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Author Topic: Very Testable Claim from Kedron  (Read 6168 times)

Mr.Entropy

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Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« on: November 10, 2007, 05:55:39 AM »
This enormous powerpoint (6.5M) from a company called Kedron describes a very reproducible experiment, and documents measured results that, if verified, would prove that essentially free energy can be extracted from permanent magnets:

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/Kedron/Kedron_EDEN_Project.ppt

It's the kind of disclosure we've always wanted from Streorn.

Has anyone tried it?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

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Omnibus

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 06:17:15 AM »
Quote from: Mr.Entropy on November 10, 2007, 05:55:39 AM
This enormous powerpoint (6.5M) from a company called Kedron describes a very reproducible experiment, and documents measured results that, if verified, would prove that essentially free energy can be extracted from permanent magnets:

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/Kedron/Kedron_EDEN_Project.ppt

It's the kind of disclosure we've always wanted from Streorn.

Has anyone tried it?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy


So, where is the working motor with instructions to have independent third parties reproduce it? Except for quasi-scientific blabber from a physiologist one sees nothing but a completely useless document clogging the net. And what does this have to do with Steorn?
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tinu

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 11:23:26 AM »
Quote from: Mr.Entropy on November 10, 2007, 05:55:39 AM
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/Kedron/Kedron_EDEN_Project.ppt

Work is interesting, no doubt about it.

However, so many graphs and data about the horizontally work in close proximity and not a single mention about the work required to horizontally move the magnets at some distance. After all, the magnets move on a closed loop, aren?t they? I?d be glad to be wrong but I suppose the author just neglected to measure the work needed to close the loop.

Opinions?

Quote from: Mr.Entropy on November 10, 2007, 05:55:39 AM
Has anyone tried it?

I haven?t tried it as presented in the file. It requires a lot of patience and I doubt the forces and work can be very accurately measured, due to the large interval the magnitude of forces varies.

What I?ve tried was to force two magnets oscillate on various paths: one on a circle and the other on a line (along the radius). Assuming that the radius of the circle is large enough so the path can be approximate to be linear in the area of interest, the device was relatively simple to test. Imagine one ?a la Bedini?, but with movable stator magnet. But I?ve never seen OU. Now the setup is dismantled. However, if chances for success, I?ll rebuild it.

Tinu
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:23:12 PM by tinu »
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ken_nyus

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 05:10:19 PM »
Also see the patent mentioned in this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3327.0.html

They use repulsion, but they show 1 Joule in, getting 4 Joules out.
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Omnibus

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 05:22:33 PM »
Quote from: ken_nyus on November 10, 2007, 05:10:19 PM
Also see the patent mentioned in this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3327.0.html

They use repulsion, but they show 1 Joule in, getting 4 Joules out.
Again, where's the working model, where are the replications by independent parties? Nowhere to be found, correct? A patent doesn't mean a thing. There are much more interesting perpetuum mobile patents (cf. Frank Fecera's) which have never been shown to protect anything workable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you. You're just reporting what there is available and that's commendable. What is to be criticized is Uncle Sam's approach who should clarify this problem--either ask the patentees to demonstrate what they claim (which also means that Science as we know it should change if these demonstrations are successful) or else revoke these phony patents.
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Mr.Entropy

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2007, 06:14:23 PM »
Quote from: tinu on November 10, 2007, 11:23:26 AM
However, so many graphs and data about the horizontally work in close proximity and not a single mention about the work required to horizontally move the magnets at some distance. After all, the magnets move on a closed loop, aren?t they? I?d be glad to be wrong but I suppose the author just neglected to measure the work needed to close the loop.

They measured force vs. distance from "far away" to the zero position, using face-on and sliding motions.  The work was calculated in both cases as the area under these curves, and they found that it was different for the different paths.

It is true that to "close the loop", you'd also have to move from one far away position to another, or reorient the magnets while they were far away, or something like that, but it doesn't really matter.  You can see from the measurement that the magnetic forces when the magnets are far away are negligible, so there's no significant cost to moving the magnets around however you like at that distance.

Quote
I haven?t tried it as presented in the file. It requires a lot of patience and I doubt the forces and work can be very accurately measured, due to the large interval the magnitude of forces varies.

I think I've figured out a simple setup, moving the magnets vertically and using threaded brass rod for accurate positioning and a digital scale to measure the forces.  I think I'll look around today for a digital scale, and I'll actually do the experiment if I can get one for not too much cash.

If not, I'll try to work out some way to measure the work directly by measuring the height of a pendulum swing.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
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Omnibus

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 06:19:49 PM »
Quote from: Mr.Entropy on November 10, 2007, 06:14:23 PM
Quote from: tinu on November 10, 2007, 11:23:26 AM
However, so many graphs and data about the horizontally work in close proximity and not a single mention about the work required to horizontally move the magnets at some distance. After all, the magnets move on a closed loop, aren?t they? I?d be glad to be wrong but I suppose the author just neglected to measure the work needed to close the loop.

They measured force vs. distance from "far away" to the zero position, using face-on and sliding motions.  The work was calculated in both cases as the area under these curves, and they found that it was different for the different paths.

It is true that to "close the loop", you'd also have to move from one far away position to another, or reorient the magnets while they were far away, or something like that, but it doesn't really matter.  You can see from the measurement that the magnetic forces when the magnets are far away are negligible, so there's no significant cost to moving the magnets around however you like at that distance.

Quote
I haven?t tried it as presented in the file. It requires a lot of patience and I doubt the forces and work can be very accurately measured, due to the large interval the magnitude of forces varies.

I think I've figured out a simple setup, moving the magnets vertically and using threaded brass rod for accurate positioning and a digital scale to measure the forces.  I think I'll look around today for a digital scale, and I'll actually do the experiment if I can get one for not too much cash.

If not, I'll try to work out some way to measure the work directly by measuring the height of a pendulum swing.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

That's trivial. What should be done is implement that trivial stuff into a working model producing excess energy, that is energy out of nothing, continuously (discontinuous production of excess energy has already been proven beyond doubt). The closest so far, except for Finsrud's maybe, is @xpenzif's contraption. It should be the focus.
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Mr.Entropy

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Re: Very Testable Claim from Kedron
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 06:21:07 PM »
Quote from: ken_nyus on November 10, 2007, 05:10:19 PM
Also see the patent mentioned in this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3327.0.html

They use repulsion, but they show 1 Joule in, getting 4 Joules out.

It's interesting that their claims are symmetrical -- that patent relies on the sliding path being easier with the magnets in repulsion, while Kedron relies on the sliding path being more difficult with the magnets in attraction.

Mr. Entropy
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