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Author Topic: My first WFC/VIC  (Read 37909 times)

supermuble

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2008, 05:14:53 PM »
I had the idea of using a 20-35kv car coil for the step up transformer. On a car ignition the spark is created via back EMF. The spark its self is actually only back EMF. If you put AC voltage or DC voltage into the coil, the back EMF spike is not created in the secondary coil and you don't get anything close to 20,000 volts, in fact, the spark won't even jump through open air. The automotive coil only works if you have a condenser. Anyway I don't know if this is what Meyer used.

So I pulsed 20kv back EMF into a bifilar coil with an air core. I pulsed the car coil with 12 volts, 25 hz. I put a 1000v block diode on the positive post of the coil. I used two spoons for the electrodes. Well it made hydrogen. I got a small step charge effect using 50% duty cycle. Some curious things are that the step charge looked backwards on the scope, it seemed to start high and then go down?

Anyway:

I destroyed my computer sound card. I was feeding a car audio amplifier, and from the car amplifer I was feeding an automotive spark module. I have done it a lot without failure, but this time I accidentally took one of the wires off and I got 20,000 volts that had nowhere to go, so it jumped to speaker wire feeding my car amplifier, which then in turn went back into my sound card. I am lucky my computer even works. My sound card barely plays music, it is muddled with static.

I also burned up my Oscilliscope because when the wires came loose, the voltage jumped to one of the wires on the scope.

So I lost my computer sound card, and my $200 scope. I learned the hard way so you guys don't have to. I am new to electronics, and I should have known better. My only advice.... DO NOT use alligator clips with 20,000 volts!!!!!!! Solder all the wires and make sure they are PERMANENT... A loose wire with 20KV is NOT safe! ha ha  :o


fritz

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2008, 06:29:12 PM »
..... there is an ignition coil on my bench.....
but I stopped experimenting after I had some accident .....
- only dead scope probe -

There are nice HV probes from 500-1000 bucks...... but
thats too much now.

Will hook up the ignition coil - my setup´s better now - and will use
some almost-dead scope.

Reverse step charge effect ?
If you used a pulse train - than the frequency was too high....
If the coil has not enough time to releas all energy on a pulse -
the next charging happens on top of the old flux - means that
the flux variation is smaller than possible - every consecutive
pulse charges with less energy until the coil is saturated.
Only the first pulse reaches maximum energy.
(remote analysis)


rgds.

kinesisfilms

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2008, 07:55:30 PM »
I had the idea of using a 20-35kv car coil for the step up transformer. On a car ignition the spark is created via back EMF. The spark its self is actually only back EMF. If you put AC voltage or DC voltage into the coil, the back EMF spike is not created in the secondary coil and you don't get anything close to 20,000 volts, in fact, the spark won't even jump through open air. The automotive coil only works if you have a condenser. Anyway I don't know if this is what Meyer used.

So I pulsed 20kv back EMF into a bifilar coil with an air core. I pulsed the car coil with 12 volts, 25 hz. I put a 1000v block diode on the positive post of the coil. I used two spoons for the electrodes. Well it made hydrogen. I got a small step charge effect using 50% duty cycle. Some curious things are that the step charge looked backwards on the scope, it seemed to start high and then go down?

Anyway:

I destroyed my computer sound card. I was feeding a car audio amplifier, and from the car amplifer I was feeding an automotive spark module. I have done it a lot without failure, but this time I accidentally took one of the wires off and I got 20,000 volts that had nowhere to go, so it jumped to speaker wire feeding my car amplifier, which then in turn went back into my sound card. I am lucky my computer even works. My sound card barely plays music, it is muddled with static.

I also burned up my Oscilliscope because when the wires came loose, the voltage jumped to one of the wires on the scope.

So I lost my computer sound card, and my $200 scope. I learned the hard way so you guys don't have to. I am new to electronics, and I should have known better. My only advice.... DO NOT use alligator clips with 20,000 volts!!!!!!! Solder all the wires and make sure they are PERMANENT... A loose wire with 20KV is NOT safe! ha ha  :o



your not step charging! when i first started this happened to me.....if you want to see what step charging is just take that 50 percent duty cycle and run it through a bridge recitifier to get a full wave rectified signal....then look at your oscope.....you will have the correct wave form.....do this so you can understand step charging......

fritz

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2008, 11:59:32 AM »
Hehe....

Hooked up an ignition coil to my pulser setup, pulsed wtih 40Volts
and got _N I C E_ 5cm sparks -> thats around _50kV_.
After 10 seconds - something died - hopefully only a spontaneous
flash corruption in my controller - but anyway 5cm sparks is
quite impressing...

rgds.

alan

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2008, 02:00:22 PM »
Hehe....

Hooked up an ignition coil to my pulser setup, pulsed wtih 40Volts
and got _N I C E_ 5cm sparks -> thats around _50kV_.
After 10 seconds - something died - hopefully only a spontaneous
flash corruption in my controller - but anyway 5cm sparks is
quite impressing...

rgds.
Cool, that is what I suggested before.

Show us your schematics, maybe we can figure out why it dies.

alan

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2008, 03:18:45 PM »
I found this, just wanted to share to see if it has any value. Apparently the concept is from 1913.

(http://www.h2ofuelkits.com/images/Self_Powering_WFC_Resonator.gif)


Great, managed to find the original patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=nzdNAAAAEBAJ

supermuble

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2008, 01:10:46 AM »
Ok so I was not step charging. But what does this mean?

full wave rectified signal?

That must just be pulsed DC? That is what I had, exactly what I had.

HeairBear

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2008, 01:43:26 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

That link should help you understand the differences between AC, half-wave DC, and full-wave DC. A battery is considered a flat DC. In the Stan Meyer case, he was using half-wave DC to step charge the chokes. Chokes can be used as LC circuits in themselves due to the distributed capacitance and inductance of the coil. I don't think flat DC can step charge anything since there are no changes in voltage or current which is needed for reactance of components such as capacitors and inductors.

http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html

That link may give insight to how step charging can be accomplished with similar circuits. Is this the info you are looking for?

supermuble

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2008, 08:47:50 AM »
A bridge rectifier just takes the AC current from both poles of a magnetic field and shoves them together at different times to create DC voltage.

kinesisfilms, I am not sure what you are talking about? I could not rectify 50% duty cycle when it is clipped DC. The on time for my coil was only a few ms (2.0 to 10 ms) assuming that I have no built in dwell control in the spark module, which I don't. I am using a battery with a transistor operated spark module. The module is triggered by AC voltage, but none of that AC voltage ever goes near the primary of the ignition coil. The primary power from the coil can either be on, or off. It cannot be rectified.   ;D

HeairBear

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2008, 09:43:36 AM »
Oh... My fucking GOD!  Read a fucking book and learn something!

HeairBear

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2008, 10:40:35 AM »
I'm sorry Muble... I didn't mean to act that way.... Pleas accept my apology.

supermuble

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2008, 04:26:51 PM »
Instead of being rude, why not spend 10 seconds explaining something to me. Isn't that why we are here, to help each other?

Apparently you find it easier to insult people, rather than stepping up to the plate to help them.





supermuble

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2008, 04:32:36 PM »
I am just trying to tell you how I understand things. When I am totally wrong, please let me know.

I am willing to learn!

I have never once hooked up a bridge rectifier, or hooked a scope up to one. I am simply "assuming" that they convert AC to DC because that is what people use them for, they are used on all motorcycles and boats, and other devices that I have worked on .A boat motor has a stator, which is just magnets flying around some coils of wire, producing up to 400 volts AC, which is rectified into DC and regulated to charge the battery. And if you look at a circuit diagram for an alternator, each pole of the winding (north and south) produces current when the rotor goes by the poles. Each of the poles is hooked to the bridge rectifier and the current can only flow in one direction through it, forming DC. Why is this wrong?

I did not know you could rectify pulsed DC, because I thought pulsed DC didn't need to be rectified, that's all.



HeairBear

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2008, 05:17:56 PM »
AC rectified = DC...

crazyenergy

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Re: My first WFC/VIC
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2008, 05:59:16 PM »
AC rectified = DC...


OK but Supermuble's point; pulsed DC rectified = pulsed DC. No?