Here's what I've got right now on my Vehicle -
*Hydrogen Generator with PWM circuit / device.  I've had one on each of my 2 vehicles for the last year and I'm getting  0 - 10% increased fuel economy, sometimes losing fuel economy (presumably the combination of HHO and Gas being burned raises the exhaust temp and causes the computer to dump more fuel in the mix) 
As I develop this system I discover additional information such as retarding the timing to TDC.
My vehicle factory spec timing is around 16 degrees before TDC.  Right now I don't have the extra cash for a racing engineered timing control unit with in dash controller, so I think back to simple ICE dynamics - spark plug gap fine tunes igntion timing - smaller than oem gap - more advance than factory specs, bigger than oem gap - more timing retard than factory specs (because the spark takes longer to travel over the distance).
Here's the problem with doing this to a gasoline engine - too small of a gap and the timing is too far advanced and you run the risk of pre-ignition / detonation or not running at all.  Too big of a gap and the reverse happens - too inefficient of a burn or the engine will not run at all.  I could be wrong, but this is my general understanding.
I drive about 300 miles back and forth to work in any give week, so I'll post results of this improvement next week.
Others have added EIFE, MAP sensor and O2 sensor modifications.  My goal is 100% HHO / Water fueled engine, so in the end I won't be needing those sensors anyways I'll just need the computer to keep the engine running.

hmm it is many factors that play along.First of all type of ignition system.Spark plug gap is a very important factor in engine performance,fuel efficiency and behaviour over rpm's.Gap will have more influence on combustion process itself rather than timing.For example u cannot expect plug with smaller gap to fire(advance timing) before there is electricity supplied to it.What u can expect is that i will fire somehow faster because it needs now less voltage to ionize the gap.Just how much faster depends on the voltage rising curve on the output of ignitor.I would expect it to be unsubstantial difference from original gap setting.The same in the other direction(retarding) u cannot expect plug to fire when there is no electricity on it supplied from ignitor/

Smaller spark plug gap can cause pre-ignition or/and detonation leading to engine damage in hard cases(or the CPU will sense it by detonation sensor and will advance ignition timing leaving u with lower economy and worse performance).Advanced timing will cause ur sparkplug tips to get hotter,retarding to get cooler(so type of the plug will possibly have to be changed or it will wear off faster/clog with carbon residues) Too much gap can result in a higher rate of misfires noticeable loss of power and poor economy.Bigger spark gap needs higher voltage,that is especially true under high load and high rev's.Also higher voltage will get ur spark life decrease significantly.Bigger gap will put more problems with engine starting(so u need to spend more electricity to start it up->u will have to use extra fuel to recharge the battery).

Some of this statements are true for old cars with distributor ignitors,some of them won't stay true for electronic ignitors.Anyhow i won't to make u sensitive that spark plug is not the best place to search for timing adjustments,because u may end up with cancelling of all benefits u aim to achieve.If u want to have expected results u have to play it professional way,wen u will go full HHO nothing will save u from remapping.

Adjusting static timing is not even half of the way..The whole map of ignition has to be adjusted to the new conditions.Ok i don't want to rewrite what i wrote before in other posts around here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4424.0


PS it is EFIE not EIFE.

hi guys

i have a generator that runs on pure hho. its timing is not far from the manufacturers setup due to the way i feed it the gas.

first off be aware that generators have no computer, sensors etc.

the generators i build have a basic electronic timing circuit, this allows me 360 degree control of the timing so i can literally make it spark whenever i want.
the gas is fed with an lpg carb, this carb basically opens a small valve when it gets good airflow, more airflow = more fuel.

by setting the pressure of the storage chamber to 30psi this gives me a very good pressure to the engine and allows for timing etc

the engine is fed a 15psi @ 12lpm this amount of gas works out to about an 80:1 air/fuel ratio.


this ratio allows the engine to remain cooler whilst keeping its near origional timing.

i am currently in the process of converting a smart car to run on hydrogen along the same concept as the generaor. i will be getting rid of the injectors and lambda sensor as they will be made redundant but the rest of the engine should remain active.

i can see no reason why a remap should have to be carried out as long as tweaked to each engine, i have figured that if you want to adapt an engine to run on hydrogen then use of compressed gas or lpg system is great.

@Hydro-Cell
My car runs on LPG and so did other ones i had.U r describing some first or second generation system with expander warmed up by engine cooling liquid and intake mixer(like Lavato is producing in Italy).Yep it is suitable for HHO but the volumetric effiecncy of the ICE goes down because of the mixer venturi restriciton in the intake and gaseous fuel replacing the intake air.Nice about HHO is that  it actually carries its own oxygen so the volumetric efficiency can be compensated.Straight hydrogen will not have this option.

But to the point.
Generator u r describing is designed to operate in quasi stationary state.It would surprise me if it has any vacuum(load) or rpm ignition advancement/retardation mechanism.That is why u have no problem with just adjusting static ignition,but any modern engine made for varying speeds and loads has an advancement curve for ignition timing in function or rpm and throttle position(or indirectly via vacuum in intake manifold).
May it be by mechanical springs with counterweights or programmed in the ignition maps.It makes it logical that u need to adjust this characteristics for stechiometric hydrogen burning with its much higher combustion speeds.Howewer if u come to the lean enough burning, u may get away with what u have at the factory,but punished with low power of the ICE...i don't think it makes much sense to ride at 1/3 of the rated power as opposed to remapping and enjoying what u can get out of it.

I took a moment to dig through all of ur other posts around this forum.I am not sure if u r using AFR in volume or by mass and whenever it is according to air or oxygen.Seems to me u use fuel to air ration in calculations for gasoline by volume.And for hydrogen by volume related to air/sometmes oxygen.I got confused.I made calculations on this forum already for stechiometric hydrogen in air and HHO in air burrning in ICE.

If ur engine runs ok ,it would say to me u r running lean ,so it makes burning much slower than stechiometric and close to the normal gasoline burning time.

PS: provide a false signal in the lambda socked,otherwise ur CPU will jump to error state.U can buy some of lambda emulators at LPG instalation stations or from the producent.It was a common trick in early LPG injection systems to fool CPU(many authorised instalators just cut the wire through and gasoline operation was problemsatic...yeah that is calle THE service  ).

Ambient Air, I thought it was CO2 from the exhaust?

@Hydro-Cell
   I believe it was in the Colorado videos Stanley Meyers said that the burn rate of hydrogen or hydroxy could be slowed by mixing with ambient air,slowed to the burn rate of gasoline. That could be whats happening with your gens.

Do you have a link?

Hydrogen is highly reactive - what, in all the designs that I've seen, do they do to stop the freshly made hho to h20 from rusting the inside of the engine?

I think that we'll see that oil is a necessity for engines, regardless of hho or gas, or diesel, etc.  Perhaps loosing the internal combustion aspects and going back to the steam engine would make more sense!  Or dropping the engines down to the hit-or-miss style of engines used in farm equipment back in the early 1900's.

Consider the sterling cycle engine, rather than combusting the hho, simply burn it in its entirety in a chamber and reclaim the water; use a sterling engine to generate motion..or co-motion, as an assitive technology.

I swear, ICE's get so damn hot as it is.  The idea with HHO is that you have a watervapor to HHO ratio that doesn't cause massive explosions - those ceramic disk foggers might do the trick.  It needs to be an HHO mist. with a ratio capable of detonation and possibly a higher voltage spark to ensure coverage.