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Author Topic: Electric Wind Recoil Generator  (Read 3399 times)

Zhang Yalin

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Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« on: March 31, 2023, 08:01:17 AM »
Electric Wind Recoil Generator


A generator is installed in the center of the large wind wheel. Then, 10 small fans are evenly installed on the edge of the large wind wheel and driven by 10 small motors respectively, and the fans (north-south direction) rotate perpendicular to the direction of the large wind wheel (east-west direction). The recoil of the wind blown by the small fan drives the big wind wheel to rotate.
According to the law of energy conservation, the kinetic energy of the fan is equal to its recoil energy and also equal to the electric energy generated by the generator.
The fan only needs to overcome a small part (about 20%) of the energy consumed by rolling friction resistance and air friction resistance to maintain rotation.
(only a very small part of the energy is consumed by friction resistance, and it will be wasted without installing a generator).
The resistance of the large wind wheel (generator) does not act on the fan, but only acts on the recoil force of the fan. The kinetic energy of the electric fan is not consumed by the generator, as if no generator is installed. In this special case (the resistance does not act on the power, but acts on the recoil force of the power), the sum (100%) of the power consumption of 10 small motors is equal to the total recoil energy (about 80%) plus the energy consumption of frictional resistance ( about 20%). The sum of the recoil energy is equal to the sum of the generating capacity of the generator. The power generation is 4 times the power consumption, successfully breaking the law of energy conservation.

Cloxxki

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2023, 02:31:07 PM »
Do you have a sketch, please?

Someone build a radio controlled copter with little propellers on the ends of the two or three main blades, place at 90º to "drive" the main blades. The energy needed to sustain hover was said to be considerable less than for a similar craft with only blades in the horizontal plane. A bunch of videos on YouTube but I can't remember the account name or any keywords.

kolbacict

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2023, 04:39:47 PM »

Someone build a radio controlled copter with little propellers on the ends of the two or three main blades, place at 90º to "drive" the main blades.
Yes! In the ends of these small propellers to place even smaller motors with smaller propellers.
And at the ends of these even smaller ones. It'll be cool! It's like fractals. :D

Zhang Yalin

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2023, 03:10:36 AM »
Would anyone please draw a sketch for me? Thank you in advance!

aussiebattler

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2023, 05:51:22 AM »
Do you have a sketch, please?

Someone build a radio controlled copter with little propellers on the ends of the two or three main blades, place at 90º to "drive" the main blades. The energy needed to sustain hover was said to be considerable less than for a similar craft with only blades in the horizontal plane. A bunch of videos on YouTube but I can't remember the account name or any keywords.
Can you buy a device that simulates the control of the blade angle as it rotates?
ab

kolbacict

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2023, 08:52:00 AM »
Would anyone please draw a sketch for me? Thank you in advance!
Something like this. Only instead of fingers, airscrew. :)
   

 ...

sm0ky2

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2023, 08:52:31 AM »
Like rudders but for propellers
to control the torque
I love it


Cauliflower turbines
heres the problem i see:


Theres a speed of rotation where the backwards velocity of the smaller blades
matches the windspeed they produce
meaning no more air to flow through them
So the generator would have to be kept below this speed


Also this weird torque occurs (mathematically) in the other axis
so it will need like one of those little helicopter tail blades somewhere to counter that

Zhang Yalin

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2023, 07:52:11 AM »
I'm afraid you guys are not quite with me. Hi

Zhang Yalin

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2023, 08:07:04 AM »
Let me make my idea more understandable.
The design is like an electric bicycle that does not have an electric motor, but is driven by the recoil of an electric fan mounted on the luggage rack behind the rider.

sm0ky2

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2023, 11:55:53 AM »
Let me make my idea more understandable.
The design is like an electric bicycle that does not have an electric motor, but is driven by the recoil of an electric fan mounted on the luggage rack behind the rider.


When the windspeed (against the direction of motion) reaches the speed of the air being pushed through the fan: no further air can be pushed through the fan.
This is not a function of design, but an operational condition of the fan itself.


Do a search for ‘wind powered car that drives itself upwind’
you will find that in order to do this you mist gear the wheels to a higher ratio than the fan.
The reason behind this is exactly the same but in the opposite direction.


This is how fans work, and one of the reasons wind turbines have to be turned off above a certain wind speed. Not only is it dangerous, but the generator cannot operate under these conditions.
Sure the fan will turn
But the speed of the wind is the same in front of the fan as it is behind it. So torque, pushing power, pulling power, all scale off once the condition is broken.


This is not a problem, as long as that condition is handled.


As for the axial torque (considered ‘roll’ in the forward (x) vector) is still present if you mount the fan to the rack instead of the tire. This removes most of the gyro torque, but unless the fan is completely horizontal, there is still an upward torque placed upon the rear of the bicycle.
Enough to lift your tail off the ground? Probably not, but definitely must be considered on something like a drone or aircraft. And in the case when the fan IS horizontal: gyro torque appears on the axis of rotation of the fan. Counter rotating fans could be used to cancel this out.


With fins placed on the tire such that the fan actually spins the tire (rather than simply pushing the bike with a fan): direction of rotation of the tire means the fan is facing forwards. (Assuming that is the direction you wish to move in)
In this scenario you are directly fighting the wind as in the example at the top.
And again here, once the windspeed reaches the output speed of the fan, it stops providing forward acceleration. Also heavy losses appear from wind currents that are not dissipated hitting the fins.


The idea of driving the wheel from a fan on it’s’ rotating peripheral is probably the best of these scenarios, notice how the direction of rotation of the wheel is complementary to the direction of force applied by the fan.
however the system constraints must still be considered.














Paul-R

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2023, 12:38:35 PM »
Why do you imagine such a device would be OU?

sm0ky2

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2023, 02:34:54 PM »
Why do you imagine such a device would be OU?


The mathematics involved are the inverse of jet nozzle physics,
Which are not bound by closed-system constraints.


Leaving a possibility for exploration.

Paul-R

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2023, 12:09:32 AM »

Do a search for ‘wind powered car that drives itself upwind’

We should remember that, in a sailing boat, one can be pushed into the wind.

sm0ky2

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2023, 01:57:33 AM »
We should remember that, in a sailing boat, one can be pushed into the wind.


Yes and its’ the same range of angles. The sail acts as a single propeller blade or wing of an aircraft

Zhang Yalin

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Re: Electric Wind Recoil Generator
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2023, 03:16:26 AM »
You can easily understand by replacing the fan with a jet.