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Author Topic: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it  (Read 20257 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« on: December 23, 2009, 12:03:42 AM »
Take a look at the pictures below. The construction is simple... Anyone seen a similar idea before?


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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 01:08:53 AM »
Original idea, thanks for sharing!

Possibly show stopper I see:
When A1 hits Y, the load it off the can. B is pulling the can up, nothing makes it flip as the drawing is implying it will. So, A1 will rest on Y, A2 will remain high, no weight shift.

Nothing stops you from drawing in a linkage of sorts which directs the tilt of the can, to make tilt is possible. Then the next reason why it won't work will need to be thought up :-)

Original thinking will eventually bring succes!

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 03:33:58 PM »
That was my thought too @Cloxxki. But I had some hopes that the kinetic energy in the weight B was able to let the arm swing a bit further so the can could flip... I will make a practical try - should be possible :)

Vidar

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 03:33:58 PM »
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Offline winner

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 03:23:18 PM »
That was my thought too @Cloxxki. But I had some hopes that the kinetic energy in the weight B was able to let the arm swing a bit further so the can could flip... I will make a practical try - should be possible :)

Vidar
Low-Q, did you ever make a build of this with linkages? Has anyone else tried?

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 05:16:06 PM »
@winner

o...This is simple enough to try in Phun, the free Physics Simulator.
 Just Google "Phun" to learn more. This should give you approximate
 dimensions.

o...You may want to make central points X and Y wheels and give them
 bearings, so that they slide/roll easily on the top and bottom of the box.

o...This isn't necessarily doable in Phun, but you may want to give the
 axle of the box - hysteresis, meaning memory, so the box doesn't rock
 until it is time to hit the X and Y limits. Hysteresis helps prevent a system
 from coming into balance and stopping. Walter the Yog Guy came up
 with a good idea of using a small permanent magnet DC motor as a
 generator then using a switch to lock and unlock the rotor. This is
 configuration is not exactly energy loss free, but it would be adjustable.

:S:MarkSCoffman

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 05:16:06 PM »
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Offline winner

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 11:23:20 PM »
mscoffman,

Thanks for the response! Though given the simplicity of this model, it would seem it might take less effort just to build a physical model, eh?

I love these ideas that are so simple and require little explanation to see how they would work. I think most here are in agreement that the solution to a gravity engine, if any is found, will be something very simple. I suppose someone with experience can see immediately where the faults and show-stoppers in this system are, but it's easy to construct a movie in my mind that shows this thing as a runner after introducing proper latches to delay movement and provide the hysteresis.

I'm not sure when I'll get around to trying this in Phun or another simulator, but I'll try to do a physical model when I have a chance.

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 04:06:38 PM »
 Hi  Low-Q !
I call it (your proposal ) variable leverage (fulcrum+first class lever /with a variable arm +two masses).
You intend to play swinging motion (as a seesaw with a "sleeping partner"),
 I have as a purpose to play a full continuous rotation.
Some developments , refinements of the variable leverage , you can find at :
 http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/search.php?search_author=iacob+alex    ...let's say"theory"
 http://www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex/  ...look at "Some Drafts"

   Everything should be made as simple as possible (concepts and tests) , before to discover that the "whole" is the sum of its parts.

  I made some "small size" experiments.....before to develop them , in the future , as bigger ones.

      Al_ex
 

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 04:06:38 PM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 02:49:23 AM »
No 'Continuously overbalanced' device can EVER work without an external supply of energy.

At best you can make it act like a perfectly balanced flywheel. It will continue to run until frictional losses cause it to stop.

Stop wasting your time on these unworkable devices.

Offline lumen

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 05:24:40 PM »
It looks like the key to make the arm work is to keep the tube close to level so the required work to tilt it and move the ball is as small as possible!
 
The problem is as the main pivot rotates so does the tilt of the tube, increasing the amount of work required to move the tube to a new position at the end.
 
That is why I have been saying that any and all gravity devices (and magnet motors)  must use the torque shifting principal to gain an advantage. Otherwise, everything is always equal.
 

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 05:24:40 PM »
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Offline iacob alex

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 04:33:54 PM »
  Hi. Lumen !
I agree with you , so "...to use the torque shifting principal..." , or with my words " the torque difference shifting on the same side of the fulcrum ".
Simply , we can maintain the unbalance ( torque difference ) for an " automata seesaw" , due to a regular " gravity escapement "...
     Al_ex

Offline gmbajszar

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 06:43:31 AM »
This is very similar to this concept:

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/79b7a2_d9dee3456ae74a6d98be8697b1afa77d.jpg

The picture is not explaining what is happening. The ball can be in a close position, when it lifts. And it can be in a further away position, when it becomes heavier. We just need to insert a similar tipping ball under it and above it so the ball rolls either to the right or left.

I should make a better picture, but the same concept as yours actually.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 06:43:31 AM »
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Offline gmbajszar

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 07:04:57 AM »
I made a better picture about what I am trying to do.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/79b7a2_1e481109597d43248abe379fce00fef9.jpg

George

Offline gmbajszar

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 07:31:43 AM »
When the ball moves closer to the weight, it moves up. When the ball moves further away, it moves down.

And we need to tip the mechanism somehow so it switches position.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/79b7a2_14a04b5f8dd34a89ad286ebbf9b8fd10.jpg

George

Offline Airstriker

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 11:33:11 PM »
Take a look at the pictures below. The construction is simple... Anyone seen a similar idea before?


You've only drawn the first and last steps as you would like them to be. However, as only the tube will start moving from Y towards X, the tube will set itself in vertical position (and it will always stay in vertical position no matter the lever position), thus the interaction between the tube and the ball at X won't be possible and the lever won't go back down to Y.

Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Unbalanced weight scale...or what to call it
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2014, 11:45:56 PM »
None of these ideas that seek to create a 'continuous overbalance' condition can ever work without the addition of external energy.

My advice is to stop wasting time on such nonsense.

 

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