Author Topic: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar? (Read 71404 times)

The Observer · « **on:** July 22, 2009, 05:43:41 PM »

Thank you, for your interest in this.

The situation is this...

1) 2 Guitars ... 1 Acoustic, 1 Electric.
2) Same string, same length.
3) Each strummed with equal force.

The Acoustic Guitar emanates a sound wave 100's
perhaps 1000's of times louder than the Electric Guitar.

a) Where does the "extra" sound come from?

b) What happens that would produce this effect?

c) Does energy "appear" to be amplified?

d) Is energy being amplified?

I would appreciate any answers to
these questions you can provide.
O O
0
\__/

The Observer

IotaYodi · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2009, 07:08:06 PM »

Thats easy since I play both. An Acoustic has a Resonance chamber the electric doesn't. The frequency's resonate within the cavity bouncing out the sound hole. If you only pluck one string it will continue to produce its frequency until the string comes to a complete rest. When you pluck them all you are adding volume to the resonance cavity. Overtones from one string can set another string into vibrating its frequency. So I would say it is adding energy as far as acoustic resonance.

lltfdaniel1 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2009, 07:11:01 PM »

Well once this book about keely has been turned into an ebook..you will have a much better idea of why...it is the wonder of more out than in.

Same with earths resonance etc, louder well it is obviously tapping into something, regarding rf and earths resonace lets say you have a radio transmitter and broadcast it..its radio reception is like what 50-100 miles...and then you use the earth and the range has been quadrupled...thus hence where and what it is tapping.

This vaccum/zpe where is basicly a medium as well as other mediums interlinked toeach other is where it recycles it's self endlessly..as it always moves as with everything..more like velocity and then as it recycles it's self..it is a wonder that only god in the deep blue only seems to know.

Cloxxki · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2009, 08:43:59 PM »

Someone answered this question recently on this website or "the" other.
There's not so much "more" energy coming from the acoustic guitar, as there are more and longer AUDIBLE waves. In the electrical guitar, the strings energy to go other energy transitions and frequencies. It was a very plausible explanation when I read it. Written better than I just did, but that goes without saying.

Bob Smith · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2009, 09:22:48 PM »

Well,
Here's my 2 cents' worth as an amateur guitar builder:
As IotaYodi pointed out, the acoustic has a resonance chamber. The string vibrations are transduced thru the saddle to the bridge (and bridge plate below the top) and from the bridge, to the top. The top then acts similar to the wafer of a speaker. As it vibrates with the frequencies of the strings, air is displaced both outside the resonance chamber and within, giving the amplifying effect. In addition, the back and sides of better quality acoustic guitars are made of solid hardwood (traditionally called tone woods) - for example, maple, sycamore, rose wood, mahogany, koa to name a few. When the sound transduced to the top hits the back and sides, it bounces back to the sound board (top). This overall action of the top in tandem with the back and sides gives the amplifying effect of the acoustic guitar. You will notice that lower end acoustic guitars have laminate (plywood) back and sides and often, laminate tops as well. The multiple layers and glue within the laminate essentially mutes the sound transduction and reverberation off back and sides. As a result, a laminate guitar is going to have much less projection than a solid wood model. Mid range priced guitars (say, 200 to 500 dollars) will often have a solid spruce top and laminate back and sides), while guitars $500 and up will more frequently have solid wood back and sides. The kind of bracing also has an effect. Light and strong wood such as sitka spruce is generally the number 1 choice for better acoustic guitars. Solid wood and resonance chamber = better, louder sound.

FWIW
Hope it helps.
Bob Smith

TechStuf · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2009, 09:56:43 PM »

Interesting...So you're saying that some of the amplification from body of the guitar is refocused back to the sound board, increasing efficiency. Kewl to know!

Ok, how about taking an Alpenhorn, attaching some piezo assemblies to the output end, transducing the amplified vibrations at the rim to electricity, in order to power a small air compressor at the mouth?

No go?

Well....I tried.

lltfdaniel1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2009, 10:06:56 PM »

Quote from: TechStuf on July 22, 2009, 09:56:43 PM

Interesting...So you're saying that some of the amplification from body of the guitar is refocused back to the sound board, increasing efficiency. Kewl to know!

Ok, how about taking an Alpenhorn, attaching some piezo assemblies to the output end, transducing the amplified vibrations at the rim to electricity, in order to power a small air compressor at the mouth?

No go?

Well....I tried.

Yes it is like that.

utilitarian · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2009, 02:47:05 PM »

Quote from: The Observer on July 22, 2009, 05:43:41 PM

Thank you, for your interest in this.

The situation is this...

1) 2 Guitars ... 1 Acoustic, 1 Electric.
2) Same string, same length.
3) Each strummed with equal force.

The Acoustic Guitar emanates a sound wave 100's
perhaps 1000's of times louder than the Electric Guitar.

a) Where does the "extra" sound come from?

b) What happens that would produce this effect?

c) Does energy "appear" to be amplified?

d) Is energy being amplified?

I would appreciate any answers to
these questions you can provide.
O O
0
\__/

The Observer

The sound is amplified, but the energy is not. Without the soundbox of the acoustic guitar, the energy in the vibrating string would simply escape in another fashion. With the soundbox, much more of the energy is converted to audible (and audibly pleasing) sound. The soundbox does not magically amplify the energy, though; that would be impossible without some type of other input of energy, such as an electric amplifier.

The Observer · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2009, 06:56:18 PM »

Iota,

I agree, that the sound waves (pressure variations of air) resonate within the air chamber.

There are 2 things resonating.

1. The String.
2. The Air Chamber.

When you hear an Electric Guitar you hear

1. The String

When you hear an Acoustic Guitar you hear

1 The String
+
2. The Air Chamber

This is why it is louder... anyone disagree?

++
ll
ll
ll
( 0 )
(____)
The Observer

TechStuf · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2009, 10:38:14 PM »

In honor of the 40th anniversary of the Apollo moon shots, I think we should send an accoustic and an electric guitar back up, and they should play them to prove these wild theories of yours.

IF no sound is heard,

Then I'll believe we actually went to the moon.

The Observer · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2009, 06:22:07 PM »

Hey Cloxxki

It's good to hear that I am not the only one asking this question.

However, the explanation you recite is lacking a bit.
I realize you are summarizing and may have not got the other person's explanation right.
Never the less, I must address what you said so there is not confusion in the ranks.

You say there are "more and longer audible waves".

More waves... Yes I suppose since the acoustic cavity's waves
add constructivly to the strings waves.. however more waves do not appear.
Only waves of higher amplitude at the same frequency appear to the outside observer.

Longer audible waves... You must mean waves of higher amplitude.
Longer waves means a different sound with lower pitch.
Higher waves mean a louder sound of the same pitch.

And... as most don't seem to get....
Higher waves mean more energy from the source.
.
As far as an electric guitar's stings energy going to "other transitions and frequencies"...
That's pretty vague..
The string is vibrating at it's natural frequency(s).
It cannot vibrate at other frequencies unless you change the tension, length or mass.
Other transitions? Come on... that is gibberish.

The real crux of the matter is Resonance/Forced Resonance..

There should be a Forum Section on Resonance, because Resonating objects exhibit free energy characteristics !
If the section exists and I didn't see it , my apologies. ;o)

Have a great day,

The Observer

Cloxxki · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2009, 06:40:32 PM »

Wow, you go in-depth on my "trying to be vague" summary :-)

To me, an acoustic guitar seems to produce sound for a longer time. The louder aspect makes the sound be more easily audible over a longer distance, I suppose.
It comes down to this: with an acountic guitar, you get lots of resonant sound, with the electric guitar, human senses are less specialized to notice what the string's energy was transformed into.

You can argue with me further, but I'll just end up stating that you are probably right, I am not a specialized, just meant to echo what I'd just read, and what I had accepted as most plausible. If an acoustic guitar we OU, the military would have found ways to shoot bullets with it, or split atoms.

The Observer · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:48:26 PM »

Hey Cloxx,

Thanks for your response.

I'm not trying to be rude.

I think I come across that way though... because of my passion about this subject.
For that I apologize. ;o)

What I really want is for people here to see forced resonant systems as I do.

That is...

Step 1. Realize a resonant system STORES energy.
Step 2. Realize a resonant system can emanate energy.
Step 3. Realize the energy emanated has to do with the energy stored.

Easy as that... Free Energy... no way around it.

The simplest example I can think of is a Swing.

Take the power of 1 finger at the correct frequency (the swing's natural Frequency).

Start pushing the swing...
at first not too much action... not very much wind produced.
then as the swing absorbs the energy from the finger,
the swing swings higher.
More action... more wind.
this goes on until the the swing's max energy stored is reached.

THEN...
Each small push produces a lot of action and a lot of wind.

Anyone get it? (there I go acting rude again) ;o/

Sorry.

Hope everyone is having a great day,
The Observer

swimmingcat · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2009, 04:43:56 AM »

Acoustic guitars are more efficient.

Assuming that both the electric and acoustic guitars are strummed with the same amount of energy then in the case of the electric guitar the sound waves are absorbed by the air in the room. In the case the acoustic guitar the sound waves are gathered and reflected out of the hole in the resonant chamber of the guitar body. Sound waves that, in the case of the electric guitar are sent out in all directions are are gathered redirected in mostly one direction (out the hole) by the resonant body.

If you took the same amount of energy used to strum (measured in joules) and say used it to drive a loud speaker you would get a similar level of sound.

Its not so much that the guitar amplifies the sound as it is that the sounds out of an electric guitar are dispersed in all directions so that a person sitting some distance from the guitar hears a faint sound. The acoustic guitar directs the sound waves in one direction. Sound that would have traveled behind the musician, for example, is redirected by the resonant body to emanate from the front of the musician along with the sound waves that also emanate forwards.

So by redirecting all the sound waves in one direction the listener hears louder music. Also bear in mind the the human ear is non-linear. Sound meters use the decibel scale which is logarithmic. If you double the sound energy the human ear does not perceive twice the sound volume.

It is much like a using a magnifying glass in the sun. By gathering the light received by the total surface area of the glass and focusing it on a tiny pinpoint you can get a hot spot that will ignite paper (implying 600F or higher). Take away the magnifying glass and the paper will not catch fire. The magnifying glass merely concentrates the energy. It does not amplify it.

Tink · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2009, 10:11:03 AM »

Quote from: swimmingcat on July 25, 2009, 04:43:56 AM

Acoustic guitars are more efficient.

Assuming that both the electric and acoustic guitars are strummed with the same amount of energy then in the case of the electric guitar the sound waves are absorbed by the air in the room. In the case the acoustic guitar the sound waves are gathered and reflected out of the hole in the resonant chamber of the guitar body. Sound waves that, in the case of the electric guitar are sent out in all directions are are gathered redirected in mostly one direction (out the hole) by the resonant body.

If you took the same amount of energy used to strum (measured in joules) and say used it to drive a loud speaker you would get a similar level of sound.

Its not so much that the guitar amplifies the sound as it is that the sounds out of an electric guitar are dispersed in all directions so that a person sitting some distance from the guitar hears a faint sound. The acoustic guitar directs the sound waves in one direction. Sound that would have traveled behind the musician, for example, is redirected by the resonant body to emanate from the front of the musician along with the sound waves that also emanate forwards.

So by redirecting all the sound waves in one direction the listener hears louder music. Also bear in mind the the human ear is non-linear. Sound meters use the decibel scale which is logarithmic. If you double the sound energy the human ear does not perceive twice the sound volume.

It is much like a using a magnifying glass in the sun. By gathering the light received by the total surface area of the glass and focusing it on a tiny pinpoint you can get a hot spot that will ignite paper (implying 600F or higher). Take away the magnifying glass and the paper will not catch fire. The magnifying glass merely concentrates the energy. It does not amplify it.

Mmmm, I don't think so.

I think an acoustic guitar does indeed make the string sound much stronger.
When I think of an acoustic guitar I can't help but think of the "his masters voice" wind up recordplayers with the big horn on top to amplify the very weak sound of the needle.
If the horn was only directing the sound in one direction then it could hardly be heard when not directly in front of the horn, but for some reason it is now very well heard all over the room.
Where does the extra power come from?
Back in the seventies there were drawings for exciter loudspeakers in Elector (a magazine), it was just a normal two way loudspeaker box with a tweeter and a midrange speaker.
The exciter itself was a clever fold up horn made up of all sizes of plates inside with a hornlike opening on the front.
These plates made a horn like room inside the box so it was in fact a horn.
Nice thing was that it adds Decibels to the midrange speaker so you got more "Watts" out then you put in (this was handy for people who could not afford a powerful end amplifier but still wanted a lot of power out of their speakers).

So all in all, there is much more to acoustic amplification then meets the eye, and the magnifying glass example does not work in my opinion.

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Author Topic: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar? (Read 71404 times)

The Observer

Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

IotaYodi

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

lltfdaniel1

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

Cloxxki

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

Bob Smith

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

TechStuf

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

lltfdaniel1

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

utilitarian

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

The Observer

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

TechStuf

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

The Observer

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

Cloxxki

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

The Observer

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

swimmingcat

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?

Tink

Re: Why is an Acoustic Guitar so much LOUDER than an Electric Guitar?