That's what I was pointing out, that companies, engineers, people are not perfect and make mistakes. If a company fails at something in particular then it doesn't make them a liar. Eventually we'll learn the truth.

Although, by no means does that indicate there aren't people or groups interested in misguiding legitimate researchers!  Anyone who's been in this industry for a few years should know better. The same people, at least the same personalities with different user names, post about their smoking gun "free energy" machine, but they refuse to take it to a local University or anyone, they get sensitive when anyone trys to get details from them, they linger the discussion on and on and on while people try their best to guess at the details trying to replicate it. Eventually everyone gets burnt out. When I say "burnt out," I'm not referring to lookie loos! I'm referring to peoeple who actually get off their a** and try to build something. They are good people that get burnt out. They are the people we need in this community. What good is it to have hundreds of lookie loos? Anyhow, a great example was the Whipmag / OC-MPMM motor by alsetalokin. History has shown that these thugs have zero interest in making money. They don't advertise to sell anything. They refuse to prove their "free energy" claim. The end result is always legitimate researchers getting burnt. So if you ask me, my theory about what's happening to this "free energy" community is spot on.

PL

What I think is hilarious is Steorn has settled on the Lawrence Tseung theory of producing free energy devices.  Their current position, if I understand it correctly, is that they are not going to make the technology, they are going to license the technology.  So they are not going to try to market the Orbo, they want to sell their "technology" to someone else and let them make it work.

So they are selling the theory, and letting other people (the 300 engineers?) see if they can make it viable (i.e. "we cannot make the Orbo work, but here, you try").  Um, that's great for them, I guess.  No more pressure to produce a working Orbo.  But this does not exactly inspire confidence in anything they have found, but it is consistent with their idiotic stunts of the past, like the "jury validation" of the Orbo.  Why in the world do you need a jury validation, when the product can speak for itself.  Can you think of a single other company that had a "jury validation" before launching a product?  Just demo the thing, under a load, for a long enough period of time where there could be no internal energy source, and there is your proof, geez.

What's also interesting is that the desire not to produce actual products does not seem to be a complete company policy.  They are promoting their measuring tools, which apparently they are able to manufacture.  I guess the investors are looking for something tangible, so some pressure is on.

utilitarian, I've answered in great detail everything you pointed out. Lets not enter into an endless circular conversation for the sole purpose of having the last word.

PL

I think you are guiltier in this respect than Al is. You have claimed overunity for your devices and encouraged others to build them. How many experimenters have produced usable power from a diode array? You have also done much more than Al to promote your device. So where does that leave you? How many hobbiests have been taken in by your shameless promotion?

Your intent is obvious. I have clearly posted the exact power levels my diode arrays have produced. I have made it very clear the tests are for the purpose of verifying that diodes rectify ambient thermal energy. Nobody has been taken by my claims, and in fact *everyone* that has built the diode array has measured a DC voltage -->

* I measured a DC voltage.
* Tom Schum has recently admitted that his diode measurements showed that his diode array produced a DC voltage.
* Charles M. Brown claimed that in 1993 he sent his THz diode array to a company that measured a DC voltage.
* And an anonomous person on my site claims that he and his co-workers, including a senior EE, have verified my claim.

I have provided *every* detail, including part numbers -->
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0

So it is very clear who you support. It is well known that Al has seriously hurt the "free energy" community. And my claims about diode arrays is very clear. I have opened to allow *anyone* to test my diode arrays. I have challenged the Randi organization. I have provided all of the detailed mathematics based on conventional physics, which is based on quantum physics.


To legitimate people, I think these people are getting disparate because they see they can no longer delay the inevitible, global free energy.

PL

Your intent is obvious.

If it's so obvious, just what is my intent?

Just because one individual doesn't comply with your demands doesn't give you the right to start accusing him of deceit. Hell, he doesn't do what I want him to either, but that's between me and him. I don't go dragging Paul Lowrance and his diode arrays and magnetic viscosity motors into our WhipMag discussions.

As far as I can tell, you were unjustifiably badmouthing another group of researchers, a group that I am closely associated with. In our group, I see none of the deceitful intent you have accused us of. Each of us has fully accepted the risks and financial burdens of our efforts.

I have probably done much more talking about the concept than anyone. Most of what I have done was simply to try and get some feedback on the ideas. I'm mostly looking for reasoned and evidence-based discussion of a concept. There was even a time when you discussed some of this with me.

I thought this thread was about Steorn's Orbo. Why not keep it on topic. If you have good or bad things to say about Steorn, go ahead.

Oc can have the last word,

OK, here's my last word: I have no idea what Al's true intentions are. He seems to keep that pretty much to himself. My intentions are to continue investigating the possibilities of the WhipMag concept.

The Zerof bearings appear to use magnetic materials to levitate / cause a separation to cause no appreciable friction. It is reasonable that such bearings could be sensitive to strong magnetic fields that are in the wrong polarity such as from another PM, which could change the bearings natural magnetic polarization, and thus permanently damage the bearings. I wouldn't be surprised if the Steorn Orbo demonstration used similar types of magnetic lift bearings.

PL

If one of the 300 engineers wanted to make his or her own hall probe (very easy and inexpensive), then perhaps Steorn should allow that.

PL