G'day Stefan,

You are still stuck with the basic problem and that is how to rotate the entire assembly 30 degrees to bring the next ball into play when you only have 27 degrees or less to play with and only one ball to do it with. The potential energy in the system does not change with a 3 dimensional arrangement or any other arrangement.

Incidentally zero, I am a qualified engineer, physics major at that :-)

Hans von Lieven

From the starting position cambell_harti5.gif ,
when the 2 red balls have gone down to the lower rolling track,
the wheel has  lifted the next yellow ball at 11 o?clock to the
12 o?clock top position, so this ball rolls out ,
so that it becomes the
cambell_harti4.gif  position, where only 1 red ball is at the
left about 4x distance of the axis, but this
still is enough to lift the next yellow ball from the 11 o?clock to the
12 o?clock top position, so this ball rolls out again to the right.

G'day Stefan,

You are still stuck with the basic problem and that is how to rotate the entire assembly 30 degrees to bring the next ball into play when you only have 27 degrees or less to play with and only one ball to do it with. The potential energy in the system does not change with a 3 dimensional arrangement or any other arrangement.

Incidentally zero, I am a qualified engineer, physics major at that :-)

Hans von Lieven

Then why don?t you calculate  the torque arms ?
Where is my error in my calculation ?

Here it is once again:

2 balls 0.5 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
2 balls 0.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.6 units
1 ball   1.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
====================================
sum= 3.6 units

On the right side we have then only for 2 x 15 degrees:

1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

Divided by 2 cause only for 30 instead of 60 degres rotation
we still have a 3.9 versus 3.6 advantage.

A) I said "Either"   and also, I didnt call him a name.  I simply stated he was lieing
if he was saying there was no additional energy.

 Dont twist my words.

 And

B)  You dont know what the additional forces would equal out to be,
so dont be so confident.

Quote from: hansvonlieven on September 08, 2007, 02:15:24 AM

G'day Stefan,

You are still stuck with the basic problem and that is how to rotate the entire assembly 30 degrees to bring the next ball into play when you only have 27 degrees or less to play with and only one ball to do it with. The potential energy in the system does not change with a 3 dimensional arrangement or any other arrangement.

Incidentally zero, I am a qualified engineer, physics major at that :-)

Hans von Lieven

Then why don?t you calculate  the torque arms ?
Where is my error in my calculation ?

Here it is once again:

2 balls 0.5 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
2 balls 0.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.6 units
1 ball   1.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
====================================
sum= 3.6 units

On the right side we have then only for 2 x 15 degrees:

1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units
Devided by 2 cause only for 30 instead of 60 degres
we still have 3.9 versus 3.6.

you error in the calculation is that at 15 degrees on the right side, and 30 degress on the left side

you need 10 balls on the left to have 2 balls on the right to make a closed system

I am realizing how poor a web forum like this really is for discussing these kinds of things when the pace gets rolling like this.  Every verbal description that refers to a picture needs to have the picture right there with it or the scrolling gets totally out of hand.  Then people start jumping in and calling names and demanding that their view be agreed upon before anything proceeds.  Posts are entirely missed and left pages behind without ever being understood.  The discussion opens to half a dozen distracting competing tangential viewpoints.  Nine different guys decide their particular aspect is the only thing that totally explains everything.

I can see how the "fuck it, just buid it and see" attitude would develop rapidly!   

Humbugger

Suggesdtion...if we really want to nail anything down, let's let Stephan moderate.  Stephan, please have your diagram of reference in each post so we can stay on one page.  Pose4 a qestion...ask for various answers.  Then move on.

Probably much easier said than done...

Edit now it shows right...

Okay, Hum,
here again with the 2 pics over each other:

Starting point:

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2487.0;attach=12541)
From the starting position
when the 2 red balls have gone down to the lower rolling track,
the wheel has  lifted the next yellow ball at 11 o?clock to the
12 o?clock top position, so this ball rolls out ,
so that it becomes the
cambell_harti4.gif  position, where only 1 red ball is at the
left about 4x distance of the axis, but this
still is enough to lift the next yellow ball from the 11 o?clock to the
12 o?clock top position, so this ball rolls out again to the right.

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2487.0;attach=12539)

pass me the specs.. I'll draw it.. well I will if you want me too.. 

assumption is now 4x sized wheel with 15 degrees between ball holders?

if that's the case, I'll draw it..

stephan you can msn me, or icq, or aim, or skype.. just pm me