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Author Topic: Testing the TK Tar Baby  (Read 2013405 times)

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #585 on: April 22, 2012, 07:32:09 AM »
LOL TK.  That's exactly what I mean.  By the same token I could keep on keeping on about your own rather 'gross' inaccuracies.  Unlike you I have no such compelling need.  They speak for themselves.

At last.   I've had a laugh.  Thank you.
Rosie Posie
You've seen what I do when I'm shown a "mistake". What do you do? You STILL have not posted a correction to that howler above and your conclusion, since the math is wrong, is WRONG. Where is your correction and retraction?

You do not even understand how you went wrong, so you CANNOT post a correct calculation.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #586 on: April 22, 2012, 07:35:24 AM »
You've seen what I do when I'm shown a "mistake". What do you do? You STILL have not posted a correction to that howler above and your conclusion, since the math is wrong, is WRONG. Where is your correction and retraction?

You do not even understand how you went wrong, so you CANNOT post a correct calculation.

My dear TK.  If you need to pretend that there's been no retraction I fully understand why.  Otherwise you will not be able to refer to this again and again.  But don't let me stop you.  It's comical.  I thoroughly enjoy seeing your reliance on this.  I'm sure as do our readers.  And as ever, it shows how 'thin' is your arsenal.  That's much required.

Rosie Pose

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #587 on: April 22, 2012, 07:37:01 AM »
Rosemary,

Did you ever get around to asking your team about .99's annotated 'scope shot or my observation regarding Q1?

And again, even by your own +6 volt reading, Q1 should have been indicating, via the CSR, that current was flowing.

PW

(Added the second sentence)

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #588 on: April 22, 2012, 07:42:03 AM »
Rosemary,

Did you ever get around to asking your team about .99's annotated 'scope shot or my observation regarding Q1?


PW

I did indeed.  My own scope has been sent for calibration certification.  It should have been returned last Thursday.  Now only to come next Thursday.  The guy who's working on it will explain all to me.  Then I'll let Poynty Point know.  And then he can let you know.

Rosemary

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #589 on: April 22, 2012, 07:54:51 AM »
My dear TK.  If you need to pretend that there's been no retraction I fully understand why.  Otherwise you will not be able to refer to this again and again.  But don't let me stop you.  It's comical.  I thoroughly enjoy seeing your reliance on this.  I'm sure as do our readers.  And as ever, it shows how 'thin' is your arsenal.  That's much required.

Rosie Pose
A simple link to your retraction would have been a much better... and valid... refutation. But you have made no correction or retraction. PROVE ME WRONG by linking to your post where you correct your calculation and retract your claim of exceeding the battery capacity with that one test.


Here's a post you made well AFTER you were shown your errors in the earlier 25.6 million Joule fiasco.

Quote
Let's say that our utility supply is feeding current into an element on an electric stove to a temperature of say 260 degrees centigrade.
 . Let's say that the element is has a resistance of 10 Ohms.  The source voltage is 220 volts.  The applied current is therefore 220/10 = 22 amps.
 . Therefore the wattage delivered is 22 amps * 220 volts - which, according to my calculator is 2 200 watts.
 . Now I assure you.  While that temperature over that resistor stays at that constant output of 260 degrees - there is no reduction in the rate of current flow.
 . In other words our utility supplier both measures and charges for us for a wattage that they compute at 2 200 watts
 . every second
 . for every minute
 . of each of those six hours
 . giving a staggering product of 2200 x 60 x 60 x 6 hours being 47 520 000 watts.

You don't  know the difference between a Joule and a Watt. That is a real problem.

Quote
Correctly it is one Joule per second - but since 1 watt = 1 Joule and since 1 Joule = 1 watt per second - then AS I'VE EXPLAINED EARLIER - the terms are INTERCHANGEABLE.

fuzzytomcat

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #590 on: April 22, 2012, 08:00:05 AM »
Hi Tk,

If you go by the device schematic in Rosemary's BLOG site and two other locations that she claims is the wrong "Qray" whatever configuration .....

The shunt resistors R4, R5, R6 and R7 are shown to each have a inductance of 275nh

Cheers,
Fuzzy
 ;)


TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #591 on: April 22, 2012, 08:01:48 AM »
I did indeed.  My own scope has been sent for calibration certification.  It should have been returned last Thursday.  Now only to come next Thursday.  The guy who's working on it will explain all to me.  Then I'll let Poynty Point know.  And then he can let you know.

Rosemary

And when he does explain it to you... he will become another one of your former friends who now are classed as idiots in your mind ... because he will tell you the same thing PW has been telling you and you will deny it and claim that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #592 on: April 22, 2012, 08:08:35 AM »
TK,

Your figures corrected for the CSR inductance are getting close to going the "other way".  The fact that the oscillation is not a pure sine at 1.5MHz, i.e., it contains a lot of  harmonics, that reactance value at 1.5MHz may not be accurate as well, and would still be too low regarding those harmonics.

You might try making a measurement using a non-inductive or less-inductive CSR for a comparison.

It is a shame that the manufacturer and part numbers are not listed in the papers.


PW




TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #593 on: April 22, 2012, 08:08:48 AM »
Hi Tk,

If you go by the device schematic in Rosemary's BLOG site and two other locations that she claims is the wrong "Qray" whatever configuration .....

The shunt resistors R4, R5, R6 and R7 are shown to each have a inductance of 275nh

Cheers,
Fuzzy
 ;)
And just where did those figures come from? That is a sim, right? Designed to mimic the behavior of the circuit?

4 resistors in parallel with 275 nH inductance each should total about 69 nH, isn't it?

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #594 on: April 22, 2012, 08:13:02 AM »
FTC,

Deleted post, brainfade, it's getting late!

PW

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #595 on: April 22, 2012, 08:19:20 AM »
TK, FTC,

Is that a sim from .99?  If so, maybe he can tell us where those values came from.

TK, are you fairly certain of your inductance measurements?

All the others being discussed are much lower.

PW

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #596 on: April 22, 2012, 08:36:17 AM »
TK,

Your figures corrected for the CSR inductance are getting close to going the "other way".  The fact that the oscillation is not a pure sine at 1.5MHz, i.e., it contains a lot of  harmonics, that reactance value at 1.5MHz may not be accurate as well, and would still be too low regarding those harmonics.

You might try making a measurement using a non-inductive or less-inductive CSR for a comparison.

It is a shame that the manufacturer and part numbers are not listed in the papers.


PW
If I can be convinced that they took into account their inductance and did it correctly, and that their resistors have that low inductance... then I'll be happy to oblige. Right now, though, I am looking at this  figure below, that I'm linking yet again, and that .99 posted to me showing the "average power" or average VV figure that I thought I was supposed to be emulating.
There is no evidence in their waveforms or settings that they have substantially different inductances than I do, as far as I can tell. Certainly not by a factor of nearly 20. I also am suspicious of their stated load inductance, which also seems implausibly low.

fuzzytomcat

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #597 on: April 22, 2012, 08:42:40 AM »
And just where did those figures come from? That is a sim, right? Designed to mimic the behavior of the circuit?

4 resistors in parallel with 275 nH inductance each should total about 69 nH, isn't it?

Hey TK,

That circuit is the same as paper #2 and your right the BLOG http://newlightondarkenergy.blogspot.com/2011/04/109-simulated-circuit.html#links is a sim circuit with those figures shown ... unknown where the those figures came from but the schematic is the NERD's not .99's

There is a prior blog post http://newlightondarkenergy.blogspot.com/2011/05/120-revised-report.html#links with ....
Quote
5. SIMULATION
 5.1 The circuit was setup in Simetrix version 5.4 ( Figure 7 ) and simulated in correlation with the above tests ( Figure 8 ).

Cheers,
Fuzzy
 :)

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #598 on: April 22, 2012, 08:43:15 AM »
TK, FTC,

Is that a sim from .99?  If so, maybe he can tell us where those values came from.

TK, are you fairly certain of your inductance measurements?

All the others being discussed are much lower.

PW

I am using a new meter. I did my best to qualify its readings at low inductances.
If I measure a marked 1.5 milliHenry inductor, and it measures 1.5 milliHenry on the meter, and then if I measure one 1 microHenry inductor, and it measures one microHenry, and then I measure two of them in series and it measures 2 microHenry, and then I measure three in series and it measures.... and I measure 6 in series and it measures 6 microHenry.... and then I measure the resistor and it measures 7 microHenry ... what am I to believe? It's a number in a box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D36aK5XHoHc

picowatt

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #599 on: April 22, 2012, 08:55:47 AM »
TK,

I have a few questions regarding that scope shot, particularly if the text is correct regarding the FG being at full negative offset.

In any event, I do not see how the CSR inductance can be estimated from that shot.  As this is critical to power calculations, I assume it will be addressed with greater clarity in the future, or at least a non-inductive resistor used.

As for now regarding your circuit, and not being certain what resistors RA used, I do not know what to tell you.  Possibly .99 has some suggestions.

I believe you said you checked your LCR meter against a "known".  Are you fairly confident in your inductance measurement of the shunt resistors?  Enough so that you do not feel it necessary to try an alternate meaurement of one of the ten watters with the FG, etc?

PW