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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2364488 times)

RandyFL

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I'm not able to understand how my learned friends here can say that they would small cores and would give pulsed DC current to it in 9 amps or 10 amps..What is the voltage you are going to use? What is the number of turns? What is the magnetic field strength you are going to create to make an impact on the central secondary?

It is not clear to me how my learned friends are going to defy this nature of electricity and come up with a small device that will replicate the performance of Figuera..I'm really not able to figure it out..Of course my knowledge on electronics is zero. My mentor Patrick Kelly literally tried to hit electronics in to my head with a Hammer and Nail but it would not go in and gave up..But I do not understand what Electronics has to do with generation of Electricity..Really confused here..Please guide..

Hello All,

Ramaswami,
the only analogy that I can give you is... A. stream in the woods... B. And a concrete dam..............................in the case of the stream high up in the mts. ice is melting one drip at a time... it collects and gravity is slowly pulling it down stream pass the woods past the country side to where it rages as mighty river... on the other hand is the big and mighty damn dam... over time it develops a crack and single drip.....the drip becomes two drips...three drips....4 drips.....etc...... until one day the damn dripping causes the damn dam to give way............................the mighty water causes everything to be washed away........................if you go back high into the mts. you can still see it dripping..............................in the case of the damn dam..............you go past the broken dam way high up to the source of water and you will see it drip drip dripping.........................................................................................

I for one am looking for the damn drip..........

All the best...
 :D

Randy

NRamaswami

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Oh Randy..

That drip sits right before your nose in the form of Air..Lot of electricity is present in air..If it were not for the air that you are able to inhale and the electricity that goes in the form of negative charges in the air to our lungs, none of us can remainn alive.

Since I started from zero I learnt what are the methods of Generation of Electricity..

a. Electrostatic Induction machines - Not used
b. Electromagnetic induction machines (used mostly everywhere) (hydro, Thermal and Nuclear - all use only a turbine that rotates to generate electricity and is subject to Lenz Law)
c. Nuclear Battery ( Not even known - used only in Satellites) - Banned under statutes
d. Chemical Batteries (lead-acid and our normal 9 volt batteries Lithium ion batteries used in cell phones etc)
e. Thermoelectricity using thermocouples - Not used due to inefficient production
f. Photovoltics - Solar Cells
g. Electricity from Sparks -- When different metals constitute the spark plug a type of plasma condition is generated and excess ions are released but capturing it is not that easy and it is not taught in text books. This is not well understood yet.
h. Electricity from water - No one talks about this - Not much of knowledge is there about the subject
i- Electricity from Ground - Earth batteries - Forgotten technology.
j. Diesel and Oil based Generators -- You get it every where
k. Transformers - using rotating magnetic fields but the core itself remains stationary and the electricity is generated by flux linking which is again subject to Lenz law. Used every where. Not considered to be a method of Generation but only as method of transmission. More electricity is given to the transformers in the Primary than taken out at the secondary because current is lost by Eddy currents due to heat generated in the core and so current is lost though transformers remain the most efficient electrical machines. Efficiencies of 99.6% are reported and accepted using very expensive materials.
l. Capacitors - Not considered to be capable of generation but only as resistors placed in series for transmission.

Probably there are other methods but the above the methods of Generation of electricity the main forms investigated over the years.

Most of them use the Electromagnetic Induction which is subject to Lenz law by using a rotating magnetic core which is surrounded by coils. While easy to construct this is subject to Lenz law and requires more input than output. When the magnetic core rotates electricity is generated in the coils and this tends to block the rotation of magnet and so more input energy is needed to get lesser output. This is what is taught in textbooks. This is the root cause of the energy crisis..

Figuera method as Hanon pointed out avoids the Lenz law effect by using the method of flux cutting the lines between the opposite poles. 
It provides less input and claims to take out more output. The Patent itself has gone in to archives to be forgotten but has been brought out by Hanon..So is this really possible? Is this true? If so how can it be done?

If you go through the Ramaswami Power Transformer book and the above the drip will be there before you..I hope you can open your eyes and mind and open the windows and let fresh air and light come in and then you can see the drip immediately right before you..I suggest that you follow the nature rather than putting up artificial constraints.. If you watch catch big fish go to Oceans and don't go to a pond and then say I will wait here till the whale or the big shark comes to this pond and keep fishing in the pond..If you want to catch the big fish, you need to go where the big fish is and that is where the drip is present..



 

Fernandez

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You can create a simple motor effect with a magnet, piece of iron and a battery. Take a strong magnet and place the iron on one of the poles. For this you can use a 16 penny nail. Connect the iron(nail) to the (-) side of a AA battery. Take a small wire from the (+) side of the battery and touch the bottom end of the magnet. You will see that the magnet rotates.

In this case two magnetic fields are created in one object. That object is the magnet. The current from the battery slightly distorts the magnetic field from the battery. Prevent the magnet from rotating and quickly introduce and remove the current from the battery the magnetic field distorts and springs back. In this experiment you end up moving a magnetic field with a current.

This effect can be amplified with electromagnets. Build a coil with iron, tire irons work well. Spin a coil on it, start light say 12 vdc. Connect wires to the iron core and pulse the iron core with 12 vdc. Secure the iron core from wanting to rotate, when this is done again you are creating a Locked Rotor effect as seen in a stalled electric motor.

Find a way to get the distorted magnetic field to do work, shouldn't be that hard. Give credit where credit is do.

- Fernandez

hanon

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You can create a simple motor effect with a magnet, piece of iron and a battery. Take a strong magnet and place the iron on one of the poles. For this you can use a 16 penny nail. Connect the iron(nail) to the (-) side of a AA battery. Take a small wire from the (+) side of the battery and touch the bottom end of the magnet. You will see that the magnet rotates.

In this case two magnetic fields are created in one object. That object is the magnet. The current from the battery slightly distorts the magnetic field from the battery. Prevent the magnet from rotating and quickly introduce and remove the current from the battery the magnetic field distorts and springs back. In this experiment you end up moving a magnetic field with a current.

This effect can be amplified with electromagnets. Build a coil with iron, tire irons work well. Spin a coil on it, start light say 12 vdc. Connect wires to the iron core and pulse the iron core with 12 vdc. Secure the iron core from wanting to rotate, when this is done again you are creating a Locked Rotor effect as seen in a stalled electric motor.

Find a way to get the distorted magnetic field to do work, shouldn't be that hard. Give credit where credit is do.

- Fernandez


Fernandez, Sorry but I do not get to understand your post. Are you suggesting to connect the electromagnets core to a battery? What kind of effect are you looking for?


Thanks

hanon

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Nobody has say a a word about my previous post, copied below.


How can you use both poles of each electromagnet if you pile the coil as :N--y--S--y--N--y--S--N--y--S   as the 1914 suggest?


Any other option apart from using straight bars cores in all "N/S" electromagnets and "y" coils?




   (====N====) (===y===) (====S====)

  ^                       ^                   ^                        ^ 
  |                         |                   |                         |
  |                         |                   |                         |
  |                         |                   |                         |

pole                  pole              pole                    pole




I always recall to read the original patent text in detail to look for the right coil placement. It is not fair to read the patent text just partially, or just trying to read what you want to be read.


In the 1914 patent (Patent No. 57955 and filed by Buforn, a partner of Figuera) you can read:


"If you want even greater production you can place the inducers and the induced one
after the other forming a single series in the next way: you place first an electromagnet
N, for example, next another electromagnet S, and between their poles and properly
placed you put the corresponding induced, with this we will have formed a group of
battery as explained before, but now (instead of forming as many identical groups to the
first one as number of induced coils needed) you can place, following the last
electromagnet S, another induced and, after this last induced you can place an inducer
N, following this inducer by another induced, and then by another S, and so on until
having placed all the inducers which form the series of electromagnet N and S.


With this we will have succeeded in using the two poles of all inducers except the first
and the last one of which we will have only used one pole and, therefore we will have as
many inducers as induced minus one, this is, if “m” is for example the number of
inducers, then the number of induced will be “m – 1”, which determine a considerable
increase in the production of the induced current with the same expenditure of force."


--------------------------


Please explain how your proposals may fit (if possible) this coil arrangement.


For me it is clear that all electromagnets are arranged in a linear way (bar core type), as NRamaswani has designed. Therefore you can use with this design both poles of each electromagnets in contrary to the use of just one pole of each electromagnet as in the original 1908 design.


For me it is clear that electromagnets are just solenoids , not any kind of transformer core type. Please open your minds and recall the generator from Hubbard, Hendershot and others where the cores are not forming any king of close transformer.


I attach the partial translation of the 1914 patent (sorry but it is 30 page long and it is too much time for me to translate it completely, more when it is practically a copy of the 1908 design plus some improvements as the ones explained in the translation that I attach)


Regards and good luck to everyone

Fernandez

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Fernandez, Sorry but I do not get to understand your post. Are you suggesting to connect the electromagnets core to a battery? What kind of effect are you looking for?


Thanks

I will have to take a pic or make a video to funny understand.
In essence you are building a motor less all the internal parts. There is only one magnetic part the other magnetic element comes from the current that traverses the iron core.

The effect I described above used a permanent magnet to view the effect. So you only have 1 robust low cost magnetic field. The second magnetic field comes from the current passing through the core material (at 90 degrees) this flash of current distorts the larger magnetic field. When the current is removed the larger field springs back.

If you hold the current steady your magnet or electromagnet will try to rotate. This is because it has been disturbed off its natural position and tries to find equilibrium.

I will post a pic next weekend as I am busy this week.

-Fernndez

RandyFL

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I don't understand...

We went from the " Figuera " being the next best thing since sliced bread back to wrapping a coil around a nail...

btw...Did you know that Patrick Kelly took down most of what was on the " Figuera " in His eBook.

Whats next... the arduino electrifies the coil around nail....  :D

All the Best
PS I am going back to the videos of " woopy " and " Kehyo "

Lastly...Fernandez this isn't a dig or anything derogatory against your work ( please keep working and sharing your results and your thoughts )

hanon

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btw...Did you know that Patrick Kelly took down most of what was on the " Figuera " in His eBook.



Randy,


I will tell the story of Figuera description into Patrick´s ebook: In october 2012 Bajac published his descrption of the Figuera generator (the one in post #1 in this thread). Later this interpretation was copied by Patrick´s into his ebook. Therefore the description included into the ebook is just the description delivered by Bajac


After studying in deep the text of the Figuera´s patent I can not agree with the interpretation of Bajac, based on transformer-type cores and air-gaps, both concept not mentioned in any place of the original Figuera patent text. For me this is a genuine design , but not related to the original Figuera intentions. This is my guess, I am not sure because I don´t have a crystal ball nor I have succeded with my other prototypes. If you have not read the original patent text I will encourage you to do it with open mind and not trying to fit it into the split primary transformer. If this is not the right configuration then it is doing more bad that good because now everyone read it and try to fit into that model (except for NRamaswami that has gone into using straight solenoids, which for myself is more similar to Figuera´s ideas)


In my case I always quote the text from the original patents. I just quote the Figuera/Buforn text and I try to give and interpretation of what I read or what I see that is lacking. It is up to you to read the original patent text or just the interpretation included in the ebook




RandyFL

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Hanon,
This is not something ( that I state ) against you or anybody else that comes into the forum to share ideas, thoughts or to show their work...

I asked Mr. Kelly which apparatus should I build and He stated... The Figuera. I built the apparatus that Mr. Kelly designed and it works ( I have showed that ) I have seen the videos, as you and others have, that Woopy ( Laurent ) and Kehyo have made. I asked Kehyo his perspective on it and you have it here in previous posts...On the 1st video that Woopy made... its self explanatory... His power supply ran the apparatus and His 24 volt battery ran the transformers and in the secondary s produced light on the Led s...

My point is this... I don't think Bajac's interpretation ( or anybody else's interpretation ) is wrong until.... UNTIL its proven wrong. I say we keep working until we find what works... and I would be the first to suggest it be put back until proven other wise...IMHO.  :D

All the Best

tak22

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Nobody has say a a word about my previous post, copied below.


How can you use both poles of each electromagnet if you pile the coil as :N--y--S--y--N--y--S--N--y--S   as the 1914 suggest?


Any other option apart from using straight bars cores in all "N/S" electromagnets and "y" coils?




   (====N====) (===y===) (====S====)

  ^                       ^                   ^                        ^ 
  |                         |                   |                         |
  |                         |                   |                         |
  |                         |                   |                         |

pole                  pole              pole                    pole






hanon,


The patent shows the electromagnets in what is assumed to be plan view as just rectangles, and I've yet to see any explanation or drawing that makes sense to interpret that to mean he used "C" or "I" or bars. Very common back then is the horseshoe shape and it fits with the illustration and description, so the "rectangles" would be the ends. Just an observation ....

forest

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I think we are missing the whole picture. Figuera went from the original idea of modyfying dynamo generator to the final arrangement which is in his latest patent and which is not explained clearly enough apparently.In meantime he patented two other designs using two different principles. In all cases the essence is what he understood with his first rotating machine.
He used both opposite and the same magnetic poles, depending on design, he also used phase change probably to shift opposite poles Bloch wall in one of his patent.If I could have resources I would start from the beginning, trying to find what kind of dynamo he modified in his first patent...

RandyFL

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In all cases the essence is what he understood with his first rotating machine.

That is my point... I think Woopy captured that basically in his first video on the Figuera...Had Woopy used thicker wire or used all of the transformers we would have seen this whole picture clearer...

I think its just a matter of time before Bajac posts His results and adds another piece of the puzzle...

Cheers

PS could I have all the patents location so I can basically read them ( I thought I did awhile back ).

hanon

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PS could I have all the patents location so I can basically read them ( I thought I did awhile back ).

Don't worry, you are not the only one that has been working in this generator without reading the patents. I can see that you dont have even a copy of the pdf files in your computer.

Never is late to look for the original patents instead of others interpretations of the original

Fernandez

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I don't understand...

We went from the " Figuera " being the next best thing since sliced bread back to wrapping a coil around a nail...


Never stated "wrapping a coil around a nail" I understand your frustration because your hard work and ideas have gone nowhere.
I simply disclosed how to move a field with little to no moving parts.

Maybe it helps people here like Hannons translations of the patent. Jerking around with LED's goes nowhere ..... A simple fact.

Figurea studies the interaction of magnetic fields in a dynamo. Why aren't you?

Good luck.

NRamaswami

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Hi Hanon:

I can try to show a Figuera device provided one cheating trick is allowed to me. I donot have sufficient coils as they are in another project.

I will try to show three primary coils and two secondary coils as depicted in a straight pole formation. I will need to use high resistance lamps as resistors to control the input. I cannot guarantee COP>1 output or something like that but I will show how the Figuera coil was built. Let me see if the 12 volts and 16 amps transformer is available. If it is availble then we can certainly show cop>1 performance. I will use AC.

The coil requires a lot of iron The iron and coils that I have is used for another different device under testing which I'm not interested in disclosing as I want to file a patent for it. Unfortunately we have not come out of the economic problems yet and I cannot further invest in this project. We have tried to make small coils and then ended up making the mistake of cutting the coils many times and so we do not have good continuous coils for being used in the secondary.

Unfortunately people do not seem to understand that this is a Generator. It is not a table top device. If I understand correctly Each primary was at least 3 feet length. Each secondary was at least 1 feet in length. If you put 6 such primaries and 5 such secondaries as a single pole it is the most efficient configuration but the length becomes at least 23 feet. If the primaries are 4 feet and the secondaries 1.5 feet then it becomes 32 feet in length. In my Opinion the devices were at least 3 feet in diameter to avoid saturation issues. It is not really appreciated that this is a very expensive device to build. It is very simple to build once you understand it.

Every electromagnetic motionless Generator small one will weight in the 1 to 2 tons category. The prototypes that I have done are about 200 Kgm in weight easily. So far I have purchased 350 kgm of Iron and iron powder for this project and spent a lot of money. It is only when I saw that the flux present in the Primary coils are not being used I also used to wind the secondaries on them to make the output increase in a small device. But we face the problem of Votlages not merging if the phase and frequency between the 5 secondary coils do not merge. Only when they merge without aiding we have a good device. So some tweaking is always needed in the device named after me but in Figuera this problem is absent.

Figuera used Pulsed DC of a different wave form than normally seen and using pulsed DC requires a lot of iron. Approximately 4 times the mass of iron and 4 times the length of coils used while using AC. So please understand how simple but how difficult to implement this project is for common people. It can be used as a community project to generate power but how many individuals can afford it is not clear to me as it is a one time investment but very expensive by our standards.

I will try to show a small video of the device in the next one or two weeks.