Author Topic: OU/COP>1 switched cap PS cct like Tesla's 'charge siphoning' (Read 145122 times)

AbbaRue · « **Reply #210 on:** December 25, 2008, 07:07:36 PM »

In the "Free Energy Guide" FEG 5-9 on the Tesla Switch it states that free energy can be tapped from a battery
because of the delay in the Lead Ions reacting to the drain on the battery,.
By switching the direction of current flow at just the right time an increase in energy is experienced.
FEG 5-9 explains it quite well so I won't try to.

The question is does a capacitor have a similar state to a battery?

If not this would explain why capacitors won't work in a Tesla Switch.

nul-points · « **Reply #211 on:** December 26, 2008, 12:34:43 AM »

Quote from: NerzhDishual on December 25, 2008, 04:08:16 AM

@Poynt99

What is you aim?
"Nul-Points" is a very serious, accurate experimenter and also a very polite, nice,
attentive, friendly and patient person.
I'm not so patient!

Are you another 'OU' Luminary Nitpicker?
IMHO, You sound heavily pontificative.

merci bien, Mr Dishual

c'est de la gnognotte!

tres cordialement et Joyeux Noel
sandy
______________________________________________________________________________
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc ...bringing you measured Overunity results since May '08

nul-points · « **Reply #212 on:** December 26, 2008, 12:45:41 AM »

Quote from: AbbaRue on December 25, 2008, 07:07:36 PM

In the "Free Energy Guide" FEG 5-9 on the Tesla Switch it states that free energy can be tapped from a battery
because of the delay in the Lead Ions reacting to the drain on the battery,.
By switching the direction of current flow at just the right time an increase in energy is experienced.
FEG 5-9 explains it quite well so I won't try to.

The question is does a capacitor have a similar state to a battery?

If not this would explain why capacitors won't work in a Tesla Switch.

depends how the capacitor is constructed as to whether it can support any ionic flow in addition to electron flow - suggest you direct this question to a thread which has a 'Tesla Switch' focus

thanks
s.

allcanadian · « **Reply #213 on:** December 26, 2008, 02:50:57 AM »

@poynt99

Quote

The text books are correct in this regard. I have proven this to myself with a test of my own here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6090.msg143650#msg143650

I think it should be clarified that the capacitor 50% rule only applies in one circumstance, this does not mean it applies in every circumstance-----there is a very big difference. For instance using an large self-inductance coil and a switch I can charge a capacitor to 400v from a 12v source battery in one single pulse, now how can this 50% rule apply when I have charged the capacitor 388v above the source voltage?. Now what do you think the system efficiency is when you consider the fact that 376v on the capacitor can be returned back to the source? Your rules only apply if you keep doing the same thing over and over, thankfully many here no longer subscribe to that kind of mentality---- we do things a little different

.

Grumpy · « **Reply #214 on:** December 26, 2008, 02:52:14 AM »

Quote from: nul-points on December 26, 2008, 12:45:41 AM

depends how the capacitor is constructed as to whether it can support any ionic flow in addition to electron flow - suggest you direct this question to a thread which has a 'Tesla Switch' focus

thanks
s.

Sandy, how does the construction of a capacitor determine this?

Grumpy · « **Reply #215 on:** December 26, 2008, 02:57:00 AM »

Quote from: allcanadian on December 26, 2008, 02:50:57 AM

@poynt99I think it should be clarified that the capacitor 50% rule only applies in one circumstance, this does not mean it applies in every circumstance-----there is a very big difference. For instance using an large self-inductance coil and a switch I can charge a capacitor to 400v from a 12v source battery in one single pulse, now how can this 50% rule apply when I have charged the capacitor 388v above the source voltage?. Now what do you think the system efficiency is when you consider the fact that 376v on the capacitor can be returned back to the source? Your rules only apply if you keep doing the same thing over and over, thankfully many here no longer subscribe to that kind of mentality---- we do things a little different .

is more "energy" delivered to the capacitor?

AbbaRue · « **Reply #216 on:** December 26, 2008, 03:02:30 AM »

I mentioned the Tesla Switch on this thread because the first few pages mentioned it.
On page 2 the title was: Re: OU/COP>1 switched cap PS cct like half 'Tesla Switch'
Sorry I didn't mean to get anyone off topic, I guess it evolved past the Tesla Switch concept.

In case anyone missed it I posted a link to a Free Energy Guide you can download.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6394.msg146005;topicseen#msg146005

This guide covers most of the devices on this forum.

allcanadian · « **Reply #217 on:** December 26, 2008, 03:33:04 AM »

@Grumpy

Quote

is more "energy" delivered to the capacitor?

If E=CVsquared then yes more energy is "transfered" to the capacitor---and more energy is conserved within the system by utilizing a minimum of components. The faster the voltage is stepped up the faster losses can be reduced, everyone seems to want free energy ----I just want to conserve the energy I have first and then I will worry about the "free stuff"

.

nul-points · « **Reply #218 on:** December 26, 2008, 01:48:56 PM »

Quote from: Grumpy on December 26, 2008, 02:52:14 AM

Sandy, how does the construction of a capacitor determine this?

if you construct it with a dielectric which can support ion flow, not just electron polarisation
eg. water in its liquid phase can exhibit both these properties - in its solid phase the ion flow reduces significantly

all the best
s.

Grumpy · « **Reply #219 on:** December 26, 2008, 05:22:37 PM »

Quote from: nul-points on December 26, 2008, 01:48:56 PM

if you construct it with a dielectric which can support ion flow, not just electron polarisation
eg. water in its liquid phase can exhibit both these properties - in its solid phase the ion flow reduces significantly

all the best
s.

pretty sure it can't work that way, but good luck with that

nul-points · « **Reply #220 on:** December 27, 2008, 12:27:01 AM »

Quote from: Grumpy on December 26, 2008, 05:22:37 PM

pretty sure it can't work that way, but good luck with that

what are you referring to here? Abba Rue's question about ionic flow? my answer?

good luck with what?

hey, i want some of what you've been drinking this holiday!!

all the best
s.

poynt99 · « **Reply #221 on:** December 27, 2008, 06:07:18 PM »

Quote from: allcanadian on December 26, 2008, 02:50:57 AM

@poynt99I think it should be clarified that the capacitor 50% rule only applies in one circumstance, this does not mean it applies in every circumstance-----there is a very big difference. For instance using an large self-inductance coil and a switch I can charge a capacitor to 400v from a 12v source battery in one single pulse, now how can this 50% rule apply when I have charged the capacitor 388v above the source voltage?. Now what do you think the system efficiency is when you consider the fact that 376v on the capacitor can be returned back to the source? Your rules only apply if you keep doing the same thing over and over, thankfully many here no longer subscribe to that kind of mentality---- we do things a little different .

From this response it doesn't appear you've been reading or maybe not understanding what's been posted previously here.

Also, with a coil and battery, anyone can easily charge a capacitor to a voltage much higher than the starting voltage, and in one shot. Is this really a novel feat? No. Is this overunity? No. Have I done it? Yes. Does this mean an efficiency greater than 100% has been achieved? No. Is it an efficiency greater than 50%? In most cases, Yes.

Quote from: allcanadian on December 26, 2008, 03:33:04 AM

@Grumpy If E=CV² then yes more energy is "transferred" to the capacitor---and more energy is conserved within the system by utilizing a minimum of components. The faster the voltage is stepped up the faster losses can be reduced, everyone seems to want free energy ----I just want to conserve the energy I have first and then I will worry about the "free stuff" .

In all cases, does a higher end-voltage on the capacitor really mean higher energy than what you started with? Could you give an example with numbers? Thanks.

.99

Grumpy · « **Reply #222 on:** December 27, 2008, 06:40:14 PM »

Quote from: nul-points on December 27, 2008, 12:27:01 AM

what are you referring to here? Abba Rue's question about ionic flow? my answer?

good luck with what?

hey, i want some of what you've been drinking this holiday!!

all the best
s.

You previously posted:

Quote from: nul-points on December 26, 2008, 01:48:56 PM

if you construct it with a dielectric which can support ion flow, not just electron polarisation
eg. water in its liquid phase can exhibit both these properties - in its solid phase the ion flow reduces significantly

all the best
s.

You may want to read up on dielectrics and ions.

If a dielectric supports ion flow but not electron flow - it is a simi-conductor and not a true dielectric. Dielectrics do not permit electron or ion flow unless the undergo breakdown and become conductive then they are no longer dielectrics.

Grumpy · « **Reply #223 on:** December 27, 2008, 06:45:26 PM »

Quote from: allcanadian on December 26, 2008, 02:50:57 AM

@poynt99I think it should be clarified that the capacitor 50% rule only applies in one circumstance, this does not mean it applies in every circumstance-----there is a very big difference. For instance using an large self-inductance coil and a switch I can charge a capacitor to 400v from a 12v source battery in one single pulse, now how can this 50% rule apply when I have charged the capacitor 388v above the source voltage?. Now what do you think the system efficiency is when you consider the fact that 376v on the capacitor can be returned back to the source? Your rules only apply if you keep doing the same thing over and over, thankfully many here no longer subscribe to that kind of mentality---- we do things a little different .

Doing this, you st ill have not increased the voltage applied to the capacitor - which was 400v not 12v.

I'm sure everyone is getting tired of the "we do things different" babble when it is wrong.

@ EVERYONE

What is a capacitor? and how does it work?

AbbaRue · « **Reply #224 on:** December 27, 2008, 08:13:48 PM »

I always remember that a capacitor exchanges time for energy.
If a capacitor takes 10 s to charge and you discharge it in 1 s you have about 10x the energy.
Now if we can find a way to slow time down for the capacitor while keeping our selves in a regular time flow.

As for ionic flow in a capacitor maybe this does happen in electrolytic capacitors to some extent.
In an electrolytic capacitor one of the plates is a liquid Aluminum hydroxide used to be used.
I don't know if they still use it in the modern ones. Easy to find out though just google it.

As far as dielectrics go: I always wondered what would happen if you used a semiconductor in place of it in a capacitor.
I mean using the opposite semiconductor to the charge on a plate, so current wants to flow towards each plate.

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Author Topic: OU/COP>1 switched cap PS cct like Tesla's 'charge siphoning' (Read 145122 times)

AbbaRue

Re: OU/COP>1 switched cap PS cct like Tesla's 'charge siphoning'

nul-points

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nul-points

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