Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here: https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

Custom Search

### Author Topic: Allan's Transformer as a Generator  (Read 25233 times)

#### leonelogb

• Full Member
• Posts: 122
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2020, 10:16:05 PM »
Hi Jeg,

It is best to only concentrate on the link and the flux because for in transformer power and size calculations it is not considered.

The magnetizing current could be 15% of the load but as was explained previously not all that current is used to make the flux.
With 240volts, in one instant only wire resistance is seen and then in another instant to create opposing flux that is 80% on the way to saturation of the core.
The magnetizing current is 90degrees out of phase with the reflected load current and by vectors the sum of the two add to very little more than the load current alone.

When the Flux is generated by a floating supply between the I/P and O/P windings it becomes a generator. The capacitor input produces the swings of potential that are reflected in the output as well.

In a generator it is the rate of change of the magnetic field and the strength of that field that gives the output. It is just being done in two coils at once while their magnetic fields cancel at maximum current.

Calculations can be used to size but it has to be determined how much extra flux is acceptable at a certain frequency. The core material may get too hot and at high frequency be destroyed.

The flux increase could be up to four times increased and would mean less turns, less heat in the windings but more in the core.

Regards,

Allan
Hi Allen,
https://overunity.com/18601/alans-transformer-as-a-generator/msg550030/#msg550030

I would like to understand how the diagram you put in the link above is structured.
I think I am understanding the concept of the two main coils, one cw and one ccw as you have already explained on different occasions, it looks like what Chris has been talking about, Although they seem different, I think it is the same but with different applications, If you are kind enough to complete the questions and details that are in it, please!

The way you have managed to control the power supply of the bucking coil through a minimum input is the first part that I would like to understand, so I break down the diagram to be able to understand its details clearly,

Another thing, I am planning to make a small book with his teachings and diagrams, do not worry that it is not to sell, just to read several times until I understand everything God willing.

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2020, 11:12:28 PM »
Hi Allen,
https://overunity.com/18601/alans-transformer-as-a-generator/msg550030/#msg550030

I would like to understand how the diagram you put in the link above is structured.
I think I am understanding the concept of the two main coils, one cw and one ccw as you have already explained on different occasions, it looks like what Chris has been talking about, Although they seem different, I think it is the same but with different applications, If you are kind enough to complete the questions and details that are in it, please!

The way you have managed to control the power supply of the bucking coil through a minimum input is the first part that I would like to understand, so I break down the diagram to be able to understand its details clearly,

Another thing, I am planning to make a small book with his teachings and diagrams, do not worry that it is not to sell, just to read several times until I understand everything God willing.

Hi Leonelogb,

The windings are wound in the same direction on the core but the current goes through them in opposite directions.

The main circuit windings I/P, O/P are of bigger area, or larger diameter, because more current flows through them.

I have 0.8mm enameled copper therefore this is used for the smaller wire. It is best to have 15% difference in turns between the large diameter and the smaller.

I have used 1.5mm for the heavier enameled wire for up to 15 ampere and the 0.8mm for up to  2 ampere.

If the larger diameter wire has 40turns then the smaller diameter wire will be 15% different, if more 46turns if less 34turns make a tapping in the 0.8mm windings and color code them.

The core will be wound with all of them and will need to be worked out. I have previously used two cores with the two windings on each.

I reuse the enameled wire from big transformers that have been pulled apart. Insulation material is used between layers when winding is done.

Two inverters are off the same controller and consist of 4 square wave pulses one after the other. for a first try use a 555 and a 4017, a buffer circuit will protect the outputs to the gates of the mosfets.
Use 12 volts and square wave pulses to switch the mosfets in turn.  A variable 0-15volt power supply would be best.

The small transformers need to be of the correct size.
The input windings need to be tightly wound on a core and for 12volts 74turns are required (1volt/5.5turns at 50Hz) add 10%. They need to be center tapped therefore 148turns.
The output windings also need to be center tapped but only 70 turns are necessary.

The core will have to be worked out

I am going to build a new model, and will post pictures.

Allan

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2020, 12:31:41 AM »
Hi Allen,
https://overunity.com/18601/alans-transformer-as-a-generator/msg550030/#msg550030

I would like to understand how the diagram you put in the link above is structured.
I think I am understanding the concept of the two main coils, one cw and one ccw as you have already explained on different occasions, it looks like what Chris has been talking about, Although they seem different, I think it is the same but with different applications, If you are kind enough to complete the questions and details that are in it, please!

The way you have managed to control the power supply of the bucking coil through a minimum input is the first part that I would like to understand, so I break down the diagram to be able to understand its details clearly,

Another thing, I am planning to make a small book with his teachings and diagrams, do not worry that it is not to sell, just to read several times until I understand everything God willing.

Hi,

There are two conditions, the increase and decrease in current in alternate i/p o/p circuits and then the voltage cycle. The current cycle potentially draws a lot of current because only wire resistance is seen. The currents are less when there is flux in the core but it takes voltage to assist in driving down the flux to get maximum current, these currents cross over and then the flux builds up as the currents decrease.
I was going to post a picture of all the transformers etc in the project but there is a lot to do to build everything necessary. For a first try it is too much for you I would say.

What is required is some lamination steel and bobbins. Small transformers, about 70mm across the top. 1mm or 0.8mm wire is good for a few amps it depends how much voltage is made. 2amps x 240volt is 480watt.

Build a two winding transformer with 15% difference in turns  90, 110 with a gap, build another without a gap with 30, 34 turns.
Join the 90,110 at one end and connect the 30 to 110 and 34 to 90. Connect Positive to the join 90,110 and in two separate circuits pulse the 30 and 34 together but turn the 30 off first.
Put a diode and a capacitor in the circuit and collect the reverse current and voltage. Those windings in both transformers will now have voltage across them.

Place a diode and capacitor in the other circuit as well. The instant the mosfet is switched off close to the same voltage will appear on these windings as well.

The only thing missing is the current flowing in a circle and this is where a pulse can increase the output. It must be switched ON immediately, instantly, the other last mosfet is switched OFF.

It has to be a floating supply therefore it will need a small transformer where the pulse is on the input to drive the current in a circle through the output.
The voltage of back EMF in one set of windings is almost the same as the output voltage and it does not actually take much to over come this and drive a current in a circle through different ampere turns to produce high current with high voltage.  Volts x amps makes Watts.
This setup will still produce a good output.

Allan

#### leonelogb

• Full Member
• Posts: 122
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2020, 02:53:50 AM »
My brother, your time is greatly appreciated for all that information that you have shared.

There is definitely a lot of work that need to be done, that's why not everybody has this in their hands. But it is more difficult to get a person willing to share his knowledge, efforts and patience with others, it is appreciated.

Ok, let's get to work, let me see that I will be able to use whatever I have in hand and the rest; online will be bought God willing. It will take a little of time but I can put pic of how I'm going.

Hi Leonelogb,

The windings are wound in the same direction on the core but the current goes through them in opposite directions.

The main circuit windings I/P, O/P are of bigger area, or larger diameter, because more current flows through them.

I have 0.8mm enameled copper therefore this is used for the smaller wire. It is best to have 15% difference in turns between the large diameter and the smaller.

I have used 1.5mm for the heavier enameled wire for up to 15 ampere and the 0.8mm for up to  2 ampere.

If the larger diameter wire has 40turns then the smaller diameter wire will be 15% different, if more 46turns if less 34turns make a tapping in the 0.8mm windings and color code them.

The core will be wound with all of them and will need to be worked out. I have previously used two cores with the two windings on each.

I reuse the enameled wire from big transformers that have been pulled apart. Insulation material is used between layers when winding is done.

Two inverters are off the same controller and consist of 4 square wave pulses one after the other. for a first try use a 555 and a 4017, a buffer circuit will protect the outputs to the gates of the mosfets.
Use 12 volts and square wave pulses to switch the mosfets in turn.  A variable 0-15volt power supply would be best.

The small transformers need to be of the correct size.
The input windings need to be tightly wound on a core and for 12volts 74turns are required (1volt/5.5turns at 50Hz) add 10%. They need to be center tapped therefore 148turns.
The output windings also need to be center tapped but only 70 turns are necessary.

The core will have to be worked out

I am going to build a new model, and will post pictures.

Allan

#### leonelogb

• Full Member
• Posts: 122
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2020, 02:58:18 AM »
Thank you so much again, very specific

Hi,

There are two conditions, the increase and decrease in current in alternate i/p o/p circuits and then the voltage cycle. The current cycle potentially draws a lot of current because only wire resistance is seen. The currents are less when there is flux in the core but it takes voltage to assist in driving down the flux to get maximum current, these currents cross over and then the flux builds up as the currents decrease.
I was going to post a picture of all the transformers etc in the project but there is a lot to do to build everything necessary. For a first try it is too much for you I would say.

What is required is some lamination steel and bobbins. Small transformers, about 70mm across the top. 1mm or 0.8mm wire is good for a few amps it depends how much voltage is made. 2amps x 240volt is 480watt.

Build a two winding transformer with 15% difference in turns  90, 110 with a gap, build another without a gap with 30, 34 turns.
Join the 90,110 at one end and connect the 30 to 110 and 34 to 90. Connect Positive to the join 90,110 and in two separate circuits pulse the 30 and 34 together but turn the 30 off first.
Put a diode and a capacitor in the circuit and collect the reverse current and voltage. Those windings in both transformers will now have voltage across them.

Place a diode and capacitor in the other circuit as well. The instant the mosfet is switched off close to the same voltage will appear on these windings as well.

The only thing missing is the current flowing in a circle and this is where a pulse can increase the output. It must be switched ON immediately, instantly, the other last mosfet is switched OFF.

It has to be a floating supply therefore it will need a small transformer where the pulse is on the input to drive the current in a circle through the output.
The voltage of back EMF in one set of windings is almost the same as the output voltage and it does not actually take much to over come this and drive a current in a circle through different ampere turns to produce high current with high voltage.  Volts x amps makes Watts.
This setup will still produce a good output.

Allan

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2020, 07:35:35 AM »
Thank you so much again, very specific

Hi,

My mind went a bit blank this morning. The previous post would give half the principle, it would pay to go bigger with the core and double wind with 15% tappings. Get the full effect.

It may be best if you can find the transformers cheap enough to just copy what I am doing for this next power supply.

A lamination 115 x76, window 19x52, 38x45 bobbin. It will have 4 windings 2@ 55turns 0.8 enameled wire, on first. 2@45 turns x 2.0 enameled wire on last, insulate between rows. Your smaller transformer could work but if it is welded that makes it difficult to get a part without some damage.

The transformer with the gap is wide window 175mm and a 50mmx50mm core area.

If you want to use what you posted just strip it and then find some wire. The bigger the core area the less windings usually. The small transformer will need thinner wire and will have less output.
Do not put too much wire onto the bobbin it becomes a nuisance. The wire as a rule of thumb fills the space to 40%.

Once set up it is not difficult to wind but care must be taken. Keep it tidy and without any abrasion on the wire other wise there will be shorts and failure.

The three phase transformer is not the best for this project. It is a bit small.

2mm wire on two windings, each with a 15% tapping. My transformer has 300turns + 30 on each winding 1.5mm enameled wire.
I have a lot of choices with what has been accumulated. It will be tried to see what happens. It may be rewound with 2mm wire and less
turns.

all the best,

Allan

#### Jeg

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1532
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2020, 10:58:12 AM »
Hi all

Allan may i ask, what did make you to go with Amber/Turns variation instead of the phase shift method?

I think a hall sensor inserted in to the core gap would help a lot to visualize any flux changes. Probably we should start by building the right equipment first before testing the idea.

For example
http://www.electronoobs.com/eng_circuitos_tut12_1.php

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2020, 12:01:00 AM »
Hi all

Allan may i ask, what did make you to go with Amber/Turns variation instead of the phase shift method?

I think a hall sensor inserted in to the core gap would help a lot to visualize any flux changes. Probably we should start by building the right equipment first before testing the idea.

For example
http://www.electronoobs.com/eng_circuitos_tut12_1.php

Hi Jeg,

Experimenting is a long and slightly tortuous path and leads to many dead ends. Each parameter needs to be explored to reduce error. It is a lot of work. But in retrospect it becomes obvious and simple.
Thanks for showing the circuit, I have all the parts necessary to build it.

The flux gain is significant it is noticeable just by placing a piece of metal close to the gap. And it also shows in the output wave form and voltage increase.

The transformer as a generator, rate of change and strength of the mag field produces the output.

When a current does the circle with a floating supply through uneven turns there is opposition as flux is produced. But it seems that this is necessary to put some tension between the windings and the turns ratio does not allow them to produce too much flux. Saturation occurs when the current increase is greater than the core flux can accept. Once this ratio is established the hi volt pulse current will mostly become AT and then become flux in the core.

To change the flux quickly the currents must cross over. Each current must take a turn at being the greater in one semi cycle, or half wave.
I takes no great DC power to do this when it is compared to the output.
DC only could be used but to cross to the next semi cycle, voltage must be built and then released to expel the flux for maximum current where the currents again cross over.

The transformer usually operates just above the residual magnetism that stays in the core with no current at all. It is driving down this residual flux to the opposite polarity that gives the best output.

If two phase shifted circuits are used the input will draw maximum current but still has not addressed the problem of potential saturation.
What is being sought here is a substantial flux increase which means a smaller device with fewer turns. Heat is usually the problem IR conductor losses and the core losses. The core losses are two fold and there appears to be a sticking point where the flux will not usually exceed a certain amount.
If the length of the flux path can be shortened it is a bonus as well.

If you have doubts, fair enough. But a starting point is presented that could save a lot of work.

Accepted that to commit to making anything, materials and parts have to be purchased or found from junked parts.

Bigger is easier in some ways, if every thing is too small and wire too thin it is difficult, 0.5mm the smallest for ease. A hand winder with a counter helps.
Anything above 2mm has its own difficulties on a small core. Using multiple wire needs a good setup.

It is noted that you are thinking about how to make it easier.

A couple of L298N stepper motor drivers and a battery to isolate them from Hi volt circuit.
Two home made, wound coils, are all that is needed, one with a gap.
Experimenting is different to building. There is a different mind set.

All the best,

Allan

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2020, 01:19:07 AM »
Hi all

Allan may i ask, what did make you to go with Amber/Turns variation instead of the phase shift method?

I think a hall sensor inserted in to the core gap would help a lot to visualize any flux changes. Probably we should start by building the right equipment first before testing the idea.

For example
http://www.electronoobs.com/eng_circuitos_tut12_1.php

Hi Jeg,

Just a thought, with a hall sensor the 80 watt transformer test could be verified.

With 240volts on the transformer check the flux outside the core and note the current as well. The RMS current will be greater than a DC current applied next. Why is there a difference?

Disconnect the 240volt power and take a 1.5volt battery and connect this to the 240 volt I/P winding. Place a diode across the winding to stop any spikes.

A reduction to 0.9volts is best therefore a resistor is needed plus a variable one helps. Check the flux outside the core with a meter.

This indicates the DC equivalent and power in the link. The output current dampens the flux and transformers need a 10% over wind on the output to make up the voltage.

In an 80watt transformer with 0.032watt in the link it calculated out to 1/2500th of the load.

When a low power DC current is applied to the two winding set up the flux makes a full change and it represents half the full wave.

But the magnetism is to drive the link and would not produce much power into a load. A setup must include an I/P and an O/P, one leading and one lagging.

Allan

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2020, 02:47:39 AM »
Hi all

Allan may i ask, what did make you to go with Amber/Turns variation instead of the phase shift method?

Hi, another thought as an explanation.

When the link flux is modulated the current flow increases significantly. An example is a three phase motor 5kw and 5x+ current at start up, there is no way that power is producing the flux. It is impossible. The generator and the meter notice the power consumption of course.
When a magnetic field is created it does work and when that field collapses it gives back most of what has been used. If the circuit is not interrupted the current comes from the source generator. Each phase in the motor is tightly linked and current draw is balanced between them.
The rewind variable speed drive with a 5Kw input only needs 50Watts maximum to control it. This 50watts DC field is the only link between the 5Kw input and output shaft load.

With a phase shift method;
If the phases are 180degrees opposed plus the input and output driver driven situation the modulation of the small flux allows the maximum current to flow as the voltage increases. This current needs to be redirected.

It would still require another winding on each of the input and output, 15% more or less and a floating supply to pass a current around in a circle through each pair. This creates the increase and decrease in the field. Another inductor would be required to direct the current in a leading capacitor circuit and the lagging load circuit.
What is being done is to create a variation of current in each separate I/P O/P circuit in relation to each other without any reference point except the flux creation.

A phase shift could increase with flux increase and there would be nothing added to the output.

Allan

#### Jeg

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1532
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2020, 08:10:47 AM »
Hi Allan
Thanks a lot for your detailed explanations and thought sharing.

So it is clear that iron cores need very little power to establish the magnetic link. Also i keep in mind that needs some time for this action to happen in an iron core. Time that becomes far less when we use ferrite cores. But what about air cores? I wonder, can this principle be applied when air is used as a core? Saturation would not be a problem anymore and looks like switching the flux would take even less time and power.

Jeg

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2020, 12:02:16 AM »
Hi Allan
Thanks a lot for your detailed explanations and thought sharing.

So it is clear that iron cores need very little power to establish the magnetic link. Also i keep in mind that needs some time for this action to happen in an iron core. Time that becomes far less when we use ferrite cores. But what about air cores? I wonder, can this principle be applied when air is used as a core? Saturation would not be a problem anymore and looks like switching the flux would take even less time and power.

Jeg

Hi Jeg,

The iron core does limit the frequency therefore time is a factor. But in general it is not the time but the rate of flux increase without some control that is the problem. Iron contains the field and links the currents strongly. Generally heat determines size and output, but if a greater field, then less core area and turns, helps dramatically.
It is possible to get flux in the core as quickly as it is expelled. Iron is not a problem at all for household use.

The technique previously described is the only way known to get FE from coils.

Whether iron, ferrite, or air, the only difference would be size and the maximum frequency and the cost of controlling with high speed switching.

A practical low cost device for daily use is the aim. Charging batteries and buying an inverter is an option. My power cost is \$400per year
and it is small compared with the cost of building and maintaining my own power system.

Large diameter solid copper conductors can produce power and a lot of current if a magnetic field is applied directly on and around the conductor in the correct manner.

The main focus should be all the devices that need high inrush currents and over the top power consumption.

EV's are ridiculous. One horse, low speed high torque, would do a lot at one time but now we drive around cracking the whip on 100 horses at least.

All the best,

Allan

#### Thaelin

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1093
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2020, 05:20:02 PM »
Must these transformers be the standard E core type or can torrids be used? I have a couple of them with 40v dual secondaries but it is only center tapped.
thay

#### AllanV

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 54
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2020, 10:41:01 PM »
Must these transformers be the standard E core type or can torrids be used? I have a couple of them with 40v dual secondaries but it is only center tapped.
thay

Hi,

It was found that a gap is best on one of the transformers, this would be the way to reduce the residual magnetism for the resonant input circuit.

Toroidal transformers are not able to be used on the main gapped transformer of course but it would work with the other current controlling transformer. The tapping would have to be separated to make individual windings. The number of turns would have to be worked out and then another two windings of heavier wire with 15% less (32-34volts) on each wound onto it. These would then be for the power circuits.
The usual input high voltage winding would not be used at all because no useful power would be developed on it.

It is all about generating in the link between input and output and it is very small.

There would need to be a bit of experimenting if mains voltage output and frequency is required.

E core Laminations and formers plus extras are able to been purchased and this is convenient but E core transformers can be pulled apart carefully.
Many large transformers can been collected from redundant scrap and are as new more often than not.

The smaller driving transformer does not have a gap. It is more to dampen the current into the low ohms of the larger transformer with the gap.

Even a modest number of turns can produce 400 volts at 100pulses /sec frequency. There is a tendency to over do it.

On the bench now is a 134mm (7in) across the top reduced down to 50mm x 50mm core area, 1mm gap in the magnetic circuit, transformer. It has two 300 turn 1.5mm windings with two 30 turn 1.5mm windings that add to make 330 on the input and output.

It will be tried and it may be that it can be cut down to reduce the flux path and also reduce the turns.

The other transformer is 115mm (4.5in) across the top with a core area of 38mm x 45mm length 52mm no gap.

Four windings two 1.5mm  45 turns, two 0.8 56 turns, these control the current in I/P O/P circuits. These windings complete the circuit through the transformer with the gap. It may allow alternate positive negative pulses to drive it, but otherwise DC will be switched into the different 15% variation of the windings.

The aim is 2Kw. It will take a few more days work.

Allan

#### leonelogb

• Full Member
• Posts: 122
##### Re: Alan's Transformer as a Generator
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2020, 11:38:35 PM »
Hi Alan,
I have gotten part of the stuff I need for the project, check the pic, I have also added the diagram of how I plan to do it, please review it and let me know if I have to modify something else.

For that core I bought 1.5 mm wire, I'm waiting for it to arrive this week and after your confirmation then I'll start.
Since this core is not very big, it is only to start this as a mini project. (as you can see), Then after that the Big one God willing.