun intended.  ;)

BTW nice work on the drawings broli! 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 22, 2012, 12:00:17 AM
Companions,

Yes, I'm a Venezuelan male.

Ok, I miss this, for local shipping the reduction will be 2X to 3X. But for air shipping the reduction will be 10X, a Quenco powered plane will save near to 13.000 $ per fly of 1600 miles (3400 galons x 3.8$), This is a great saving, without consider that any electric car or plane is much lighter, less prone to failure, and easier to maintain because it is simpler (this is also a big saving). For local shipping the reduction will be 2X to 3X. Also USA is not the whole world, in the rest of the world the shipping cost is more higher for local transportation.

@MileHigh
Yes, we allready discuss the problem of get heat to quenco, but dont worry, there is a lot of heat in the air for keep a big truck at 120 km/h.

@trim12
If you decide to make synthetic gasoline at low cost with Quenco to keep your car with internal combustion engine, you still have maintenance costs which are not few, oil changes, radiator, pumps, compressors, belts, go to fill in gas stations, etc.    So many problems, best you put an electric kit with Quenco, save weight and problems. They are $ 10,000 per Quenco 50KVA, + $ 4.000 electric motor , + $ 4.000 labor ~= $ 20,000 total, and do not pay more in gasoline, or maintenance, just the brakes.

@Phil
Excellent news ! keep the hard work.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 22, 2012, 12:26:01 AM
@broli
Great drawing, excellent !

@hollaste

The problem of our society, and the source of our crisis is egoism, we just think about ourselves and do not take into account at all to others.

If you want to contribute to this forum, you are welcome, but in a constructive dialogue, respecting other points of view.

We know that the problem of the board, is not have a summary of all the points we made, so we understand that you unknow certain discussions and have doubt, but this group has been through your doubts and made discussions and calculations. Even some like myself have more than three years following the work of Philip Hardcastle.

Philip is an inventor that without seeking any reward,  very kindly shared their ideas, designs and even part of his life.  At no time has asked for money, and has proven to be very serious in its approach and its engineering is very solid.  He has spent time answering our questions and comments.

Neither Philip nor any of us are perfect, and we can have errors, but only in an atmosphere of cordiality and mutual respect we can interact.

We thank you and all the new ones that keep the atmosphere of cordiality and respect that we all deserve. And if you have doubts, with humility, we will gladly answer them.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 22, 2012, 03:04:58 AM
Elisha:

Quote
@MileHigh
Yes, we allready discuss the problem of get heat to quenco, but dont worry, there is a lot of heat in the air for keep a big truck at 120 km/h.

It sounds highly unlikely to me.  Have you done the research and the calculations?  If not, why don't you try doing them?  It would be a very useful exercise because a mistake people often make is that they take things for granted.

I will just make some preliminary comments for you.  I will guess that an all-electric 18-wheeler truck at 120 km/h needs about 25 kilowatts of continuous electrical power to maintain that speed and run the lights and power other things, etc.   Going up a hill it might require 75 kilowatts but let's not worry about that for starters.

So, what is the heat capacity of air at a typical humidity of say 40%.   If you say you will cool the air by 15 degrees Celcius to extract the heat from the air, what airflow do you need to sustain in cubic meters per second to extract 25 kilowatts of heat?

Imagine the truck has an air inlet of 2 meters x 2 meters, i.e.; 4 square meters.  How fast in meters per second does air have to flow into the 4-square-meter air inlet to extract 25 kilowatts of heat assuming that the air exits 15 degrees Celcius cooler?

My gut feel right now is telling me that it won't work, but I could be wrong.  If anybody is interested in doing the Internet searches and gathering up all of the data and crunching the numbers then more power to you.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 22, 2012, 10:42:24 AM
Dear all,

I am usually a polite person and I have only expressed my honest criticism on some well known facts (on which, by the way, I have a very long professional experience). What do you think about Hardcastle reply?

"Hollander, I do not mind a challenge to anything I say but you need to crawl back under the rock you just came out of.
... If you want to know that famous scientists name go and educate yourself.
...
I will not respond to any other post from this Hollander jerk, he is here just to be nasty."

Do you think this is a polite reply? My post was a technical one. His post has been an humoral and unfriendly one.
 
Issue closed.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TheCell on October 22, 2012, 12:11:43 PM
A practical example would be a benefit for all believers.
http://www.brighthub.com/environment/renewable-energy/articles/82398.aspx (http://www.brighthub.com/environment/renewable-energy/articles/82398.aspx)



Quote from the article:
It will be important to note that the ammeter used in the circuit should
be able to indicate both the positive and the negative current polarity
of the diodes under test.


But if I look at the I(U) diagram , I never see current negative, there is a negative slope ok!
Now must the 'read between the lines mode be switched on':
...When the temprature is high enough a negative current will occur
   and heat will be converted to electricity ?!
...And then it makes sense when he states:
Also, the whole operation needs to be performed at an ambient temperature
that’s below 8 degrees Celsius ambient temperature.
(Sorting the T-diodes out that show an oscillation at 94 MHz)


Which leaves the question: is there a minimum ambient temprature required
for operation in heat to electricity mode.
Mr. Hardcastle : is this setup mentioned in the link valid and will show
the function principle of your inverntion?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on October 22, 2012, 03:37:10 PM
"Go back to college and educate yourself. "

troll
   
1a. Noun
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

You insult your skeptic laden brethren hollander, have you no shame, what would your wife and children think of this. Schaam jezelf jongen!

With this "troll" description, practically all forums are forums of trolls: any disagreement falls under the "troll" meaning. This definition comes from this site: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll)

and is only one of its kind. All other definitions are more complex and thus their meaning is definitely different from the above one. Even the suggestion to reeducate should not be considered as an insult if the opponent thinks an example is improper.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 22, 2012, 05:24:45 PM
@ElishaThink of the millions of cars there are and all the jobs that are involved with them in a fragile world economy the rapid introduction of Quenco powered cars might cause even more chaos in my opinion

Cars powered by electricity need electric motors which have there on environmental problems, I personally, although Phil thinks I am being silly prefer Quenco powered compressed air engines in the wheels of vehicles or even steam. Think about it Quenco can both heat and condense water.
Philip is at the cutting edge of technology so the failure rate of his early chips will most probably exceed 90% but as long as he has a few perfect ones to test the Quenco era the world so  needs will be born. :D   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 22, 2012, 06:21:29 PM
Dear all,

I am usually a polite person and I have only expressed my honest criticism on some well known facts (on which, by the way, I have a very long professional experience). What do you think about Hardcastle reply?

"Hollander, I do not mind a challenge to anything I say but you need to crawl back under the rock you just came out of.
... If you want to know that famous scientists name go and educate yourself.
...
I will not respond to any other post from this Hollander jerk, he is here just to be nasty."

Do you think this is a polite reply? My post was a technical one. His post has been an humoral and unfriendly one.
 
Issue closed.

Issue closed?  LOL - You are not a moderator here but nice try.  And yes I'm disregarding my own suggestion to ignore you only because I think you believe you are not trolling.  Your first post here to Philip came off as rude, condescending , disrespectful and contentious.  It's the way a bad teacher might address an 8th grader in math class.  I suspect you have not grasped the nuances of communication on forums.   Maybe it's a cross cultural and or language issue.   Or maybe it's just a case of blurting out your feelings on a subject where you think you have superior knowledge and where being anonymous without concern for the consequences of your post leads you to believe there will be none.   Maybe you missed that Philip has put many years of work into this, he is a real physicist and so what are the odds he missed a minus sign in an equation.  That's just downright insulting.  Knowing the overall situation I don't see how anyone could have taken your post any other way than insulting and contentious.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 22, 2012, 06:44:20 PM
Apologies Elisha,  I was not sure and was just best guessing gender based based on similar names in North America.  Thanks for your contributions here.   I'm still leaning towards your original estimates of operating costs of a vehicle for transportation.   Other than initial cost - and you have initial cost on a vehicle whether it is gas, electric or quenco style free electric - the largest cost of getting down the road is fuel except if it's quenco based.  I imagine a scenario in transportation where large companies would be grabbing up quenco based trucks as fast as they could to beat out the competition in pricing their goods.  This would result in a shift from owner-operator based trucking to more company owned trucks with companies paying the usual lower wages to company drivers.  A fuel based truck could easily be 6 times more expensive to run per mile than a fuel-less based truck everything else being equal. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on October 22, 2012, 08:19:18 PM
Dear all,



@hollander, I'm definitely with you. If anybody here is rude, it's the host and his clappers. I base this opinion after reading all your posts in this thread.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 23, 2012, 12:07:00 AM
@trim12
Yes, the world economy is very bad, because the world economy model, is addicted to debt, and is now in intensive care by debt overdose. And to make matters worse, doctors prescribed doses more debt. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (http://www.usdebtclock.org/), that is crazy, insane.

The job problem, is in its definition, we dont need jobs to produce more products that end up in the trash, contaminating soil and seas.  We need jobs, is to divide up among the entire population, the manufacture, the things that we need in society, so each person would work a few hours a day and we would have everything we need. Of course this requires an economic model that is not based on debt.

Quenco is a new energy source, so disruptive, which forced in practice to a new model of economy, jobs, and society.

@e2matrix
Yes, imagine the year 2016, You can buy a Quenco powered truck and also is available a Google Driverless car, marriage them, then you have something very disruptive.  This will be a very exciting time; more jobless, or less time to work and more time for family and personal grow up.   This depend of the model of the economy in 2016.

@TheCell
The minimum ambient temperature required for operation in heat to electricity mode, if our memory is good in the words of philip is -40°C, but top electric current will lower 15%.

@Groundloop
The experiment in the papers that you share, ¿are real?, ¿is possible to do the circuit and convert heat to electric current using tunnel diodes?

Thanks.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 23, 2012, 03:00:18 AM
Obviously a world with working Quenco can solve its food and water problems but will that just mean a vast jump in population?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 24, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
I saw that Hardcastle updated his Theory page. He posted the following picture describing one of his previous experiments (Pentode tube).

I am not a provocateur, I just want  to understand. Did you make a control experiment to exclude other factors? For instance,  by performing the same measurement, with a bulb without thermionic layer? By direct experience, I know that high sensibility ammeters detect currents (pA or even uA) even when the circuit is open, above all when high temperatures are involved. This should be a common sense check (and mine is a common sense question).

Welcome replies are:

Silence

No, I didn't.

Yes, I did and found nothing

No insulting reply is welcome. Thanks.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 24, 2012, 06:09:37 PM
hollander,  what is a "high sensibility ammeter" ?   Can we assume you meant high sensitivity ammeter?   I also do not understand your question about doing a test without a 'thermionic layer'.  I don't see any reference on that page to a thermionic layer in that test with the pentode.   Are you saying to do the test without any heat?  If so don't you think that his reason for adding the capacitor was to establish a base line by keeping out stray emf?   
     One other question for you.  You seem intent on believing he has nothing of interest here.  Ask your self this.  Would a physicist move half way around the world to meet with other scientists at Stanford and high tech companies to start production on this if he had nothing real?  And doing all that without asking anyone for money?  Yes he will be selling licensing for this but who is going to put up a Million dollars or more without knowing for certain it is a viable device?   My 'High Sensibility meter' says NO, no one would do that unless it is a viable device. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on October 24, 2012, 08:33:37 PM
TheCell,

That is an interesting article.
I believe that setup fully describes the operating principal of a quenco tile.  It looks like a few features will be added to the quenco tiles that increase the ability to perform the conversion, but the principal is the same.

http://www.brighthub.com/environment/renewable-energy/articles/82398.aspx (http://www.brighthub.com/environment/renewable-energy/articles/82398.aspx)

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: wideyed_tutank on October 25, 2012, 06:10:03 AM
@Hollander,


Hello my friend.  Looks like you are missing the point that the little experiment provided the leap of faith to Quenco.  Just saying that any useful control experiment will be better done on a Quenco; not on the pentode if you catch my drift.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: aaron5120 on October 25, 2012, 06:25:23 AM
Hi Lumen,
I read the article about using tunneling diodes to convert heat to electricity, and it seems the FE community let this info went ignored long time ago. I personally think if you can convert direct sunlight heat to 1.2V 100mA DC with 7 pieces of tunneling diodes( which is not an expensive component), this is quite impressive.
Even without the refinements of quenco, which are quite remarkable to ay the least, I think we can start experimenting with off-the-shelf components to replicate the efects discovered by those scientists who wrote the article.
What you say, lumen?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 25, 2012, 03:39:45 PM
hollander,  what is a "high sensibility ammeter" ?   Can we assume you meant high sensitivity ammeter?

Obviously, yes. 

Quote
I also do not understand your question about doing a test without a 'thermionic layer'.  I don't see any reference on that page to a thermionic layer in that test with the pentode.   Are you saying to do the test without any heat?  If so don't you think that his reason for adding the capacitor was to establish a base line by keeping out stray emf?

One of the Pentode electrode must be covered with a thermionic coating in order to emit electrons (collected by the second electrode). I have a Keithely 614 (high sensitivity electrometer) and it gives a reading of pA and even uA when the terminals are connected to some capacitor. One must be extremely careful when performing such kind of measurements.
   
Quote
One other question for you.  You seem intent on believing he has nothing of interest here.  Ask your self this.  Would a physicist move half way around the world to meet with other scientists at Stanford and high tech companies to start production on this if he had nothing real?  And doing all that without asking anyone for money?  Yes he will be selling licensing for this but who is going to put up a Million dollars or more without knowing for certain it is a viable device?   My 'High Sensibility meter' says NO, no one would do that unless it is a viable device.

I agree with you. Let's wait to see whether someone is willing to put up a Million dollars. As far as you know, is there a person willing to do that? My 'High Sensibility meter' says that Hardcastle will have hard time to justify why his invention does not work.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 25, 2012, 05:23:44 PM
@hollander.

Philip was right with you.

You are expressing a negative quality in you, and you want to pollute us with your negativity. Your negative attitude is not welcome in this forum, but you are welcome.

If you have positive qualities express it, but not express negative here.

Currently Philip gave us an experiment, that is reach up to us to check and see if it's true or not. and accept that you make factual statements, based on experiments.  And as you know from quantum mechanics, the experimenter influences the results of an experiment, and with negativity, we will see only negative results, with a positive attitude may not get the desired results but we can discover a new reality, perhaps more valuable than we are looking for.

If you correct your attitude, and you become objective, and express the results of your own experimentation, you are welcome, but if you keep your negativity, thank you not write anything, because you damage the warm atmosphere of camaraderie in this room.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 25, 2012, 06:04:02 PM
Hi All,


There certainly is some quantum weirdness creeping in to conversations. LOL


I always used a moving coil meter (a meter that is 0-10uA and is the simple unpowered type device that can only respond to ACTUAL current) as well as a Keithley for confirmation and low current. I did all the things that should be done for an experiment. I also repeated the experiments with devices in series, back to back, and in parallel (5). I also had scientists do the test independently. The outputs were as predicted and fully support my claim that it violates Kelvin. So that then brings me to a guy that comes in here and constantly wants to smear my work, what is his motivation? When I first saw his post I thought he must be some sick individual, the last post only seems to confirm that he has some issues. What I cannot get is these people that presented with a $10 challenge refuse to do it but would rather seek to get everyone to abandon a breakthrough.


@ Hollander, do the $10 experiment and report your results here, you have my word that it works and that it is a violation but if you do it and it does not work then I will pay for your time and expenses plus send you a gift voucher for 1000 Euro (I assume by the name you are from Holland).


As to the other Esaki experiment someone came up with here, by all means entertain yourself and experiment, but I do not see that it is in any way Quenco, so I would rather you did not label it as being equivalent unless you can explain to me why.


Thanks as usual to those that have such kind words towards me.


At Stanford we have resolved a production issue and have agreed to make 10,000 1mm2 devices as a run, I expect about a 5% yield which should equate to 500 devices. The reasoning for this is that we have poor knowledge of Pt metal nucleation, we do not know exactly on what cycle it will take off so we know over the 10,000 on some it will not, on some it will have too much. We are confident that 5% will quickly rise to 99.9%, this is all a bit like making ic's.


We have also solved flat metal substrate issues, there is experience at Stanford of doing Silver on polished Silicon (atomically sooth) and then etching away the silicon thus leaving atomically smooth silver. Everything else all agree is easy to do and in fact we have already done them in Australia.


I am a bit surprised not one person from the quentron website readers seems to have done the $10 experiment, it is such a significant thing that I would have expected dozens of science labs, universities and such to have raced to do it, sort of proves that a challenge to the 2nd law is so taboo that even secret experimenters are shy. I mean it is less than $10 to be part of history, to be one of a handful to have violated the 2nd would be bragging rights, am I right?


Anyone reading this who is at a Uni or has access to a lab the challenge I put to Hollander applies.


I'll be back next week with an update.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 25, 2012, 07:22:54 PM
Thanks for the continued updates Philip.  I get more excited every time I hear the progress being made.   I think much of the physics of this is over my head or at least I think it would take a lot of studying for me to get a grasp of it.   It sounds like hollander may know a bit more about some of this however I think the issues coming up are probably related to the same old paradigm.  Everyone fully believed the Earth was flat, man could not fly and so on until it was right 'in their face' undeniable proof.  There are a lot of ego's at stake here.  A whole lot of scientists are going to feel stupid when this becomes 'in their face' with undeniable proof.  So their will be many grasping at straws to hold on to the old reality. 
      In a way it seems there are always two classes of people you find on energy forums.  There are the believers - who believe in a growing bigger reality of a better world.  Or you could call them eternal optimists.  I probably fit in there.  Then there are the non-believers and eternal pessimists.  They want to stomp on everyone's flowers.  They hold on to a current unchanging reality with a near death grip.  They are afraid of change.   I believe we create the reality we focus on.  You empower that which you focus on.  Think seriously about that and you will see many examples.   I choose to focus on what a wonderful world it will be with Quenco.   ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on October 26, 2012, 02:23:43 AM
Oops, minus 5 points for lumen!
 
Philip,
I apologize for indicating the diode array is similar to quenco. I will not indicate why since I am sure you know more about the similarities or differences than I do.
 I cannot verify if this circuit performs as described but thought it interesting in that if it does operate, would serve only as an another indicator of the failure in the second law of thermodynamics.
 
I am very happy to hear quenco success is so near!

 
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 26, 2012, 08:14:44 AM
@Elisha

Let me be more positive:

We have only to wait less than one month. And then we will see.

@Philip

I wish you to succeed, but my gut feelings tell me that if we are lucky (to be able to demonstrate the violation of the second law), we only get a tiny power output. Useful to prove the violation. Useless from a practical point of view.
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on October 26, 2012, 08:16:15 AM
We have only to wait less than one month. And then we will see.

Amen to that.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 26, 2012, 10:29:19 AM
Hi all,


Special posting, Hollander has made me somewhat sad and angry, I offered him a prize to prove me wrong and he comes back with words meant to undermine and white ant my work and efforts. I want the movers and shakers to attend my launch but when people are not prepared to open their mind it seems so hard. So I have posted an offer to Universities to urgently do the experiment then I will be free of the negative nigglers that seek to hinder progress. I am the first to admit that my work is a long way from finished, I need people to attend who have the ears of industrialists so that we can get a team working on mass production, if my launch is attended by people who just have an interest but no influence then I might as well just post it on you-tube.


I have offered a $10,000 prize to a reputable university to do what will take them just a few hours, doing all the necessary controls etc. So if you know someone at Uni or are someone from a Uni pass my message on. The offer is 100% genuine.


I tell you that my feeling is that people out there seem to want me to fail, only here have I found some good vibes.


It (the problem of energy) is everyone's problem, so I ask that all here do their bit and engage the enemy, the closed and arrogant minds of people that cannot seem to understand that breakthroughs in science are almost always breakthroughs that nobody expected or believed. Of course you can do nothing and leave it to me to do every bit of the hard work, but is that fair? I have not asked for money, just for your help in communicating my work and offer to the wider public.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: ramset on October 26, 2012, 01:54:25 PM
Phil
 
Your test seems so simple .. I have access to persons here that help me all the time with measurements and testing  to acceptable industry standards.
 
Besides the high temp oven [have a few],is there any other piece of equipment
required ?[besides volt... temp meters]
Could you give a quick list of equipment?
 
I would be happy to run this test absolutely no charge,it could be run to
the level of a testing lab .
 
The fellows that will be checking my protocol and results are the types that can interpret the data and get it into university quickly.
 
?
thx
Chetkremens@gmail.com
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 26, 2012, 02:19:29 PM
Quote
In classical thermodynamics, the laws of thermodynamics are basic postulates applicable to any
system involving measurable heat transfer. In statistical thermodynamics, the second law is a
consequence of unitarity in quantum theory[citation needed]. In classical thermodynamics, however,
the second law defines the concept of thermodynamic entropy, while in statistical mechanics entropy
is defined from information theory, known as the Shannon entropy. In such instances, the second law
of thermodynamics is an expression of the tendency that over time, differences in temperature,
pressure, and chemical potential equilibrate in an isolated physical system so as to result in the
natural entropic dissolution of the system itself. From the state of thermodynamic equilibrium, the
law deduced the principle of the increase of entropy and explains the phenomenon of irreversibility
in nature. The second law declares that perpetual motion machines are impossible.
.
.
.
Kelvin statement

Lord Kelvin expressed the second law as "It is impossible, by means of inanimate material agency, to
derive mechanical effect from any portion of matter by cooling it below the temperature of the
coldest of the surrounding objects.[7] This may be restated as[4]
“     No process is possible in which the sole result is the absorption of heat from a reservoir
and its complete conversion into work.     â€

This means it is impossible to extract energy by heat from a high-temperature energy source and then
convert all of the energy into work. At least some of the energy must be passed on to heat a low-
temperature energy sink. Thus, a heat engine exhibiting 100% efficiency is thermodynamically
impossible. This also means that it is impossible to build solar panels that generate electricity
solely from the infrared band of the electromagnetic spectrum without consideration of the
temperature on the other side of the panel (as is the case with conventional solar panels that
operate in the visible spectrum).

Note that it is possible to convert heat completely into work, such as the isothermal expansion of
ideal gas. However, such a process has an additional result. In the case of the isothermal
expansion, the volume of the gas increases and never goes back without outside interference.

I don't see how the $10 test using the TV tube violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics.  Perhaps someone could explain this?  From my perspective the Second Law is just fine.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on October 26, 2012, 03:25:18 PM
Hi Philip,

I think your doing an awesome job.

No matter what you do in life there is always going to be resistance. Just keep pushing through.

Validation will validate.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 26, 2012, 07:29:16 PM
Hi Philip,  I will contact a University near me which I have heard was doing some research into alternative energy.  I was told they were very interested in projects along that line.  If they show interest I'll put them in contact with you or give you a contact there. 

I think hollander has moved back into the Troll zone.  Compared to a lot of other threads on this nearly un-moderated forum (Wild Wild West compared to most forums) this message thread has been relatively troll free if that's any comfort. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on October 26, 2012, 08:08:30 PM


Thanks for the support and good words.

 
Thanks for the quick responses.

 
@ramset, I thank you most sincerely for your generous offer, and I have no doubt you can do the experiment to a high standard, but I have a reservation in that who will believe you any more than people will me? Will your data and vid be backed up by a recognised university?

 
Perhaps the answer is that you have offered to do it without the challenge money so another university can still take that to then validate your validation of my original work, and that of my independent.

 
The best outcome would be to have by early November 2 independent posted replications and then a news report so that at the launch we will be swamped with Big companies ready to get things going.

 
As to equipment I would like to keep it really simple but if you want to make it sophisticated then you should consult your protocol people.

 
A good basic experiment would be

 
At least 2 of the pentode devices, more would be better.

 
A sensitive un-powered moving coil meter (10uA preferred), I see little need to do pA or nA measurements when the device is only warm as the convincing proof is when you have 3uA, however if you choose to you can see the steady rise of output that accelerates rapidly near 500C, as predicted by calculation.

 
Back to back thermocouples to prove near zero temperature gradient across the devices when in the oven.

 
Video, of course.

 
Lab grade Oven (digitally controlled) capable of less than a degree of temp swing.

 
A large thermal load to mount the device in (say a 10lb block of metal with a cavity to put the device in) this gives a stable temp and guarantees no thermal gradients even if the oven has small fluctuations.

 
Lab Hot termination block for wires from the device.

 
Lab Cold termination block for wires to the meters.

 
High temp wire of your choice but all the wires must be made from the same piece so that there is no possibility of claims it is acting as a thermocouple.

 
You can do the null tests with
A wire link of any metal to replace the device under test.
A similar device but with the vacuum broken thus proving the effect is thermionic.
Of course any other tests you care to do.

 
You can also do identical devices in parallel to show the increase in current output by an integer multiple, this also proves that it is not RF but to satisfy the skeptics who claim all things as likely except a 2LV you will need to have care to show there is no RF, I used appropriate screening of wires from the oven to the meters, I suggest you do that and also have the ability to add RF capacitors (non polarized) to show no change to current. An oscilloscope also that can be connected to show no RF and that the output does not change when caps in and out. I say that is sufficient but I am happy if other checks are added, this should be simple so that it is also easy to understand.

 
There will be people that say this is too basic, let them tell us what reasonable extra things should be done, things like saying the device should have oxide coating removed from the cathode are asking a lot for doing such is almost impossible.

 
What the skeptics are never prepared to do is to consider that the results are not achievable by any other means, so it can be argued that doing the same test with deliberate temperature gradients across the device (in at least 3 directions) and seeing that the output does not change is a valid experimental test. Also it is necessary to hold the device for some time to show there is no fluctuation which the hardest skeptic will say is needed to prove it is not chemical, this idea of chemical is silly as it is a device that shows output to be directly tied to thermionic and it is a device that is probably 30+ years old, nonetheless the more we can tick off the objections of Uber skeptics the better.

 
Some have suggested it is because of radioactive cathode materials, this is not a possible mechanism and though a calculation of the device material quantity would prove that even if it were radioactive that could only give a pA if however you had the ability to give a device to a lab to actually check the cathode's material it would not hurt. You can appreciate there is a point where it all becomes too complex and some skeptics will still say it is not possible. Which is why I never pushed the valve experiment in preference to presenting the Quenco, but I want people to attend and so the Valve test should at least make some people pay attention.


In a sensible world the valve test should be front page by itself, funny how cold fusion had labs all round the World doing expensive experiments but this test needs to be pushed.


Thanks again to you ramset for your offer.


Phil 

 

 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on October 27, 2012, 06:04:27 AM
Would a physicist move half way around the world to meet with other scientists at Stanford and high tech companies to start production on this if he had nothing real?  And doing all that without asking anyone for money?  Yes he will be selling licensing for this but who is going to put up a Million dollars or more without knowing for certain it is a viable device?   My 'High Sensibility meter' says NO, no one would do that unless it is a viable device. 

Is this guy a physicist? It seems not.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 27, 2012, 07:40:58 AM
Is this guy a physicist? It seems not.
Qwert,  Why would you say that?  It seems your posts have taken an unusual turn lately.  Maybe it's that Quantum weirdness Philip mentioned - LOL.   I can show you a post where Philip states he is a physicist or you could just search his posts on overunity.com.   Why would he say that if he is not a physicist?   Just a Google search will show that he is a physicist unless you consider a person who was a senior geophysicist for one of the world's largest companies to not be a physicist (I think he is also an electrical engineer).   Sounds to me like he has even more qualifications for a project like this than a regular physicist.   I would urge you to read this entire page including comments:
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3125

If for any reason that page disappears I will post a copy on a web site I have unless Philip has any objection to it. 

head shake smiley goes here   ....    ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on October 27, 2012, 10:28:40 AM
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3125 (http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3125)

Reading above mentioned ZPE Energy link, Philip suggests he is no more than a scientific amateur, not associated with any scientific laboratory: he gives only his private address and not any scientific title by his name. There is a lot of people in Australia named this name (by Google). Philip himself in his very first post on this forum mentions that he is associated with science and physics through his whole life but he does not say what does that mean; it could be that somebody in his family is a science person and he assists him/her his whole life.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 28, 2012, 07:38:18 AM
 :o     I don't know what you consider to be a physicist but the the statement "I am a physicist" as I read in one of his posts seems easy enough to understand.   Also the statement in that article that "I was a senior geophysicist" and this was for a company with a value of over 400 Billion dollars would seem to clearly indicate someone with a degree in physics and probably more.   I'm not going to pursue this sort of distracting nonsense any more.  Something has clearly changed here.  I'll just say for everyone else reading this that things like this always seem to happen as something big gets close.   Draw your own conclusions as to why ....
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 28, 2012, 03:18:06 PM
e2matrix, I am not sure if you have the scientific background to read between the lines on the technical aspects of the things you see around here.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you said that you have been following this kind of stuff for 20 years.  Your type is the type that wants to believe first and ask questions later.

I have read the recent posts by Philip and followed some of the links and I have to agree with Qwert.  I noticed that his references to the electrical characteristics of the device indicate that he is an amateur.  That doesn't jive if you are supposed to be the one developing this technology.  A geophysicist may only have the most rudimentary understanding of electronics from one or two first year courses.

The other issue that struck me was one of the proposals for rolling out a first product - free energy batteries for hearing aids.  Here is where a lot of people don't have the "vision thing."  Can you imagine a domestic scene at home where the husband is reading the daily paper and says, "Look honey, there is an article about a company that is selling batteries for hearing aids that never need replacing?"  Do you think that's real?  Just another innovative product like a 5G cell phone?

If this was real then it would be the biggest news story of the 21st century and every news site would have it plastered on the front page.  The world would change overnight, it would be the most shocking thing the world has ever seen.  And you guys had a discussion about the first killer application, hearing aid batteries, in all seriousness.  More importantly, Philip talked about it in all seriousness.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on October 28, 2012, 06:21:45 PM
e2matrix, I am not sure if you have the scientific background to read between the lines on the technical aspects of the things you see around here.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you said that you have been following this kind of stuff for 20 years.  Your type is the type that wants to believe first and ask questions later.
I wouldn't word it quite that way.  I am the type that believes someone is innocent until proven guilty.  The type that assumes someone is honest until proven dishonest.  And the type that assumes someone has some real valid device until proven it is not.  To assume otherwise is to risk crushing the life out of someone who already has a big uphill battle in proving a new concept or disproving a long accepted law or theory.  If it is not a valid concept it will fail on it's own without a bunch of people here making it more difficult for someone on this already nearly impossible path.   



Quote
I have read the recent posts by Philip and followed some of the links and I have to agree with Qwert.  I noticed that his references to the electrical characteristics of the device indicate that he is an amateur.  That doesn't jive if you are supposed to be the one developing this technology.  A geophysicist may only have the most rudimentary understanding of electronics from one or two first year courses.

The other issue that struck me was one of the proposals for rolling out a first product - free energy batteries for hearing aids.  Here is where a lot of people don't have the "vision thing."  Can you imagine a domestic scene at home where the husband is reading the daily paper and says, "Look honey, there is an article about a company that is selling batteries for hearing aids that never need replacing?"  Do you think that's real?  Just another innovative product like a 5G cell phone?

If this was real then it would be the biggest news story of the 21st century and every news site would have it plastered on the front page.  The world would change overnight, it would be the most shocking thing the world has ever seen.  And you guys had a discussion about the first killer application, hearing aid batteries, in all seriousness.  More importantly, Philip talked about it in all seriousness.
Milehigh,  Your reputation as a non-believer and basher of almost everything precedes you.  You were almost banned at the   liberal OverunityResearch.com forum because people were tired of all the negativity.   I don't know if you are just a born skeptic of everything or whether you are paid to do this or if you have just chosen 'save us all from our foolishness' - LOL.   But I'll just leave it at we will likely never agree.   I could readily argue your statements above but I'll not waste my time on it because I've seen the arguments go on endlessly with you in other threads and other forums. 
 I completely understand his reasoning for getting something small started as a validation of his device but as I said I won't argue that or anything else.   I will add I don't really know what degrees Philip has but just based on his post above it would seem he has an extensive knowledge of physics and of testing procedures needed to validate this.  I've had college physics and electronics and a Ham radio license but I am far from being an electrical engineer or physicist.   However it was stated in that article I pointed to that Philip was also an electrical engineer.   So disbelieve what ever you want - it's your right   :P
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on October 28, 2012, 06:39:27 PM
Google "what is / who is a physicist" or "physicist definition" or something like that. According to one, since I'm just studying it, I am a physicist despite that I don't understand a word in a professional handbook: 'A physicist is someone who studies or completes research into physics (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-physics.htm)'. ( http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-physicist.htm (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-physicist.htm) )
But according to another statement of the same link, I'm not: 'There are three items required to become a physicist: post-secondary education, graduate studies, and working experiences as a physicist.'
 I don't consider "a physicist", "a scientist" a guy who expresses his anger when his work is challenged and who expects applause only. If I tell you that I am God, will you believe me? You should, b'coz I told so... 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 28, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
e2matrix, there is no need to play the MIB card all the time.  Words posted on a forum cannot stop someone from advancing their project.

I am just telling you the truth as I see it and I have 30+ years worth of experience in electronics to draw on to help me form my impressions and opinions.  As a general comment, you would be wise to factor in the advice and suggestions from people that have more experience in something that you don't have experience in.

You are free to disbelieve myself and Qwert.  If this story ends up not panning out, perhaps you could acknowledge that myself and Qwert were on the right track.

Finally, no takers to explain why the $10 TV tube experiment overturns the 2nd LoT?  I personally don't see that happening at all.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on October 28, 2012, 11:31:43 PM
@milehigh
@Qwert

This is for alternative sources of energy, philip give us a simple test. Do you have something to say about this test?.

If you dont have anything to say about science, please go away, dont waste our time.   And all your negative talk, will return to you, in multiple ways!

@everyone
This next week I will try to make the test of philip, but i just can find used "not new" pentode in my country.  I will talk about my results.

The love of the eternal God be with everybody.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 29, 2012, 12:20:33 AM
Elisha:

I have have said something about the test with the pentode.  There is a claim that it violates the 2nd LoT.  So I am asking for the explanation from anyone as to precisely how and why it violates the law.  From my perspective the law is not being violated.  It's very dangerous to not question things that you are told.  So, can anyone respond to my questions?  Remember, it's not me that is making the claim.

No one in the thread has challenged the notion that the pentode tube test violated the 2nd LoT except me.  That implies that most or all of you accept what you are being told, but can anyone explain why?

I do indeed have some things to say about science and I ask you to respect the ideas of freedom of speech and plurality of opinion.  Those ideas are more important than your desire to silence myself and Qwert.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on October 29, 2012, 12:39:46 AM
I am just telling you the truth as I see it and I have 30  years worth of experience in electronics to draw on to help me form my impressions and opinions.  As a general comment, you would be wise to factor in the advice and suggestions from people that have more experience in something that you don't have experience in.

Finally, no takers to explain why the $10 TV tube experiment overturns the 2nd LoT?  I personally don't see that happening at all.

Someone with your electronics experience could easily do the $10 experiment and produce current from an isothermal environment. (which does overturn PART of the second law)
 
Or you could do the experiment that was posted by "TheCell" a few posts back. Again, current from an isothermal environment.
Or, being a good skeptic, you could just believe you are right and keep crying about how impossible it is. (this is by far the easiest and is recommended for general life failure skeptics)
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on October 29, 2012, 02:20:09 AM
Lumen:

Who says I'm crying and what pray tell is a "general life failure skeptic?"  Haven't the skeptics been winning?  You need to chill out.  If this ends up going nowhere I would like an acknowledgement from you that I was right.

Nor did I say current flow was impossible.  What I said was I don't see how this experiment violates the 2nd LoT in an any way.

Can you explain how the experiment violates the second law?  So far I haven't heard from anybody, perhaps you would like to take a crack at it?

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2012, 03:19:21 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 30, 2012, 09:04:04 AM

@Philip

There are some things that I do not understand. I made a simple question about your pentode experiment and you asked me and other people to repeat the experiment, maybe posting the results on youtube. What is the goal of all this? Try to convince me and other "skeptic" that the pentode results were real? I said that one must be extremely careful in performing very very very low current measurements because it is quite easy to measure the instrument own disturbance, above all when you are doing measurement @ 500 C.

I think that the best way to silence people like me is: post a video of your own results with a Quenco working prototype. You are saying that Quenco is a "million times more powerful" than your pentode experiment. Moreover, now the patent has been filed, so no copyright problem. Why you do not do that?

One more question: Do you already have a Quenco working prototype? If not, how one can say that it is a "million times more powerful" than the pentode experiment? Are you try to sell a technology before having tested it?




 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:07 AM

I see that quentron.com site changed layout once again. Preparing for the launch?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on October 31, 2012, 10:31:32 AM
Chips to be fabricated in November, hope Stanford can meet the very tight specifications and that Quenco awes the world. ;D
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on November 01, 2012, 01:24:16 AM
SUCCESSFULL REPLICATION of Philip Hardcastle Pentode test.

Confirmed VIOLATION OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS. Yes we can, extract work from a heat reservoir, with no temperature difference.

The second law of thermodynamics express "This means it is impossible to extract energy by heat from a high-temperature energy source and then convert all of the energy into work. At least some of the energy must be passed on to heat a low-temperature energy sink"

We use a pentode,  model EL34, grid  G3 (Pin 1) connected to the anode (Pin 3) and measuring the current to the cathode (Pin 8 )

We used a home electric oven and electric grill resistor further inside, the tube was placed inside a glass dome with the resistance burner to reach a higher temperature than the oven.

We get currents up to 0,3 micro ampere, when I get to a temperature of about 350°C, but could not raise the temperature as the control card of the oven was damaged by the temperature.

The current was up from the 0,0 micro amps at room temperature to 0,3 micro ampere, the positive lead of the tester was connected to the anode and grid, the tester negative lead was connected to the cathode. By exchanging the polarity of the tips in the current tester polarity change by the same amount in the display of the tester.

We hope to put a video tomorrow better done and reaching higher temperatures and thus higher currents.

The test was conducted by myself plus two friends as witnesses, Smith Rivero and Yeruel  Bustamante.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on November 01, 2012, 02:35:55 AM
Elisha:

Now it is time to think about how researchers act responsibly and in a scientific manner.

You see what looks like an interesting result and you are supposed to question yourself, look for where you might have gone wrong, look for other possible alternative explanations, and even encourage your peers to question your results.  You are supposed to try to double-check yourself and look for possible sources of problems.  The problems might be related to measurement error or something else.

If you are really serious about this research, you would also be looking for reasons that your data and conclusions might NOT be true, because that is what good and real science is all about.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mikestocks2006 on November 01, 2012, 11:23:23 AM
SUCCESSFULL REPLICATION of Philip Hardcastle Pentode test.

Confirmed VIOLATION OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS. Yes we can, extract work from a heat reservoir, with no temperature difference.

The second law of thermodynamics express "This means it is impossible to extract energy by heat from a high-temperature energy source and then convert all of the energy into work. At least some of the energy must be passed on to heat a low-temperature energy sink"

We use a pentode,  model EL34, grid  G3 (Pin 1) connected to the anode (Pin 3) and measuring the current to the cathode (Pin 8 )

We used a home electric oven and electric grill resistor further inside, the tube was placed inside a glass dome with the resistance burner to reach a higher temperature than the oven.

We get currents up to 0,3 micro ampere, when I get to a temperature of about 350°C, but could not raise the temperature as the control card of the oven was damaged by the temperature.

The current was up from the 0,0 micro amps at room temperature to 0,3 micro ampere, the positive lead of the tester was connected to the anode and grid, the tester negative lead was connected to the cathode. By exchanging the polarity of the tips in the current tester polarity change by the same amount in the display of the tester.

We hope to put a video tomorrow better done and reaching higher temperatures and thus higher currents.

The test was conducted by myself plus two friends as witnesses, Smith Rivero and Yeruel  Bustamante.

edited to reflect PeterMax's post bellow
Thx PeterMax
 
Hi Elisha, nice work.
Thanks for posting the results.
Mike
 
http://www.quentron.com/index.html (http://www.quentron.com/index.html) 
"...To see that this is not science fiction but the biggest breakthrough ever you need to see proof, and that proof must be provided by an independent scientific body, you simply will not believe me just because I told you so.

So I offered $10,000 if someone would do the proof of concept experiment and NOT get an electrical power output, a sort of "prove me wrong" challenge, but there were no takers, so the challenge has been increased to.............
$25,000..."

 
 

 
   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: PeterMax on November 01, 2012, 11:55:44 AM
No price for success in reproducting experiment:

...proof of concept experiment and NOT get an electrical power output...

Temperature gradiant:
If Phil is right some heat will be converted in electrical current, so a part of the tube will cool down a little. This is caused by the effect and not the source of the effect.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 01, 2012, 01:15:42 PM
@Elisha

Very nice, well done.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 01, 2012, 03:30:37 PM
It's strange how those with little, can do so much and those with so much, do so little!

Very good job Elisha!


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Regster on November 01, 2012, 11:29:45 PM
I could get access to the time/equipment at a Russell Group university lab via a research scientist friend.  I have no doubt that the experiment would be replicated.  From there though, would the university be willing to endorse it?

Now if there was a challenge to replicate something using various pure metal foils (for example) producing useable power with multiple layers in an oven for example with a prize for first/best validation then I am sure there would be uptake.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on November 02, 2012, 08:52:49 AM
While Philip Hardcastle is changing (resetting) once more the look and the content of his website (new launch date... a bit annoying, to be honest), I'm still waiting for his reply to one of my previous questions, that I think to be central:

self quote:
Quote
One more question: Do you already have a Quenco working prototype? If not, how can one say that it is a "million times more powerful" than the pentode experiment?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 02, 2012, 01:05:28 PM
I could get access to the time/equipment at a Russell Group university lab via a research scientist friend.  I have no doubt that the experiment would be replicated.  From there though, would the university be willing to endorse it?

Now if there was a challenge to replicate something using various pure metal foils (for example) producing useable power with multiple layers in an oven for example with a prize for first/best validation then I am sure there would be uptake.

If you managed to successfully replicate a Quenco chip, a very hard start of the art thing to do at the moment, you wouldn't need an oven, room temperature would do nicely.

As a reputable University like Stanford are attempting to fabricate the chip at the moment if they are successful to make the layers flat enough so it won't short circuit than we will all know soon enough whether Lord Kelvin was a big as twerp about thermodynamics as he was about heavier than air flight.

Maybe I am being a bit hard on Lord Kelvin as the weirdness of quantum mechanics were not discovered when he was around.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on November 02, 2012, 04:12:38 PM
Hi All,


I am making a special posting here today to explain the changes to the Quenco long term strategy.


First a quick update on the technical issues.


I am pleased to announce that the biggest hurdle to manufacture has been solved, I cannot reveal the details because that is subject to a new patent application, what I can tell you is that the change means fabrication is now no longer exotic and difficult, and yields can now be guaranteed to be near 100%. Of course we are a long way from being able to do 1000 layer devices.


Now the changes to Quenco strategy, some time ago a lot of people here gave me their thoughts and they made sense to the point that I increased the royalty to $100 per cm2, I am no longer comfortable with that level and so I have reduced it back to my earlier pricing. It does mean a substantial drop to the foundation but in the end the needs of the environment and all the people come first. Early adoption of technology is very important and so the barriers must be kept low, even the licence fees are reduced to get the thing going asap.


The charitable foundation will have as its prime goal to produce quenco for the poor and the foundation will have a licence such that the income it receives can be efficiently applied to produce massive amounts of free quenco for those unable to afford it. Clearly this means production of billions of cm2 for the 3rd World.


It is my view that this is the best strategy.


As to the removal of the challenge, firstly there was not a single taker despite it generating an amazing amount of hits, secondly the feedback was hostile and nasty. Thirdly, and most importantly, it probably was just me being a bit childish and naive, the fact is the best proof is a fully operational quenco. So I am simplifying and focussing on that, and that alone.


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 02, 2012, 06:58:31 PM
More great news!   Thanks again for the updates.   Sorry to hear this didn't bring in big business interests yet but I suspect it's so far above what most people can believe that until some sort of device is "in their face and hands" and see a working unit that interest may be a bit slack.   You show both great knowledge and high Integrity Philip.   I am always left with a good feeling in reading your updates.     In case others haven't looked lately at the web site here's something for you from quentron.com:

                              "   The only acceptable proof of such a device is a working device

                                                                         So be here

                                                                    OFFICIAL LAUNCH
                                                                    30 November 2012
                                                                    6pm (p.s.t) "
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 02, 2012, 07:44:57 PM
@Phil

That's the ticket, are the colonies civilised enough to sell Watneys and pork pies yet and do they have PG tips? ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on November 03, 2012, 03:16:38 AM
It really is very laudable, good intention of Philip, desire that this development comes quickly to those in need. And encourage her friends and colleagues in this great challenge, the generator thermionic, which has taken so many years.

But we must be realistic, Quenco price will be high for the first to use it, regardless of the price of the license, because although you can make a high production, demand, will be much more large, therefore the price to the consumer will be high.  Therefore if the license is cheap, what will happen is that the manufacturer  and intermediaries  they will remain with much of the gain, and Philip will have minimal income compared with manufacturers, being philip, the most time and money has risked in this invention.

We propose the following.
Limit 100 licenses.
$ 10 royalty per cm2.
$ 10M Application fee per license.
$ 10M Annual renewal fee.

This is the reasoning:
The companies that will be asking Quenco licenses, and they will mass produce, are Intel, Samsung, TSMC, Global Foundries, Samsung, Micron, Toshiba, etc.. These companies are accustomed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for licenses, semiconductor, ie $ 1 million is nothing for these companies, lawyers may charge more money to write a contract of these characteristics, more that what it costs the license. For example, Intel paid this year 2.3 billion dollars for a stake of 10% in a company of semiconductor wafer fabrication.

If philip, want to help a friend, to facilitate the entry, production, Quenco because philip can directly give the discount, you want.

For the foundation proposed by philip, its purpose it should be bring solutions for the production of food, housing, water and electricity.  At cost and long-term financed. The poor do not need, Quenco and they will not know how to use it, they need solutions that work with Quenco. What could happen is that unscrupulous brokers would use these free Quenco,  making profit of the needs of the poor.

The solution to the problems of the people, is not give anything for free, because that's filled with shame, and takes away the possibility of earning their own living, and to develop themselves as individuals and as a society . What we you have to do is provide all the tools and conditions for they can have a decent life, not charging interest, giving them time and work, so they can afford what they really need.

An individual without dignity, is dependent of what you always give to him. This being the opposite of the result sought.

Note: Again we do the pentode experiment, and this reached a maximum of 3.9 micro ampere, just before melting. (Much more, than 0.3 micro ampere in previous test).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on November 03, 2012, 03:57:48 AM
Elisha:

Quote
Note: Again we do the pentode experiment, and this reached a maximum of 3.9 micro ampere, just before melting. (Much more, than 0.3 micro ampere in previous test).
   
I hate to say this, but it's time for everybody in this thread to get real.  People that want to believe in free energy cannot simply close their eyes to the truth.

Seamus103 already stated it in posting #339 but you did not want to acknowledge it and no one else did either.  Your experimental setup is clearly not an isothermal setup, it's a toaster oven!  A toaster oven can't even make evenly browned toast.  The heating element cycles on and off according to the setting of the thermostat.  That does not product a constant temperature, that produces a variable temperature.  In addition, the parts of the pentode tube that are closer to the heating element will be hotter than the parts of the pentode tube that are farther away from the heating element.

Unfortunately you haven't replicated anything.  That is the truth and if it's upsetting to you, channel your frustration in a positive way.  Try to make a better experimental apparatus.  A toaster oven will simply not work, sorry.

The truth is without any specialized equipment, the chances are very slim that you will be able to make an isothermal oven.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 03, 2012, 04:57:00 PM
@Elisha

Nice, but you ought to save your money, we should all know within about a month when Stanford have successfully fabricated the millimetre baby Quencos.

When tests on them show a small current without an oven then bingo!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 04, 2012, 06:40:10 AM
Anyone that thinks a toaster oven is not sufficient for this test is severely limited in problem solving.

1: Heat the tube and record the current and polarity. Let the oven cool down and rotate the tube 180 degrees. Reheat and record the current and polarity. Is it the same polarity? If yes then it works.

2: Place the tube on a rotating shaft and slowly rotate while heating. Does it produce an alternating current? If no, then it works.

Wow, tested in a toaster oven without expensive isothermal oven.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 04, 2012, 08:00:22 AM
Anyone that thinks a toaster oven is not sufficient for this test is severely limited in problem solving.

1: Heat the tube and record the current and polarity. Let the oven cool down and rotate the tube 180 degrees. Reheat and record the current and polarity. Is it the same polarity? If yes then it works.

2: Place the tube on a rotating shaft and slowly rotate while heating. Does it produce an alternating current? If no, then it works.

Wow, tested in a toaster oven without expensive isothermal oven.

If yes, then it works? If no, then it works?

Really? So your tests in the toaster oven are ruling out ANY OTHER POSSIBLE explanation for seeing a current indicated on the instrumentation? 

Wow, your toaster oven must be really something. Do you put the meter in there too, so it's not acting as a cold sink for some thermoelectric effect?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on November 04, 2012, 02:08:28 PM
Lumen:

Your comments are nonsensical.  You are implicitly conceding that the toaster oven is not an isothermal environment but you have a Lumen-inspired "work around" for the problem.  Just rotate the tubes like barbecue chicken and if they produce current in a variable-temperature environment then all must be fine.

Your "problem solving" is severely limited.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 04, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
If yes, then it works? If no, then it works?

Really? So your tests in the toaster oven are ruling out ANY OTHER POSSIBLE explanation for seeing a current indicated on the instrumentation? 

Wow, your toaster oven must be really something. Do you put the meter in there too, so it's not acting as a cold sink for some thermoelectric effect?

Absolutely! Yes for test #1 and No for test #2.
These are separate tests so they have separate answers for the true condition.

Do you doubt the tests ability to determine if the result is due to uneven heating?

Of course, there is always the possibility that just after you rotate the tube 180 degrees, the toaster oven will suddenly reverse it's heat flow direction just to mess with your test. (maybe it's a smart toaster oven!)

It may even rotate the heating direction to match the tube rotation in test #2 so only one side of the tube will get heat. Yes it's a magic convection toaster oven!

Or, maybe the tests actually work as described. (naw, this is impossible in view of the other probabilities)

Cold sink!, Yes, first show me one that uses the same wire type for both sides of the connection! Oh, and test #3, Swap the wires connected to the tube and repeat tests #1 and #2.

Where is the "Cold Sink "idea now? Gee, I don't see it!

All the equipment in the world does not produce a good test, analytical thinking is the best equipment.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 06, 2012, 07:48:41 AM
Lumen:

Your comments are nonsensical.  You are implicitly conceding that the toaster oven is not an isothermal environment but you have a Lumen-inspired "work around" for the problem.  Just rotate the tubes like barbecue chicken and if they produce current in a variable-temperature environment then all must be fine.

Your "problem solving" is severely limited.

MileHigh

Umm, works for chicken!

The idea is that if uneven heating is a problem, it will show up as changing polarity or changing current, provided the tube is rotated slowly. If the tube is rotated rapidly then there could be no such thing as uneven heating even if you used a cheap heat gun!

So think about that limited problem solving.

It doesn't really make any difference now since it appears Philip has his Quenco chips working!

"We now know how to produce almost perfect Quenco's,
and we will make a 2cm x 2cm array of 4mm2 Quenco's,
mounted on a 115.5 x 62.1 x 12.3 mm heat absorber.
 
We will use this array to perpetually power an iPhone,
an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary proof,
a witnessed working device."

OFFICIAL LAUNCH
30 November 2012
6pm (p.s.t)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 06, 2012, 05:41:42 PM
Lumen:

Your comments are nonsensical.  You are implicitly conceding that the toaster oven is not an isothermal environment but you have a Lumen-inspired "work around" for the problem.  Just rotate the tubes like barbecue chicken and if they produce current in a variable-temperature environment then all must be fine.

Your "problem solving" is severely limited.

MileHigh

I am about sick of a couple of you on this forum.  Why don't you go back with your buddy TK and use your "problem solving skills" to design a "working" whipmag.  Oh, wait, you did that, but it was a fraud. 
At least lumens is testing something.  Instead of fault finding anyone really interested in finding some real solutions.  You have an agenda and TK has an agenda.  We on this forum are wise to the both of you.
 
Have a nice day!
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on November 06, 2012, 05:58:11 PM
Lumen:

There is an expression about counting chickens.  You say the incubation period will be over at the end of the month?  We will both have to wait and see.

Bruce:

You can't fit a square peg into a round hole no matter how much you try.  Lumen is not testing anything, we are discussing Elisha's testing.

Now, Elisha's test is either an isothermal test or it's not an isothermal test.  The TRUTH is that it is CLEARLY NOT an isothermal oven.  Now, is this progress, to do improper tests and then just push ahead and act like you are deaf, dumb, and blind?

What is your opinion, do you think Elisha's test setup is an isothermal setup, yes or no?

Here is the problem Bruce:  If you close your eyes and say, "Yes, the toaster oven is an isothermal setup" then were does that lead to?   What are the possible consequences?

Well, a few people have been killed transferring liquified "HHO"  (really 2H2 + O2) from one container to another.  The roof blew off of a building in California last year, it was in the news.  Handling "HHO" is like handling a bomb - nitroglycerin - one tiny static spark and boom you are dead.

Or, your thinking based on wishful thinking and blinding yourself to the truth leads to things like Thalidomide babies.

Quote
Thalidomide, launched by Grünenthal on 1 October 1957,[10] was found to act as an effective tranquilizer and painkiller, and was proclaimed a "wonder drug" for insomnia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia), coughs, colds, and headaches.

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, more than 10,000 children in 46 countries were born with deformities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deformities), such as phocomelia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia), as a consequence of thalidomide use.[11] It is not known exactly how many worldwide victims of the drug there have been, although estimates range from 10,000 to 20,000.

So sorry Bruce, a toaster oven is NOT an isothermal oven, and you should face up to that fact.

MileHigh

PS:  I had absolutely nothing to do with the Whipmag.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 06, 2012, 07:32:57 PM
Bruce,

Sorry Bruce, I'm not the one doing the testing. I'm just lining up the life failure skeptics for the soon to come crow feast.

If any of them would have done any research, they would have known that the principal (electron tunneling due to heat) has been a problem in the MOSFET industry when they tried to reduce gate barriers to less than 100nm.
Can you imagine the tunneling you would get with a barrier less than 1.5nm!

But you know how they are.  ::)

I don't want to say too much, I'm already -10 points with Philip.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: PeterMax on November 08, 2012, 02:54:59 PM

Update on the website (quentron.com) regarding the launch:

"
We now know how to produce almost perfect Quenco's
For the launch we will have 3mm diameter Quenco's
These devices will be available as loans to licencees


We will also make an array of 3mm diameter Quenco's
The array will be mounted on 1/8th thick Aluminum plate
The desired output will be 5.1V @ 3Amps via a USB
Sufficient to perpetually power an iPad with no battery
I would like to nickname this integration as the QiPad

I hope to be able to get Eric Wesoff to test the QiPad
Eric seems to me to be 100% sceptical about Quenco
There can be no better report than one from a sceptic
(Eric Wesoff is the Editor in Chief at Greentech Media)
www.cleantechlawpartners.com/CLP/Eric_Wesoff.html
 
OFFICIAL LAUNCH USA & EUROPE
30th November 2012
"


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on November 08, 2012, 06:49:02 PM
I wondered:

1) Why the change from 2mm to 3mm - presumably easier to handle / connect to?

2) An iPad seems like an unnecessarily complicated hurdle for a proof of concept - wouldn't a bulb would do the trick, with less room for claims of an alternate power source?

3) Who "AR" was in the licensing. The "AR" in Italy that immediately springs to mind wouldn't inspire confidence

4) If there were any images of fabricated film yet
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 08, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
It's early on in the fabrication process so I would guess that 2-3mm chips are about the size that can be reliably produced.

The iPad does seem a bit out there for an early test device, but it's cool to think you could just run it forever and never need to charge it.

AR, Yes I had the same thought, but you really won't need the AR stuff unless you plan to use it in space where there is not heat. (like a Mars trip)

This is all just my opinion since we are all waiting for the launch for the real info.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 08, 2012, 09:11:16 PM
As Phil claims that a fully developed Quenco can still produce power at liquid nitrogen temperatures, a trip to Mars using the latest electro drives, maybe even boosted with ultra thin solar mirrors should be a doddle.

And Mars is quite warm  during the day at its equator.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: PeterMax on November 10, 2012, 11:28:17 AM
Website quentron.com changed again.

Number of licenses reduced, but way more expensive.
Details of launch removed.

"
Only 25 Licences will ever be created, 16 have now been assigned or reserved
Those currently holding a reserved licence shall be entitled to convert at $1M

There will be no further licences issued until after the official product launch
After the launch there will be 9 more licences for sale at $100M per licence



Official Launch
30th November 2012
"
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on November 10, 2012, 01:11:45 PM
Hi All,


A frustrating week for me but also a good one.
Totally confident about delivering Quenco by the 30th unless there is a disaster, and I think I have already had more than my share these last 6 months.


Materials needed to make 100 Quenco's has been ordered and should be in hand by weeks end, we of course will make just half a dozen on the first run to check calibrations again.


We figure the time in the ALD is about 2 hours, PVD about 1 hour, and other tasks about 4 hours, so technically speaking it is just a days work, realistically it will take 3 days.


So as to increase voltage we are going to go with a slightly thicker device, probably 4nm, which will allow us to have 100mV and so say 51 devices for a 5V supply.


After a lot of consideration from good people and upon reflection we have reduced the licences to 25 from 100, considerations were management and efficiency. It should be understood that some people feel that investment is stymied if there are too many licences and i can understand that viewpoint, also I feel that I can handle only a small number of licences in the first instant as everyone will want my attention. I feel that ultimately there will be a distribution of licences around the World. I was disappointed we did not have anyone from India or China apply before I closed the offer of cheap licence, a genuine person did contact me just a short time ago from India telling me that I should not forget the needs of India, I have not but I am just one person, I am sure some of the people that have licences will make sure India and China are supplied, and the Foundation will no doubt use it production to supply the very poor of those nations.


Bye   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 10, 2012, 01:32:23 PM
Thanks very much for the update Phil.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 11, 2012, 08:54:29 AM
Thanks for the very encouraging news Phil.  It sounds like things are moving full speed and that you are handling things in the best possible way.  Your flexibility of going with the flow of things tells me there is great wisdom in your decisions.   Best wishes for easier and fruitful weeks ahead!   Since I just got through watching an old Star Trek movie I wanted to say 'Shields up and warp speed Captain' but then that might sound silly ...  ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on November 12, 2012, 01:08:34 AM
Philip, thanks for the updates.    All our best wishes to you!!

The decision to limit the licenses to 25 is very wise is difficult to a man to manage 100 installations worldwide, but in the future you will need more to cover the world.  All the licensed must to work in coordinated fashion with philip, will be interesting to have coordination and status weekly meetings (later when the licensed start to design and build the local manufacture plant).

This soon will transform from a breakthrough science project, to a full business project, precisely a Franchise business.  This is a task for a man or company with this type of expertise, how to convert a start up business into a franchise, the good news is that there is a lot of companies capable to do this.  I believe that the franchise will assure a limit to the profit, this is big business 30% annual profit is very good.

Every license must to look for the best minds, companies and universities in their region to continue the R&D,  think in ways to produce a more hi speed manufacture process, and all time lower cost.

For global collaboration methodology and tools I recommend www.assembla.com (http://www.assembla.com) they are the best.

This is my guest for the nine licences: 1- Intel corporation, 2- Samsung electronics, 3- TSMC, 4- Global Foundries, 5- STMicroelectronics, 6- UMC, 7- Texas Instruments, 8- LG electronics, 9- Toshiba semiconductor.    In the line up are Hynix, Micron, Infineon, Freescale, Renesas electronics.  Also can include Google, Apple.  Anyone of this companies will pay billions for a licence.

My fear is that kind of mega companies with billions in cash will eat the small team of Philip.  He is a talented and dedicated inventor, but Will Philip ride this type of mega corporate monsters?, At this time I know that philip must to be on top to ensure the philanthropic view, but i don't know about the business mans needed, a circle of egoistic business mans around of Philip will kill the philanthropic view.

The Eternal God be with us !
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 14, 2012, 04:18:01 PM
The US has said they will be the worlds largest oil producer by 2020. They plan to do this through fracking and horizontal drilling, both are heavy polluters to water ways and underground streams.

I now have some huge fears that quenco will just be snuffed out like some dust mite in the midst of this.

 :o
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 14, 2012, 04:19:29 PM
Powering lasers through heat.

http://phys.org/news/2012-11-powering-lasers.html (http://http://phys.org/news/2012-11-powering-lasers.html)


Interesting I thought if they could power lasers then they should also be able to power masers by heat and converting microwaves to electricity is much more efficient than light at the moment. (90%)
These people seem to think that electrons can only tunnel from hot to cold, maybe that is the case without the Quenco barrier although electronic chips should always be above ambient anyway.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 14, 2012, 06:10:10 PM
The US has said they will be the worlds largest oil producer by 2020. They plan to do this through fracking and horizontal drilling, both are heavy polluters to water ways and underground streams.

I now have some huge fears that quenco will just be snuffed out like some dust mite in the midst of this.

 :o
Yes I saw that article also about the US becoming the largest oil producer.  I agree it's a big concern.  We need to do all we can to help Quenco become a mainstream energy source.   I want to believe Phil has a handle on all this but until I see it readily available I will not rest easy. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 14, 2012, 06:40:01 PM
Some more info from http://www.sciencenewsline.com/ (http://www.sciencenewsline.com/) about using heat to power lasers via quantum tunneling.

In their work, recently published in Physical Review Letters, the two physicists propose the theory that the heating effect in quantum cascade lasers could not only be avoided but, in fact, reversed through a cleverly-devised modification of the thickness of the semiconductor layers. "A crucial part is to spatially separate the cold and warm areas in the laser," explains Kathrin Sandner. "In such a temperature gradient driven laser, electrons are thermally excited in the warm area and then tunnel into the cooler area where photons are emitted." This produces a circuit where light particles are emitted and heat is absorbed from the system simultaneously. "Between the consecutive emissions of light particles a phonon is absorbed and the laser is cooled. When we develop this idea further, we see that the presence of phonons may be sufficient to provide the energy for laser amplification," says Kathrin Sandner. Such a laser could be powered without using electric current.

So my take on this is that by emitting photons the cool side remains cool and if the laser/maser energy could efficiently be converted into electricity then maybe a heat pump with a COP of at least three could heat a device enough to make more electricity than the heat pump requires just by cooling what ever.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mikestocks2006 on November 14, 2012, 07:59:36 PM
Some more info from http://www.sciencenewsline.com/ (http://www.sciencenewsline.com/) about using heat to power lasers via quantum tunneling.

In their work, recently published in Physical Review Letters, the two physicists propose the theory that the heating effect in quantum cascade lasers could not only be avoided but, in fact, reversed through a cleverly-devised modification of the thickness of the semiconductor layers. "A crucial part is to spatially separate the cold and warm areas in the laser," explains Kathrin Sandner. "In such a temperature gradient driven laser, electrons are thermally excited in the warm area and then tunnel into the cooler area where photons are emitted." This produces a circuit where light particles are emitted and heat is absorbed from the system simultaneously. "Between the consecutive emissions of light particles a phonon is absorbed and the laser is cooled. When we develop this idea further, we see that the presence of phonons may be sufficient to provide the energy for laser amplification," says Kathrin Sandner. Such a laser could be powered without using electric current.

So my take on this is that by emitting photons the cool side remains cool and if the laser/maser energy could efficiently be converted into electricity then maybe a heat pump with a COP of at least three could heat a device enough to make more electricity than the heat pump requires just by cooling what ever.

Speaking of lasers, is it related to this?
 
"This leads to a theoretical coefficient of performance (COP) of up to 700%. A COP = 200% can be easily achieved..."
 
Self powered laser pistol revolutionizes warfare (http://nerdtrek.com/self-powered-laser-pistol-revolutionizes-warfare/)
Five years ago, Dr. Victor Klimov at Los Alamos National Laboratory produced a permanent solution to the world’s energy crisis.  This work is printed in leading physics journals of the world and was validated by two US National Labs: LANL and NREL.  It is scientific fact so look it up before you disrespect in the comments below.
Nanocrystalline power is what we’re talking about here folks.  The solution to the world’s energy crisis lies in tiny nanoycrystalline solar cells which can absorb the light of a specific wave length in such a way that one photon input to a solar cell can energize more than one output electron.  When the output electron absorbs a photon, it disappears for a short amount of time into the quantum field.  Once in the virtual state, the electron can borrow energy from the vacuum and then appears in our reality.  After this the highly excited electron (with all its excess energy taken freely from the active virtual state vacuum) can energize up to 7 output electrons.
This leads to a theoretical coefficient of performance (COP) of up to 700%. A COP = 200% can be easily achieved and it has been, as have been higher values. The experiment has also been replicated successfully and validated by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden Colorado. [Herb Brody, "Solar Power - Seriously Souped Up." New Scientist, May 27, 2006, p 45].
 
http://nerdtrek.com/self-powered-laser-pistol-revolutionizes-warfare/ (http://nerdtrek.com/self-powered-laser-pistol-revolutionizes-warfare/)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on November 14, 2012, 09:03:02 PM
C.O.P.:  7x ! 

 ::) http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=6&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19931012&CC=US&NR=5252176A&KC=A  8)

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 14, 2012, 09:38:56 PM
                        @mikestocks2006 (http://www.overunity.com/profile/mikestocks2006.2635/)Interesting but different, Kathrin Sandner and Helmut Ritsch have come up with an idea to turn the energy supplied by hot tunneling electrons into a Laser and I speculated if a Laser why not a Maser which would at least double the electricity that could be produced which is about 40% for light.

No vacuum energy needed.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 15, 2012, 07:27:10 AM
I believe Quenco is already the most efficient by converting heat directly at 100% conversion.
Any other method that converts heat to electrical current using additional steps, can only function with additional loss.

Though if you think about it, if you have something that is always available and you lose some of it when getting it, does it really make any difference even if you lost half of it?

 :D

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 15, 2012, 01:21:14 PM
I don't think even a fully developed Quenco will be a 100% efficient, there always going to be some small loses.  Asymmetry is the key to Quenco causing a very large inbalance of tunneling electrons between the emitter and receiver.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 15, 2012, 05:28:26 PM
I don't think even a fully developed Quenco will be a 100% efficient, there always going to be some small loses.  Asymmetry is the key to Quenco causing a very large inbalance of tunneling electrons between the emitter and receiver.

I am not sure how the loss or efficiency in the quenco can be calculated.

Using two different metals with different work functions causes a voltage difference at any temperature, so if an electron with a given level of kinetic energy can tunnel through the barrier between them, then it will lose some of it's kinetic energy. If the electron still contains enough kinetic energy it may be possible to tunnel back again, but now it requires more kinetic energy to go back because of the already existing potential difference.

Electrons with kinetic energy simply bounce around and transfer kinetic energy back and forth with other electrons in a scheme of adding and subtracting from other electrons. So if you have two electrons that do not have enough kinetic energy to tunnel through the barrier, then they might have an interaction that transfers all of one electrons kinetic energy to the other electron and now one electron can tunnel the barrier.

So in the end, it looks like over time, all the kinetic energy would eventually move all possible electrons across the barrier.
I am not sure if this is true, this is simply my understanding of what I believe is going on in the quenco chip.
We hope that Philip will give us a full understanding soon.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on November 15, 2012, 05:49:46 PM
C.O.P.:  7x ! 

 ::) http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=6&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19931012&CC=US&NR=5252176A&KC=A  8)

Sincerely
                 CdL

LancaIV, good find. Further reading:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/CCL-310-300-p2.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5252176.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5252176.pdf

Abstract
This invention relates to a novel method of, and means for, directing energy through Si2 HSb2 in such a manner that normal energy parameters can be exceeded.

1. Process for preparing crystalline Si2 HSb2 comprising the following steps:

placing equal parts of Silicon and Antimony in a first mixture; ..........

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Xeno on November 16, 2012, 09:24:57 AM
Hello everybody, and my best regards to you Philip.
 
I hope things are progressing accordingly, and like other wise men already have pointed out, that u got ure base covered when u go live whit ure invention, not only whould it be sad to see another brilliant, kind person looking out for mankind, 6 feet under, their invention stolen and hidden away, history has a tendancy to repeat it self when one challanges the corrupt dark powers in control of this planet. Especially when one upsets so many aspects of it at the same time.
 
How does one hope to change the way the system works, if one does not know how the system currently operates, fully and completly ?
I hope for the sake of mankind u know of the implications this type of technology have.
Just as the current systems owners have "safety" measuers and "intruder" alert warning signals, fail safes and so on to guard their il begotten stolen and self percievd power, wealth and property.
 
So must u have if youre main goal is for the whole of mankind to benefit from ure invention.
Patents, yeah once upon a time it served its purpouse, nowdays tho...
6000+ and counting, tc2800 saws, military application, 2 wolfs and a sheep vote whats for dinner, swimming whita group of great whites wearing nothing but a bloody meatsuit, if it looks like poo smells like poo taste like... need i add texture size densety and volume ? its resistance and displacment in water ?
 
Why would a bankrobber warn the bank hes gonna rob before he robs it ?
 
He doesent... thats just stupid.
 
They say there are 2 ways to change the system, either from whitin, or by not playing by its rules, forcing it to adept, preferable via problem reaction solution.
Either only works by outsmarting youre oponents.
 
Why do u think theyr trying to clamp down on the internet ? or why the president of usa have to power to shut it down ?
 
What have the internet brought to challange tptb ?
 
What say history about the main work force behind almoast everything that have been built, the heavy labor, still true to this day, altho in modern times somewhat disguised, via the economic system...
 
When the time is right, would reccomend doing a show and tell on ted.com share ure vision for the future whit quenco to millions of people :)
But before going public...
Record a full disclosure leaving nothing out, open source public domain, that goes on the internet inc u meet ure maker by the hands of those who would like nothing better then to supress this kind of technollogy for their own benefit, youre safety line aswell as mankinds. Ofc several bakups different places ppl u can trust etc, and none of you or ure companions can have nothing to lose, it will be used against them once its on their radar.
Any and all the dirty tricks in the book, treaths kidnapping murder etc, for them its buissnes as usual.
 
Hope for the best but always prepare for the worst.
Those who fail to prepare, are preparing to fail.
Thats my 2 cents, a lifetime of observation and some common sense.
Knowledge is power, over ureself, ignorance is power, that someone else have over u.
 
My best regards, wishes and good luck to u Philip
 
And may all of mankind benefit from quenco, putting and end to the energy wars, paving the way for world peace and tossing the corrupt monetary system in the trash where it belongs whit the rest of the psycopaths using and manipulating it for their endless thirst for power and profit, raping and plundering this planet...
 
Respectfully yours
/Xeno
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 16, 2012, 09:39:39 PM
 Xeno,

WOW, you could probably lighten up just a bit. :o   Relax and take the dog for a walk and some fresh air.  8)
The stress of life is weighing heavy on you! :-[
Better days are coming!  ;D

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: steeltpu on November 16, 2012, 11:27:54 PM
We can hope better days are coming.   However anyone who doesn't believe in energy suppression might want to take a look at these 3 papers here:  http://www.overunity.com/7987/new-invention-of-motion-less-generation-of-electric-power/710/#.UKa6XcjLdb0 (http://www.overunity.com/7987/new-invention-of-motion-less-generation-of-electric-power/710/#.UKa6XcjLdb0)  which are titled Killed Inventors 1, Killed Inventors 2 and Killed Inventors 3.  To make it easy I will put them all here in one post.

   I don't want to scare any good inventors like Hardcastle off but it would be wise to take all possible precautions since it appears this could be a disruptive technology to many existing energy producers and battery makers as well as governments that collect tax money on gas, oil and so on.   If the governments are smart they will see that they can still tax new technology if they need to.    Something must be done soon though or they will destroy the ecosystem on this planet. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Xeno on November 17, 2012, 05:47:30 AM
The knowledge accumulated, observed and experienced over my lifetime is indeed a heavy burden to bear. It sucks the lifeforce, happiness and joy, untill ure nothing but an empty depressed shell of a man, making u sometimes doubt why u even bother anymore. But then u remind ureself, its for the advancment and benefit of mankind, if i can help warn others, so they dont make the same mistakes like so many other before them, whit the knowledge i have, all it takes is 1 done right, succeeding by making the right choice, 1 that is and have invented the real mccoy, wise enough to heed the warnings, that doesent fail to prepare.
 
We all have our part to play, mine have always been to gather information, i have been doing so ever since my own father took his life, while i myself was still young and ignorant, becouse he was not strong enough to endure the burden of the same knowledge, aswell, he was the victime of a goverment emplyed nazi dentist's illegal experimental mercury based alloy, it expanded, cracking his teeth, rotting of his jawbone below the teeth, seeping into the body, poisoning him, and leaving the body sometimes via puss infested wounds it made, goverment coverup, and stalling via the judical system so much so they could write it off, and deny him economic compensation to sanitise his mouth, ruining him in the process, he was not the only victim.
But the apple does not fall far from the tree, i walk in his footsteps, but i am stronger then my father. And i have nothing to lose.
 
The "game" is rigged, psycopaths run the show, not doing everything to maximize profit is illegal, for the sake of the shareholders, the goverments enjoys their legalised theft they call tax. Those in their respective area of power does not want to lose it, and whit it the wealth it brings.
Recent studies have shown an avarage of 40% of the money a consumer pays for a product, goes straight into the pokets of the banks as profit via their debt enslavment system, all the loans to pay wages, loans consumers make etc, it all ads up. Fractional reserve banking, best way yet to funnel wealth and power from the people of the world to those who run it.
 
This marvelous invention (and all other potential free energy devices) endangers the maximised profit making and the power that goes whit it, of the corporations the goverment and banks (whit their respective individuals) of everything that needs energy in one form or another to run.
 
I enjoy playing the devils advocate, for the sake of honing my argumental skills, aswell as the different angles of perception one gets.
 
For the sake of argument, lets say i was a psycopathic mega corporation ceo, who does not have empathy, does not care for other people, they are but chesspeices, playthings for my own amusment, worthless eating cattle, stupid ignorant slave sheep, why would i not do everything in my power, via my wealth to stop someone challanging my empire ?
A few hobbys of mine would be flawless scheming, manipulation, technology, and how to get away whit murder (in the artform of making it look natural, or like a heart attack or an accident), getting someone to do the dirty work for me, and then getting rid of him if need be, covering my tracks.
Networked whit professional contract killers, hires those a coupple o times a year, no problemo. And the people i know and mingle whit are more or less like me some even works whit secret and highly classified stuff, black ops, politicians, bankers, lobbyists lawyers judges etc. We are the self appointed owners of this world and we do whatever the hell we like.
 
Quite a dangerous bunch of people, no ?
 
Its said psycopaths are betwen 1-2 % of the world population, and they are 5 times more frequently existing in the top positions of society, as in 5-10 percent of the worlds leaders are psycopaths, thing is tho there exist several different types of psycopaths, and the most dangerous types are the ones described above the extremly smart, intelligent ones whit an agenda, completly ruthless etc.
These are the people in control, the masters of slaves, who have molded the system so it rewards their evil nature.
 
To play their game that they are the masters of, by their rules, whitout being prepared, or knowing what one is up against, one does not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how that is going to end.
 
In the world of the blind the one eyed man is king.
Thanks to the internet more and more are waking up, starting to question the way things are. Hence the current biggest threat to tptb.
There is a reason for the existance of the saying, ignorance is bliss.
 
Quenco, unlimited extremly cheap electricity for life that doesent break, adaptable to everything.
vs a world whit monopolised expensive finite resources, outsorced cheap labor, poor quality, shit brakes trash it buy new, short term maximise profit recurring businessmodel, run by ruthless psycopaths.
 
Its easier to just let the madness continue, someone else will fix it syndrome, most people on this planet dont want to talk bout tuchy subjects, they live in their own bubbles, slaving away in a job they probably hate 8 hours or more a day, sure most have a clue shit aint right, and some digg a little untill they cant take it no more, but naivly thinking their leaders have their best interests at heart, will work it out for them, thats their job, aint that what we are paying tax for etc, they dont seem to have the mental capacity to think several steps ahead, or in different directions, or figure out why things are the way they are, just vote when its time to, shut up, and go back to sleep.
 
Its easier to ignore a problem, or not even acknowledge that it is, then trying to solve it in the optimal manner.
Its also easier to dismiss something as being wrong, becouse it doesent fit their perfect little indoctrinated world view, then to look up how shit works. 
Its easier to let someone else do the thinking and decitionmaking for u to just gobble up and thats that.
 
Iv lost count on how many times people have told me i think to much, iv observed it only happens when talking bout controversial subjects, things that are bad, that seems to make people depressed, people dont want to know how bad shit realy is, hehe even my own mother say she would go insane if she would think bout the stuff i do...
 
I look forward to the day shit turns around, i hope and long for it, but it wont happen by it self, nor will it happen by ignoring the problems we face.
 
Unlimited Free energy is THE game changer, its the key for the next step, the holy grail, and it is what powers advanced space travling civilisations in the universe.
 
People of this world still struggle whit the basics, food heat water and roof over their head.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 17, 2012, 07:55:03 AM
Xeno,  Sorry to hear about your father.   It took me quite a while to wake up the the role dentists play and I totally understand.  I do believe most dentists are conditioned or brain fed by the pharmaceutical and medical machine to keep us all buying their drugs and keep us half sick so as to always need their services and drugs.  IMO they are busted on the mercury thing but it will be decades before they fess up to that if ever.  By then they'll be using something else.  But I'll say for the purpose of this thread and forum your info is a bit over the top and probably most don't want to hear that much info.  I can take it and largely agree.  But what can the average person do?
  At first I thought it would be best if Phil totally open sourced this but then I realized it's not something even the better home electronics builders could make.  It needs the resources of some wealthy companies to build these and crank them out to where they can start getting into the hands of the many in need.   Right now enough people know about Quenco including Stanford university staff as well as backup people he has stated have his complete info so it's not going to go away by any easy means.  The Internet has really brought power to the people in many ways.    Awareness of the dark side is key in making decisions. 
  While it may look like many people are asleep I think many more people are waking up now but they choose to focus on a better world.   So while they may look asleep they just may be bringing about a better world by focusing on it.  Do you know what I mean?  You empower that which you focus on.   I've said it here before but I'll say it again.   What a wonderful world it will be with Quenco. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: JouleSeeker on November 18, 2012, 02:29:59 AM
Dear Philip --

This is Dr Steven Jones, aka PhysicsProf and JouleSeeker, emeritus professor of physics.  Just had an email from e2matrix, who called attention to your request for validation at a university.

I have access to very good measuring devices and helpful colleagues at three universities:
1.  Utah Valley University (Orem, Utah)
2.  Brigham Young University (Provo, Utah)
These are close to where I now live and have excellent equipment -- and, further but still excellent:
3.  University of Missouri (Columbia, Missouri), which has a team now studying "cold fusion" - better called, "anomalous excess heat".  I gave an invited seminar at the Univ of Missouri on 25 Oct 2012 regarding alternative energy, "freedom energy" in particular.  The talk was well-received.

I would be very happy to work with you in getting a validation at one or two of these universities.

Sorry for taking so long to respond to your request, but I was just informed about it this evening by e2. 

Please let me know if I can be of help.  My web-site, so you can get to know me better:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/

Regular email:  ProfSJones@gmail.com

Sincere best wishes,
Steven E Jones

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on November 18, 2012, 06:55:33 AM
Dear Steven,


thanks for the contact.


The need for a reputable University to do the $10 experiment is perhaps uncertain except to say that any replication of a violation of the Kelvin interpretation serves to remove the barrier of the status quo which is paralysing energy physics.


The experiment has been done now by a few people but not by a known University.The need for the scientific method to be applied goes without saying for there to be an explosion of interest, but any University doing this experiment will find the response will be almost venomous.


That being said the first thing is to do is to qualify the term $10, the parts are indeed cheap but the time spent and equipment needed to be considered bullet proof are not trivial. However to obviate the need for temperature sensors that are accurate enough to satisfy skeptics I have employed a method of encasing the device (the Radio Tube) in a block of Aluminum (or even better copper or Silver) surrounded by an insulating layer and then inside another block of metal, simple thermal modelling then shows that it is impossible to have a delta T across the device exceeding 0.01K for a easily measured 10K delta T on the outside container (measured by thermocouples in quadrants), the thermocouples used are of course group calibrated.


Having removed delta T across the device it is then necessary to eliminate the other possible sources as have been suggested.

I will deal with them here.


Some have claimed radioactivity of the Tube, given a measured current of say 4uA and a mass of material on the Cathode reasonably calculated at less than 0.1gm we clearly have about 0.001Mole of the relevant material, the occurrence of radioactive isotopes is very small (less than 0.0001%), so that give a total possible radioactive source of 0.00000001Mole, and given a radioactivity half life for the possible isotopes of many years (otherwise the 30 year old valves radioactive material would have decayed to near Zero) we can use a sensible max of 10,000 beta emission per second or say a femtoamp. As the current is uA's then fA's is totally insignificant. In any case if it were radioactive we would not need to heat the tube to see that current.


RF, if the device under test is a diode with low barrier potential then RF could be rectified if it is induced by the wires connecting the DUT to the external load. Obviously the use of shielding would attenuate, so the simplest mode of elimination is to run the DUT unshielded and then rigorously shielded. Further we can add capacitors to short RF so seeing a reduction in the measured current if it is simply rectified RF. Of course other instruments cam be applied to detect such RF as is present. We of course need to run the experiment with a (temporary) shorting link across the DUT to prove the effect is not Seebeck or thermocouple. These are silly as we use identical wires but critics say many things. Of course we need to ensure that the termination at the load are thermally of the same temp so that we cannot be accused of inducing and instrument error, and of course equal at the hot end so no claim of a delta T across the DUT.


I guess I can say a lot more but at the end of the day a team at a respected University should come up with its own protocols.


All I can say is that it works and Kelvin is wrong.Any University having the guts to do this will be part of an exciting part of history, and will be by my reckoning the 5th to do so, but the first to do so with unimpeachable independence.


Regards


Phil
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on November 18, 2012, 07:35:29 AM
Philp:

I don't understand your train of thought here.  Since you will be releasing your actual device in less than two weeks, there is no need for any sophisticated measuring equipment or sophisticated thermal setups.  I am assuming that Dr. Jones wants to test your actual released device, and not attempt to replicate the test tube experiment.

If I recall you stated that your released device will output on the order of watts of power, enough to power an iPad.  So there are any number of trivial experiments that could be done to confirm your claims.  For example, you could embed the device in epoxy such that water cannot infiltrate.  Then run the two wires to a resistor of the correct value to dissipate several watts of power and monitor the heat produced by the resistor and monitor the DC voltage (approximately 5 volts) with an ordinary multimeter.  Put the Quentron device embedded in epoxy into a small aquarium that is thermally isolated from the table top with styrofoam legs.

So the setup is a small aquarium filed with water with the Quentron device in the water.  The two wires lead out of the aquarium and connect to a resistor nearby.  You monitor the voltage across the resistor and thus the power dissipated by the resistor.  You monitor the temperature of the water in the aquarium.  What you should see is continuous DC power dissipated in the resistor while the temperature of the water in the aquarium drops over time.

So, in summary, it would be great for Dr. Jones to test your device but since the power output is on the order of watts, not microwatts, no sophisticated apparatus or measurement devices are needed to confirm that the device works as claimed.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: JouleSeeker on November 18, 2012, 08:35:58 PM
  Thanks for the reply and information, Philip.

Two of the universities I mentioned above have (I believe) the equipment needed to do the experiment justice, based on what you have described.  But only one of them likely has the "guts" to challenge status-quo physics.  This is the group at the Univ of Missouri (UM).  They are already raising eyebrows by doing "cold fusion" research...  and by inviting me to speak there last month.  This is the ONLY university in the US and Canada that I know of that would have both the expertise and the guts to do the experiment.

They have excellent calorimeters and calorimetry skills, which should prove useful.  One would need an understanding regarding the "intellectual rights", and I suggest that "renting" the equipment would be advisable to avoid problems down the road, with you and me as "visiting scientists".  The team there would assist the visiting scientists, the latter being in charge.

I have a good friend (going back over 20 years) there who I believe would be willing to help.  I would need (privately I think) a little more information about just what you have in mind for the test, and what results one might expect from a successful test, so that I can begin serious discussion with him and the team there.  If you agree, of course!
Snail mail if you wish:  Dr Jones, PO box 325, Spring City, UT 84662, or email is fine with me. If it is possible to use a high-sophistication existing calorimeter rather than building something from scratch, I believe that would save money and increase credibility of the experiment.

Where are you located?  I'm in Utah at present; have a son moving to Missouri (already a place there), and a daughter in the NE. Would you want to be involved in the experiment, present I mean? 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 18, 2012, 09:57:14 PM
Hi Dr. Jones,  It's great to see you here and in communication now with Phil.   Sorry I don't login more often over at the OUR forum or I would have seen your message and replied sooner to you.   I believe Phil is now near Stanford University in California.   

I'll just state for Phil that having seen JouleSeekers (Dr. Jones) posts over the last year or so that I feel he is another very altruistic person with only the best of intentions for humanity and advancing alternative energy.  He has offered at his own expense some rewards to those who are advancing things in alternative energy as well as providing hundreds of solar funnel cookers to people in developing countries at his own expense.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 18, 2012, 10:00:40 PM
Is this the Quenco we are talking about, the things that are supposed to be being manufactured right now at Stanford University in Palo Alto California?

Isn't it a little late for "university validation" since you are supposed to be doing a commercial rollout on... when was the latest postponed date? Nov 30?

And what's the matter with Stanford, anyway.... aren't they a major university, located right smack dab in the bleeding center of Silicon Valley, surrounded by all kinds of chip making plants and out-of-work physicists and EE types?




They are just questions, Leon.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on November 18, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
With Quenco at the brink of launch that experiment which will only lead to a mountain of skepticism and disbelieve and likely fail any peer review process big time is kind of redundant. Why show a microscopic effect when you have the means to go big, very big and dissolve any doubt.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on November 19, 2012, 01:27:16 AM
I think some of you should read the first line I wrote re Steven's offer (where I said in so many words that it is likely moot), and also note that I admitted some time ago that my offer of 25K was a tad petulant given the Quenco's imminent arrival.


However science is science and I see no harm in a university doing an independent experiment when the components are so cheap, in fact it was the issue I had with the raving skeptics and like, that they are so quick to put everything down and totally incapable of doing a $10 experiment at any level of sophistication. The offer by Steven was noted to be late in all this but nonetheless I am not going to act to stifle any experimentation.


On the flip side of this argument is that some will say the Quenco does something other than the Tube device, well for completeness lets have a working Quenco and a working Tube, where is the harm when attacking status Quo to have multiple and differing tests?


BTW it is clearly obvious the snide comments are from those that are so nasty as to want me to fail, sad people that you are. Stanford provides me with facilities, not believers or skeptics, just machines. If you ahd been there you would know it is like a city full of many many projects, almost all hush hush and guarded. The people there are the same as people everywhere else, they are busy with their own things.


Last week I obtained all the materials for the production of 100cm2 of Quenco, this week we hope to actually start what is expected to be about 4 hours of ALD work and a few of PVD. I forgot about Thanksgiving so I am going to need every day up to the 30th to finish, but I am not panicking and believe we will make it with a few days to spare.


I have a number of meeting with licencees coming up and will be providing actual quenco to them so that they can complete the purchase of licences, I also expect to be able to fabricate the power source for a phone though it is really a generic 5.1V usb port power source so it can power almost any tablet or phone. I am going to mount it on the back of either a Nexus 7, or Nexus 4 (currently out of stock).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 19, 2012, 02:54:07 AM
You are wrong about me, if you are indeed snidely referring to my _questions_ as snide comments.

There is nothing in this world I would like better than to see you succeed with real Quencos that perform as you claim. I could only benefit, because after the world-wide revolution it would cause, I will be one of the people with the skills and knowledge to continue to succeed.

If you win, Phil, everyone benefits (the survivors anyway), even me. Your paranoia about people wanting you to fail is just another symptom of your delusional system and doesn't reflect reality. Is there anyone here who genuinely wants Phil to Phail? Iph so, I mean IF SO.... please speak up so he'll know you are real.

If you lose, however..... I mean if you fail to meet your Nov 30 deadline or your Quencos don't work.... not much will change. Not even you.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on November 19, 2012, 04:35:02 AM

I use my real name.


Tinselkola says
Is this the Quenco we are talking about, the things that are supposed to be being manufactured right now at Stanford University in Palo Alto California?Isn't it a little late for "university validation" since you are supposed to be doing a important commercial rollout on... when was the latest postponed date? Nov 30?And what's the matter with Stanford, anyway.... aren't they a major university, located right smack dab in the bleeding center of Silicon Valley, surrounded by all kinds of chip making plants and out-of-work physicists and EE types?
They are just questions, Leon.


Alsetalokin says
Hey, what's to complain about? I see that Professor Steven Jones is trying to arrange for university validation of PJH's experiment. I wonder if they'll be in time for the Nov 30 rollout. I also wonder what Stanford U. -- in the very heart of Silicon Valley, where the population density of EEs and physicist types is greater than anywhere else in the world -- is doing manufacturing something that still needs to be validated by Brigham Young University in Utah before it's accepted as real.

And above this Tinslekola says he is for me and Quenco etc


But on the moletrap Alsetalokin says
Do you suppose those 1 million petrodollars he wants for a license are going to be worth very much if his device were actually to work? Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeze Jeeeeeeeesus let him succeed. I so want this entire world to go down the tubes in internecine strife and upset economies.

Alsetalokin, Tinselkola? whatever you cowardly want to call yourself, you are a 24K evil loser and speak with a forked tongue.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: JouleSeeker on November 19, 2012, 06:51:53 AM
...

However science is science and I see no harm in a university doing an independent experiment when the components are so cheap, in fact it was the issue I had with the raving skeptics and like, that they are so quick to put everything down and totally incapable of doing a $10 experiment at any level of sophistication. The offer by Steven was noted to be late in all this but nonetheless I am not going to act to stifle any experimentation.
...


Agreed, Philip, and thank you.  Let me add that I stand willing to do an "independent experiment" at any time.   I do not wish to pressure you especially with all you have on your plate in the next few weeks.

We have email communication; just let me know when/if you wish to do the independent verification tests at a major university.
--Steven
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 19, 2012, 07:17:27 AM
Yeah, Phil ... and you are wrong. I'd much rather be me, than you.

You can pick up posts in another forum and post them here, but you cannot refute any of my points. The best you can do is to insult me, as you have done here.

Shouldn't you be working? Tick tock, tick tock. What will you say to me when November 30 comes and you cannot demonstrate a cellphone that operates from a Quenco... or even a single LED operating from a Quenco? Will you apologise to me? Of course you won't.

But if you DO produce what you claim, I'll say "I'm sorry Phil, please forgive me" and I'll be genuinely sorry too, because it will be TEOTWAWKI for sure.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2012, 02:06:35 PM
Dear TEOTWAWKI,
 

 an electric wave of a total maximum activity of ten million horse power will be possible with a plant of but 100 horse power, by the use of a magnifying transmitter .
"When the great truth, accidentally revealed and experimentally confirmed, is fully recognized, that this planet, with all its appalling immensity, is to electric currents virtually no more than a small metal ball and that by virtue of this fact many possibilities, each baffling imagination and of incalculable consequence, are rendered absolutely sure of accomplishment; when the first plant is inaugurated and it is shown that a telegraphic message, almost as secret and non-interferable as a thought, can be transmitted to any terrestrial distance, the sound of the human voice, with all its intonations and inflections faithfully and instantly reproduced at any other point of the globe, the energy of a waterfall made available for supplying light, heat or motive power, anywhere...on sea, or land, or high in the air...humanity will be like an ant heap stirred up with a stick. See the excitement coming!"
---------------
Change has been coming for quite some time now!
 
Batteries not included.........
 
Chet
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2012, 03:25:53 PM
an electric wave of a total maximum activity of ten million horse power will be possible with a plant of but 100 horse power, by the use of a magnifying transmitter .
"When the great truth, accidentally revealed and experimentally confirmed, is fully recognized, that this planet, with all its appalling immensity, is to electric currents virtually no more than a small metal ball and that by virtue of this fact many possibilities, each baffling imagination and of incalculable consequence, are rendered absolutely sure of accomplishment; when the first plant is inaugurated and it is shown that a telegraphic message, almost as secret and non-interferable as a thought, can be transmitted to any terrestrial distance, the sound of the human voice, with all its intonations and inflections faithfully and instantly reproduced at any other point of the globe, the energy of a waterfall made available for supplying light, heat or motive power, anywhere...on sea, or land, or high in the air...humanity will be like an ant heap stirred up with a stick. See the excitement coming!"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,742063-3,00.html
[i have conceived] a means that will make it possible for man to transmit energy in large amounts, thousands of horsepower, from one planet to another, absolutely regardless of distance. i think that nothing can be more important than interplanetary communication. it will certainly come some day. and the certitude that there are other human beings in the universe, working, suffering, struggling, like ourselves, will produce a magic effect on mankind and will form the foundation of a universal brotherhood that will last as long as humanity itself. - nikola tesla

"is tesla to signal the stars?". electrical world. april 4, 1896. pp. 369.
the possibility of beckoning martians was the extreme application of [my] principle of propagation of electric waves. - nikola tesla


this is to demonstrate that while tesla did some amazing things, he is not infallible. and... just like every great genius, he has the capacity to make incredibly wrong decisions and conclusions.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Regster on November 19, 2012, 05:16:32 PM
Yeah, Phil ... and you are wrong. I'd much rather be me, than you.

You can pick up posts in another forum and post them here, but you cannot refute any of my points. The best you can do is to insult me, as you have done here.

Shouldn't you be working? Tick tock, tick tock. What will you say to me when November 30 comes and you cannot demonstrate a cellphone that operates from a Quenco... or even a single LED operating from a Quenco? Will you apologise to me? Of course you won't.

But if you DO produce what you claim, I'll say "I'm sorry Phil, please forgive me" and I'll be genuinely sorry too, because it will be TEOTWAWKI for sure.
From an impartial perspective, the answers to your "questions" had been addressed previously and therefore the loaded, rhetorical nature of them do, in fact, make them little more than ill-thought-out, "snide" comments.  Including the "questions" in this quoted post.

I think Phil could do with taking more of a football manager's perspective with communication, since it is not necessary nor expected for one to respond to every drunken rambling coming from a crowd.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: steeltpu on November 19, 2012, 07:07:16 PM
Yeah, Phil ... and you are wrong. I'd much rather be me, than you.

You can pick up posts in another forum and post them here, but you cannot refute any of my points. The best you can do is to insult me, as you have done here.

Shouldn't you be working? Tick tock, tick tock. What will you say to me when November 30 comes and you cannot demonstrate a cellphone that operates from a Quenco... or even a single LED operating from a Quenco? Will you apologise to me? Of course you won't.

But if you DO produce what you claim, I'll say "I'm sorry Phil, please forgive me" and I'll be genuinely sorry too, because it will be TEOTWAWKI for sure.

As usual you are the one who has started insults and NEGATIVITY.  Do you not see that?  So I've got one for you.  You are a Negistor.   Negistor = Resistor of all things positive and hopeful.  Will do anything to turn things negative.  No respect for others.  TK the Negistor,  a selective and especially nasty form of Troll who largely takes on the most hopeful of inventions.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 19, 2012, 07:35:34 PM
Here are some more rhetorical questions for you.

Has PJH ever missed a self-imposed deadline or other projected date?
Have any free energy inventors who succeeded, ever been suppressed by Big Oil, the Banksters, the Military, the Official Secrets Act?
Would the Quenco have any military applications at all? How much does a gallon of jet fuel, delivered to a forward-deployed Apache gunship, cost?
Would a nation that possessed the secret of Quencos have a military or geopolitical advantage at all?
Would there be any motivation for such a nation to maintain their monopoly on Quencos? Would they be motivated to exert export controls, like they do on highspeed cameras, certain computer gear, trigatrons, etc? Secretize the patent(s)? Expropriate everything to do with the product and ship it off to someplace like Area 51?
Does China have advanced chip fabrication facilities, skilled workers, rare-earth mines? How about Israel, or North Korea?

OK, go ahead and continue the insults. (Maybe you could show me just where "I started it". )
But perhaps one or two of you might think about the answers to some of these questions...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 20, 2012, 12:19:52 AM
 :o
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 20, 2012, 12:27:13 AM
Here are some more rhetorical questions for you.

Has PJH ever missed a self-imposed deadline or other projected date?
Have any free energy inventors who succeeded, ever been suppressed by Big Oil, the Banksters, the Military, the Official Secrets Act?
Would the Quenco have any military applications at all? How much does a gallon of jet fuel, delivered to a forward-deployed Apache gunship, cost?
Would a nation that possessed the secret of Quencos have a military or geopolitical advantage at all?
Would there be any motivation for such a nation to maintain their monopoly on Quencos? Would they be motivated to exert export controls, like they do on highspeed cameras, certain computer gear, trigatrons, etc? Secretize the patent(s)? Expropriate everything to do with the product and ship it off to someplace like Area 51?
Does China have advanced chip fabrication facilities, skilled workers, rare-earth mines? How about Israel, or North Korea?

OK, go ahead and continue the insults. (Maybe you could show me just where "I started it". )
But perhaps one or two of you might think about the answers to some of these questions...
LOL - not just one Red Herring but a whole handful.  And you were the one telling me not to pull the MIB card...   
 I think Lumen is seeing the future for TinselKoala
ROTFLOL



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on November 20, 2012, 01:45:05 AM
@tk

With the exception of the 1st question, none of your questions really have any bearing on the likelihood or not of PJH having anything interesting on his hands if the material is fabricated to his specification.

A list of downsides doesn't decrease the likelihood any more than a list of optimistic statements increases it.

As to the 1st question, everyone knows the answer to that is yes, but where does that get you and what point are you making by asking it?

What Id find more interesting personally is how you'd improve upon the test that PJH claims as strong evidence for his theory?

As I understand it, he predicted that there'd be a specific increase of a specific magnitude at a specific temperature, rather than randomly fannying around with things until he found a result he liked, like some madwomen and acolytes of mutual acquaintance.

If that's true (and maybe PJH could assert how close the behaviour was to any prediction) doesn't that warrant a bit more latitude?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 20, 2012, 05:26:12 AM
@mrsean2k:
The first rhetorical question was to remind people that PHJ has made extravagant claims in the past, imposed deadlines and schedules that he has failed to meet. The intention was to try to dampen the unbridled enthusiasm and to predict... yes, predict... that he will once again not be able to meet his projected date. If I am wrong about this, we will know shortly, in good time to head for the hills, I hope.

A couple more of the questions address some of the usual suspects. If there ever has been any suppression of free energy inventors, AND IF Phil has even a remote chance of being right.... why isn't he being suppressed? Since he clearly isn't being suppressed, the point is that either he does not have what he claims and the Powers of Suppression know it.... or he does have what he claims and there is no conspiracy to suppress Free Energy inventors and probably never has been. Either conclusion is perfectly acceptable to me. Are there alternatives?

And the rest of the questions also set up a situation for contemplation. If, for example, Adam Trombley can have his liquid-metal contact system for homopolar generators sequestered by the Federal government because of national security reasons.... why should we expect the USA to act otherwise in the case of Quenco.... IF IT IS REAL? The immediate and necessary applications for Quenco are all military, and it doesn't really take much imagination to tell what they are. Probably five or ten pounds of the gear a modern soldier has hanging about himself consists of various batteries and power supplies for his advanced combat suite. Eliminate that load and replace it with grenades or ammo or more battlefield sensors....  His forward observation drones are limited in range and endurance because of their batteries. His radios and other telecoms, his computer... ditto.  A gallon of jet fuel for a forward-deployed gunship might cost several hundred dollars or even more, to get to where it is needed, and every turbine genset between here and there is competing for and raising the price of that fuel.....
The country with an army that possesses Quenco will have a real military advantage... and will seek to keep that advantage out of the hands of its geopolitical foes.
Yet we are asked to believe that Quenco will be powering cellphones and hearing aids.... when in reality, if it works, it will be powering missiles, sensor suites, surveillance drones, autonomous surface robots and other scary things. Any military that got wind of such a system would be absolutely crazy to let it out of its hands and would be committing suicide if it let it fall into the hands of its enemies.
You cannot even legally export a highspeed video camera from the USA without a lot of paperwork. Special alloy aluminum tubes... .forget about it. Trigatrons.... nope. But Quencos..... sure.

So the net result of my rhetorical questions is hopefully to question the credibility of Quenco as it has been presented. I am perfectly happy to entertain reasons why such a device would NOT be of extreme interest to militaries, and would be a "force multiplier" in any military actions..... or why the USA, a paranoid government if there ever was one, would let such a device, or its inventor, begin selling it around the world, made in USA or contracted to big chipmakers in China. Do you not think, for example, that the Chinese would be extremely interested in such a device and would covet it strongly? Are the North Korean spies in Silicon Valley even now plotting to break into Phil's lab, steal his prototype and notes, and kidnap him for brainwashing?
Since they are not... perhaps they are not interested, and why would that be?

The test that is being discussed is, like I said, a little late, and could much more easily be done on the spot in Palo Alto, than in Utah or elsewhere. But it's moot, isn't it? Why even discuss such a test when the finished product, working to produce usable power from ambient temperature with no lower-temperature sink necessary..... is going to be available in ten or eleven days? Won't the functioning of those devices be proof enough? I don't think you could even set up and perform that test with the necessary rigor in ten days, even if you did work thru Thanksgiving. So why is the test even being proposed? Is it possible that Quenco will need some kind of experimental validation using a pentode and a hot oven, _after_ this first production run is completed and released? Why?

I wasn't going to participate in this thread any more until after Nov 30...  but you asked... so I answered. Now let the insults begin.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on November 20, 2012, 06:22:28 AM
@tk

With the exception of the 1st question, none of your questions really have any bearing on the likelihood or not of PJH having anything interesting on his hands if the material is fabricated to his specification.

A list of downsides doesn't decrease the likelihood any more than a list of optimistic statements increases it.

As to the 1st question, everyone knows the answer to that is yes, but where does that get you and what point are you making by asking it?

What Id find more interesting personally is how you'd improve upon the test that PJH claims as strong evidence for his theory?

As I understand it, he predicted that there'd be a specific increase of a specific magnitude at a specific temperature, rather than randomly fannying around with things until he found a result he liked, like some madwomen and acolytes of mutual acquaintance.

If that's true (and maybe PJH could assert how close the behaviour was to any prediction) doesn't that warrant a bit more latitude?

As strong evidence for his theory, PJH too easy goes irritated in his response to critics.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: catbauer24 on November 20, 2012, 06:26:51 AM
@TK, no insult, just curious though...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 20, 2012, 07:35:13 AM
@Cat.... hmmmm...... well, yes, I'd have to say that I do....
 ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: catbauer24 on November 20, 2012, 08:25:43 AM
...
But if you DO produce what you claim, I'll say "I'm sorry Phil, please forgive me" and I'll be genuinely sorry too, because it will be TEOTWAWKI for sure.

Are you saying you'd rather a disruptive technology not come out, or have it phased in over decades so as to produce the least benefit over the longest amount of time?  The military knew the application of transistors (errr... how about all microprocessors these days?)  Basically, every country has the ability to match the US drone capability... minus the technical integration ability.  All the info is out there for anyone to do it, the problem is people with the know-how are nearly all citizens of the democratic world.  So, the nation with the sharpest 'tech' edge wins out, regardless of energy.  Techy / science people rather dislike working for dictators due to the 'pressure' they are under... aka their life depends on success.  And N. Korea wonders why their missile program is a joke?  There may be a few scientist to put their lives up for their dictators, otherwise, nearly all head to greener pastures.  They are smart after all, right?  So, the free world is safe after all, no need to sweat TK.  Sheehan works out in the open on SLV in a uni setting, minus ostracization from a lot of his peers, there are others too so Hardcastle is not the first to work in this area, or even claim to 'have done it', case in point the tube test.  He claims a bigger effect, as you point out, has not been interdependently verified, as he (group?) is working towards.  So yes Phil can be criticized for past expectations, and for getting uneasy about you / others pushing his buttons, at the end of the day he's not soliciting funds, so we wait, and the while, you can make fun of him, and we can make fun of your doomsday predictions and years of underunity work.  At least he's not playing with magnets, or confused about how they work, right?   ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on November 20, 2012, 01:17:58 PM
You know, sometimes, almost in spite of myself, I find myself having respect for TK. No one can deny that he is a knowlegeable and Educated man. He asks some pertinent questions sometimes. I guess its just a shame he never went to Charm School.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 20, 2012, 07:01:20 PM
@mrsean2k:
The first rhetorical question was to remind people that PHJ has made extravagant claims in the past, imposed deadlines and schedules that he has failed to meet. The intention was to try to dampen the unbridled enthusiasm and to predict... yes, predict... that he will once again not be able to meet his projected date. If I am wrong about this, we will know shortly, in good time to head for the hills, I hope.

A couple more of the questions address some of the usual suspects. If there ever has been any suppression of free energy inventors, AND IF Phil has even a remote chance of being right.... why isn't he being suppressed? Since he clearly isn't being suppressed, the point is that either he does not have what he claims and the Powers of Suppression know it.... or he does have what he claims and there is no conspiracy to suppress Free Energy inventors and probably never has been. Either conclusion is perfectly acceptable to me. Are there alternatives?

And the rest of the questions also set up a situation for contemplation. If, for example, Adam Trombley can have his liquid-metal contact system for homopolar generators sequestered by the Federal government because of national security reasons.... why should we expect the USA to act otherwise in the case of Quenco.... IF IT IS REAL? The immediate and necessary applications for Quenco are all military, and it doesn't really take much imagination to tell what they are. Probably five or ten pounds of the gear a modern soldier has hanging about himself consists of various batteries and power supplies for his advanced combat suite. Eliminate that load and replace it with grenades or ammo or more battlefield sensors....  His forward observation drones are limited in range and endurance because of their batteries. His radios and other telecoms, his computer... ditto.  A gallon of jet fuel for a forward-deployed gunship might cost several hundred dollars or even more, to get to where it is needed, and every turbine genset between here and there is competing for and raising the price of that fuel.....
The country with an army that possesses Quenco will have a real military advantage... and will seek to keep that advantage out of the hands of its geopolitical foes.
Yet we are asked to believe that Quenco will be powering cellphones and hearing aids.... when in reality, if it works, it will be powering missiles, sensor suites, surveillance drones, autonomous surface robots and other scary things. Any military that got wind of such a system would be absolutely crazy to let it out of its hands and would be committing suicide if it let it fall into the hands of its enemies.
You cannot even legally export a highspeed video camera from the USA without a lot of paperwork. Special alloy aluminum tubes... .forget about it. Trigatrons.... nope. But Quencos..... sure.

So the net result of my rhetorical questions is hopefully to question the credibility of Quenco as it has been presented. I am perfectly happy to entertain reasons why such a device would NOT be of extreme interest to militaries, and would be a "force multiplier" in any military actions..... or why the USA, a paranoid government if there ever was one, would let such a device, or its inventor, begin selling it around the world, made in USA or contracted to big chipmakers in China. Do you not think, for example, that the Chinese would be extremely interested in such a device and would covet it strongly? Are the North Korean spies in Silicon Valley even now plotting to break into Phil's lab, steal his prototype and notes, and kidnap him for brainwashing?
Since they are not... perhaps they are not interested, and why would that be?

The test that is being discussed is, like I said, a little late, and could much more easily be done on the spot in Palo Alto, than in Utah or elsewhere. But it's moot, isn't it? Why even discuss such a test when the finished product, working to produce usable power from ambient temperature with no lower-temperature sink necessary..... is going to be available in ten or eleven days? Won't the functioning of those devices be proof enough? I don't think you could even set up and perform that test with the necessary rigor in ten days, even if you did work thru Thanksgiving. So why is the test even being proposed? Is it possible that Quenco will need some kind of experimental validation using a pentode and a hot oven, _after_ this first production run is completed and released? Why?

I wasn't going to participate in this thread any more until after Nov 30...  but you asked... so I answered. Now let the insults begin.
I could punch a lot of holes in your assumptions and conclusions but I don't want to take the time to do all that.  You are a smart enough person to figure some of them out but I believe you are blinded by a prejudice against Phil or maybe it's just against anyone making claims in certain situations.  Have you never built any big projects?  I've designed and built some very large projects and I assumed I could finish within a certain time frame.  These were projects that took over a year to complete and while most people were surprised I was able to finish in the time I did I was repeatedly disappointed that I was taking longer than expected.   It's difficult to see every detail of a big project and all the little snags that can happen.  It is actually rare that I've built anything or repaired anything that didn't take longer than I expected with the exception of a couple fields where I seem to be exceptionally gifted.   I'm certainly not alone in that as I see people and projects missing deadlines all the time.  It's a big project Phil has and one he's been at for 14 years IIRC.  So I find no surprise at all that some expected deadlines aren't met.


 Regarding your conclusion on suppression I see a number of other alternatives.  Times are changing.   That's one thanks to the Internet.   It could also be that the people watching do not yet know if Quenco is valid so they are waiting to see before making any big moves.  Or maybe they already think it only has potential in very low power apps.  And since Phil is not an American I'm not sure if that might play into preventing our government from seizing the concept but it may come into play.   It could also be that our government finally sees more need for alternative power.  There are so many other conclusions that it is simply not an either this or that as you have stated.  I'm fairly certain no interested parties are going to want to interrupt things until they see an actual working unit and details of a real world economically feasible plan to produce it.  I'm sure there are even better conclusions than what popped into my morning fog so far ;)
I'm also fairly certain that if something this potentially big was seized it would have every available scientist in the world trying to duplicate it.   
If you look at most past inventions that have come into the 'free energy zone' it was not until after they were being openly shown that suppression began taking place. 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on November 20, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
Cool down, guys. November the 30th is near. At last we'll go to heaven, for sure. ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 20, 2012, 10:57:58 PM
Sorry... I just can't resist.

@Cat: you are comparing Quenco to transistors. A more appropriate comparison, wrt its world-changing effect and its importance to science, would be to the atomic bomb or the discovery of radioactivity. It will be even more militarily significant, though, because atomic bombs are only good for one thing: deterrence and large scale destruction. Quenco will be immediately used on all battlefields on this poor Earth as soon as it is available to the combatants, if they are using anything more sophisticated than machetes and burning-tire necklaces.

Why don't you take a look at Boston Dynamics and some of the robots they build. They have one that's about the size of a toy truck that is semiautonomous and can jump over a 10-foot tall chainlink fence. Right now, its operational range and endurance is limited by its power supply. Power it with Quencos and its range and endurance will be unlimited, and it can carry a payload of, say, 500 grams of cheddar cheese to wherever you like, burrow into the ground and wait....and wait..... and wait...... for years if necessary until some hungry rodent comes by. Just for one example. I'm sure you can think of other interesting things besides cheddar cheese it could be carrying.

@neptune: I almost respect you too, even though I know a lot less about you than you do about me.   ;)

@e2matrix: I have no problem with projects that take a long time for completion, longer than the participants anticipated or planned for. I have a problem with people who constantly miss deadlines and fail over and over to demonstrate what they claim. And I'm sure whoever contracted you for your project would have also felt the same way.
I learned a long time ago that the way to make customers happy is to promise them a _LATER_ completion date than you think you can manage. Then, when you finish in, say, two weeks, but you told them three, you call up and deliver one week ahead of schedule and everyone is happy, word gets around and you get more business. But if you promised one week, and you  finish the same project in two weeks.... your customer will think you are late and unreliable, word gets around and you lose business. Yet you finished the same project in the same amount of time in each case.

Quote
I'm also fairly certain that if something this potentially big was seized it would have every available scientist in the world trying to duplicate it.
Sort of like how they are trying to duplicate the atomic bomb, or Rossi's "Ecat"?
But I do agree with you: the seizure would give the Quenco so much "street cred" that it would push a lot of people over the edge and cause them to pay more attention. So the non-seizure is a clever use of reverse psychology by the Forces of Suppression to make sure nobody works on Quenco, by pretending it's insignificant. Right?
On the other hand, the nonseizure might indicate what I'm implying that it means: non-significance, non-importance to national security. And I believe that I've shown that a power source like Quenco claims to be... even "low power" enough to power a cellphone... will have truly great military significance, and that's not the only NS consequence or implication.
Quote
 
If you look at most past inventions that have come into the 'free energy zone' it was not until after they were being openly shown that suppression began taking place.
I'd like to know how you know that.  You are telling me that suppression only happens after the fact of public knowledge, because we know only of suppressions that happened after the fact. If suppression were effective before the fact of publication .... you and I would not know of it at all. So we have no way of knowing how many free energy projects and inventors have been suppressed before they made their discoveries public.... do we? Unless that is, you are the one doing the suppression.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 21, 2012, 12:03:30 AM
TIN

Of course Quenco power chips can be used as part of a weapon, I wonder how many people have been killed by electric cars already?

Probably less then have died in that time period of hunger or thirst.

Cheap Quenco power will be able to supply fresh water and food to everybody, even in deserts water can be condensed from the air.

Plastics can be made from air as well with enough energy to utilise, as well as fuel if it is ever needed.

It will take several years for Quenco to be the main producer of power for the world, in that time a foundation will be set up, hopefully not just to help end extreme poverty and lack of education but to use Quenco to make the world a nicer and friendlier place.

You never know for a small fee I might even manage to get you on the foundation. ;D

Just think an engineer who thinks the second law of thermodynamics is sacrosanct becoming a Quenco convert and helping to design a type one civilisation.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Regster on November 21, 2012, 03:18:31 AM
@TK: You are over/under thinking this.  Phil has already published enough information to enable any organisation that does not have to abide by commercial rules to make/use it with a little trial and error (in terms of exact materials).   Everyone with an interest in this subject has seen the various permutations of his website so it's too late for "suppression".

In defence of the "dark forces", they are just guys looking after their familes like we are and I think you are giving "them" less credit than "they" deserve by implying that the only tactic they ever had was "suppression".  Maybe it was possible a couple of decades ago to delete a couple of people and that's it all done, but not now.

You seem to be sure that other forms of alternative energy have been "suppressed".  If that were true, and considering that the "dark forces" are certainly (collectively (it's a group thing)) a lot more intelligent than you are, what would you (in a method acting attempt at being the combined minds of several CotC PhDs and their highly intelligent employers) think "their" plans would be - considering that "they" (according to you) already have all that "suppressed" information/technology - in the event that something valid and practically open-sourced that they could not "suppress" came to light?

And before you embarrass yourself by answering I'll do you a favour.... that isn't a question, it's just a snidey comment.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 21, 2012, 05:50:34 AM
@TK: You are over/under thinking this.  Phil has already published enough information to enable any organisation that does not have to abide by commercial rules to make/use it with a little trial and error (in terms of exact materials).   Everyone with an interest in this subject has seen the various permutations of his website so it's too late for "suppression".
Has anyone, anywhere, working in any laboratory for anybody, or even in his or her garage.... has anyone been able to replicate PJH's work and come to the same conclusions he has?
Quote
In defence of the "dark forces", they are just guys looking after their familes like we are and I think you are giving "them" less credit than "they" deserve by implying that the only tactic they ever had was "suppression".  Maybe it was possible a couple of decades ago to delete a couple of people and that's it all done, but not now.
The USA sequesters patents under National Security reasons every year, and the rate of them doing this varies from year to year but is never zero. Most of these inventions, I presume, have military applications, and I'll bet you my next paycheck that none of them are nearly as significant as Quenco. No new science, IOW, in these suppressed patents.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.html
I don't know about the other kinds of suppression.... see below. Nor do we, as the American People, have the right to know what _nonpatented_ inventions have experienced this kind of action.... because nobody has to tell us, like they do for the patented ones.
Quote
You seem to be sure that other forms of alternative energy have been "suppressed".  If that were true, and considering that the "dark forces" are certainly (collectively (it's a group thing)) a lot more intelligent than you are, what would you (in a method acting attempt at being the combined minds of several CotC PhDs and their highly intelligent employers) think "their" plans would be - considering that "they" (according to you) already have all that "suppressed" information/technology - in the event that something valid and practically open-sourced that they could not "suppress" came to light?
Do you think from my comments that I actually DO believe in the kinds of "suppression" that people _claim_ are keeping Free Energy inventions from freeing the world of the Tyranny of Big Oil? Is English your first language, or am I just not being clear? I think I said right out in plain words, that either PJH has what he claims and there is no suppression conspiracy, or he does not have what he claims....  in which case neither the US national security apparatus nor any other suppression agents will give a flying fish about it, whether or not a suppression conspiracy exists. Either way it's OK with me.
Quote
And before you embarrass yourself by answering I'll do you a favour.... that isn't a question, it's just a snidey comment.
It's a very long snidey comment, TLDR. Just kidding. The best zingers are short and sweet.
But why should I be embarrassed? I'm not the one making extravagant claims without support.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: catbauer24 on November 21, 2012, 08:19:56 AM
....Quenco will be immediately used on all battlefields on this poor Earth as soon as it is available to the combatants, if they are using anything more sophisticated than machetes and burning-tire necklaces.
....

Please promise us you'll do everything you can so that the world is not subjected to such a deadly thing as free energy!!  At least you have convinced everyone it is a terrible idea... if you keep your work up we'll be safe for sure...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 21, 2012, 11:23:43 AM
Heh.... no, there are many kinds of free energy that won't be useful on the Battlefield Earth or be destabilising. Rossi's 1 MW Ecat, the ZED, any gravity wheel.... bring it on, I ain't worried, we are not going to see Ecat powered missiles or gravity-wheel main battle tanks.... A HoJoMo in every fighter jet, the Sword of God as the depot-level powerplant in the rear, Little Miss Mosfet heaters providing hot showers for the troops, Orbo-powered CD players and electric razors.
But something like Quenco.... gives one pause, for sure. Personally I'd like to see an upheaval in the status quo, until I remember what suffering it will cause. Then I think that maybe Quenco is the key to Pandora's Box (or jar). Open it, and you mightn't like everything that comes flying out, and for sure you won't be able to stuff it back inside.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on November 21, 2012, 11:59:17 AM

Philip Hardcastle
He has made ​​great strides.


Yeah, it underestimated the time to implement his invention, and we all happened and understandably, knowing that he works with machines that lend at universities, there is a whole bureaucracy, besides the technical details, but has made great strides in a short time.


How many of us have heard of great ideas that work in a laboratory, but it takes many years and a large budget when being deployed commercially, Philip has done all this without asking for a dime from anyone, all with their own money , risking not only their live but their financial future.


It also has a patent in a few months will be in everyone's hands.


If Philip delay the launch day, I'll understand. He is spending time and money, I only spending a short time reading and writing a few lines of text. (I also damaged oven and melted two tubes, proving that it is true the experiment proposed by Philip).


Yes I share with all, the fear that Quenco, be used for purposes of mass destruction, but there is no way to prevent this, the only thing we can do is educate the human being, to learn from history it's much better, the path of personal sacrifice for the common good, that the path of war and mutual destruction.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: ramset on November 21, 2012, 03:07:50 PM
Sounds more like a challenge of a different flavor.........
 
We all know the right thing to do ,..In some ways we always have !
 
The fact that 5 billion plus souls on this rock can't voice an opinion here, due to the fact that just surviving from day to day is all consuming [never mind no infrastructure, medicine, clean water, etc].
 The fact that their needs and lives could be enhanced ?
 
The challenge is to us ,the "haves"  [the real one percent].
 
Great machines sit idling ....potentials being wasted , whole industries dissapear from our midst.. Void of productivity. Save  for the possibility of resource,  the resource that eludes us  do to an old business model of greed and selfishness..........
 
Fear thats very easy to come by [ pandoras box], when Faith is in short supply!
 
We have a huge need placed in front of us .. A demand for goods and services!,
A market that the greedy would pray for...[ a market of 5 billion plus]
 
You wan't to change the world ?
 
 be that change!!
 
What works will you do?  Will you leave your fate in the hands of fear?
 
I hope not........
 
Thx
Chet
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 21, 2012, 04:43:57 PM
It looks like a fear of change is creeping in.
Tk says he can adapt, but yet he is the first showing signs of "future shock".

Relax TK, it will all be over soon.

I don't think the US will have much luck sequestering an international patent from Australia.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 21, 2012, 05:01:03 PM
It looks like a fear of change is creeping in.
Tk says he can adapt, but yet he is the first showing signs of "future shock".
Yawn. Wake me up when the future arrives.
Quote

Relax TK, it will all be over soon.
Soon....soon.... where have I heard that before?
Just as all electrical free energy devices need batteries, real working free energy devices are always going to appear..... soon.

Quote

I don't think the US will have much luck sequestering an international patent from Australia.

Those who do not remember history, are doomed to repeat it.

If PHJ had stayed in Australia and used the fine facilities there to produce his product, and the universities there to test it..... I'd tend to agree with you. But he's in Silicon Valley, and travels at the pleasure of the US Government as long as he's within the borders. "Your papers please" is no longer the cliche from old war movies, said by the jack-booted Nazi thug to the frightened Jewish grandmother. It's a daily event in the USA.... you have to prove who you are and your right to travel several times a day nowadays, and if you go by air..... you may despair.
What good is a patent -- or rather, a patent _application_ , even a public one, if no one can use the information in it to make anything that works?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on November 21, 2012, 05:14:26 PM
If Quenco's one square millimeter have power of five kilowatts, I'm afraid of ants when they accidentally get to a future warehouse stock; good story for a science - fiction writer.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 21, 2012, 05:42:51 PM
<snip<
@e2matrix: I have no problem with projects that take a long time for completion, longer than the participants anticipated or planned for. I have a problem with people who constantly miss deadlines and fail over and over to demonstrate what they claim. And I'm sure whoever contracted you for your project would have also felt the same way.
I learned a long time ago that the way to make customers happy is to promise them a _LATER_ completion date than you think you can manage. Then, when you finish in, say, two weeks, but you told them three, you call up and deliver one week ahead of schedule and everyone is happy, word gets around and you get more business. But if you promised one week, and you  finish the same project in two weeks.... your customer will think you are late and unreliable, word gets around and you lose business. Yet you finished the same project in the same amount of time in each case.
Sort of like how they are trying to duplicate the atomic bomb, or Rossi's "Ecat"?
But I do agree with you: the seizure would give the Quenco so much "street cred" that it would push a lot of people over the edge and cause them to pay more attention. So the non-seizure is a clever use of reverse psychology by the Forces of Suppression to make sure nobody works on Quenco, by pretending it's insignificant. Right?
On the other hand, the nonseizure might indicate what I'm implying that it means: non-significance, non-importance to national security. And I believe that I've shown that a power source like Quenco claims to be... even "low power" enough to power a cellphone... will have truly great military significance, and that's not the only NS consequence or implication.I'd like to know how you know that.  You are telling me that suppression only happens after the fact of public knowledge, because we know only of suppressions that happened after the fact. If suppression were effective before the fact of publication .... you and I would not know of it at all. So we have no way of knowing how many free energy projects and inventors have been suppressed before they made their discoveries public.... do we? Unless that is, you are the one doing the suppression.
Just to clarify I learned well from Star Trek's Scotty too - never tell them how long it will really take or how much you can give -- always overstate how long or understate how much you can give.  But these big projects were for myself.

As far as suppression I'm not saying they all were suppressed only after becoming public -- just that many of them have gone that path.  I believe there are a many that may have been suppressed before going public however unless someone or the government is made aware of them the won't know to suppress them, i.e. there must be awareness before someone can take action.  I was mulling over some stories from the past and there are a lot where something seemed to be real  but then the inventor was killed, bought out and invention shelved, or paid off to go away.   I'll admit I haven't had the opportunity to verify all of those but there seems to be a lot of evidence to support that is what often happens and in a couple cases I have had personal contact with inventors to hear that is what happens. 

    However I think Quenco has enough interest from very big money companies that can benefit greatly from it that this will not likely take the same path as other inventions.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on November 21, 2012, 05:56:14 PM
Heh.... no, there are many kinds of free energy that won't be useful on the Battlefield Earth or be destabilising. Rossi's 1 MW Ecat, the ZED, any gravity wheel.... bring it on, I ain't worried, we are not going to see Ecat powered missiles or gravity-wheel main battle tanks.... A HoJoMo in every fighter jet, the Sword of God as the depot-level powerplant in the rear, Little Miss Mosfet heaters providing hot showers for the troops, Orbo-powered CD players and electric razors.
But something like Quenco.... gives one pause, for sure. Personally I'd like to see an upheaval in the status quo, until I remember what suffering it will cause. Then I think that maybe Quenco is the key to Pandora's Box (or jar). Open it, and you mightn't like everything that comes flying out, and for sure you won't be able to stuff it back inside.

I see a whole different reality.  One where there are no more reasons for wars or greed.  One in which governments become much less important.  Everyone has the opportunity for self sufficiency.   Robotics would take off big time and create a huge industry since they could do all the hard work with self contained power packs.   I could go on for a long while but I'll just say Imagine this :

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Imagine(d) by  John Lennon
Brought to you by Quenco  :)

Ideally I would probably change a couple things in Lennon's lyrics but you get the idea.   There is a better world to be had if we start imagining it.   I'll say again a very important universal truth : you EMPOWER that which you focus on. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on November 21, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
I see a whole different reality.  One where there are no more reasons for wars or greed.  One in which governments become much less important.

You must be five years old... well, maybe six: after all, you already know how to write. Tell me something about Santa Claus...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 21, 2012, 10:12:32 PM
I see more and more people living on the sea, people fed up with government telling what they can do, will once the infrastructures are in place, choose to build their own habitats on the ocean either semi fixed or fully mobile.

Even floating Hong Kongs. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on November 21, 2012, 11:08:16 PM
When all the people who sit around imagining the world of peace that John talked about _stop hiring politicians and generals who want war_..... then maybe it will happen.

Those people, though, are all full of love, have no weapons, eat vegetables for dinner, and make love. Meanwhile, the politicians, generals and Military-Industrial-Ikea complex depend for their livelihood on warfare, constant and simmering at low levels but which could "blow up" at any time.

If the generals and the peaceniks were to have a cage-fight.... who would you bet on?

"Right".... doesn't make might. "Peace" in Lennon's vision is seen as nothing more than a power vacuum by despots all over the world. We are human beings, we have millions of years of evolutionary history of bonking our neighbors over the head with big sticks, stealing their meat and their women, and trying to utterly wipe them out. The ones of us who were the best at that, survived to reproduce.... and then we learned to talk. It's been pretty much all downhill from there.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 22, 2012, 12:20:42 AM
'right in two' by tool:

angels on the sideline
puzzled and amused.
why did father give these humans free will?
now they're all confused.

don't these talking monkeys know that eden has enough to go around?
plenty in this holy garden, silly old monkeys,
where there's one you're bound to divide it
right in two

angels on the sideline
baffled and confused
father blessed them all with reason.
and this is what they choose.
monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground

silly monkeys give them thumbs,
they forge a blade, and where there's one they're bound to divide it
right in two.
right in two.

monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground
silly monkeys give them thumbs, they make a club
and beat their brother down.
how they survive so misguided is a mystery.
repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here

cut and divide it all right in two
cut and divide it all right in two
cut and divide it all right in two
cut and divide it all right in two

fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky and
fight over life, over blood, over air and light,
over love, over sun, over another.
they fight till they die over words, polarizing.

angels on the sideline again
been so long with patience and reason
angels on the sideline again
wondering when this tug of war will end

cut and divide it all right in two
cut and divide it all right in two
cut and divide it all right in two
cut and divide it all right in two
right in two
right in two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLjrD-oXkhA
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: minnie on November 22, 2012, 12:33:28 AM
Hi,
  I think that if a new form of cheap energy were to come along on Nov. 30 that it would probably take decades for it to filter
through. Everyone knows how to make and handle the stuff we've known for so long.  Change would have to be quite slow
because most of us couldn't afford new equipment, and manufacturing involves long term investment which couldn't be
scrapped over night.
                   Something needs to happen and fairly soon. I think that "fracking" is just going that bit too far, seems
to me we've messed up the atmosphere, now we're attacking the very earth itself,
                                                                                                        John.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on November 22, 2012, 12:03:02 PM
Hi Everybody!

I am new to the forum but have many years experience in electronics in industry (electronic engineering within a semiconductor company). I currently run my own company in Cambridge, UK. I am not a physicist but do have limited knowledge and some good common sense (electronics HW is my thing) :)

I know this is probably a sore point at the moment (I know TK has had a hard time by lots of people for asking sensible questions - sorry TK, I know its frustrating to ask standard stuff but be reprimanded because of it - in real industry its normal to ask questions and normal to be skeptical) but I have to ask the following:

1. Does anyone have a link to a video showing quenco working - I know videos can conceal reality but it would be a good start!
2. Is the 30th Nov still on? If so, the quenco should already be manufactured otherwise he will likely need to reschedule.
3. He is working with Stanford Uni - have Stanford disclosed the relationship? If so, does anyone have a link?
4. To pull 20kW from a cm tile (as quoted as being possible) of quenco causes a lot of basic (to an engineer) issues. At, say a 10V output, this would equate to 2,000Amps. I havent done the math but thats a monster bit of cable to connect to a small tile. If we think differently and go for a 1V output then thats 20,000Amps - yikes! Once a bit of cable IS connected to the tile then the contact resistance (the resistance of the join between cable and quenco) will cause a massive increase in heat due to I2R losses. Has this been addressed?
5. There are devices appearing which harvest energy from heat fluctuations. Could the quenco effect simply be measurement errors and in fact its a number of small gradients over many surfaces (layers of quenco). If so, I am not so sure that 'layering up' the quenco will have any net benefit since the outer layers will insulate the inner ones. This is all speculation by me, I am no physicist and dont fully understand the mechanism behind how quenco is proposed to work. Does anyone know a physicist who can comment? PJH doesnt count, needs to be a 3rd party.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/21/thermal-nanotechnology-harvest-electricity/

SO, there you have it, my first post on OU - dont be too harsh, there arent any weird questions above - just sensible ones which havent been answered yet! Would love to get more answers!!!

Also, really, if he hasnt got the quenco manufactured as of today its not going to be much of a show on the 30th IMO  - manufacturing a 2nm film and packaging it such that its possible to connect even a small wire to it aint trivial.

For the record, I am a skeptic but desperately want to be proven wrong....please :)

Thanks for listening!

MBM
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 23, 2012, 01:39:47 AM
Madebymonkeys (http://www.overunity.com/profile/madebymonkeys.76803/)Hi, the last I heard Phil was still going for Nov. 30th but not being an American he overlooked the thanksgiving break which puts him under more pressure with less time then he thought.
He tried to get Quenco chip fabricated in Australia but unfortunately couldn't get the nano levels of a low work function metal oxide centimetre area chip flat enough.
So he went (at his own cost) to try to get a smaller less ambitious chip made at Staford University.
He and others tested his theory on a pentode ingeniously trying to block out all obvious sources of the micro current they got between thermo homogenous electrodes. (no cold sink).
I also really wish him and us all well.





 


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on November 23, 2012, 06:15:42 AM
The way I understand all the events up to this point is that he has already determined ALD and PVD times and the process is proven to work.

He has then ordered enough material to make a larger quantity for distribution to the licensees and to construct the demo device for the launch on Nov 30. (I believe he had the material at some time last week NOV 12 or so)

These are only single layer chips about 3mm diameter and the demo device will require about 25 to 50 chips to reach the 5.1v @ 3 amps required for the demo device.

Multilayer chips will be made as some point to get the voltage up to 50-100v but the process for this will be left to the chip manufactures.

That's the way I see everything up to this point!


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on November 23, 2012, 10:23:52 PM
Thanks guys,

You know, if he went for a larger tile he could have had it profiled and sliced the 'flattest', best parts out of the 'die'. Nobody goes for broke and tries to fabricate individual parts although this is a new process I guess.

I know the 30th is just round the corner when the big reveal will happen but, assuming nothing happens, can anyone shed more light on my questions?

With multilayer chips could these simply be stacked with insulators between? Sounds relatively easy. The interconnect and packaging hasn't been mentioned though?

Thanks.

MBM
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on November 23, 2012, 10:58:36 PM
@madebymonkeys

1- No, there is no working videos of quenco at this time, we hope this for the launch day !
2-  Be patience, the November 30 is the day.
3- Philip is working with the university of stanford, but not for the university, is a development with Philip own budget.
4- the 10kw from a single cm2 of quenco, is for hi voltage like 100v or 200V with hundreds of Quenco layers,  yes we know the problem to get out this quantity of power, but is just engineering, the biggest problem is the way to put so many heat in a single cm2.  Yes a lot of people here and philip know about the ohm law of current.
5- No the quenco dont work by fluctuations of heat (one side cold the another one side hot), quenco work in single hot reservoir (ambient heat).  Quenco work by thermionic and quantum tunnel mechanics.
6- Multilayer is another engineering problem for the quenco research and development center.

The problem know is have a Quenco single layer, all our best wishes for the success of Philip in november 30 2012, This is a invention that will easy the transition for a new society based in the human in harmony with the Nature !  God Bless Philip!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on November 26, 2012, 05:17:03 PM
The main site now says there will be a weeks delay in the launch.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: not_a_mib on November 26, 2012, 07:46:51 PM
The launch will probably get delayed until December 21 so that it can fulfill the ancient Mayan prophecy of great change on that day.

Patience is a virtue worth waiting for!

P.S.  Is it really true that the Yanks talk funny and drive on the wrong side of the road?  Being one myself, I could never tell if this is really true.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 26, 2012, 08:00:13 PM
I am surprised that there has not been more discussion of the possible physics at work in the device.  It would appear to of course use electron tunneling.  BUT the very interesting thing that Phillips seems to have understood and put into place, is that the thinner the material, the greater the probablilty of tunneling.  Very interesting  indeed.  This would explain why the thinner the material, the greater the output.  And then they are stacked of course.  The entire subject of electron tunneling is facinating indeed!
 
Press on, Phillip!
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on November 27, 2012, 01:11:05 AM
Hi all

We are moving ahead, and Philip has the required materials and is manufacturing the first Quencos.

As we said before, a delay in the launch is more than acceptable, Philip is making a huge effort bringing this important development to reality in record time.


This is my update for the Ten licences: 1- Intel corporation, 2- Samsung electronics, 3- TSMC, 4- Global Foundries, 5- STMicroelectronics, 6- UMC, 7- Texas Instruments, 8- LG electronics, 9- Qualcomm, 10- Nvidia.    In the line up are Hynix, Micron, Infineon, Freescale, Toshiba semiconductor.  Also can include Google, Apple.  Anyone of this companies will pay billions for a licence.

All the best !!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on November 27, 2012, 08:36:58 AM
Meanwhile, something in subject:

http://www.phys.washington.edu/users/cobden/papers/Glazman_dot_review.pdf
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on November 30, 2012, 11:09:32 PM
Hi Guys,

Looks like we have a delay, it's now the 12th December :(
An update from Philip would be useful right now stating whether there has been any useful data obtained by the previously built prototypes.

PJH - how about an update? I know you are busy but there are lots of people here hoping this ain't all snake oil!

Thanks.

MBM
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: wideyed_tutank on December 01, 2012, 06:39:00 AM
@MBM
The following info is also available at the same site you visited:

"The launch will be when the device is finished + a few days to allow for photos etc
There will be a post here as soon as they are completed.
Production is under way this week, if this method works we will have Quenco's"

Which language would you like me to translate that into?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 01, 2012, 09:36:42 AM
Yeah, I saw the info on the site, well done for spotting it too. I also saw very similar text and assurance of manufacturing 'in process' etc etc in previous posts and on the website.

Some work has apparently been done on manufacturing (see previous posts) - some useful data would have been generated, whether it be how to change the manufacturing process or that it simply doesn't work quite right.

So far there has been no data, images, comment offered regarding what's really happening at Stanford - good or bad!

The patent application is filed and a priority date should have been set (I tried to find the application number for the patent but missed it - do you have it?). Some basic info can be shared!

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=AvantGo&op=ReadStory&sid=3430

PJH doesn't work for the guys on this forum but we are all keen to know what's happening - we want it to work but he needs a lesson in managing expectations. It sounds like he isn't sure that the next manufacturing run will produce working Quenco but he gives a date of 12th Dec! More info on the 'external issues/problems' issues would just be good.

I want to believe - there is just no information TO believe at the moment, just a pipe dream!

What is your general feeling about the Quenco project?

Thanks.
MBM
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 01, 2012, 01:41:20 PM
Made By Magnetic Mary,


Why does he need to manage anyone's expectations? Why, given the history so far, aren't you just managing your own?


If anyone has high expectations, and then subsequently feel disadvantaged in some way that those expectations aren't met, it's their responsibility to revise their expectations.
Getting Things Done is difficult, punditry isn't.


If there's any behaviour that qualifies as interesting when it's manufactured to spec., it'll be interesting whether it's on time or not.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: wideyed_tutank on December 02, 2012, 12:05:43 AM
@MBM,


I am OK with how the Quenco project is chugging along.  If you have never had a schedule change on a project then you have not been aggressive enough with the scheduling.


Quenco will eventually rock the world.   Right now your time and mine will be better spent figuring out methods to feed Quenco with high thermal energy from the ambient when it is ready.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 02, 2012, 09:35:33 AM
Made By Magnetic Mary,


Why does he need to manage anyone's expectations? Why, given the history so far, aren't you just managing your own?


If anyone has high expectations, and then subsequently feel disadvantaged in some way that those expectations aren't met, it's their responsibility to revise their expectations.
Getting Things Done is difficult, punditry isn't.


Hi,

Given the history so far I will be revising my expectations.
My comment about him managing expectations was made in order to help him 'preserve his credibility' - I am well aware of how difficult it is to get some things done, I am also well aware that guessing when they may be done, without any prior knowledge of what's involved, is silly.

The amazing claims about Quenco have been made to this forum, it would be great to have an update with some info (not a cut&paste of the website) helping us understand why the delays keep happening.

All I am asking for is an update from PJH although he is probably a busy man.

Thanks.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 02, 2012, 09:41:49 AM
@MBM,


I am OK with how the Quenco project is chugging along.  If you have never had a schedule change on a project then you have not been aggressive enough with the scheduling.


Quenco will eventually rock the world.   Right now your time and mine will be better spent figuring out methods to feed Quenco with high thermal energy from the ambient when it is ready.

I have had schedule changes on almost all of my projects, mostly bringing timescales in though. Being aggressive with scheduling is fine.....but so is contingency!

I agree about getting the thermal energy into the quenco - tricky challenge.

If everyone is to 'put their heads together' and solve challenges like the one you mention we should try to get the challenges defined by PJH. People, I suspect, would be happy to help - we just need some basic information in order to do this (this is not on the website).

Thanks.

Ps: does anyone know the patent application number - the only PJH one I can find relating to Quenco has lapsed due to non-payment of fees back in Summer 2012. Any help appreciated!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on December 02, 2012, 09:39:48 PM
@Madebymonkeys:
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/hardcastle-philip-julian-mr/patents/

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 02, 2012, 09:45:14 PM
@Madebymonkeys:
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/hardcastle-philip-julian-mr/patents/

Sincerely
                 CdL

Many thanks, CdL :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: orbut 3000 on December 03, 2012, 01:07:32 AM
The actual most recent filed Quenco patent application is missing in that list.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on December 03, 2012, 10:55:15 AM
@Madebymonkeys:
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/hardcastle-philip-julian-mr/patents/

Sincerely
                 CdL

Question: how many of these patents did become working prototypes or devices successfully launched in the market?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on December 04, 2012, 09:14:19 AM
Hi All,


Not sure that I appreciate the sort of snooping on my affairs re patents but let me simply say an international patent application was filed months ago citing the prior dates of 2 provisional applications.


There have been delays caused by many things, I am not going to parade them here but they have nothing to do with the Quenco itself, they were matters beyond my control of an administrative, clerical and contracts nature. We have but one hurdle to overcome and tomorrow I expect to be given the green light to conclude construction of the current Quenco device batch.


Those that think my estimates have been silly do not know the difficult road I have been on, the number of times people have broken their word or the immense technical challenges that only became apparent when we tried to do things at a scale of less than 3nm. I actually think we have done remarkably well to be now confident of getting to the end of this stage over the next week or so.


Those that want to snipe go ahead, I am not the slightest bit perturbed by such conduct, I after all have the advantage of knowing the facts, the skeptics merely want to posture and poke fun at people doing things they cannot.


I will not answer the barbs that pop up here, i will say thankd for the moral support from the kinder people here.


Quenco will change the World but I admit to being a bit ambitious to think I oculd do it all on my own, I now ahve the support of a number of experts from stanford and elsewhere, I now have support from many parts of the World, I now have quite a large team who are dedicated to making all this become a commercial reality as soon as humanly possible.


I admit to being too optimistic re delivery but if I had not set myself and others a goal we would find that the progress would have been slower, it is an obvious fact that this sort of work is impossilbe to accurately estimate for what seems simple has turned out to be a test at all levels. I feel though that when I read of other universities taking years to get to only half of what a quenco is then we have made incredible progress unfunded by fat government grants. This really is cutting edge work to deliver a device in such an advanced form, just think of the amn years almost every device requires, we had just me then a few dedicated scientists out of Australia and not a few more at stanford and elsewhere, in total perhaps a few man years, in nano technology that is really very little time.


I think it is strange that so little attention has been given to Quenco in comparison to the pseudo science of Steorn and such but in some ways it is good as it has allowed us to progress with little interference.


Anyway this is my last update before the launch.


Bye
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: peakprod on December 04, 2012, 12:06:36 PM
Philip, keep up the fantastic work that you are doing, ignore the skeptics, that is their purpose in life, they drive us to do better! Best regards peak prod (Gold Coast)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 04, 2012, 06:52:00 PM
Phil,  It's wonderful to hear from you again and thanks for another update.   At this time of the year in America people are so focused on the holidays that it may be a good thing it has taken a little extra time before launch.  If it happens before December 25th it may give people something hopeful to talk about in these difficult times during family get togethers.  If it happens after that I think it could also be a good time as people are always looking to the new ways and new things in a new year. 
    I think at this time any lack of attention on the Quenco is a good thing.  It's like a sleeper.  What is a sleeper?  I first came across that in car terminology.  A sleeper car is one that looks ordinary, stock, boring.  Under the hood is a powerhouse turbo-charged 1000 HP engine ready to blow off any hot looking sports cars that think they can impress others with their speed.   So Quenco may look like just another technology to make some energy but wait until the first ones come off the line in a device that never needs charging, never needs battery replacement and can run your whole lifetime without any other power input other than ambient heat.  I think it will grow a hundred times faster than the Internet if it is allowed and will be sought by everyone in these times when being independent of a destabilizing economic system can be so much easier if you have an independent power source.  Power to provide light to grow your own food indoors, heat your home, travel about without huge fuel costs.   It has the potential to be one of the biggest innovations of the Millenium. 
    Hope you get at least some time off to enjoy a Happy Holidays !   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on December 04, 2012, 11:09:39 PM
Phil, I'm at my climax when I hear from you.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 04, 2012, 11:18:20 PM
He's an infrequent poster, but if you're constantly wanking, I suppose there's a decent chance you will be, statistically speaking.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 05, 2012, 02:48:14 AM
Unfortunately the same old pattern is repeating itself.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on December 05, 2012, 05:01:49 AM
He's an infrequent poster, but if you're constantly wanking, I suppose there's a decent chance you will be, statistically speaking.

Looks like several others also feel like me, only they are more gentlemen.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on December 05, 2012, 08:47:43 PM



I think it is strange that so little attention has been given to Quenco in comparison to the pseudo science of Steorn and such but in some ways it is good as it has allowed us to progress with little interference.


Anyway this is my last update before the launch.


Bye

Hi Phil,
you could at least post a few pictures of a test sample lighting up a few LEDs or so, so it will be more believable
and people will not think it is all only a fake...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 05, 2012, 11:49:09 PM
Hi Phil,
you could at least post a few pictures of a test sample lighting up a few LEDs or so, so it will be more believable
and people will not think it is all only a fake...

Regards, Stefan.

Excellent idea, that would also give no info away about the manufacturing process or materials so pretty safe to do. Even a pic of 'something' relevant happening would make the skeptics (me included) think things are more real :)

MBM.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 06, 2012, 12:59:13 AM
Hi All,


Not sure that I appreciate the sort of snooping on my affairs re patents but let me simply say an international patent application was filed months ago citing the prior dates of 2 provisional applications.

It's all in the public domain - the unfortunate thing about patents is that they give your competitors a heads-up as to what you are working on and can give them up to 36months to create their own novel patent. There are options to limit the application info which is made public (limiting it to the abstract) until the patent is granted (this can help negate the risk to some degree) - your patent attorney will know all about this.

Quote
There have been delays caused by many things, I am not going to parade them here but they have nothing to do with the Quenco itself, they were matters beyond my control of an administrative, clerical and contracts nature. We have but one hurdle to overcome and tomorrow I expect to be given the green light to conclude construction of the current Quenco device batch.


Those that think my estimates have been silly do not know the difficult road I have been on, the number of times people have broken their word or the immense technical challenges that only became apparent when we tried to do things at a scale of less than 3nm. I actually think we have done remarkably well to be now confident of getting to the end of this stage over the next week or so.


Those that want to snipe go ahead, I am not the slightest bit perturbed by such conduct, I after all have the advantage of knowing the facts, the skeptics merely want to posture and poke fun at people doing things they cannot.

I don't know if that's aimed at me but I don't want to 'posture and poke fun', I don't believe that I have either - I just want to believe this is real but there is no evidence to suggest it is, unless you can offer some?

Quote
I will not answer the barbs that pop up here, i will say thankd for the moral support from the kinder people here.

I think most people, deep down, are kind. I also think that most people can be easily blinded by extravagant claims (and hope) unless they are from a technical background in which case they will question everything. Questioning and providing proof are 'par for the course' in the field you are currently working in.
Basically, if you are going to claim things like 10kW from a 1cm tile you'd better be ready to prove it. Or at least show a tile of any size powering something other than a DMM. Or even demonstrate just how it's possible (on a technical level, not just abstract comments).

If you don't want to be asked questions, provide proof, wake up skeptics etc then its probably best to just keep quiet about your developments!

Quote
Quenco will change the World but I admit to being a bit ambitious to think I oculd do it all on my own, I now ahve the support of a number of experts from stanford and elsewhere, I now have support from many parts of the World, I now have quite a large team who are dedicated to making all this become a commercial reality as soon as humanly possible.

When I started in business it was a real struggle to 'let go' and get help, eventually I did and the company now has a number of staff and is flourishing. It's good to get help - nobody knows everything :)
Its hard to share a dream sometimes.

Quote
I admit to being too optimistic re delivery but if I had not set myself and others a goal we would find that the progress would have been slower, it is an obvious fact that this sort of work is impossilbe to accurately estimate for what seems simple has turned out to be a test at all levels. I feel though that when I read of other universities taking years to get to only half of what a quenco is then we have made incredible progress unfunded by fat government grants.

Don't rule out grants and funding from VCs or Angels. Contracts lawyers are expensive (my most recent one was just over £250 per hour) and you're likely to require some expensive engineers to get this off the ground......companies will be reluctant to license a patent without proof that the technology actually works as claimed and is manufacturable, this would require working models. Even Stanford won't be there to help forever, unless they take a stake in your company in return for use of equipment and some engineering resource? A percentage of something is better than 100% of nothing!
Mind you, I don't know how deep your pockets are :)

Quote
This really is cutting edge work to deliver a device in such an advanced form, just think of the amn years almost every device requires, we had just me then a few dedicated scientists out of Australia and not a few more at stanford and elsewhere, in total perhaps a few man years, in nano technology that is really very little time.


I think it is strange that so little attention has been given to Quenco in comparison to the pseudo science of Steorn and such but in some ways it is good as it has allowed us to progress with little interference.

People were drawn into the Steorn story by extravagant claims of abundant free energy and talk of changing the world. The reality was that they set dates for launches, missed them, set more dates, missed them, provided no proof of concept etc. Steorn even had some qualified engineers and scientists give the product a thumbs-up!

This may sound harsh but your Quenco story matches the one from Steorn fairly accurately so far. Once bitten, twice shy....as the saying goes. And you wonder why there are skeptics :)

If Steorn had stepped back (before getting all excited and talking about changing the world with magnets and acrylic), made a proof of concept and tested it properly, managed expectations, they wouldn't have ended up as they did........well, actually they probably still would have ended up as they did but their heads may have been held a little higher!
That said, Steorn did spin-out some side products as a result of their research into perpetual motion so all was not lost for them.

If things don't work out for Quenco there is every chance you may generate some saleable IP in the field of nanoscale manufacturing methods or 'some other stuff', who knows?

Quote
Anyway this is my last update before the launch.


Bye

Good luck, I hope it pans out well - don't be a Steorn, reel in the 'change the world' talk until you can actually prove it (that's genuinely good advice!) :)

MBM
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on December 06, 2012, 09:17:02 AM
My answer is simple, Quenco is 100% genuine, it has nothing in common with all the BS claims of Bedini, Steorn, Peswiki.


All those that have engaged with me privately and have an assigned or reserved licence I trust are 100% happy with me.



I am sick and tired of being asked to prove my honesty and I do not see why I have to prove a single damn thing to any skeptic.


So if posting here requires me to prove something then I simply will not.


Similarly I have pulled down the website.


I will now make a single statement;




Quenco is 100% real proved physics, the implementation at the scale of 2nm is very hard to do, we are still working on it.


Over the past year a lot of very good people at Australian and US research institutions have worked on this.


There are now a number or commercial partners who are fully behind commercialising the Quenco.


I have spent a small fortune and a chunk of my life doing this for the benefit of all.


Call me a liar or scammer in the same breath as you mention Steorn or Sterling or Rossi if you want, but you know I am not.


All I have done is try to share with you all what I could, some have appreciated that, some have ridiculed me.


A working device in the hands of an independent and reputable testing authority is the only acceptable proof.


I will do exactly that, I intend to ask the famous Australian Skeptic Dick Smith to do the testing.


Just for fun let me tell you that he offered me $1Million for a 5Kw power source, I offered him a $20M Tesla powered by Quenco. He declined, whereas he offered Rossi $1M and Rossi declined. Of course I admit I was a little ahead of myself but also in our communication was that I offered to pay Dick a penalty of some thousands of dollars if I failed to deliver, note he was not required to pay any deposit. Of course you can ask Dick if this is true, and you can surmise from such that I am genuine, but of course you cannot know if I am deluded, only my commercial partners have enough knowledge to make such a judgement.


I contacted Tesla but they refused to sell me a car without batteries.


Anyhow that really is my last comment here.


Thanks for the interesting comments.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on December 06, 2012, 03:15:28 PM
...
Quenco is 100% real proved physics, the implementation at the scale of 2nm is very hard to do, we are still working on it.
...


Hmm, there is a thing that makes me crazy with you. How can you say that it is "100% real proved physics" if you do not have yet any single working prototype?

I would say: "Quenco is a 100% You-want-it-to-work device." Phil, one thing is our wish, another thing is the real world.


 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 06, 2012, 05:20:58 PM
Quenco falls in the same line as Hot Nuclear Fusion, It can be mathematically proven to work, It can be shown to work on a small scale,(less out than in).
Yet do we have Hot Fusion Reactors?
Quenco is not a matter of if...., it is a matter of when!

The if in Quenco, comes only from design issues and not the concept of the device. The Hot Fusion Reactor has gone through many different design issues and is likely to never become a reality even though the process is known to work.

Quenco will become reality once the required design becomes physically possible to build. This could require a new step or process, but is still far more likely to be achieved than a working process in Hot Fusion and Quenco would also be the better source for future energy.





Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on December 06, 2012, 05:41:05 PM
@Philip. I am very disappointed the you let the sceptics get to you. I have no doubt whatever that you are doing what you are doing with the very best of intentions. I am surprised that you did not forsee the situation that you find yourself in. Remember, that a forum has many more readers than writers, and a lot of people here, although silent, are fully supportive of what you are working on. I wish you every success, and hope we shall hear from you very soon.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 06, 2012, 06:11:42 PM
Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mikestocks2006 on December 06, 2012, 06:33:43 PM
Hi All,


Not sure that I appreciate the sort of snooping on my affairs re patents but let me simply say an international patent application was filed months ago citing the prior dates of 2 provisional applications.


There have been delays caused by many things, I am not going to parade them here but they have nothing to do with the Quenco itself, they were matters beyond my control of an administrative, clerical and contracts nature. We have but one hurdle to overcome and tomorrow I expect to be given the green light to conclude construction of the current Quenco device batch.


Those that think my estimates have been silly do not know the difficult road I have been on, the number of times people have broken their word or the immense technical challenges that only became apparent when we tried to do things at a scale of less than 3nm. I actually think we have done remarkably well to be now confident of getting to the end of this stage over the next week or so.


Those that want to snipe go ahead, I am not the slightest bit perturbed by such conduct, I after all have the advantage of knowing the facts, the skeptics merely want to posture and poke fun at people doing things they cannot.


I will not answer the barbs that pop up here, i will say thankd for the moral support from the kinder people here.


Quenco will change the World but I admit to being a bit ambitious to think I oculd do it all on my own, I now ahve the support of a number of experts from stanford and elsewhere, I now have support from many parts of the World, I now have quite a large team who are dedicated to making all this become a commercial reality as soon as humanly possible.


I admit to being too optimistic re delivery but if I had not set myself and others a goal we would find that the progress would have been slower, it is an obvious fact that this sort of work is impossilbe to accurately estimate for what seems simple has turned out to be a test at all levels. I feel though that when I read of other universities taking years to get to only half of what a quenco is then we have made incredible progress unfunded by fat government grants. This really is cutting edge work to deliver a device in such an advanced form, just think of the amn years almost every device requires, we had just me then a few dedicated scientists out of Australia and not a few more at stanford and elsewhere, in total perhaps a few man years, in nano technology that is really very little time.


I think it is strange that so little attention has been given to Quenco in comparison to the pseudo science of Steorn and such but in some ways it is good as it has allowed us to progress with little interference.


Anyway this is my last update before the launch.


Bye
Hi Phil,
 
In terms of coverage and exposure (it was noted in earlier posts as not being as high as expected) don’t you think that having at least some web presence would be of benefit? Taking the website off line appears to be counter productive towards that aspect.
 
As far as Tesla, their cars are a bit pricey. Sportster close to 100k range, but the sedan is in the 50k before rebates.
If the funds are there, a Nissan Leaf could be an option in the 25k range. If they will not sell one without the batteries, purchase the vehicle, remove the existing battery power plant and replace it with the new quenco technology.
 
Nice work.
Thanks for posting,
Mike.
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 06, 2012, 06:42:21 PM
You could always get an electric golf cart, mobility scooter or even an old milk float, get some sceptical reporter to drive them  across the USA.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: neptune on December 06, 2012, 08:04:03 PM
I would guess that with the cost of replacement batteries at around £16,000, You could have your pick of Teslas without batteries at your local scrapyard, from £1,000 each.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 06, 2012, 08:19:14 PM
Very good point.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 06, 2012, 11:36:02 PM
Quenco falls in the same line as Hot Nuclear Fusion, It can be mathematically proven to work, It can be shown to work on a small scale,(less out than in).
Yet do we have Hot Fusion Reactors?

No we don't, and they aren't expected for another 30-50 years or so by which time the R&D will have cost the taxpayer well in excess of €100,000,000,000 or about $130,000,000,000. Yikes!

Quote
Quenco is not a matter of if...., it is a matter of when!

Maybe. We're a long way from being able to say 'when'....we are still at the 'if' or 'unlikely' (especially with the 1cm tile = 10kW claim!) stages :)

Quote
The if in Quenco, comes only from design issues and not the concept of the device. The Hot Fusion Reactor has gone through many different design issues and is likely to never become a reality even though the process is known to work.

And Hot Fusion differs from Quenco in what way (apart from the hot fusion process is known to work on paper)?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/sep/16/nuclear-fusion-iter-jet-forshaw

Quote
Quenco will become reality once the required design becomes physically possible to build.

And economical.

Quote
This could require a new step or process, but is still far more likely to be achieved than a working process in Hot Fusion and Quenco would also be the better source for future energy.

I hope it is :) If we could see a Quenco tile powering a cellphone that would be a great - even a handful of LEDs would be a good start :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 06, 2012, 11:48:36 PM
You could always get an electric golf cart, mobility scooter or even an old milk float, get some sceptical reporter to drive them  across the USA.

Or even just make a proof of concept with a small DC motor (say from a handheld fan) with 2 wires and a Quenco tile. This would be much easier, cost next to nothing (for the fan) and has the benefit of having all the components visible. Using a car is a bit overkill and unnecessary expense I would say.
If you can prove the initial concept and start small (managing expectations!) then it should be an easy sell to the likes of Tesla if the concept is scalable (and economical).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on December 07, 2012, 01:48:20 AM
I am getting sick of people who only have $ signs in their eyes !

Hey people, your last shirt will not have any pockets !

So where to stuff all the money when you are dead...?

We are here on earth to give and help others...
not to die rich...and forget the poor !

Please work on your Karma !

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 07, 2012, 01:58:18 AM
I am getting sick of people who only have $ signs in their eyes !

Hey people, your last shirt will not have any pockets !

So where to stuff all the money when you are dead...?

We are here on earth to give and help others...
not to die rich...and forget the poor !

Please work on your Karma !

Regards, Stefan.
well said! humanity will remain, for the most part, inhuman until people start to embrace such ideas.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 07, 2012, 03:25:29 AM
I am getting sick of people who only have $ signs in their eyes !

Hey people, your last shirt will not have any pockets !

So where to stuff all the money when you are dead...?

We are here on earth to give and help others...
not to die rich...and forget the poor !

Please work on your Karma !

Regards, Stefan.
Stefan,  I'm not sure who you are referring to by this post but if it's Phil I think you have him pegged completely wrong.  I'm not sure if it was posted here or in some of the email (not PM but email) messages I've had with him but he (and I do assume people are being honest unless proven otherwise) has said he is not out to get rich on this by any means.  He said he just wants to be able to retire to a small chicken ranch.  As I understand it most of the money from licensing will go into a foundation that will provide Quenco devices to those who really need it and can't afford it including many third world countries that have no power and no clean water due to lack of power.  Everything in my life experience (and training to hire quality people) tells me Phil is a very altruistic humanitarian that will do great things for the people of this planet if Quenco can succeed in navigating all the stumbling blocks placed along the path to success in getting this out to the world.   My only concern at this time is whether something this potentially Earth changing will be allowed to go fully forward.  In the long run I have no doubt it will be for the best of all but along the way many established businesses will likely take a big fall.  But new ones will spring up and I think a real revolution will take place in the way so many things are done. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 07, 2012, 03:29:06 AM
Please also take into consideration this is not something that can be readily made in someone's garage.  It takes high tech very expensive equipment to produce from what I understand.  Companies with this type of equipment stand to make huge profits if this pans out the way I think it will.  There is no reason for all the profits to go to the companies if this revolutionary concept can help so many in the world who don't even have clean water or any power at all and I believe Phil knows this and wants to insure everyone can benefit from his discovery. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 07, 2012, 03:17:13 PM
Cheaper food and water will just be the start.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Trino Cularoid on December 07, 2012, 03:28:52 PM
I am getting sick of people who only have $ signs in their eyes !
Well, it takes about 3 generations (almost 100 years) to completely change an "idea", because the old ones simply have to die out with their "idea". Change itself can happen much earlier in localized places but isn't "visible" for quite a while (for example, local communities might be far ahead already but mainstream largely ignores it). And it's exponential: It might take two decades for a less than 1% change and then suddenly becomes visible for the more aware within a few years.  So it needs some patience...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 08, 2012, 09:21:29 PM
I am getting sick of people who only have $ signs in their eyes !

Hey people, your last shirt will not have any pockets !

So where to stuff all the money when you are dead...?

We are here on earth to give and help others...
not to die rich...and forget the poor !

Please work on your Karma !

Regards, Stefan.

The fact that things cost money isn't going to go away anytime soon. The only one with $ signs appears to be PJH. I just don't buy the argument against making the info open!
If you don't want someone having a monopoly (which is what a patent gives for a period), or destroying the idea and making it disappear, put the info into the public domain!

Let every company make it, large and small, assuming they invest in the equipment. This should help drive the cost down....especially if they don't have to throw down 250 million for a license and then royalties! Right now its a closed-ship, large license fees, no info, royalties etc.

'Open source' the info, many companies and institutions will try and replicate and it will only act to push forward the development.....like whats happening with nuclear fusion.

There is the issue of the foundation (and its reliance on large royalties and license fees) and its charitable donations of Quenco, this could be solved somehow I guess?

Maybe I am missing a few key points here (do let me know what they are if I am!) but in new research its normally a good idea to pool resources....unless you want to have a monopoly of course!
This approach has worked well with fusion....

Another 2c from me.

MBM
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 09, 2012, 12:18:53 AM
The fact that things cost money isn't going to go away anytime soon. The only one with $ signs appears to be PJH. I just don't buy the argument against making the info open!
If you don't want someone having a monopoly (which is what a patent gives for a period), or destroying the idea and making it disappear, put the info into the public domain!

Let every company make it, large and small, assuming they invest in the equipment. This should help drive the cost down....especially if they don't have to throw down 250 million for a license and then royalties! Right now its a closed-ship, large license fees, no info, royalties etc.

'Open source' the info, many companies and institutions will try and replicate and it will only act to push forward the development.....like whats happening with nuclear fusion.

There is the issue of the foundation (and its reliance on large royalties and license fees) and its charitable donations of Quenco, this could be solved somehow I guess?

Maybe I am missing a few key points here (do let me know what they are if I am!) but in new research its normally a good idea to pool resources....unless you want to have a monopoly of course!
This approach has worked well with fusion....

Another 2c from me.

MBM

If you want to give it away then you better have a patent on it or someone else will patent it and prevent you from giving it away.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 09, 2012, 01:14:31 AM
If you want to give it away then you better have a patent on it or someone else will patent it and prevent you from giving it away.

Hmm. I don't know the full legalities but it 'should' be difficult to claim novelty (and a subsequent monopoly) on something which is fully documented (to the point where someone 'skilled in the art' could replicate) and in the public domain already?

Hey, just noticed the date....72hrs (ish) until the Quenco launch - I bet it will be postponed due to unspecified issues unrelated to Quenco again. :(
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: ramset on December 09, 2012, 07:32:05 AM
The little RED QuenCO
 
I suppose the Story should have had a few addendums?
 
Perhaps they came in and pestered the Hen for not being Timely with the
schedule of her work,    Mocking her a bit for the delays.
 
Yes ,That would be a good addition ....""look she said she would be done with the harvest by now .......... what a liar !!""""
Or       """OHHH look the stove needs wood ....How will she ever Hold that promise Now???? [Snicker Giggle]"""
 
But all things considered it still ends the same....
 
Cept this ain't a fairy tail !
Thx
Chet
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hartiberlin on December 09, 2012, 08:12:44 AM
Stefan,  I'm not sure who you are referring to by this post but if it's Phil I think you have him pegged completely wrong.  I'm not sure if it was posted here or in some of the email (not PM but email) messages I've had with him but he (and I do assume people are being honest unless proven otherwise) has said he is not out to get rich on this by any means.  He said he just wants to be able to retire to a small chicken ranch.  As I understand it most of the money from licensing will go into a foundation that will provide Quenco devices to those who really need it and can't afford it including many third world countries that have no power and no clean water due to lack of power.  Everything in my life experience (and training to hire quality people) tells me Phil is a very altruistic humanitarian that will do great things for the people of this planet if Quenco can succeed in navigating all the stumbling blocks placed along the path to success in getting this out to the world.   My only concern at this time is whether something this potentially Earth changing will be allowed to go fully forward.  In the long run I have no doubt it will be for the best of all but along the way many established businesses will likely take a big fall.  But new ones will spring up and I think a real revolution will take place in the way so many things are done.


Phil could at least post a  few pictures of his cells driving something like an LED...
If he wanted to come out with it he should by now have prototypes that run...

Regarding the patents, if you open source something like this, nobody else could patent it,....
but if some companies have the right lawyer force and enough money they can always change some few minor
details and patent it then... probably only depends on how much money you spent for the patent lawyers to come
up with a "solution" to "be liked" by the patent office...

Anyway, if this would be put up into open source at least the guys who want to replicate it could
use the exact "recipe" and use it without paying patent license fees...

Well although it is probably almost impossible to do nanometer structure layers for the common tinker man... ;=)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 09, 2012, 08:34:21 PM

Phil could at least post a  few pictures of his cells driving something like an LED...
If he wanted to come out with it he should by now have prototypes that run...

Totally agree.

Quote
Regarding the patents, if you open source something like this, nobody else could patent it,....
but if some companies have the right lawyer force and enough money they can always change some few minor
details and patent it then... probably only depends on how much money you spent for the patent lawyers to come
up with a "solution" to "be liked" by the patent office...

Very true, this would also be true even if it isn't open source. If there is money to be made then one man (or one foundation) won't hold all the cards, it simply won't be allowed.

If a license ever gets sold (money actually changing hands between companies) it will be for the purpose of gaining info and refining the process and improving it....at which point the license won't need a renewal, the company won't need to pay royalties, and the company can offer a better, cheaper product (potentially!). Basically patents can be worked around like you say!

Companies work around patents all the time, its a legitimate part of business.

Quote
Anyway, if this would be put up into open source at least the guys who want to replicate it could
use the exact "recipe" and use it without paying patent license fees...

And work together for the greater good :)

Quote
Well although it is probably almost impossible to do nanometer structure layers for the common tinker man... ;=)

And Stanford so it seems :)

Stick with fusion!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on December 10, 2012, 12:43:22 AM
There are many people who believe that giving free stuff is the solution to all problems, no, that's not the solution, because the problem was never a lack of things, the problem is always lack of proper education.

In my country Venezuela, given away everything you need, if you need to house the government gives it to you, if you need food the government gives it, up gives gasoline. The result is that people do not like working, prefer constantly asking the government for their needs, as well as those things are free they are not appreciated, everything quickly becomes corrupted, there is no maintenance. We want to invite you to come to my country to have it checked for yourself.

Everyone should have the opportunity  to have everything what they need, but not given, everything has to be paid with some kind of work, there is no reason for the rich can have car but not the poor, the two should be able to have both a car and be able to do something for society in exchange, which is what provides them the car and where it is used.

100% support the policies of Philip, even licending seems cheap, as any nanotechnology factory costs billions , ask how much it costs a factory intel.

Proper education, it solves all the problems of society is to learn: do not do to another what you do not like them to do to you. That means being sensitive to the needs of others, involves working for society, involves limiting what you expect to receive and increase what you give, and so on.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 10, 2012, 05:47:30 PM
There are many people who believe that giving free stuff is the solution to all problems, no, that's not the solution, because the problem was never a lack of things, the problem is always lack of proper education.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick - give the information away for free in order to have more institutions working on making Quenco a reality.
Nobody will give Quenco away for free, that could be counterproductive in some instances, as you suggest.

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In my country Venezuela, given away everything you need, if you need to house the government gives it to you, if you need food the government gives it, up gives gasoline. The result is that people do not like working, prefer constantly asking the government for their needs, as well as those things are free they are not appreciated, everything quickly becomes corrupted, there is no maintenance. We want to invite you to come to my country to have it checked for yourself.

No need, it's the same here in the UK (and probably everywhere else with a welfare state!).

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Everyone should have the opportunity  to have everything what they need, but not given, everything has to be paid with some kind of work, there is no reason for the rich can have car but not the poor, the two should be able to have both a car and be able to do something for society in exchange, which is what provides them the car and where it is used.

I agree, but giving the info away is my suggestion (not the product) - so that everyone can help to push an actual product to market....more people, more research, more chances of hitting a working solution.

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100% support the policies of Philip, even licending seems cheap, as any nanotechnology factory costs billions , ask how much it costs a factory intel.

Proper education, it solves all the problems of society is to learn: do not do to another what you do not like them to do to you. That means being sensitive to the needs of others, involves working for society, involves limiting what you expect to receive and increase what you give, and so on.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2012, 04:18:50 PM
My answer is simple, Quenco is 100% genuine, it has nothing in common with all the BS claims of Bedini, Steorn, Peswiki.
And 100% not here...

I've been looking through the past posts here and even found that moletrap place Philip mentioned...he has been promising and promising and promising...despite several times saying "next week" or "in a few months".   For well over a year.   It's hard to believe that there isn't a systemic problem here.   It doesn't have to be with Quenco it can just as easily be that Philip is inept.  Think about it, would you accept a years worth of "it's only a few weeks away" excuses from one of your employees before you turfed them?

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All those that have engaged with me privately and have an assigned or reserved licence I trust are 100% happy with me.
The weird thing here is that this should be compelling to absolutely nobody and it's a complete mystery as to why anyone anywhere would find it so.

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I am sick and tired of being asked to prove my honesty and I do not see why I have to prove a single damn thing to any skeptic.
You don't *have* to prove anything (prove is not a very good word - "provide evidence" is better) and as a result you should be content with the fact that your sincerity is worthless.

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Similarly I have pulled down the website.
Oh even though the quencos are available TODAY by your statements?  Right now?  Just a few days before the absolute final deadline and total and legitimate launch.  Seems like if you had just waited two days you wouldn't have to prove anything at all.  Quencos would be right there converting heat into energy.

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Quenco is 100% real proved physics, the implementation at the scale of 2nm is very hard to do, we are still working on it.
I thought real proved physics MEANS implementation.  Can you have real proved physics without actually implementing anything?

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There are now a number or commercial partners who are fully behind commercialising the Quenco.
This is hard to believe unless we are talking about companies populated by Philip himself...but I guess if Firepower happened once it might happen again.

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I have spent a small fortune and a chunk of my life doing this for the benefit of all.
Which can't possibly skew your perceptions at all now can they....

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Call me a liar or scammer in the same breath as you mention Steorn or Sterling or Rossi if you want, but you know I am not.
For over a year these things were supposed to be in peoples hands.  Either you are inept or you are not quite telling people the truth.

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All I have done is try to share with you all what I could, some have appreciated that, some have ridiculed me.
Some would have liked for you to make promises you could keep.  It has been the same "it's almost done" for over a year.

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I will do exactly that, I intend to ask the famous Australian Skeptic Dick Smith to do the testing.
That doesn't make much sense.  Dick Smith is a patron of a skeptical society he isn't a physicist or engineer.   Perhaps a group of people chosen by him.

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Just for fun let me tell you that he offered me $1Million for a 5Kw power source, I offered him a $20M Tesla powered by Quenco. He declined, whereas he offered Rossi $1M and Rossi declined. Of course I admit I was a little ahead of myself but also in our communication was that I offered to pay Dick a penalty of some thousands of dollars if I failed to deliver, note he was not required to pay any deposit. Of course you can ask Dick if this is true, and you can surmise from such that I am genuine, but of course you cannot know if I am deluded, only my commercial partners have enough knowledge to make such a judgement. I contacted Tesla but they refused to sell me a car without batteries.

So wait...wait.  He offered to pay you for something, you offered to give him something else entirely, offered to pay him penalties if you didn't deliver.  You didn't give him either the thing he asked for or the thing you offered or pay the penalty fees.....and how exactly does this say anything about the technology you have?

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Anyhow that really is my last comment here.
I doubt it.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on December 11, 2012, 09:01:47 PM
Tomorrow is the day.  I for one look forward to reading the white paper and test results. 

If you're listening Philip, there are a lot of us waiting with bated breath. 

BTW - Let me know when/where I can purchase one for my tinkering in the basement :)


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 11, 2012, 10:26:48 PM
Tomorrow is the day.  I for one look forward to reading the white paper and test results. 

If you're listening Philip, there are a lot of us waiting with bated breath. 

BTW - Let me know when/where I can purchase one for my tinkering in the basement :)

Me too! Hopefully there won't be a 'catch 22' where you can't have a sample until you pay a million and you won't pay a million unless you have a sample!

The 'small fan' demo would be enough to get me believing, but right now.....I will eat my shorts if it happens :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on December 11, 2012, 11:39:46 PM
Please Mr.Hardcastle, do for all of us the 'small fan' demo
cause I -like many other ,too- want to see 'Madebymonkeys: live on stage' eating all his shorts (plural  ;D ) !

Sincerely
                 CdL
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 12, 2012, 12:06:21 AM
Please Mr.Hardcastle, do for all of us the 'small fan' demo
cause I -like many other ,too- want to see 'Madebymonkeys: live on stage' eating all his shorts (plural  ;D ) !

Sincerely
                 CdL

Hehehe, hmmmm ....shorts.........doh!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 12, 2012, 12:32:37 AM
And 100% not here...

I've been looking through the past posts here and even found that moletrap place Philip mentioned...he has been promising and promising and promising...despite several times saying "next week" or "in a few months".   For well over a year.   It's hard to believe that there isn't a systemic problem here.   It doesn't have to be with Quenco it can just as easily be that Philip is inept.  Think about it, would you accept a years worth of "it's only a few weeks away" excuses from one of your employees before you turfed them?
The weird thing here is that this should be compelling to absolutely nobody and it's a complete mystery as to why anyone anywhere would find it so.
You don't *have* to prove anything (prove is not a very good word - "provide evidence" is better) and as a result you should be content with the fact that your sincerity is worthless.
Oh even though the quencos are available TODAY by your statements?  Right now?  Just a few days before the absolute final deadline and total and legitimate launch.  Seems like if you had just waited two days you wouldn't have to prove anything at all.  Quencos would be right there converting heat into energy.
I thought real proved physics MEANS implementation.  Can you have real proved physics without actually implementing anything?
This is hard to believe unless we are talking about companies populated by Philip himself...but I guess if Firepower happened once it might happen again.
Which can't possibly skew your perceptions at all now can they....
For over a year these things were supposed to be in peoples hands.  Either you are inept or you are not quite telling people the truth.
Some would have liked for you to make promises you could keep.  It has been the same "it's almost done" for over a year.
That doesn't make much sense.  Dick Smith is a patron of a skeptical society he isn't a physicist or engineer.   Perhaps a group of people chosen by him.

So wait...wait.  He offered to pay you for something, you offered to give him something else entirely, offered to pay him penalties if you didn't deliver.  You didn't give him either the thing he asked for or the thing you offered or pay the penalty fees.....and how exactly does this say anything about the technology you have?
I doubt it.
Your "first" post?  Not likely!  You simply grab another user name, so that you can talk trash.  You seem a "bit" too eager to see Philip not deliver and to bad mouth him.  It reminds me of two other guys on this forum, who should have been banned a long time ago.
Be PATIENT!  At least he is attempting to do something, and he would not continue to post here if there was nothing to it.  All of you eager beavers, can't wait for either the blueprint or are eager to "prove" why it couldn't possibly work.   Sheesh, dude, why don't you build something, or wind a coil, or build an OCAL Motor.  That's a sure bet winner for you....
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: orbut 3000 on December 12, 2012, 12:42:58 AM
Quentron.com is still 'under construction', I'll bet Mr. Hardcastle and his team are busy working behind the scenes to make this launch one for the history books. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 12, 2012, 01:25:27 AM
Your "first" post?  Not likely!  You simply grab another user name, so that you can talk trash.  You seem a "bit" too eager to see Philip not deliver and to bad mouth him.  It reminds me of two other guys on this forum, who should have been banned a long time ago.
Be PATIENT!  At least he is attempting to do something, and he would not continue to post here if there was nothing to it.  All of you eager beavers, can't wait for either the blueprint or are eager to "prove" why it couldn't possibly work.   Sheesh, dude, why don't you build something, or wind a coil, or build an OCAL Motor.  That's a sure bet winner for you....
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce

To be honest, Sarkaizen could have a point - it has been a lot of missed promises. A familiar pattern?
I have built lots of things (not related to OU) and yes, sometimes things are hard to do. But very few things appear to be approaching completion (a few days from completion in Quenco's case!) and then get delayed by so long....repeatedly.

As for being eager for the blueprint (haven't heard the word 'blueprint' since an old 007 movie!), I don't see an issue with that. The world ain't going to change if there is one patent holder sat in an ivory tower holding all the companies who could actually produce the stuff to ransom. Given that we aren't going to see any working demo tomorrow, I still maintain that it should be open sourced. I don't see the issue with that really - do you?
I know PJH has to cover the costs etc but that will be easy if a working demo can be created - money shouldn't be an issue at that point.

As for proving it couldn't work, many scientists have already done that - something to do with entropy but I am not an expert! That's not to say this isn't a new thing.....who knows, certainly not me.
You could also suggest that even PJH has proven it not to work - nobody knows otherwise, unless you have seen the Quenco demo over at Stanford in preparation for tomorrow!?

I am assuming it won't work and we will never see it (Quenco) - that's based on what I have read on this forum, the history of PJHs project, the familiar 'Steorn' pattern, the worldwide network of scientists who work with these materials every day not 'coming up with something' and also what I have read on the subject and the basic problems which make it next to impossible to achieve.

People who think that Quenco will work appear to be basing their opinion on hope (which is fine). I base my opinions on at least some facts and technical knowledge!

MBM

PS: It would be great if it works tomorrow - does anyone know what time PJH will break cover? Have any of his supporters had any contact?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 12, 2012, 02:05:01 AM
Tell me Mary; do you think that by appearing here and lazily pushing PJHs buttons with another of your breathily enthusiastic sock-puppets, you've managed to increase or decrease the chances of an update from the horses mouth?


I don't mean the chances of anything remotely interesting being observed - which is not affected by anyone's belief, opinions or attitude. Just the chances that he'll give an update of any kind?


What do you reckon?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: wideyed_tutank on December 12, 2012, 03:35:49 AM
@vrstud


So you want to be the first one out with a quenco powered vibrator? :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 12, 2012, 04:32:49 AM
Your "first" post?  Not likely!  You simply grab another user name, so that you can talk trash.  You seem a "bit" too eager to see Philip not deliver and to bad mouth him.  It reminds me of two other guys on this forum, who should have been banned a long time ago.
Be PATIENT!  At least he is attempting to do something, and he would not continue to post here if there was nothing to it.  All of you eager beavers, can't wait for either the blueprint or are eager to "prove" why it couldn't possibly work.   Sheesh, dude, why don't you build something, or wind a coil, or build an OCAL Motor.  That's a sure bet winner for you....
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce

I agree Bruce this sarkeizen is just a cowardly troll here under another name so he can take cheap shots at someone or a troll who has an agenda of some sort that would be negatively influenced if Quenco succeeds and is under some delusion that his post will hinder Quenco. 

   This sometimes reminds me of the stock market when I was day-trading.   You'd see all the short sellers talking complete trash and BS about a company in the company's forum while all to people holding stock or buying would be posting rumors of over the top profits and fantastic futures.  It was pitifully obvious everyone was trying to influence the stock and very obvious which side each poster was on.   They all had their agenda. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 12, 2012, 09:59:57 AM
@vrstud


So you want to be the first one out with a quenco powered vibrator? :)

Great plan! The  industry is one of the biggest there is :)
Not sure the ladies would like to sink the ambient to -200 deg C though! :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on December 12, 2012, 10:18:44 AM

The nature of man is to take advantage of others, and we must understand this, and consciously do the opposite.


Philip is doing a great job in many areas that had not worked before, and doing it without asking anything from anyone, not a single dollar. We are to support him as our only investment is patience, something very simple and costs nothing.


Please stop trying to Philip as his slave, and stop demanding and rather look for ways to support it, if only in words.


As I wrote before, if Philip can not have ready Quenco this day, happy to continue to support and waiting.


Philip, please write, to know you're okay physically.


The Eternal God bless to Philip.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 12, 2012, 10:26:59 AM
Tell me Mary; do you think that by appearing here and lazily pushing PJHs buttons with another of your breathily enthusiastic sock-puppets, you've managed to increase or decrease the chances of an update from the horses mouth?

Who is Mary?
I think neither increased or decreased. He announced to this audience (you included) some awesome claims, 100% proven technology available immediately etc. To then ignore the audience is somewhat odd - think of him on the 'stage' with the audience sat down.....PJH, the speaker, states the awesome claims and says 'I will be back after the break to demonstrate to the world how this will change it' etc....the break starts, he goes to get a coffee.........and doesnt come back, the audience are sat there wondering what has happened, people look at their watches, people get more agitated, people cry hoax etc.
You do see what I mean right?

Everyone works hard (everyone I employ or know at least) but spending a few minutes to tell your 'audience', be it your friends, colleagues, family whats going on is valuable. Even if the news is bad, its good to talk (as BT said!).

The old saying 'no news is good news' doesnt hold true all the time.....in fact, almost none of the time.

Seriously though, a few minutes for an update to his audience would do him a lot of favours.

You do have to excuse me for getting a bit annoyed but I feel like I have been duped, hoodwinked into believing in something which is panning out in the same way as all other OU technologies. Snakeoil.

Nothing is pointing to a successful conclusion of the Quenco project just yet although I genuinely do hope the scientists and engineers missed something and its real (on a useful level as quoted by PJH - 10kW etc).
 
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I don't mean the chances of anything remotely interesting being observed - which is not affected by anyone's belief, opinions or attitude. Just the chances that he'll give an update of any kind?


What do you reckon?

As above, I dont think its increased or decreased the chance. It takes a few minutes to post an update - posting a Quenco demo would change the mood considerably!
The 'big reveal' is scheduled for today - lets see. Shame the Quenco site is down - there is now no public way of rescheduling the date!

mbm
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 12, 2012, 10:34:35 AM
The nature of man is to take advantage of others, and we must understand this, and consciously do the opposite.


Philip is doing a great job in many areas that had not worked before, and doing it without asking anything from anyone, not a single dollar. We are to support him as our only investment is patience, something very simple and costs nothing.


Please stop trying to Philip as his slave, and stop demanding and rather look for ways to support it, if only in words.


As I wrote before, if Philip can not have ready Quenco this day, happy to continue to support and waiting.


Philip, please write, to know you're okay physically.


The Eternal God bless to Philip.

I think you are missing the point.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 12, 2012, 01:16:45 PM
"Who is Mary?"

Well that's a question a few people have been interested in. I'm not personally, in the definitive sense; who you are IRL is irrelevant.

But I address myself to your continuum of dull sock puppets, as you are well aware.

In terms of your response, you (and others) pushed a few buttons and got the response you were after. You now want to play wide-eyed innocence and chuck in a few light hearted exclamation marks! again, well your schtick is as monotonous as ever. Any one with a brain is aware of the issues, anyone without doesn't care what they are.


What favour do you believe he needs from anyone here, that would be served by an update? If there is anything interesting your favours aren't needed; if there isn't, your favours are pointless.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 12, 2012, 02:15:20 PM
"Who is Mary?"

Well that's a question a few people have been interested in. I'm not personally, in the definitive sense; who you are IRL is irrelevant.

But I address myself to your continuum of dull sock puppets, as you are well aware.

Apologies, I dont follow what the "who is Mary" and "sock puppet" comments mean - can you explain?

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In terms of your response, you (and others) pushed a few buttons and got the response you were after. You now want to play wide-eyed innocence and chuck in a few light hearted exclamation marks! again, well your schtick is as monotonous as ever. Any one with a brain is aware of the issues, anyone without doesn't care what they are.

Explanation marks, smilies, I love 'em. Its about the only way you can put a forum post into some kind of context (humorous, angry etc). The standard assumption here is that everythings said by a skeptic is said in an angry or sarcastic tone, TBH most of it is the latter.

With regards to the issues, I am not sure that I am aware of the issues and I do have a brain. Can you clarify what the issues are (if you have a brain?).....wait for it........!
I also think that if some of the issues were shared on here we have enough collective intelligence to at least have some valid input to help solve them. Since its a closed ship we have no visibility.
PJH Has a priority date on the patent so he has some level of protection.

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What favour do you believe he needs from anyone here, that would be served by an update? If there is anything interesting your favours aren't needed; if there isn't, your favours are pointless.

Sharing the issues and having our collective intelligence help him work through them. Thats what seems to happen on this forum, people have a go at a project and run into trouble and ask for help...which is generally given. Thats kind of the point of the forum. Its not a 'look at this, its 100% proven and will change the world, but I cannot prove it or share info' forum....or is it?

He is having issues, he has at least said that  -(and you have made clear that anyone with a brain is aware of the issues) how about sharing the issues and getting some help, where is the problem?

If his claims are true then 'changing the world' could, potentially, only be held back by these issues.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: vrstud on December 12, 2012, 04:38:34 PM
That would be the bedroom tinkering :P  Besides, wouldn't be too popular, lets make you cold and "hot" at the same time.


@vrstud


So you want to be the first one out with a quenco powered vibrator? :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2012, 07:04:45 PM
Your "first" post?  Not likely!  You simply grab another user name, so that you can talk trash. 
You are simply and completely wrong.
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Be PATIENT!  At least he is attempting to do something, and he would not continue to post here if there was nothing to it.
It's not a question of patience period.  Either Philip is a competent manager or he isn't.  If you want me believe that Quenco really works then that forces me to believe he is poor at managing this endeavour.

Philip hasn't updated the Quenco site because he has no functioning quencos.  It's very likely that he can't have them as any Maxwell's Demon device is essentially a computing device.  The fact that Philip maintains that there is some 2LOT hole at the quantum level not only breaks Lord Kelvins interpretation of 2LOT it would also likely violates algorithmic information theory.
Quote from: someone who I'm too lazy to bother looking up their name to make this more complete
I agree Bruce this sarkeizen is just a cowardly troll here under another name so he can take cheap shots at someone
...and of course if TWO people think something it MUST be true.

I'm here because this is a place Phil posts and I think it's worth mentioning how long and hard he's pushed the "it's almost there button".  Believe if you want in Quencoism but you also must believe that Phil is a lousy manager...or cook up some special definition of "good manager" which includes his poor practices.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 12, 2012, 08:26:52 PM
So unfortunaely Quentron is not delivering on the "promised delayed date" after December 1st was promised as the "real drop-dead date."

I am not surprised at all.  Lumen and a few others around here can eat crow.  Lumen even had the gall to upload a picture of "crow pie" about three weeks ago to "shame" the skeptics and I posted back that you shouldn't count your chickens before they were hatched.

This whole thing has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese and I could write up a long posting detailing them but I won't bother.

All I can do is ask the fanboys to do some soul searching.  Why can't you ask some polite technical questions of these dubious free energy promoters or politely ask for some evidence of prototypes, preliminary test data, whatever?  Instead all that you do is cheer and otherwise you are mute in anticipation.  If any of you had the desire and will to ask Philip some basic reasonable questions the cracks in the foundation would have started to show right away.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: steeltpu on December 12, 2012, 09:37:01 PM
You are simply and completely wrong.It's not a question of patience period.  Either Philip is a competent manager or he isn't.  If you want me believe that Quenco really works then that forces me to believe he is poor at managing this endeavour.

Philip hasn't updated the Quenco site because he has no functioning quencos.  It's very likely that he can't have them as any Maxwell's Demon device is essentially a computing device.  The fact that Philip maintains that there is some 2LOT hole at the quantum level not only breaks Lord Kelvins interpretation of 2LOT it would also likely violates algorithmic information theory....and of course if TWO people think something it MUST be true.

I'm here because this is a place Phil posts and I think it's worth mentioning how long and hard he's pushed the "it's almost there button".  Believe if you want in Quencoism but you also must believe that Phil is a lousy manager...or cook up some special definition of "good manager" which includes his poor practices.

and how many cutting edge never-before-done earth changing projects have you accomplished to be such a bloody expert on how things are done and how long it takes????  U show up here on Dec. 7th for first time and your first post is trying to shred somebodies reputation? 

 U aren't fooling anyone here.  u are nothing but an f***ing troll with bad intentions and much of what you said is outright lies.   

i'd expect a new technology like this to take 5 to 10 years to be in production.   right now we are being asked to wait until feb. 2013 for a product release and 6 more months for it to be in full production.   i think that is amazing if it happens that fast.   details are up on quentron.com with good explanations.   i fully expected it wouldn't happen before end of this year. 

 he says all technical details have been resolved.  the only thing it requires now is patience.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2012, 10:21:24 PM
and how many cutting edge never-before-done earth changing projects have you accomplished to be such a bloody expert on how things are done and how long it takes????
That's the point about things which have never been done before.  You don't know how long it takes.  So it is bad management to say you do.  Philip says he does - frequently - and has been wrong every. single. time. For well over a year.

It would be different if you had a working part made through the same process then scaling up would, in theory be possible to determine how long something would take.  However even *then* companies often miss the mark.   So you build your schedules with the necessary slack time.  Philip, even if he had a working part of this kind, which he probably doesn't doesn't  do this.  He is a *bad* manager.
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U show up here on Dec. 7th
11th.  Not 7th.
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for first time and your first post is trying to shred somebodies reputation?
So I'm trying to keep score.  Is that one vote for my post on the 11th for being my first and two votes for me being someone else who has posted before? Or are you being ironic and that's three (poorly informed) votes for me being someone else?
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much of what you said is outright lies.
I notice that you forgot to mention exactly *what* you think is a lie.
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i'd expect a new technology like this to take 5 to 10 years to be in production.
Then it's bad to tell people it will be just a few months...and it's even worse to keep telling people that each time you don't make your deadline right?  Just like Philip.
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right now we are being asked to wait until feb. 2013
Which is exactly what he said last year, at just about this time.
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details are up on quentron.com with good explanations.
Only if you haven't been listening to him.  According to the last site update it sounded an awful lot like he was expecting a shipment of quencos with barium emitters.  According to him it takes very little to package or use the device (don't you remember when he was talking about using them as hearing aid batteries? He said this.).  At the very least it would be possible to wire one by hand.

Now if I'm wrong there (or Philip is telling less than the truth) and the quencos do require significant finishing.  Then any manager that wasn't horrible would have booked that equipment in advance rather than miss an INTERNATIONAL PRODUCT LAUNCH date.  If you didn't then you know right well you probably wouldn't have made the date.    If you know that you won't hit a product launch and you keep telling people you will - you are a *bad* manager.  Today (or yesterday if he was running on ACT) was the *PRODUCT LAUNCH* that means there is PRODUCT that is usable in some sense of the term. 

Evidence suggests that Philip either is a terrible manager or he simply does not have functioning Quencos.
Quote
i fully expected it wouldn't happen before end of this year. 
So did I but Philip said otherwise.
Quote
he says all technical details have been resolved.  the only thing it requires now is patience.
So far Philip has shown himself to be an abysmal manager.  Why would you take the word of a bad manager on an issue which is primarily about production.  Feel free to accept his opinion as a (geo) physicist or an EE or whatever.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 13, 2012, 02:18:17 AM
Oh well we will have to wait for February to come around, lets hope all the teething troubles will be ironed out by then.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 02:26:20 AM
Oh well we will have to wait for February to come around, lets hope all the teething troubles will be ironed out by then.
...and if not...when do you stop believing?

Also consider that Philip says: "For those waiting for this to become a reality all I can say is that I have no doubt we will succeed in February"

No doubt...a complete absence of uncertainty.  If he doesn't make it in Feb will you at least admit he knows zero about managing delivery schedules?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 13, 2012, 03:49:26 AM
You are simply and completely wrong.It's not a question of patience period.  Either Philip is a competent manager or he isn't.  If you want me believe that Quenco really works then that forces me to believe he is poor at managing this endeavour.

Philip hasn't updated the Quenco site because he has no functioning quencos.  It's very likely that he can't have them as any Maxwell's Demon device is essentially a computing device.  The fact that Philip maintains that there is some 2LOT hole at the quantum level not only breaks Lord Kelvins interpretation of 2LOT it would also likely violates algorithmic information theory....and of course if TWO people think something it MUST be true.

I'm here because this is a place Phil posts and I think it's worth mentioning how long and hard he's pushed the "it's almost there button".  Believe if you want in Quencoism but you also must believe that Phil is a lousy manager...or cook up some special definition of "good manager" which includes his poor practices.

For me, it is not a matter of "believing" or not.  It is a matter of how we treat someone else on this forum, who for all intents and purposes, owe neither you, nor I anything, not even an explanation.  Also, Phillip has been a member of this forum far longer than yourself.  If you want to be discouraged over the delays, that is your perogative.  But remember, he owes nothing to any of us, and only posts out of respect for some members in this forum.

As many years as some of us here have been working on projects, another couple of months is hardly a big deal at all.

My personal opinion is that we are living in a fantasy land if we think for a moment that the government will not intervene if quanco does work as advertised.  No way in a zillion years, they would risk the economy and millions of oil jobs.  They will cite "national security" and it too will go away with all of the others.

Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 04:24:43 AM
For me, it is not a matter of "believing" or not.
Actually it is.  Like it or not you do have to come to one of those conclusions.  Either Philip is managing this project badly or not (or you can make up some definition of "not badly" which includes bad practices).   Right now, if you want to believe that Quenco is real then you pretty much have to believe that Philip has managed things badly.
Quote
It is a matter of how we treat someone else on this forum, who for all intents and purposes, owe neither you, nor I anything, not even an explanation.
Uh you realize that you have strongly asserted that we owe Philip something (a certain kind of treatment) but he owes us absolutely nothing.  I mean you're wrong but it's worth pointing out that inconsistency.  I'd say, and you will agree because you're not a moron.  That he owes us honesty.

However either he has been dishonest about his schedules OR he has been inept.  Which is just being dishonest about the level of confidence we should have.  For example right now he is saying "I have no doubt we will succeed in February" so if he fails there in a place where he has ZERO doubt.  Isn't that an example of dishonesty?  Having no doubt when you know that you should?  You either know you know for sure or you are lying that you know for sure.
Quote
Also, Phillip has been a member of this forum far longer than yourself.
What?  All of a sudden I really am a new poster?  No apology either for being so utterly and completely wrong?
Quote
If you want to be discouraged over the delays, that is your perogative.
I'm pointing out some rather obvious logical consequences of someone who has said "a few more weeks" for well over a year.
Quote
only posts out of respect for some members in this forum.
Please restrict yourself to stating things you can actually know.
Quote
As many years as some of us here have been working on projects, another couple of months is hardly a big deal at all.
Ok and when he fails in Feb?  How about then?  June?  He fails there too?   December?  In December 2013 he says "It will be done in February 2014 for sure".    At what point - if you can not believe that Quenco isn't working.  Do you have to believe that Phillip sucked in a deep and abiding way at managing this?  2015? 2016? 2020?  Just let me know what it will take.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 13, 2012, 05:12:05 AM
Actually it is.  Like it or not you do have to come to one of those conclusions.  Either Philip is managing this project badly or not (or you can make up some definition of "not badly" which includes bad practices).   Right now, if you want to believe that Quenco is real then you pretty much have to believe that Philip has managed things badly.Uh you realize that you have strongly asserted that we owe Philip something (a certain kind of treatment) but he owes us absolutely nothing.  I mean you're wrong but it's worth pointing out that inconsistency.  I'd say, and you will agree because you're not a moron.  That he owes us honesty.
 
If Philip is managing the project, not up to your standards or specifications, I suggest you write him your brilliant managerial assistance that will help him.  Considering that you have built nothing, nor contributed nothing to this forum, but taking up useless bandwidth to be critical of a man because you feel "let down" or "lied to" somehow, get over it dude!  And get over yourself.  My last post to you should have been enough, but know, you have to keep on..... like a troll would.  Are you a troll, just repeating and repeating and repeating yourself?  It is HIS project to do with what he will.  He can take it and shut it down tomorrow if he chooses.  Or he can delay until 2016.  Truth is, who really cares?  It will be here when it get here, if it gets here.  All of your pissing in the wind contributes nothing to the end result... is MY point.  Get it?   ::) ::)   ~ Bruce


However either he has been dishonest about his schedules OR he has been inept.  Which is just being dishonest about the level of confidence we should have.  For example right now he is saying "I have no doubt we will succeed in February" so if he fails there in a place where he has ZERO doubt.  Isn't that an example of dishonesty?  Having no doubt when you know that you should?  You either know you know for sure or you are lying that you know for sure.What?  All of a sudden I really am a new poster?  No apology either for being so utterly and completely wrong?I'm pointing out some rather obvious logical consequences of someone who has said "a few more weeks" for well over a year.Please restrict yourself to stating things you can actually know.Ok and when he fails in Feb?  How about then?  June?  He fails there too?   December?  In December 2013 he says "It will be done in February 2014 for sure".    At what point - if you can not believe that Quenco isn't working.  Do you have to believe that Phillip sucked in a deep and abiding way at managing this?  2015? 2016? 2020?  Just let me know what it will take.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on December 13, 2012, 05:46:50 AM
Hi All,


Just popped in to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy new year.


I have posted my latest excuse on the quentron website :-)


Apparently some nasty troll here wants me to admit I am not good at management, ok I will admit that, I will also say that I am naive, overly optimistic, believe experts, have faith in the overall good of humanity and hope that we are all prepared to be honest with each other when there is so much as stake.


Why some people want Quenco to be wrong or fools gold I cannot fathom, all I can say is that I use my real name, that I am 100% sure that Quenco will become the power generation device that will power our futures and that it will be very very cheap.


That people call me names is hurtful, it bothers me, I have children and friends that read and hear things, and friends and acquaintances that become aware of these cheap shots. However at this stage I know that no such negative and viscous attacks can stop something now in so many hands, people who know all I have said is true and that Quenco is beyond doubt.


I am happy with the failures of the last few months because they were only delays. The delays caused by issues not related to Quenco and outside my control gave me / us time to deal with other matters that now makes building Quenco easy. For instance when I first arrived at Stanford the prior work done by Australian scientists gave me a head start but when we considered the need to reduce dimensions still further to overcome the substitution of barium (because we could not get permission for its use) with Yttrium, we came up against some issues regarding dielectric defects and strength, in the time we had we found a method using RTA (rapid thermal annealing wherein we could improve the dielectric properties by about 70x. We also worked out a reliable method to selectively etch SiO2 without any damage to HfO2. All in all we lost time to make the quenco this year but we used the time productively such that our work in February is now just a matter of schedule, not of trail and error, of course we still need to apply process controls of characterization and witness plates, but once these are done we can make a batch of quenco just like any production line. NOTE single layer at this point in time.


As far as expected results with the ability to have better dielectric strength and thinner layers the use of a 3.1ev emitter (yttrium) in no way limits the quenco, in other words we are totally comfortable with device currents of more than 1,000A per cm2, and we now feel that we can increase the voltage per layer to 100mV. Without question multilayer Quenco will always be limited by the ability to get heat in so talk of 10,000A per cm2 is irrelevant but nonetheless the modelling says that is easily achieved.


I still make the point that the big inventions and tasks ahead are how to use Quenco to it maximum utility. I have said it to many and will say it now, my job is done in February, after the release of the samples to the licencees a lot of money flows to the foundation, not to me, and that becomes the premier research organisation to take Quenco forward.


I note someone called me greedy and such, may i say that is unfair, check the overunity prize and see that I have made the largest pledge of funds, and that my website (crude as it is) stated that all the royalties go to the foundation. My reasoning for not making this open source are based upon a lot of consideration of submissions made from forum members and others. Realities are that only a very small number of people have the money to get things going, without those industrialists quenco cannot do anything for climate change and nothing for the poor. If you believe that open sourcing is a better option then you are mistaken, it sounds good but then so does socialism. The best we can do is to make a good deal with the devil (Capitalism).


Now this really is my last post for this year but I will come back once Quenco is finished so I can gloat at the noted silence of some.


BYE
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 06:06:31 AM
If Philip is managing the project, not up to your standards or specifications, I suggest you write him your brilliant managerial assistance that will help him.
It's not even a question of MY standards.  It's a question of "what standards are reasonable?".
Quote
Considering that you have built nothing,
Again please confine yourself to statements you can know.
Quote
nor contributed nothing to this forum, but taking up useless bandwidth to be critical of a man because you feel "let down" or "lied to" somehow
Again it's not a question of how I feel.  It's a simple question of what is reasonable.  Is it reasonable to believe that Philip managed this project badly or not.  If the tech is real then it's hard to argue that he didn't do things poorly.  Again it's not a question of "feeling" lied to.  Either he told the truth or he didn't.  Either he knew that the deadlines were stupidly optimistic or he didn't.  If he did then he lied to us.  If he didn't he lied implicitly in terms of confidence he portrayed.

Quote
My last post to you should have been enough
The only person with a humongous ego here appears to be you.  Or did you get elected to the "council who decides what is and is not enough"....Must have missed the memo.

Quote
It is HIS project to do with what he will.  He can take it and shut it down tomorrow if he chooses.
Nobody has questioned that...please confine yourself to relevant arguments.
Quote
Truth is, who really cares?  It will be here when it get here, if it gets here.
So if someone said to you every day for a year: "It will get here tomorrow, for sure!" that doesn't erode your faith in their statement?  What about two years?  Twenty?  No?  Never?  You would never, ever change your estimation of their word regardless?  I suspect you're attempting to shift the discussion here because it's uncomfortable for you.  That's just speculation though.
Quote
All of your pissing in the wind contributes nothing to the end result... is MY point.  Get it?
However pointing out that someone is probably shouldn't be trusted in a particular sense with rather well thought out arguments (a statmentto which you will make a criticism without substance) might shift peoples attention to something more worthwhile. 

Or are only cheerleaders allowed here?  You should put that in a sticky somewhere.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 06:26:45 AM
Apparently some nasty troll here
I figure someone like Philip would be old enough to use the term "troll" in it's classical sense.
Quote
wants me to admit I am not good at management, ok I will admit that, I will also say that I am naive, overly optimistic, believe experts, have faith in the overall good of humanity and hope that we are all prepared to be honest with each other when there is so much as stake.
How about saying "I, Phil Hardcastle suck at management"?  I've read over a number of your hugely boastful posts you've placed here and in that moletrap place you mentioned.  Considering how much business acumen you say you have.  Is it really reasonable to accept the "I was fooled" excuse? How many times were you fooled?  It seems like a lot, it's been over a year apparently.  Again, at what point SHOULD we discount your credibility? Feb? Mar? December?  Feb 2014? 

Quote
Why some people want Quenco to be wrong or fools gold I cannot fathom
I can't fathom all the strawmen in your post.  What people want is orthogonal to what is being discussed.
Quote
, all I can say is that I use my real name, that I am 100% sure that Quenco will become the power generation device that will power our futures and that it will be very very cheap.
...and nobody should find that compelling in and of itself.
Quote
That people call me names is hurtful, it bothers me, I have children and friends that read and hear things, and friends and acquaintances that become aware of these cheap shots.
Please differentiate between describing you and calling you a name.  I can only speak for myself but I'm making a pretty objective, if colourful analysis.  Really, I've met some pretty terrible managers...and none of them would have made the scheduling errors you appear to make...repeatedly...for over a year.

Quote
However at this stage I know that no such negative and viscous attacks can stop something now in so many hands, people who know all I have said is true and that Quenco is beyond doubt.
Yawn.  There is simply no such thing.  Open your mind even a micrometer.  The amount of evidence for 2LOT outweighs the amount you have produced against it by so many orders of magnitude it's not even funny.  However you are asking people to doubt based pretty much entirely on your word.  So if something like 2LOT can be in doubt - even slightly.  Then clearly YOUR ideas can not, by extension be without doubt.  Logic.

Quote
but once these are done we can make a batch of quenco just like any production line.
heard it before.
Quote
my job is done in February
heard it before.
Quote
Now this really is my last post for this year
heard it before.
Quote
but I will come back once Quenco is finished so I can gloat at the noted silence of some.
Definitely heard that before too.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 13, 2012, 06:27:07 AM
I don't buy what you are saying Philip.  All that I see from you is talk.  There are too many things missing in your narrative, such that you have no substance.

About a month or so ago there were some links related to your project, most of them were about a year old.  I read what you had to say by following those links.  You were unable to properly articulate the technical aspects about the electrical output from your device.  That's something that you should be able to do with ease.  You have never discussed the thermal issues in detail and how that relates to the electrical output.  You have never cited a test experiment with prototype device.  In fact, you have never even mentioned a prototype.  When you talk about "1000 amperes from one square centimeter" it's hard to take you seriously because there is no practical way to make a 1000-ampere hookup to a device that is one square centimeter in size.

You appear to be a one-man fabless semiconductor guy, and you seem to be almost nonchalant about claiming geometries that are smaller than the latest Intel and AMD semiconductor technology that's used in the latest generation of processing chips.  It costs hundreds of millions or perhaps billions of dollars to do a new generation of semiconductor technology at a reduced geometry, and yet we are supposed to believe that you are working with semiconductor layers that are about 15 hydrogen atoms thick.  That's smaller than what Intel and AMD are working with right now.

I don't know what your game is but your Internet footprint is almost nil.  If you were real and had what you say you have there would have to be an online presence for your alleged organization with multiple names popping up when you do some searching.

Nothing is going to happen in February, mark my words.  In fact nothing is ever going to happen.  That's my honest and unbiased appraisal of the current state of affairs.  For those of you that will get upset, if there was a sense of substance from Philip and there was an Internet footprint indicating a legitimate organization I would be saying something different.  Do you get it?  I am basing my opinion on the facts at hand, and not because I want to see Philip fail.

Why this "free energy dance" is going on is unknown.  You would have to really know what is going on in Philip's head.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 13, 2012, 11:01:10 AM
Hi All,


Just popped in to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy new year.


I have posted my latest excuse on the quentron website :-)


Apparently some nasty troll here wants me to admit I am not good at management, ok I will admit that, I will also say that I am naive, overly optimistic, believe experts, have faith in the overall good of humanity and hope that we are all prepared to be honest with each other when there is so much as stake.


Why some people want Quenco to be wrong or fools gold I cannot fathom, all I can say is that I use my real name, that I am 100% sure that Quenco will become the power generation device that will power our futures and that it will be very very cheap.


That people call me names is hurtful, it bothers me, I have children and friends that read and hear things, and friends and acquaintances that become aware of these cheap shots. However at this stage I know that no such negative and viscous attacks can stop something now in so many hands, people who know all I have said is true and that Quenco is beyond doubt.


I am happy with the failures of the last few months because they were only delays. The delays caused by issues not related to Quenco and outside my control gave me / us time to deal with other matters that now makes building Quenco easy. For instance when I first arrived at Stanford the prior work done by Australian scientists gave me a head start but when we considered the need to reduce dimensions still further to overcome the substitution of barium (because we could not get permission for its use) with Yttrium, we came up against some issues regarding dielectric defects and strength, in the time we had we found a method using RTA (rapid thermal annealing wherein we could improve the dielectric properties by about 70x. We also worked out a reliable method to selectively etch SiO2 without any damage to HfO2. All in all we lost time to make the quenco this year but we used the time productively such that our work in February is now just a matter of schedule, not of trail and error, of course we still need to apply process controls of characterization and witness plates, but once these are done we can make a batch of quenco just like any production line. NOTE single layer at this point in time.


As far as expected results with the ability to have better dielectric strength and thinner layers the use of a 3.1ev emitter (yttrium) in no way limits the quenco, in other words we are totally comfortable with device currents of more than 1,000A per cm2, and we now feel that we can increase the voltage per layer to 100mV. Without question multilayer Quenco will always be limited by the ability to get heat in so talk of 10,000A per cm2 is irrelevant but nonetheless the modelling says that is easily achieved.


I still make the point that the big inventions and tasks ahead are how to use Quenco to it maximum utility. I have said it to many and will say it now, my job is done in February, after the release of the samples to the licencees a lot of money flows to the foundation, not to me, and that becomes the premier research organisation to take Quenco forward.


I note someone called me greedy and such, may i say that is unfair, check the overunity prize and see that I have made the largest pledge of funds, and that my website (crude as it is) stated that all the royalties go to the foundation. My reasoning for not making this open source are based upon a lot of consideration of submissions made from forum members and others. Realities are that only a very small number of people have the money to get things going, without those industrialists quenco cannot do anything for climate change and nothing for the poor. If you believe that open sourcing is a better option then you are mistaken, it sounds good but then so does socialism. The best we can do is to make a good deal with the devil (Capitalism).


Now this really is my last post for this year but I will come back once Quenco is finished so I can gloat at the noted silence of some.


BYE
Hi Philip,
 
I think we should all choose to ignore the attention seeking trolls from this point.  Thank you again for the update and taking the time to write.  Best of luck to you and we will see you in February.
 
Merry Christmas!   :)
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 13, 2012, 11:42:04 AM
Thanks for the info Phil. Hope you have a great Christmas home in Australia.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on December 13, 2012, 03:12:22 PM
Apparently some nasty troll here wants me to admit I am not good at management, ok I will admit that, I will also say that I am naive, overly optimistic, believe experts, have faith in the overall good of humanity and hope that we are all prepared to be honest with each other when there is so much as stake.

Friend Philip,

It's great, have good news you're okay.

Trolls are very good in the process of show to us the true human nature, we are all selfish, enjoy when others fail just for the pleasure of feeling superior, we are not sensitive to what happens to others, alone we care that we are well and we have the reason.

If we have the pleasure of receiving updates on your progress with Quenco, this does not satisfy us, we always want more and more. These trolls never have enough, if you give them information reports will ask then, if you give one then be asked 2 if you give 2 them will be asked 3 then 3, and so on to infinity, look at the rich, no amount of money is enough for them, always want more and more money without limits. So are we all, our selfishness is not satisfied with anything and always wants more.

Let the trolls alone, they only will change with proper education.

In general human nature constantly make us think on how to have more, how to own more. When we must to develop us, be taught to do the opposite, we must continually think as give more, as we are more sensitive towards other human beings and the planet.

So the solution to the world's problems, not is Quenco, the solution is integral education, learn to think, to reason, learn to be sensitive, to learn to work together, learn to think out of the box, learn to be a real human.

Quenco is a great catalyst of this solution, with money of the foundation, the foundation of Philip, we can change the education system, implementing comprehensive education worldwide, and from there work on solving the other problems of society, food, work, home, etc.. But it all starts with the shift to the right kind of education.

Philip, great work !,You've done a lot in a very short time, has come a long way, and all your efforts will be rewarded with success.

Take a vacation, relax, enjoy share with your family, sure when you return in January to continue working with Quenco, God will arise in your mind great ideas and solutions to soon have a multi-layer Quenco.

Happy holidays to all, 


The Eternal God guide us !
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: truesearch on December 13, 2012, 03:31:38 PM
Philip:


Keep up the good work and good luck to you!


And a very merry Christmas and happy new year to you and your family.


truesearch
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 04:16:52 PM
I think we should all choose to ignore the attention seeking trolls from this point. 
Hmmm....Philip is supposedly against namecalling but that's pretty much all you guys are doing.  Calling someone a "troll" is namecalling and also an implicit ad hominem attack.  Look it's ok to like Philip for whatever reasons but there's no reason to let go of your rationality at the same time.  I've got friends who I would never loan more than a dollar to.  They're still my friends but objective data says that they would use the money to hurt themselves or someone else.  So in order to be responsible with my money I have to make decisions about probable outcomes based on objective data.

Likewise with Philip.  You simply have to look at the objective data concerning his ability to deliver and make some kinds of rational dispassionate decisions.  Is he likely to have a good grasp of what it takes to deliver a product on a specified date.  If yes, then at what point do you stop believing that?  How many failures will it take to affect your judgement.  If the answer is "no amount of failures" then you're not really making a rational decision.   Likewise and I hesitate to bring this up here where emotions run your lives but there would, rationally speaking be a point at which a number of failures would tell us that Philip is simply not the man for the job.  Not that he might not have value elsewhere but he simply shouldn't be leading this kind of project.  Especially if there are $100's of millions of dollars invested from other companies (or potential revenue).  Philip has on many occasions told us that his lack of disclosure it to protect the interests of other companies.  Do you really think that such interests don't extend to some level of executive control?  Like I said, all of this sounds like someone who hasn't managed more than a lemonade stand.
Quote from: Elisha, but probably not the prophet
Let the trolls alone, they only will change with proper education.
More namecalling and ad hominem.
Quote
So the solution to the world's problems, not is Quenco, the solution is integral education, learn to think, to reason, learn to be sensitive, to learn to work together, learn to think out of the box, learn to be a real human.
Exactly where does Philp do any of this.  Really Quenco is exceptionally scant on information, like near nothing useful.  Philip can't or won't respond to arguments, has zero doubts (why doesn't that worry anyone?).  This is the world you think is better.  Where everyone tells you unlikely things and never, ever has to produce useful evidence to support this?  Is that really thinking?  It sounds like the opposite.  Philips arguments are by and large arguments from authority...so is that "reasoning" or "thinking"?  Logicians, thinkers would probably say "no".

Quote from: trim12
Thanks for the info Phil. Hope you have a great Christmas home in Australia.
Where was the info?  If you look closely he spent a fair amount of time talking about things irrelevant to the fact that quencos - which he was expecting to be delivered with barium emitters and require so little finishing work that they would be ready for the international product launch in a couple of days - mostly for pictures.

You also have avoided my question.  What happens in Feb?  Will you still think Philip knows what he's talking about when he says "June".  What about in June?  What if December 2013 he says "for sure in Feb 2014" are you still going to assume that he knows what he's talking about?  If so, when does your judgement shift? 

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 13, 2012, 05:40:12 PM
The problem is that many people here are late in arriving. Philip had posted many different updates on his web page describing the Quenco process and theory and at times probably gave more information into it's operation than he wanted.

If you are one of those late people then it simply sucks to be you and you should just get over it and do some research. There are many devices that exhibit similar properties to the operation of a Quenco chip if you look into it.

The tunnel diode has a similar effect but requires a bias current because the barrier is much thicker that the proposed Quenco chip.

Mosfet gate tunneling became a problem when the gate barriers were reduced under 90nm, another similar effect.

In fact, the current limit in CPU is about 65nm and requires reduced voltages so the electrons don't tunnel through.
So you can see that tunneling is a real effect that occurs at a voltage dependent on the barrier thickness.
Now if you can reduce the barrier to something very small like 3nm and you provide a voltage only by the difference in work function of two different metals, then with just a tiny bit of heat, an electron could tunnel the barrier and cause a current to flow.

This is only MY view of a working Quenco based on information from Philip and my own research.
Quenco works not to defy the laws of physics, but because of the laws of physics!

I for one am very convinced that Quenco is a real device that Philip will get into production in a fast time frame.

Just think if Edison was trying to make a light bulb, how some would be calling him a fraud and if it worked he should have it by now and just a flash from his device was not useful and on and on and on, just like they do now with other peoples ventures.

The facts are that most skeptics are just jealous people that have accomplished nothing in their own life and have little self esteem.




Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 13, 2012, 06:03:16 PM
Lumen:

Quote
The facts are that most skeptics are just jealous people that have accomplished nothing in their own life and have little self esteem.

You have got to be kidding, that's just a nonsensical and gratuitous ad hominem attack.  You and others are uncomfortable with Philips's failure to deliver yet again, so in frustration you attack others that don't share your opinion.  Other contributors to this thread have done the same thing as you.

Shame on all of you that have done this, we are here to discuss Philip and the Quentron free energy proposition.  Try to stick to the subject at hand.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Elisha on December 13, 2012, 06:33:48 PM
More namecalling and ad hominem.Exactly where does Philp do any of this.

Sorry is not just you, everyone have a troll inside also me ! but must be jailed inside.

This is the world you think is better.  Where everyone tells you unlikely things and never, ever has to produce useful evidence to support this?  Is that really thinking?  It sounds like the opposite.  Philips arguments are by and large arguments from authority...so is that "reasoning" or "thinking"?  Logicians, thinkers would probably say "no".

You are late to the party, Philip give us a Theory, drawings, explains, and also very important a simple test,  I do the simple test with the vacuum tube and by myself experiment I can tell you, THIS WORK !   This is real education, try by yourself not just to believe in words in the air from someone.

You also have avoided my question.  What happens in Feb?  Will you still think Philip knows what he's talking about when he says "June".  What about in June?  What if December 2013 he says "for sure in Feb 2014" are you still going to assume that he knows what he's talking about?  If so, when does your judgement shift?

All the life is a learning process, keep one eye open !,  Philip is learning a lot about nano deposition process, then in some time Philip will have a Working Quenco, if this is not in February don't worry, he dont is asking money from us.

If you observe the life with care, we the humans dont have any control about what happen. if you think you have control over your life and your actions, you have not yet seen life carefully. It's just our pride and littleness that makes us think that we are in control of something, the truth is that nothing is under our control. Clearly with this, I'm not saying that we should not plan, you have to plan and prepare everything in advance, but be sure that our plans will be met as design is just the lack of seeing what happens in real life.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 13, 2012, 07:27:51 PM
The problem is that many people here are late in arriving. Philip had posted many different updates on his web page describing the Quenco process and theory and at times probably gave more information into it's operation than he wanted.

If you are one of those late people then it simply sucks to be you and you should just get over it and do some research. There are many devices that exhibit similar properties to the operation of a Quenco chip if you look into it.

The tunnel diode has a similar effect but requires a bias current because the barrier is much thicker that the proposed Quenco chip.

Mosfet gate tunneling became a problem when the gate barriers were reduced under 90nm, another similar effect.

In fact, the current limit in CPU is about 65nm and requires reduced voltages so the electrons don't tunnel through.
So you can see that tunneling is a real effect that occurs at a voltage dependent on the barrier thickness.
Now if you can reduce the barrier to something very small like 3nm and you provide a voltage only by the difference in work function of two different metals, then with just a tiny bit of heat, an electron could tunnel the barrier and cause a current to flow.

This is only MY view of a working Quenco based on information from Philip and my own research.
Quenco works not to defy the laws of physics, but because of the laws of physics!

I for one am very convinced that Quenco is a real device that Philip will get into production in a fast time frame.

Just think if Edison was trying to make a light bulb, how some would be calling him a fraud and if it worked he should have it by now and just a flash from his device was not useful and on and on and on, just like they do now with other peoples ventures.

The facts are that most skeptics are just jealous people that have accomplished nothing in their own life and have little self esteem.
Hi Lumen,
 
A very well written post, indeed.  From what I understand of the Quenco, and posted a few pages back, you have indeed hit the proverbial nail on the head.  As I also mentioned, the thinner the material, the greater the probability for tunneling.  The idea is really quit ingenious.  Use that effect to your advantage, and create a material so thin as to make the tunneling a certainty.  I can see, as usually is the case, the practical application , can be more daunting than the working theory, even when that theory is true.  Then stack them and you are good to go.  I too think that this may turn out to be the real deal, indeed.  But not something that can be built in our home lab.... lol.
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on December 13, 2012, 07:54:58 PM
You are late to the party, Philip give us a Theory, drawings, explains, and also very important a simple test,  I do the simple test with the vacuum tube and by myself experiment I can tell you, THIS WORK ! 

THIS does not work, because THIS does not exist! You made test on vacuum tube, not on THIS. Since its operating principle seems very simple, a possible technology seems not so simple: it is a matter of producing (and handling) a plate, or rather a flake which thickness is measured in fractions of Ångström (single atoms).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on December 13, 2012, 08:07:21 PM
@sarkeizen

I am with you!


Now if you can reduce the barrier to something very small like 3nm and you provide a voltage only by the difference in work function of two different metals, then with just a tiny bit of heat, an electron could tunnel the barrier and cause a current to flow.

There is a lot of scientific papers trying to scientifically prove that thermionic emission could in fact violate the 2nd law. Fine with that, since this is peer-review science. The point that Phil seems not to understand is that the current flow cannot be higher than the thermionic emission of the emitter. And this is very very low (less that 10^-7 A/cm^2). Tunnelling can't multiply anything, it can't create charge or energy from nothing.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 10:13:11 PM
The problem is that many people here are late in arriving. Philip had posted many different updates on his web page
You could at least have the decency to read my post before misinterpreting it like Bruce.  This is not a problem for me I've read his web page for a little more than a year.  I've read just about every post he's made here and a fair number at moletrap.  I've read a number of the postings of his that have made it onto other forua on the internet.  My prior statements stand, primarily Philip has made arguments by authority which should really carry no weight with anyone.
Quote
If you are one of those late people then it simply sucks to be you and you should just get over it and do some research.
Perhaps before vieing for "most arrogant person on earth" (which put you up against some pretty stiff competition like Philip) you should think a bit more.
Quote
There are many devices that exhibit similar properties to the operation of a Quenco chip if you look into it.

The tunnel diode has a similar effect but requires a bias current because the barrier is much thicker that the proposed Quenco chip.

Mosfet gate tunneling became a problem when the gate barriers were reduced under 90nm, another similar effect.

In fact, the current limit in CPU is about 65nm and requires reduced voltages so the electrons don't tunnel through.
So you can see that tunneling is a real effect that occurs at a voltage dependent on the barrier thickness.
Wow, however particle tunneling isn't really the issue.  It's that this somehow lets you violate 2LOT (probably algorithmic information theory too) you are essentially arguing that carrots can produce carrot juice and carrot juice lets you run faster than the speed of light.  When questioned you assert how carrots are real things.

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I for one am very convinced that Quenco is a real device that Philip will get into production in a fast time frame.
Still dodging the rather big Elephant? What happens when he fails in Feb.  Do you believe that the probability of him delivering in June is the same? or does it go down?  What about the probability of him delivering in December when June fails?  At what point do you adjust your characterization of his abilities?
Quote
Just think if Edison was trying to make a light bulb, how some would be calling him a fraud and if it worked he should have it by now and just a flash from his device was not useful and on and on and on, just like they do now with other peoples ventures.
Argument by false analogy.  Edison was not attempting to break the second law of thermodynamics.   While I don't know what schedules he announced or didn't announce if it made as poor judgements as Philip then he was just as bad a manager as Philip appears to be.

Quote
The facts are that most skeptics are just jealous people that have accomplished nothing in their own life and have little self esteem.
More interesting is how poor people are at math.  For example in order for this dissonance preserving statement to be true.  You would have to have a randomized representative sample of skeptics as well as their lifes work.  Considering it seems unlikely that you would possess any of that.  Perhaps you might constrain yourself to something you actually know.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 10:38:25 PM
Sorry is not just you, everyone have a troll inside also me ! but must be jailed inside.
I am not trolling.  Stop namecalling and making ad hominem attacks.
Quote
You are late to the party, Philip give us a Theory, drawings, explains,
Perhaps your incredible arrogance could take a rest?  I have been reading his posts for quite some time.  Including his rotating thermionic generator and Fu's paper which predates Philip's earliest posting.  His drawings of Quenco are pretty much power point slides, nothing at all useful.  A theory isn't education in a useful sense of the term, I could make up a dozen theories.  Heck you could programmatically generate mathematical theorems. 
Quote
and also very important a simple test,  I do the simple test with the vacuum tube and by myself experiment I can tell you, THIS WORK !   This is real education, try by yourself not just to believe in words in the air from someone.
I hear some Mormons get a burning in their bosom and consider that a successful test.   Often it's repeatable too (or so they say).
As far as I can see the output is small enough and the isolation (in my environment) would be poor enough that it would be easy to end up reading something else.

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All the life is a learning process, keep one eye open !
And you have apparently shut both your eyes to his repeated failures.  Believe whatever you want about Quenco.   There is no reason to believe that Philip is any good at delivering on his promises.
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if this is not in February don't worry
If not in June 2013 do you worry then?  If not in December 2013 do you worry then?  How many failures would it take to convince you that Philip is the wrong man to be managing this endeavor?
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the truth is that nothing is under our control.
Ever estimate how many times a day you are entirely wrong?  For example I type about 70 wpm.  In the course of a day I decide to type various words probably about a thousand (error adjusted). However in order to do that I have to *CONTROL* my fingers.  That's like five thousand times you are wrong....every day.

Certainly there are things we do not expect.   However there are whole branches of math that let you deal with uncertainty.   The point is that uncertainty can be bounded.   This is what good managers do with schedules.    If you couldn't do this medicine would not have progressed beyond the dark ages.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 10:41:13 PM
Hi Lumen,
 
A very well written post, indeed.  From what I understand of the Quenco, and posted a few pages back, you have indeed hit the proverbial nail on the head.  As I also mentioned, the thinner the material, the greater the probability for tunneling.  The idea is really quit ingenious.  Use that effect to your advantage, and create a material so thin as to make the tunneling a certainty.  I can see, as usually is the case, the practical application , can be more daunting than the working theory, even when that theory is true.  Then stack them and you are good to go.  I too think that this may turn out to be the real deal, indeed.  But not something that can be built in our home lab.... lol.
Perhaps you can respond to Lumen without giving him a headfirst colonoscopy?  If you really think whether some particles under some conditions can tunnel is the big question here then you understand Philips work less than I do.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2012, 10:50:59 PM
@sarkeizen

I am with you!


There is a lot of scientific papers trying to scientifically prove that thermionic emission could in fact violate the 2nd law. Fine with that, since this is peer-review science. The point that Phil seems not to understand is that the current flow cannot be higher than the thermionic emission of the emitter. And this is very very low (less that 10^-7 A/cm^2). Tunnelling can't multiply anything, it can't create charge or energy from nothing.
Hey Hollander.

Interesting.
Can you give me the journal names, issue, volume, author and article name for some of this research?

One of my interests of 2LOT violations is that it probably has an effect on information theory.   One thing that makes me skeptical of someone citing a quantum effect which violate 2LOT is that I suspect this also implies that a quantum machine can violate BBBV.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 14, 2012, 12:01:52 AM
@sarkeizen

I am with you!


There is a lot of scientific papers trying to scientifically prove that thermionic emission could in fact violate the 2nd law. Fine with that, since this is peer-review science. The point that Phil seems not to understand is that the current flow cannot be higher than the thermionic emission of the emitter. And this is very very low (less that 10^-7 A/cm^2). Tunnelling can't multiply anything, it can't create charge or energy from nothing.

As I have always maintained, I don't fully understand the low-down technical details of Quenco but the statement above re the emitter current sounds pretty fundamental.
Do you have a link to the info?

100nAmp on a single cm^2 simply isn't useful :(

Ok, feel free to ridicule the simple (and presumptuous and likely wrong!) math below...

10,000,000nm in a cm.
2nm Quenco height plus some additional for the metals, say an optimistic 10nm total thickness?
In a cm^3 that's 10,000,000nm / 10nm or 1,000,000 layers.
100nAmp x 1,000,000 = 100mAmp

Now, I don't know what the voltage is going to be or whether there will actually be a million layers (that seems very extremely unlikely) but at a volt that's only 100mW.

I realise that this is 'trollish' behaviour but I am going to ask a sensible question to all here (sorry for hijacking your post, Hollander):

***
*** Is the statement about the emitter current being a max of 100nA true?
***

In the interests of pre-empting the usual responders:

1. This is a sensible question and is potentially a show-stopper.
2. An answer of 'yes' is acceptable along with a link to a paper and real proof or....see below...
3. An answer of 'no' needs to be backed up by scientific evidence of the 'actual real and proven' variety showing that its higher.
4. I am not selfish and I have a brain.
5. Humanity is great etc and our race won't advance without people questioning things.
6. Responding to this post with irrelevant stuff is fine.
7. I don't mind being called a troll - I am only trying to find out about Quenco and the man behind it so I can either add or remove from my 'watch' list. There is some much cr*p around that I need to do my own filtering - there just isn't enough time in the day to keep an eye on everything.
8. I am still divided between 'this is all bu£&@)it' and 'maybe there is something' - the question above (if answered with a proven 'no') will swing me back to the latter.
9. Contrary to popular belief, me, as a troll (or whatever playground name you wish to call me), have achieved quite a lot and built more things than I can count. Please stop with the 'you don't believe Phillip so you must be evil and stupid' speak - its really backfiring on you up to now.
10. Etc.

Ok, ready for the sh//st/rm.

Thanks

MBM

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: wideyed_tutank on December 14, 2012, 06:07:17 AM
So in the end it turns out to be a pissing contest between naturally abundant BARIUM & the not so abundant YTTRIUM.  :P


Ok, yttrium wins because it is less toxic,  but why is it ok to push barium into our bodies as enema and flat out deny it for QUENCO? >:( :o ???









Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: hollander on December 14, 2012, 11:14:36 AM
***
*** Is the statement about the emitter current being a max of 100nA true?
***

Yes, it may be even less than that, depending on environment temperature & work function of the emitter.
See, for instance,

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Thermionic+Emission

This is well known among physicists, to the point that it is difficult to provide a specific reference like it would be to provide a reference on the fact that water boils at 100°C.

@sarkeizen:

"Interesting.
Can you give me the journal names, issue, volume, author and article name for some of this research?"

I am collecting all the references, please be patient.

H0llander
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2012, 03:15:16 PM
Ok, yttrium wins because it is less toxic,  but why is it ok to push barium into our bodies as enema and flat out deny it for QUENCO? >:( :o ???
Welcome to about the level of research done in free energy fourms.  Barium is toxic however what you use in a LGI series is Barium Sulfate which is insoluble in water and so considerably more safe.  IIRC you refine Barite to make both metallic barium and barium sulfate.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on December 14, 2012, 05:25:01 PM

Hi All,


I see silly things being said by fools that parade and pretend to be knowledgeable, note when one says 100nA/cm2 max the other does not disagree, this is a classic example of bad intent, a genuine sceptic would question the postings of other sceptics when they make such a claim, but a troll will deliberately allow other trolls to say stupid things providing they are of a negative bias.


Anyway rather than letting these idiots stifle science with their BS I thought I could use some of my spare time to start a theory page. 

http://quentron.com/theory.html


Please be patient, it is a work in progress and it will take some time to finish, however by the time Quenco is publicly demonstrated early next year you can have the benefit of understanding in basic terms how it works. If I make a silly error let me know, I do not proof read and self editing is notorious for not seeing typo's.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2012, 05:41:46 PM
note when one says 100nA/cm2 max the other does not disagree, this is a classic example of bad intent, a genuine sceptic would question the postings of other sceptics when they make such a claim, but a troll will deliberately allow other trolls to say stupid things providing they are of a negative bias.
Wow, Phil two posts past the "last post of the year" you must really be riled up but how can that be when you have real operating quencos?  You could doubt that I have a left hand, you could say that having a left hand would violate the law of hands but you know what.  Actually having a left hand tends to makes me laugh at such statements rather than get riled (of course you'll probably now claim that you weren't but hey).  So it makes me wonder if what you have is significantly more tenuous than my left hand.

At least this time you didn't say "this will really, really be my last post of the year".  You could use some of that wisdom in your Quenco project.

Anyway, what are you talking about?  I see Hollander talking about violating 2LOT and a maximum 100nA/cm2. MBM asks for a reference on the 100nA/cm2 limit and I ask for papers about violating 2LOT with thermionic emissions.

Exactly HOW are we NOT being skeptical about Hollander's claims?   Maybe you'll save face by REALLY making this your last post this year.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on December 14, 2012, 06:01:37 PM
If I make a silly error let me know, I do not proof read and self editing is notorious for not seeing typo's.
:o You make ONLY silly errors.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2012, 06:53:00 PM
http://quentron.com/theory.html
Can anyone explain to me why any of this is actually useful to the discussion.

Yeah, tunneling.  The point is what is the THEORY that lets you violate 2LOT.  What's happening at the atomic level that lets this happen?  Instead all we see is "some magic fairy dust makes this happen" and then "it's been proved".

The actual important parts of the theory are NOWHERE.  Now the people here who suck at physics will probably respond with "You can't expect him to give you everything!" but those of us who don't would realize that he hasn't given up anything that isn't widely known.   The point of contention, to anyone with a brain would be the THINGS WHICH PHIL ASSERTS BUT THE REST OF SCIENCE DOESN'T ACKNOWLEDGE.   Talking about anything else is just jibber jabber.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that Phil has given us nothing other than an argument from authority.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 14, 2012, 07:35:47 PM
Save your outrage for something you're entitled to feel outraged about.

So he decides to post after all. So what? That signifies nothing, and nobody's putting a gun to your head to force you to read it.

The explanation he's engaging in on his own website says up front that it will be posted piece by piece, with an eye to making it accessible to the layman. That may not suit you, but that's just tough, isn't it?

And even if it leads to nothing, there's utility in dissecting what the error is, and where the slip in reasoning occurs specifically, rather than just short-circuiting the discussion. Paradoxes of all kinds that lead to false conclusions are discussed in this way and lead to better understanding.

So keep at it Phil.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2012, 08:33:00 PM
Save your outrage for something you're entitled to feel outraged about.
Yawn.  Sorry you weren't elected to the high-and-mighty council (although you do appear to think yourself high and mighty) of who gets to decide what people are allowed to get outraged about.
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So he decides to post after all. So what? That signifies nothing, and nobody's putting a gun to your head to force you to read it.
So many logical flaws so little time.  Of course it signifies something (at least that he wanted to post or do you deny that) try to be smarter ok?
Being forced or not forced to read it is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that this is supposed to be the "Theory of Quenco" not "The Theory of Electron Tunneling".  Dozens of words about tunneling which explain nothing.  Why bother calculating the number of electrons tunneled?  The value is utterly useless to actually explaining how the quenco does what it does.
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The explanation he's engaging in on his own website says up front that it will be posted piece by piece, with an eye to making it accessible to the layman. That may not suit you, but that's just tough, isn't it?
It's not a question of who it's accessible to but rather that it's fluff. 
Quote
And even if it leads to nothing, there's utility in dissecting what the error is, and where the slip in reasoning occurs specifically
You really don't understand do you?  The ability to circumvent the 2LOT is assumed in the web page.  How can we discuss the error in reasoning EXCEPT to point out that he hasn't discussed the actual point in contention.  Which I did.
Quote
So keep at it Phil.
...or post something useful.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 15, 2012, 12:22:57 AM
Yawn and shrug. HTH.

Anyway Phil, I'd be interested to know what behaviour you predicted for the valve-in-an-oven experiment, and what steps you took specifically to eliminate alternative explanations. Also, has anyone else that might be considered independent and suitably qualified had a crack at it and what were the results?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 15, 2012, 01:19:03 AM
I had a friend look over the Quenco theory page and he had the following comments:


"Available energy in such a thermodynamic system is given by the Gibbs free
energy (dG):

dG=dH-TdS

He has failed to take into account the change in entropy (dS) as an
electron tunnels across a barrier (dH), this puts pay to any
such system for generating energy this way from a system initially in
thermal equilibrium with its environment, ALWAYS, even in a quantum system.
The Maxwell's demon conundrum has been well studied over the past 150 years
and periodically people come up with ways to do it (just like perpetual
motion machines) and a proper accounting of the entropy change is generally what
has been overlooked."

For the record, I believe him.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 15, 2012, 02:38:02 AM
I had a friend look over the Quenco theory page and he had the following comments:


"Available energy in such a thermodynamic system is given by the Gibbs free
energy (dG):

dG=dH-TdS

He has failed to take into account the change in entropy (dS) as an
electron tunnels across a barrier (dH), this puts pay to any
such system for generating energy this way from a system initially in
thermal equilibrium with its environment, ALWAYS, even in a quantum system.
The Maxwell's demon conundrum has been well studied over the past 150 years
and periodically people come up with ways to do it (just like perpetual
motion machines) and a proper accounting of the entropy change is generally what
has been overlooked."

For the record, I believe him.

You are correct! Except for the work function of the metals used already cause the voltage imbalance.

At the same temperature one metal will lose more electrons and the only thing lost crossing the barrier is the heat or kinetic energy of the electron.

Think of a solar cell with the photon imparting energy to the electrons and pushing them through the barrier.

Now think of the new solar cells that work in the infrared region.

Now think of the even lower passive infrared detectors working at room temperature.

With two different work function metals, one will always be more emissive than the other at the same temperature so equally imparted kinetic energy will cause more electrons to tunnel a barrier from the more emissive surface until the voltage is raised to a potential where the electrons can tunnel back. This is the point of equilibrium, but at this point there is a potential difference between the two metals that will result in current flow depending on the number of accumulated electrons.

Of course I could be wrong, since this is only proven by existing Physics and not the new Physics of shitzforbrains.

This is not you Madebymonkeys, I believe you may actually be trying to find real value in this concept unlike some others.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2012, 03:27:47 AM
Of course I could be wrong, since this is only proven by existing Physics and not the new Physics of shitzforbrains.

This is not you Madebymonkeys, I believe you may actually be trying to find real value in this concept unlike some others.
Please stop whining.

I haven't made up any new physics.  I've simply stated that Phillip's theory page has essentially begged the question.  How can you not see that?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 15, 2012, 04:51:45 PM
Please stop whining.

I haven't made up any new physics.  I've simply stated that Phillip's theory page has essentially begged the question.  How can you not see that?

I have seen that! I have ask myself that same question. Is this possible and has anyone else done anything similar?

If you do some research on the net you will be surprised.

The process would be 100% efficient, as in time all available heat will eventually be converted to electron flow.
This is because two electrons with kinetic energy less than needed to tunnel the barrier, can interact and impart their combined energy into one electron now with enough energy to tunnel the barrier, but the process slows as the kinetic energy goes down.
If you use a thinner barrier, then the output voltage is also lower and the overall energy gained is less.
The kinetic energy (heat) provides for a logarithmic output dependent on the difference in the two metals work function and the barrier thickness.

I think Philip has a difficult road ahead so giving him more time is no problem for me. (I have nothing invested anyway)
However I do like to hear his progress updates once in a while so pissing him off so he does not post here is just stupid!


 


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on December 15, 2012, 05:16:35 PM
If you do some research on the net you will be surprised.

Feel free to show a link or the secret words to write into the search engine (I tried, without any success); I want to be surprised.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 15, 2012, 07:25:10 PM
Feel free to show a link or the secret words to write into the search engine (I tried, without any success); I want to be surprised.

Type 'power from tunnel diodes' or something like that.
Quenco sounds like the long tried tunnel diode experiment but with the bias provided by the dissimilar metals...maybe?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 15, 2012, 07:28:40 PM
Type 'power from tunnel diodes' or something like that.
Quenco sounds like the long tried tunnel diode experiment but with the bias provided by the dissimilar metals...maybe?

It may help to have Quenco expressed in pure mathematical form - something that would be easily exchangeable between mathematicians for verification and, potentially, helping PJH?
I know this ain't going to come from PJH so if anyone else has the skills then feel free :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2012, 04:30:12 AM
If you do some research on the net you will be surprised.
I don't understand this as an argument.  Philip, as far as I can see begs pretty much the entire question surrounding his device.  So your idea is to search the internet for similar devices.  Presumably ones that do explain their theory.  However such devices can't actually be breaking 2LOT in a very well-defined way - i.e. published in peer reviewed journals.  Which means they themselves might or might not work.

So what you're saying is that given something poorly defined in some respect (Quenco) which might or might not work and something else (X) which you think is somewhat better defined but also might or might not work.  We can then infer something about Quenco from X?

That really is hard to follow, assuming Quenco works there are four separate potential cases for each technology you examine (Not working & Similar, Working, & Not-similar, Not working and Not-Similar and Working and Similar) only one of which would be helpful.   Applying even priors I'm not so sure having a 25% of getting useful information is really that likely a good way to get a good result.

Speaking of begging the question...
Quote from: Phil
the impossibility of the Sebithenco or the Quenco as a Maxwellian Demon I think it is worth noting that the most persistent argument is that a demon would need to expend energy in sorting hot from cold, fast from slow. It is clearly not the case in either the Sebithenco or Quenco, the sorting is of energy by electrostatics where the sorted particles act only against static charge. So for those that wish to deal with this other than by evidence (replicated working Sebithenco's)
Oh it's "clearly not the case" good I was worried there.  I don't really understand why Phil thinks he gets to be exempt from the rules of information theory or physics.  To wit, if "electrostatics" really meant anything wrt to building a Maxwell's Demon then you could describe a simple case without all the fiddling around with 1880's technology.  In other words you could build an "electrostatic Demon" at least hypothetically. Phil should have *started* with this in he useless "theory" section.   Showing how things work at the atomic level, how his "electrostatic trapdoor" (or whatever) is exempt.   Otherwise the right assumption is that it has the same drawbacks of Feynman's machine or Smoluchowski's.

Quote from: Phil
Even arguments involving information theory propose that there is an energy cost in observation that is greater than the benefit of the particle energy partition.
This is a particularly interesting misunderstanding of Szilard’s thought experiment.  Actually it's the erasing of memory which creates the "missing" entropy.  Phil could assert that his demon has no memory, in which case it can not encode information in any state.  Which means it can not operate as a demon. No information means, no decision.

As an aside, there's a good reason for the humongous amount of fluff in Phil's theory page.  Most of the papers on potential 2LOT violations and their rectification are done as thought experiments because you can work on an extremely simplified form and in an environment with an unparalleled amount of control.  In real life you have nowhere near that level of control.  Which means you have a much higher probability of error.   If Phil were to try to create a hypothetical model on the level of Feynman's ratchet he would end up having to add "magic fairy dust" that is there would have to be some mechanism where the outputs are known and the operation can not be explained.

This is why he has to keep harping on some experiment he did.   It's the fairy dust.   If there was a way to explain it's operation on a fundamental level it would be far easier to explain than regurgitating all the stuff he did on his theory page.

The logic behind his challenge to replicate his experiment, to coin a phrase "sucks donkey balls".  It's a classic example of how various kinds of stupid gets into the collective consciousness.  Thousands of people could do it at various levels of competency.  Even if most got Phils answer...what would that say?  Nothing.  Running a thousand experiments under different conditions doesn't give you a highly accurate answer.   However this is one of those counter-intuitive things about science.  So instead of people shrugging their shoulders people think there's something to this.  Perhaps one person out of a thousand might do the experiment right in which case they get a negative result.  What do people do then? They assume that the negative case is the outlier.


Quote
I think Philip has a difficult road ahead so giving him more time is no problem for me. (I have nothing invested anyway)
That's not answering the question I keep asking.  What does waiting do to your confidence in Philip.   If the answer is "nothing" perhaps you need to think about that.   So again if in 2020 Philip is still saying February 2021...are you seriously telling me you would take him precisely as seriously as you would today?  After eight separate cases of "in February"?
Quote
However I do like to hear his progress updates once in a while so pissing him off so he does not post here is just stupid!
Phil is trying to produce a product...it is entirely in his self-interest to post here or on his website.  Not to mention why is your outcome the only one possible?  Perhaps if there is some actual group of people funding his efforts maybe they'll replace him and Quenco will become a reality much more quickly or updates will be realistic instead of inept.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 16, 2012, 06:43:25 PM

That's not answering the question I keep asking.  What does waiting do to your confidence in Philip.   If the answer is "nothing" perhaps you need to think about that.   So again if in 2020 Philip is still saying February 2021...are you seriously telling me you would take him precisely as seriously as you would today?  After eight separate cases of "in February"?Phil is trying to produce a product...it is entirely in his self-interest to post here or on his website.  Not to mention why is your outcome the only one possible?  Perhaps if there is some actual group of people funding his efforts maybe they'll replace him and Quenco will become a reality much more quickly or updates will be realistic instead of inept.

So you say you have giving up on Hot Fusion? What!, After only 50 years of trial.
That is totally absurd!, it is proven to work, we just need another 10 years or about that to get it to work and then only another 10 years to figure out how to contain it and then some good place to place the radioactive by-products afterwards.
Ok, you can keep beliving in that and I will wait a few more months to see if Philip and his team provide some results on something that possibly defies only a single statement by Lord Kelvin (who has been wrong before) that some work can be done from the flow of heat but not from an isothermal environment. So claimed in the 1800's before the advent of todays nano technology.

I do understand what you are saying, I have given up on Hot Fusion in that it's just an obsolete technology that is more than likely never to become fruitful in the next 50 years even with 100's of millions more soaked into it.

Everyone has a limit from their understanding of how something could or should work, which provides a cutoff of when they believe something should be operating.

Given what I believe to understand of how the Quenco should operate and being an engineer for 30 years, I would expect the Quenco development from theory to product to easily exceed a year.

If you do not have any concept of how Quenco could operate or what may be required to construct the device and the issues that crop up, then I agree that one of little knowledge would dispair easily and give up after a few statements of one showing their optimisim, that did not work out well.

 I would actually perfer Philip informing us of his progress and also of the cause of failures if known. This is not a demand of Philip since I have no right to demand anything of him.
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lancaIV on December 16, 2012, 08:26:32 PM
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=WO&NR=2009060435A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20090514&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

output > input : does he have a functional model ?

Sincerely
                 CdL

 

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 16, 2012, 09:18:34 PM
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=WO&NR=2009060435A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20090514&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

output > input : does he have a functional model ?

Sincerely
                 CdL

Unlikely, given the posts so far. Although it is 100% proven?

I think a temp gradient IS required - cant see any other way it can work.
If a temp gradient is indeed required (which I believe) then there isn't anything new here.

Just speculation based on what I have heard from others (not on the forum).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 17, 2012, 03:47:28 PM
Hope some of you will find these urls interesting.

Maxwell's demon goes quantum, can do work, write and erase data.


http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/07/maxwells-demon-goes-quantum-can-do-work-write-and-erase-data/  (http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/07/maxwells-demon-goes-quantum-can-do-work-write-and-erase-data/)

Maxwell's Pressure Demon and the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

 http://www.execonn.com/maxwell/maxwells_demon.html  (http://www.execonn.com/maxwell/maxwells_demon.html)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 03:56:15 PM
So you say you have giving up on Hot Fusion?
So let's first define some terms:

Hot fusion is a somewhat vague collection of technologies.
Tokamak is a particular containment technology designed for a hot fusion reaction.
ITER is a project to investigate a number of technologies concerning hot fusion inside a Toamak reactor.  Not the least of which is implementing a 500MW reactor.
Osamu Motojima is the Director General of the ITER project.

Each one of those is logically independent in one direction.  I can give up on Osamu Motojima as capable of delivering ITER without giving up on ITER as being deliverable.  I can give up on ITER as being deliverable without giving up on Tokamak as being a feasible technology to implement and of course I can give up on Tokamak as a feasible design without giving up on hot fusion in general.

Quenco is constently missing it's self-set deadlines, including it's self-set international product launch.  Now that has to be caused by something.  If your mind can't possibly believe that it's 2LOT, "electrostatic Maxwell's Demon" or Quenco.   Then the problem must be Philip.  Put another way, if still think it's reasonable that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics has been broken, that electrostatics can create a functional Maxwell's Demon and that Quenco implements all these...then you have to believe that Philip sucks as a manager.
Speaking of the so-called product launch.  This was supposed to be an event that people could attend.  What happened to those people?  Did nobody want to see the incredible Quenco? If they did Philip either informed them well ahead of time in which case he's been fibbing to everyone else or they had to cancel their flights to his little shindig.

Quote
it is proven to work
Again the term "work" means different things depending on which one of those terms you are using.

Hot fusion works in the sense that the theory is sound and experimentally validated.
Tokamak works if it can be scaled to useful power generation levels.
ITER works when it delivers the goals set by them.  Including creating a test reactor by 2020.
Osamu Motojima "works" when he delivers the things he set out to do.
Quote
we just need another 10 years or about that to get it to work

What ITER will produce, if they keep to their schedule is a 500MW plant in 8 years sitting in the south of france.  It will give us an idea of how much it costs to replicate this technology.  That doesn't mean that funding should continue.  Hot fusion is an immensely expensive project which was planned not to be realized until 2020.   In 2020 we may decide that it is simply not worth it.
Quote
I will wait a few more months to see if Philip and his team provide some results on something

...and you keep avoiding and avoiding and avoiding the question.  Which is "When he fails in February then what?" is your confidence for him to deliver in June 2013 just as strong as it is now that he will deliver in Feb 2013?  Please answer the question instead of droning on about irrelevant things.
Quote
Given what I believe to understand of how the Quenco should operate and being an engineer for 30 years, I would expect the Quenco development from theory to product to easily exceed a year.
So you agree that Philip who constantly says "next week" or "next month" is either incompetent or lying? (if he knows better he isn't saying and if he doesn't he shouldn't be saying)
Quote
If you do not have any concept of how Quenco could operate or what may be required to construct the device and the issues that crop up, then I agree that one of little knowledge would dispair easily and give up after a few statements of one showing their optimisim, that did not work out well.
LOL. So when someone has the expectation that Quenco should have been delivered last Feb or last Dec.   They are doing so because "they don't have any concept of how Quenco could operate or what maybe requried to construct the device".

Good.  So far the only person who's saying that is Philip J. Hardcastle....and that folks is what we call Q.E.D.
Quote
This is not a demand of Philip since I have no right to demand anything of him.
Not even honesty? You think it's okay for him to lie to people here? How about competency?  If someone knows they can't do a job shouldn't they step down?  What about someone who can't do a job (such as manage timelines) shouldn't they get someone else to do it?  If you can't manage timelines and you know it but you keep making earnest statements about how there is zero doubt that you won't deliver on day X?  Isn't that being dishonest?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Hope some of you will find these urls interesting.

Maxwell's demon goes quantum, can do work, write and erase data.

but not violate 2LOT...you are only making the world dumber.

So where's the answer to my question there anyway...what happens to your confidence in Philip when he fails in February?  If nothing.  what happens when he fails in June 2013?  Again if nothing what about 2020?  If nothing then don't you see an obvious source of incredible stupidity in yourself by never allowing information to affect your assertions?

Is this weird "circle the wagons" mentality just the way everyone behaves here?  If this thread were a room...it would be all elephant!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 17, 2012, 05:01:29 PM
Not even honesty? You think it's okay for him to lie to people here? How about competency?  If someone knows they can't do a job shouldn't they step down?  What about someone who can't do a job (such as manage timelines) shouldn't they get someone else to do it?  If you can't manage timelines and you know it but you keep making earnest statements about how there is zero doubt that you won't deliver on day X?  Isn't that being dishonest?


Even you know that you're only a liar if you know it isn't true.


If someone continues to make statements about timelines and they miss those timelines, the responsibility falls on whoever has an expectation that the timeline will be met to adjust their expectation accordingly. That adjustment is your responsibility, not his.


But let's baldly accept that PJH is a poor manager and / or poor at estimating contingency?. And? How thrilled should I be at the prospect of a competent manager. My blood fair sings with the thrill.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: TinselKoala on December 17, 2012, 06:14:53 PM

Even you know that you're only a liar if you know it isn't true.


If someone continues to make statements about timelines and they miss those timelines, the responsibility falls on whoever has an expectation that the timeline will be met to adjust their expectation accordingly. That adjustment is your responsibility, not his.


But let's baldly accept that PJH is a poor manager and / or poor at estimating contingency?. And? How thrilled should I be at the prospect of a competent manager. My blood fair sings with the thrill.

Contrariwise. If someone speaks from a position of claimed knowledge, but in fact does not possess that knowledge, then they lie. When a preacher stands in a pulpit and says that you will have life everlasting if you only have faith in Jesus.... he lies, even though he might think he speaks the truth, because he does not have the knowledge that he claims to have.... only a strong belief. Had he said "I _believe_ that you will have life everlasting blah blah..." Then he might be speaking the truth.
PJH is telling us he knows things, when he only believes them. The fact that he might not be able to distinguish between his knowledge and his beliefs only means that he might not be completely aware that he is telling porkies.... it does not alter the veracity -- or lack of it---- of his claims.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 17, 2012, 06:42:34 PM
If your preacher believes it is the truth, he doesn't lie. I don't have to accept that what he tells me is true (and don't) but that alone wouldn't alter my opinion of how honest he is.


PJH claims to have performed an experiment several times that supports his contention. He also believes that he's been sufficiently careful in his experiment to rule out other explanations for measurements he claims to get. And he claims that the experiment that would settle it once and for all has been subject to several delays for other practical reasons. I'm perfectly happy to believe all of those claims. YMMV.


As far as his proposed experiment is concerned, it's fine to claim "there must be a mistake, here are some of the possibilities" Would it be a lie to say you were absolutely certain it was one of your suggestions without performing the experiment?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
Even you know that you're only a liar if you know it isn't true.
You should read what I post.  I've said that makes Philip incompetent at the task of management of timelines and perhaps management of this project in general.
Quote
If someone continues to make statements about timelines and they miss those timelines, the responsibility falls on whoever has an expectation that the timeline will be met to adjust their expectation accordingly. That adjustment is your responsibility, not his.
...and that's what I've actually said if you actually read what I wrote - Try it sometime!  That's the question nobody will answer.  What happens to YOUR confidence in Philip's next deadline should he miss February. Does it stay the same or does it go down?  So far no answer from the peanut gallery - lots of attempts to avoid answering the question.   The fact is, just about every doofus in this thread has trivialized waiting a few months.  It's kind of obvious that constitutes an expectation of some kind.  Hence each one of those people must, by YOUR standards have an adjusted confidence value concerning his next timeline.  Now if everyone wants to clam up and not talk about it that's their prerogative.  However it is a pretty humongous Elephant-in-the-room.
Quote
But let's baldly accept that PJH is a poor manager and / or poor at estimating contingency?. And? How thrilled should I be at the prospect of a competent manager. My blood fair sings with the thrill.
Yawn.  Even if you attempt to exempt yourself from any non-trivial expectations regarding Quenco it's clear that people here DO have expectations.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 17, 2012, 07:23:59 PM
As a member of the so called peanut gallery my observation is that there is an elephant in the room, it is the ego of sarkeizen. He posts here with the deliberate intent of offending, we have all seen this sort of person before who craves attention in order to feel important, they do not reveal any truths except that they are a very sick and counter productive person. In ordinary life we call them bullies or psychopaths.

forums should be about respectful dialogue
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 17, 2012, 07:39:29 PM
Is there a moderator for this board, or almost ANY board?  We should change the name of our forum perhaps to "Overpester.com".
 
If you too are getting sick and tired of the badgering, and pestering of and by the trolls, both former and recent ones, please comment until we can get some moderation back on this forum, please, for the love of God.
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 08:23:47 PM
Quote from: Philip
Even arguments involving information theory propose that there is an energy cost in observation that is greater than the benefit of the particle energy partition, though it is oft expressed as an increase in entropy caused by lost information, incredulously one widely accepted argument is that the Demon runs out of paper upon which to write down observations and so must reuse the paper for new entries, I must say it is from such tripe and silly arguments that I always felt there was a reason and justification to doubt Lord Kelvin and search for a viable Demon, so here I am.............. and it only took me 34 years.
LOL.  Philip is very concerned about what I say but tries not to appear so.

Yet again, Phillip begs the question.  Running out of paper is talking about storage.  If you decide something you must be deciding it FROM some piece of information.   Running out of "paper" or however you're storing something means that you eventually have to reuse your storage.

I also think he's kind of lying a bit.  Last post he seemed to have no knowledge at all of how the arguments from information theory work.  Now these have somehow informed his belief from day one.







Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 08:29:19 PM
And he claims that the experiment that would settle it once and for all has been subject to several delays for other practical reasons. I'm perfectly happy to believe all of those claims. YMMV.
In other words you have an expectation.  A probability that in February that Philip's prediction is correct  P(Feb2013) = ? (probably .99999 for you) ;-)

Again, and again, and again, and again.  What happens to that value when you are now looking at P(June2013)? or P(Dec2013) or P(Dec2020)?  Presumably it goes down.  Right?

Why does everyone here squirm at this question?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 17, 2012, 08:57:38 PM
Is there a moderator for this board, or almost ANY board?  We should change the name of our forum perhaps to "Overpester.com".
 
If you too are getting sick and tired of the badgering, and pestering of and by the trolls, both former and recent ones, please comment until we can get some moderation back on this forum, please, for the love of God.

LOL - good one Bruce.    I'm not sure why this forum has such a low level of moderation - less than any where I've been in 25 + years on the Internet.   We can hope it will change but I don't expect it to happen any time soon. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Liberty on December 17, 2012, 09:31:47 PM
Contrariwise. If someone speaks from a position of claimed knowledge, but in fact does not possess that knowledge, then they lie. When a preacher stands in a pulpit and says that you will have life everlasting if you only have faith in Jesus.... he lies, even though he might think he speaks the truth, because he does not have the knowledge that he claims to have.... only a strong belief. Had he said "I _believe_ that you will have life everlasting blah blah..." Then he might be speaking the truth.
PJH is telling us he knows things, when he only believes them. The fact that he might not be able to distinguish between his knowledge and his beliefs only means that he might not be completely aware that he is telling porkies.... it does not alter the veracity -- or lack of it---- of his claims.
I don't think that you improved your credibility with an attack on what God has said, or his "preachers" that teach what God has said, using a statement like this.  God gives every man the measure of faith.  It is up to you to take the initiative to learn about faith in God and use it correctly in your life.  It is found in His book, it is His Word.  It is like a person that talks bad about physics, knowing something about it, but won't believe it, because they won't read the book or listen to the teacher  and be willing to learn from the source.  Your statement is beneath the standards that you strive to attain to, and does not improve or support your point of view.  Your analogy is counter productive.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 17, 2012, 09:49:47 PM
In other words you have an expectation.  A probability that in February that Philip's prediction is correct  P(Feb2013) = ? (probably .99999 for you) ;-)

Again, and again, and again, and again.  What happens to that value when you are now looking at P(June2013)? or P(Dec2013) or P(Dec2020)?  Presumably it goes down.  Right?

Why does everyone here squirm at this question?


The squirming is in your imagination, and the insistence that a probability should be assigned in this way is your fetish.

As it stands your question is impossible to answer (for me) because you aren't defining it with enough precision.

Prediction of what event?

a) Prediction of PJH manufacturing the nanofilm he claims he needs to demonstrate that his theory is correct, to his specification ?

b) Prediction that the nanonfilm will demonstrate the effect

c) Prediction that the target will change from the nanofilm to something else?

d) Prediction that he'll accept he was mistaken if it doesn't work?

e) Something else?


I wouldn't assign a numeric probability to any of them. I suppose I could put an arbitrary description against them. Or the direction I'd revise one or more of them in depending on what happens when Feb 2013 rolls round,. Or what direction they've already travelled in, or if more information or change of plan comes to light before that.


But why would I bother? What would it achieve?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 10:10:59 PM
and the insistence that a probability should be assigned in this way is your fetish.
Not really.  In fact if you read what I wrote you'd see that I'm not insisting that you quantify to some particular degree of precision.
Quote
I wouldn't assign a numeric probability to any of them.
This is more of an aside but...

Clearly you, at this time consider the probability that Philip will deliver in Feb to be > 0.  So P(Feb2003) > 0.  Just in case you didn't know zero is a number.  Not only that but in other news there are quite a few numbers.  So even if you want to go on with the drama of "therz cant bee a numb3r to eXpress my <whatever>" there is and you know it (that is you know that it must exist).  The only question is how precisely such a value can be determined.
Quote
But why would I bother? What would it achieve?
Ability to have a consistent and rational basis for your decisions.  Perhaps that's not of value to you?

Anyway your silliness aside. In case you weren't reading the point wasn't, as I said above to quantify to some particular degree of precision.  The point was that you must have an expectation for February which means, by your prior statements you should be able to talk about what will happen to your confidence should Phillip fail in February.   Anytime you want to answer the question asked days ago let me know. :)  After all your reluctance can't possibly you squirming.  Right?
Quote
As it stands your question is impossible to answer (for me) because you aren't defining it with enough precision.
Probably not true.
Quote
Prediction of what event?
The probability that Philips next date will be met with the outcomes he specifies.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 17, 2012, 10:30:11 PM
So much typing for so little effect.

I'm familiar with numbers and the notion of probability. You say I assign P(Feb2003) > 0 - how do you come to this conclusion, particularly given that I've offered several ways I interpret "deliver" ? I consider P > 0 to be sufficient for any decision I choose to make on this subject.

For more important decisions - those where I have some control over the eventual outcome - I might be inclined to quantify the various probabilities a bit more carefully.

But in this case, I don't need to, so I haven't.

I am still unable to answer your question, because you aren't being precise enough. It depends.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2012, 11:53:26 PM
I'm familiar with numbers and the notion of probability.
Not enough to know that there exists a probability to express your confidence.
Quote
You say I assign P(Feb2003) > 0 - how do you come to this conclusion, particularly given that I've offered several ways I interpret "deliver" ?
Watching you is like watching a high-school debater try to weasel out of a poor argument.   Firstly you're kind of lying.  What you asked for was an event.  Philip producing what he said he would produce by the end of February is an event.
Quote
For more important decisions - those where I have some control over the eventual outcome - I might be inclined to quantify the various probabilities a bit more carefully.
So only events where you have some control over the outcome are worth quantifying?  That's refreshingly naive - reminds me of every bad manager I've met . On the other hand perhaps you're claiming that something you spend your time on is out of your control? or maybe that you time isn't worth very much?
Quote
I am still unable to answer your question, because you aren't being precise enough. It depends.
It's not really so hard.  Philip has claimed that some set of outcomes will be realized by February 2013.  Perhaps you think this is the empty set if so you should say so. If you don't think it's the empty set then you should be able to say if you think the P of all outcomes being realized is > 0.  If you really think what he has said would be realized is so vague and undefinable.  Then why not post here and ask him to be clearer...seemingly he checks here so often I expect to see his breath on the glass.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 18, 2012, 12:14:59 AM
"Not enough to know that there exists a [/size]probability[/size] to express your confidence."

Enough to know that the sort of false precision you seem to seek is pointless from any angle.

"Philip producing what he said he would produce by the end of February is an event."

Explain exactly how you interpret that remark. Be precise.

"So only events where you have some control over the outcome are worth quantifying?."

Lazy strawman. I don't claim that as an exhaustive lists of things I consider worth spending effort to quantify.

"Philip has claimed that some set of outcomes will be realized by February 2013"

By my interpretation, there are several outcomes, some that I've listed, each of which I'd consider differently.

If there's some big decision you need to make, based on the outcome yourself, you should ask. I have no big decision to make on the matter, my opinion won't change events, and there's no penalty for me if I misjudge.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2012, 01:22:43 AM
Enough to know that the sort of false precision you seem to seek is pointless from any angle.
Utterly wrong.  Congratulations!  If there's an event there's a probability.  If there's a probability there's a level of precision it can be known to.  If you can't specify any level of precision that's practically equivalent to not knowing what you're talking about wrt probability anyway.  The point is being able to state if that probability changes if in Feb 2013 Philip doesn't deliver - if it goes up or down and if so perhaps some idea as to how much.  Now of course such a statement would be ceteris paribus and if Philip fails then he will probably offer some reason.  Now you may decide then that your P(June2013) or whatever is different than what you give today in fact because P(June2013) is according to Philip "Just around the corner, for sure with even less doubt than ever before" and in your wise and considered opinion you might decide that means your new P(June2013) == P(Feb2013).  In which case, we now know something about how much that information is worth to you probabilistic speaking.

It may surprise someone with your level of knowledge of probability - sufficient to say that such analysis is pointless. There are whole textbooks written by pretty respected mathematicians on analyzing decisions and making decisions using personal probability estimates but perhaps you simply know better than those people.
Quote
Explain exactly how you interpret that remark. Be precise.
Please specify where you need further precision.  Be precise for a change.
Quote
By my interpretation, there are several outcomes, some that I've listed, each of which I'd consider differently.
Wow too bad nobody has ever figured out a way to calculate the probability of more than one event happening at the same time.  If you mean a set of outcomes that you interpret Philip has stated would happen by the end of February.  Then there exists some probability of the set being delivered.
Quote
Lazy strawman. I don't claim that as an exhaustive lists of things I consider worth spending effort to quantify.
Actually if you read carefully I didn't say you did...I gave a few statements which covers all the bases.  Anyway you're kind of missing the point.  You appear to be saying that something where the outcome is beyond your control then there's no need to quantify.  As irrelevant as that is, I find the attitude kind of interesting.
Quote
I have no big decision to make on the matter, my opinion won't change events, and there's no penalty for me if I misjudge.
Always trying to avoid the question.  Finally you at least appear to agree that there exists a series of outcomes which you interpret Philip says will arrive by the end of February 2013...that only took like four posts to reach a rather obvious interpretation.   If you believe that one of them is zero then say so.  Philip will not deliver what he said in Feb 2013.  Man you could have made that easier.  If you believe that all are > 0 then.  I'd like to know if you give me some idea as to how much and if the world-saddening event occurs in Feb 2013 (Philip does not deliver all these things) what that does to your belief about P(June2013).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: mrsean2k on December 18, 2012, 01:42:48 AM
You're the only one with a hard-on for quantifying the probability of events related to PJHs claims in this way (or rather as a hook to troll)

The fact that such analysis is possible has no bearing on the utility of me performing it; my gut feeling is plenty good enough given the level of risk to me (zero).

The effort to be any more precise would be wasted effort for me in this set of circumstances. Your desire for me to give you an answer doesn't change that.

Unfortunately your tiresome attitude means I won't be sharing my opinion with you - if you'd been more straightforward and honest in your approach, maybe I would have done.

Something for you to think about in future.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2012, 02:15:07 AM
You're the only one with a hard-on for quantifying the probability of events related to PJHs claims in this way (or rather as a hook to troll)
I'm interested if people can tell me if they think the probability of him delivering on his claims concerning P(Feb2013) changes in one direction or another based on the outcome. The one who actually wanted to discuss - that is focused in on - quantification was..well...YOU.  Essentially you took an example I gave *using* a classically quantified probability as an illustration.  From there you started talking about everything but a rather obvious central point I have been making for days.  My responses to you was just me being polite.  In fact in several places I mention clear enough that one would think a mrsean2k would understand that some particular degree of precision was not necessary (also the obvious consequence that claiming that no degree of precision is probably equivalent to saying you don't know what you're talking about).

But I guess you like to blame others.
Quote
The fact that such analysis is possible has no bearing on the utility of me performing it; my gut feeling is plenty good enough given the level of risk to me (zero).
Risk is often looked at as a product of probability and impact.  It seems a little ingenuous to claim that you have nothing invested. I mean you do spend time here.  You seem to have read Philips posts enough to come up with a probability > 0 that he's going to deliver something useful in February - you can play denial games with this if you like.  So your risk, if you're being honest is probably at least a little above zero.

Also you claimed that quantification was pointless.  Now that argument has been killed all you have left is a "I don't wanna".  It's worth noting that nobody said you had to.
Quote
The effort to be any more precise would be wasted effort for me in this set of circumstances.
If you're talking about being more precise to me then please confine yourself to making statements you can know.  You said a statement of mine was not precise enough, presumably you know where the imprecision lies.  If not, I'd guess this was yet another dishonest dodge.
Quote
Unfortunately your tiresome attitude means I won't be sharing my opinion with you - if you'd been more straightforward and honest in your approach, maybe I would have done.
What about the fort you're building in your backyard?  I won't be invited there either I guess.  What about the super-secret club handshake?  *sigh*  Woe is me.

Seriously?!  Are you fifteen?

Nobody said you had to answer.  I was actually at a mrsean2k level of clarity on this point.  I have no expectation of you answering. I do find it interesting that an incredibly straightforward process, a kind that not only most people do every single day in one way or another but everyone here who has some kind of expectation for Philip on February 2013 has already done in some respect.   Can't be done by anyone here when we change one assumption. Similarly the incredible amount of twisting and turning people e.g. YOU go through to avoid answering is interesting too.

Yes feel free to blame me.  I mean you've been pushing hard for an excuse not to answer ever since I got you trapped on the subject.   This should make you all feel off the hook now.  Bruce can chime in with one of his backpatting posts ("Good one Mrsean2k.  I've felt that in addition to more moderation what this board needs is a rule that says no question needs to be honoured unless the asker pays proper respect to Phil...and me...and we get to define 'proper'") .  If all y'all needed was an excuse there are easier ways.

Also you're kind of lying again.  I've been completely straightforward and honest.  You on the other hand had tried to pull a few fast ones in this discussion.
Quote
Something for you to think about in future.
That's you're silly and condescending?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 18, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
I'm interested if people can tell me if they think the probability of him delivering on his claims concerning P(Feb2013) changes in one direction or another based on the outcome. You were actually the one who wanted to discuss - that is focused in on - an example I gave *using* a classically quantified probability as an illustration.  From there you started looking at everything but this central point.  I was just being polite by responding.  In fact in several places I mention clear enough that one would think a mrsean2k would understand that some particular degree of precision was not necessary but claiming that no degree of precision is probably equivalent to saying you don't know what you're talking about.

But I guess you like to blame others.Risk is often looked at as a product of probability and impact.  It seems a little ingenuous to claim that you have nothing invested. I mean you do spend time here.  You seem to have read Philips posts enough to come up with a probability > 0 that he's going to deliver something useful in February - you can play denial games with this if you like.  So your risk, if you're being honest is probably at least a little above zero.

Also you claimed that quantification was pointless.  Now that argument has been killed all you have left is a "I don't wanna".  Nobody said you had to.If you're talking about being more precise to me then please confine yourself to making statements you can know.  You said a statement was not precise enough, presumably you know where the imprecision lies.  If not, I'd guess this was yet another dishonest dodge.What about the fort you're building in your backyard?  I won't be invited there either I guess.  What about the super-secret club handshake?  *sigh*  Woe is me.

Seriously?!  Are you fifteen?

Nobody said you had to answer.  I was actually at a mrsean2k level of clarity on this point.  I have no expectation of you answering. I do find it interesting that an incredibly simple process, a kind that not only most people do every single day in one way or another but everyone here who has some kind of expectation for Philip on February 2013 has done in some respect.   Can't be done by anyone here when we change one assumption likewise the incredible amount of twisting and turning people e.g. YOU go through to avoid answering is interesting too.

Yes feel free to blame me.  I mean you've been pushing hard for an excuse not to answer ever since I got you trapped on the subject.   This should make you all feel off the hook now.  Bruce can chime in with one of his backpatting posts ("Good one Mrsean2k.  I've felt that in addition to more moderation what this board needs is a rule that says no question needs to be honoured unless the asker pays proper respect to Phil...and me...and we get to define 'proper'") .  If all y'all needed was an excuse there are easier ways.

Also you're kind of lying again.  I've been completely straightforward and honest.  You on the other hand had tried to pull a few fast ones in this discussion.That's you're silly and condescending?
A NEW record~ !  27 Posts to say absolutely NOTHING of consequence!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: ramset on December 18, 2012, 02:59:55 AM
HHMMMmmm
Definately Looped it,probably 10 ways to hades......
I had no idea you could beat a horse for that long.
  some guys have to talk to the wife, watch jeopardy reruns or hide on the putor.
 
Personally I think he should go knit or build something.
 
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2012, 03:25:40 AM
A NEW record~ !  27 Posts to say absolutely NOTHING of consequence!
I find it a bit ironic that someone who's last few posts are primarily back-patting and pleas for moderation would balk at the idea that knowing something about the probabilities people assign to Philip's potential failure in February 2013 is useful.  As I said before what I'm talking about isn't exactly without precedent among mathematicians.

@ramset - I just don't watch that much TV.  On average someone in the US watches about 2.5 hours a day.   That's more than enough time to spank poor arguments from people who should know better (and criticize the occasional cheerleader like Bruce).   I think I put in a full day of work today - despite having a cold, commuted home, read to my kids and tucked them in.   Worked a bit on the NYT saturday crossword too.

Quote from: Bruce_TPU
NOW THAT WAS...
Ever get the feeling you're trying way too hard?

Quote from: tagor
yes I am getting sick and tired of the badgering !
You and me both sister.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 18, 2012, 03:40:03 AM
HHMMMmmm
Definately Looped it,probably 10 ways to hades......
I had no idea you could beat a horse for that long.
  some guys have to talk to the wife, watch jeopardy reruns or hide on the putor.
 
Personally I think he should go knit or build something.

Now THAT was funny! 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: tagor on December 18, 2012, 07:25:41 AM
Is there a moderator for this board, or almost ANY board?  We should change the name of our forum perhaps to "Overpester.com".
 
If you too are getting sick and tired of the badgering, and pestering of and by the trolls, both former and recent ones, please comment until we can get some moderation back on this forum, please, for the love of God.

yes I am getting sick and tired of the badgering !
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 18, 2012, 07:15:28 PM
I type fast! So I can buy more crack! So I can type fast....To buy more crack.....To type faster...........
Anyone know this guy?
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2012, 08:41:36 PM
I type fast! So I can buy more crack! So I can type fast....To buy more crack.....To type faster...........
Anyone know this guy?
...and lumen gives a good example of badgering.  Considering how much time is spent by Bruce_TPU, lumen and mrsean2k in their own badgering and other forms of aggressive behavior.  Don't you think your pleas for moderation exceed some kind of irony limit?

On the other hand lumen didn't explicitly *say* s/he was against badgering so maybe s/he's for it.

Quote from: What would Bruce_TPU say?
Now THAT was funny!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 19, 2012, 09:30:54 PM
...and lumen gives a good example of badgering.  Considering how much time is spent by Bruce_TPU, lumen and mrsean2k in their own badgering and other forms of aggressive behavior.  Don't you think your pleas for moderation exceed some kind of irony limit?

On the other hand lumen didn't explicitly *say* s/he was against badgering so maybe s/he's for it.

How about we keep the topic on the subject of why this wont work (or even, why it will).
Lots of talk right now about it working and 'believe in PJH' but no sane reason why it will work! Lots of reasons why it won't.

How about a debate?!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 22, 2012, 06:57:52 AM
OK, You take the side of YES Quenco is True, and I will debate that it is FALSE
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on December 22, 2012, 07:07:12 AM
don't make me go there.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 22, 2012, 07:09:21 AM
OK, You take the side of YES Quenco is True, and I will debate that it is FALSE

Actually, I wanted false...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 22, 2012, 07:24:30 AM
So you did not actually want a debate, you just wanted to tell everyone that you do not think Phil is right and that you know better.

Go ahead and tell us in detail where he is wrong and what you know to be the correct position (without reference to the historical position on the matter). I see he has posted quite a bit on his theory page that you must be very keen to correct, though why you are waiting for a debate on the matter to do that is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 22, 2012, 07:30:19 AM
If you make sense I will reply in the contrary position, if I can.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 22, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
So you did not actually want a debate, you just wanted to tell everyone that you do not think Phil is right and that you know better.

Not at all, all I have been asking for since I joined is some answers to some basic questions and some proof that his claims are true. Asking questions and asking for proof appears to get people on the defensive (you included by the looks of it).....and gets the questions asker branded a troll!

I haven't made the claims that Quenco works 100%, is totally proven, will change the world etc - PJH has. It's down to him to provide some proof of his claims if he wants to retain credibility.

This is scheduled to happen in Feb 2013 (this time) - PJH has managed my expectations such that I don't believe this will happen.

Can you explain, unambiguously, why it will or won't work?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 22, 2012, 09:06:29 AM
How about we keep the topic on the subject of why this wont work (or even, why it will).
Lots of talk right now about it working and 'believe in PJH' but no sane reason why it will work! Lots of reasons why it won't.

How about a debate?!

You asked for a debate on science, I thought, but apparently you want to hold the debate about why PJH should be believed if he fails to meet your imposed deadline.

You have the floor to post here why his device will not work, so go ahead. Arguments that it will not work because he did not meet a timetable are just stupid and look like trolling. You asked for a debate on the subject, shame you do not do what you asked for.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 22, 2012, 09:17:43 AM
You asked for a debate on science, I thought, but apparently you want to hold the debate about why PJH should be believed if he fails to meet your imposed deadline.

I offered a debate as a suggestion to the forum. As I have posted, I'm no expert on science. You start us off.

I don't believe PJH but that's based on historical reasons. The debate would be about quenco. Not sure how you assumed I meant something different.

Quote
You have the floor to post here why his device will not work, so go ahead. Arguments that it will not work because he did not meet a timetable are just stupid and look like trolling. You asked for a debate on the subject, shame you do not do what you asked for.

It's an idea offered to the forum as I said - I ain't the expert and don't know (which any scientific accuracy) whether it will work or not.

Debating a timetable or deadline is stupid - that's not what I am doing, read the post.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 23, 2012, 06:31:40 AM
...why PJH should be believed if he fails to meet your imposed deadline.
The deadlines being discussed are not MBM's or mine they are set by Philip, the outcomes are set by Philip.  Out of curiosity how is it that you don't recognize that?  Illiteracy?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 23, 2012, 07:26:57 PM
I offered a debate as a suggestion to the forum. As I have posted, I'm no expert on science. You start us off.

I don't believe PJH but that's based on historical reasons. The debate would be about quenco. Not sure how you assumed I meant something different.

It's an idea offered to the forum as I said - I ain't the expert and don't know (which any scientific accuracy) whether it will work or not.

Debating a timetable or deadline is stupid - that's not what I am doing, read the post.

MBM I thought you wanted to debate the issue, but you say you cannot so I understand why you might want the forum to do so.

If there are ppl here that wish to debate I am all for that but it is pointless to simply take a position in science based upon expectations, science is science and let's stick to facts if we are going to have a meaningful debate.

I see from the lots of stupid irritating posts that this forum is currently infested with a low life who you all rightfully ignore, I too will ignore that persons childish attempts to gain attention except to note such in this post.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Mr Logic on December 24, 2012, 12:42:37 AM
I only joined here to add to this post initially, and am certainly not one of those trolls or shills some of you imagine are around here. In fact they all ask perfectly reasonable questions, the ones essential in any claim and scientific enquiry, and without them how would we learn anything?

I have been investigating this sort of thing and related areas for over 20 years, and for the last 11 been helping out Nick Pope with his ufo work, and have plenty of references if people want to question it. The only advice I can offer Paul is with his marketing. Until now the patterns have been identical, and unfortunately I see no difference here having read half the material (there are only so many hours in a day) enough to catch on the main scenario from every one before. The rules for marketing free energy and similar is totally different from normal, as if you want to make a better car or washing machine you can easily know so years in advance, and roll out a programme of marketing as soon as you wish.

But with free energy, to be frank, it does not exist. The reason this forum exists is because until aliens and free energy did exist we would just discuss them, once they did the discussions would be unnecessary. The golden rule for free energy producers is to wait till the stuff us finished and then make their announcements. That's it. Tough on the patience and enthusiasm for them as we all like to share our activities when special, and also assume like other products you won't sell without publicity. But this is different, as what are they selling? Not a variation on an old product, or a new product using old methods, but something which doesn't exist. Of course if it does exist they would show us. Have they? No. Will they? How do I know. But as long as anyone spends a single sentence announcing a product in this area which they (not us, we only know what they tell us) know is not ready the cause will get nowhere.

So it's now February. If Mr Hardcastle delivers we all know (as we wouldn't be here if we didn't) it will be a precedent. Steorn do now have a heater on sale so maybe that is a missed opportunity to investigate, but the dribble of information they have provided and flowing from it isn't sufficient to know a thing, but as for the real thing for certain this is not just equivalent to winning James Randi's million dollar prize but finding the holy grail. But I've (or you've) never seen a single one of these dates materialise. Of course we haven't, or we wouldn't be here. Will this break the mould? We only have the past record to go on, so my question would be what's difference about this date compared to previous? There are still a couple of months to go, and if delayed further then I for one will have lost interest.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2012, 02:36:15 AM
but it is pointless to simply take a position in science based upon expectations
That's barely even English.  Interesting position.  According to you, Philip could say "yes, I will have this tomorrow with zero doubt" every day and fail every day for dozens of years and that would say nothing about his technology.  So you don't think all information which is confirming to a result has to contribute to the probability of said result?  Such beliefs make Baby Bayes cry.  I'd love to engage on this issue but it seems like most people here aren't exactly equipped.
Quote
science is science and let's stick to facts if we are going to have a meaningful debate.
You know a few points have been raised concerning information theory...you seem pretty mute about them.
Quote
I see from the lots of stupid irritating posts that this forum is currently infested with a low life who you all rightfully ignore, I too will ignore that persons childish attempts to gain attention except to note such in this post.
After post after post from lumen, Bruce_TPU and mrsean2k isn't it a little crazy to pretend they were ignoring me?  What makes you think this is about gaining attention?  I mean Bruce_TPU produced some of the most insubstantial posts in the last 100 on this thread and somehow you think I'm just about trying to get attention?  I mean just look at what he posted below...
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 24, 2012, 03:07:21 AM
That's barely even English.  Interesting position.  According to you, Philip could say "yes, I will have this tomorrow with zero doubt" every day and fail every day for dozens of years and that would say nothing about his technology.  So you don't think all information which is confirming to a result has to contribute to the probability of said result?  Such beliefs make Baby Bayes cry.  I'd love to engage on this issue but it seems like most people here aren't exactly equipped. You know a few points have been raised concerning information theory...you seem pretty mute about them.After post after post from lumen, Bruce_TPU and mrsean2k isn't it a little crazy to pretend they were ignoring me?  What makes you think this is about gaining attention?  I mean Bruce_TPU produced some of the most insubstantial posts in the last 100 on this thread and somehow you think I'm just about trying to get attention?
Hey TROLL,
 
Leave my name out of your trolling!  Don't be a hater, simply because you don't build anything, and use up good oxygen, finding the strength to type your drivel.
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 24, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
Philip's site is now showing a lot of information but now there is no mention of a delivery date in February.  That sounds like the fishing pole is out again to me.

A good analogy for Quentron would be when a kid first goes to an Ikea store.  He sees a model bedroom and when he goes to check out the big flat-screen TV he discovers that it's just a hollow cardboard box with printed paper glued to the surfaces.

In my opinion, and based on what I have seen (or more appropriately not seen) from Philip, is that this whole thing is not real.  The fantastic claims are simply too fantastic and Quentron as a company feels completely virtual.  Like the whole company is just a web site, an email address, and a cell phone number and no more than that.

Time will tell if Philip can add any sense of substance or deliver anything in February.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 24, 2012, 05:56:19 PM
The bigger the potential of a new technology the bigger the propaganda and sabotage attempts become.  It's obvious this thread has become rife with them.   Why would anyone think for a minute that the many muliti-billion and trillion dollar industries that would be affected by such a technology would just lay down and let it run over them?   And why would they try to buy out such a tech when propaganda and sabotage work so well?   Armchair speculators here or paid trolls or maybe those who fear their jobs may disintegrate from such a tech or are just afraid of change?  Why not just wait and see where this technology goes?   Unless you have an agenda of course.   For some that will be like little kids waiting to say 'I told you so'.  For others I suspect it will be the reward of something for trolling.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 24, 2012, 06:22:18 PM
Philip's site is now showing a lot of information but now there is no mention of a delivery date in February.  That sounds like the fishing pole is out again to me.

A good analogy for Quentron would be when a kid first goes to an Ikea store.  He sees a model bedroom and when he goes to check out the big flat-screen TV he discovers that it's just a hollow cardboard box with printed paper glued to the surfaces.

In my opinion, and based on what I have seen (or more appropriately not seen) from Philip, is that this whole thing is not real.  The fantastic claims are simply too fantastic and Quentron as a company feels completely virtual.  Like the whole company is just a web site, an email address, and a cell phone number and no more than that.

Time will tell if Philip can add any sense of substance or deliver anything in February.

'Unprofessional' is the word you are looking for re the site.
With 'world changing, 100% proven tech worth billions it would have been worth spending a few k on a website....and a lawyer!

Licensing details costing millions talked about on the front page of a website - or anywhere on a website is fishy!
Hey, if something is worth that much at least spend a few quid on the website!

My 2c, feel free to ignore.....or if you are a troll then go and tell me I am wrong, a hater, whatever.

Oh, and talk to some guys who know physics - they will let you know how this one will pan out.

Merry christmas!

Mbm
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 24, 2012, 06:48:35 PM
E2matrix:

Quote
The bigger the potential of a new technology the bigger the propaganda and sabotage attempts become.  It's obvious this thread has become rife with them.   Why would anyone think for a minute that the many muliti-billion and trillion dollar industries that would be affected by such a technology would just lay down and let it run over them?   And why would they try to buy out such a tech when propaganda and sabotage work so well?   Armchair speculators here or paid trolls or maybe those who fear their jobs may disintegrate from such a tech or are just afraid of change?  Why not just wait and see where this technology goes?   Unless you have an agenda of course.   For some that will be like little kids waiting to say 'I told you so'.  For others I suspect it will be the reward of something for trolling.

I am going to respond to what you said with some detail just once.  Just once in the sense that this response is almost generic because your comments above are almost generic and I have seen similar comments from you many times over applied to all sorts of cases.

Every time a debate comes up you play the paranoia/conspiracy card.  It's like you are a blind cheerleader for almost any free energy technology.  You never ask technical questions and I am pretty sure that you are not a technical person.  You almost never question the motives behind free energy propositions or consider both sides of a claim.  It like you 'consume' free energy propositions without ever considering their merits or considering both views of the proposition.  And I believe you stated that you have been following the free energy scene for more than 20 years!

You live in a paranoid cloak and dagger world of your own imagination.  No matter how ridiculous and how lacking in any credibility the free energy proposition might be, you believe it and are willing to play the MIB card.  After a certain point in time it's almost comical.  You have seen countless free energy propositions outright fail, or whither on the vine, or be exposed as hoaxes, or be exposed as true cons, and yet you still apparently want to believe the vast majority of them are true and any problems may be associated with "paid disinformation agents" or the "MIB."

In this particular case of Quentron there is simply no substance to Phil and his claim.  Have you ever seen any data from him?  Any prototypes?  Have you ever read any comments from Phil where you get the sense that there is a real, tangible organization behind him?

I don't get any feeling whatsoever that there is any substance to Phil and his claim at all.  I just see endless delays.  Recently someone made a comment and he got 'hurt' and pulled his website.  This was a few weeks before he was supposed to 'launch.'  Is that what a real, serious organization is supposed to do, pull their website because of an anonymous comment on a free energy chat board?

Look at the excuse on the web site now:

Quote
We had hoped to have completed the work by November but we had an unexpected labour issue that cost us over a month.

I don't recall him saying about a labour issue on his last few 'excuse' postings here on OU.

You need to 'let reality in' E2matrix.  Sometimes free energy propositions are just bunk, and the MIB are not some magical angel that swoops in an 'saves the day' and explains the reason behind every failed free energy proposition.  You need to put your 'critical thinking skills' hat on and start admiring how much better you look with that hat on.

Every time you make a content-less 'MIB' posting you are impugning and denigrating the characters of the people that question the claim.  Yet you never try to debate the merits of the claim yourself.  You are trying to imply that nearly all people that question free energy claims are on the payroll of mysterious and evil government or industrial cartels.  That means that you are trying to imply that people that question free energy claims are evil themselves.  This has to stop and you need to wake up from your stupor.  Blind believing in free energy propositions and blind believing in 'the grand MIB conspiracy' and constantly impugning the characters of people that debate the issues is surely a mind-numbing stupor.

In plain English, enough of the MIB comments and comments like, "The bigger the potential of a new technology the bigger the propaganda and sabotage attempts become.  It's obvious this thread has become rife with them."

It's obvious that you are not thinking.  Start thinking and start respecting people with differing opinions than yours and stop trying to portray them as evil people on the payroll of evil organizations.  After a certain point in time it's simply ridiculous.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2012, 07:03:17 PM
The bigger the potential of a new technology the bigger the propaganda and sabotage attempts become.  It's obvious this thread has become rife with them.
I'd be laughing if this wasn't so sad.  Are you actually suggesting that I'm the best propaganda a trillion dollar company can buy?
Quote
Armchair speculators here or paid trolls or maybe those who fear their jobs may disintegrate from such a tech or are just afraid of change? 
Dude, I've made two points.  One Philip agrees with - that he sucks at management - which of course should imply something about his next deadline and the other he's been unwilling or unable to formulate an answer to - which was that he's violating information theory (and probably computational complexity theory)
Quote
Why not just wait and see where this technology goes?   Unless you have an agenda of course.
Why not just talk about all of the shortcomings of Philip and his hypothetical device?   Unless you have an agenda for keeping free thought down!  Philip doesn't even have a single Quenco - it's hard to call this a technology in that sense.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2012, 07:05:01 PM
This space for rent.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Here2njoy on December 24, 2012, 07:05:26 PM
I post very seldom, but here are my thoughts.
Everyplace that shares knowledge is good, even from the naysayers. It rededicates those among us that want a better world.
The collective consciousness will have a far better chance at creating more AH-AH moments than having to remember as just one person with no prior knowledge.
Free energy may not exist, but creating efficiencies has always existed and there is no denying that.
I am a firm believer in exponential evolution.  Ray Kurzweil can site many many instances of this and there are few doubters of this fact.
At some point in the future just like air is today, heat from the sun, or the abundance of water on this planet, things can appear as virtually free. (many things come to mind for me)
Groups like this will aid in the advancement of not free energy but darn cheap energy that appears almost free years from now. 
So Carry ON! Lets talk again in 10 years or maybe tomorrow... who knows?

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2012, 07:15:48 PM
I am a firm believer in exponential evolution.  Ray Kurzweil can site many many instances of this and there are few doubters of this fact.
I've read his 600-odd-page-tome-in-search-of-an-editor.  He kind of glosses over things.  Three of his examples of exponential growth is clock speed, transistor count and computer performance.  You can only really make an argument in maybe one of those cases.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Here2njoy on December 24, 2012, 09:33:14 PM
Love it!  You are a great thinker.  If not for you and those filled with wonder, the pace would be all together different.
My mind thought of LED's, voice & ocr recognition, dna sequencing, nano material creation, telescopes, disk storage, space flight, 3D printers, and most of all interconnectedness, growing at warp-net speeds.  (suffering greatly within several societies around the world however, for change is coming far to quickly for some).
But I'm sure in your mind you might find just maybe one of these that qualifies too because all things can be considered one and the same from some perspectives.
High praise for those filled with wonder for it is a "Wonder Full" time to be alive.  Don't you agree?
In conclusion as the "Sci fi" channel suggests,  "Question Everything!" and then the process of wonder begins.....

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 24, 2012, 10:20:25 PM
Love it!  You are a great thinker.  If not for you and those filled with wonder, the pace would be all together different.
My mind thought of LED's, voice & ocr recognition, dna sequencing, nano material creation, telescopes, disk storage, space flight, 3D printers, and most of all interconnectedness, growing at warp-net speeds.  (suffering greatly within several societies around the world however, for change is coming far to quickly for some).
But I'm sure in your mind you might find just maybe one of these that qualifies too because all things can be considered one and the same from some perspectives.
High praise for those filled with wonder for it is a "Wonder Full" time to be alive.  Don't you agree?
In conclusion as the "Sci fi" channel suggests,  "Question Everything!" and then the process of wonder begins.....

'Question nothing' and just 'believe' seems to be the order of the day on this thread (sensible questions spell 'troll' to many people here!)!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2012, 10:24:52 PM
My mind thought of LED's, voice & ocr recognition, dna sequencing, nano material creation, telescopes, disk storage, space flight, 3D printers, and most of all interconnectedness, growing at warp-net speeds.  (suffering greatly within several societies around the world however, for change is coming far to quickly for some).
You actually need a unit for things to grow at some pace.  Most of the things you're talking about are unitless.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 25, 2012, 06:52:30 AM
You actually need a unit for things to grow at some pace.  Most of the things you're talking about are unitless.

Ok, here is a unit.
10 years ago it took 6 months to sequence the human DNA, Now it can be done in 20 Minutes and printed on a DVD for you!
20 years ago, it took 6 years to do the same and took many CD's to save the data.

As they say in the computer world, the problem is actually a "ID 10T error". Why would you think a unit is required to show progress?
Progress  can be shown by any change in results, even if the results are worse, because even with worse results, you know your heading in the wrong direction. A batter can hit the ball further and further with each pitch and even though no one is measuring the distance and comparing, progress can be seen.

You arguments are weak and fall into the "ID 10T error" class.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 25, 2012, 07:15:09 AM
Why would you think a unit is required to show progress?
Bitch please.  We are talking about an exponentially increasing rate with respect to time, not just any improvement.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 25, 2012, 05:34:59 PM
Bitch please.  We are talking about an exponentially increasing rate with respect to time, not just any improvement.

Like I said "ID 10T error".

You just need to move the letters closer together!

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 25, 2012, 08:07:14 PM
'Question nothing' and just 'believe' seems to be the order of the day on this thread (sensible questions spell 'troll' to many people here!)!
No one is saying that anyone has to believe in anything. 
 
A TROLL is someone who uses 27 posts to repeat himself again....and again....and again....and again....and ad infinity....
 
Disagree all that you want, but don't badger others who disagree, and don't say the same OLD thing again and never actually contribute anything.  A troll wastes good bandwidth and good oxygen. 
 
Merry Christmas ALL (even to all the Trolls!)  Jesus is the reason for MY season!
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Mr Logic on December 25, 2012, 08:24:47 PM
There is a not very nice phenomenon going on here, probably present site and internet wide as well. Picking on skeptics is a childish and pointless affair. It is utterly irrelevant if someone either 'believes' in this or not. Like religion. Face it, it's a null hypothesis, and unless Quentron, Rossi, thorium or any other holy grail delivers it is no more than that, in fact less, it is nothing.

Why be rude to innocent people and waste energy calling them names when all they are saying is 'Show me the product'. That is not just a reasonable response, it is the only reasonable response. And if you disagree then I know who the trolls really are. Think about it.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 26, 2012, 01:43:18 AM
There is a not very nice phenomenon going on here, probably present site and internet wide as well. Picking on skeptics is a childish and pointless affair. It is utterly irrelevant if someone either 'believes' in this or not. Like religion. Face it, it's a null hypothesis, and unless Quentron, Rossi, thorium or any other holy grail delivers it is no more than that, in fact less, it is nothing.

Why be rude to innocent people and waste energy calling them names when all they are saying is 'Show me the product'. That is not just a reasonable response, it is the only reasonable response. And if you disagree then I know who the trolls really are. Think about it.

I don't get what you are saying. The device does work, it has been proven, it has been tested, and you can even test it for yourself!
 
At this time Philip is attempting to make the device a solid state version that may or may not work, or may not be more efficient.
The basis for this trial has been tested many ways and shown to work. So if any device actually can extract work from an isothermal environment, then what is the question?
There can be no skeptics except for lazy skeptics that only complain about other peoples work.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Qwert on December 26, 2012, 03:01:50 AM
The device does work, it has been proven, it has been tested, and you can even test it for yourself!

But this device does not exist yet. Right?
Shouldn't it sound rather like this:
we want to build a device. The device will work on a certain principle which we tested and proved it works.

It's rather hard for an amateur to create and handle a technology to obtain a nano-scale thick product.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2012, 05:54:24 AM
Lumen:

Quote
I don't get what you are saying. The device does work, it has been proven, it has been tested, and you can even test it for yourself!

If you are referring to putting a TV tube into a 500-degree blazing toaster-oven as a true isothermal test it's a joke.  I noticed that nobody on this thread backed me up to state that the test was invalid.  Not to mention that it produced something like 10^-12 watts.

When people are in a thread they would be better off having the courage and conviction to express their true opinions.  Clearly that test was not valid and I suspect that many people would agree with me.  If you showed that test setup to a college professor he would roll his eyes and silently scream to himself.  Another interesting point to note is that even Philip had nothing critical to say about the ridiculous toaster-oven test.

So all that we have right now are Phillip's claims that one of his devices will be able to power an iPad.  He posted stating that that would be how he would demo the alleged technology to the world.  Anybody remember that?  We are not supposed to be talking about a few layers coming out of the semiconductor fab producing a few microwatts or nanowatts as a proof-of-concept device - Philip was talking about powering an iPad with a real device that was supposed to be launched in Q4 2012.

So the snooze button has been pushed again and we will wait.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 26, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
But this device does not exist yet. Right?
Shouldn't it sound rather like this:
we want to build a device. The device will work on a certain principle which we tested and proved it works.

It's rather hard for an amateur to create and handle a technology to obtain a nano-scale thick product.
It could sound something like that depending on when you think this became a serious effort to build it.
To me, the serious effort started when Philip started work at Stanford University.
If you want to do your own testing, 35,000 USD will get you an ALD chamber off ebay.
2LOT has already been compromised, so finding better methods will just be a matter of time.
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Like I said "ID 10T error".

You just need to move the letters closer together!
Can you give me an example of a physical quantity exponentially increasing with respect to time without a unit?
Quote from: Bruce_TPU
A TROLL is someone who uses 27 posts to repeat himself again....and again....and again....and again....and ad infinity....
How about someone who writes posts which are simply vapid namecalling? Like calling someone a troll?  Apparently you're allowed a lot of those around here.

Anyone who takes the time to look can see each of my posts was a response to a specific statement by someone about something I had said. If you don't get how I was elucidating then perhaps you didn't understand the post to begin with.
Quote from: lumen
I don't get what you are saying. The device does work, it has been proven, it has been tested, and you can even test it for yourself!
The idea that someone thinks that what is presented by Philip and to a lesser extent yourself is perhaps less than sufficient is entirely unintelligible to you should be an enormously huge red flag with fireworks that perhaps your belief extends much farther than the evidence can support.

Philip claims he made something and recorded some effect.  So did you.  Technically these aren't Quenco's even Philip doesn't call them that.  There is no fabricated Quenco.  Not to mention that Philip and you are simply assuming that what ever you think you observed is due to some effect that you are hoping can be replicated with these devices.  The idea that some might consider such evidence as rather weak.  Isn't exactly irrational.

Engineers and Stock Analysts really need to read Karl Popper (my apologies in advance to the sane subset of Engineers I've met)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 26, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
No one is saying that anyone has to believe in anything. 
 
A TROLL is someone who uses 27 posts to repeat himself again....and again....and again....and again....and ad infinity....
 
Disagree all that you want, but don't badger others who disagree, and don't say the same OLD thing again and never actually contribute anything.  A troll wastes good bandwidth and good oxygen. 
 
Merry Christmas ALL (even to all the Trolls!)  Jesus is the reason for MY season!
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce

To be fair, most of my posts have been questions and statements of fact (read them!!).
With regards to repeating things (something you are also guilty of), if anyone (PJH included) were in a position to answer some questions then I wouldn't repeat.

Without scientific proof (Quenco is claimed to exist and is proven 100% - sorry for repeating that!) then all your beliefs are just that.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2012, 08:06:22 PM
To be fair, most of my posts have been questions and statements of fact (read them!!).
With regards to repeating things (something you are also guilty of), if anyone (PJH included) were in a position to answer some questions then I wouldn't repeat.

Without scientific proof (Quenco is claimed to exist and is proven 100% - sorry for repeating that!) then all your beliefs are just that.
I wasn't writing concerning you, but if your conscience is bothering you, or if the shoe fits, hey, who am I to disagree.
 
I have NO belief system about quenco, other than I believe that PH believes in his project.  I am patiently waiting for what ever month PH decides to demo.  I have said to you and to the real troll, that to continue to verbally cut PH to shreds with innuendos, mismanagment accusations, etc., ad nausua is a WASTE OF TIME and prolongs STRIFE.  It will not hurry nor change the schedule, it adds nothing to the scientific discussion, provides no experiments, no builds, but simply PROLONGS STRIFE.  And I have had enough of it.
 
So many good member of OU.com have quit because they are sick of the *?*&^ talked about, and that no one builds anything or experiments anymore.  (very few, at most)
 
And the REAL TRoll can say the same thing 27 times in 27 different ways, with his snide, arrogant remarks, but he STILL says the same thing.  And yes SARKEIZEN, I am talking about you.
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2012, 08:32:44 PM
I wasn't writing concerning you, but if your conscience is bothering you, or if the shoe fits, hey, who am I to disagree.
 
I have NO belief system about quenco, other than I believe that PH believes in his project.
Total and utter lie.  You believe that what Philip describes is plausible.  You believe that Philip is capable of delivering said plausible idea.  I could probably list an easy half dozen beliefs you have other than "Oh only Philip believes"
Quote
I am patiently waiting for what ever month PH decides to demo.
I'm patiently waiting for some people to realize that Philip has made this decision many times...and each time failed to produce a device.
Quote
  I have said to you and to the real troll, that to continue to verbally cut PH to shreds with innuendos, mismanagment accusations,
Where exactly is the innuendo?  Being a bad manager is absolutely correct - Philip himself has agreed with me.   Not to mention that it's a logical consequence of believing that Philip isn't a liar and that the Quenco device isn't the problem. 
Quote
etc., ad nausua is a WASTE OF TIME
Again nobody elected you (or mrsean2k) to the high-and-mighty-council-of-what-is-and-is-not-a-waste-of-time.  Sorry you prefer that belief...why not just try and deal with the diversity that is life? Instead of badgering people into your belief system.   I'm perfectly cool with the fact that people here want to hide from some of the logical problems that come from Philip's repeated failures to produce a device.  It's like watching a doomsday cult without the funny ending.
Quote
It will not hurry nor change the schedule, it adds nothing to the scientific discussion
It adds valuable information as to how seriously we should take Philips claims.   This is, as has been mentioned a few times simply a logical consequence.
Quote
And I have had enough of it.

How about you simply stop creating all the strife?  So far you seem to be a primary cause.  You know, with your vapid namecalling...just a thought.
Quote
So many good member of OU.com have quit because they are sick of the *?*&^ talked about, and that no one builds anything or experiments anymore.  (very few, at most)
Well perhaps you should be having your little tantrum at Philip?  So far he has built nothing. Heck as far as this thread goes all you're doing is talking crap, vapid crap at that not even a logical argument and you sure don't appear to be building anything.  So perhaps you can yell at yourself in the mirror for awhile.
Quote
And the REAL TRoll can say the same thing 27 times in 27 different ways, with his snide, arrogant remarks
What same thing am I saying?  You keep leaving that out.
Quote
And yes SARKEIZEN, I am talking about you.
When aren't you?  Take a nap, relax.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2012, 08:55:13 PM
Total and utter lie.  You believe that what Philip describes is plausible.  You believe that Philip is capable of delivering said plausible idea.  I could probably list an easy half dozen beliefs you have other than "Oh only Philip believes"I'm patiently waiting for some people to realize that Philip has made this decision many times...and each time failed to produce a device. (28 times)
 
 

Where exactly is the innuendo?  Being a bad manager is absolutely correct - Philip himself has agreed with me.   Not to mention that it's a logical consequence of believing that Philip isn't a liar and that the Quenco device isn't the problem.  Again nobody elected you (or mrsean2k) to the high-and-mighty-council-of-what-is-and-is-not-a-waste-of-time.  Sorry you prefer that belief...why not just try and deal with the diversity that is life? Instead of badgering people into your belief system.   I'm perfectly cool with the fact that people here want to hide from some of the logical problems that come from Philip's repeated failures to produce a device.  (29 times)

  It's like watching a doomsday cult without the funny ending.It adds valuable information as to how seriously we should take Philips claims.   This is, as has been mentioned a few times simply a logical consequence.
How about you simply stop creating all the strife?  So far you seem to be a primary cause.  You know, with your vapid namecalling...just a thought.Well perhaps you should be having your little tantrum at Philip?  So far he has built nothing. (30 times)

Heck as far as this thread goes all you're doing is talking crap, vapid crap at that not even a logical argument and you sure don't appear to be building anything.  So perhaps you can yell at yourself in the mirror for awhile.What same thing am I saying?  (Gee I wonder!?  You are one stubborn, thick headed individual.  IMHO  30 times now you have repeated yourself.)
 
You keep leaving that out.When aren't you?  Take a nap, relax.

Case and point!
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2012, 09:38:56 PM
Case and point!
ROTFL....so wait, wait, wait.  If you say something that implies that Philip hasn't yet selected a date to demo.  Nobody is allowed to point out that the truth is something different than that?   Ever think that perhaps you're coming up with arbitrary rules as a method of avoiding cognitive dissonance?

Similarly when you express your ire toward people because you like to pretend that they haven't built things while you defend someone else but again we're not allowed to point out the gaping hole in that reasoning?

Again don't you think you're kind of being arbitrary?  After all it's not like you're not repeating yourself....the main difference is that you're being vapid.  Uh congradulations?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 26, 2012, 09:53:56 PM
Can you give me an example of a physical quantity exponentially increasing with respect to time without a unit?

Sure I can, how about your posts in this channel!

They seem to be increasing exponentially in time, without unit.



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2012, 09:56:06 PM
Sure I can, how about your posts in this channel!
Isn't "posts per day" a unit?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 26, 2012, 11:10:53 PM
Isn't "posts per day" a unit?

Yes, posts per day could be a unit, so could words per day, so could bytes per day, bytes per hour, or minute or any way to quantize the data.

But then, I did not need any unit to see the result.

You only need a unit to prove to someone else a result! But that's not what you said.
Though, you could say I just believe that's the result if I don't produce any data to prove it, but the fact is, the data is real only you believe it is not!



Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 26, 2012, 11:16:53 PM
E2matrix:

I am going to respond to what you said with some detail just once.  Just once in the sense that this response is almost generic because your comments above are almost generic and I have seen similar comments from you many times over applied to all sorts of cases.

Every time a debate comes up you play the paranoia/conspiracy card.  It's like you are a blind cheerleader for almost any free energy technology.  You never ask technical questions and I am pretty sure that you are not a technical person.  You almost never question the motives behind free energy propositions or consider both sides of a claim.  It like you 'consume' free energy propositions without ever considering their merits or considering both views of the proposition.  And I believe you stated that you have been following the free energy scene for more than 20 years!

You live in a paranoid cloak and dagger world of your own imagination.  No matter how ridiculous and how lacking in any credibility the free energy proposition might be, you believe it and are willing to play the MIB card.  After a certain point in time it's almost comical.  You have seen countless free energy propositions outright fail, or whither on the vine, or be exposed as hoaxes, or be exposed as true cons, and yet you still apparently want to believe the vast majority of them are true and any problems may be associated with "paid disinformation agents" or the "MIB."

In this particular case of Quentron there is simply no substance to Phil and his claim.  Have you ever seen any data from him?  Any prototypes?  Have you ever read any comments from Phil where you get the sense that there is a real, tangible organization behind him?

I don't get any feeling whatsoever that there is any substance to Phil and his claim at all.  I just see endless delays.  Recently someone made a comment and he got 'hurt' and pulled his website.  This was a few weeks before he was supposed to 'launch.'  Is that what a real, serious organization is supposed to do, pull their website because of an anonymous comment on a free energy chat board?

Look at the excuse on the web site now:

I don't recall him saying about a labour issue on his last few 'excuse' postings here on OU.

You need to 'let reality in' E2matrix.  Sometimes free energy propositions are just bunk, and the MIB are not some magical angel that swoops in an 'saves the day' and explains the reason behind every failed free energy proposition.  You need to put your 'critical thinking skills' hat on and start admiring how much better you look with that hat on.

Every time you make a content-less 'MIB' posting you are impugning and denigrating the characters of the people that question the claim.  Yet you never try to debate the merits of the claim yourself.  You are trying to imply that nearly all people that question free energy claims are on the payroll of mysterious and evil government or industrial cartels.  That means that you are trying to imply that people that question free energy claims are evil themselves.  This has to stop and you need to wake up from your stupor.  Blind believing in free energy propositions and blind believing in 'the grand MIB conspiracy' and constantly impugning the characters of people that debate the issues is surely a mind-numbing stupor.

In plain English, enough of the MIB comments and comments like, "The bigger the potential of a new technology the bigger the propaganda and sabotage attempts become.  It's obvious this thread has become rife with them."

It's obvious that you are not thinking.  Start thinking and start respecting people with differing opinions than yours and stop trying to portray them as evil people on the payroll of evil organizations.  After a certain point in time it's simply ridiculous.

MileHigh

LOL - That's funny that you are so anal you have to send me a PM to make sure I see your response.   So yeah I'm a cheerleader for positive change.   I'll agree to that much.   But if you were paying attention you would see I've called out a number of things as FAKE on your other hangout OUR.   Even one brought up by the PhysicsProf recently.   You think I'm not a technical person?   That's good because that means my system works for those that aren't real sharp.   I'd prefer people not think I'm too smart or technical.  I'll probably have to delete this post because it may reveal the opposite.   Some examples:  deleted now that MileHigh has seen it. 
   We won't go into my IQ because I don't want to have to live up to that level all the time.  I'm too lazy for that and I actually prefer to keep things casual on forums.   I'd rather people thought I was just average as it saves me a lot of trouble.   But do I spend time asking technical questions?   Sometimes but I am not an expert in the field that Phil is working in but I do consider myself an expert (with training) in judging people's character.   I believe Phil is honest and knowledgeable enough to know whether he has a valid concept that can turn into a product.   The fact the he even moved to the U.S. temporarily to move forward with this speaks volumes.   
      For those familiar with your reputation I need not say more.   For those who aren't let me ask if you have ever supported any concept that would lead to overunity or free energy (meaning much more affordable energy) for the masses?   Have you ever thought any concept could lead to this?   Last question deleted as apparently MH thinks it's some sort of prejudice thing.  Not sure how he got that from my question but I don't have any intention of seriously upsetting anyone nor am I even remotely prejudiced.   I can only conclude from his reaction that he may be a minority.   I welcome all race, religions, genders, nationalities  etc. here.  Zero prejudice and I don't want to see any prejudice here.   
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2012, 11:49:31 PM
E2matrix:

I sent you a PM because I thought that you were going to ignore the posting and/or you may have not seen it because it is delayed.  Several times in the past I recall making a technical point to correct something you said and you did not acknowledge it.  You made posting with a mocking tone to me a while back about battery voltages climbing under load and I responded with a technical reply and you said nothing.

Good on you for calling things fake, I simply can't remember ever reading that from you.

"aren't real sharp" - so you want to take a jab at me, I can take it.  To take a jab back at you, I have seen you endorse and support completely nonsensical foolishness, which sometimes gets posted around here.  Like you have totally glazed eyes and are simply a blank.

"I do consider myself an expert (with training) in judging people's character.   I believe Phil is honest and knowledgeable enough to know whether he has a valid concept that can turn into a product."

I beg to disagree and I have already stated my contrary opinion on Phil and his proposition.  Does that make me a evil person that is on the payroll of Big Government or Big Industry?  The answer is no, and I resent it being stated so casually by you as if it were some sort of a given.  When a Joe Blow makes a little spinning pulse motor nobody is watching.  The reason I state that is because it's simply preposterous to think that people are watching the pulse motor builders ready to threaten and even assault them.  You are just falling hook, line, and sinker for an old cliche that is itself often played by people with fake free energy propositions.

I like debating the merits of some free energy propositions.  If I ever saw something that I thought was legitimate I would embrace it.  I am not going to answer that last question, it smacks of the worst of the worst that we want to avoid around here.  There are no "Colored" and "White" bathrooms and lunch counters any more in the US.  Have you noticed?  Do you want me to push you to the back of the bus under threat of violence if you refuse?  You had better do some soul searching about your last question.

Simply stop trying to insinuate that people that want to debate free energy propositions are evil and likely on the payroll of evil Big Government or evil corporations.  Show some critical thinking skills and show balance and wisdom in your judgement of character.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2012, 11:55:42 PM
Yes, posts per day could be a unit, so could words per day, so could bytes...
Except that you said "posts".  Not words or bytes.  It's right up there in the post history.  "posts" clear as day.  Let's look at the quote:
Quote from: lumen
Sure I can, how about your posts in this channel!
See...posts.   
Quote
But then, I did not need any unit to see the result.
Actually you did.  You needed to decide on "posts".  Which you did.  See? Come back when you have a coherent thought.  I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 27, 2012, 12:15:59 AM

I got a PM too!
Accusing me of having a 'mocking tone' in response to some battery voltage rising under load.......not sure what that's all about?!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 27, 2012, 12:36:28 AM
I got a PM too!
Accusing me of having a 'mocking tone' in response to some battery voltage rising under load.......not sure what that's all about?!
I think the messages were for e2matrix and we were added to the recipients because we be the skeptics.

I mean true I thought e2matrix's crazy post is about as sharp as a sack of hammers but is that really so strange?   Where I come from we don't really self-identify with terms like "skeptic".  We just think believing any old shit is stupid.

But  here? I look at luten and wonder why, given his low threshold for "proof" and wonder why he (or she) doesn't convert to six different religions over the course of breakfast. Cheerleader Bruce, who heads up the "You need my permission to be critical about anything" brigade.  Do people like this really exist? or is this just some forum to troll sane folks? --- It would at least explain the UFO and alternative medicine forums attached here :)

I mean I get that much of the behavior can be explained as dissonance avoiding but it's pretty freaking extreme if you ask me.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 27, 2012, 12:50:36 AM
Except that you said "posts".  Not words or bytes.  It's right up there in the post history.  "posts" clear as day.  Let's look at the quote:See...posts.    Actually you did.  You needed to decide on "posts".  Which you did.  See? Come back when you have a coherent thought.  I won't hold my breath.

Oh yea..... but I meant posts per hour....... ah...so....your calculations are still crap as is your line of thinking because that is not even the point.
Posts are unit less if not framed so no matter how you twist the facts your still wrong!

yup let me move the letters closer for you! ID10T...... yea I can see the data now!
You cannot win this game because it's not what I say, It's what I don't say. Now.....Lets play again.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 27, 2012, 01:09:20 AM
@ MileHigh
PLEASE STOP sending me PM's to "make sure that I saw your response".  Frankly, I'm not interested
 
@ Sarcophagus zian
Get a grip on your lip, ma'm.  Your repetitive dissonance is trolling my mind. PLEASE!
 
@ Phillip
Keep on trucking!!  You must be onto something for so much grey noise to be on the thread.  LOL  Impatient peeps will want to be your best friend when you show some demo.  I can hear it now, "Oh, Phillip, congratulations!  I was just playing about all of that nonsense and drivel I was spewing on your once decent and semi scientific thread."
 
Cheers,
Bruce
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Mr Logic on December 27, 2012, 01:19:29 AM
No such thing as a skeptic, just an open mind and scientific method. Use a flow diagram, work each story through and one by one each drops off the line. It's always an issue of beating the null hypothesis until the pile of evidence crosses the line of credibility.

The name calling which has now dominated this thread (admittedly in the face of bugger all solid scientific material) is just the child coming out in everyone probably because there's nothing better to watch on TV so came here to let it all hang out. But when a real story comes in there won't be any skeptics or believers because we'll all know. But not yet.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 27, 2012, 01:51:31 AM
Posts are unit less
You don't think a "post" is a unit? 
Quote
You cannot win this game because it's not what I say, It's what I don't say. Now.....Lets play again.
I agree that you aren't saying things that make sense and that is what is keeping you from "winning".
Quote from: Bruce_TPC
Keep on trucking!!

Apparently Philip's Christmas travels took him as far away as 1930.
Quote
You must be onto something for so much grey noise to be on the thread.
Wait.  What?   So if someone posts something ridiculous and a lot of people say "Hey that's ridiculous!" that's in your mind a VALIDATION of their ridiculous principle?

By the same token you have generated so much "grey noise" about what I've said that by YOUR OWN LOGIC you must think my criticisms are valid
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LOL  Impatient peeps
What is the weird fixation with patience here?  It's been said multiple times by multiple people that Philip is missing his own deadlines.  Which presumably he can set to whatever he wants.  Commenting on this isn't exactly a matter of patience.
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will want to be your best friend when you show some demo.  I can hear it now, "Oh, Phillip, congratulations!  I was just playing about all of that nonsense and drivel I was spewing on your
So you have vivid fantasies about Philip being right but you have absolutely no beliefs about Quenco....right.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 27, 2012, 02:08:05 AM
No such thing as a skeptic, just an open mind and scientific method. Use a flow diagram, work each story through and one by one each drops off the line. It's always an issue of beating the null hypothesis until the pile of evidence crosses the line of credibility.

The name calling which has now dominated this thread (admittedly in the face of bugger all solid scientific material) is just the child coming out in everyone probably because there's nothing better to watch on TV so came here to let it all hang out. But when a real story comes in there won't be any skeptics or believers because we'll all know. But not yet.

I think I like your viewpoint.   ;)      Although I suspect the recent spate of agitations may be more due to the upcoming full Moon in 2 days.   Ask any cop in a big city if they don't have a lot more domestic trouble calls during full Moon time. 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Mr Logic on December 27, 2012, 03:12:52 AM
Thanks e2matrix, I also wonder (not being a prophet of doom but using the principle of intertia, things tend to continue as they are) how long this same argument will continue into 2013 after the nth delay and postponement. I think my relative patience seems to come with being around in the early days and seeing one after another of these evaporate after an average of three years in the media and later the internet. And yes, whoever said it, they are little different from the doomsday cults, the only difference being is as I know people who have personally managed these feats on paper and in reality but do not have the means to enter production (the money required for all but the really cheap units is prohibitive as you'd expect). Therefore I am guessing the technology can exist and am disappointed how badly run the companies and individual manufacturers are in wasting everyone's time announcing things when in fact they are trying to attract funds and nowhere near a working model.

If they were removed somehow from the system before they could taint it then the remainder would be genuine, pre-funded and fit for purpose before they were announced. But as so far these guys follow the previous one's pattern in unison and come out half cocked they actually lose far more potential support although some may get a few grand bunged at them by over-enthusiastic investors. I wish Quentron is different but it's actually an archetypal example so far. There are the standard stages of initial offer, optimism, claims, followed by a period of deadly quiet, followed by a few quiet apologies blaming everyone except themselves, then contrition, new optimism, revelation dates, further delays, apologies, excuses etc, until they quietly vanish into the shadows they appeared from. This one looks like it's in the final stages to me, approaching the final death rattle. I wish I was wrong but looking towards history it's never been any different to now.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 27, 2012, 05:45:47 AM
Thanks e2matrix, I also wonder (not being a prophet of doom but using the principle of intertia, things tend to continue as they are) how long this same argument will continue into 2013 after the nth delay and postponement. I think my relative patience seems to come with being around in the early days and seeing one after another of these evaporate after an average of three years in the media and later the internet. And yes, whoever said it, they are little different from the doomsday cults, the only difference being is as I know people who have personally managed these feats on paper and in reality but do not have the means to enter production (the money required for all but the really cheap units is prohibitive as you'd expect). Therefore I am guessing the technology can exist and am disappointed how badly run the companies and individual manufacturers are in wasting everyone's time announcing things when in fact they are trying to attract funds and nowhere near a working model.

If they were removed somehow from the system before they could taint it then the remainder would be genuine, pre-funded and fit for purpose before they were announced. But as so far these guys follow the previous one's pattern in unison and come out half cocked they actually lose far more potential support although some may get a few grand bunged at them by over-enthusiastic investors. I wish Quentron is different but it's actually an archetypal example so far. There are the standard stages of initial offer, optimism, claims, followed by a period of deadly quiet, followed by a few quiet apologies blaming everyone except themselves, then contrition, new optimism, revelation dates, further delays, apologies, excuses etc, until they quietly vanish into the shadows they appeared from. This one looks like it's in the final stages to me, approaching the final death rattle. I wish I was wrong but looking towards history it's never been any different to now.

I'm not sure how much of this msg. thread you have read but I believe quite the opposite.   I've also had private emails with the inventor.   Do you know he just came to America in the last couple months to work with some people at Stanford University and to make arrangements with some Silicon valley companies that are able to handle the high level of precision nano scale manufacturing needed to produce these?   He just left a week or two ago to return home to Australia for the Holidays and will come back here again to move forward soon.   All this at his own expense and I don't personally see anything from the Inventor  that sounds like anything bad at all.  It sounds simply like any project being done the first time takes longer than you expect.   I once worked on a job where I built a certain phase of a yacht.   It took me 7 or 8 hours to complete each one the first week.  I was then told I had to be able to do it in 2.5 hours.  I was told if I could do it quicker than that I could sit on my butt if I wanted to.  Within a few weeks I had gotten it down to where I could do it in 45 minutes sometimes.  My point is simply that the inventor is doing many things for the first time.   If he had done this 20 times before and he said he would be ready by December 1st and he missed that by more than a few days I would question what's going on.  But he has never nor has anyone else EVER done what he is now doing.   So I don't know why people are surprised when he misses a few dates on this.  I know I have more patience than many people but some around here act like a little kid having a tantrum that he didn't get his ice cream fast enough.   Maybe it's the fear of the doomsday predictions or the possibility of the economy falling apart that is driving people to be short on patience.  I had hoped to have a 'free energy' system in place by now.   I do have some in place with solar but not enough to fully run things the way I'd like.   I keep looking at all the new things that come along and prefer to encourage inventors rather than stifle them with a lot of negative statements especially if they are not asking for money nor asking people here to dish out their own money to build replications.   Phil (the inventor) is not asking for either of those things but rather came here seeking some ideas along the lines of how best to get this out to the public.   So I still have a hard time understanding why it is people want to bash him every way to Sunday unless they have some agenda.   I may have a slightly different take on Milehigh now after some PM's.   If I am to believe what he states he simply likes to debate free energy.   But I'm not fully on the side of believing that 100% yet.   I'm just a couple steps to the right of where I was on MH's motives here.   

    Having had a fairly good start understanding the scientific method I used to be initially a skeptic.   But along the way I began to understand how the very nature of our current 'science' seems to make new invention or discovery of anything a nearly impossible nightmarish maze of BS intent on stifling anything that might challenge a major or even minor established 'theory'.  While there is some good reason for having an obstacle course in place I do believe the ego's of scientists involved, the investments by those in power and the resistance to change anything that would upset any large economic systems has made a nearly impossible course for most to navigate.   So now I do all I can to encourage anything that has not been solidly proven false and from the aspect of sociology and/or psychology I believe it is a much better choice for those who actually want to have free energy (or much more affordable energy) to encourage inventors than to badger, stifle, demean, harass and relentlessly go after them like some rabid pitbull.   If a technology or invention is not valid it will become obvious at some point all on it's own without all the other nonsense. 

    I just had another theory spring to mind as to why some are so impatient here to have proof.   There may be some here with money to invest who are looking to get a jump on a new technology even if it is not with the inventor himself they might be looking at putting money into a company that buys a license for quenco.  Let's say Intel buys a license but AMD does not.   In a year Intel is making motherboards and CPU's with an internal power supply which never needs to be plugged into an outside energy source - NEVER.  It even provides power for the hard drives - a self running computer that never needs to be plugged in - not even for charging.   What will happen to Intel stock?     ;)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 27, 2012, 06:17:00 AM
You don't think a "post" is a unit?

Yes a post is a unit of......of......well, how about you tell us sarkeizen, because most of us here already know what one of your posts is a unit of.
Just like a ring in your nose.

Why don't you tell us what you know about 2LOT and Philip's experimental proof. That would be more on subject.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 27, 2012, 06:36:01 AM
Milehigh,  In the past it seemed that people who either got banned here or banned at energeticforum, or they had issues with either of those 2 major energy discussion forums would go to overunityresearch forum.  That's just the way it seemed to me anyway and I've seen plenty of grumbling over there about OU and EF forums so it tends to reinforce my feeling.  So I somewhat looked at that as the place for misfits to go although it's far from really being that but I'd say it leans that way - sorry poynt99 - just my opinion.   I just went over there now to check in as I was going to send you my last 3 posts I made there since every one of them was a post by me calling this or that concept a fake and exposing what I had found in some cases.  In one case I was the first one on this forum to find proof of the fakery and posted it here since the same topic had come up here.   I called out 3 different devices as being fake and explained how I thought they were faked or in the one case showed proof.  I went to overunityresearch.com to send you a PM of those 3 posts so you could see I'm not just a cheerleader of everything that comes along as you said. 
    But I can't find you in the member list there anymore.  I thought that was sort of your main forum you debated on.   Did you get banned from there?    Well if you did you can still probably read my messages I was going to PM you there.  Look for #34 and #44 in the "The TPU principle rediscovered!" thread and #10 in the "Claimed self-running AC motor-generator + load (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1571.msg26514#msg26514)" thread.   It's obvious I don't always play the 'cheerleader'.   Okay I'm done for a while.   Your turn   ;D
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 27, 2012, 07:05:02 AM
Yes a post is a unit of......of......well, how about you tell us sarkeizen, because most of us here already know what one of your posts is a unit of.
Yawn.  When you're cornered you change the subject.  How original.  Why not just admit you were wrong? or confused...I mean you seemed to have some problem with what I was typing but you couldn't - other than using strawmen - come up with an argument.  Now you seem to realize that I was right but you just want to be a jerk about it.  Way to seize the moral high-ground there.
Quote
Why don't you tell us what you know about 2LOT and Philip's experimental proof. That would be more on subject.
Why don't you read what I've already posted?  By the by "proof" isn't a very good term since it's rather hugely ambiguous.  I prefer talking about evidence.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 27, 2012, 08:02:04 AM
I've also had private emails with the inventor.   Do you know he just came to America in the last couple months to work with some people at Stanford University and to make arrangements with some Silicon valley companies that are able to handle the high level of precision nano scale manufacturing needed to produce these?
Actually, if you actually read his posts his alleged work at Stanford started probably around October.  This makes for the whole "Philip, despite boasting about his business acumen.  Looks like he can't run a lemonade stand." theory.  See while not every research relationship is public knowledge the vast majority are.  If Philip is doing credible research and they're really so close.  Then the university PR machine has been really not doing their job.  Philip who has no problem blabbing here and there on his alleged breakthrough would be a pretty crappy manager if he didn't put a bug in the ear of the Uni PR department and get them to do their jobs.

What is far,far,far,far,far more likely is, if Philip is in Stanford he's just renting facilities.  Which just about anyone can do if they have the money.

If you look at the various gaps in deadlines across various forums there seems to be a pretty consistent two-three month gap for each major change (followed by a few small shifts).  If Philip is doing anything at all, he's probably trying to get something fabricated.   Designs get sent out and then non-functional parts get shipped back.  So what I'd guess we're seeing here, if anything is someone who keeps thinking they've found "the problem" with their design.  Then enters some kind of fabrication process.  Then receives the non-functional part and tries again.  Each time feeling more and more confident that the current design is correct.
Quote
  He just left a week or two ago to return home to Australia for the Holidays and will come back here again to move forward soon.
He said he had absolutely no doubt he would have viable product by the end of February.  Now that date is vapourware and some entirely new story about a "labour problem" appears on the website.
Quote
All this at his own expense and I don't personally see anything from the Inventor  that sounds like anything bad at all.
Why would that be a comfort to anyone with a brain?  Seriously "I don't see anything" is only useful if you could guarantee that the majority of problems you could spot.  In order to know that you would also have to know the "total number of possible problems".  Otherwise...so what?  Might as well say claim that your code works because a fisherman can't see a problem with it.

Quote
It sounds simply like any project being done the first time takes longer than you expect.
Philip has given at least five "for sure" deadlines in the last year alone.   Including one a year ago February which was almost exactly a year before his most current deadline for February.  His most recent deadline, included the statement that he had no doubt.   How many times can something "take longer than you expect" before you're a complete moron if you don't start realizing that your estimates are useless?

I managed a job once where someone constantly shifted their deadline.  Something that they costed out at four months took over a year - and it still wasn't done.  So I fired them brought on someone else.  Finished out in two months.

Quote
So I don't know why people are surprised when he misses a few dates on this.
Perhaps because you're something of an idiot?  Sure Philip, says he's creating something that nobody has done before but he also claims he's doing it with pretty well-developed technologies.
Quote
I know I have more patience than many people but some around here act like a little kid having a tantrum that he didn't get his ice cream fast enough.
Wow that was one of the most arrogant statements in this thread...and considering you're up against enormously arrogant people like Bruce_TPU and Philip and lumen that takes some skill.  Firstly we're not irritated at the delay.  We think the delay means something.  Learn to read.
Quote
I keep looking at all the new things that come along and prefer to encourage inventors rather than stifle them with a lot of negative statements
...but without any limits at all?  Should we continue encouraging every person all the time in every endevour?  Isn't that a bit stupid?
Quote
So I still have a hard time understanding why it is people want to bash him every way to Sunday unless they have some agenda.
So again we are at the "hard time understanding" - same problem.  It's a stupid way to look at a problem. 
Quote
I began to understand how the very nature of our current 'science' seems to make new invention or discovery of anything a nearly impossible nightmarish maze of BS intent on stifling anything that might challenge a major or even minor established 'theory'.
Example please.
Quote
So now I do all I can to encourage anything that has not been solidly proven false
So what is required for "solidly proven false"?
Quote
  I just had another theory spring to mind as to why some are so impatient
Except you're theory about impatience is wrong.
Quote
In a year Intel is making motherboards and CPU's with an internal power supply which never needs to be plugged into an outside energy source - NEVER.  It even provides power for the hard drives - a self running computer that never needs to be plugged in - not even for charging.   What will happen to Intel stock?     ;)
So I'm pointing out some logical consequences of Philips actions (if you want to assume that Quenco works and Philip is not lying) and that means I have to be making some money off some invisible list of licencees?

As stated before I don't like labels like "skeptic" I just think that either you have to believe everything or not everything.  If the latter you need a set of criteria that is acted on consistently. Most people here who aren't seriously questioning Philip appear to have ridiculous gaps in this respect.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 27, 2012, 03:39:19 PM
Yawn.  When you're cornered you change the subject.  How original.  Why not just admit you were wrong? or confused...I mean you seemed to have some problem with what I was typing but you couldn't - other than using strawmen - come up with an argument.  Now you seem to realize that I was right but you just want to be a jerk about it.  Way to seize the moral high-ground there.Why don't you read what I've already posted?  By the by "proof" isn't a very good term since it's rather hugely ambiguous.  I prefer talking about evidence.

I have seen you talk nothing of the scientific concepts, only about people and your hopes of their failure.
Like your recent post, nothing new, nothing intellectual, nothing mathematical, nothing scientific, only garbage talk of other people.

So when you say you "prefer to talk about evidence" then why don't you?

It's obvious you know nothing about Philips work and stick only to calling him a failure. Why don't you post some of your data on the tests you ran showing us all where he is wrong?

Lets see if you can write a post about Philip's work, and not about Philip.

It looks like all your contributions to this channel are just dribble about other people. Do you need to make others look bad for you to look better because you have no self esteem?

The principals involved in Philip's quenco are obviously so far above you that you can resort to only attacks to Philip and not his work theory.

So we all feel bad for you, but stamping your feet and pointing at others won't make anything better.

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 28, 2012, 04:10:49 AM
I have seen you talk nothing of the scientific concepts,
That's nice but also irrelevant.  See the subject of the sentence you are responding to here was, in case you didn't notice "what *I* wrote".  But here you are talking about what you've seen of my writings.  Which simply isn't relevant.  Now if you read everything I've posted it would be different but you haven't or at least not with very much attention to detail.
Quote
Like your recent post, nothing new, nothing intellectual, nothing mathematical, nothing scientific, only garbage talk of other people.
You mean the post where I'm responding to someone who doesn't believe a post is a unit of measure?  IIRC the person who I was responding to has done very little other than make silly little backbiting comments.  Is that the kind of behavior you're against?  You have a funny way of showing it. :)

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So when you say you "prefer to talk about evidence" then why don't you?
So when you read a sentence do you actually take a moment to understand it's context or do you just dive in and start thinking up silly ways to interpret it?  You've misunderstood my usage of "prefer" I'm saying that the term "proof" and "prove" which you are in love with are too vague for useful conversation.  You should talk about "evidence" instead of "proof".
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It's obvious you know nothing about Philips work and stick only to calling him a failure.
If you read, and I get that perhaps that wasn't emphasized in your education as much as it should have for the purposes of conversing with me you'll see that I'm talking about Philip's failure to deliver on his promises.  He promised multiple times to have working product and each time he makes some excuse and moves the goalposts.  Regardless of how much you like virtually felating Philip this is a pretty normal usage of the term - failure.  Philip has failed to deliver 3-5 times this year (more depending on how you count).
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Lets see if you can write a post about Philip's work, and not about Philip.
Sorry but the term "work", to me anyway implies something that Philip has actually *done*.   While it's certainly plausible that he has destroyed some tubes and it's possible he's spending some of his cash renting out space from Stanford (hope he got the Industry Affiliate rate).  There is little work to be shown.

That said  I have made a couple of observations about Philips assertions about his alleged invention, as well as corrected some of his wrong ideas (which he then added to his Quenco page) and have pointed out how Philip doesn't even make a useful argument against at least one of my points.

However sadly those statements weren't nearly as popular with people here as my talk about Philip's timelines.  Perhaps those arguments allowed people here to more easily gibber about "patience" or demand that Philip is owed by people who post here some adherence to some code of behavior yet he himself owes people here nothing.   I don't know but if your question is why are most of my posts about Philip and not about some of the other things I've discussed...well to see the answer to that you only need look in a mirror.
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It looks like all your contributions to this channel are just dribble about other people. Do you need to make others look bad for you to look better because you have no self esteem?
It's worth pointing out how your post here is a good example of what you're complaining about.  For most of it you're just making empty criticism of me.  You've become that which you decry... congratulations?!
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The principals involved in Philip's quenco are obviously so far above you that you can resort to only attacks to Philip and not his work theory.
From what I've seen what Philip has posted on the Quenco site is pretty much fluff.  He begs the important question about how 2LOT is violated.  You even agreed on that point if you recall. There's little to argue with there because there's little there. 
Quote
So we all feel bad for you, but stamping your feet and pointing at others won't make anything better.
No you're probably lying here.  You don't feel sorry for me, you're angry at me.  Your passive-aggressive tantrum is only slightly less obvious than renting out a billboard.

I've stated my points coolly and logically both about Philip's schedule misses and how that kind of impugns his character and his ability to manage.  I've also brought up a couple of technical issues.  If you didn't want to comment that's cool.  If you do now (perhaps because you've been so thoroughly trounced with the "a post isnt' a unit" nonsense) then you could just go back and read.  Then you can feign recollection and use it as a springboard or a disparaging comment: i.e. "Oh *that* I wouldn't really call that a *scientific* comment".   Perhaps that will salve your ego enough so you can stop acting like an infant.  e.g. Trying to find a poor way to interpret one of my posts so you can use some moldy computer joke.   You know, things like that. :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 28, 2012, 05:17:36 AM
Ok....whatever you say. No tech, your no value to me. I can find anyone off the street to talk about other people.
If you talk of concepts or ideas or theory, we talk to high class people.
If you talk of money and finances and investments, we talk to middle class.
People who talk about other people, are trying to pull themselves up or drag others down. (bottom feeders either way)
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 28, 2012, 10:15:06 AM
Ok....whatever you say. No tech, your no value to me. I can find anyone off the street to talk about other people.
If you talk of concepts or ideas or theory, we talk to high class people.
If you talk of money and finances and investments, we talk to middle class.
People who talk about other people, are trying to pull themselves up or drag others down. (bottom feeders either way)

He has been asking questions throughout, it was only (really) you who decided to start an argument!
I gave up asking questions when it was clear that nobody could really answer them - sarkaizen has some good questions, why not 'save face' and respond with answers?!

I guess even if the major questions cannot be answered (and they haven't been) then at least you are keeping this thread at the top of the list!!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 28, 2012, 04:00:23 PM
Ok....whatever you say. No tech, your no value to me.
I suspect that this is just some face-saving way to excuse yourself from the discussion.  Again if you READ MY POSTS you'll see that I do discuss more than people but people like YOU don't want to talk about those things.  Was my metaphor (taken unabashedly from V for Vendetta) about looking in the mirror too difficult?

If you're being honest here, which is doubtful then what could I possibly discuss with someone who doesn't know how to read?  At least in this scenario, perhaps if we met in person I could use visual aids or perhaps put on a little play or puppet show to explain things to you.  Otherwise we are at an impasse.

Quote
If you talk of concepts or ideas or theory, we talk to high class people.
If you talk of money and finances and investments, we talk to middle class.
People who talk about other people, are trying to pull themselves up or drag others down. (bottom feeders either way)
Drastic oversimplifications are handy aren't they?  With them you don't need to actually intellectually engage on an issue. You can just look at a list of a few simple rules and then POP your little brain need no longer worry about nagging questions.

Considering that all three of your rules are an example of someone talking about People - doesn't that mean you're - by your own logic a bottom feeder?  Just sayin'
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 28, 2012, 07:25:03 PM
Hi Lumen,
Trying to talk to Sarkeizen is like spitting in the wind.  It is best to ignore.  He is overly impressed with himself and will not listen.  I have stopped reading his posts.  Let's all just move the conversation without him, and if he responds, ignore said response. 
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 28, 2012, 08:07:49 PM
He has been asking questions throughout, it was only (really) you who decided to start an argument!
I gave up asking questions when it was clear that nobody could really answer them - sarkaizen has some good questions, why not 'save face' and respond with answers?!

I guess even if the major questions cannot be answered (and they haven't been) then at least you are keeping this thread at the top of the list!!

Yes, you are correct! It always takes two to argue.

With that I must say : Sarkeizen my friend, all we do is argue anymore, So I'm leaving you.
 :)

Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 28, 2012, 08:08:47 PM
Hi Lumen,
Trying to talk to Sarkeizen is like spitting in the wind.  It is best to ignore.  He is overly impressed with himself and will not listen.  I have stopped reading his posts.  Let's all just move the conversation without him, and if he responds, ignore said response. 
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce

There is no conversation, just trolls having a pop at people with sensible questions!
This whole rant appears to have been started by people asking technical questions and discussing doubt about the whole quenco principle!

How about rewinding a few posts and trying to answer some questions?!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 28, 2012, 08:27:12 PM
Dude, I've made two points.  One Philip agrees with - that he sucks at management - which of course should imply something about his next deadline and the other he's been unwilling or unable to formulate an answer to - which was that he's violating information theory (and probably computational complexity theory)Why not just talk about all of the shortcomings of Philip and his hypothetical device?   Unless you have an agenda for keeping free thought down!  Philip doesn't even have a single Quenco - it's hard to call this a technology in that sense.

OK, Rewind:
Do you see any real questions in there?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 28, 2012, 08:41:46 PM
OK, Rewind:
Do you see any real questions in there?

Ok, a simple one which I can't get my head around too well (although the answer could be quite simple)!:
How does I2R apply to quenco as a lossy system?
For example, with the 1cm^3, how does the quenco not go into thermal runaway if its powered by heat?
And if its powered by heat but it cools as it runs - where is the break even point where it fails to operate?!

It's looking more like a messed-up peltier to me with no practical method of maintaining a differential across it (cheaply and space efficiently).

As I implied, maybe I am missing something, if you can let me know the answers that would be awesome.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 28, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
Ok, a simple one which I can't get my head around too well (although the answer could be quite simple)!:
How does I2R apply to quenco as a lossy system?
For example, with the 1cm^3, how does the quenco not go into thermal runaway if its powered by heat?
And if its powered by heat but it cools as it runs - where is the break even point where it fails to operate?!

It's looking more like a messed-up peltier to me with no practical method of maintaining a differential across it (cheaply and space efficiently).

As I implied, maybe I am missing something, if you can let me know the answers that would be awesome.

FYI, I am not disputing tunneling electrons (everyone knows that's proven) - I am just unsure how this can be a practical source of power. I am considering a system rather than quenco in isolation (which tbh could do whatever it likes but if its not possible to consume usable power from it then it falls flat on its ars#).
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 28, 2012, 10:31:09 PM
Ok, a simple one which I can't get my head around too well (although the answer could be quite simple)!:
How does I2R apply to quenco as a lossy system?
For example, with the 1cm^3, how does the quenco not go into thermal runaway if its powered by heat?
And if its powered by heat but it cools as it runs - where is the break even point where it fails to operate?!

It's looking more like a messed-up peltier to me with no practical method of maintaining a differential across it (cheaply and space efficiently).

As I implied, maybe I am missing something, if you can let me know the answers that would be awesome.

I thought the same thing, with low voltage output and high current, there is going to be a lot of heat that in turn would produce more current.

Additional layers to increase the voltage would help solve much of the local heating but when viewed correctly, there is no real problem.

Suppose you have a low voltage quenco between two heat sinks and only a heavy copper wire shorting the circuit.
The ambient heat will provide electron flow which in turn produces heat in the wire and in the heat sink. This heat originally was consumed from the environment inside the box and serves to help cool the wire and heat sink which reduces the output. However nothing actually changed since the heat produced is indeed the same heat that was consumed.

The process in this case may trap some of the initial heat from the environment inside the box in a loop within the heat sinks and wire, but when disconnected the heat would again balance out to starting conditions.

If you had two boxes, one with the quenco and heatsink and the other with the shorting wire, then the heat form the quenco would accumulate in the other box and the quenco box would become colder until infinity, except the process would become slower and slower as it cools.

The reason is that eventually in the colder environment the random encounters between electrons will less often occur that will energize any single electron with enough energy to tunnel the barrier. This is where a thinner barrier will allow the device to operate to a lower temperature, but will also lower the working voltage of each layer.

Of course, Theory is the word at this time.


Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 29, 2012, 12:04:22 AM
I thought the same thing, with low voltage output and high current, there is going to be a lot of heat that in turn would produce more current.

Additional layers to increase the voltage would help solve much of the local heating but when viewed correctly, there is no real problem.

Suppose you have a low voltage quenco between two heat sinks and only a heavy copper wire shorting the circuit.
The ambient heat will provide electron flow which in turn produces heat in the wire and in the heat sink. This heat originally was consumed from the environment inside the box and serves to help cool the wire and heat sink which reduces the output. However nothing actually changed since the heat produced is indeed the same heat that was consumed.

The process in this case may trap some of the initial heat from the environment inside the box in a loop within the heat sinks and wire, but when disconnected the heat would again balance out to starting conditions.

If you had two boxes, one with the quenco and heatsink and the other with the shorting wire, then the heat form the quenco would accumulate in the other box and the quenco box would become colder until infinity, except the process would become slower and slower as it cools.

The reason is that eventually in the colder environment the random encounters between electrons will less often occur that will energize any single electron with enough energy to tunnel the barrier. This is where a thinner barrier will allow the device to operate to a lower temperature, but will also lower the working voltage of each layer.

Of course, Theory is the word at this time.

I was thinking more about the interface between the shorting wire and the quenco itself being a high (ish) resistance...and local to the quenco. What you said makes sense but I will need to digest the info a bit more!

I haven't done the math but for the cubic cm it looks like there will be many many thousands of watts dissipated from the junction - that's not ideal.

Cracking a few nm of material between two lumps of metal will become quite easy I think, once the differential between the two sides increases.

Let me digest a bit more.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 29, 2012, 01:32:34 AM
I was thinking more about the interface between the shorting wire and the quenco itself being a high (ish) resistance...and local to the quenco. What you said makes sense but I will need to digest the info a bit more!

I haven't done the math but for the cubic cm it looks like there will be many many thousands of watts dissipated from the junction - that's not ideal.

Cracking a few nm of material between two lumps of metal will become quite easy I think, once the differential between the two sides increases.

Let me digest a bit more.

There is no temperature differential between the two sides. The quenco converts from an isothermal environment.

I do think because the electrons move from one side to the other that it will cause it's own differential and start to cool one side then loose efficiency.
The heat sinks from each side would need to be thermally connected and electrically isolated to maintain the same temperature on each side of the chip as close as possible.

I did some heat modeling on this and if you try to pull 5000W across 1 square centimeter area, there is a large temperature difference even in a solid copper heatsink.

Copper is just not conductive enough to supply ambient temperatures without the chip being 30F to 50F cooler even when trapped in solid copper blocks.
 If the electrical junction did induce heat, at least the chip would be running in a more efficient temperature range.
 
 
 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 29, 2012, 04:13:56 AM
Trying to talk to Sarkeizen is like spitting in the wind.  It is best to ignore.  He is overly impressed with himself and will not listen.
Bruce....seriously?  When have you offered anything but "You must act like X around Philip" or "You are a troll and you better stop talking".  If you want people to listen to you.  You actually need to talk about something.  Just telling people how they should talk seems to get you ignored by just about everyone other than me...and now you're begging for attention from others.
Quote
I have stopped reading his posts.  Let's all just move the conversation without him, and if he responds, ignore said response. 

Because this forum is about communication and the sharing of ideas unless you don't like them then Bruce suggests you stick your fingers in your ears.   Yes, I can see how that's the grown-up thing to do.  Thanks Bruce.
Yes, you are correct! It always takes two to argue.

With that I must say : Sarkeizen my friend, all we do is argue anymore, So I'm leaving you.
 :)
Arguing is actually pretty useful.  If you could only be less vapid about it.

OK, Rewind:
Do you see any real questions in there?
Yeah because looking at a post which just references a couple of things I talked about earlier is the best way to evaluate the arguments you previously ignored...and then went on to argue about other things - like how posts are not a unit. :)

...oh and just a point of clarity.  You're essentially saying that an engineer of 30 years can't see anything even in that reference that might challenge Quenco?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 29, 2012, 09:49:38 PM

There is no temperature differential between the two sides. The quenco converts from an isothermal environment.

I do think because the electrons move from one side to the other that it will cause it's own differential and start to cool one side then loose efficiency.
The heat sinks from each side would need to be thermally connected and electrically isolated to maintain the same temperature on each side of the chip as close as possible.

I did some heat modeling on this and if you try to pull 5000W across 1 square centimeter area, there is a large temperature difference even in a solid copper heatsink.

Copper is just not conductive enough to supply ambient temperatures without the chip being 30F to 50F cooler even when trapped in solid copper blocks.
 If the electrical junction did induce heat, at least the chip would be running in a more efficient temperature range.

Thanks for that, useful.
With the thermal modelling did you discover a point which determines the max power available given an infinitely large heatsink?
Also, is there any dissipation in the barrier and what's the temp difference on either side of the barrier - assuming the quoted figures for the 1cm^3?

Many thanks
Mbm
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 30, 2012, 02:02:17 AM
So here's a question for you MBM.  Let me know what you think...

Suppose you can prove that no algorithm can exist to accomplish something.  Do you believe that means that no device can be built to accomplish the same goal?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: doublehelix on December 30, 2012, 02:40:01 AM
So here's a question for you MBM.  Let me know what you think...

Suppose you can prove that no algorithm can exist to accomplish something.  Do you believe that means that no device can be built to accomplish the same goal?

I think that is the most stupid pointless question you have asked so far, and you do set an amazingly high standard in that respect.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 30, 2012, 02:58:49 AM
I think that is the most stupid pointless question you have asked so far, and you do set an amazingly high standard in that respect.
Because there couldn't possibly be anything about this subject that you don't understand.  Right?
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: lumen on December 30, 2012, 04:02:39 AM
Thanks for that, useful.
With the thermal modelling did you discover a point which determines the max power available given an infinitely large heatsink?
Also, is there any dissipation in the barrier and what's the temp difference on either side of the barrier - assuming the quoted figures for the 1cm^3?

Many thanks
Mbm

The goal when I started was to see if it was possible to extract a good amount of power and not go below the freezing point so the heat sink would not ice up.
Extracting about 500W over the cm2 would lower the contact point to about 40F even if the rest of the heat sink was near ambient temp of 70F so at 60F ambient, you could reach freezing at the contact point.

The solution was to slice the cm2 chip into 20 parts, each one .5mm x 1cm,  and place them over a large area. This provided a large periphery area that allowed the heat to flow into the chips easier.

With the sliced chip 5000W could be drawn with about the same 30F drop.

So there are methods to increase the thermal input even with the limited conduction of copper heat sinks.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: forcefield on December 30, 2012, 07:02:08 AM
Suppose you can prove that no algorithm can exist to accomplish something.  Do you believe that means that no device can be built to accomplish the same goal?

It might be possible to build a device that can't be modeled with an algorithm.  But, I think it might also be verging on Creation itself.  (In the beginning, it seems that there must have either been something, or there must have been nothing.  If there was something, where did it come from?  If there was nothing, then how did something come from that?)  Is there an algorithm that models Creation?

I don't believe that Quenco can work.  But, if it does, I think the ramifications are deeper than we can begin to imagine.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 30, 2012, 11:17:17 AM
So here's a question for you MBM.  Let me know what you think...

Suppose you can prove that no algorithm can exist to accomplish something.  Do you believe that means that no device can be built to accomplish the same goal?

If you could be sure of there being no algo possible then it would stand to reason that the device would not be possible.

I ain't sure if there is an algo for Quenco as a 'system' but there are algo's for bits of it.

From my point of view it all appears unlikely to become reality although parts appear to be proven......kind of like time travel and other weird stuff are proven on paper but there is no way to practically implement it.

Still interesting to talk about but ultimately very unlikely to appear in store soon!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 31, 2012, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: forcefield
It might be possible to build a device that can't be modeled with an algorithm.  But, I think it might also be verging on Creation itself.
Firstly I'll just clarify something.  What I'm talking about is a device that does something for which it can be proved that no algorithm exists.  For example you can prove that there is no deterministic general algorithm to determine if a computer program will end.

If you think you could build such a device then you should ask yourself: "What would such a device be constructed with?" if it is made from parts whose action is well understood (that is the input states and corresponding output states are known) within the context of the device.  Then you could write an algorithm which would emulate how these components operate in the device.  (e.g. If your device used two gears fixed to two different axels, you could replace the gears with a human following an algorithm.  The human would observe one axle turning and turn the other axle in the same proportion that the gears would have).  So the only kinds of components you can't emulate are ones where the action is not well understood within the context of the device.  In other words given an expected input, you don't necessarily know the outputs.  Such a machine could not produce a deterministic result.
Quote from: MadeByMonkeys
If you could be sure of there being no algo possible then it would stand to reason that the device would not be possible.

I ain't sure if there is an algo for Quenco as a 'system' but there are algo's for bits of it.
So the next question to ask yourself is:  "Is Quenco a Maxwell's Demon machine?" - that is "Does it reduce entropy in an isothermal environment?"
Quote from: MadeByMonkeys
kind of like time travel and other weird stuff are proven on paper but there is no way to practically implement it.
Like a Tippler Cylinder?  IMHO things like that are more like saying "If you could break physical law in one respect, you can break it in another".
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 31, 2012, 09:42:25 AM
Firstly I'll just clarify something.  What I'm talking about is a device that does something for which it can be proved that no algorithm exists.  For example you can prove that there is no deterministic general algorithm to determine if a computer program will end.

If you think you could build such a device then you should ask yourself: "What would such a device be constructed with?" if it is made from parts whose action is well understood (that is the input states and corresponding output states are known) within the context of the device.  Then you could write an algorithm which would emulate how these components operate in the device.  (e.g. If your device used two gears fixed to two different axels, you could replace the gears with a human following an algorithm.  The human would observe one axle turning and turn the other axle in the same proportion that the gears would have).  So the only kinds of components you can't emulate are ones where the action is not well understood within the context of the device.  In other words given an expected input, you don't necessarily know the outputs.  Such a machine could not produce a deterministic result.So the next question to ask yourself is:  "Is Quenco a Maxwell's Demon machine?" - that is "Does it reduce entropy in an isothermal environment?"Like a Tippler Cylinder?  IMHO things like that are more like saying "If you could break physical law in one respect, you can break it in another".

As I have said, I don't believe it will be the power source of the future but I don't understand the QM's of it - my thoughts about its success are based on stuff I have heard on this forum and others. I do know a little about its practicalities as a system and getting any power out of it - that seems like a challenge.

I just don't get the power density and how it's possible other than on paper.

Better ask an expert (I have and it's not going to work - I should ask them to summarise in a few paragraphs because!) :)
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on December 31, 2012, 10:11:48 AM
Only a few hours of 2012 left here in Australia.


So let me be the first on this forum to wish you all a Happy New Year.


Having a few beers here so forgive me if this is all a bit messed up.

@MBM, Unless you think I am a liar let me tell you that your expert friend is no expert and that we have now a lot of replications of the proof of concept experiment which unequivocally violates the Kelvin interpretation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Seems that the only debate going on here is to label my delivery date slippage as some form of scientific proof in the negative. Why you bother telling people that Quenco cannot work when you admit you are no expert mystifies me.


Attacks on me personally are so boring that they really do not matter any more (they did a year ago), all that does is the reality that we have working sebithenco devices in many independent hands (so I know I did not fool myself), and that we will have commercial Quenco tiles for distribution in February, touch wood.


One simple quick technical observation, it is kW/cm2 not cm3. The thinness of stacked Quenco means the thermal flux is high, if it were cm thick it would not support more than a few hundred Watts per cm2. The um scale thinness of a 400 layers Quenco means that there will not be any significant Delta T across the device thickness.


I understand that there may be a few reports issued by independents in January of the violation experiment, naturally that is not under my control though I can report that I have been sent confirmation of the actual experiments run by professionals, this now, including a South American friend who was ignored, is the 5th replication of the original sebithenco experiment and all have fully supported my own results.


This news should set the World abuzz but I am almost sure it will just raise the ire of the sceptics who are more interested in attacking me than doing  the experiment or debating the science. Of course for me it matters not one iota for the date in history that changes the World view on energy is when we despatch from Stanford to our licensees the actual Quenco cm2 tiles.


As soon as there is a release of the independent Physicists report I will post it on

 www.quentron.com (http://www.quentron.com)

Back to why I logged on

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL


Phil H
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: ramset on December 31, 2012, 10:43:02 AM
Phillip
What an amazing time to be alive on planet earth,A true Benchmark moment.
I am glad your perspective has shifted to "enjoy"!
Have a wonderful new year.
 
Chet
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: Madebymonkeys on December 31, 2012, 10:46:53 AM
Only a few hours of 2012 left here in Australia.


So let me be the first on this forum to wish you all a Happy New Year.


Having a few beers here so forgive me if this is all a bit messed up.

@MBM, Unless you think I am a liar let me tell you that your expert friend is no expert and that we have now a lot of replications of the proof of concept experiment which unequivocally violates the Kelvin interpretation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Seems that the only debate going on here is to label my delivery date slippage as some form of scientific proof in the negative. Why you bother telling people that Quenco cannot work when you admit you are no expert mystifies me.


Attacks on me personally are so boring that they really do not matter any more (they did a year ago), all that does is the reality that we have working sebithenco devices in many independent hands (so I know I did not fool myself), and that we will have commercial Quenco tiles for distribution in February, touch wood.


One simple quick technical observation, it is kW/cm2 not cm3. The thinness of stacked Quenco means the thermal flux is high, if it were cm thick it would not support more than a few hundred Watts per cm2. The um scale thinness of a 400 layers Quenco means that there will not be any significant Delta T across the device thickness.


I understand that there may be a few reports issued by independents in January of the violation experiment, naturally that is not under my control though I can report that I have been sent confirmation of the actual experiments run by professionals, this now, including a South American friend who was ignored, is the 5th replication of the original sebithenco experiment and all have fully supported my own results.


This news should set the World abuzz but I am almost sure it will just raise the ire of the sceptics who are more interested in attacking me than doing  the experiment or debating the science. Of course for me it matters not one iota for the date in history that changes the World view on energy is when we despatch from Stanford to our licensees the actual Quenco cm2 tiles.


As soon as there is a release of the independent Physicists report I will post it on

 www.quentron.com (http://www.quentron.com)

Back to why I logged on

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL


Phil H

Thanks for the update.
My words are all my opinion - it's what forums are all about.
I'm looking forward (really) to being made to look a fool in February (2013) - it doesn't bother me one iota either!

Would it be possible to post some pics of the chips so far, speaks a thousand words so they say?

Happy new year....shortly!
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: MileHigh on December 31, 2012, 10:53:11 AM
Philip:

Quote
I understand that there may be a few reports issued by independents in January of the violation experiment, naturally that is not under my control though I can report that I have been sent confirmation of the actual experiments run by professionals, this now, including a South American friend who was ignored, is the 5th replication of the original sebithenco experiment and all have fully supported my own results.

I am assuming that you are referring to the OU poster Elisha when you make reference to the "South American friend."

Just the fact that you take Elisha's "experiment" seriously hurts your credibility immensely.

Elisha took a toaster-oven and used it to bake a TV tube to several hundred degrees Celsius.  If you tried to tell any scientist that that was an isothermal environment they would laugh in your face.

So, that leaves you with just one option as far as I am concerned.  You have to produce a working commercial device that outputs tens of watts (remember you said that you were going to power an iPad with it?) in February.

If you don't produce a working device in February then your saga will continue on for who knows how long.

MileHigh
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: broli on December 31, 2012, 10:57:32 AM
February seems to becoming an interesting month as quite a few things are showing their heads then. Here's another contender in the "environment heat to electricity" department:

Quote
A Singapore company developed a poly-crystal technology that harnesses environmental heat to provide continuous power in the range of 3 cents per kilowatt-hour.

In 2005, the scientists of NRGLab discovered the technology for generating energy from environmental heat. From that moment, NRGLab scientists realized every person on Earth would have the right to at least 1 kw of electricity per hour, 24/7. Low-cost electricity is now affordable for everyone, using the energy generated by NRGLab technology. We are now capable of producing environmentally friendly generators (SH boxes), which are easily scalable from 1 watt to 200kw per unit.

http://www.nrglab.asia/auctions.html (http://www.nrglab.asia/auctions.html)

Happy new year, and may it be the year free energy becomes widely spread.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: trim12 on December 31, 2012, 02:23:36 PM
When Phil says experts have tested his Sebithenco device he means experts and not in a toaster either.

@Phil have a great time.

To the Forum have a happy healthy and exciting year.
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: e2matrix on December 31, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
Thanks again for the update Phil.   Have a Happy and Success filled New Year! 
Title: Re: quentron.com
Post by: sarkeizen on December 31, 2012, 07:41:55 PM
As I have said, I don't believe it will be the power source of the future but I don't understand the QM's of it - my thoughts about its success are based on stuff I have heard on this forum and others. I do know a little about its practicalities as a system and getting any power out of it - that seems like a challenge.
Right, I was just trying to step you through another approach (It's interesting that now that I'm only writing questions lumen et al are pretty silent).  So again, do you think this qualifies as a Maxwell's Demon machine - does it (as described by Philip) reduce entropy in an isothermal environment (Philip appears to say "yes" to this as far as I can tell)

Quote from: Philip Hardcastle
Seems that the only debate going on here is to label my delivery date slippage as some form of scientific proof in the negative.