author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476117#msg476117 date=1456936417]

How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?

Answer-By receiving pulses of energy(from a prime mover) at the correct !time!<--time MH) at it's natural resonant frequency.These pulses of energy can be either pressure waves,or physical contact taps on the glass it self.
Quote physicsclassroom.com -resonance - when one object vibrating at the same natural frequency of a second object forces that second object into vibrational motion.
Watch from 2:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE827gwnnk4
Answer correct.

What is resonance in a wine glass

Answer-Resonance in a wine glass ,is the wine glass vibrating at it's natural resonant frequency
Quote hyperphysics :a resonant frequency is a natural frequency of vibration .

How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

Answer-If you are referring to a wine glass,then there are a multitude of things that will determine the resonant frequency of that wine glass--there is no one simple MH equation that can be used to calculate that resonant frequency.
What are the specifications on the physical size and parameters of the glass?.
Quote Physicsclassroom.com- A resonant frequency is a natural frequency of vibration determined by the physical parameters of the vibrating object.
My questions regarding the physical parameters of the wine glass were legitimate and correct.

You are a joke MH--that much is clear.
You cannot ,have not,and will not answer your own questions-that much is also clear.

Anyway,you enjoy your self over there in wonderland.
It's been a hoot


Brad

Well the problem is that even if the "missing" physical size and parameters of the glass were given to you, you still wouldn't be able to answer the question.  Are you bluffing?  Go ahead and fill in your own parameters and answer then.  I said the same thing to you about the Joule Thief when you asked for specifics and you ran away.  Will you run away again?

I will take this one step further because it's annoying.

Why did I put "missing" in quotations?

Let's look at the question again:

How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

Is that question asking you for specific values?  The answer no.  Now can you understand the question?

Here is an analogy to show you how ridiculous your balking is:

Supposing you are in grade 6 and the teacher says to the class,  "Write up a short story describing how you fill up your car with gas at a gas station."  It's a test for the children in grade 6 to see if they are capable of describing something in a logical order and to see if they can put sentences together properly.  It's not a skill-testing question to see if they know how to pump gas.

Now if a student complains that he can't write the short story because, 1) the make and model of the car is not defined, 2) how empty the gas tank is is not defined, 3) the type of gas is not defined, and 4) the brand of the gas station is not defined, then clearly there is a problem with that student.

That's exactly what you are doing when I ask you how the resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined and it's ridiculous.  The question can be answered without specifics.

So you can answer the question by filling in the "missing" physical parameters by yourself, or you can answer the question as it was posed to you just like the kids in the class can write the short story about how to pump gas without specifics.

I will return to this subject in four to eight weeks if you can't answer the questions.  Simple, basic questions can be answered with simple, basic answers.

MileHigh

I will take this one step further because it's annoying.

Why did I put "missing" in quotations?

Let's look at the question again:

Is that question asking you for specific values?  The answer no.  Now can you understand the question?

Here is an analogy to show you how ridiculous your balking is:

Supposing you are in grade 6 and the teacher says to the class,  "Write up a short story describing how you fill up your car with gas at a gas station."  It's a test for the children in grade 6 to see if they are capable of describing something in a logical order and to see if they can put sentences together properly.  It's not a skill-testing question to see if they know how to pump gas.

Now if a student complains that he can't write the short story because, 1) the make and model of the car is not defined, 2) how empty the gas tank is is not defined, 3) the type of gas is not defined, and 4) the brand of the gas station is not defined, then clearly there is a problem with that student.

That's exactly what you are doing when I ask you how the resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined and it's ridiculous.  The question can be answered without specifics.

So you can answer the question by filling in the "missing" physical parameters by yourself, or you can answer the question as it was posed to you just like the kids in the class can write the short story about how to pump gas without specifics.

I will return to this subject in four to eight weeks if you can't answer the questions.  Simple, basic questions can be answered with simple, basic answers.

MileHigh

Your in dream land MH

How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

The list of specifications that will determine the resonant frequency of a wine glass is a !Mile! long.
When working out how to determine what the resonant frequency will be ,you need that full list of specifications,and by building the wine glass to those specifications,then hopefully you will be some where in the ball park.
E.G-if you want a wine glass to resonate at a determined frequency of say 440Hz,then you need all the information about the makeup of the wine glass in order to construct that wine glass to resonate at the determined frequency

Now if you want to know the actual resonant frequency(the frequency that has already been determined by it's physical and chemical parameters) of a wine glass,then i would think the easiest way to do that would be to give the wine glass a quick tap,and hold a microphone !that is hooked to a scope!,close to the wine glass,and see what the vibrational frequency is on your scope. You would then know !what! the determined frequency of the wine glass is.

It;s the same when building switchmode power supplies. First you determine what output power you need,and then you build that power supply that will deliver the required output using known specifications.So the only way to know how to determine that output,is by using known specifications of the components and makeup of that power supply.
But if you want to know !what! the actual power output is of an already built power supply,then you can simply do some load tests to acquire that information-as the determined output was already set when the power supply was built.

Maybe you meant- how can we find out what the resonant frequency of a wine glass is?,as that frequency was already determined when the wine glass was constructed.
If so,then i have answered that question above-->and you should try and word things correctly MH,as it would save a lot of confusion for everyone else.


Brad

NOPE!

and here is why.

There is not ONE frequency,, there are many,, so I was wrong, the question should be "A" resonant frequency not "THE".

It is a silly question,, but that has made me think of things in a little different way,, to me that is something that was learned.

Webby
I do not think the wine glass has multiple resonant frequency's--i believe it will have only one.
The force that causes that resonant frequency in the wine glass can have multiple frequency's that are divisions or multiplications of that resonant frequency of the wine glass.
EG,if the wine glass has a resonant frequency of say 400Hz,then we should be able to tap that glass at 200Hz,and the glass should still resonate.
This is much the same as the kid on a swing. Even if we only gave him a push every second swing,his resonant frequency will still remain the same as if we push him every swing.


Brad

Here are the two questions again:

How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?
How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

All of the whining and complaining and moaning and making up excuses is just you saying that you don't truly understand what resonance is because if you did you could answer both questions without batting an eyelash.

So right now you are unable to answer the questions, period.  I will answer them in four to eight weeks.  Now if you wanted to undertake to learn something on your own volition and came back and answered them correctly that would be great.

MileHigh

Both answered
Have a nice day.

Brad

Well, I'm telling you that you are wrong.  You said you couldn't answer the question about the frequency without specifics, implying that if you were given the specifics you could.  Then after you are told to supply the specifics yourself, you go into a whole song and dance routine and whine about how it is too complicated and you can't supply the specifics.  You were bluffing the whole time.  It's a farce.

It's a farce because you have been arguing about resonance in a Joule Thief and you can't even explain the mechanism of resonance for a wine glass.  It's a farce because you put up some scope shots of your Joule Thief and said, "This is a Joule Thief in resonance," when that was obviously not the case.

In a month or two when I answer the questions don't you dare say, "Oh, of course, that was so obvious that I didn't bother stating it."  Based on your current behaviour, I wouldn't put that past you.  Don't you dare do that Brad.  If the obvious is so obvious then state it now.

Clearly many people don't understand what resonance is nor can they explain it.  It's just a vague concept and all they can do is parrot out the definition of resonance but they can't apply it to a real-wold example and show that they understand what they are talking about.  The same thing applies to a "resonant Joule Thief."  For starters it's a switching device with an operating frequency, not a resonant frequency.  Nobody can define what a "resonant Joule Thief" actually is.  They can't explain the mechanism, they can't sketch out a timing diagram and show where the resonance is and show what the benefits are.  It's just like the foolishness around a "self-resonant coil" because of that Tesla patent.

So for years there has been chatter about a "resonant Joule Thief" and from what I can see, there is nothing to show for it at all.  Relative to the standard definition of a Joule Thief, a "resonant Joule Thief" is an oxymoron.

I really hope Magluvin gets the time to work with Smoky2 and look for a "resonant Joule Thief" and documents it properly and sketches out a full timing diagram showing exactly where the resonance is and explaining the alleged mechanism for the resonance and showing the alleged benefits.  However, I am not holding my breath on this.

MileHigh

THIS IS FOR MILE HIGH THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A JOULE THIEF,