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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2364893 times)

RandyFL

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Hi,

I just wanted to do a kind of brainstorming with the Figuera's device.
Bajac.

Hello Bajac,
I assume you are using both the arduino version and the 555 4017 s and 4081 version in your parallel work...whats holding you up... the amperage at the gap ( the BDX53c gives 8 amps - the 2n3055 gives a higher amperage ).......................Is it the iron...? iron with some carbon in it = steel.......steel with some silicon in it = electrical steel.....the iron that showed up at my house was round...and me like a clown had it squared and made 7 tiny transformers out of it....I should have left it round and had the ends squared and made two transformers....sheesh! Whats your views on the difference between a coil and a solenoid...

A solenoid is a type of electromagnet when the purpose is to generate a controlled magnetic field. If the purpose of the solenoid is instead to impede changes in the electric current, a solenoid can be more specifically classified as an inductor rather than an electromagnet.

An electromagnetic coil is an electrical conductor such as a wire in the shape of a coil, spiral or helix. Electromagnetic coils are used in electrical engineering, in applications where electric currents interact with magnetic fields, in devices such as inductors, electromagnets, transformers, and sensor coils.

Lastly are you prepared to do the math...
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/indcur.html
I understand some of the mathematics...as I stated before the mathematics have to be spot on this side of the equation.......After " it's for free " who knows...

All the Best


JohnMiller

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@TinselKoala
Thanks for help! :-)

Arduino UNO R3
Other sketches do well

errors:
sketch_jun24a:17: error: 'prog_uchar' does not name a type
In file included from sketch_jun24a.ino:11:0:
sketch_jun24a.ino: In function 'void __vector_9()':
sketch_jun24a:133: error: 'sine256' was not declared in this scope
sketch_jun24a:134: error: 'sine256' was not declared in this scope
'prog_uchar' does not name a type

Seems to refer to this line:
                   PROGMEM  prog_uchar sine256[]  = {


---------------------------
The output is not expected to produce sine wave directly at Arduino pins. It is designed to act similarly to a SMPS.
The primaries will get a diode in parallel and they will integrate the variable PWM signals to a sine current. And while current is directly proportional to flux we will get a sine shaped flux.
So the question is regarding your setup: Do you see at scope the pulse width changing (OK) or are pulses stable (wrong)?

TinselKoala

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@TinselKoala
Thanks for help! :-)

Arduino UNO R3
Other sketches do well

errors:
sketch_jun24a:17: error: 'prog_uchar' does not name a type
In file included from sketch_jun24a.ino:11:0:
sketch_jun24a.ino: In function 'void __vector_9()':
sketch_jun24a:133: error: 'sine256' was not declared in this scope
sketch_jun24a:134: error: 'sine256' was not declared in this scope
'prog_uchar' does not name a type

Seems to refer to this line:
                   PROGMEM  prog_uchar sine256[]  = {


---------------------------
Ah... perhaps so. The only way I can reproduce the compile error messages you've got is to corrupt that line somehow. Even by commenting out the
#include "avr/pgmspace.h"
line my sketch still compiles without errors.

What version of the Arduino IDE are you using? I'm using version 1.0.2, and an Uno R3.

You could try putting

const prog_uchar sine256[] PROGMEM = {

instead, which seems to be another preferred syntax for the PROGMEM modifier:
http://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/PROGMEM

I don't know what else to suggest at the moment. I don't think the issue is in the following parts of the array declaration; errors there produce a different complaint from the compiler.

Quote
The output is not expected to produce sine wave directly at Arduino pins. It is designed to act similarly to a SMPS.
The primaries will get a diode in parallel and they will integrate the variable PWM signals to a sine current. And while current is directly proportional to flux we will get a sine shaped flux.
So the question is regarding your setup: Do you see at scope the pulse width changing (OK) or are pulses stable (wrong)?
Yes, the pulse width changes smoothly between 0 and 100 percent,  at the frequency that is set by the potentiometer voltage on pin A0, varying from under 1 Hz to over 1 kHz. The phase of the two signals is controlled by the value of the "offset" variable, which in my sketch is also controlled by another potentiometer on pin A1 and an analogRead statement. In the scopeshot above, one channel's PW is increasing and the other is decreasing.

JohnMiller

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Thanks for help. I will try it ASAP. My installation IDE 1.6.5
-------
Your report indicates: the sketch seems to work correctly at your setup. If you drive FETs with those signals and put at each inductance a diode in parallel (kathode to + / anode to FET) - then you have your Figuera drive perfect.

You should know that Figuera mechanic wave form generator did not generate sine but half sines: see my post #2248. It is a true simulation of the original circuit.
But with Arduino we can check all possible wave forms by changing the contents of the array.


bajac

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To those people having problems with arduino, I highly recommend to first, copy the code from this forum and paste it into a Notepad application. Second, visually inspect the code to look for any suspicious character not present in the original program copied from the forum. If found, make the necessary corrections. And third, copy the program from the corrected Notepad version and finally paste it into the arduino environment.

In the past, I have gone mad because of errors showing up in arduino after copying and pasting the program. The problem is that different word processors have characters that are similar but they have different ASCII code. For example, I recall an issue with double quotation marks. After three weeks of craziness, I discovered that the symbols were slightly different. The one being copied had a small sloped profile, which has different ASCII code than the one used in the arduino environment.

The Notepad is a simpler application that does not have all the processing and special characters as other applications such as MS Word. Any strange character will show up in Notepad.
I hope the above can help you.

@Randy,

I am only using arduino. The transistors driving the coils are IGBTs rated 600V@20A.

My latest thoughts of the Figuera's apparatus tell me that my set up does not really follow the teachings of the patents. as I indicated before, the shape of my coil cores does not seem to be a match with the cores shown in the patent.

See attached document. When I first posted the paper, I visualized the cores as shown on page 3. This was my impression from the plan view shown on page 1. On page 4 I am showing the cores used in the device that I built. I used these cores because they were already available from an old transformer. HUGE MISTAKE!

I will redo the cores to look more like the ones shown on page 3 of the attached document. I am planning on using cores with a length of approximately 12 inches long with a cross-sectional area of about 2" x 2".

Bajac.

JohnMiller

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@bajac:
Well, this line in sketch works well for compling:

const byte sine256[] PROGMEM = {

Is there any issue to apply it?

.....................
Core shape:
- Wondering on why you have no primary coils at outer limbs of your core!

- As core permeability is 1000fold compared to the air gaps (like 1kOhm to 1 Ohm) the influence of core might be minute.
The flux from primaries operates the center limb asymmetrically while Lenz backlash hits primaries symmetrically both outer limbs. But one primary is just increasing in flux and the other one is just decreasing in flux.That  might be the clue we search for. (Just an idea I want to look at if I have my setup running.)

-I will compose it of cut transformer segments like posted recently.
A three phase transformer needs to be cut 4 times only (left/right + top / bottom around the center limb.

- What Figuera does not mention: if he used bi(multi)filar windigns at primaries. Did anybody try this? Hints from Ramaswami indicate to look at this detail.

hanon

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I always recall to read the original patent text in detail to look for the right coil placement. It is not fair to read the patent text just partially, or just trying to read what you want to be read.


In the 1914 patent (Patent No. 57955 and filed by Buforn, a partner of Figuera) you can read:


"If you want even greater production you can place the inducers and the induced one
after the other forming a single series in the next way: you place first an electromagnet
N, for example, next another electromagnet S, and between their poles and properly
placed you put the corresponding induced, with this we will have formed a group of
battery as explained before, but now (instead of forming as many identical groups to the
first one as number of induced coils needed) you can place, following the last
electromagnet S, another induced and, after this last induced you can place an inducer
N, following this inducer by another induced, and then by another S, and so on until
having placed all the inducers which form the series of electromagnet N and S.


With this we will have succeeded in using the two poles of all inducers except the first
and the last one of which we will have only used one pole and, therefore we will have as
many inducers as induced minus one, this is, if “m” is for example the number of
inducers, then the number of induced will be “m – 1”, which determine a considerable
increase in the production of the induced current with the same expenditure of force."


--------------------------


Please explain how your proposals may fit (if possible) this coil arrangement.


For me it is clear that all electromagnets are arranged in a linear way (bar core type), as NRamaswani has designed. Therefore you can use with this design both poles of each electromagnets in contrary to the use of just one pole of each electromagnet as in the original 1908 design.


For me it is clear that electromagnets are just solenoids , not any kind of transformer core type. Please open your minds and recall the generator from Hubbard, Hendershot and others where the cores are not forming any king of close transformer.


I attach the partial translation of the 1914 patent (sorry but it is 30 page long and it is too much time for me to translate it completely, more when it is practically a copy of the 1908 design plus some improvements as the ones explained in the translation that I attach)


Regards and good luck to everyone


TinselKoala

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@bajac:
Well, this line in sketch works well for compling:

const byte sine256[] PROGMEM = {

Is there any issue to apply it?

(snip)

That change works for me, without errors. The program appears to function correctly,  just as before.


NOTE: The problem seems to be that the data type "prog_uchar" has been deprecated in the later versions of the IDE, it is no longer included in the AVR library.

Google "arduino prog_uchar" and you will find lots of links from people encountering similar problems, with explanations.


ETA: Here's a scopeshot showing the sinusoidal variation in pulse width, of the Pin 11 output. I've got the thing set to the maximum frequency here, which is about 1020 Hz.

JohnMiller

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TinselKoala
Thanks! You are right. My nano runs fine along IDE 1.0.6. I refused to update the IDE at this PC
Would you please post your extended program?

TinselKoala

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TinselKoala
Thanks! You are right. My nano runs fine along IDE 1.0.6. I refused to update the IDE at this PC
Would you please post your extended program?

To give Phase control: Add another potentiometer, connect wiper to Pin A1. Both Phase and Frequency potentiometer values can be 100K or other.

In the sketch, in loop() add the line
offset=(map(analogRead(A1), 0,1023,0,127));

You may need to experiment with the values in the map statement. There may be better ways to do this, I'm still experimenting.

kEhYo77

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Quote
I re watched the video that you made showing your version on the Figuera...I am sure you have watched " Woopy's version " using the arduino... " He stated that the ghost trace was for free "... A. would you agree with that statement. B. Did you get the same results...or did you get different results. The video that you made was two years ago... C. Have you made any more experiments on your apparatus... Its been stated here, in the forum, that by using the arduino you can get a stronger current... D. Do you agree with that statement... E. have you used a stronger current F. Do you plan to use a stronger current... Lastly what do you consider wrong with the figuera on the Kelly website... 1. Is it missing some secret " ingredient " that He wasn't divulging or died too soon to reveal...and where did you get that ball cap...............  I thank you for your answers in advance....and get back to work on the Figuera!]


Hi RandyFL and All.
The "ghost trace" from Woopy's video is the BEMF of the output coil finding an alternate flux path to close the magnetic loop, and it is not through the EMF core side but the other one that is inactive hence the ghost.
My progress is slow with experiments as the parts, cores etc are quite expensive and I cannot afford frying mosfets. Plus, I am running several projects in parallel. Some times I get distracted for months with something completely diffrent and thera times where I'm just lazy. :)
My little lab space NOW has enough components, modules and universal building blocks to do various stuff and I want to make things right.
I am more active 'this stuff' during the cold part of the year. Summertime is here in Poland and I live on the Baltic coast so I get sidetracked.
I plan to investigate Figuera more, All I can say is that it looks promising to me.

Thanks TK for helping with troubleshooting the soft and stuff.

NRamaswami

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I have seen the comments of Hanon..The last Patent of BuForn as we found was the most efficient or best mode of operation of the device.

I'm fairly ignorant and so If I make mistakes it may please be ignored. I'm really not able to understand much of the discussion here.

As I understand electricity is induced when a conductor is subjected to a time varying magnetic field. The time varying magnetic field can be a rotating magnetic field without the core moving as in transformers or by rotating the magnet as in Dynamos and alternators and turbines. Figuera device used a Motionless rotating magnetic field.

As I see it Figuera device used a pulsed DC current input. The positive was split in two halves.. One was made to enter the N magnets from the left hand side as I type it and move towards the right hand side. The other positive was made to enter the S magnets to enter on the right hand side as I type this and to move towards the left hand side.

Our understanding is one was wound CW and other was wound CCW but current was given in one to move from inner to outer and in the other to move from outer to inner. We further understand that the strength of the magnets from N1 to N7 were decreasing while the strength of the magnets from S1 to S7 were increasing. Simply if N1 is the strongest amont N magnets S1 was the weakest among S magnets and so due to this kind of increasing and decreasing magnetic field flux was produced in the center which is between opposite poles and so is immune from Lenz law and the combination of the voltages resulted in the large output reported while the usage of the multifilar coils reduce the current flow to minimum but increased the magnetic field.

I'm not able to understand how my learned friends here can say that they would small cores and would give pulsed DC current to it in 9 amps or 10 amps..What is the voltage you are going to use? What is the number of turns? What is the magnetic field strength you are going to create to make an impact on the central secondary?

Please see here to calculate the Magnetic field strength of a solenoid..

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/solenoid.html

As we have seen using pulsed DC requires 4 times the wire needed for the same amount of AC wattage. Similarly if you are using Pulsed DC iron gets saturated almost immediately and makes a roaring noise and that can be avoided only by increasing the core size.

I'm not even sure if the learned friends here have used Pulsed DC to create electromagnets..I started without knowing what is Voltage and what is amperage and then I learnt that the weakness is not knowing how to make magnets and so I have learnt to make permanent magnets and electromagnets and I have used DC. Pulsed DC and AC all..Pulsed DC is a beast..It requires massive amount of iron to avoid saturating the core and I do not know if the learned friends who tell me that I do not understand that things can be miniaturized have created electromagnets using pulsed DC..

My understanding is that Figuera has used about 100 watts input and generated about 20000 watts output. My further understanding is that he used pulsed DC whether it is half wave, full wave, interrupted DC..Whatever be the wave form, pulsed DC would require 4 times the same amount of iron and coils that AC requires to avoid saturation.

If iron gets saturated it gets very hot and the system cannot continue. You need to stop. To avoid that if pulsed DC is used large quantity of iron is needed. I could not afford the iron and coils and so elected to use AC and used a large single coil..

I had been criticized for using a large single coil but the advantage in AC is current goes like this ----> 50 times a second and then at the same time it goes like this  <----  50 times every second. So in my coils P1 and P2 alternate in strength every second and the variation in magnetic flux takes place.

If we are to use Pulsed DC P1 will remain stronger always and you need to use multiple large iron cores and the purpose of spliting the positive was to make alternating stronger and weaker iron cores. The patent is very clear. The experience teaches me that without massive quanity of iron and coils that I cannot afford pulsed DC cannot be used.

It is not clear to me how my learned friends are going to defy this nature of electricity and come up with a small device that will replicate the performance of Figuera..I'm really not able to figure it out..Of course my knowledge on electronics is zero. My mentor Patrick Kelly literally tried to hit electronics in to my head with a Hammer and Nail but it would not go in and gave up..But I do not understand what Electronics has to do with generation of Electricity..Really confused here..Please guide..

hanon

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Quoting another paragraph from the 1914 patent:


" Another advantage is that around the core of the induced electromagnets we can put
another small size induced electromagnet with equal or greater core length than the
large induced one
. In these second group of induced an electric current will be
produced, as in the first group of induced, and this produced current will be sufficient
for the consumption in the continuous excitation of the machine, being completely free
all the other current produced by the first induced electromagnets in order to use it in all
purposes you want. "


--------------


Why is required that the induced coil for the self-sustaining to be of equal or greater length than the coil for electrical output ?


I have a theory for this: Maybe the patent require this configuration because both induced coils are having induction done by the flux cutting the wires (as in generators), not by flux linking (as in transformers). If induction is done by flux cutting (as consequence of the moving magnetic fields from one side to the other) then, the coil for the internal consumption of the machine is better to have a longer length to assure a continuous production of electricity, avoiding any instant without wires being cut by the lines of force, as may happen with a shorter coil while the magnetic fields are moving. All this is just my guess. In other case I can not explain why this configuration is required.


Any other ideas?


RandyFL

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Hi RandyFL and All.
The "ghost trace" from Woopy's video is the BEMF of the output coil finding an alternate flux path to close the magnetic loop, and it is not through the EMF core side but the other one that is inactive hence the ghost.
My progress is slow with experiments as the parts, cores etc are quite expensive and I cannot afford frying mosfets. Plus, I am running several projects in parallel. Some times I get distracted for months with something completely diffrent and thera times where I'm just lazy. :)


Hello All,

kEhYo77,
So basically what you're stating is... All the energy that has been used and produced is accounted for...the secondary s are receiving the Bemf. That if the primaries are/were wound with 16 awg magnet wire and the secondary s were wound with 14awg magnet wire there wouldn't be large copious amounts of free energy.

Cheers


NRamaswami

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" Another advantage is that around the core of the induced electromagnets we can put
another small size induced electromagnet with equal or greater core length than the
large induced one.

--------------------------

So, Hanon the induced Y coil is not a small coil but a large coil with reels and reels of coils as originally disclosed in the 1908 patent. I agree with you that it is placed between the opposite poles to receive the magnetic waves. That essentially means that the N and S magnets are much larger and Y core also should avoid saturation..

While agreeing with your views I believe that the electromagnets N and S were quite large ones.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 12:07:37 PM by NRamaswami »