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Author Topic: Dia. Mag. Alternator  (Read 158367 times)

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2010, 05:13:39 PM »
Doh!

http://www.mwswire.com/pdf_files/mws_tech_book/copper_magnet_wire_data.pdf

Assumptions will kick your ass...

I assumed that old spool of wire was 22 AWG.  Its not...  I found that magnet wire spec sheet above, and measured the wire, about 16 mils.  That's not 22 AWG, its 26 AWG.  No wonder it didn't work like it should.  Doh!  Then I went to 14 AWG, from 26 AWG...  Doh!

So, now I am thinking middle of the road here, 20 AWG.  But I don't have 20 AWG available.  But I do have a spool of 22 AWG.  So, I'm right back where I thought I was.  I could shell out some more clams for 20 AWG, but I think I'll go for a little more voltage, and stick with the surplus spool of 22 AWG.  Then the cost is just another tube of epoxy...

Now I just got to get that Turkey out of the way, then we can rewind...

BTW, also getting the flux return path bars today...

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2010, 05:13:39 PM »

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #136 on: November 28, 2010, 05:33:38 PM »
Back to the Core issues...

I really needed to unwind...

This one came apart a lot easier than the 26 AWG coil (first one).  The large wire is stronger than the epoxy bonds, and I was able to pull it apart with my hands.  The 14 AWG wire is salvageable also, so I rewound it on a spool and put it away for laterz...

Now I have to setup the jig again, and wind the 22 AWG coils...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2010, 01:53:08 PM »
3rd winding is the charm, right?

That's where the overunity is, right...   LOL!

Getting ready to do the 22 AWG windings.  I've got all the bits together, and just gotta get the time to spin the jig...

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2010, 01:53:08 PM »
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Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #138 on: December 03, 2010, 02:21:32 PM »
Fingers crossed!

Offline b_rads

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #139 on: December 03, 2010, 04:13:38 PM »
 :) Here’s to hope that the third time is the charm!  :)

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #139 on: December 03, 2010, 04:13:38 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #140 on: December 05, 2010, 03:30:26 AM »
Three is wound...

Waiting for the epoxy to cure...

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #141 on: December 05, 2010, 03:38:05 AM »
Wish for the best!

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #141 on: December 05, 2010, 03:38:05 AM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #142 on: December 05, 2010, 07:08:01 PM »
OK, cracked the core out of the winding jig this morning.  I spent a couple hours reassembling the thing, and now I have some test numbers.  So, I am going to summarize the results of the three windings here.

Coil 1, 26 AWG
Coil resistance = 25 Ohms x 2 coils in series = 50 Ohms.
Open circuit voltage = 17.34 Volts.
Voltage Loaded with 65 Ohms = 5.84 Volts.
Amperage based on resistor = 89.8 milliAmps.
Wattage based on Amperage = 0.52 Watts.

Coil 2, 14 AWG
Coil resistance = 0.6 Ohms x 2 coils = 1.2 Ohms.
Open circuit voltage = 0.73 Volts.
Voltage loaded with a 65 Ohms = 0.63 Volts
Amperage based on resistor = 9.7 milliAmps
Wattage based on Amperage = 0.006 Watts

Coil 3, 22 AWG
Coil resistance = 2.5 Ohms x 2 coils = 5 Ohms
Open circuit Voltage = 3.85 Volts
Voltage loaded with 65 Ohms = 3.17 Volts
Amperage based on resistor = 48.7 milliAmps
Wattage based on Amperage = 0.154 Watts

If we look at the wattage, the first coil looks like the best.  But, look at the way the voltage drops off under load.  Clearly a current deficiency.  Coil 2 is simply mismatched.  6 milliWatts, uulgh...  The third coil develops a low voltage, but doesn't fold when the load is applied.  So, of the three the third coil is probably the best matched of the three...

So, I think I am satisfied with the coils now.  I'm gonna work on some other parts now...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #143 on: December 05, 2010, 07:33:23 PM »
Something that has been bugging me for a while is the Flux Return Path Bars (FRP-Bars).  I needed to improve the flux pathways around the outside of the coils.  There are currents there, and they need a highly conductive path around the outside of the coils.  These are the "I's" that I was talking about before.  The I's that are missing from the EI cores...

I got a bar of mild steel which is 1/2 inch x 1 inch x 3 feet, about $18 at Ace Hardware.  I cut some 7 inch sections.  I put one on each side of the core, and then clamped them into place for a test.  OK, now look at these numbers...

Coil 3, 22 AWG
Coil resistance = 2.5 Ohms x 2 coils = 5 Ohms
Open circuit Voltage = 7.81 Volts
Voltage loaded with 65 Ohms = 5.71 Volts
Amperage based on resistor = 87.8 milliAmps
Wattage based on Amperage = 0.501 Watts

I tripled the output wattage by adding the Flux Return Pathway Bars (FRP-Bars)...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:05:13 AM by z.monkey »

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #143 on: December 05, 2010, 07:33:23 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #144 on: December 05, 2010, 07:58:53 PM »
I made a video of the test and put it on yuo tubez...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmkOOXpGRE

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #145 on: December 06, 2010, 12:40:53 AM »
If the clamps are iron, you should retest without them in order to get an accurate result. The FRP-bars are shorted by the clamps and making a different path for the flux return. That is just my opinion.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 01:03:26 AM by nievesoliveras »

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #145 on: December 06, 2010, 12:40:53 AM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #146 on: December 06, 2010, 12:54:54 AM »
I the clamps are iron, you should retest without them in order to get an accurate result.
Howdy Jesus,
Yeah, you're right.  The clamps are iron, and providing another flux pathway.  I cut the FRP-Bars an inch long so that I can use some screws to secure them through the ends.  The C clamps are temporary, and I'll do another test once I modify the FRP-Bars, and add the mounting screws...

Another efficiency idea I am playing with is adding a mixture of fine iron filings and epoxy to fill up any gaps that I have between the core and the coil.  I would need to clean out any spaces that are filled with epoxy only, and then refill them with the iron filing and epoxy mix.  Little things like this kick the efficiency up an further increase the output power...

Edit:  Jesus, the C clamps are routing flux away from the core.  When they are removed the efficiency should get better, power should go up...

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2010, 12:58:37 AM »
Good idea!

Offline Mk1

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #148 on: December 06, 2010, 02:50:36 AM »
@z

You should really make test to determine if it affects the output .

But i think the design is safe since the generator you built is almost identical the old phone magneto to the exception of the stator/rotor reversal . Magneto usually rotate a coil in a magnetic field the opposite is also feasible .

Mark

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Dia. Mag. Alternator
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2010, 03:01:30 AM »
Magneto usually rotate a coil in a magnetic field the opposite is also feasible.
Rotate a magnet in a coilnetic field?  LOL!

Yeah, this is old school.  That is why I don't have big gains, like modern alternators.  What I am doing with the iron cores and basic magnets is late 19th century technology.  Tesla would have built something like this in college (1880's, maybe).  My angle is to explore the fundamentals as Tesla would have, hoping to re-experience his revelations...

I like to think that this is Electro-Punk, uh, sort of...  Like Steam-Punk, but with electrons, and not water vapor...

 

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