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Author Topic: Joule Thief  (Read 6346055 times)

Pirate88179

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13620 on: June 03, 2010, 07:01:37 PM »
Why do you need a reed switch?  A 2N3055 works well with the Bedini bifilar coil and you can get 16,000 rpm pretty easy.  Folks using sphere magnets have hit over 300,000 rpm.

I know many folks use reed switches on the Bedini but I have never understood why they use a mechanical device when a transistor will do the job with very low power input.

Bill

crowclaw

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13621 on: June 03, 2010, 07:56:05 PM »
Why do you need a reed switch?  A 2N3055 works well with the Bedini bifilar coil and you can get 16,000 rpm pretty easy.  Folks using sphere magnets have hit over 300,000 rpm.

I know many folks use reed switches on the Bedini but I have never understood why they use a mechanical device when a transistor will do the job with very low power input.

Bill
Hi Bill, It's all about  maximising the base current of the 2n3055 so that you achieve high collector switching currents, a reed switch is the simplest way of achieving a very  high base current for the gain of the transistor. But I agree with your comments... you can of course use other means of driving the base as a reed switch is not the ideal device being mechanical and prone to wear etc.  One of my pulse motor designs  use a slotted opto coupling device which drives a Mosfet gate (BTS117)... very reliable. Kind Regards

dasimpson

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13622 on: June 04, 2010, 01:11:38 AM »
yeah i only just found the reenginered joule thief idea most videos showed the read switch you see
i do like the transister idea better and if i do think of going bedini i will use it

dasimpson

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13623 on: June 04, 2010, 06:26:50 PM »
ok i just read this and worked out that if the winding gor the base of transister ic clock wise it is better to wind the secondory clock wise to get best power draw as the flyback is higher then the forwed pass of voltage would i be correct ?

Quote from: Pardon link=topic=6123.msg166938#msg166938 A=1238477344
I found this so i thought i would post it here. i hope this may help out

THE TRANSFORMER
The secret of this circuit is the transformer.
We normally think of a transformer as a device with an input and output, with the voltage on the input and output being connected by a term called "turns ratio."
If the output has more turns than the input, the output voltage will be higher.  This is called a setup
transformer. If the output has less turns than the input, the output voltage will be lower.
This applies to "normal" transformers where the voltage is rising and falling at a regular rate, commonly called a "sinewave."

But the transformer in this circuit is different.
The voltage applied to it is not rising and falling smoothly, and thus it does not work in normal "transformer mode."
The voltage is being applied and then turned off. When the voltage is applied, the primary winding (the 90 turn winding) produces magnetic flux. When the voltage is turned off, the magnetic flux collapses and produces a VERY HIGH voltage (in the REVERSE DIRECTION), in all the windings.
Our transformer is really a coil in flyback mode with a feedback winding.
The feedback winding delivers a voltage to the transistor to turn it on HARDER. If the winding is connected around the wrong way, the circuit will not work.

The other important factor about the transformer is the core material. There are many different types of
ferrite. Ferrite is a type of iron which is powdered very finely so that the magnetic lines that pass through the particles do not create eddy-currents. These eddy currents absorb the magnetic flux.
The circuit also employs a term called RE-GENERATION. This is the effect where a circuit is turned on slightly by a component (the base resistor in this example) and then the transistor turns itself on more and more until it is fully turned on. The feedback winding is configured so that the voltage it produces (actually the current it produces) is fed into the base to turn the transistor on. Thus the feedback winding is very clever. It produces energy and is delivered in a particular direction - in
other words it can be a positive or negative energy. In this case it produces positive energy, to turn the
transistor on harder.
This is called POSITIVE FEEDBACK as it turns the transistor ON during the active part of the cycle.
Now we come to the MAIN, PRIMARY or FLYBACK winding. This winding produces a high voltage during part of the cycle (the FLYBACK part of the cycle) and this is passed to the LED.
If the LED is removed, the transformer produces a high voltage with a low current, but when the LED is
inserted, an amazing thing happens. The energy from the transformer is converted to a lower voltage with a higher current. What actually happens is the LED absorbs the energy and turns it to light as soon as the voltage rises to 3.6v. We could achieve the same low-voltage, high current requirement, with less turns, but the number of turns has to be determined so the core does not saturate.
The voltage for the LED is produced when the transistor is switched off and the magnetic flux in the ferrite core collapses. The speed of the collapse produces a very high voltage in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION and that's why a positive voltage emerges from the end connected to the LED. These two facts are important to remember. The other important fact is called "transformer action." This is the action of magnetic flux. When a voltage is applied to a winding of a transformer or a coil of wire, a current will flow and this will produce magnetic flux. If another winding is present, the magnetic flux will cut the turns of this extra coil and produce a voltage in it. However, there is a very important point to remember. The magnetic flux can be: EXPANDING, STATIONARY or CONTRACTING.
When the magnetic flux is expanding, a voltage will appear in the second winding mentioned above.
When the magnetic flux is stationary, NO VOLTAGE will appear in the second winding.
When the magnetic flux is contracting a voltage will appear in the second winding with REVERSE
POLARITY. The size (the amplitude or "value") of the reverse voltage will depend on the speed of the collapsing magnetic flux. If the flux collapses quickly, the amplitude will be very high.
That's how the transistor turns itself on and on until it is fully turned on. At this point the current flowing through the circuit is a maximum but the flux is not expanding so the base of the transistor does not see the high "turn-on" energy and thus the transistor suddenly turns off.
The magnetic flux collapses and the transistor sees a reverse voltage on the base to keep it turned off until the flux is fully collapsed. The current through the resistor enters the base to start the cycle again.
From this you will be able to see how the transistor and transformer work.


guruji

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13624 on: June 04, 2010, 10:04:37 PM »
Why use rotors on bedini when it can be done solid with just adding  two resistors to the original circuit and a very high oscillation.

resonanceman

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13625 on: June 04, 2010, 10:40:13 PM »
Why use rotors on bedini when it can be done solid with just adding  two resistors to the original circuit and a very high oscillation.

Gurugi 

One reason  to build a bedini  is  just to build  it ....... a rotor  is more interesting  to look at than  just  a few wires and chips.

I do agree that  most of what  you can do with a bedini you can do better with no rotor.

I am working on a bedini with a few twists.,...... and yes it will have a rotor
I plan on adding more than one coil per rotor.
Once I get  it  going  with a full set of  coils  I will work on  using the  other end of the coils on a second  rotor.
I also  plan on using  a rotor  disk  with alternating N and S poles  as a generator  to keep the speed  in check.

It is my theory that   if rotors  are  lined up accurately  on a keyed shaft , one  trigger  coil should  work for several coils .......each one  same position on separate rotors..  .... if the normal transistor  went to a power  transistor  you could  run dozens  of rotors with one  trigger coil.

gary

jeanna

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13626 on: June 04, 2010, 11:36:48 PM »
Why use rotors on bedini when it can be done solid with just adding  two resistors to the original circuit and a very high oscillation.
You can also use the rotating wheel.
John plays it down on the forums but in his dvd, he clearly states that you get something from the rotor.
He says you can even pump water.
Now, it is slow, but all you need is a holding tank.

I like the idea of a fan.
If you use a 20 inch box fan and tape a charcoal air filter in front of it, you have yourself a sweet (maybe free energy)  air cleaner.

jeanna

dasimpson

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13627 on: June 05, 2010, 12:08:29 AM »
with the bedini you also have a very easy way of charging a battery bank buy adding more pick up coils

my idea was get a joule thief to run off an earth battery to power the bedini motor then use the pick up coils to charg battery banks not ou but pritty damn good i rechion

jeanna

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13628 on: June 05, 2010, 01:42:48 AM »
Mine too.
I just haven't made it spike high enough yet.
I can get 4v spikes with the plant battery.
The other more conventional electrodes in water have all performed LESS well than the plant battery (like 1.74v tops), so I am sure there is a plus going there somehow.
But while I have a joule thief that operates on 0.6mA (wow) it is not able to spike the spikes high enough to recharge another battery.
I guess I haven't tried it yet, but, in the future I will go back to the plant battery that worked best which was number 1 and push it.

My jtc as recharger has been inconclusive.
I can recharge the batteries from the 49v- 74v that come off as spikes, but I do not think that I am getting more out than the drive battery puts in.

so, I completely agree.
The joule thief run from an earth battery to recharge a battery is the way to go.
I want to hear your efforts and results, if you have any.

thank you,

jeanna

dasimpson

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13629 on: June 05, 2010, 01:45:33 AM »
im still sceptical about joule thief battery charging but i was think of running a bedini motor from a joule thied jeanna i would love the scematic for your0.6ma joule this lowest i have mine is 65ma lol

i start a job monday so soon i should have money to play with one thing i need to get is some 2n3904 transisters and maybe a couple of pots and make some sort of rister wheel with them

Pirate88179

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13630 on: June 05, 2010, 01:57:10 AM »
Jeanna:

I think my set-up might be able to charge an AA rechargeable but, I would need to make some kind of voltage regulator to prevent the 2.7 volts of the B-cap from blowing up the 1.2 volt AA.

I don't think I know how to do that.  Actually, I am sure I don't know how to do that.  I could eliminate the B-cap but, usually the output from the EER is usually still too high for a 1.2 volt bat. and, I don't think the AA would respond to the spikes like the B-cap does.

Bill

dasimpson

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13631 on: June 05, 2010, 02:14:29 AM »
cool just found out buy mersuing with my dmm i have 4 45k pots

resonanceman

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13632 on: June 05, 2010, 03:45:41 AM »
Jeanna:

I think my set-up might be able to charge an AA rechargeable but, I would need to make some kind of voltage regulator to prevent the 2.7 volts of the B-cap from blowing up the 1.2 volt AA.

I don't think I know how to do that.  Actually, I am sure I don't know how to do that.  I could eliminate the B-cap but, usually the output from the EER is usually still too high for a 1.2 volt bat. and, I don't think the AA would respond to the spikes like the B-cap does.

Bill

Bill

That is an easy one

Just  charge 2 AAs in series


gary

Pirate88179

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13633 on: June 05, 2010, 03:51:50 AM »
Gary:

Duh!  Now why didn't I think of that? ??? ?  I feel like an idiot. 

Would the 2.7 volts in the B-cap be too much for 2 x 1.2 volts (2.4 volts) in the rechargeables?  If that is OK then this is a brilliant, and simple, solution.

Thank you,

Bill

dasimpson

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #13634 on: June 05, 2010, 03:54:13 AM »
no that would be spot on to charge 2 batteys you need a couple of volr more when charging the question is will the ma of the earth battery be high enogth to trickle charge and pass the leakage rate also dont have cap fully carged when you connect the battery connect the battery to the cap then connect the earth battery terminals should limit damge to the batterys from the fast discharge of the caps