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Author Topic: Dia. Mag. Alternator  (Read 138212 times)

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2010, 04:22:26 AM »
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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2010, 04:22:26 AM »

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2010, 06:58:26 AM »
OK, gotta have a way to hold this thing down when I put the torque to it...

I fabricated this mounting plate to hold everything together...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2010, 02:00:07 AM »
Replicators...

Offline shylo

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2010, 12:27:45 PM »
Hi still waitng for next installement......looks like a great project..........excellent workmanship...patiently waiting.....shylo

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2010, 01:52:58 AM »
Howdy Shylo,

Thank you for your praise and your patients.  This project has been a mountain of work.  I think I am downclimbing the back side now.  This weekend I have been deburring the the alternator plates.  These are steel, so they have lots of little, extremely sharp bits of metal here and there that need to be filed off.  Machining the steel plates with a mill creates flake like shards that get rolled up into these microscopic steel splinters from Hell.  I probably have several thousand permanently embedded in my fingers.  If they are large enough to get a tweezers tips on them I can pull them out.  But some are so small that I have to wait for the exfoliation process of my skin to get them out.  Fun fun...

So, now that I have the alternator plates deburred I can laminate the plates, and then start the assembly process.  I'm using a clear polyurethane paint for the "lamination".  I think I can build up several coats to get maybe 5 mils of space between the plates.  This is something that needs to be experimented with.  What is the optimum plate spacing?  Is there a maximum limit?  Could plate spacing make the difference between a normal alternator, and something exhibiting overunity?  Well, were gonna do about a thousand experiments to figure that out...

Here are the alternator plates in the laminating process...

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2010, 01:52:58 AM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2010, 05:10:16 PM »
So, now that I have the alternator plates deburred I can laminate the plates, and then start the assembly process.  I'm using a clear polyurethane paint for the "lamination".  I think I can build up several coats to get maybe 5 mils of space between the plates.  This is something that needs to be experimented with.  What is the optimum plate spacing?  Is there a maximum limit?  Could plate spacing make the difference between a normal alternator, and something exhibiting overunity?  Well, were gonna do about a thousand experiments to figure that out...

Here are the alternator plates in the laminating process...

@z.monkey

The optimal spacing is the minimum thickness coating of the insulation
that truly insulates the plates electrically. I would suggest that you
lightly deburr them and then rinse in a highly concentrated alcohol
solution. Then apply the coating. Stack two plates together and try
to measure the resistance between the plates from along their edges.
- no conduction means; all is well. Once you tighthen them into a
stack you may want to try the conductance test again but this time
with your utility voltage and a lamp. This will substitute for a HV
insulation test. If you get conductance simply take them apart
and reapply the coating. Since you are not currently doing RF
radio frequency work, the coating thickness is primarily to stop
conductance, while diluting magnetic characteristics of the core as
little as possible. No, It is not correct to look at the spacing as implying
a frequency of some type. It is to prevent spinning eddy currents
above a particular size. Yes, suppression of eddy currents contributes
to efficiency which is why it is used in LF AC motors. In HF AC, ferrite
binder materials insulate each particle of metal from the other, impling
3D eddy current suppression.

Your work is excellent mechanical work by the way.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #66 on: October 19, 2010, 01:19:02 PM »
Your work is excellent mechanical work by the way.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Thanks Mark,

I've been developing my machine skills over the summer, and its really starting to pay off.  Electric currents create magnetic fields, and we want to isolate the plates to prevent these stray currents from interfering with the intended flux pathways.  I do have a little problem there, there are 24 steel bolts that go all the way through the plates.  Uh, I guess I could use Nylon hardware.  And we have some more experimenting to do there...

The stray eddy current situation is somewhat analogous to trace impedance on a printed circuit board.  High speed digital design deals with signals on boards that run up into gigahertz frequencies these days.  To keep those signals clean your traces need to be tightly coupled to a reference plane, like 5 mils tight.  The problem with the eddy currents in the core material is similar in that these eddy currents can be considered to be noise, and we want to eliminate that noise, and isolation is the answer...

Testing the plate isolation is no problem.  I have the equipment already, and we can test it at various frequencies, both mechanically and electrically.  There will be an optimum operating frequency determined by the mechanical construct which, similar to audio resonant frequency, will result in the most efficient operation.  We have to figure out that frequency.  It will be somewhere from 50 to 400 Hertz.  We can use a variable speed motor and a tachometer to toy with the mechanical frequency.  50 Hertz would be 3000 RPM, and 400 Hertz would be 24000 RPM.  The bearings are rated up to 36000 RPM.

The next step is building the winding jig.  I have a tight space for the coils, and part of that space is open sided.  So I need to build a structure that can support the open sides.  I'll use a set of keepers, and glue the coil together so it will hold its form.  Then I need to modify the bearing plates to fit both the mounting plate, and the coils, and then we can assemble...
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 02:04:41 PM by z.monkey »

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #66 on: October 19, 2010, 01:19:02 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2010, 03:41:53 AM »
Cleaned everyone with Isopropanol...

Laminating now.  This stuff is stinky...

I'll be glad when this is done...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2010, 03:32:42 AM »
OK, now wrapping up the laminating process...

I am cutting the Winding Jig Blocks while I wait for the laminations to dry.
Then there is a pic of the cut Winding Jig Blocks.  The 4" trim saw was very
helpful in the process...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2010, 01:35:22 PM »
The finished stack thickness is 1.088 inches.  Before laminating the stack was 0.939 inches.  So, that works out to be about 9 mils isolation between each plate +/- 1 mils for inconsistencies.  The "lamination" paint that I picked first made very thin coatings, and I used the whole can on the top side.  The second can was a different source, and was a much thicker coating.  I only needed to apply two coats to the back side.  Then I shot the top side one more time.

Assembling the winding jig now...

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2010, 01:35:22 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2010, 06:01:55 PM »
Here I am marking the holes to cut on the winding jig, and fitting the winding jig to the stack.  Next I need to fabricate the coil keepers.  Also I need to make the end pieces for the winding jig.  The end pieces will use a 1/2 inch threaded rod for an axle to allow the winding jig to spin.  Then I'll make a crank with another stick of wood, another piece of the threaded rod, and a 1 inch dowel as a handle.

I think I can see light up ahead in this tunnel...

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2010, 01:49:06 AM »
Excellent!

Offline shylo

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2010, 02:25:37 AM »
Very Nice work,....looking forward to see,..how it preforms....and produce's power..........pretty much the same thing.............I think you might have a portion that locks up on you though,......I hope I'm wrong................shylo

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2010, 02:17:45 AM »
Today I fabricated the Winding Jig End Plates, and then built the rest of the Winding Jig.  Now we have to get everything square, glue in the coil keepers, and then torque everything down before we wind the coils...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2010, 07:04:32 PM »
OK, this is the winding process.  I had a couple friends help with the winding process because I need more than two hands to do this.  One was the glue man, and managed the epoxy coating on the windings.  The other was there to count the windings.  It took a good three hours to wind the two coils.  They each have approximately 1060 turns.  I used a long cure epoxy (60 minutes) so that we would have extra working time.  I have had problems with the epoxy curing before I got the coil wound before, and didn't want that to happen here.  This was a rather sloppy process, and we had a few SNAFUs where we had to unwind part of the coil, after it was coated with epoxy.  Its never fun to get epoxy all over the place.  Albeit we got the thing wound and that's the important part.  The Epoxy requires 24 hours for a full cure, so I am not going to take the core out of the winding jig until tonight...

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2010, 07:04:32 PM »

 

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