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Author Topic: Pulsing A Bifilar Coil And Collecting From It And Various Ways Of Going About It  (Read 7119 times)

Offline Jimboot

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nice ideas. Just wound pancakes with copper ribbon. Got some gardening "budding" tape to use between the layers. I laid out 5m of the acetate stuck one length of the copper ribbon, turned it over did the the other side and then rolled it all up with an extra layer of the acetate.

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Online Magluvin

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nice ideas. Just wound pancakes with copper ribbon. Got some gardening "budding" tape to use between the layers. I laid out 5m of the acetate stuck one length of the copper ribbon, turned it over did the the other side and then rolled it all up with an extra layer of the acetate.

Had thought of how that would be done.  So the tape and copper dont get funky while winding?

Mags


Offline Jimboot

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Had though of how that would be done.  So the tape and copper dont get funky while winding?

Mags
The copper has adhesive backing the acetate no adhesion. So it was relatively simple. I then just wind it on to a coffee plunger handle and frame. See attached..

Online Magluvin

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Hey Jim.

Saw your coil at OUR.  Have you measured the inductance and capacitance and resistance yet?

Mags


Offline Jimboot

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Hey Jim.

Saw your coil at OUR.  Have you measured the inductance and capacitance and resistance yet?

Mags
Not yet - hopefully will get some bench time tonight.  Want find it's resonant freq as well

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Online Magluvin

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I wound my first half of the single winding as 1 separate coils with just thin plastic that you peal off of large velcro and fixed a large plastic washer temporarily to wind the 1st coil, then superglue the winding with super thin ca and remove temp washer. Superglue doesnt stick to the peal plastic. Left it so the second adjacent winding process didnt pull on the windings of the 1st . I used hobby shop super thin super glue to hold the bobbins together and to hold the windings together.

I was surprised that each was 13.15 mh.  I used 30awg from RS magnet wire. 1 roll each. Didnt count the turns, just using the full rolls. 22.5ohm and 42pf between coils.

Pic showing the sifi coils finished and winding the bifi. Will finish that and put up the details then.  Im threatening myself to wind a 3rd sifi but the center tap thing would have differences between the 2 coils layered.  This should be good though. Can test transformer action with both. Can JT it. Can do more than just testing the difference between a 1 wire coil and just the ends of a series bifi.

Mags

Online Magluvin

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Just finished the bifi coil. Had to turn by hand to keep it neat. 

36mh and 16.4nf.   On sim it rings at 6.5khz. Will test tomorrow to see if thats the case.

Mags

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Online Magluvin

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Didnt get to play yesterday. 

The bifi rings at 12.98khz.  Seems odd that calculations dont work out. ??? This was with 1v pulse.

The individual bifi windings read 9mh and the sifi individual windings measure 13mh.  But both set for series are the same at 35mh...

Anyway, working on a test setup....

Mags

Online Magluvin

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The first test between the 2 coils will be the circuit I first posted, and reposted below. It can be done with both sifi and bifi that I have made.  Again, the sifi is 2 directly side by side individual coils so that each of them is identical to eachother, similarly to the bifi windings being identical. To do the sifi in separate layers at the same turns, or even the same length of wire(75ft according to package) as I have done, the 2 sifi windings would not be identical and making the sifi and bifi comparisons would not be a totally fair comparison.  And all 4 coils are very near 22.5ohm and both sifi and bifi in series are 35mh.  So it should be a fair comparison.

The circuit below would be something that could be tried on a Bedini bifi winding, and very possibly a JT winding, of which I will try that as brad said, but with these coils. Like I said before, the circuit below is different than saying the JT trigger coil is delivering power to say a resistor that is put there for the JT to run as required by the user. That energy isnt really looked at as an output 'usually' only the led output.. Here we want to see if the bifi windings outputing separately but at the same time as shown below can beat out the same circuit with the sifi. And the caps on the output can be resistors or resistors added across the caps as load to monitor continuous operation.

So we pulse 1 winding and when the pulse releases, we collect from both windings individually.  If there is a big difference between the 2 sifi face to face windings as in if the coil that is not being pulsed ends with much lower output than the pulsed winding, all in comparison of the bifi which should have equal outputs in theory, then I will have to consider a different sifi winding technique to compare that aspect with the sifi coils alone. But then again we can test pulsing both windings in series and see if there is any difference in individual outputs which would eliminate the winding issue of the sifi. Lots to do and no time to do it. Used to not be that way for me.

Mags

Mags

Online Magluvin

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One more thing.... Not sure if this was brought up before...

The total for both coils is 35mh  The sifi individual coil were 13.5mh and the bifi were 9mh each.  The calculated resonance for the bifi using 35mh and 16.4nf is 6.1khz and the scope shot is 12.98khz.  So I recalculated for 9mh which is each windings measurement and we end up with 13.1khz.  So we have to only use the inductance of 1 bifi winding and the total capacitance to calculate the resonance of the bifi. 

Seems like there is an oddity there. Like the 2 bifi windings maybe ignore each others inductance at resonant freq????? ???   new puzzle part?   In series it measures just like the series sifi coil, but apparently at resonance the working inductance of the bifi is 9mh.

Mags

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Offline Jimboot

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One more thing.... Not sure if this was brought up before...

The total for both coils is 35mh  The sifi individual coil were 13.5mh and the bifi were 9mh each.  The calculated resonance for the bifi using 35mh and 16.4nf is 6.1khz and the scope shot is 12.98khz.  So I recalculated for 9mh which is each windings measurement and we end up with 13.1khz.  So we have to only use the inductance of 1 bifi winding and the total capacitance to calculate the resonance of the bifi. 

Seems like there is an oddity there. Like the 2 bifi windings maybe ignore each others inductance at resonant freq? ??? ? ???   new puzzle part?   In series it measures just like the series sifi coil, but apparently at resonance the working inductance of the bifi is 9mh.

Mags


Edit: my msg was lost somewhere.
That's a nice low frequency mags. I have not yet measured inductance. My ribbon TBP is ringing at 447k(sine) & 450k(square) Yellow is across a 100k resistor in series. Blue is across pocket Vellemann SG running off its DC charger.

Online Magluvin

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The rigol gives a lot of info.  Nice

Mags


Offline Jimboot

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The rigol gives a lot of info.  Nice

Mags


Still working out how to use it. Let me know if you want anything measured! These are good experiments for to learn its functions that's for sure.

Online Magluvin

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Im finding that you can reliably calculate the res freq of a bifi coil by reading its winding to winding capacitance and the inductance of just 1 winding and run it through an LC calculator. It seems most are running the coils to find the res freq then calculating that with the total series inductance to come up with the capacitance. Need to look into it further. That way doesnt give us a tangible capacitance that we can verify. But here with just using 1 winding inductance and the inter winding cap value, I am getting a .1khz accuracy at finding the res freq without testing. 2 coils tested and next will be the big pancake I made. If it works there also Id say its conclusive and we need to look at these coils a little closer.

Also, was just playing before I go home to eat, if we have the bifi in series, when we only operate 1 winding  and leave the other winding attached at the middle and its other end free, the single working winding will resonate at the bifi res freq. ;D Didnt know that. ;)   So if we are working 1 winding only and the far end of the other winding is loose, what inductance should we be looking at now?

Lots of stuff to do.  All this stuff is very simple testing n probing. And Im finding things I never thought I would find.  Very interesting coil indeed. ;)

Mags


Offline evostars

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    • my youtube channel with bifilar pancake coil info
pulsing the coil, like ringing a bell. short high voltage infinite small rise and fall time, hairpin pulses, like the hammer that rings a bell.

I use this, and highly recomend it:
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/pulse-modulator-ocxi
It gives these hairpin pulses, if the impedance of the load is small enough.

Best would be pulsing the bifilar coil, from both ends, with opposite polarity. (discharging a capacitor with both leads at the same time).
It could be done with a relais, charging both leads at one possition, and discharging both leads into the coil at the other possition.


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