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Author Topic: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".  (Read 15528 times)

synchro1

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Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« on: May 15, 2013, 07:00:16 PM »
Youtube:

"TinselKoala . 

"I'm wondering about eddy currents too. I'm going to try to get a homopolar generator segment going on this thing next." Here to help:

 
Tinselkoala is spinning a magnetic rotor with over 6kv of high voltage current:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrl4_wREFJ8

 
The "Mendicino" levitating platform is very well suited for a Faraday generator. The pencil point contact is a natural output electrode. An axial polarized magnet disk attached to a larger diameter copper disk and a copper axel cap sleeve that makes contact with the interior hole of the copper disk. Contact brushes for the outside rim of the larger diameter copper disk, complete the generator.

The  real advantage is, the generator disk magnet can double as a levitator on the contact point end. Anticipate high amperage low voltage "Lenz Free" output. Huge contrast to the very high voltage input. COP should be awesome. The amazing feature of Faraday's generator is that the field remains stationary even though the magnet's spinning!

TK's innovative breakthrough is a major achievement. No one has ever powered a motor with static electricity before. The contrast between power voltage and output amperage couldn't be more extremely stark in this kind of  "TK Faraday Levitating Homopolar Motor Generator" setup! A non magnetic conducting ball bearing collar around the outside of the copper disk may reduce brush fricion on the disk edge if substituted for contact. Positioning a tiny nonmagnetic conducting precision bearing at the axel contact point would increase the electrode surface area and improve the connection. This tiny bearing can attach to the axel end, with an electrode wire extending, and the bearing can self adjust along with the axel as the pencil point does.
 

 

TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 08:20:13 PM »
Now, now... don't go getting all excited. Yet.

First, electrostatically powered motors are nothing new. I've shown both a corona/charge motor similar to this one but using an actual bearing and a horizontal rotor, and a classic Franklin-style motor with an enhancement of my own, both running on the output of the Moore's Dirod electrostatic generator, some years ago.  And for a real blast, I designed and built and demonstrated an electrostatically-powered Tesla Turbine/motor, which needs a bit more power to spin, so I run it from the output of one of my Bonetti machines.

Second, I stuck a big fender washer to the ring magnet on the eraser end of the motor in the video above. Now that there is a conductor "cutting" magnetic field lines, there is eddy current generation in the big washer and so this puts a drag on the system and the maximum RPM goes down, to about 2400 RPM. I can get a detectable homopolar voltage by contacting the washer in the right place, but since the radius of the washer is small and the ring magnets only weak ceramic ones, the voltage is tiny, on the order of tens of milliVolts, and of course this is into a very high impedance load as well. I very much like the idea of using the axle point as the central contact for a Faraday dynamo, but when I put the large washer on the pointed end of the motor the eddy and mechanical drag was so great that I could only get a few hundred RPM out of it. This washer is magnetic though. If I can find a copper washer or make a copper plate that will probably work a lot better.

Third... the current at 6.4 kV to power this motor is very small, the power supply is essentially seeing an open circuit at the load. I'm putting about 5 watts DC input to the HVPS but this translates to much less at the rotor because of the low corona current (high impedance output load.) 5 Watts is basically the quiescent draw of that power supply, no load on its output. You could say that this motor "runs on voltage" because it is the electric field of the charges that pulls the rotor around, not an electromagnetic interaction (caused by current) like normal motors. There is of course some current flowing in this motor but it's small.

Finally...for now... thanks for posting a link to my video! Enjoy, contemplate, discuss.

TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 10:36:42 PM »
FWIW, here are a couple of shots.

First there is a 30 second time exposure at ISO1600, showing the small amount of corona from the electrodes and a patch on the disk edge itself. This is at around 4500RPM.

Next, a current determination using the moving-coil Hickok meter. I read this at about 35 microamps or so. This is at about 1200 RPM, and the current was about 10 uA with the stopped rotor and gradually increases with RPM.

The max output of the supply is 1200 uA; this is the same supply that I used for the TEA uv laser, where it's putting out its full rated current. Here we are seeing just a few tens of microamps.
So that means the power input to the rotor is probably between 150 and 250 milliWatts; a lot of that must be wasted somehow because I know that rotor isn't really dissipating that much.

ETA: I just determined that much of the loss is in the meter and the connecting cliplead. If I lose the meter and use the direct hookup the motor runs much faster. So at best we have an upper limit in the 250 mW figure. I don't know if I can get any more accurate current measurement... no way am I hooking this thing to an oscilloscope.

Pirate88179

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 05:13:56 AM »
TK:

That corona photo is very cool.  I am enjoying this line of experimentation that you are doing here.  I have nothing to add but now that I have posted, I can follow this work.

Keep it up.

Bill

conradelektro

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 02:16:55 PM »
More than 10 years ago I experimented with electrostatic motors.

My best result was a plastic disk (two CD-ROMs glued together with their conducting side, so that only the pure plastic sides where on the outside) with two blade-shaped electrodes on each side. One blade positive and one blade negative.

I tried many blade configuration, the one shown on the photos was the best. The copper blades are not touching the disk, they are about 2 mm above the disk.

This electrostatic motor reached 2800 rpm (bad bearings) with the HV from a colour monitor, about 36 KV pulsing DC. Do not do this, it is very dangerous.

See the attached photos.

I always wanted to do this with magnet bearings, but I never found the time and the will to really go about it. I also was afraid that one day I will be bitten by the 36 KV from the colour monitor.

Here a video (not from me) which explains this Poggendorf electrostatic motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raqL-txPYFE . Usually one uses a row of fine needles, but I was a fan of the "blades", because blades were much simpler to build than a row of needles.

Here an other video (also not from me) showing a similar motor, also with blades: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zKrphJmHnQ

Greetings, Conrad

TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 04:53:06 PM »
The shimstock or copper strips used as "blades" can be vastly improved in performance by serrating the edges with a couple of passes of pinking shears, making a series of little points along with the sharp cut edges. You can't do this with razor blades! But you can take, for example, the braided shield from a bit of coax, fray it out to make a fan of individual strands, and this will work very well too.

This also works with the electrostatic "lifters". If you serrate the lower edge of the bottom skirt they will lift much better (and also use more current from the source). I've pointed this out many times in various "lifter" threads but nobody seems to want to do it... probably because it reinforces the "ion wind" explanation of the operation of lifters and is contrary to the TTBrown capacitive thrust hypothesis.

Also, simple pivot bearings made from tiny test tubes or hardened setscrews are excellent bearings for these kinds of motors.

The Poggendorf style motor works by slightly different principle than the edge-blown motors like my MagLev, or the Tesla Turbine in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9RIsXzmzY

synchro1

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TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2013, 07:44:02 PM »
Heh. Beware the flicker!

Unfortunately, at 15 kV, even 10 microamps still represents a lot of power, much more than the rotor itself is dissipating, probably. I think I am getting substantial eddy current braking in the brass discs even at the spacing shown in the above video.

synchro1

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 08:23:38 PM »
@Tinselkoala,

                     You might consider sandwiching the center rotor with two neo disk magnets and conductor plates, one on each side, for balance, and elongating the axel enough to eliminate eddy drag from the levitator magnets. Don't forget to run an interior conductor sleeve between the holes of the conductor disks. This conductor axel sleeve can taper to a point for the negative contact. Connecting the outside perimiters of the two adjacent conductor disks would only take one brush over one rim. These connections can be made by routed wires.
 

TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2013, 02:28:26 PM »
I've started to make some refinements to the construction. I've replaced the pencil with a phenolic tube, with an aluminum point insert that I made with a drill and a file. This took care of a lot of the radial out-of-balance and makes a more stable axle for mounting the ring magnets and rotor disk and any homopolar components I might decide to test. A brass bushing replaces the improvised solder weights for longitudinal balancing.  I also made a better adjustable mount for the electrodes. Next will come a proper base for the suspension system magnets and mirror.

I've already broken the old speed record, having gotten up to 5870 RPM with the new axle and the 15 kV supply.

Does this count as a pulse motor? I'm giving it one Longggggggggggg pulse of DC.........

broli

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2013, 06:31:36 PM »
The title of this thread is a bit misleading, this seems to be an electrostatic motor. Another property of a homopolar motor is that rotation direction depends on current direction, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the direction of rotation changes when current is reversed?

synchro1

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2013, 06:58:58 PM »
I wonder if a conductor disk placed close to the rotor might collect spill off power from the corona?

synchro1

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2013, 07:02:04 PM »
The title of this thread is a bit misleading, this seems to be an electrostatic motor. Another property of a homopolar motor is that rotation direction depends on current direction, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the direction of rotation changes when current is reversed?

I chose that wording to imply:

                                    "High voltage electrostatic levitating motor and homopolar generator".

TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2013, 12:13:19 AM »
The title of this thread is a bit misleading, this seems to be an electrostatic motor. Another property of a homopolar motor is that rotation direction depends on current direction, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the direction of rotation changes when current is reversed?
Broli, the videos don't show any testing of the homopolar components yet, and they aren't even installed on that last photo. But I have tested a couple of configurations and have gotten a few mV of homopolar output into a high-impedance voltmeter.

I cut out a disc from brass shimstock and mounted it right up against the rear ring magnet. I made a couple of small carbon-fiber brushes that have high conductivity and a very gentle touch, and using these as probes against the brass disc surface at the periphery and close to the center, I could detect the voltage, very small, but with the correct sign for the magnet and probe polarities and direction of motor rotation.

Unfortunately I also noted a couple of other things. First, the homopolar voltage is very small. The conductor path length is short and the magnetic field of those ceramic ring magnets is really weak. Second, the strong suspension magnets (these are epoxy-coated, very thin, N52 or even stronger, special purpose NdBFe magnets) create fairly strong eddy current braking on the brass disc when it is so close to the suspension.

I tried another larger brass disc glued to a plastic disk for rigidity and spaced further away from the suspension, but I couldn't test it for homopolar activity because I don't have another suitable magnet for it. Still, it produced enough aerodynamic braking and possibly also still some eddy braking that it slowed the top speed of the motor by half, down to a bit over 2700 RPM. I have some stronger ring magnets coming soon, I hope, so I'll be setting up for more homopolar trials when they arrive.

TinselKoala

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Re: Tinselkoala's high voltage "Mendicno Homopolar".
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2013, 12:17:42 AM »
The title of this thread is a bit misleading, this seems to be an electrostatic motor. Another property of a homopolar motor is that rotation direction depends on current direction, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the direction of rotation changes when current is reversed?

Current reversal.... well, most electrostatic motors, including this one, cam be biased in one direction or the other by the geometry of construction. If I adjust the electrodes so that they are exactly on the disk diameter, then this motor will spin equally well in either direction but needs a little push to start. If I move the negative brush to where it is about 1/3 the circumference away from the ball, then the motor will usually self-start, turning from brush to ball in the shortest direction, and it prefers to spin that way. If I reverse the polarity of the electrodes, putting the cathode to the ball and anode to the brush, then the motor will still spin but not nearly as well. Directionality response same as above.