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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: christo4_99 on July 03, 2011, 10:02:41 AM
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If someone comes here looking for "free energy" what do they get? I can go down the street and get a Fresnel lens from and old t.v. my neighbor threw out but been there done that. i could build a Joe Cell and pretend that it will help my gas mileage among other things here and there to supplement and exploit existing energy technologies to at most become a thrifty energy miser. So a working Bessler wheel or the like far exceeds anything posted in this forum and/or others because that promise is the fuel-less shaft that turns and not just some kind of add on to something else.How can anyone pretend that something so significant should be treated with the same respect as this whole ball of wax? There is a good nature here...I am not saying that the heart is not in the right place.I am just saying that there is no comparison on Earth to Bessler's alleged (however well documented and proven to me me anyway) Perpetual Mobile.I am his biggest fan and perhaps the person on this Earth that if he were alive i could ask him a few questions that he would be thrilled to answer.For those who don't believe that P.M. is even possible let me now give you some information that doesn't quite prove the possibility but may point you in the right direction. Man creates .Human achievement has only been limited by belief and time itself.What is impossible one day is possible the next.It doesn't matter how many laws scientists come up with to make a name for themselves...there is no law in the universe...it is not even guaranteed to exist,much less abide by laws.All the made up scientific words are just that.The information,just like the money and gold is coveted by the rich.Enter Johann Earnst Elias Bessler , a man who discovered a jewel which he thought and most of us agree was more sought after than gold and he tried to sell it as such.But the world mocked him and laughed at his accomplishment and thought him a fraud among other things.There are lots of lessons to learn from Bessler's story and his life.His machine remains to this day a subject of controversy.One point of Bessler's is that evil and greed have kept his machine unknown.I have taken it upon myself to give a message to the world in this case.Bessler was and honest Christian man meaning that he marveled at the world and all it's wonder's and beauty and he had something/someone to thank for it,namely God.All things under the Sun,to him,were created by God.And so he attributed his achievement to God.I am not trying to convert anyone or anything like that as I myself am on the fence at times about such things.What i am trying to do is to explain that it doesn't hurt a thing to believe this man or his claims or even to take the same to be your own.I did it and now I believe that because i did I may be the closest person to finding out how the machine actually operated.As it stands now,if my views are correct,it had nothing to do with thermodynamics in that Bessler simply built a machine based on known mechanical principles that maintained an imbalance in motion.I have a very clear idea of how that can be achieved. But that's not important and that's not the point either. It has broken my heart to be received in a way much like Bessler himself was in life,on these boards.We are looking for answers.But if there are no answers then why do we look? Bessler was a man,unlike some think,that did not let his creation die with him. I may be on the very brink of it myself or it may be one of you...but I know that someone will discover it again.The question remains then if Bessler was correct in saying that his invention has been,like all truth possibly,raged against and hated by "some" from the very beginning.If i had a running wheel and attributed it to Bessler and God would any of you have second thoughts about God?Perhaps now I have touched on what this is really all about to me,and Bessler's true concern also.I am taking things at my own pace and since i am no longer a member at Besslerwheel.com (booted) my nerves have calmed a bit.Please don't take this as self promotion or anything like that.I'm not picking a fight.I'm just relaying my idea of what is required to solve this mystery.Any of you can carry the same torch as I do.There are a lot of things worse than this to be foolish about.There is something very good in this story for anyone who really wants to know about it.
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christo4_99
Remember a claim without proof, is as a boast without a witness. Blind faith has no place in science either. An opinion is just that, and is not a real claim. But when proven. It your opinion becomes a real value.
Remember this from one of the smartest men in physics.
“We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up until now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.â€
Quote By Max Planck father of Quantum physics 1858 - 1947
I hope this helps in your understanding
Alan
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I'd rather remember this:Bessler was the expert.the authority on this subject,he wrote extensively and since nobody can outshine the man I will continue to look to him and his Hebrew God for the answers.This is best.The above post is not directed toward anyone that is already an accomplished expert on the subject.I am simply giving my advice on how the weeds can be separated from the grain and how to give the utmost consideration concerning a subject that one man,without pretense,claims to have achieved.Those who continue to say that Bessler didn't prove anything and refuse to believe,they themselves become,the hard nut,the impenetrable vessel.Have you read his books AB?
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christo4_99
Remember a claim without proof, is as a boast without a witness. Blind faith has no place in science either. An opinion is just that, and is not a real claim. But when proven. It your opinion becomes a real value.
Remember this from one of the smartest men in physics.
I hope this helps in your understanding
Alan
quite right nothing like a video of proof and the exact build details, i believe the bare roller answers the question in regard to the weighted gravity roller for the original question -
Full video available in the roll on the 20th of june thread
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I haven't claimed anything.If you have something valuable to trade however...on second thought never mind.In closing i am done with these boards...all ye experts,pretenders and the like.I no longer care about any of it.I have reached my own conclusions and I have nobody to thank but myself for that.I learned a lot.You will have your free energy.But for now i will be content to restrict things to my own back yard so to speak.You will never see the likes of me on any such message board again.I don't have the same burdens to bare that Bessler did.To me it was a challenge.I tried to speak but my words seemed to fall on deaf ears.So figure it out yourself if you can.I have nothing to prove.I am satisfied totally.But let me say that regardless of what you think,nobody in their right mind is going to come on this board and share a working design that truly constitutes perpetual motion.I personally instead of something so stupid as that would take the basic concept and improve it through the consultation of engineers and the like.But for you guys to think that someone who is capable of realizing such a thing is going to carelessly dump it onto the internet into a shit loop like this,well,you are just dreaming.I hope you hate me.I don't care.I am done trying to imply anything.Getting booted from BW was the best thing that could have happened.If you (admin) would boot me from here it would probably help rather than hurt.I feel sorry for all you people who pretend to be holding aces but it serves you right when someone like me comes along to crash your party.People need a little more than to be fed bullshit all their lives.
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Christo4,
I don't know what got you to this point. I started following your other thread a while back but I have to admit that I have not been keeping up to date with it. At the time, you were building something and I remember a post that said you were 2/3 finished. Did you ever get a chance to finish it and did it work like you were hoping?
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I have had a good conversation with a physicist at Cornell today.he seems to think that the little machine has the power to alter reality and science as we know it.With an understanding of said machine much clearer than he,i can assure everyone that it has no such power.This thing has been trumped up more than anything in history.It has a power alright but it won't alter reality or break any relevant laws.Anyway for those who are interested in what i am willing to say: It is being built.Stay tuned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christo4_99
questions to anyone: what is the foundation of your thoughts on this subject? is it knowing or assuming?
deciding that something is impossible just because someone else did does not make it so.
if you state that it is impossible and then someone proves that it is...does that make you a liar or a fool?
...if someone solves the problem (with a different approach) then is there any less merit to the achievement than there would have been when it was a more respectable pursuit or a fad so to speak?
Physicist:Well, what is the difference between knowing and assuming? No one has access to absolute knowledge, and such may not even exist. Every statement that we make confidently as fact, such as "the sun will rise in the east," is based on accumulated experience, supported by physical laws that make this prediction plausible. I would bet my life on that prediction. If the sun in fact rises in the west tomorrow, it will invalidate all of mankind's science and accepted understanding of reality. If someone told me that he has seen the sun rise in the west, then I would assume that he is joking or confused.
Absolutely true.
Absolutely not. All of our assumptions about reality are actually bets placed on our best knowledge of the day. These are mostly good bets, just as betting on a straight flush is a good bet in a poker game. If the poker player loses the hand to another straight flush with a higher card, that does not make him a fool, let alone a liar.
Solving a problem with a new approach always has merit, and often makes the solver famous. However, you speak of physical laws as if they were legislative acts, such as prohibiting alcohol or setting the value of pi equal to 3. In fact, the laws of mechanics are a network of interlocking principles and relationships that explain hundreds of years of observations to a phenomenal degree of precision. It is not possible to void one of those laws without voiding them all and destroying all of science in the process. Conservation of energy is one of those laws, and a working Bessler wheel would violate conservation of energy. In popular terms, a world with working Bessler wheels is also a world where pigs can fly and the sun rises in the west when it feels like it. That is why all of us with science educations are betting that the Bessler wheel does not exist. I think that this is as good a bet as I am ever going to see. I do not have the intellectual capital to grapple with a new physics without gross conservation of energy, so I am fully prepared to receive my commitment papers when I see convincing proof of its operation. Best wishes to you, and good luck.
me again: okay so if i build a self moving machine like Bessler's then suddenly pigs will fly ! note:this is a scientist talking here ! I doubt if Bessler knew of all the flying pigs in the area when he built his machine. any stories of flying pigs in history fellows ? silly question but answer : no flying pigs. well documented Bessler wheel but no flying pigs. If y'all can find anything other than fiction on flying pigs let me know. roflmao
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maybe this is what he was talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPAYR5NReE8
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I have had a good conversation with a physicist at Cornell today.he seems to think that the little machine has the power to alter reality and science as we know it.With an understanding of said machine much clearer than he,i can assure everyone that it has no such power.This thing has been trumped up more than anything in history.It has a power alright but it won't alter reality or break any relevant laws.Anyway for those who are interested in what i am willing to say: It is being built.Stay tuned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christo4_99
questions to anyone: what is the foundation of your thoughts on this subject? is it knowing or assuming?
deciding that something is impossible just because someone else did does not make it so.
if you state that it is impossible and then someone proves that it is...does that make you a liar or a fool?
...if someone solves the problem (with a different approach) then is there any less merit to the achievement than there would have been when it was a more respectable pursuit or a fad so to speak?
Physicist:Well, what is the difference between knowing and assuming? No one has access to absolute knowledge, and such may not even exist. Every statement that we make confidently as fact, such as "the sun will rise in the east," is based on accumulated experience, supported by physical laws that make this prediction plausible. I would bet my life on that prediction. If the sun in fact rises in the west tomorrow, it will invalidate all of mankind's science and accepted understanding of reality. If someone told me that he has seen the sun rise in the west, then I would assume that he is joking or confused.
Absolutely true.
Absolutely not. All of our assumptions about reality are actually bets placed on our best knowledge of the day. These are mostly good bets, just as betting on a straight flush is a good bet in a poker game. If the poker player loses the hand to another straight flush with a higher card, that does not make him a fool, let alone a liar.
Solving a problem with a new approach always has merit, and often makes the solver famous. However, you speak of physical laws as if they were legislative acts, such as prohibiting alcohol or setting the value of pi equal to 3. In fact, the laws of mechanics are a network of interlocking principles and relationships that explain hundreds of years of observations to a phenomenal degree of precision. It is not possible to void one of those laws without voiding them all and destroying all of science in the process. Conservation of energy is one of those laws, and a working Bessler wheel would violate conservation of energy. In popular terms, a world with working Bessler wheels is also a world where pigs can fly and the sun rises in the west when it feels like it. That is why all of us with science educations are betting that the Bessler wheel does not exist. I think that this is as good a bet as I am ever going to see. I do not have the intellectual capital to grapple with a new physics without gross conservation of energy, so I am fully prepared to receive my commitment papers when I see convincing proof of its operation. Best wishes to you, and good luck.
me again: okay so if i build a self moving machine like Bessler's then suddenly pigs will fly ! note:this is a scientist talking here ! I doubt if Bessler knew of all the flying pigs in the area when he built his machine. any stories of flying pigs in history fellows ? silly question but answer : no flying pigs. well documented Bessler wheel but no flying pigs. If y'all can find anything other than fiction on flying pigs let me know. roflmao
Physicist?
if that's the case then you know less than the physicist and have no working model against peer physicists, so far for the last 200 years nobody has proven them wrong with any working model, hold your tongue there sunshine.
Jerry 8)
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i just thought that pm and flying pigs were not in the same ballpark and funny to boot...as for holding my tongue,that's about as likely as PM isn't...lol
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I am sick and tired of all the doubt and all the pretenders. I really feel sorry for the guys who are now getting older even than I (45ish) who have looked for this thing all their lives. I tried to share what I know with John Collins but he would rather arrogantly and stupidly stick to his own ideas (the assumption that Bessler encoded information about his wheel in writing and/or images) and promote things that lead nowhere. I have been at this for 6 years approximately and have all the answers that anyone is ever gonna get from Bessler...which is more than sufficient to build his wheel. And it's not all talk. When the wheel is built,given,my life will be easier but realize that I already know it will work ! This is not another case of someone's mouth writing a check that their ass can't cash. I am finished reaching out to people i pity. I am finished taking a back seat to anyone including the people who stand on science to say it can't be done. I am also tired of the more elite members of these boards and their attempts to try and tell me to hold my tongue (or the like ) based on the assumption that a physicist would know more about perpetual motion than me. I am the only one who knows anything about it.
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I am sick and tired of all the doubt and all the pretenders. I really feel sorry for the guys who are now getting older even than I (45ish) who have looked for this thing all their lives. I tried to share what I know with John Collins but he would rather arrogantly and stupidly stick to his own ideas (the assumption that Bessler encoded information about his wheel in writing and/or images) and promote things that lead nowhere. I have been at this for 6 years approximately and have all the answers that anyone is ever gonna get from Bessler...which is more than sufficient to build his wheel. And it's not all talk. When the wheel is built,given,my life will be easier but realize that I already know it will work ! This is not another case of someone's mouth writing a check that their ass can't cash. I am finished reaching out to people i pity. I am finished taking a back seat to anyone including the people who stand on science to say it can't be done. I am also tired of the more elite members of these boards and their attempts to try and tell me to hold my tongue (or the like ) based on the assumption that a physicist would know more about perpetual motion than me. I am the only one who knows anything about it.
christo4_99
The arrogant way you have come across is what has got you in trouble. You are not the only one who knows anything about it. With such claims people want proof, and want to know what experience you have in such a venture.
How many wheels have you built?
I myself have built many. Only a builder will truly understand what they will have to overcome.
Many ingenuous ways have been tried and many documented. What made these wheels/devices not work?
This is information you need to know. To even start to understand and you have not shown any. So people doubt you with out some form of proof to show, that you may know what you are talking about.
There is one thing I somewhat agree with you, but in a different way. A lot of builders have a problem with tunnel vision and can not see the left or the right. So they only really know what direction they want to go. But they miss the problems from the left and the right and because of that can not fully understand.
Try not to develop tunnel visioned.
Alan
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Hammer, I could give a shit less about any of these boards and all you wannabes. I hope you realize that whatever you say it concerns me in the least. Jump on someone who doesn't know anything and you may get somewhere. I am not complaining about how i am treated. I am saying you are a pretender... and you will see,so in the mean time let go of your egocentricity and listen for a change. All you have accomplished is to run your mouth on these message boards and like the rest are helping people down a road that leads to nothing. My point being that you are not an accomplished person ,nor an authority ,nor well informed are any of the things that people or yourself think you might be. You don't understand my position because you are not in it. Read what Bessler wrote . You will notice the same bite in the things that he said the reason being that he knew something that nobody else knows . Sooner or later no matter who you are you will have to see that. the party is over my friend. This is one man that nobody on this earth will be able to deny . Again here the same mistake is being made: the teacher is being mistaken for a student. If i have the correct principle and you don't that makes me the teacher and you the student. All of you say :proof!...but this is not about proof it's about whatever i want it to be about because I am the real thing and you all are just pretenders... assuming to be able to correct me or teach me something. There is nothing left to be taught. When you understand that you will understand my position and Bessler's as well and perhaps if you are modest enough ,your own.
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christo4_99
You are greatly mistaken for I have not just one principle but over a dozen that say they will work. I will be showing some soon in builds not just words. Not to mention I have shown many builds.
Now prove you are not just a loud mouth "want to be a teacher" student.
What machines have you built? NONE? for you haven't even shown an older machine to show you have ever built any at all. So no evidence except you saying you know, and without anything to even show you have even tried to build. Shows you have nothing. ::)
Show some of your past work and we will see if you deserve the name of a teacher. If you had done this you most likely would not have been banned from Bessler Wheel.
IMO you are lacking forums skill. But if you don't want to show even your old work. Why am I wasting my time with you? I have my own runners to produce and prove.
Good Bye
Alan
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In the end as you will see none of this will make a difference... ;D... Bessler only needed one principle as do I. I don't claim to be a builder/failure. I claim to know what Bessler did and I too am building the same. You cannot hope to compete with this unless you know the same thing that i do. Some people just learn faster than others . What difference do my forum skills make if i have the very principle which Bessler had ? The popular opinion propagated by certain so called "experts" has only served to inhibit me. Realize that since you are still promoting them and yourself as being superior somehow and to be taken seriously without extending others the same courtesy and leading people to NOTHING... that you have been and remain on the wrong side of things. My efforts are not so empty . How about you PRODUCE something as you have probably had sufficient time. As far as I can tell Perpetual Motion such as that attributed to Bessler has not been seen since. What i am offering is the rebirth of that very thing ! And you expect me to just throw it out there like so much of the bullshit that has been peddled as truth to date ?
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Christo4,
I don't know what got you to this point. I started following your other thread a while back but I have to admit that I have not been keeping up to date with it. At the time, you were building something and I remember a post that said you were 2/3 finished. Did you ever get a chance to finish it and did it work like you were hoping?
Since then i have totally rethought the design and now have what i believe to be "the" solution. There is something major in the wheel that i already built that needs to be corrected.The closer i get to it the more confident i am that finally i will not have to defend myself anymore and the less it matters what anyone has to say about it. to be truthful i have attempted to totally abandon the idea that i now have but it keeps returning as the true answer to the problem. i have talked about it to several friends familiar with mechanical workings and such and it is a very simple design and there are not too many variables that can't be corrected. it seems to be,and i've described it this way, the perfect machine.this one will be a one directional wheel as given the design i have not thought out how to make it bi-directional,although i'm sure it is possible.
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And it's not all talk.
So far, it is. :-\
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BUT, even then some would ask if there were hidden wires, motors, pulleys, ect.. would that really be "proof" to you?
So if you seek proof, then the best way to obtain that is to do it yourself. Then you can sit there and argue with yourself over whether or not to accept what you have just done.
such an awesome statement! could someone direct me to the video in which the device is demonstrated? Scratch that...I saw the videos.valiant effort. ;D
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update: the alteration to the previous design has been completed.now i can proceed to build my interpretation of Bessler's wheel. You are all going to be surprised and hopefully some of you will be happy for me. Bessler's principle of "more than enough weight" will be a reality in just a few more days.I forgot how much i like to sweat and get my hands dirty. Yesterday i was reading DT again and i was reminded how sad it must have been for Bessler to never sell his invention. I guess in the end he took it as God's will...as he took most everything else.
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Christo4_99,
I know exactly how frustrated you must be, listening to all those 'supposed'' experts', I too,
have to listen to them, and rely on them ---------- but then again, my age (allmost 68), and my medical
condition (c.o.p.d. --- two strokes etc...) and, last, but not least, I'M SKINT, doesn't leave a lot of room
for much else, does there?
Some of the 'crap' I have to read, is unbelievable!
I've been working towards P.M. for about 40 years --------- I currently, have a design, on this site,
my 'Overbalancing wheel', I don't know if it will work or not ----- I HOPE so! I have made many different
designs over the years, (thousands!), most, if not ALL of them, won't work --------- perhaps one day I'll
hit the jackpot, and one of them WILL work!
Keep on 'trying' mate, (yes, I'm English). Even if you never write another word on ANY forum ----------
I like what you HAVE said so far.
GOOD LUCK.
SPANG. (BILL.)
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Thank you SPANG. I am getting more and more excited because in just a few days i will know whether this concept is valid. I will now say that i have come to a unique understanding of Bessler's "clues"...what i used to think was vague has now become logical. And the math,yes the math even works out. I know this in spite of my lack of ability in mathematics. So chalk one up for human motivation. I did this for my daughter and i have a lot of time to kill ...these are my advantages. If i am successful i want more than anything for Bessler to be hailed as the inventor and ,as he wished, for the glory to be God's. Bessler's invention and his life is a testament to how the world treats people sometimes unfairly. It never sold or received the serious consideration it deserved because it could not be exploited in the same way that natural resources can. Bessler did everything in his power to promote it though and if i am indeed the one who has the principle and the rights thereof I will do likewise. If it is up to me the world will have it , not because it deserves it or not but because it needs it.
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update: construction continues so within a few days i will know and so will you . forgive me for my laziness (I'm a true slacker through and through) . at this point i would like to say that i have tried to contact certain members of besslerwheel to no avail...Fletcher and John Collins to be exact and it's funny but by being willing to share the moment with these guys I suppose i have set myself up for disappointment . so basically if anyone is reading this I want you to know that you are witness to history being made and i appreciate the audience ! chances are i am just another loser trying to get a hint of glory from gullible people on the internet . but what if i'm not? certain people haven't thought about this possibility it seems . so anyone who believes what i'm saying i appreciate you . I'll not let you down . and for those who don't ... it's for those that i really wish the best because they have spent possibly much more time than i was willing to dedicate to this "mystery" ( most of their lives )! so if i'm guilty of anything it's finding answers where there are none. and if i succeed well, ( and i believe i will shortly ) then i was never a troll to begin with ,was I ? the proof is in the pudding as they say . I am looking forward to that proof .
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Christo4_99,
You may not have recieved a reply, but I bet they'll be looking at your 'post'.
SPANG. (BILL.)
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90 % finished...looks like tomorrow is the day , the moment of truth.
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godspeed
Penno
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You may not have recieved a reply, but I bet they'll be looking at your 'post'.
This thread is being monitored by more people than you give credit to. Be it a BesslerWheel.com forum member or a number of energy related forums.
A true advocate in the pursuit of a gravity machine keeps abreast with all related posts on a number of forums. I/we may not have much input to offer but that does not mean their is not interest.
Ralph Lortie
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there is an aspect to this PM thing that i can feel more so than anything else and that is that the potential to make a lot of people look like fools is definitely there ... that's what Bessler did in his day without even really trying to . lots of people have made claims to perpetual motion so if i fail there is nothing lost but there are so many people that have closed the book on the subject and are just so dead set against it that it is very intriguing to be in the position of advocate , and to feel as i do that after mountains and mountains of procrastination and having pushed myself to put aside my fears and put my money where my mouth is,it actually is beginning to look like the very dream that many of us have and I in particular may just be on the brink of coming true ! thanks ralph for showing up in my thread.
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@ christo4_99:
Hopefully your machine will work, but for most cases, time has not been taken into account when one make a gravity wheel. It is the energy that is imortant to overbalance, not the mass alone.
What overbalances in mass, will be counterbalanced by greater time consumtion on the opposite side. Therefor the very same energy levels on both sides. This boils down to the simple fact that rising a mass a given altitude, applies a given potential energy. No matter how many times you move this mass up and down the same distance, excess energy cannot occour. A gravitywheel are doing exactly that; Moving a given mass up and down within a fixed altitude differential. What happens sideways are not interesting, because sideways motion of a mass in a gravity field, does not require or provide energy anyways.
But, as they say: Never say never ;)
Vidar
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Since then i have totally rethought the design and now have what i believe to be "the" solution. There is something major in the wheel that i already built that needs to be corrected.The closer i get to it the more confident i am that finally i will not have to defend myself anymore and the less it matters what anyone has to say about it. to be truthful i have attempted to totally abandon the idea that i now have but it keeps returning as the true answer to the problem. i have talked about it to several friends familiar with mechanical workings and such and it is a very simple design and there are not too many variables that can't be corrected. it seems to be,and i've described it this way, the perfect machine.this one will be a one directional wheel as given the design i have not thought out how to make it bi-directional,although i'm sure it is possible.
Thanks for the reply and I wish you luck with your wheel. I am sure that there are many people here hoping that you get the results that you were hoping for. Please keep us informed.
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90 % finished...looks like tomorrow is the day , the moment of truth.
Christo, good luck and do not give up. Failure is just another way not to do something. Also, just another problem to solve. I believe it was Edison that had over 1000 trys at a light bulb that finally worked. I am not sure what your design is, so could do some sharing with some pics. I am a visual person. Thanks.
Bill
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The build is done :( . The basic principle seems to work but the devices are not working as planned. I have thought of a way to modify the design without much new material cost. The design seems to require an increase in weight but the devices do not allow for this since they are not functioning properly with the weight that is already being used. Maybe after i think about it a while i will go ahead and let you all in on the basic principle.
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think on this,there are 3 basic types of machines, levers wheels and inclined planes.
all mechanical devices are made of these in various combinations.
gears are wheels and levers, a screw is an inclined plane and a wheel,a hydraulic piston
is just another way to do a lever.
now the kicker, none of these show any sign of being anything other than unity.so how is your
combination going to show OU?changing the weights is not going to help til you can show a gain.
fritznien
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"He can rack his brains and work his fingers to the bones with all sorts of ingenious ideas about adding extra weights here and there. The only result would be that his wheel will get heavier and heavier - it would run longer if it were empty!" - pg 295 ::)
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"He can rack his brains and work his fingers to the bones with all sorts of ingenious ideas about adding extra weights here and there. The only result would be that his wheel will get heavier and heavier - it would run longer if it were empty!" - pg 295 ::)
I am aware of that quote. It seems to imply that what we are looking for is lightness, since there are weights everywhere . My design includes a method of having weights on only one side of the wheel. I built it poorly so it doesn't function like i had planned .Maybe i can correct it . There is another aspect to it that i hadn't thought of until i saw it trying to work . I am going to incorporate the added feature.
Bessler gave us a lot of clues ,some of which I think i may be solely aware of. If worse comes to worse and i don't succeed then maybe I will disclose the idea and see what others think about it.
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Wow, I was really down in the dumps because my build failed and doubting that Bessler really even did what he said he did. I put a little more thought to it today and i came up with something that lifted me out of my doldrums ! Right now I'm excited and there's nobody awake for me to talk to about the idea . I texted that i have thought of something to my best friend but he is sleeping . I guess i can go to sleep also and perhaps sleep well with my new concept . Keep plugging away at it people is all i can say for now .
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Anyone can quote Bessler but the true test is to put your heart and soul into it , to feel the heartbreak that comes from a failed attempt and in spite of it rise to the occasion by sifting through all the adversity that exists , the invalid ideas , not only from outside but inside as well and imagine something however different from what others have thought of , that works.
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Quote from Cristo:
Anyone can quote Bessler but the true test is to put your heart and soul into it , to feel the heartbreak that comes from a failed attempt and in spite of it rise to the occasion by sifting through all the adversity that exists , the invalid ideas , not only from outside but inside as well and imagine something however different from what others have thought of , that works.
So, are you saying you don't know how Bessler did it?
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I have never felt that i knew exactly how Bessler did it but what i do know is that i have found answers where nobody else has ... one very key component to be exact ! It just so happens that in the ashes of this most recent failure, (just a few days ago) after ALL THE (short lived) CRYING AND WINING AND CURSING BESSLER (about a day and 1/2) that comes with this burden i once again decided to put my brain to some use and keep looking . My most recent idea seems promising in that although it could be found in the same neighborhood as my old idea it has finally,at long last, moved a little scientific background and an explanation with it !
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Notice for those of you who are actually studying Bessler per se : Notice that he never says that he discovered the principle during an experiment or something to that affect ( this could be refuted ), but that the secret came to him after a moment of sheer doubt and frustration when he hit bottom. For some of us who suffer from overconfidence it is this moment which is the most telling.
From Bruce Lee :
" Fear comes from uncertainty. When we are absolutely certain, whether of our worth or our worthlessness, we are almost impervious to fear. Thus, a feeling of utter unworthiness can be a source of courage. Everything seems possible when we are absolutely helpless or absolutely powerful -- and both states stimulate our gullibility."
So what we can expect is to make our discoveries at the times when it seems the least likely . Success comes from failure . In this case mechanical aptitude and a powerful imagination are definite perquisites to success but a heart that does not fain in the event of utter failure definitely helps!
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quote from Cristo: I have never felt that i knew exactly how Bessler did it
More quotes from Cristo from Besslerwheel.com:
I have solved the mystery of the Bessler Case...
christo4_99
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: I have solved the mystery of the Bessler Case... Reply with quote Report Post to Admin
I am not kidding.I will not be ignored.I need to talk with John personally because i have one hell of an ending for the movie...and the world.I don't mean the end of the world.lol.Anyway John i PMed you.I am not a crackpot or anything.I am telling you i have solved it...there is no question...so we need to talk about this.
First,I want you all to know that the thing that Bessller did,,,both the things that he did...are beautiful.
Beyond principle,beyond guesswork...there is no doubt in my mind tonight that i have figured it out.I know some of you are sick of my claims but I assure you that if i chose to i could convince even the most skeptical of you that such is the case.I have been on the right track since i made the announcement here and tonight i reached the end of that road...there is nowhere else to go.If i had to explain how i got to this point it has been a combination of luck,artistic ability and perseverance.Anyway,since i now have the correct principle to work with it should only be a matter of time until i can produce a working model.
This is why you were booted of that forum! When are you going to apologize for acting like an idiot?
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I have never claimed to know exactly what Bessler did... i repeat ....but as of the last few days I know quite a bit more about it that you or anyone on that board or anyone except Karl and Bessler . Do you know anything about it? I'd bet that you don't . i bet the only thing you want is to act like anyone can... dig up what you think is dirt and then ask someone to apologize. For what ?
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I am sick and tired of conversing with you superior folk who don't know jack ! Apologize to me is more like it ! Just like Bessler I have real friends in this world and they know what I'm doing . They have faith in me . I am telling you that the mystery has been solved , that Bessler was for real , I know his principle and how his wheel worked . But you won't have that . WHY? You go in any other circle and you are in the wrong camp ! I have seen everyone's ideas of how the thing worked ! What is wrong with you people ? Is anyone else making such claims? It's because they don't know ! I am tired of the strife . Would you like me to give up ? I don't need any money or anything . Everyone could benefit from this so why do you guys keep beating me down ? What are YOU doing to help ? What is in your back yard ? Do you know Bessler's principle ? Are you doing anything ? I doubt it . So stfu and let me tell the people the good news ! I am not the nicest guy in the world . I am easily provoked . The guys at Besslerwheel don't know shit and they think that they are a bunch of genii. You are mere hecklers to me and likewise because of your own choices ! Many think poorly of Bessler . I KNOW WHY ! I understand what happened to the man because the same thing is happening to me . You think he was not provoked ? You think he received much encouragement from his fellow man ? Hell no ! He was alone in his art and he was alone when he died . And people like you who can do nothing yet are content to interfere in other people's business is the reason why !
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I am sick and tired of conversing with you superior folk who don't know jack ! Apologize to me is more like it ! Just like Bessler I have real friends in this world and they know what I'm doing . They have faith in me . I am telling you that the mystery has been solved , that Bessler was for real , I know his principle and how his wheel worked . But you won't have that . WHY? You go in any other circle and you are in the wrong camp ! I have seen everyone's ideas of how the thing worked ! What is wrong with you people ? Is anyone else making such claims? It's because they don't know ! I am tired of the strife . Would you like me to give up ? I don't need any money or anything . Everyone could benefit from this so why do you guys keep beating me down ? What are YOU doing to help ? What is in your back yard ? Do you know Bessler's principle ? Are you doing anything ? I doubt it . So stfu and let me tell the people the good news ! I am not the nicest guy in the world . I am easily provoked . The guys at Besslerwheel don't know shit and they think that they are a bunch of genii. You are mere hecklers to me and likewise because of your own choices ! Many think poorly of Bessler . I KNOW WHY ! I understand what happened to the man because the same thing is happening to me . You think he was not provoked ? You think he received much encouragement from his fellow man ? Hell no ! He was alone in his art and he was alone when he died . And people like you who can do nothing yet are content to interfere in other people's business is the reason why !
how can 'superior' folk not know jack? that's what I wanna know. anyone who's everyone knows jack.
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I hope you all are so proud of yourselves for helping me with this thing .
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I have asked for nothing ... because i am in need of nothing from you but what i do want is for everyone to know that the great mystery has been solved and that all the pretenders will be put to shame . If all goes well at long last the world will have the wheel and it's principle .
It would be nice to have some encouragement and to feel that although i will not just give away the secret that i am not alone in my efforts... and that i can count on some of you to encourage me and defend, perhaps even befriend me to some extent if need be .
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You claim you have asked for nothing, yet you whine for support and claim the answer has been solved. The only one being put to shame is yourself as you have yet to back up your claim.
'IF ALL Goes WEll'; Meaning you have not substantiated anything!
It would be nice to have some encouragement
But you just got through saying you did not need help? Defend and encourage you f0r what? Making false claims perhaps?
Come up with a winning design and you will get all the help, encouragement defense you need. Right now all you are doing is making an ass of yourself and making the forum moderator rich by all the advertisement in and between each post of meaningless claims, asking for help then saying you do not need it.
I will give you encouragement: Quit with your whining meaningless chatter and slander aimed at others, either shit or get off the pot.
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I will give you encouragement: Quit with your whining meaningless chatter and slander aimed at others, either shit or get off the pot.
Why is it whining and meaningless chatter ? Because YOU say it is ? I wish everyone was as firmly planted in their own dung as they pretend to be . I wish that the decisions you make now you will someday have to account for.I don't need anyone to kiss my ass or maybe I would tell someone (other than my friends ) about technical aspects of my ideas . How easily we all sway to the winning side of things based on what we think we know.
plain and simple i'll give you back what you give ralph ... a line of bullshit a million miles long ... ESAD ....obviously I am not talking to nor trying to appeal to any so called experts in the subject ... i am talking to the public . ralph you do not qualify as the public ... you are of the pretenders . does the shoe fit ? Think about it... in all your attempts to solve the problem have you ever claimed to have solved it ? WHY ? To me the answer is simple ...you would rather attack the person who IS making the claims ,who is on the right track , who has the ability and insight , who has received the gift than leave your camp of pretenders and speculators who will go on endlessly no doubt to fail and not produce anything ! When a man stretches out his hand you symbolically spit in it ! Why ? You are already a fool ! You have nothing to lose . lol . And , uh , i don't think that it's YOUR pot that I'm sitting on Ralph . You will all lose this fight . Fair warning . You have a website dedicated to gravity/energy yet the one man on earth who claims to have the answer is no friend to you or anyone in your camp and all because that's the way you want it ! You think anyone who has attacked me is justified ? Because you say so ? If this is the beginning of the gift oh how it has become tainted !
P.S. The question of the winning design .I already have it . Where is all the help , encouragement and defense ? No it will continue to move at the rate and in the way that has already begun ,no need to turn back now . However at any time that someone wishes to come out of their mouth with something good I will listen . I will be a friend in spite of all this bickering . The thing is I already found assistance and an expert in the field , I do not require any technical assistance or an evaluation of my design .The student has become the teacher .
Maybe your worst nightmare but my alluring dream.
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@chistopher
i like how you edited out that closing comment from a few posts back where you said this would be your last post... so predictable... ::)
how about you actually do that... that thing you said you were going to do but then edited out.
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that was a whole other thread . But i will do whatever i choose for as long as i can do it .
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that was a whole other thread . But i will do whatever i choose for as long as i can do it .
let me see if i understand you... you said this was your last post and then started another thread, this one?
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do something besides take up space and air ... ok?
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do something besides take up space and air ... ok?
why are you ignoring my simple question? i'll repeat it.
let me see if i understand you... you said this was your last post and then started another thread, this one?
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I have threatened to leave a board and i have been banned from more than one . I started the other thread after this one and when i got the first heckle I said what i said .
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I have threatened to leave a board and i have been banned from more than one . I started the other thread after this one and when i got the first heckle I said what i said .
finally! a little progress... see that wasn't so hard was it?
now, as you just said, you've been banned from more than one forum and yet here you are now doing the same thing here that got you banned from the other forums? how do you think that's going to work out for you? you don't have to answer, those are rhetorical questions.
do you have anything to show from your previous build that you were sure was the "solution" but ended in failure? evidence would help your position. coming here saying you figured out bessler might get you a couple neophyte/acolytes, but the old-timers and regulars won't be buying it. and rightly so... you're not the first pig to cry 'bessler'!
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wow, you really put me in my place ... let me tuck my tail between my legs and run away ... no , let me beg you all for your infinite bullshit !
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wow, you really put me in my place ... let me tuck my tail between my legs and run away ... no , let me beg you all for your infinite bullshit !
so that's a no then. you have no evidence and nothing to demonstrate, not even your failed design. thank you.
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Christo has nothing, he is just trying to feed the population on the forum with hope and excitement hoping it will cause a discharge in his favor.
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Oh wise one's ...guess all you like . Lie all you can and pretend all you want. It won't change a thing .I am about ready to get booted from this p.o.s. too . This is your little world , you can have it . Admin : please boot me from this forum .
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Oh wise one's ...guess all you like . Lie all you can and pretend all you want. It won't change a thing .I am about ready to get booted from this p.o.s. too . This is your little world , you can have it . Admin : please boot me from this forum .
what EXACTLY have i lied about? and what EXACTLY have i pretended about. please provide quotes or shut your face. thank you. and i wouldn't worry too much about getting booted from here. first you would need to show something of your design, preferably all of it. then, the 'erudite ones' would simulate it and "prove" that it doesn't work. ::) after that if you insist on continuing you might get banned... ;)
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I have asked to be banned . You guys are seriously delusional about the "evaluation/simulation " scenario with a well thought out,innovative,
actual PM design . Every time you assume something about me or what i am trying to do you lie .
P.S. I have turned my email notification off so I may not respond quickly enough to your heckling to suit you . Let me renew the subject of the thread before it gets lost.
If someone comes here looking for "free energy" what do they get? I can go down the street and get a Fresnel lens from and old t.v. my neighbor threw out but been there done that. i could build a Joe Cell and pretend that it will help my gas mileage among other things here and there to supplement and exploit existing energy technologies to at most become a thrifty energy miser. So a working Bessler wheel or the like far exceeds anything posted in this forum and/or others because that promise is the fuel-less shaft that turns and not just some kind of add on to something else.How can anyone pretend that something so significant should be treated with the same respect as this whole ball of wax? There is a good nature here...I am not saying that the heart is not in the right place.I am just saying that there is no comparison on Earth to Bessler's alleged (however well documented and proven to me me anyway) Perpetual Mobile.I am his biggest fan and perhaps the person on this Earth that if he were alive i could ask him a few questions that he would be thrilled to answer.For those who don't believe that P.M. is even possible let me now give you some information that doesn't quite prove the possibility but may point you in the right direction. Man creates .Human achievement has only been limited by belief and time itself.What is impossible one day is possible the next.It doesn't matter how many laws scientists come up with to make a name for themselves...there is no law in the universe...it is not even guaranteed to exist,much less abide by laws.All the made up scientific words are just that.The information,just like the money and gold is coveted by the rich.Enter Johann Earnst Elias Bessler , a man who discovered a jewel which he thought and most of us agree was more sought after than gold and he tried to sell it as such.But the world mocked him and laughed at his accomplishment and thought him a fraud among other things.There are lots of lessons to learn from Bessler's story and his life.His machine remains to this day a subject of controversy.One point of Bessler's is that evil and greed have kept his machine unknown.I have taken it upon myself to give a message to the world in this case.Bessler was and honest Christian man meaning that he marveled at the world and all it's wonder's and beauty and he had something/someone to thank for it,namely God.All things under the Sun,to him,were created by God.And so he attributed his achievement to God.I am not trying to convert anyone or anything like that as I myself am on the fence at times about such things.What i am trying to do is to explain that it doesn't hurt a thing to believe this man or his claims or even to take the same to be your own.I did it and now I believe that because i did I may be the closest person to finding out how the machine actually operated.As it stands now,if my views are correct,it had nothing to do with thermodynamics in that Bessler simply built a machine based on known mechanical principles that maintained an imbalance in motion.I have a very clear idea of how that can be achieved. But that's not important and that's not the point either. It has broken my heart to be received in a way much like Bessler himself was in life,on these boards.We are looking for answers.But if there are no answers then why do we look? Bessler was a man,unlike some think,that did not let his creation die with him. I may be on the very brink of it myself or it may be one of you...but I know that someone will discover it again.The question remains then if Bessler was correct in saying that his invention has been,like all truth possibly,raged against and hated by "some" from the very beginning.If i had a running wheel and attributed it to Bessler and God would any of you have second thoughts about God?Perhaps now I have touched on what this is really all about to me,and Bessler's true concern also.I am taking things at my own pace and since i am no longer a member at Besslerwheel.com (booted) my nerves have calmed a bit.Please don't take this as self promotion or anything like that.I'm not picking a fight.I'm just relaying my idea of what is required to solve this mystery.Any of you can carry the same torch as I do.There are a lot of things worse than this to be foolish about.There is something very good in this story for anyone who really wants to know about it.
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I'll tell you your truth then my truth oh wise one's . Your truth is that you are pinning failure to me because of the odds and chances are you won't have to answer for your error anyway .My truth is that I have already failed twice on the true path . I wouldn't even call my design ingenious , merely inspired. The reason that I am where I am and you are where you are is simple : You haven't a clue how to achieve true PM in the manner that Bessler did ... you simply don't know where to even begin . So shut your mouths before you find your foot in it . Here I will quote the true Genius for your enjoyment:
"Go now! Away to your beds, for wiser people have now awakened. Concern yourselves only with your own affairs, and do not seek to force true craftsmen into the wilderness. Work, sing, pray - but leave judging to the judges."
P.S. Whoever is sending me private messages @ besslerwheel I am banned but my email notification is still active so i have no idea who you are .
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Let me explain how it is supposed to work on these forums. You show everybody a design you have worked on...like this one
http://www.youtube.com/user/11Turion
and then people can give you input about why it will or won't work, so that you can throw it away or improve upon it. Just saying "I've got it!!" isn't going to cut it with anyone here. There are too many people who spend too much time actually building and working on designs. They have little patience for anyone who claims to have something but won't share. If you're not going to share, why come here in the first place?
I made the mistake once of claiming to have a working overunity device, and it quit working and then I felt like a horse's rear end, so I will NEVER make that claim again as long as I live, but I will gladly share what I am working on with anyone.
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If you want to know why I'm here ,instead of taking the no-brainer approach that you've just described why don't you just ask me . I am certainly not after the prize money . I have a design but I don't want/need/think anyone is qualified other than me to evaluate it. In a perfect world you could decide what should and shouldn't be like what I should be doing or not . You are assuming a lot here and we are definitely two different kinds of folk.
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If you are just going to talk and not share your design, why are you here? Just to find people to listen? The purpose of the forums is for us to help each other. I would be more than happy to help in any way that I can, and I am sure others would do the same. And I hope that you would take a serious look at the things I post and do your best to help ME improve upon them. That SHOULD be why we are all here. To help each other. But then the name calling starts and the back and forth begins with NO discussion of any real build, and it is such a waste of time.
It is unfortunate that you believe YOU are the only one qualified to evaluate your designs. Have you built it yet. or is it only in the planning stage? I have dozens of designs in the planning stages. But I rarely share them until I am in the process of building or getting ready to build. Often times this saves me loads of time as people come up with reasonable criticisms of why a specific thing won't work. If you have a working wheel, this is the wrong place for you. If your design hasn't been built yet, then you do not have the answer. No one has a working wheel until they have A WORKING WHEEL.
Several times I have felt like I was close, and I feel that way again, but until the wheel spins I have nothing but a pipe dream, and I am not going to come here and tell people I have the answer. No one should.
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Fitting quote from Bessler :
To these people I have just this to say – I hope you
soon recover your sanity! And I also commend to them
TERENCE’S remark: “Is hie esses, aliter sentriesâ€. (TN: - “If you
were here, you’d feel differentlyâ€). Imagine what it’s like to say
to someone “If you do not reveal to me your secret knowledge, I
will not believe that you possess it, and I shall cause you to be
suspected by the whole world as being an arch-cheat and an
idiot who really understands not the first thing about the subject
he deals inâ€.
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If you want to know why I'm here ,instead of taking the no-brainer approach that you've just described why don't you just ask me .
Can you please tell us why you are here?
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Same as you , I am here for the FREE ENERGY ! :o
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But you SAID you have a working device??? Or is my understanding of that incorrect??