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Author Topic: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)  (Read 10426 times)

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2020, 04:57:58 AM »
Hi Kajunbee,

These are not solenoidal coils, they are flat pancake coils.  We don't use the axial field that passes through the coils, we use the radial field that passes over the flat surface of the coils.  In the bucking configuration the axial fields from each coil do indeed oppose each other, but the radial fields between the two coils are additive.

Smudge

So would I be correct in saying that you effectively create a Quadrapole magnetic field also referred to as anti-Helmholtz magnetic trap. Looking forward to your response and thank you for your time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2020, 04:57:58 AM »

Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2020, 09:20:26 AM »
So would I be correct in saying that you effectively create a Quadrapole magnetic field

Yes, two magnetic dipoles back to back create a linear magnetic quadrupole.  But normally the terms dipole or quadrupole are reserved for poles that are points sources, and that is not the case for current loops.  For the pancake coils it is quite difficult to define where the poles are, they are spread out through space.  If you put a cylindrical box around both coils then the two flat surfaces of that cylinder can be considered say N poles while the curved surface is a S pole (or vice versa).  That may look like a tripole and many people fall into the trap of calling it a tripole, but in fact when two dipoles are brought together so that the mating poles merge into each other you end up with just three poles, but the correct name is a linear quadrupole. (A square quadrupole has the two dipoles side by side and then there are four separate poles)

Smudge

Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2020, 11:02:45 AM »
......................also referred to as anti-Helmholtz magnetic trap.
Such traps do not use pancake coils but yes, the two coils in opposition act somewhat like those traps.  Classical Helmholtz coils create a cylindrical spatial region where samples may be put so as to be in a uniform axial field.  This anti-Helmholtz arrangement using pancake coils creates an annular spatial region where our circular water sample may be put so as to be withing a radial field.

Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2020, 11:02:45 AM »
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Offline stivep

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2020, 02:43:36 PM »
This Board is set up to encourage experimentation of NMR as a potential source of over unity-energy.  Nuclei having a magnetic moment precess around a magnetic field at the Larmor frequency. 
If all the nuclei in a sample can be made to precess in synchronism then they can act like a perpetual generator supplying power.
That this may be possible is evidence by Ramsay (one of the early researchers into NMR) where he describes the experiment
as a spin system at negative temperature where he states “
It was found for example that, when a negative temperature spin system was subjected to resonance radiation,
more radiant energy was given off by the spin system than was absorbed”.   The attached paper gives details of the experiment.
Smudge
When someone speaks Chinese the only  left for us Westerners  form  of communication is paper  drawing and  sign language for hearing- impaired   individuals.
Language  of physics uses characters of e.g English language  adds to it its own symbols, forms equations, meanings  and rules needed to communicate in this language.
 
So  lets take  Chinese trying to explain something in Chinese,+ sign+ drawings, but he doesn't know  physics and is totally wrong.What would you learn  from him?
Chinese  students are occupying our American  universities  to be able to communicate in our universal English language.
But  if they are not educated in language of physics than their English explanation  may be  incorrect.
So some of them who knows  English  and are in Physics  can  correct other Chinese..

Conclusion:
every language  doesn't need to explain  meaning of blocks of information  widely known with words such as: Earth, air, flow, mechanics, baby, art, and so on..
But there are  professionals in e.g mechanics and some others in science of e.g mechanics.
Their knowledge is higher  than average Joe in that particular field.
________________________________
So you Smudge need to  try to talk in language of physics using English   descriptors .
But what if you  only know English  but  only to some extend  physics?
Well than you need help from these who speaks physics better..

But how do you know that someone is not wrong in physics and knows it better than you?
Well By  using process of verification  in the internet  you can differentiate between  e.g dull Russian troll  and  professional.
Yes : Talented Russian troll may fool you too because he is paid money for  confusing you and sending into wrong  path.
Yes:  there are people like me who are not paid  and dedicate their time  for others to understand physics better.
Yes:  I can be mistaken too , but that will be surprise to myself too.
__________________________________________________________
over unity-energy.  doesn't exist never existed and will never exist.
perpetual generator supplying power.
perpetual motion is fiction. It doesn't exist never existed and will never exist.
Eather  doesn't exist never existed and will never exist. but it was just  a concept- a model rejected by science .
so these meanings or information blocks  must be excluded as  totally wrong till anyone will come with supporting  it explanation.
But using these blocks to explain anything is wrong.
Example :
 1. Using magic or God teaching to explain   
difference between effect of sperm of  human  causing  birth, and other mammals sperm causing the same.

2. physics doesn't recognize any "gods or any magic" so these blocks must be excluded  as false models of the past
for physics we are just HUMAN ANIMALS  whether you like  it or not ....
____________________________________________________________
conclusion:
we may find  and I'm sure that there  is  way to  use NMR 
in the processes associated with energy conversion and energy extraction .And this alone is worth of my time  here.

Wesley

Offline stivep

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2020, 02:44:46 PM »
I do thank you for this topic as it is  important to our FE community
 
Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2020, 02:44:46 PM »
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Offline stivep

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2020, 03:00:40 PM »
.

Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2020, 05:40:05 PM »
Here another Update [with permission of experimenters]
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3924.msg83026;topicseen#msg83026
with respect
and gratitude   Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2020, 05:40:05 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2020, 01:23:40 AM »
preliminary run thru [not ready to test yet ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57KryMiFsG8

Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2020, 02:21:15 PM »
and another experiment fixture with spec Data [yet to be run at the task]


https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3924.msg83066;topicseen#msg83066

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2020, 02:21:15 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2020, 11:19:13 PM »
Why they do what they do.... and what it actually means if successful ...


https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3924.msg83085;topicseen#msg83085

Offline stivep

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2020, 12:45:08 AM »
verpies post is brilliant.
In:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg547764/#msg547764
I presented  an amplifier  made for NMR.
But my question to you guys is  we  took electromagnetic energy and converted it to proton precession
we saw this energy  on the oscilloscope and than what?
Can any one of you explain me what is the goal?
Wesley :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2020, 12:45:08 AM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2020, 12:54:55 PM »
In reply to Verpies rant, may I offer my own rant.
Quote
.........................In this entire endeavor (this thread) we are trying to convert the AC electric energy from the source into a third form of energy - the energy of proton's precession**, and to detect this energy.

I would not use the word "convert".  Conversion of one form of energy into another brings in the whole thorny concept of CoE.  I would say that in this endeavour we are trying to use the AC electrical energy of the source to enable energy to be extracted from the perpetual precession motions of the protons.  I think this "conversion" aspect comes from the quantum mechanical approach where you define the splitting of energy levels (see image below) which doesn't convey the actual precession motion of the spinning nucleus.  I come from the old school where I believe the nucleus does actually spin and precess, that precession motion exists and is perpetual but is so random between atoms that it does not create observable signals.  Yes you need to apply energy in order to see a signal, and certainly in the usual pulsed NMR experiments the quantum mechanical approach supplies the answer for the needed energies.  But if the precession motions are perpetual and our energy input has merely taken away the randomness, why can't we keep this cohered state going forever and continually extract energy from those precessions?  Ramsey's observations some 70 years ago suggests this may be possible.  That then begs the question, why in the last 70 years has no one followed this up or found out how to do it?  I think this may be due to the classical NMR experimental approach using solenoidal coils where the material sample containing the nuclei under investigation is within that coil.  The scientists use "filling factor" to define the volume of the sample in relation to the volume of the solenoid.  At 100% filling factor it is assumed that this gives maximum coupling between the sample and the coil.  However those of us skilled in the art know that, if we treat the sample as a form of magnetic core, that core will suffer a demagnetization effect.  The only way to eliminate such demagnetization is by use of very long thin solenoid-plus-cores, or the use of ring cores with toroidal windings.  The former leads to problems in maintaining the uniformity of the crossed static field along the length of the solenoid, and as far as I know no one has attempted the use of the ring core approach.  The cylindrical symmetry of the static field from disc magnets offers uniformity of the crossed field throughout the ring sample, and the toroidal coil offers maximum coupling with no demagnetization effects.
         
Quote
This is a different form of energy from the two listed above.  This difference is an exciting stuff in itself.

Yes, and if we achieve OU we know where the anomalous energy comes from

Quote
**Of course the proton precession energy eventually gets converted to heat through spin relaxation.

That is true for pulsed NMR, but note that there are two relaxation times.  The thermal relaxation is much longer than the dephasing relaxation.  I think that CW operation offers the possibility that, after the initial switch-on absorption-energy has got  the precessions cohered, the continued absorption energy rate needed to keep the phasing intact is lower than the radiated power extracted.

Smudge

Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2020, 10:33:36 PM »
More technique and Data acquisition from components .


https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3924.msg83163;topicseen#msg83163
 

Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2020, 12:19:01 PM »
Note to Conrad  ...the file for the printed component you made and sent itsu ?
if still available [[you wrote about moving house

 itsu needs it.. or if anybody else has received the water tube 3D file ?
I will ask for this post to be removed once there is response.
Link to open source NMR project here.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3924.msg83193;topicseen#msg83193

Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2020, 03:21:21 PM »

 

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