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Author Topic: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost  (Read 17499 times)

Pirate88179

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2007, 02:13:12 AM »
Freezer:

If this is possible, and I underline if, I believe it will be done with a combination of various devices and approaches, just as you are saying. It may not be possible but, that is what intrigued me about combining the SMOT and the gravity wheel. It may require a different approach entirely or adding yet another technology to it.  I just love the chase.  I wish I had an old pinball machine...can you imagine the great parts you could salvage from that?

Bill
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Pirate88179

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2007, 03:07:18 AM »
Freezer:

Have you done any modeling yet?  I would be very interested to see what you have come up with.

Bill
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shruggedatlas

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2007, 04:03:47 AM »
Quote from: Freezer on October 10, 2007, 01:53:17 AM
Perhaps we need a combination of a smot, gravity wheel, and perhaps something else all together.

Since neither the smot nor the gravity wheel help in any way, why not just leave them out and just focus on the something else?

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Freezer

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2007, 04:42:10 AM »
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 12, 2007, 03:07:18 AM
Freezer:

Have you done any modeling yet?  I would be very interested to see what you have come up with.

Bill

I posted a rendering in the cambell thread, but I haven't added other designs into yet.  I kind of have to draw it on paper and work out the ideas first, and then see if it fits and can work in 3d.
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Pirate88179

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2007, 05:33:31 AM »
Shruggedatlas:

Has anyone tried the SMOT coupled with the gravity wheel?  Maybe not.  Maybe not for a good reason.  But, if it has not been attempted then what's wrong with giving it a try?  They claim on here that SMOT is overunity...including Stephan,  I don't know this to be a fact but they say it is.  So, if, and I mean IF, that is the case, then I think my experiments will at least teach me something. It will either work, or not.  If not, and probability says that will be the case, I will learn yet another thing not to do.  I have spent most of my life learning what not to do.  Why should I stop now???? (smile)


Bill
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billmehess

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 10:17:17 AM »
The smot will not work with a gravity wheel. There is a misconception that the smot ball has a lot of force when it reaches or exits the end of the ramp. Just the opposite is true.
I understand the concept here is to have the smot setup on the wheel to in effect pull the wheel through the sticky point and then gravity would do the rest. The sticky point would simply stop the wheel, it will not pull though. If you spun the wheel hard it might pull through a couple of times due to inertia but it will eventually stop when the energy needed to get past the sticky point is greater than the inertia
that sent the wheel spinning.
Remember in a regular smot setup at a low angle when the ball does go over the end of the uchannel it goes over very slowly. It drops down and does not simply "shoot off" the end. Very very little force at that point.
Again gravity wheels simply do not work.
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gaby de wilde

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 10:48:09 AM »
Quote
Again gravity wheels simply do not work.

What are people trying to accomplish with saying this AGAIN and AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN and AGAIN AND AGAIN. I think this is a theory involving absolutes and dogma. Like an universal truth that must apply always and everywhere just because.

I mean you have any proof of it?

Without proof I can argue it works the other way around, gravity engines are so simple it's a miracle we haven't figured it out jet.

We must be occupied with something else right?  LOL
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gaby de wilde

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 10:49:49 AM »
Quote from: Low-Q on October 07, 2007, 02:21:06 PM
A SMOT in a closed loop you'll find that the sum of all forces acting on the rotor is 0.

Say's who?
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gaby de wilde

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2007, 11:00:18 AM »
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 10, 2007, 02:13:12 AM
Freezer:

If this is possible, and I underline if, I believe it will be done with a combination of various devices and approaches, just as you are saying. It may not be possible but, that is what intrigued me about combining the SMOT and the gravity wheel. It may require a different approach entirely or adding yet another technology to it.  I just love the chase.  I wish I had an old pinball machine...can you imagine the great parts you could salvage from that?

Bill

I had added the Chas device and spiralling the balls inwards (should that be in the golden ratio?).

(http://img.go-here.nl/chas-is-cool.png)

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Pirate88179

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2007, 07:07:08 PM »
Gaby:

Nice drawing!  What software did you use?  Interesting concept there.

Bill
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Low-Q

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 11:15:53 PM »
Quote from: gaby de wilde on October 12, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
Quote from: Low-Q on October 07, 2007, 02:21:06 PM
A SMOT in a closed loop you'll find that the sum of all forces acting on the rotor is 0.

Say's who?
Use some common sense, and you'll figure out ;)
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Low-Q

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 11:27:36 PM »
Quote from: gaby de wilde on October 12, 2007, 11:00:18 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 10, 2007, 02:13:12 AM
Freezer:

If this is possible, and I underline if, I believe it will be done with a combination of various devices and approaches, just as you are saying. It may not be possible but, that is what intrigued me about combining the SMOT and the gravity wheel. It may require a different approach entirely or adding yet another technology to it.  I just love the chase.  I wish I had an old pinball machine...can you imagine the great parts you could salvage from that?

Bill

I had added the Chas device and spiralling the balls inwards (should that be in the golden ratio?).

(http://img.go-here.nl/chas-is-cool.png)


Concider the red ball right before it drops outside the SMOT-ramp. What force are moving the ball up the ramp? Magnetic force! What prevents the same magnetic force to work on the same ball right after it has start dropping? Nothing! So the acceleration of the ball downwards is therfor not 9,81m/s2, but less.

So the ball does not have the natural acceleration of gravity, because of the influence of magnetic fields that is holding the ball back a bit.

So when the ball is suppose to enter the SMOT again, the magnetic force at the beginning of the SMOT, and the reduced acceleration of the ball + friction, is not sufficiant to make a closed loop. Nice drawing, but no hope ;)

Br.

Vidar
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hansvonlieven

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 11:36:48 PM »
G'day all,

If you can get that sort of gradient with a smot, what do you need the wheel for??

Hans von Lieven
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gaby de wilde

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2007, 06:19:43 AM »
Quote from: Low-Q on October 12, 2007, 11:27:36 PM
Quote from: gaby de wilde on October 12, 2007, 11:00:18 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 10, 2007, 02:13:12 AM
Freezer:
If this is possible, and I underline if, I believe it will be done with a combination of various devices and approaches, just as you are saying. It may not be possible but, that is what intrigued me about combining the SMOT and the gravity wheel. It may require a different approach entirely or adding yet another technology to it.  I just love the chase.  I wish I had an old pinball machine...can you imagine the great parts you could salvage from that?

Bill

I had added the Chas device and spiralling the balls inwards (should that be in the golden ratio?).

(http://img.go-here.nl/chas-is-cool.png)
Concider the red ball right before it drops outside the SMOT-ramp. What force are moving the ball up the ramp? Magnetic force! What prevents the same magnetic force to work on the same ball right after it has start dropping? Nothing! So the acceleration of the ball downwards is therfor not 9,81m/s2, but less.

Yes, it's less then 9.8 but it's not zero either. :)

Say we have 2 ramps

1 ramp of zero degrees

1 ramp of 10 degrees utilising SMOT tech

the ramp under zero degrees adds a ball to the wheel. This ball is moving slower as the wheel. Either we need to use up some gravity to first accelerate the ball before deploying it or we end up slowing down the wheel while accelerating the ball. Either way: accelerating the ball costs energy.

When the ball is dropping out of a smot ramp and when the ball is passing the entrance height it is moving downwards already, when deployed onto the wheel it's moving dramatically faster as on our horizontal ramp where it was not moving vertically at all.

While using a perfectly horizontal ramp we would need energy to transport the ball to the other end. If we could borrow this from the system in an elegant way that would be a big improvement.

Quote
So the ball does not have the natural acceleration of gravity, because of the influence of magnetic fields that is holding the ball back a bit.
yes, a bit but not all the way.

I think the field makes the ball appear less heavy, it still drops as fast as a brick. Just try to levitate a coin under a magnet. Then you will see it drops just as fast, it's the impact that is reduced. This may of course still prevent the device from operating but it's very different from what you describe right? Logically it should slow down proportionally with getting it's weight back. I'm not so sure that's the case. I think it "keeps" some of the kinetic energy.

Quote
So when the ball is suppose to enter the SMOT again, the magnetic force at the beginning of the SMOT, and the reduced acceleration of the ball + friction, is not sufficiant to make a closed loop. Nice drawing, but no hope ;)

You don't have to kill hope, hope is pretty much dead and buried on this forum. :-\

Again, the SMOT is only there to transport the balls from the left to the right. If it can gain some height then hurray!

You take a stick you hold it in the center then you suspend a weight from either end. Put one weight close to you and the other one as far away as you can.

A second SMOT could be used to transport the balls back to the left again.

lemme draw it....

o wow.... I just discovered jet another trick.....

to much ideas not enough spectators.... lolzz...
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Pirate88179

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Re: Low friction gravity wheel utilizing SMOT for pulse boost
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2007, 08:43:52 AM »
Hello all:

These are very interesting ideas to be sure.  I still think that a fixed sphere on the circumference of the wheel could be made to pass through a SMOT type device on the downward side of the cycle to take advantage of the pulse from the SMOT and use the gravity to escape the sticky spot as the linear SMOTs do.  I got my wheel in yesterday and also found two others.  I rebuilt the bearings and instead of grease, I used a very light instrument oil on them.  I am now truing the wheel to minimize runout. I think I have all the magnets I need but will have to wait and see.  I think the SMOT will have to simulate the curvature of the outside diameter of the wheel, at least up to a point.  I have devised a system to allow very accurate adjustments on all axis because I think, if this will work, the answer lies in a very limited range of adjustment.  Possibly within a few 1/1000 of an inch.  I am not sure what size sphere to use but thinking of about 1/2 inch dia.  I will keep you posted on my progress, if any.  If it does not work, at least my cat enjoys playing with the spinning wheel, possibly a new cat toy worth millions... ha ha. Now if I could only find a use for used kitty litter, I would be a rich man.

Bill
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