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Author Topic: Testing the TK Tar Baby  (Read 2019199 times)

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #570 on: April 22, 2012, 06:49:10 AM »
picowatt - with respect - there has been nothing that you have posted to me that has not been addressed respectfully.  If you can show me any evidence to the contrary then I'll attend to it.

So.  When you include my attitude with that of TK's again you're wrong.  I do NOT resort to malicious invective nor traducement.  And my comments are NOT slanderous. 

Rosemary

Rosemary,

I do not believe I mentioned "respectfully" (or disrespectfully) regarding my discussions with you.

Please reread my post.

PW


Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #571 on: April 22, 2012, 06:52:43 AM »

You don't need such high wattage for the CSR, I'll bet you could live with 4 to 8 half-watt carbons paralleled.

PW

No you couldn't.  Not at the current levels we measure.

Rosemary

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #572 on: April 22, 2012, 06:52:54 AM »
I have NEVER claimed to have non-inductive resistors.  Why would I bother?  We're not talking marginal values.  There's nothing that can't manage a generous error margin and STILL show the required evidence. 

Rosie Posie
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Wire wound ceramic power resistors. One hundred and ten nanoHenry. Is that each, or for the parallel stack of 4?

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #573 on: April 22, 2012, 07:00:37 AM »
Rosemary,

I do not believe I mentioned "respectfully" (or disrespectfully) regarding my discussions with you.

Please reread my post.

PW

Forum guidelines require nothing more than respect.  I am not obliged to answer your questions.  Nor will I.  Not until I see the required professionalism and impartiality associated with this science.  And not until I see respect for both me and for our work.  Both are lacking.  Which is a gross understatement of the fact.  And your own 'question' emphases have been based on erroneous assumptions - that having been addressed are then IGNORED.  One would, under normal circumstances acknowledge that error of 'assumption'.  I'm specifically referring to your very first question that dominated my own thread and that was then followed by 5 pages of pure calumny - 41 posts in one night - where you and TK et al - simply assumed that your 'emphasis' was correct.  It was not.

Rosemary

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #574 on: April 22, 2012, 07:06:47 AM »
TK,

I spent some time in the past trying to locate manufacturer data regarding a similarly packaged 10 watt resistor in a non-inductive design.  I found several manufacturers that claim to make non-inductive resistors in that package but they do not seem to be "off the shelf" , nor was I able to locate any data sheets regarding them.  Seems I always ran into "contact the manufacturer".

PW

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #575 on: April 22, 2012, 07:06:49 AM »
"I have NEVER claimed to have non-inductive resistors.  Why would I bother?  We're not talking marginal values.  There's nothing that can't manage a generous error margin and STILL show the required evidence.  "

That's right, none of the objections apply to YOU, they only apply to ME.

The sign of my wattage values is the same as yours. The shape of my power curve is the same as yours. If objections about impedance and reactance and inductance apply to ME, then they apply to YOU as well. If I correct errors immediately... if indeed they are errors under the circumstances... then so should YOU. If inductances are helpful for YOU as you claim in your paper then they are helpful for ME as well. You cannot apply your usual double standard here and get away with it, poser.

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #576 on: April 22, 2012, 07:13:30 AM »
TK,

I spent some time in the past trying to locate manufacturer data regarding a similarly packaged 10 watt resistor in a non-inductive design.  I found several manufacturers that claim to make non-inductive resistors in that package but they do not seem to be "off the shelf" , nor was I able to locate any data sheets regarding them.  Seems I always ran into "contact the manufacturer".

PW

Well, among all the noise above we appear to have a clear statement that she did NOT use special non-inductive resistors. 
So I still don't understand that 110 nH listing, because it certainly doesn't jive with my measurements of my OTS resistors.
I have an opinion about that number, though, and until I'm shown otherwise I'll just have to believe in my opinion.

But we are also assured that it doesn't matter in the least. So one wonders why MY inductance matters, if hers doesn't.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #577 on: April 22, 2012, 07:18:02 AM »
"I have NEVER claimed to have non-inductive resistors.  Why would I bother?  We're not talking marginal values.  There's nothing that can't manage a generous error margin and STILL show the required evidence.  "

That's right, none of the objections apply to YOU, they only apply to ME.

The sign of my wattage values is the same as yours. The shape of my power curve is the same as yours. If objections about impedance and reactance and inductance apply to ME, then they apply to YOU as well. If I correct errors immediately... if indeed they are errors under the circumstances... then so should YOU. If inductances are helpful for YOU as you claim in your paper then they are helpful for ME as well. You cannot apply your usual double standard here and get away with it, poser.

Since we KNOW that you're attempting to throw considerable levels of doubt on our work - I would think it would be advisable to present your own work in a reasonably realistic way.  100 watts or thereby is a HUGE value.  Utterly unrealistic.  I suspect you were hoping that no-one would notice.  Or you had not yourself noticed.  Or that it would be discounted precisely because of it's excess.  In any eventuality - notwithstanding - it was intended for 'spin'.  Hardly a professional and considered 'fact'.   And then you follow this us with that clumsy attempt at sarcasm where you ask 'Can I now have my prize?'  Are you capable of understating anything at all?  Are you that one dimensional?

Rosie Pose

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #578 on: April 22, 2012, 07:21:10 AM »
But we are also assured that it doesn't matter in the least. So one wonders why MY inductance matters, if hers doesn't.

It doesn't matter.  Not in the least.  What matters is that you did not refer to it's need - to be calculated into that wattage value that you presented with such an inappropriate flourish.  That's where the 'spin' comes in.  And if there's been some 'noise' as you put - since then - it's served its purpose.  You clearly are NOT investigating anything at all.  You're trying to present 'gross' evidence of a subtle principle that entirely eludes you.  Even now.

Rosie Pose

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #579 on: April 22, 2012, 07:21:24 AM »
Respect this:

Quote
NOW.  Let's look at your 'self-runner' demands.  We have never recharged those batteries - with one exception.  Two caught fire and BOTH were fully recharged.  We've had those batteries since January 2010.  We've been running them since August 2010.  I've now FINALLY checked their rated capacities.  They're 40 ampere hours each.  We've used 6 of them continually since that time.  According to this rating they are each able, theoretically to dissipate 12 volts x 40 amps x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 1 hour x 6 batteries.  That gives a work potential - a total potential output of 10 368 000 JOULES.

According to what has been carefully established it takes 4.18 Joules to raise 1 gram of water by 1 degree centigrade.  We've taken a little under 900 grams of water to 82 degrees centigrade.  We ran that test for 90 minutes.  Then we upped the frequency and took that water up a further 20 degrees to 104.  We ran that part of the test for 10 minutes.  Ambient was at 16.  Joules = 1 watt per second.  So.  Do the math.  4.18 x 900 grams x (82 - 16) 66 degrees C = 248 292 joules per second x 90 minutes of the test period = 22 342 280 joules.  Then ADD the last 10 minutes where the water was taken to boil and now you have 4.18 x 900 grams x (104 - 16) 88 degrees C = 331 156 joules per second x 10 minutes = 3 310 560 Joules.  Then add those two values 22 342 280 + 3 310 560 = 25.6 Million Joules.  All 5 batteries maximum potential output - available for work - is 10.3 Million Joules. In that test alone the battery outperformed its watt hour rating.  And that was just one test.  Now.  Over the 10 month period that those batteries have been running at various outputs - which, when added to the output on just this one test - then I think its safe to say that the evidence is conclusive.  Those batteries have outperformed. They are still at OVER 12 volts EACH.  They are all of them still FULLY CHARGED.

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #580 on: April 22, 2012, 07:23:32 AM »
Forum guidelines require nothing more than respect.  I am not obliged to answer your questions.  Nor will I.  Not until I see the required professionalism and impartiality associated with this science.  And not until I see respect for both me and for our work.  Both are lacking.  Which is a gross understatement of the fact.  And your own 'question' emphases have been based on erroneous assumptions - that having been addressed are then IGNORED.  One would, under normal circumstances acknowledge that error of 'assumption'.  I'm specifically referring to your very first question that dominated my own thread and that was then followed by 5 pages of pure calumny - 41 posts in one night - where you and TK et al - simply assumed that your 'emphasis' was correct.  It was not.

Rosemary

Rosemary,

The only answer given regarding that question was that I (and others) do not know how to read a 'scope.  Even using the somehow corrected readings you countered with (I believe it was +6 or so volts), Q1 should still have been turning on while it was indicated by the CSR that it was not.  So no, I do not feel you addressed that observation, you merely tried to "argue" it away.  I gladly admit when I am wrong, have you ever done so? 

In any event, in reading the post quoted above, I rest my case...

PW

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #581 on: April 22, 2012, 07:24:41 AM »
Respect this:

LOL TK.  That's exactly what I mean.  By the same token I could keep on keeping on about your own rather 'gross' inaccuracies.  Unlike you I have no such compelling need.  They speak for themselves.

At last.   I've had a laugh.  Thank you.
Rosie Posie

fuzzytomcat

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #582 on: April 22, 2012, 07:25:07 AM »
Hi TK,

On the modified replication of the Quantum COP>17 circuit everyone made a big stink about the carbon .25 ohm resistor I used and there was a discussion on the wire wound resistor type which gave much more inductance into the circuit you could actually see with a scope, especially with large 10 watt wire wound resistors.

That's why I ended up using a "Caddock" (MP-930) 30 watt .25 ohm that was 10nh and then no one complained what was used for measurement purposes with my modified experimental device.

But for a replication .... you use what was specified if available which you are doing or as close as possible, unfortunately even if it was designed improperly for the application intended.

Cheers,
Fuzzy
 ;)

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #583 on: April 22, 2012, 07:28:00 AM »
It doesn't matter.  Not in the least.  What matters is that you did not refer to it's need - to be calculated into that wattage value that you presented with such an inappropriate flourish.  That's where the 'spin' comes in.  And if there's been some 'noise' as you put - since then - it's served its purpose.  You clearly are NOT investigating anything at all.  You're trying to present 'gross' evidence of a subtle principle that entirely eludes you.  Even now.

Rosie Pose

Show us where you ever referred to the "need" in your papers. The only passage is the one I've already quoted, and there is no indication anywhere that you did anything other than what I did.Especially in the shot below, where your "mean power" is very close to my ORIGINAL calculation.... which might not be an "error" at all.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #584 on: April 22, 2012, 07:32:03 AM »
Rosemary,

The only answer given regarding that question was that I (and others) do not know how to read a 'scope.  Even using the somehow corrected readings you countered with (I believe it was +6 or so volts), Q1 should still have been turning on while it was indicated by the CSR that it was not.  So no, I do not feel you addressed that observation, you merely tried to "argue" it away.  I gladly admit when I am wrong, have you ever done so? 

In any event, in reading the post quoted above, I rest my case...

PW

LOL  Again.  INDEED.  I ALWAYS admit when I'm wrong.  Ask MileHigh.  I take great pride in my readiness to do so.  And where have you admitted error?  I explained that you need to factor in values related to that zero crossing line that is appropriate to an AC value further qualified by the signal generator's offset. 

TK is still referring to the 12V peak of that signal.  And you have never acknowledged that the value needs to be adjusted by factors related to the coupling.  There is NOTHING represented in that value that is INCORRECT.  However,  what I have subsequently learned is that I could have independently adjusted that coupling on Channel 3 to an AC value.  I will show you ALL in our demonstrations.  I'm still trying to find the correct forum for that.

Rosie Pose.