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Author Topic: new tri-gate configuration  (Read 13923 times)

Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2008, 10:38:53 PM »
Hi gwhy!

I think your idea is better than using shields.. check out the thread posted above for my latest graphic.. I think this will work!

Jason

Hi Tesla,
     The trouble with the tri-gate is when you try and make it a loop with gaps is the the gap becomes very hard to jump once you place the array more than 180 degrees around the rotor, I did try and set it up with 3 rotors on a common shaft but this was still a no go, you can get it very close but there is never not quite enough power to push it through the gaps. I didn't try anything with shielding because I couldn't see how it would benefit the setup. it is very easy to test: make 3 sets of gates and place them equally in a straight line ( so the gap is exactly the same between them about the same length as one of the tri-gate sets) place the roller mag at the first gate I think you will find the roller exits the first gate and just enters the next gate but don't quite enter the third gate so you then move the third gate closer which then works but if you add another set of tri-gates this needs to be closer again for the roller to enter and so on. It is really frustrating...  >:( . The Idea of the graphic I have show is that there is no gate entrance repulsion so no loss going into each array which is what makes the setup you have shown fail. Hope this makes sense I'm not the best in the world at explaining things  ::)  If I get chance I will try and demo it in a vid.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2008, 10:38:53 PM »

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2008, 10:49:19 PM »
Do you have any ideas on how to modify my last graphic to make it work?  Love to see more video!

Thanks,
Jason

Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2008, 11:10:03 PM »
Do you have any ideas on how to modify my last graphic to make it work?  Love to see more video!

Thanks,
Jason

Hi Tesla,
   The only possible way that I can see it working is to try and remove the repulsion area at the entrance to the gate but still keeping the kick out from the gate. This is what I am working on at the mo. There are some ideas in one of the other vids I put up onto youtube http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pnMSSz7W8YU these are not my vids but do show lots of configs for the tri-gate.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2008, 11:10:03 PM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2008, 11:45:05 PM »
Thanks for the video link!

Jason

Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2008, 01:36:55 AM »
Do you have any ideas on how to modify my last graphic to make it work?  Love to see more video!

Thanks,
Jason

Hi Jason,
  Short vid to try and show you what I mean about the gap.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8qToXhJOxNQ&feature=user

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2008, 01:36:55 AM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2008, 02:35:55 AM »
Thank you!  Great demo.

Jason

Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2008, 01:34:55 AM »
There is a place within a tri-gate array that has no wall at all and still you get a kick out of it.

Video uploaded:
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7bRoYzANNZM

Now this for me is very exciting as it may fit in perfectly with one of the designs I'm playing with at the moment  ;) .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2008, 01:34:55 AM »
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Offline Rusty_Springs

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2008, 01:57:15 AM »
Hi Gwhy
Here is a drawing of the new gate I was talking about.
Take Care Gway
Graham

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2008, 04:16:10 AM »
Thanks!.. I'll have to get some horse shoe magnets.

Jason

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2008, 04:16:10 AM »
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Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2008, 11:24:26 AM »
Hi Gwhy
Here is a drawing of the new gate I was talking about.
Take Care Gway
Graham


Thanks Rusty,
   I will try and get some larger horseshoe mags to play with.

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2008, 04:17:10 PM »
@ gwhy

You MIGHT be able to fudge on the horseshoe mags with hard drive mags.

I've had this idea for a while (and it seems Rusty has too, 'cept he's using HS mags ;) ) as it's harder to come by horseshoe mags these days.
 (I  _think_  I've seen  _1_ vendor offering horseshoe neos [supermagnetman.net who gives better volume discounts than magnets4less, but I haven't researched the shipping differences].)

From the ones I have here it seems the polarity has a unique arrangement as the sides of the mag are the opposite polarity of that on the face e.g.:

         TOP  (FLAT)                              SIDE (EDGE)

        XXXX          N                            X        S
          XXXX        N                            X        S
             XXXX     N                            X        S
               XXXX    -                            X         -
               XXXX    -                            X         -
              XXXX     S                           X         N
           XXXX        S                           X         N
         XXXX          S                           X         N

....although, I have found a few that seem to be.......

         TOP  (FLAT)                              SIDE (EDGE)

        XXXX          N                           X        S
          XXXX        n                            X        S
             XXXX     s                            X        S
               XXXX   S                            X        -
               XXXX   S                            X        -
              XXXX    s                             X       N
           XXXX       n                             X       N
         XXXX         N                            X        N

Which is really confusing as I'm used to mags having diametrically opposed polarities.
So maybe stacked HD mags to get a greater area edge effect ?

This is not something that'll be that easy as the epoxy used to hold the HD mags to the metal backing for mounting in the HD is not that easy to break.

I've found (this has worked for me with 80/20% success rate) that you can use a guitar string (G (unwound), B, or high E) as a rope saw if you can get it between the metal mount and the mag to defeat the epoxy.

A question I have about your trigate/MkE-oneway marriage is, does the MkE have to have such sharp right angles?
Could a slope (before the crucial 2/3's point of the MkE) marry the MkE field to the trigate field and allow each (MkE slope) start to have the acceleration effect restart at each MkE beginning to negate the "wall"?

Have you set up multiple arrangements of these end to end to see if that is possible and you can create a loop without turning the arrays into a large multi-piece ring mag?

Like this:

T = trigate
M = MkE

                                                                                <-------------<------------<----------<----------

T  T  T  T       MMMMM      T  T  T  T       MMMMM       T  T  T  T       MMMMM       T  T  T  T      MMMM
                M                                     M                                      M                                     M
        M M                                 M  M                                  M  M                                M  M

........so instead of the MkE array being formed thus:

                                                             __________
                                                             -
                                                             -
                                                             -
                                            __________

.......it is formed like this?

                                                             ___________
                                                          -
                                                       -
                                                   -
                                  ________

That way it is covering the same area, but the 1/2 way point is still (marginally) allowing the roller into the trigate with its accumulated acceleration?

Just questions and wool-gathering dude. ;)

I do have to give you major kudos, as in another thread we've both participated in, array use seems chained to 2D thinking, whereas you've broken out of that mold and started thinking 3D which seems to be (the more I play with this stuff) the best way to think about array usage.

I'll be posting more of my recent failures over there shortly, and invite you to take a look as my failure MIGHT show you something it didn't show me and lead to your success.

;D 

P.S.   I just (finally) watched the vid you posted and I was wondering had you tried the roller without the BBs on the end yet?
Was the behavior any different?
Have you considered slotting a piece of plexi or other plastic to allow it to be sloped or form the MkE more uniformly?
What happens when you have the MkE formed as you do, but there is no receiving trigate on the end?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2008, 04:17:10 PM »
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Offline X00013

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2008, 06:05:31 PM »

Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2008, 06:41:23 PM »
@ gwhy

You MIGHT be able to fudge on the horseshoe mags with hard drive mags.

I've had this idea for a while (and it seems Rusty has too, 'cept he's using HS mags ;) ) as it's harder to come by horseshoe mags these days.
 (I  _think_  I've seen  _1_ vendor offering horseshoe neos [supermagnetman.net who gives better volume discounts than magnets4less, but I haven't researched the shipping differences].)

From the ones I have here it seems the polarity has a unique arrangement as the sides of the mag are the opposite polarity of that on the face e.g.:

         TOP  (FLAT)                              SIDE (EDGE)

        XXXX          N                            X        S
          XXXX        N                            X        S
             XXXX     N                            X        S
               XXXX    -                            X         -
               XXXX    -                            X         -
              XXXX     S                           X         N
           XXXX        S                           X         N
         XXXX          S                           X         N

....although, I have found a few that seem to be.......

         TOP  (FLAT)                              SIDE (EDGE)

        XXXX          N                           X        S
          XXXX        n                            X        S
             XXXX     s                            X        S
               XXXX   S                            X        -
               XXXX   S                            X        -
              XXXX    s                             X       N
           XXXX       n                             X       N
         XXXX         N                            X        N

Which is really confusing as I'm used to mags having diametrically opposed polarities.
So maybe stacked HD mags to get a greater area edge effect ?

This is not something that'll be that easy as the epoxy used to hold the HD mags to the metal backing for mounting in the HD is not that easy to break.

I've found (this has worked for me with 80/20% success rate) that you can use a guitar string (G (unwound), B, or high E) as a rope saw if you can get it between the metal mount and the mag to defeat the epoxy.

A question I have about your trigate/MkE-oneway marriage is, does the MkE have to have such sharp right angles?
Could a slope (before the crucial 2/3's point of the MkE) marry the MkE field to the trigate field and allow each (MkE slope) start to have the acceleration effect restart at each MkE beginning to negate the "wall"?

Have you set up multiple arrangements of these end to end to see if that is possible and you can create a loop without turning the arrays into a large multi-piece ring mag?

Like this:

T = trigate
M = MkE

                                                                                <-------------<------------<----------<----------

T  T  T  T       MMMMM      T  T  T  T       MMMMM       T  T  T  T       MMMMM       T  T  T  T      MMMM
                M                                     M                                      M                                     M
        M M                                 M  M                                  M  M                                M  M

........so instead of the MkE array being formed thus:

                                                             __________
                                                             -
                                                             -
                                                             -
                                            __________

.......it is formed like this?

                                                             ___________
                                                          -
                                                       -
                                                   -
                                  ________

That way it is covering the same area, but the 1/2 way point is still (marginally) allowing the roller into the trigate with its accumulated acceleration?

Just questions and wool-gathering dude. ;)

I do have to give you major kudos, as in another thread we've both participated in, array use seems chained to 2D thinking, whereas you've broken out of that mold and started thinking 3D which seems to be (the more I play with this stuff) the best way to think about array usage.

I'll be posting more of my recent failures over there shortly, and invite you to take a look as my failure MIGHT show you something it didn't show me and lead to your success.

;D 

P.S.   I just (finally) watched the vid you posted and I was wondering had you tried the roller without the BBs on the end yet?
Was the behavior any different?
Have you considered slotting a piece of plexi or other plastic to allow it to be sloped or form the MkE more uniformly?
What happens when you have the MkE formed as you do, but there is no receiving trigate on the end?


 Thanks Exx for the heads up about HDD mags ( I got boat loads of them ) I will have ago at getting some of them off the metal they are stuck to.

The step in the MkE array can be sloped and should not be a problem the important thing I have noticed is the distance under the trigate needs to be right to get maximum efficiency i.e to small and the roller will not continue into the trigates to big a gap then roller refuses to even enter the first trigate.
I haven't setup multiple arrangements of these end to end as of yet but well worth having ago ( I'm not sure how well the end of a trigate array will marry into the start of a MkE array ) because as you have seen in one of my vids the roller do not get thrown clear of the pull back from the tri-gate array when rolling along a level plain ( its close, but not close enough. maybe a bit more tweeking ) so the fields would have to overlap. I have sort of been side tracked with the seasaw effect I shown in my last vid that will over come this problem of overlapping fields.

The BB's are mainly there to give the roller mag a big more weight and stop it flipping around so easily, but they do also help a little when going through the tri-gate array.
If you make the MkE array to much of a gentel slope there isn't enough momentum to break though the magnet that is connecting ( shorting )the first two trigates together.

If you have no receiving tri-gate the MkE act just like it would normally i.e the roller will go backwards and forwards over the array until it stops in the middle part of the array that is closest to the roller ( if you know what I mean ).

I will look forward to seeing any vids that show anything intresting positive or negative cos its all good and something that peeps can learn from.

Cheers. 

Offline gwhy!

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2008, 10:28:06 PM »
@all
   Just had another play with what I call the Kgate. I didn't vid anything dint think there was much point at the mo but some info for exx and anyone else thats intrested:

On a level plain the roller do not quite get thrown clear of the last tri-gate as I said before ( its very close ) but what I did do was to put another MkE array about the same length as the tri-gate array away from the  the last tgate and with very carefull placement ( distance ) the roller could be pulled free of the last tgate and into the MkE array  ;D . Some may say so what, but the cool thing was if you placed the roller at the very point it starts to get pulled into the MkE array and then remove the MkE array the roller do not get pulled back into the tgate Which may mean that there is something going on with the interacting fields ( on a positive side  ??? ). I need to get hold of a longer piece of plexi so I can see ( hope  ??? ) that 3 sets of Kgates will make the roller accelerate, that will be a step in the right direction.

P.S    just putting another tri-gate array at the end of the Kgate at the same distance was a non-starter the roller didn't get anywhere near the entrance to the second tri-gate array

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: new tri-gate configuration
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2008, 10:57:27 PM »
@all
   Just had another play with what I call the Kgate. I didn't vid anything dint think there was much point at the mo but some info for exx and anyone else thats intrested:

On a level plain the roller do not quite get thrown clear of the last tri-gate as I said before ( its very close ) but what I did do was to put another MkE array about the same length as the tri-gate array away from the  the last tgate and with very carefull placement ( distance ) the roller could be pulled free of the last tgate and into the MkE array  ;D . Some may say so what, but the cool thing was if you placed the roller at the very point it starts to get pulled into the MkE array and then remove the MkE array the roller do not get pulled back into the tgate Which may mean that there is something going on with the interacting fields ( on a positive side  ??? ). I need to get hold of a longer piece of plexi so I can see ( hope  ??? ) that 3 sets of Kgates will make the roller accelerate, that will be a step in the right direction.

P.S    just putting another tri-gate array at the end of the Kgate at the same distance was a non-starter the roller didn't get anywhere near the entrance to the second tri-gate array

I like to see video when you have a chance.

Thanks,
Jason

 

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